(BT81) Star Trek Generations, Was It Really That Bad?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- In today's episode of Truth OR Myth we're taking a look at Star Trek Generations and asking that favorite trigger question, was it really that bad? :) I hope you enjoy :)
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I never thought it was terrible, but some of the writing made no sense. Why didn't Picard choose to go back in time to before his nephew and brother died? Why can an old BOP destroy the flagship of the Federation? Why didnt the Enterprise change shield freq during the attack? Nit-picky stuff I suppose
Like with the overall scene setup I GET what happened basically battle stress on a system that was strained from a close call caused a warp core breech. But it could have been done so much better. I always saw it as the perfect storm and well they using the worf effect on the enterprise itself to show how big of a villian the main dude was, seeing he was able to hack and give an inferior ship the ability to cripple the flagship. That’s what those shots would have done normally cripple the enterprise. But the close call with the ribbon before that is what lead to the warp core breech.
I'm guessing it was just an off screen thing when worf yells they have found a way through our sheilds they tried changing frequency but they kept matching it since they could see it. As for going back in time don't think picard would mess with the time line that much.
Overall 100% agree with you good enough movie but you can nit pick anything if you want to
I thought the BoP taking out the Enterprise was stupid. Now, as far as the shields go, the only thing I could think for not changing frequencies would be that the Klingons could still see the switch through Geordi's VISOR.
I forgot this was an upload at the end when you wished everyone a
"Merry Christmas" and then you mentioned it being 2022 and I came back to the moment. It felt like being in the Nexus for a few moments.
I think the problem most people have is that the finale' for the series is in some ways superior, but they were writing both at the same time and that can really strain not only a person's creativity but the ability to keep things sorted out mentally. I know they have made that comment on a few commentaries and interviews. Remember how the anomaly in the Devron system had three identical energy beams being directed at it even though the Pasteur was the one that sent out the first one. As we watched the episode in the moment we probably didn't think of it.
I think Generations is a far better freshman film outing for TNG than Motion Picture was for TOS. They had a lot of time to write that one and look what a convoluted mess it became. And I did love the cinematography for Generations more than most of the other films.
LOL Then I have done my job! (Making you truly feel the Nexus!) :P
I found it okay back in the day like some sort of up budgeted, sewn into a movie, 3 part episode... were the writing staff between episodes only shared the cliff notes (Last opinion I've added due to later re-watches). My parents who saw the TOS movies in theaters & dragged my butt along for a few of them, thought it held up better as a "1st movie" for TNG then TOS' 1st go did for it.
I would love if u did these for all the various star trek content.
I value your judgment and. Opionoon even if I don’t always agree.
I love a strong discusson/devate
Thank you very much!
In all honesty the Galaxy Class was a glass cannon disguised as a luxury liner. The destruction of the enterprise, with a highly experienced crew, and the flagship, defeated by a bird of prey that even 1701-A could have stood a chance is sad. That crew should have known to rotate frequencies, and the firepower should have easily overwhelmed the enemy. It made the command crew look like clowns undeserving of a new assignment.
The death of Kirk... They should have Kirk and Chekov go into the nexis and die saving saucer and all hands of enterprise as they heroically commanded the star drive, but in the explosion the saucer makes a crash landing and is totalled.
Just like gene before him, berman was a control freak. Gene being basically pulled from TMP movies, being replaced by Bennett, Meyer, and Nimoy was the best thing that happened for those movies. Just like nemesis, had Nimoy, Meyer, or Frakes Directed and had strong creative input, generations and nemesis would have come out so much better. Berman was a big part of trek, but his controlling tendencies brought about many problems.
Never thought it was bad, but could've been done so much Better!! This movie only wetted our appitites for more!!😛😛😛👍👍🌹Thank You❤❤❤
It really wasn't bad but the destruction of the D and what they did to Kirk is what shot the film in the foot with fandom IMO.
very nice infromtione video. think Generation is not bad. I would like to see Nemoy version
I've actually always liked this movie a LOT.
The ONLY criticism I had was that as I recall, Kirk said he was destined to die alone. But he's not alone in this movie.
I would have liked it more if he had died completely isolated and then his body was found by Picard.
Though, I do appreciate that he "died" alone according to history on the Enterprise B
I have always felt, since watching Star Trek V, that Kirks comment didn't mean he would die alone literally, but rather, he would die alone without Spock and McCoy!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios that's an interesting interpretation.
Thanks, years of experience, and discussions with fandom!
I saw Star Trek: Generations and I liked it. It wasn't that bad. IMO, Star Trek: First Contact was better than Generations, but I still liked Generations. The meeting of Kirk and Picard was amazing and both fighting together was a joy.
When I saw it in the theatre, I felt the same way... But later on...
'Coming to a theatre near you'...(looks panicked)...how do they always know where I am?!?
"This draft of the movie doesn't respect the character of James T. Kirk enough to warrant it... we're going to shoot this other draft in which all he does is ride a horse and then get shot in the back"
LOL
If you view it as a 2 episode arc, it’s wonderful. There just nothing theatrical about it like say First Contact.
Indeed!
What they could’ve done is, they could’ve made it where the ships were battling each other, but they couldn’t communicate with each other. Each thought the other was compromised by some enemy force that way they both sides could do what they usually would do without the fear of anybody looking bad because it would be clear that either side knew who they were truly attacking
The fact that Shatner brought kirk back in his novels gave me some comfort though he said n star trek 5 he would die alone but that means without his friends picard didn’t count i guess
I suppose if they left the fight between the D and the romulan d'deridex in the fat one could of been battered enough for the bird of prey to get some good hits at the end.
I genuinely enjoy it makes me chuckle at times out of all the tng movies its insurrection that i usually forget about
I think a Vorcha or a newly developed BofP could have worked out much better!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios fight wise yes, but it would need an explanation of how the Duras sisters got such a good ship. Their house was in shambles and dishonored by then if I remember right
That had already been explained in DS9, as they were rebuilding their forces, so that didn't need to be explained...
Poor Star Drive...
Problems aside, STG gave us a good look at the Enterprise-B who, according to Beta Canon, became a legend in her own right (after Tuesday, of course 😉) and had the second longest service life of any ship in her lineage. 🖖😎👍
I like Generations, I think that the scenes with the Enterprise B are the superior part of the film, but as a few others have pointed out, the writing for some of the TNG scenes don't make sense. Overall, Generations is a good film, like if I had to give it a grade in school, I'd give it an 84 B grade.
If you think about it as a blockbuster made for tv movie it's a pretty good effort !
Problem is, it wasn't! :P
i always thought of the Nexus to be an original concept, i hope the Nexus Ribbon gets revisited in another Star Trek Series at some point??
the enterprise re-lighting I always attribute it to ship upgrade.
Generations could have been a little better.
However, overall I for one enjoyed it, minus seeing the D crashing on Veridian III and of course the writers not even having Worf remodulate the shields to stop the Duras sisters from totaling the Enterprise-D.
Although I know they destroyed the D because they wanted a new Enterprise for First Contact. Even though they toyed with the idea of renaming the Enterprise-D filming model to Enterprise-E.
One of my brothers has a hard time watching Kirk's death in the movie though.
We did get an awesome score from Dennis McCarthy and it's one I enjoy especially in complete form.
As long as you dont look at Generations too closely, it's wonderful!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Very true.
I really enjoyed the first parts of the film. Scotty was one of my favourite characters from TOS, but sort of halfway through I thought it felt like just an extended episode despite the acting talent on show. However, it wasn’t terrible as some say.
I liked it. Kirk was awesome. Picard was still Picard, not dried up. D went down too easily, but the crash sequence was cool. Maybe an extra bird of prey w some new footage would have made it better.
I watched all of the TNG films this week, I liked generations
Even though it is gut wrenching to say this, I do agree with the idea of killing Kirk in the end, if Kirk were to be alive, without a doubt the studios would extend his usage till death, he has been used for so long from the motion picture till the undiscovered country, it was fitting to end the story of Kirk there since it's been quite miserable for him since his son died and there was no possible lineage (except for that episode in Picard season 3), however, i do think that they should've gone with what Shatner originally wanted which he stated in an interview which he said he wanted Kirk to die in wonder. I am content with the idea of sending of James T Kirk, i'm just not satisfied with how they did it.
I think the idea of the death was a great one, it was just poorly executed...
I never had a problem with it, but it didn't feel like a movie. It felt more like a mediocre two part episode. Personally I would have loved some epic that brought each series together, including DS9 and Voyager. It could have boosted DS9 and served as a backdoor pilot for Voyager.
The stories that could have been...
Haven't watched it in a while. Most of the criticisms still stand from the passing of the baton feeling like it didn't hit right and the nonsense with the Ent D's fight making the Galaxy look underpowered or the crew incompetent. Despite that i never really hated this movie. It did give us the Ent B even if for a short time and i didn't mind the changes to the bridge set.
Insurrection was the one i disliked the most since it felt like a TNG episode instead of something worth the movie experience.
I liked it! Nothing wrong with it at all
Honestly, I liked Generations. I'd rework Kirk's death so it's more of the proverbial blaze of glory, though. EDIT-- Come to think of it, I'm tempted to watch it this weekend. 🙂
For me as a Star Trek fan, only two movies are bad from my point of view, those are Star Trek V The Final Frontier and Star Trek Beyond this last one because they killed the Enterprise so quick and so easily. Actually Generations was the first ST movie that i've saw, then after i've watch the entire movies until the last one (Star Trek Beyond)
I don't think that two enterprises battling each other was a good idea plus Picard's enterprise would destroy Kirk's enterprise would be destroyed easily
I never really considered it "Bad" per se. It certainly ranks above V and Nemesis. But being nestled between 2 of the Better Movies. You can't help but compare it its betters
Well it does make sense to compare it to itself, it's what we've always done with film and television!
The only thing of this movie, i truly disliked... is the senseless destruction of the D. Otherwise, i really liked it. 🥰
Killing Kirk like the way they did on a bridge was totally Underwhelming he should have (in my opinion) died in a blaze of glory on his Enterprise
I wish they could have found a way to make that work!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios me too😪
I thought Kirk went out pretty cool, death simply caught up w him, finally. Self sacrifice, and Kirk daredevil mentality. Simple, but he saved millions. He made a difference, kinda w out fanfare.
It wasn't bad, but mid. With the Klingon ship so close they would have easily blown it to bits.
It was a good movie. May not been perfect still very good.
It was not that bad... it was just not great... and we all wanted a great TNG movie.
Generations was terrible. Watchable, but terrible. The key problem was on a fundamental level, the ceaseless need to subvert our expectations or play with our continuity. It treaded so close, so often, to truly great ideas, without ever actually understanding what made those ideas great. Many people love to speak of Star Trek 5 as an unrealized dream, tarnished by fool-hearty production and directing, but I feel like that applies more here than even there.
We get an El-Aurian as a villain. Fantastic idea! Putting the mystique that gave Guinan her almost chilling perception into the position of a villainous role was inspired. Yet... what did we actually get to see for it? He gets Picard triggered and boasts about "listening" during an interrogation scene. There's none of the actual mystique, nothing to enthrall or haunt us as there rightly ought to be. A concept so brilliant deep becomes a sigh and a nudge.
The death of Picard's family is horribly misplaced here. Sir Patrick does his best to sell us on it, and it's a wrenching scene, but it seems to exist purely to give our villain something to jam his finger in. Despite only appearing in one episode, Rene, Robert and Marie were the center-piece of what is one of my favorite episodes, because it combined a startlingly human glimpse into the lead character outside his TV-show duties, and possessed more soul than almost any other episode. Family was a priceless gem of pure heart, that with one sentence on a page was quite literally thrown into the fire. A brutal tragedy, for tragedy's sake. Another attempt at a blatant audience reaction, which a beautiful element of the show was sacrificed to create, making the episode it drew from, itself, insanely harsher in hindsight.
The Romulan Battle being removed, with the Enterprise showing up too late to do anything is another needless attempt to simply surprise the audience, and they admitted this behind the scenes. They dropped the Romulan Battle both to save budget, and to subvert expectations. But as a point on a mystery plot, it's trivialized and ignored. We see a Romulan body among the rubble, and move right along. It lacks weight, it offers no suspense, it incites no intrigue. The risk of Romulans being involved should be a spine-chilling reveal, not a throw-away excuse, but the way it's executed gives very little sense of danger.
The uniforms were a particularly egregious example of the lazy kind of attention this production got. They borrowed half the crew of DS9 uniforms, to try to look up-to-date, but didn't bother with fitting or switching accurately. The look of the mixed and mis-fitted uniforms is absolutely unprofessional, and gives the entire thing a subtle atmosphere of not even trying, which compounded upon the changed lighting and modified bridge. Red Letter Media rightly proclaims at this, "You might not notice it... but your brain did." So many small details are just wrong, that you feel instinctually alienated. The Familiar has been turned Foreign, turning our subconscious against accepting this as the ship and crew we know. It feels like a parody, like a fan production that somehow got the actual actors into a garage. We'd have enjoyed the flawed, cheap-looking TV Set more because of the familiar comfort it would have given. No one would have questioned it any more than we question Star Trek 6 using the Enterprise D's warp core. It's an acceptable break from reality, because it has that tone of what we know behind it. But we got none of that. Instead, it is tinged with abstract distance, like a house after you've moved out of it.
And, of course, there's the death of Kirk. There are many problems here, many of which have been beaten to death. But the center of that Gordian Knot is a simple, all-permeating fact: The Death of Kirk lacks respect for the character. How he died doesn't matter as much as the blatant realization we get that this was done just to try and force our emotions. A one-off villain with no impact on anyone involved took down our most decorated hero. It didn't matter if it was a shot to the back, a bridge, or infinite noogies. The fact is, they treated Kirk as 'just a guy', and allowed him to die like an Extra, or as TV Tropes would call it, a "Mauve Shirt". Kirk was made expendable, rather than being given a moment that invoked the gravitas of his role in both the franchise and the universe within. He was contrived to an end that sits unmarked, unheralded, and cheap, and that is a violation the fans have never, and will never forgive.
There are worse Star Trek Movies, for sure. There are worse TNG movies, in fact. Generations is one that looks better in retrospect, only because so much worse has come forwards. It's what I like to call "The Phantom Menace Effect", where a property's value is reconsidered based soley on the dismal quality of what followed further down the road. But, even colored by the shortcomings of Insurrection or Discovery, Generations is just a cankering sore on the franchise, and an early indicator of the path the owners of the franchise were already walking down; willing to sacrifice character, meaning, continuity, depth, and the spirit of what we loved on the pyre of cheap surprised, sudden upsets, "gatchya" moments, and self-righteous narrative enforcement. Generations was the moment Star Trek said it was willing to break its own elements and betray its fans for whatever half-brained idea its creators had, in that moment. And while that's not new, many of the worst episodes all the way back to TOS have suffered this... this was the moment it became a driving force of the Franchise, and not just another bad Episode or Movie. This is the moment it stopped sticking its toes in the mud, and decided to dive head-first into it.
It could’ve been a great movie if it was given more time to cook. How would you rewrite Star Trek generations? I’ll share a ton of my ways. I could rewrite generations. You can share me yours.
Although not love, I still liked Generations. There are many nitpicks but people’s main grip has always been Kirk’s death. I personally liked it I found it fitting. Having him die in battle on the bridge would feel too cliche. Although not alone alone, he said in V that he knew he’d die alone. He was away from his Enterprise, away from his crew and away from his time. He was by many metrics, alone.
That was never the problem with his death, the Problem was the way he die, falling with the section of that bridge... That is not a heroic death really, it was a last minute change that didnt work for the majority of fandom!
Wasn't god awful like Inssurection at least.
No, it wasn't a bad movie at all, in fact, it's the second best of the TNG films.
Why the Christmas music? It’s April 2024
Did you read the screen at the beginning?
I saw the movie in cinemas when it came out & really liked it but the things I didn't like were killing kirk, BoP destroying the D & picard not trying to save his brothers side of the family
Uhhhhh how could Picard, out in deep space, save his brother and nephew?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios did you already forget the part of the movie where he's told when he leaves the nexus he can go anywhere anytime
No, I haven't forgotten that, but if he left the Nexus and went back to save his brother, how could he save the Entire Veridian Star System as he wouldn't be on the Enterprise? Did you forget THAT part?
Oh and by the way, the impression the movie gives is that he can only go anywhere in which he already was IE he must replace himself...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios he could go back in time send a message to starfleet to help them while still being on the enterprise & could've stopped soren at amorgossa by having security take soren to the brig before soren could launch the probe at the star
There wouldn't have been enough time for that either, unless he were to really screw with time going back weeks or even months, as subspace comms to Earth take time... Then he'd have to try to relive every moment he had already lived exactly, in fear of breaking the timeline, something which Starfleet has regulations against! And do you really think Picard, a selfless man, would break his own morality to save 2 people when billions of lives were at stake? I mean what if he had went back in time, saved his family with a message, and by doing so he set in motion an entirely new chain of events that cause not only Veridians destruction, but also the destruction on a bunch of Starfleet ships as well? Or Soran seeing the Starfleet forces waiting for him, altered his plan to another place and time causing THAT star systems destruction? You're idea is a horrible one as there are FAR too many variables to work with, and the further Picard went back in time, the larger the chance something would be screwed up caise a bigger disaster! This has ALWAYS been the case with Time Travel!
W-Why all the Christmas music….?
Someone didn't pay attention to the message at the beginning of the video...
Oops😅 I guess you’re right!
Lol usually lol 🤣🤣🤣
I didn’t like movies, 1,5, & 7. Six should have been the fifth movie. Star Trek: First Contact should have been the seventh movie.
I don’t like the story lines in the J.J. Abrahams Star Trek movies. I’m tired of seeing timeline story lines.
I did not care for the redesign of the Enterprise either.
To me Generations is 'that bad' and much worse. It's by far the worst Star Trek movie, and I can't understand how anyone can defend it. It is one of the most lazily-written movies I've ever seen, with seemingly no thought put into any single plot point. The villain plots to blow up an inhabited system so he doesn't have to fly into the nexus, except he wouldn't even know the nexus exists if not for the fact that anyone can enter the nexus by being on a ship as the nexus destroys it, rendering the entire story pointless. Not a single person the crew is trying to save is ever even seen, which means that the story would have no stakes even if the villain plot had more than a single second of thought put into it. Everyone is a complete idiot and only Kirk and Scotty have any semblance of competency in either era. Even without the terrible ways the Enterprise was destroyed and Kirk killed, this would still be a really bad movie. If an Ai was told to write a script for the worst possible Star Trek movie, it would be like Generations. The only thing of any quality in the entire movie is the saucer crashing. It's the Star Trek equivalent of Rise of Skywalker, only even worse.
It was perhaps the most unconvincingly contrived and weak of all Trek movies.
Plus they killed Kirk in about the worst way imaginable.
4/10
Once again, a TH-camr reviewing Generations gets one specific fact wrong: DeForest Kelley didn't CHOOSE to not be in this movie; he couldn't get film insurance because of his health issues.
First off, no need to be snippy! Second, please show me where this information is from! As a TH-camr reviewing the movie, I don't include rumors as fact. Both Shatner, Nimoy and various other biographies and background information dont say what you're claiming at all! So Ill wait for your valid source of this information...
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios
I'm pretty sure I saw that on a video about the making of Generations, but I couldn't find the exact video. However, I DID find the following quote in an article by Screenrant 6 years ago; it's also listed in the Trivia section for Generations on IMDb.
DeForest Kelley has stated he felt he had an appropriate farewell in The Undiscovered Country. He did decline returning to the Star Trek universe, but some part of him wanted another chance to play his iconic character, Dr. McCoy. And who could blame him?
At the time of casting the original series’ actors into the movie, Kelley’s health had been declining for some time. Union requirements for anyone on a film set include actors having on-set insurance. Kelley was unable to get the required insurance, so he was unable to take part in the movie.
He had to withdraw from the movie. Any lines written for Kelley were given to Walter Koenig’s character, Chekov. However, Kelley did make it to the premiere in Hollywood on November 18, 1994.
Let's see, so what you've got is some unknown source that you think you remember that from, and Screenrant, a website historically inaccurate in it's reporting LOL So you've got nothing... Being a responsible TH-camr, I only include such information that I can confirm in at least 3 different and valid sources. Ive talked to several TNG Production team members and they've said what you think is completely untrue... In future, you might want to research your complaint before coming in Phasers Firing, it will serve you better!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios
Ok, poor choice of words on my part. I KNOW I heard that statement around the time the movie was released (this is BEFORE anyone in my family had internet access), & I'm pretty sure it was in “The Making of Star Trek: Generations” special; I just don't have the actual video to confirm that is the source of the statement.
Two other facts lend credence to this statement being accurate:
1. IMDb has procedures for people to request that incorrect trivia items be deleted, which hasn't happened, & considering that the item has 215 out of 217 votes for “interesting”, that trivia item has been on the page for a substantial period of time.
2. On EVERY video review of Generations that I've seen which is like yours, I've either left the previous comment myself or thanked another commenter who had already stated it. Additionally, in their videos about Generations, JoBlo Originals & Trek Culture included the statement themselves. Out of ALL these cases, you are the first one I've seen who has doubted the accuracy of this statement.
Again you've got nothing... Another TH-camr is not a valid source no matter how much you like them or want to believe what they say for buying in to a rumor... And neither is Imdb as it human altered, and not direct from the horses mouth as it were... voting, lemgth of time etc is meaningless and only 200 votes? Lol very meaningless! Most people dont bother with such nonsense as they dont do the research to know if it's true or not! Lol
Lastly, it wasnt in any of the Making Of Generations specials, as I have them all and watched them for writing this video...
SO on one had I have a fan who thinks they heard something one time, from somewhere and backs it up with invalid sources vs Valid Sources like Shatner, Nimoy and several production team members on TNG that I asked yesterday saying that your rumor isnt true at all... Hmmmm who should I believe? Again next time do better research and actually have valid sources before accusing people of being wrong simply because they dont say what you wish was a truth!
Lastly, someone not calling you out on your BS doesn't make your BS true... It just means they're not interested in starting an argument as is much the case with Trek TH-camrs!
Im also closing this thread off here as now you're just traveling in circles! Take care!
(THREAD CLOSED- No further comments will appear to prevent a nonsense circular argument that the OP is simply wrong about)
Tri, you’ve lost the plot on this one and wide of the mark. It’s the worse Trek and destruction of TNG.
No it didn't, and no I didn't! Read the room!
It's really irritating and telling about yourself that you spend a quarter of your video apologizing for what you're doing . Just the world we live in
Way to really exaggerate and It's called being human, and if you don't like it, don't watch, simple! You're not that important and YOUR comment is FAR more telling! LOL Cya
(Thread CLOSED- No further comments will appear to prevent nonsense from the OP)