So this is my interpretation of the strategy. Maybe next time if I do a video like this I will try to get the other person for joint commentary. Was in a little bit of a hurry here.
With such a new and currently overpowered unit per the meta (there doesn’t appear to be a hard counter) it is valuable to get these videos out as quickly as possible before a nerf. And frankly the devs need all the pressure to nerf a unit when it is this universally dominant too.
@@1337billybob next patch (this week) the chain will no longer connect to towers or between air and ground units. Curious to see how much that affects things, maybe it's enough
@@1337billybob But there are soft counters, the problem is that people for some reason aren't taking Raiden seriously and build units that can kill it.
I ran this after watching the stream, won 6 out of 7 games, and I probably lost the 7th game by making mistakes and even then it was fairly close... I feel dirty.
Increase the interval makes more sense to me, but I realized that when you upgrade it too much on multi target it makes not enough damage anymore to kill healthy targets. So maybe the hardcounter is Wasps with shields. But idk.
21:00 thats a perfect example of skill. Instead of giving the level up to the Raiden preemptively (like most of us would) he calculates the Raiden to level in combat and gets double level afterwards.
I feel like, especially with Fangs as chaff and Raiden so close on the line, the opponent could properly position AA + EMP Marksmen against this, maybe? In the goldylocks-zone where the Raiden is in the AA extended range and the Fangs are not in range and too slow to steal aggro? I dunno.
I think the "chain" tech needs a damage cap, if the raiden hit's for 24k, then the 24k is split between the initial target taking all 24k if it's got the hp, if not the damage chains onto the next target for the remaining damage.
@@aiugiamos3057 That could be interesting - splitting its damage the more it splits, but perhaps dealing a little more if there is only a single target? Plus the fork only working if it overkilled the initial target - that could allow for some counterplay. Aside from perhaps a lightning rod tech, similar to the anti-missile techs, though I fear that may be overkill.
how can quick supply specialist be so obvious given the choices? E.g. is 200 worth more than a 17% hp boost or whatever that number is on fortified specialist? Seems like in later rounds especially it should return more value than 200? Or what am i not seeing?
I don't like the unit design at all since it basically does everything. Its hard to balance. It's going to be totally useless or totally broken very often. Every time they change something else, it affects this unit also.
have you noticed raidens behave differently with mobile beacons !! the unit keeps moving, but I don;t know if thats exploitable with some niche strategy
Tbh I think the only balancing needed is to make the 3 primary techs more expensive, chain in particular, to make an early transition into carry raiden a bit more difficult
In every game you had max 4 raidens in round 6. In the first game only two actually at round 6. SO much for: only build arclights, fangs and some raidens. Bad summary of the "whole" strategy.
Scurry, hear me out. What if Raiden was only air to ground and couldn't shoot up? Do you think that would make it more interesting and more counterable?
Yeah even with nerf the raiden is just too annoying. Since the season started I've played 17 games and every. single. one. has been raiden. Which is to be expected of new units but they're simply too easy to win with. Even beginning the game considering them and building a board to counter them, it's still a problem when they come down. I like the idea of the unit but I don't know if the execution is well done tbh.
Raiden was such a mistake. It's a shame, I really enjoy this game but until Raiden takes harder hits or possibly a rework of sorts I might need to take a break lol.
@@ianrobinson7740 I'm not so sure, I have only lost to it twise, once because I stepped out of my comfort zone and tried to force a ball/wraith push (when there was a raiden in the first unit dropp), and once because I tried to tempo play rather then build a solid board (got opponent down to 81hp, then I died like an idiot in two rounds 😀)
@@simontollin2004 What were some of the board states that you won against it? Personally as soon as they came out on the other side (post turn 5 so lots of supply available) it instantly swings in their favor and I can't recover.
@Schmoovin_groovin but you need range and probably chain to actually reach HV targets like factories. After all, you always need to protect them from melters, so why would you choose ionize raiden? You even lock yourself out of a proper DPS raiden
I wonder if the Raiden will have a perfectly balanced 50% win rate because every player uses it every game.
"I want dumb arcs, don't want them getting any ideas about leveling up" loool, why do I find this so funny
So this is my interpretation of the strategy. Maybe next time if I do a video like this I will try to get the other person for joint commentary. Was in a little bit of a hurry here.
With such a new and currently overpowered unit per the meta (there doesn’t appear to be a hard counter) it is valuable to get these videos out as quickly as possible before a nerf. And frankly the devs need all the pressure to nerf a unit when it is this universally dominant too.
@@1337billybob next patch (this week) the chain will no longer connect to towers or between air and ground units. Curious to see how much that affects things, maybe it's enough
@@1337billybob But there are soft counters, the problem is that people for some reason aren't taking Raiden seriously and build units that can kill it.
I ran this after watching the stream, won 6 out of 7 games, and I probably lost the 7th game by making mistakes and even then it was fairly close... I feel dirty.
Every time you say "only fangs" all i can think of is that arbiter found a new streaming platform
Stealing this for my Blade fanfic thx 😂
like a true rat, spreading the plague xdd
This looks a little bit like times when wraiths were introduced and they did everything and you could just spam them and add some chaff.
Think I'll play survival mode for now.
fair enough
4 player Brawl is really fun
Raiden need range decrease so pheonix can shoot it without dying or increase interval before each shot by 1 second.
Increase the interval makes more sense to me, but I realized that when you upgrade it too much on multi target it makes not enough damage anymore to kill healthy targets.
So maybe the hardcounter is Wasps with shields. But idk.
Thanks for the upload rat
The raiden should be " ground only" . Its way too strong .
This is the way
Funny how you are so used to using both Fangs and Crawlers that you do it by reflex despite planing to use Fangs.
Fang arclight into raiden carry every game, amazing
21:00 thats a perfect example of skill. Instead of giving the level up to the Raiden preemptively (like most of us would) he calculates the Raiden to level in combat and gets double level afterwards.
Thanks for putting this together for us to learn from! I’m down for cheese builds 😂😂
This unit is flat out broken good in every situation, i have no idea how they could balance it. It will either suck or be op.
I feel like, especially with Fangs as chaff and Raiden so close on the line, the opponent could properly position AA + EMP Marksmen against this, maybe? In the goldylocks-zone where the Raiden is in the AA extended range and the Fangs are not in range and too slow to steal aggro? I dunno.
Problem is that chain tech screws marksmen over
2k views in five hours? We all better get ready for some Raiden action! Heavy heavy anti-air from the start as a deterrent?
can't wait for mass raiden build for the memes.
I think the "chain" tech needs a damage cap, if the raiden hit's for 24k, then the 24k is split between the initial target taking all 24k if it's got the hp, if not the damage chains onto the next target for the remaining damage.
even though the chain is very broken, even the fork is pretty good and emp is also insane
It should just split total DMG.
@@aiugiamos3057 That could be interesting - splitting its damage the more it splits, but perhaps dealing a little more if there is only a single target? Plus the fork only working if it overkilled the initial target - that could allow for some counterplay. Aside from perhaps a lightning rod tech, similar to the anti-missile techs, though I fear that may be overkill.
just for fun, I played a match against a bot to try chain+fork+range = MY GOD ALMIGHTY
@@SurreyEZ I just found out that chain+emp hits phantoms even if they are cloaked which emp's them out of cloak. Super strong counter.
Honestly I think fork needs to also slow attack speed by like 15%in addition to the range nerf
Its almost like double shot
how can quick supply specialist be so obvious given the choices? E.g. is 200 worth more than a 17% hp boost or whatever that number is on fortified specialist? Seems like in later rounds especially it should return more value than 200? Or what am i not seeing?
Can we switch the unit to ground only maybe? What's the solution Surrey?
I don't like the unit design at all since it basically does everything. Its hard to balance. It's going to be totally useless or totally broken very often. Every time they change something else, it affects this unit also.
Units is not fun to play against. But I dont fear that they will balance it, the wraith was even worse at the beginning.
1:22:26 did I just witness fort AA break a shield?
Yes aa missiles damage shield bubbles
I currently have 2 big issues with this game, Raiders and Sabertooth as a starting unit, also those 2 units made my Steel balls even worse.
have you noticed raidens behave differently with mobile beacons !! the unit keeps moving, but I don;t know if thats exploitable with some niche strategy
The real question is, what nerfs would balance it?
People understanding it and actually countering it would be a good start. The only thing that makes it OP is the access to EMP.
Tbh I think the only balancing needed is to make the 3 primary techs more expensive, chain in particular, to make an early transition into carry raiden a bit more difficult
Would reduce range be a good nurf.
As its potency against medium units remains but makes it more vulnerable to AA
It's already hard countered by airspec...
@@aiugiamos3057 Good to know
thank you
In every game you had max 4 raidens in round 6. In the first game only two actually at round 6. SO much for: only build arclights, fangs and some raidens. Bad summary of the "whole" strategy.
They should just lower the range of Raiden to like 70 base. That would solve most problems, I think. no?
Scurry, hear me out. What if Raiden was only air to ground and couldn't shoot up? Do you think that would make it more interesting and more counterable?
Yeah even with nerf the raiden is just too annoying. Since the season started I've played 17 games and every. single. one. has been raiden. Which is to be expected of new units but they're simply too easy to win with. Even beginning the game considering them and building a board to counter them, it's still a problem when they come down. I like the idea of the unit but I don't know if the execution is well done tbh.
Raiden was such a mistake. It's a shame, I really enjoy this game but until Raiden takes harder hits or possibly a rework of sorts I might need to take a break lol.
Free MMR with Raiden is a fucking understatement. The unit is absolute cancer.
@@ianrobinson7740 I'm not so sure, I have only lost to it twise, once because I stepped out of my comfort zone and tried to force a ball/wraith push (when there was a raiden in the first unit dropp), and once because I tried to tempo play rather then build a solid board (got opponent down to 81hp, then I died like an idiot in two rounds 😀)
@@simontollin2004 What were some of the board states that you won against it? Personally as soon as they came out on the other side (post turn 5 so lots of supply available) it instantly swings in their favor and I can't recover.
just make all other units shoot up and have 30m splash
Raiden spammers when I drop an overlord R3
ionize eats it, kills the build though
Ionise lowkey kills raiden’s strength (killing medium units) in exchange for making them an alright giant killer. There are better options imo..
@Schmoovin_groovin but you need range and probably chain to actually reach HV targets like factories. After all, you always need to protect them from melters, so why would you choose ionize raiden? You even lock yourself out of a proper DPS raiden
I could counter it with marksmen mustang and typhoon (MMR1800 at the moment)
You should release a video how to counter, not how to do it. Game is completly unplayable right now between 1600-2000k mmr
I did, do the same thing. That's the counter
This did not work for me at all
Because it legit ain't that good.
crawler, mustang, marksman is a viable counter
This seems to work only above 2000 mmr. When you go down to 1800 mmr where people build snipers and melter and this strat dont work at all.
This unit is overhyped.