What Are SSPs-Everything You Need To Know!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- SSPs or Super Short Prints are extremely rare, extremely sought after baseball cards. Typically these cards are image variations of other cards and are limited anywhere from 5-300. In this video we debate what an SSP is in baseball and other sports and much more!
When I see someone purposefully mislabel a card, I refuse to bid on it even if it’s a card I want.
That’s commitment to justice! 😅
@@maligatorbaseball2789 Chris here - I applaud your commitment as well!
👏👏
I just assume they are one of the many scummy, seedy online card dealers, instantly.
If they have 1000+ feedback for selling cards, I won't buy any other card they may list either... it could be a mistake, but the number of "mislabeled" cards that are in the buyers favor is so low compared to those that are mislabeled in the sellers favor...
@@TheRealWarez safe bet!!
Nobody on earth loves SSPs the way this channel loves SSPs 😂
@@aduncaroo Chris here - I sometimes dream of SSP…
Great show guys. If warren spahn came back from the dead and Chris and jeff will appreciate this being a Braves and Milwaukee fan and split him into halves he would easily make the hall of fame today with pitching standards of the Last 7 or 8 yrs. Fight Fight fight. Thanks fellas
@@davidlapointe7446 Chris here - I have no argument against this.
SP's and SSP's have been around a lot longer than image variations. Image variations are simply one type of card that qualifies as an SP or SSP.
Jeff here: I think it's definitely become a matter of semantics and a term meaning different things for different sports. For baseball, SSP and SP have become synonymous with image variations and other short-printed cards (orange /25, etc.) are usually referred to as "numbered parallels" or by their color instead of as an SSP.
@@SportsCardsLive Chris here - yeah there are DP’s and SP’s going way back.
Currently, those terms seems to be used for image variations. At least, that’s how I use them haha
Thanks for watching!
The problem is SP and SSP are relative terms. There is no way "Short print" can have a specific definition. There is no quantifiable definition, only in relation to something else. That's why better terms for cards are things like "Case Hit" or "Box Hit". I hope at some point the hobby can even somehow bring in the number of cases into play, and for rare cards that only appear say in every 10 cases, we start calling those "10 Case Hits" or something that can be directly understood by all collectors
The problem as stated is that the answer everyone gives starts with "I Think", because there is no actual definition or consensus.
We may even need to make Sport Specific definitions, and I think that would be fine.
I think it is more important for them to be defined than anything else.
It should be easy enough for a newbie to understand without having to give a 5 hour dissertation about the differences year to year and set to set.
For Baseball:
If an SP is only an Image Variation of a Base card, fine.
If an SP is any non-numbered Image Variation, Parallel, or Insert with a print run below a Designated #, and SSP being the same but with a lesser Designated #, fine.
Non-numbered is the only thing I say 100%.
P.S. Love all your Shows/Channels. I learn about so many sets and cards that I missed while I was out chasing women in my 20's.
@@mnplumberman Chris here - try not to think of all the great cards you missed out by chasing women!! 😂😂
There are football and basketball image variations that are more valuable/popular than the base like 2012 prizm towel up and towel down Russell Wilson and the 2019 prizm basketball ja and Zion image variations.
@@FreddyFind Chris here - I’m going to trust you on this!
@@SpitballinCards Generally I'd advise against online trust but it's okay in this instance.
@@FreddyFindI had the towel up/down variations in mind actually
Hey guys great conversation as always. Just wanted to drop my two cents.
I think many collectors get easily confused with semantics. Let’s also remember that two differing opinions/interpretations can be somewhat true or accepted at the same time as well.
Here is my opinion, Short prints or Super short prints are exactly what they state. Compared to the normal print run these particular cards are printed less than the average base set. It could literally be by 1 less card or by many many multiples. Unless the manufacturer tells us the print runs exactly, or exclusivity (Case hit, etc.) we can only intelligently speculate/quantify as Scott sometimes does in prior videos.
I think that the debate that you guys feature here is not one of what should or should not be called a short print but instead the hobby’s intermixing /confusing of the term short print and rarity.
A short printed or even possibly a Super Short printed card may not in fact be rare at all. So I think the question shouldn’t be what is the definition of a SP or SSP but instead what is considered rare?
@@ThatsWhatSheSaidSportsCards thanks for watching and giving us a thoughtful response.
Chris here - it was a fun conversation, but of course what terms we use to describe and label things isn’t life and death. Though it can be frustrating!!
What is truly rare? I like that. Great topic.
Thanks for the suggestion!
@@SpitballinCardsThanks for reaching out Chris. I really enjoy watching you guys with your various personalities and numerous opinions.
I agree that none of this is set in stone or life and/or death as you mentioned but it is fun to debate sometimes. I didn’t even get into the difference between short printed vs. short released. The Alex Gordon 2006 Topps Rookie and other well known caught/fixed error/recalled cards come to mind when going down that particular rabbit hole.
Keep up the Great work!
D
@@ThatsWhatSheSaidSportsCards that Gordon card is so interesting!
I’d love to see what would’ve happened with it if he turned into a HOF type player.
Omg I totally messed this up. I thought if you buy it on the first Thursday of the month, then it’s a SSP
😅😂😅😂
@@SportsMDBallcards 😂😂
👏👏👏👏
T-Pott didn't know what it meant to be left on read because it's never happened to him before.
@@rockiesinoctober 😂😂😂
He’s a cocksman!
My personal opinion is that SSP aren’t that rare when u look at the PSA 10 pop counts. If you love them collect them. But from an investment standpoint I don’t see them being worth anything in future. I personally don’t feel safe holding anything with a pop count higher than 10 in a PSA 10.
Well, check out the Topps Chrome SSPs from 2012-2014. Almost all of them are way under your comfort limit! 💪🏼
@@no30036 thanks for watching!
Chris here - I hear what you’re saying. Some update SSP are printed more than we’d like (2018 update for example) but many are truly Super Short.
It’s smart that you’re watching the pop counts. I do the same. As some cards creep up - like several gold parallel gems have the last few years - it’s felt like time to sell.
10 and under seems really low, but I applaud your specificity. I love to have those in 10’s myself whenever possible. But an 11th on the pop wouldn’t be my sell point.
SP and SSP in my eyes are a card that has a same number from “base set” with a different image that is know to be shorter printed.
A case hit (insert or other parallel maybe ) is a case hit or limited serial number run 😌
I suppose we can refer to it as an SSP , yet if it is not an image variant from base card , then I believe it is a misnomer and misuse of the sp and SSP nomenclature and designation.
Nothing is wrong with being exited about an rare /5 red refractor auto ! And that is a hell of a card,,,, but it’s not an sp or SSP 😅
One is not better than the other .
That being said ,,,
I love the rare images of sp and SSP vs parallel of base card .
@@drpearlmantv6357 Chris here - I agree with this.
Thanks for watching and commenting!!
Got to give you guys credit for the thumbnails, they are great
@@jimc.goodfellas thanks!! This one was a funny idea! And thankfully took less time than usual!
Hey Mr. Outdated here! First time I heard the term "SP", I just knew for sure it was referring to Upper Deck SP cards.
@@BaseHeadSports Chris here - great point! The term probably debuted with that 1993 Upper Deck set!
@@SpitballinCards This seems to be a big misconception. The "SP" in that Upper Deck set, does not mean short-print, it means super-premium. That set was massively overproduced.
I think Chris is right in as far as a strict definition. Plus I like his I’m right attitude and stick-to-it-ism. Every is entitled to an opinion but some opinions are right and some are wrong.
But yes it’s a term used vaguely to mainly portray rarity.
PS: Great show fellas
@@KC_CC Chris here - thanks for agreeing with the correct person!!
🍻🍻
A good way to show where topps come from on this subject is with heritage. High numbers from heritage are referred to as SP’s. And the image variations are referred to image variations. Heritage is a great example bc it’s one of the longest running sets with numbered cards, variations etc.
@@nunzi83 Chris here - heritage is great! Definitely a set for long time collectors.
The 75 design this year looks amazing
Coming from the baseball market, I was super confused a few years back when I was searching for Prizm Jameis Winston cards and his SP image variations were selling for the same as his base rookie cards. I really like the SPs $ SSPs, but they require explaining to people that are newer to the baseball market. I think that will always artificially keep the prices lower than they should be. And bowman doesn’t do SPs justice on 1st bowman cards when they don’t put the 1st emblem on the image variations. I’ll never understand why they don’t include it. Really hurts the value of those rare cards
@@ryanra44 Chris here - that’s an issue with the first bowmans for sure. I just don’t understand it at all!!
Chris perfectly stated how the idiot eBay card listings as ssp when there serial numbered parallels,investment,and other players hash tagged😂
@@AlanForest Alan, I hate it so much. Just clogs up all the search results with junk.
I do believe Scott hit the nail on the head when he said the term has evolved. Upper Deck used to release print runs for autograph and memorabilia sets after production. Collectors usually didn’t know if they had an SP until the next Beckett came out, but there were plenty of SP’s that were the only version of that particular player in a set (didn’t have to be and rarely were image variations).
But I believe what it has evolved in to is exactly what Chris is describing. Once the image variations started, SP and SSP took on a whole new meaning. And serial numbered cards are self explanatory, no extra description needed. What’s a 1/1? An SSSSSP Ultra Uber Plus?
@@thekeithy4999 Chris here - thanks for watching! Appreciate the comment.
I’d love to see that description on a psa
Slab!!
I think you missed an S
Good catch, thanks for keeping me honest!
If we think about this though, image variations only carry heavy weight in flagship baseball. Topps series, chrome, stadium club. Even in Bowman, image variations way undersell the base variations. I can get a Wyatt Langford variation auto /99 for 500-600 but a base PSA 10 is 500. In rarely any other product does variations carry weight outside of the main Topps flagship products. Even the new Topps chrome sparkle variations aren’t as coveted as the base.
@@dubscollectables719 Chris here - you’re right about the bowman variations. If topps kept the “1st” logo on the variations, I bet those prices would be higher!
And man oh man, do I dislike speckles.
I’m excited to see who has an SSP in 2024 Topps Chrome, and if the images are good!
@@SpitballinCards only did that 1 year. Seemed it went pretty well. Wished they’d stuck with it. Sadly the main one was Wander
Jeff here: I see what you’re saying, especially with the Bowman prospect variations, but there are quite a few Stadium Club and Opening Day SSPs that hold big value, far beyond the base cards from those years for that player.
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin I agree, I included stadium club as a flagship type product. It’s been around a long time and is key for traditional baseball collectors. But other sets outside of your traditional sets seem to not carry value in the variations like the traditional sets
Chris,
Your Ronald Acuna Jr SSP of Acuna Jr celebrating his 40/70 is a Topps now card! Not sure it’s actually a SSP card. Lol.
@@terrynewhartjr1093 Chris here - I’ve seen the topps now card, I’m just not a fan of those. I’m really hoping we get the image on a pack pulled card. Maybe stadium club??
One thing i noticed in the hobby is across all sports.."on card autos" are king...Football and basketball are way more forgiving on "sticker autos" especially football...baseball collectors hate on-card autos..
@@briansteeler7146 Chris here - yes we do!!
Sticker autos are awful. Personally, I don’t even consider the card autographed.
You put that sticker on a ball and it gets throw in the trash.
Great topic. Albeit a confusing one. The question that came to mind is: is the confusion surrounding shorter prints a significant constraint (or one of a series of significant constraints/frustrations) for newer people entering the industry? It seems to a company like Fanatics that this could be a potential overhang on future profitability in the space? Thoughts?
@@Showcardsusa Chris here - I think the introduction of golden mirror ssp into topps flagship is Fanatics’ way of trying to make it simpler for newer collectors.
Just listening to you all tells everyone how indefinable each of us think about the subject. Were you all SP or SSP or SSSP on the topic? Depends on the person who wants it make the choice of what it is and willing to pay
@@4TheGame2016 that’s the hobby in a nutshell!
It’s all subjective. Everybody can buy whatever they want!
I think SP goes along with the product it’s pulled from. For example heritage black borders. Black and white and throwbacks. All non numbered. Throwbacks would be SSP bc the print run is usually 15 cards. (2024 was 30 cards). Black borders is /50 and black and white is a few hundred. Heritage is highly printed so a card with a print run of 200 or less are short printed and super short printed.
Image variations are a set. Image variations are short printed making them labeled “image variation short print” then there’s super short print image variation etc etc.
@@nunzi83 Chris here - I’ve debated getting some heritage throwback variations. I love the idea and the rarity.
Thoughts on heritage high number sp’s? Not the image variations but the standard base cards that are designated as sp?
@@rivercitybreakers1899 Chris here - heritage can be so confusing!!
Honestly, I dont even know lol
How about an episode on what is or is not a RC? Back in day we had “XRC” which seems to be ignored now. PSA registry sets will not include Tiffany cards for example which I disagree with… an ‘86 Topps Traded Bonds is basically considered a RC but PSA doesn’t.
@@damonhirschensohn7304 Chris here - this would be a fun topic. The Rookie Debate will rage on forever - especially now that Bowman 1st cards are a thing.
I’d definitely consider the 86 update bonds a rookie and I’m with you on the Topps Tiffany cards - they count!
I collect Orel Hershiser for example and his RC registry includes Topps, OPC, Donruss, Leaf and Fleer. It doesn’t include Tiffany though despite being the same card as Topps and OPC versions. Asked PSA to add it to “set” but they won’t because they say it’s not a RC since it wasn’t issued in packs but was part of sealed set. Old Tiffany cards are looked at as RC and every eBay listing and dealer would list them as such (like the Bonds). Now, so many variations and such and ways to get cards from packs, sets, box toppers, etc it’s even more confusing.
@@damonhirschensohn7304 that’s interesting. Because it’s from a sealed set. Hmmm
It really has changed since the inception but this is what I always used
Sp- a card or variation of a card that has a shorter print run than the normal base set print run. ( think Jeter with Bush in the background). Typically associated with topps.
Ssp- above only an even smaller print run then Sps.
Since the original print runs aren't made public, the number associated with either sp or ssp isn't known or identifiable. The exact opposite ruling would apply to DP ( double print) or even TP ( triple print). With many of these terms being used with these definitions since the 1950s.
@@richardbianco9674 Chris here - but would you consider any inserts SP/SSP?
Personally I woundnt
@SpitballinCards nope, that terminology wouldn't apply to inserts or parallels. Strictly to variations of/or short printed base set cards.
@@richardbianco9674 agreed!!!
Well done 👍
@@godisgreat8462 🍻🍻
In general, what's the best way to figure out the print run of an SP/SSP. How do we know how rare these really are? Thanks.
@@jonsmith479 Chris here - thanks for watching!
Knowing exact print runs is always going to be very tough. But to to determine how rare a card is, I look at PSA pop reports and compare with other SSP.
It's all a part of the mystery! 😂
What are your thoughts on if SSP's were numbered? For example, say a particular card is a SSP. Only 15-20 copies in existence. Does it take away from the card itself if there is actual numbering /15-/20? Does that take away from the rarity in your eyes if it is numbered, or does that help to solidify the scarcity of it?
@@TKorn1Cards Chris here - I kind of like the fact that they’re not numbered. Adds some mystery to them.
In topps chrome there are numbered parallels of the SP image variations. I’d love a red refractor #/5 of the devers or Ohtani 2018 SP.
To me, it felt like the eephus IG post came in direct response to people taking liberties on the July 4th #sspthursday to include Independence Day parallels numbered out of 76. Could be wrong, but the post and several replies felt very protective of the "SSP" term for strictly baseball image variations. Would be great if fully accepted definitions could be adopted ... good discussion.
Jeff here: That could be. But seeing as how #SSPThursday happened to fall on Independence Day, we thought it only right to include those in the celebration that day. Hope it wasn't too confusing for people checking in on the hashtag.
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin I'm totally for being more inclusive and it 100% made sense to include any and all Independence Day cards! Just felt some of the "old guard" might have been a little more put off with all the non image variations. I love the fact you've been bringing more education about SSPs/image variations ... hopefully people will unearth more of them out of commons boxes.
@@sfosoxfan Chris here - thanks for watching!
One of the thing s we hoped for by trying to bring attention to these cards is exactly what you il just said - that more would be dug out of boxes!!
I think T pot was confused because it is “left you on read”, the past tense of read 📖, the (red)read vs the (reed)read. Meaning the person has read the message and not responded 😅😅😅
@@MeRestoration Chris here - I didn’t think about that!! Red vs read!
Jeff here: I think he was just confused by the whole thing 😂
Also the 90's insanity had the term DP for double printed, just to make us feel like we really wasted out time buying packs
“Royale with cheese” conversation. Truly! 🤣 SSP is a noun in baseball 🤷🏻♂️
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin 👏👏👏👏👏
Do you guys consider the 1990 Topps George Bush a SSP? Only a few were thrown into the overall production. They are super super rare.
Jeff here: That's a good one! Yes, I would consider that an SSP.
@@mangobango6970 Chris here - such a Cool card. I finally saw one in person at the Burbank card show last summer.
Hmmm calling it an SSP? I don’t know. I don’t think we collectors were ever supposed to have access to them.
Regardless, they’re rare and a cool piece of history.
@@SpitballinCardsIs that right? Were they not for collectors? I.e. not pullable in packs? If that’s the case, I’ll have to rescind my SSP vote.
@@Blabbin_Bout_Slabbin supposedly made just for Bush himself. Topps swears none were out into packs. But some collectors swear they pulled one. Who knows the truth.
Wait... starting @3:52, Ty begins his statement that in football and basketball card circles SSP is used to refer to cards with a print run of 25 or less... he then gives examples; color blasts, downtowns, and kabooms... My question is, do people believe the print of these cards (in any year) is below 25? They seem to pop up in youtube videos and online marketplaces much too often for only 25 copies to exist... But hey, I'm willing to accept my perceptions may be wrong in light of evidence.
Thanks for the content, guys!
I only collect team sets of all years of a few topps brands. My feeling is no parallel or an insert is ever a sp or ssp. A short print has to be the same card number as the base card and not the same photo or another gimmick utilized. Weather it is a sp or ssp is how hard it is to find and the market price especially when product is first released.
@@rookiedog1 Chris here - I agree with your definitions.
It can be tricky to figure out prices right at release, but I really enjoy the excitement of tracking the SP/SSP images.
Thanks for watching!
SSP to me is a useless term to me until they are serial numbered. It's an overused term that only inflates artificial scarcity. I like Gold Foil for one example and they are estimated to be 600 each of but they're also not numbered but who knows. And we don't need the ESPYs anymore. The SP awards would be better. Btw the 52 Mantle was double printed but Topps dumped a bunch of them years later into an ocean allegedly thus creating far less copies overall.
@@chrisc4264 Chris here - 2 things:
1 - I kind of like not knowing the exact print t run and just sort of seeing how often the cards surface. But I understand wanting more transparency from topps.
2 - I wish Topps would go back to dumping huge portions of their cards into the ocean.
@@SpitballinCards They're a monopoly. We need mandatory print runs revealed. More transparency is good for collectors.
@@SpitballinCards They're a monopoly. They need to be transparent and they should be required to reveal print runs
@@SpitballinCards They're a monopoly so we should get mandatory print runs
@@chrisc4264 it shouldn’t be too tough for them to give them to us, right?
No, SP (as in short-print) was not a known term long ago. And no, the 1952 Topps Mantle was not short-printed. If any vintage cards are short in supply, its because they were thrown out by the masses and/or destroyed. The folklore behind the 1952 Topps is that the cases they couldnt sell were dumped into the ocean. Im still skeptical those events even happened. As for the Honus Wagner T206, it was pulled from production. So no, none of these were ever intended to be short-printed. Im a firm believer that a ton more of those 1952 Topps Mickey Mantles exist in ungraded condition. Think of all the older collections that have yet to surface. We'll be seeing alot more of those Mantles.
@@vintagecollector5340 Chris here - first time I ever saw/heard the term SP was the 1994 Upper Deck set with the jeter foil rookie. But the term has definitely changed since then.
I enjoy that 52 Topps legend. I wish topps would dump a bunch of their product into the ocean this year!
@@SpitballinCards They're making too much money to even dare think to pollute the waters now.
This is confusing. Words have meaning. Anything printed at a rate less than the highest base card run is shorter printed than the base. That’s not satisfying though, so rather than coming up with a new concept that matches the reality of what’s being described, we’re trying to change what words like “short” and “print” mean. Chris likes image variations that, as another attribute, are also shorter printed. Here’s a thought - come up with a new word, a fun silly marketing word, that has no actual meaning - and then define it. Chris, your pledge name is no longer SSP Pinto, it’s UltraSnap. Now go and define exactly what UltraSnap means, and get that circulating for adoption. Boom - a new word and a new definition that can be as precise as you want.
@@bogeytmf Chris here - I don’t hate the idea, but UltraSnap needs work! 😂😂
@@SpitballinCards - UltraSnap is indeed weak. GPT is your friend 😝
@@bogeytmf 😂😂
Did you say what your counts for SSPs/SPs are measured against? Less than X [number] across the millions of cards produced overall? In a case? What’s the denominator?
@@timmccoy6356 Chris here - for years, Topps denoted which image variations were classified as SP and which were SSP, so we don’t need to decide based on print runs.
Which is good because Topps was pretty inconsistent with their print runs for these cards over the years. Some are much, MUCH harder to find than others.
@@SpitballinCards Thanks for the reply but I guess I didn’t word my question very well. I just wanted to know when you say there was a print run of “30” (just an example) cards, is that 30 total for all the cards printed or was that 30 of a case or what? I didn’t hear anyone say. 30 cards for an entire card print run isn’t just an SP or SSP, it might as well be a 1/1. Odds of pulling one are astronomical.
@@timmccoy6356 oh ok, I understand.
If we say the print run of a card is 30, we mean the card itself. Only 30 of them exist!
Si
@@dsphillips16 💪
For Topps chrome the let's go are ssp and radiating rookies are sp aren't they?
@@jacoblarsen7309 Chris here - those are insert cards. I can’t call them ssp.
Jeff here: I vote inserts on those, not SSPs
@@SpitballinCards Topps calls the radiating rookies a base variation sp themselves on the official website just saying
On topps official website they describe the 24 radiating rookies as " These arent just any rookie cards-they are sp base variations" just saying.
I kind of agree with the let's go cards tho even if there are only 50 and the odds are crazy
In my opinion and the way I judge sp, ssp, sssp in my collection. Is SP is anything under 400, SSP anything under 100, SSP anything under 25 and then you have 1/1. I try to keep is simple across all sports and non sports. I think if a card is printed less than the regular base card and by how many it's obviously a short print, now if you want to give it a cost value based on that that's entirely up to the person selling and buying.
What up guys
@@PickSixCards 🍻🍻
Don't let this distract you from the real menace: the guy that calls jersey cards "patches"
😂💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
@@jvbaseballcards 😂😂
its left on read(pronouced red) like it was already read by the receiver of the message. left on read(reed) holy shit haha
Jeff here: see, THIS is why we need younger, hip viewers. Thank you for the insight! 😂🙏🏼
Bottom line if numbered it could be sp or ssp depending on high or low the number. Lol
I would think for Topps flagship that there SP or SSP should have been more creative.
@@fliplife67 Chris here - you mean the images? Or the names?
@@SpitballinCards I was thinking different pixs or stock of card like a clear cut on black chrome.
I hit a Hidden Gems the other day and assume they are an SSP
@@Will_The_Ripper Chris here - exactly a card we could debate for hours!
I’d call it an insert. It doesn’t share the base card number or design.
Obviously, it’s very rare. But to me, that’s not an SSP.
Congrats on the pull regardless of what we call it!!
If there ever was a governing body in the card market who could it be good or bad that wouldn't profit from that job that has a clue what there doing.
@@everettkrueger9611 Chris here - this is a great point. The potential for someon to constantly pump and dump would be high.
They should use SSPP on ssp parallels.?.?.?
@@Gram72534 🤔🤔
Okokok so anything less than 100 is ssp. Simple whether numbered or not
@@Leadoff_hitter Chris here - those are technically short printed (adjective) but I cannot call them super short prints (noun).
Maybe I’m just a crazy person.
Those aren't baseball cards u can call them whatever u want lol 😆
@@davidlapointe7446 🤔🤔🤔
….. Ty, please STOP calling for some form of “regulations”. The LAST thing the hobby / industry needs is the GOVERNMENT (🙄) stepping in. IF YOU HAVEN’T NOTICE, they can’t regulate THEMSELVES, let alone others 🍻
Dude is insufferable lol
@@JoeyM007 Chris here - I don’t think Ty is calling for any government oversight into sports cards. Just consistency. And that’s gotta come from PSA in my opinion.