Been watching you for a long time on and off. Started watching SC2 back when husky and HD Starcraft. Keep up the good work making watching this fun. Dont play the game but I enjoy watching it.
I swear if terran is complaining about the ghost nerf is b/c the ultra is no longer a derp of a 6 supply unit. god forbid zerg having a good t3 unit that isn't a spell caster.
I mean, as an ex protoss player (I don't play Starcraft 2 anymore), I would point out Terran Nerf whining is a time honored tradition, but Protoss' learned helplessness is a bit more time honored. I present my exhibit, Protoss players making the joke that next patch the balance council will patch out the Protoss race. The amount of salt mined from my fellow protoss was huge. So much so they completely forgot how powerful being able to give energy to a spellcaster that just spawned is. Being able to scout *EXACTLY* what your opponent is doing by minute 3 with a hallucinationed Pheonix is big. Especially as your final army comp is going to include sentries for forcefields, and just being able to constantly send a fast free scout is something even Zerg doesn't have. That's without talking about storms, said above forcefields, Oracles, the new Mothership being able to force out 60 supply of corruptors from Zerg just by existing. The learned Helplessness of 'toss was appalling to see, and makes me question how I was back when I played.
@@Mikalent Ex-Zerg player here, so I have no stake, but agree completely. The new Energy Overcharge ability sounded HUGE for Protoss and I couldn't believe the lukewarm or even hostile reception from many players and casters. They focused on the nerfs, like the removal of Battery Overcharge (which was always a band-aid), and wrote off subtle but significant buffs like the Mothership becoming an AoE powerhouse. I think SC2 balance was already in a great place and just needs some creative tuning; and this patch is way underappreciated across the board. But what do I know, peaked Plat.
21 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4
@@Mikalent The reality is that Terran have too many answers for virtually every situation, most of which are inexpensive for their time/cost/supply investment. Explain to me how it is that a terran's own widow mine can go off in their own mineral line, yet not wreck their own economy, meanwhile that same mine takes out mutas or an oracle. Terran don't really need to plan ahead, they can mass virtually any type of army they want and have it be viable against their opponent's build, regardless of what that build is. Hell mass marines can beat Carriers. How is that 'balanced' ?
Because if a Protoss makes Carriers against Terran they are bad at the game and deserve to lose while being laughed at? 😂That's like complaining that Zeolots can a-move & kill a dozen tanks. Mutas with an Overseer can easily one-shot mines before they fire. That happens often at pro level unless the Zerg is bad 😂I'm not even what universe you're from where you think an Oracle should be able to counter mines as an army unit...
I'm not saying that Terrans didn't deserve the nerf, in fact, I feel they deserve a few more nerfs. What I am complaining about is Protoss player's perpencity to look at what is a *very* powerful ability, declare it to be useless or next to useless, look at a very powerful crutch, and that is what SBO is a crutch and bandaid on protoss, being taken away, declare the new, arguably *more powerful* ability to be useless, and that "at this point, you might as well patch Protoss out of the game". Because they lost the ability to turtle the entire early and mid game. At least with Zerg and Terran, they have move onto the map and actually commit to harass their opponent, as compared to even high level Protoss who primarily play defensively and around their Nexi.
15:25 Not a 30 minute game but Maru vs Astrea got to the point where those 10 ghosts eating up 10 extra supply seemed to have an impact on Maru at 200/200.
If they removed Muta from the game nobody would even notice. 2 widow mines, a parasitic bomb, a fungal, some stalkers… will kill 20 mutas… not worth the risk. They are made of paper and tickle.
Edit: Making a group of 5 can be done multiple times. A lair isn't a muta-specific, and a spire is needed for corruptors. 32:30 Muta's are overproduced in most games. They're best used in groups of 5 to cut off reinforcements or harassing workers. Rogue had 11 muta's here when 5 would be enough to do what he wanted to do with them.
@@Fishbro you forget the upfront cost of making mutas, which is 200/200 for the spire and 150/100 for the lair. So making only 5 is usually not worth it
But how do you really balance themm if they tank too much in hands like reynor mutas would be impossible to kill. Lowerimg the cost causes the same issue, good micro save a lot of them, so u have way too many and becomes almost impossible to counter. Not so easy kiddos
Ghost nerf can definitely more be seen in the late game when they doing have enough Vikings with toss. Winters game with astrea recently was a great example in afew games.
Many of the Zerg issues could be solved if the baneling nest allowed to create scourge from lings. ( Flying bane from sc1). That would allow to drop the nerd hammer on the queen
A single muta cost 100/100 and has less DPS than a single zergling. wtf would you make them. Mobility is useless if all they do is tickle. Make mutas great again
zdps, expensive, hard to tech into, basically melee range, have essentially 0 hp, requires a 2nd brain to micro correctly, yea they are quite bad, mobility can only take a unit so far.
i find theyre quite useful in low masters. if you can have 2 ling groups and a muta group you will get damage somewhere. mobility is king if youre not defending, and youre also smarter or faster. but also at the same time. you can build hydras instead and not lose 3000/3000 to 3 75/25 mines. so.
@@Kiennguyen22360 you arent in the professional starcraft 2 scene. which means neither is your opponent. i can get value in masters. it is harder than hydras, much more rewarding tho. i feel like a sexy beast. it is zergs theoretical strongest comp. just weak versus thors and pre 8 tank pushes.
Mutas were so fun in Broodwar and early SC2, I feel sad that everything counters mutas now. IMO the problem with mutas isn't the actual muta stats, it's the fact that Spire is 200/200. That is a heavy weight to carry in midgame! I'm actually curious how good Mutas would be if they came from a 100/100 Lesser Spire, with a 100/100 upgrade to Spire (prereq for corruptors).
You are correct regarding the damage, but the splash seemed to have increased as well. "Thor. Explosive Payload (“splash mode”) Damage is increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 8 (+4 vs light). Explosive Payload Splash Radius is increased from 0.5 with 100% splash damage to 0.5 with 100% damage, 0.75 with 75% damage and 1.25 with 50% damage. Explosive Payload Attack Range is decreased from 10 to 7." Which makes them better vs mutas, if they are in range ofc, which is harder.
Lowko I'm pretty sure the Thor isn't better against Mutas, it's just better against everything else. The patch notes say "Explosive Payload (“splash mode”) Damage is increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 8 (+4 vs light)." So since Mutas are light, wouldn't the Thor continue to do 12 damage to them?
I can't wait until we see a decent sample size of the top Zerg players on this build. Zerg looks a little weak so far, but it's so hard to know how competitive they are until we see Dark/Reynor/Serral.
Idea for zerg anti air... Upgrade to allow swarm host locust to shoot air. Seems a underused unit. Maybe they only shoot while in air or you adjust the swarm host like a thor.
Hmmm. Maybe instead of buffing stats of muta, they can make them cheaper? So that it doesn't feel that heavy of a commitment to the unit. I'm afraid if we buff there stats even a little the mutas could become absurd
I never get why nobody goes mass mutalisk but does not add in 4 or 5 vipers with blinding cloud on the ground units. Whenever a terran masses infantry with a lot of medivacs, parasitic bomb doesn't usually kill medivacs outright but it will soften them up enough that mutalisks can take out an entire fleet of medivacs fairly easily. But really, adding in vipers during the transition to the late game rather than spending all of your gas on more and more mutalisks is much smarter and more effective. And while Thors are a hard counter to mutalisks now, Thors can't hit mutalisks with blinding cloud on them either. Finally, whenever mutalisks are zoned out by anti-air ground units due to their short range, viper abduct can help out a lot with that problem so you don't charge into a wall of marines and medivacs in desperation to kill a few siege tanks hitting your hatchery.
The ghost nerf was literay the smallest thst could have been done. Personally, im still for giving the emp back to the science vessel. Also, replace the raven with the science vessel. I never build a ton of ghosts though cause they need to be babysat. Ans i think terran strategies are hard to change because of how the buildings work and how units are produced. I overbuild spores a lot of the time now against protoss and sooometimes against terran. They are awesome for map control later in the game Protoss still arent up to snuff in pro play i believe but at my level its a ton of fun right now.
Yes mutas failed, but it was as much due to poor execution and planning as anything else. You saw how disruptive it can be picking off reinforcements. So you have a better ground defense first and then catch an opponent off guard with it? There's plenty of potential. Nice to see my recommendations being realized as potential strats by pros. Now to find that Reynor game you mentioned...
¿En serio ser tragan el cuento de que MMM con Stim es igual a la actual velocidad de los Ultras? Literal se ven súper lentos, dan pena. Ese nerf de velocidad es completamente innecesario, especialmente cuando es una unidad de cuerpo a cuerpo que no tiene ningún bonus contra nada. El no quedarse detrás de otras unidades es un arreglo, no un buff. Es como si el Coloso chocara con cualquier unidad.
I'm waiting for HellClone builds to return, I think it may be a little OP against Ling/Roach, leaving Z pretty well up a creek. The original Clones were nerfed b/c they killed structures so fast Z couldn't even hold the natural.
@@SD-jf7nb I really don't think that was the case. Hellion with Cyclone wasn't a played comp before the ciclone changes. The changes actually were meant to be a buff to turn battlemech more viable
@@theorochocz6735 original cyclones could only be killed by mutalisk, honestly. They, paired with hellions could withstand any ling attack, they were good vs roaches, ultralisks could not reach them, because ultralisks are slow.
Can't help but feel that with the recent games we've been seeing zerg has gotten too weak since the patches, and not only they want to make the late game harder for zerg players, they're also fucking with our early game of all things. Makes me not want to come back to the game tbh, even tho the changes don't really affect lower level play that much.
I just can't take any terran seriously that thinks the ghost is fine, in fact I still think it's incredibly overpowered - delete unit spell that counters every larger zerg unit while the auto attack is good against light units, and a long range large AoE 100 instant damage against protoss, neither of those are okay IMO.
Why dont zerg ever make more static defense? In pretty much every game I see, a banshee or oracle gets atleast 3 or more drone kills. So why not just invest those lost drones into another spore before they are inevitably lost?
simply because it costs too much in the early game. example you build 2 additional spores -> 150 minerals + the drones (2 larvae/ 100 minerals for drones). and the spores don't help you against hellion or marine push.
Wasting money on static defenses means you get pushed elsewhere and killed. Zerg early game is not even "hanging by a thread", its in freefall, completely dependent on massive mistakes from the other races to make it playable at all.
I definitely recommend this if you're a noob, I like to have 3 on my main at least by midgame, one by either gas and one covering the larvae from Libs in particular, but also Banshee, Voids, Phoenix, etc. This save s me a lot of my sub 100 apm (avg., 300 - 600 spike) moving spores around, but same for P or T, and things can't fly through your base while you're microing your F2 across the map, without being in range of at least 1 spore, turret or cannon. A spore and a spine on most other bases, mostly to counter help counter mid to late game run-by's, DT, Zealot, etc., but Terrans tear through static easily, merely stalls Zealot, etc. so not really worth over investing, better to have it protecting your tech from drops. Also, drop a safety tumor in your tech at some point, and put all Ovies on gush as soon as you get to lair so that when they snipe your Hive you can keep your tech from bleeding out. Ovies will continue to gush after losing your Lair if they are already gushing. Oops, One more: I sometimes spam a blind spine, on my 3rd usually, in a gap on the mineral line to discourage Hellion run-by's, maybe even s couple of slow banes on the mineral line that they often just run right into if they aren't looking - won't kill them, but they often freak out and run away. 😅
It's tough, they tried to buff the spines to help the queen nerf but spine rushes prompted a reversal. you need to make them stronger while slowing their build rate, like maybe if it had to be produced from the hatchery like a queen
game 3 was a lot closer than lowko realizes. Spirit was basically on a 2 base all in, his 3rd was his old main. The moment rogue lost all his mutas and sent his banelings way off creep it was gg for zerg. I don't know if rogue underestimated the amount of marines still left or if he thought it was all or nothing there. Although i do agree Rogue expanding his 3rd towards terran was certainly an odd choice after going for a two base muta push.
@@LowkoTV feels like half the zerg gas units require the opponent making a mistake to win from your PTR vids. rogue is just playing hope chess on this patch 😭
I don't even play this game so coming from a neutral viewpoint of someone who has merely observed hundreds of games, the balance continues to get worse. It's not that it is getting more imbalanced toward Terran, it's that the game has BEEN imbalanced for a couple of years and every change made does not fix it, but adds new learning curves and obstacles. This does not help to make the disadvantaged races more playable, just adds time to figure out how to solve the balance issues. It's just a form of stalling, which may be intentional if they just want to keep the game in this sad state. Not sure why they'd do that when 2/3 of players are getting railed pretty hard and the third has to keep dodging minute inconveniences every patch. Just fix it.
Zerg as a race doesn't function without the mutalisk, it's a key component of the race's ability to deal with air. Without it, Zerg is just way too easy to bully. Muta needs to cost less or for its counters to be toned down. Until then Zerg will have a garbage design that isn't fun to watch or play.
So 20 ghosts now cut down to 13± at equal worker count, although Terran is typically 10 workers down, while somehow being 10 army supply ahead before max out in a majority of games of TvZ. I've seen Terrans come back with 0 supply of workers, it means Terran will be forced to make like 10 Orbitals every game, so a big adjustment eh? At any rate, it's 10 fewer Marines, Hellions, etc., at even worker supply to tank for the 20 Ghosts Terrans need to win the game, could be tense! 😅
You and Uthermal are just both click bait title commentators. Uthermal use to be better but lately boxed himself into his own internal thoughts way to much, all this "patch upgrades: less minerals extra minerals seems to be so much focus, it is hardly any major changes. 25 minerals here and there changed. Drones still cost the same originally. It's like 1+1 equals window. Shocking broadcasts IMO.
@lowko From the way I read the new patch it doesn't buff thors against mutas. Since before the patch they did 12 (6+6) damage and with the new patch they still do 12 (8+4) damage as mutas are light. It did buff them against units like corrupters.
Queen mineral change makes no difference, as per most zerg changes they can very easily work around it. The number of queens a zerg has access to has not changed at all.
u know why he lost? he went mutas. like its crazy how all they did with zerg over the years is basically make the spire meaningless when back in the day every zerg went mutas to broodlords. but mutas and broodlords suck ass now so its all roaches/hydra/lurkers/ultas in that order as the game goes on. they cant take the mutas out of the game cuz then it really shows how shit zerg anti air is when u have a unit that can attack air and land be soo shit.
Been watching you for a long time on and off. Started watching SC2 back when husky and HD Starcraft. Keep up the good work making watching this fun. Dont play the game but I enjoy watching it.
I swear if terran is complaining about the ghost nerf is b/c the ultra is no longer a derp of a 6 supply unit. god forbid zerg having a good t3 unit that isn't a spell caster.
it cant even catch stimmed marines anymore. eventually you can catch up to stutter steps. but it will be dead if they have any marauders. ykwim.
I can't remember the last time Lowko posted a vid in which Zerg actually won the series. I think it's been like, 2 months now.
Yeah for real lol, all I have seen is zerg getting destroyed by the protoss on this new patch.
Now that you mention it... It has been a while hasn't it?
@@LowkoTV Nah the Overseer strategy against Clem wasn't that long ago was it ?
Didn't Lowko cast Shin winning a series of 3 against Byun just like, 6 days ago...?
Or was that a cast of match from before the most recent patch?
good spoiler thx
Ghost supply from 2 to 3, is a clear Terran buff... makes it a lot easier to make a Maxed-out army
15:14 Terran nerf whining is a time honoured tradition
I mean, as an ex protoss player (I don't play Starcraft 2 anymore), I would point out Terran Nerf whining is a time honored tradition, but Protoss' learned helplessness is a bit more time honored.
I present my exhibit, Protoss players making the joke that next patch the balance council will patch out the Protoss race. The amount of salt mined from my fellow protoss was huge. So much so they completely forgot how powerful being able to give energy to a spellcaster that just spawned is.
Being able to scout *EXACTLY* what your opponent is doing by minute 3 with a hallucinationed Pheonix is big. Especially as your final army comp is going to include sentries for forcefields, and just being able to constantly send a fast free scout is something even Zerg doesn't have. That's without talking about storms, said above forcefields, Oracles, the new Mothership being able to force out 60 supply of corruptors from Zerg just by existing.
The learned Helplessness of 'toss was appalling to see, and makes me question how I was back when I played.
@@Mikalent Ex-Zerg player here, so I have no stake, but agree completely. The new Energy Overcharge ability sounded HUGE for Protoss and I couldn't believe the lukewarm or even hostile reception from many players and casters. They focused on the nerfs, like the removal of Battery Overcharge (which was always a band-aid), and wrote off subtle but significant buffs like the Mothership becoming an AoE powerhouse. I think SC2 balance was already in a great place and just needs some creative tuning; and this patch is way underappreciated across the board. But what do I know, peaked Plat.
@@Mikalent The reality is that Terran have too many answers for virtually every situation, most of which are inexpensive for their time/cost/supply investment. Explain to me how it is that a terran's own widow mine can go off in their own mineral line, yet not wreck their own economy, meanwhile that same mine takes out mutas or an oracle. Terran don't really need to plan ahead, they can mass virtually any type of army they want and have it be viable against their opponent's build, regardless of what that build is. Hell mass marines can beat Carriers. How is that 'balanced' ?
Because if a Protoss makes Carriers against Terran they are bad at the game and deserve to lose while being laughed at? 😂That's like complaining that Zeolots can a-move & kill a dozen tanks.
Mutas with an Overseer can easily one-shot mines before they fire. That happens often at pro level unless the Zerg is bad 😂I'm not even what universe you're from where you think an Oracle should be able to counter mines as an army unit...
I'm not saying that Terrans didn't deserve the nerf, in fact, I feel they deserve a few more nerfs. What I am complaining about is Protoss player's perpencity to look at what is a *very* powerful ability, declare it to be useless or next to useless, look at a very powerful crutch, and that is what SBO is a crutch and bandaid on protoss, being taken away, declare the new, arguably *more powerful* ability to be useless, and that "at this point, you might as well patch Protoss out of the game". Because they lost the ability to turtle the entire early and mid game. At least with Zerg and Terran, they have move onto the map and actually commit to harass their opponent, as compared to even high level Protoss who primarily play defensively and around their Nexi.
Terran players whining about the ghost nerf is the perfect "terran players moment"
how now counter mass ultras? Only liberators
3:00 "your follow-up attacks are gonna hit quite a bit harder"
Would that be ..like a truck? 😉
15:25 Not a 30 minute game but Maru vs Astrea got to the point where those 10 ghosts eating up 10 extra supply seemed to have an impact on Maru at 200/200.
If they removed Muta from the game nobody would even notice. 2 widow mines, a parasitic bomb, a fungal, some stalkers… will kill 20 mutas… not worth the risk. They are made of paper and tickle.
Edit: Making a group of 5 can be done multiple times. A lair isn't a muta-specific, and a spire is needed for corruptors.
32:30 Muta's are overproduced in most games. They're best used in groups of 5 to cut off reinforcements or harassing workers. Rogue had 11 muta's here when 5 would be enough to do what he wanted to do with them.
@@Fishbro you forget the upfront cost of making mutas, which is 200/200 for the spire and 150/100 for the lair. So making only 5 is usually not worth it
@@Fishbro and 1 widow mine along that reinforcement route would have killed every single Muta in 1 shot.
But how do you really balance themm if they tank too much in hands like reynor mutas would be impossible to kill. Lowerimg the cost causes the same issue, good micro save a lot of them, so u have way too many and becomes almost impossible to counter. Not so easy kiddos
agree muta, with mutas you can throw away more games than you can finish.
which is better? Sh or mutas?
with the speed nerf for ultras they are now just to slow, they just get stutter stepped to death. :(
Ghost nerf can definitely more be seen in the late game when they doing have enough Vikings with toss. Winters game with astrea recently was a great example in afew games.
i love that part of the video where Lowko is going off about the ghost nerf, and we just chillin, watching banshees cruise around the map
Many of the Zerg issues could be solved if the baneling nest allowed to create scourge from lings. ( Flying bane from sc1). That would allow to drop the nerd hammer on the queen
this new patch is so shitty, zerg always loses
Inb4 another Serral year
A single muta cost 100/100 and has less DPS than a single zergling. wtf would you make them. Mobility is useless if all they do is tickle. Make mutas great again
zdps, expensive, hard to tech into, basically melee range, have essentially 0 hp, requires a 2nd brain to micro correctly, yea they are quite bad, mobility can only take a unit so far.
i find theyre quite useful in low masters. if you can have 2 ling groups and a muta group you will get damage somewhere. mobility is king if youre not defending, and youre also smarter or faster.
but also at the same time. you can build hydras instead and not lose 3000/3000 to 3 75/25 mines. so.
@@kurt7937 if rogue can't get value I dont think I will
@@Kiennguyen22360 you arent in the professional starcraft 2 scene. which means neither is your opponent. i can get value in masters. it is harder than hydras, much more rewarding tho. i feel like a sexy beast. it is zergs theoretical strongest comp. just weak versus thors and pre 8 tank pushes.
28:00 For some reason, it's kinda cute to see 2 Zerglings just hopping along. 😊
Mutas were so fun in Broodwar and early SC2, I feel sad that everything counters mutas now.
IMO the problem with mutas isn't the actual muta stats, it's the fact that Spire is 200/200. That is a heavy weight to carry in midgame!
I'm actually curious how good Mutas would be if they came from a 100/100 Lesser Spire, with a 100/100 upgrade to Spire (prereq for corruptors).
The spire takes 4 months to build too
Thors do the same damage to mutas, what's changed is the damage to armored so they're better against voidrays, liberators and vikings
You are correct regarding the damage, but the splash seemed to have increased as well.
"Thor. Explosive Payload (“splash mode”) Damage is increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 8 (+4 vs light). Explosive Payload Splash Radius is increased from 0.5 with 100% splash damage to 0.5 with 100% damage, 0.75 with 75% damage and 1.25 with 50% damage. Explosive Payload Attack Range is decreased from 10 to 7."
Which makes them better vs mutas, if they are in range ofc, which is harder.
Protecting your Tanks with Hellbats is such a nobrainer, that I am surprised more players don't use it !
“Ghost nerf” hahahaha
That cc landing looked like thruster burn marks from taking off and landing. That would be cool to have as a little touch.
Mutualisms are disgustingly powerful! Not for straight-up combat, but for hitting the enemy's weak points.
3 CCs, 3 Hatchs, early 3rd Nexus, etc. got popular with the economy change (6 to 12 starting workers) ... I think.
Lowko I'm pretty sure the Thor isn't better against Mutas, it's just better against everything else. The patch notes say "Explosive Payload (“splash mode”) Damage is increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 8 (+4 vs light)." So since Mutas are light, wouldn't the Thor continue to do 12 damage to them?
is this 2018? Parade pushing? Poor mootas, cant even beat a style from the past more vulnerable to them
For a moment winning an 8 minute game i thought spirit overcame his slowing tendencies, then i looked at the video length...
I can't wait until we see a decent sample size of the top Zerg players on this build. Zerg looks a little weak so far, but it's so hard to know how competitive they are until we see Dark/Reynor/Serral.
Thanks for the video, Lowko. Happy Friday! ❤
Idea for zerg anti air... Upgrade to allow swarm host locust to shoot air. Seems a underused unit. Maybe they only shoot while in air or you adjust the swarm host like a thor.
Next patch, the game will change how it calculates supply so that Ghosts can be 2.5 supply to cut back on the "backbreaking" 3 supply nerf.
lowko first you said bleeding the opponent is fine but then when its terran you said its niche. i love watching terran seiges eksdee
Hmmm. Maybe instead of buffing stats of muta, they can make them cheaper? So that it doesn't feel that heavy of a commitment to the unit. I'm afraid if we buff there stats even a little the mutas could become absurd
So, the love for "black holes" is now called "Ultralove"?
Just saying, if the Terran doesn’t win this one… I’m crying alone in the corner.
I’m not Terran main. Trust
I never get why nobody goes mass mutalisk but does not add in 4 or 5 vipers with blinding cloud on the ground units. Whenever a terran masses infantry with a lot of medivacs, parasitic bomb doesn't usually kill medivacs outright but it will soften them up enough that mutalisks can take out an entire fleet of medivacs fairly easily. But really, adding in vipers during the transition to the late game rather than spending all of your gas on more and more mutalisks is much smarter and more effective. And while Thors are a hard counter to mutalisks now, Thors can't hit mutalisks with blinding cloud on them either. Finally, whenever mutalisks are zoned out by anti-air ground units due to their short range, viper abduct can help out a lot with that problem so you don't charge into a wall of marines and medivacs in desperation to kill a few siege tanks hitting your hatchery.
I have a question, which is the proper way to deal with those mutas attacking the reinforcements?
Buff mutas
Maybe the Zerg should re-evolve the Scourge to deal with things like the Mothership.
The ghost nerf was literay the smallest thst could have been done.
Personally, im still for giving the emp back to the science vessel. Also, replace the raven with the science vessel.
I never build a ton of ghosts though cause they need to be babysat.
Ans i think terran strategies are hard to change because of how the buildings work and how units are produced.
I overbuild spores a lot of the time now against protoss and sooometimes against terran. They are awesome for map control later in the game
Protoss still arent up to snuff in pro play i believe but at my level its a ton of fun right now.
The patch takes to long to become active guys. Why does no one talk about this enormous delay? It has become too long of just a waiting phase.
Are you saying that in game 1 Rogue got.. Spirited Away? 😂
Maybe 3 supply ghost should be a bit more expensive and have more energy. Would make it a bit weaker in tvp and a bit stronger late in tvz
They should probably change out those mutas with new unit , maybe campaign 😎
okay, so i wasnt tripping, you do normally put the soundtrack in, keep it in pls and ty
Yes mutas failed, but it was as much due to poor execution and planning as anything else. You saw how disruptive it can be picking off reinforcements. So you have a better ground defense first and then catch an opponent off guard with it? There's plenty of potential. Nice to see my recommendations being realized as potential strats by pros. Now to find that Reynor game you mentioned...
¿En serio ser tragan el cuento de que MMM con Stim es igual a la actual velocidad de los Ultras? Literal se ven súper lentos, dan pena. Ese nerf de velocidad es completamente innecesario, especialmente cuando es una unidad de cuerpo a cuerpo que no tiene ningún bonus contra nada. El no quedarse detrás de otras unidades es un arreglo, no un buff. Es como si el Coloso chocara con cualquier unidad.
If I had to pick 1 name who historically played the most games in SC2 in particular... of the bat I would say Maru.
If zerg players in balance council continue to stay quiet, the patch will drop and zerg will be unplayable in any even skill game.
I'm waiting for HellClone builds to return, I think it may be a little OP against Ling/Roach, leaving Z pretty well up a creek.
The original Clones were nerfed b/c they killed structures so fast Z couldn't even hold the natural.
@@SD-jf7nb I really don't think that was the case. Hellion with Cyclone wasn't a played comp before the ciclone changes. The changes actually were meant to be a buff to turn battlemech more viable
@@theorochocz6735 original cyclones could only be killed by mutalisk, honestly. They, paired with hellions could withstand any ling attack, they were good vs roaches, ultralisks could not reach them, because ultralisks are slow.
The ghost nerd is controversial based on late game. It's all about supply
Good ol' muta auto throw
18:25 wasn't this a huge mistake going in 15 seconds before adrenal glands?
Half of zerg's units are useless
what if hellions cost 100/25? Theyre the only splash damage unit that requires no vespene.
the 1st map is sick, wtf
Zerg is done in this patch. Time to just play mmm and tank
Can't help but feel that with the recent games we've been seeing zerg has gotten too weak since the patches, and not only they want to make the late game harder for zerg players, they're also fucking with our early game of all things. Makes me not want to come back to the game tbh, even tho the changes don't really affect lower level play that much.
Terran symbol spells Terra
I just can't take any terran seriously that thinks the ghost is fine, in fact I still think it's incredibly overpowered - delete unit spell that counters every larger zerg unit while the auto attack is good against light units, and a long range large AoE 100 instant damage against protoss, neither of those are okay IMO.
Yay Zerg games
When does the patch drop??
lessons learned.
Build marine, Muta keeps getting worse.
Why dont zerg ever make more static defense? In pretty much every game I see, a banshee or oracle gets atleast 3 or more drone kills. So why not just invest those lost drones into another spore before they are inevitably lost?
simply because it costs too much in the early game. example you build 2 additional spores -> 150 minerals + the drones (2 larvae/ 100 minerals for drones). and the spores don't help you against hellion or marine push.
Wasting money on static defenses means you get pushed elsewhere and killed. Zerg early game is not even "hanging by a thread", its in freefall, completely dependent on massive mistakes from the other races to make it playable at all.
I definitely recommend this if you're a noob, I like to have 3 on my main at least by midgame, one by either gas and one covering the larvae from Libs in particular, but also Banshee, Voids, Phoenix, etc.
This save s me a lot of my sub 100 apm (avg., 300 - 600 spike) moving spores around, but same for P or T, and things can't fly through your base while you're microing your F2 across the map, without being in range of at least 1 spore, turret or cannon.
A spore and a spine on most other bases, mostly to counter help counter mid to late game run-by's, DT, Zealot, etc., but Terrans tear through static easily, merely stalls Zealot, etc. so not really worth over investing, better to have it protecting your tech from drops.
Also, drop a safety tumor in your tech at some point, and put all Ovies on gush as soon as you get to lair so that when they snipe your Hive you can keep your tech from bleeding out.
Ovies will continue to gush after losing your Lair if they are already gushing.
Oops, One more: I sometimes spam a blind spine, on my 3rd usually, in a gap on the mineral line to discourage Hellion run-by's, maybe even s couple of slow banes on the mineral line that they often just run right into if they aren't looking - won't kill them, but they often freak out and run away. 😅
It's tough, they tried to buff the spines to help the queen nerf but spine rushes prompted a reversal. you need to make them stronger while slowing their build rate, like maybe if it had to be produced from the hatchery like a queen
Make Drones 25 minerals!1111
game 3 was a lot closer than lowko realizes. Spirit was basically on a 2 base all in, his 3rd was his old main. The moment rogue lost all his mutas and sent his banelings way off creep it was gg for zerg. I don't know if rogue underestimated the amount of marines still left or if he thought it was all or nothing there. Although i do agree Rogue expanding his 3rd towards terran was certainly an odd choice after going for a two base muta push.
It was relatively close, but the point is that it requires a lot of mistakes from Terran for Mutas to work.
@@LowkoTV feels like half the zerg gas units require the opponent making a mistake to win from your PTR vids. rogue is just playing hope chess on this patch 😭
MaxPax plays the most games lol
Showtime said he has likely around 50 k games.
I have 15 k and sit at only masters :D
I don't even play this game so coming from a neutral viewpoint of someone who has merely observed hundreds of games, the balance continues to get worse. It's not that it is getting more imbalanced toward Terran, it's that the game has BEEN imbalanced for a couple of years and every change made does not fix it, but adds new learning curves and obstacles. This does not help to make the disadvantaged races more playable, just adds time to figure out how to solve the balance issues. It's just a form of stalling, which may be intentional if they just want to keep the game in this sad state. Not sure why they'd do that when 2/3 of players are getting railed pretty hard and the third has to keep dodging minute inconveniences every patch.
Just fix it.
Zerg as a race doesn't function without the mutalisk, it's a key component of the race's ability to deal with air. Without it, Zerg is just way too easy to bully. Muta needs to cost less or for its counters to be toned down. Until then Zerg will have a garbage design that isn't fun to watch or play.
Rogue's struggle was unbearable to watch, could not make it to the end.
Spoiler shield! Like to increase power 🧿
queens is is sad right? why they keep nerfing zerg
Can you turn the music down a little lower...it almost overwhelms you commentary
this game was too close maybe nerf zerg a bit
the ghost nerf cuts the ability to produce them by 1/3rd. So while it doesn't seem that much on a single basis it compounds with each one.
Yeah, we can do math and fractions too. It's a small step in the right direction.
So 20 ghosts now cut down to 13± at equal worker count, although Terran is typically 10 workers down, while somehow being 10 army supply ahead before max out in a majority of games of TvZ.
I've seen Terrans come back with 0 supply of workers, it means Terran will be forced to make like 10 Orbitals every game, so a big adjustment eh?
At any rate, it's 10 fewer Marines, Hellions, etc., at even worker supply to tank for the 20 Ghosts Terrans need to win the game, could be tense! 😅
😶🌫
Not first !
3rd comment
You and Uthermal are just both click bait title commentators. Uthermal use to be better but lately boxed himself into his own internal thoughts way to much, all this "patch upgrades: less minerals extra minerals seems to be so much focus, it is hardly any major changes. 25 minerals here and there changed. Drones still cost the same originally. It's like 1+1 equals window. Shocking broadcasts IMO.
Everything okay at home dude?
U kay bro? Lowko is literally just memeing. Havw u watched the streams where he made the videos? You should 😂
@lowko From the way I read the new patch it doesn't buff thors against mutas. Since before the patch they did 12 (6+6) damage and with the new patch they still do 12 (8+4) damage as mutas are light. It did buff them against units like corrupters.
it also added more splash range to the unit, which is bad for air units that clump up like mutas.
@michaelland2504 ahh thank you I missed that part.
All I can think is maybe reduce the cost of the Spire and/or build time.
Broken Muta
Pls stop the whine train, The Ghost got already nerfed.
Queen mineral change makes no difference, as per most zerg changes they can very easily work around it. The number of queens a zerg has access to has not changed at all.
early game nerfs to the macro race has no impact?
It’s actually awful to listen to you cast any Zerg PTR game. Zergless games are the only tolerable recent casts of yours…
u know why he lost? he went mutas. like its crazy how all they did with zerg over the years is basically make the spire meaningless when back in the day every zerg went mutas to broodlords. but mutas and broodlords suck ass now so its all roaches/hydra/lurkers/ultas in that order as the game goes on. they cant take the mutas out of the game cuz then it really shows how shit zerg anti air is when u have a unit that can attack air and land be soo shit.