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"Chivalry is rooted in misogyny." The complex concept of feudalism, the relgious component, the social changes during the middle ages, the romantic look backwards and the general concept of ethics just brushed aside. Thumbs down for that sentence. Are you really a nerd?
Ascots were very trendy when this program was first broadcast. They were supposed to be hipsters. We hipsters thought they were pathetic. and I am sure the animation short cut had a lot to do with it too! Money is money, first and last.
Is Nebula filled with other Leftist creators, Or would you call it more of a "free" space where ideas can foster- Or are you typing "Sure! The correct ideas!" ... Reminds me of my brief time living in that dump, Philadelphia, Penn. "No! We burn the right books! They burned the wrong books- Well- well- it's- it's totally different!" (let me know if that's hard to follow) How does this schtick still sell?! Everyone who responds to those words, they've done it. All you do it alienate, but you won't ruin much for me, sorry It's kinda screwed up that you would have such a negative target and focus in the first place. Be well! Namaste.
I always thought it indicated preppy wealth. I mean, someone was supporting these teenagers running all over the country in a Van with a very large dog. The ascot is very upper-class looking. Daphne also looks pretty preppy looking Velma also looks vaguely upper -class. Shaggy just mainly looked stoned. Just a typical tee-shirt and jeans teen.
7:19 Pilots in WW1 and WW2 wore silk scarves around their necks to keep the heavy flying jacket collars from chaffing their necks while they were constantly swiveling their heads to look for enemy planes. It seems likely that soldiers were wearing cravats for the same reason, to protect their necks from rough armor and clothing.
They're also worn in a lot of areas with sand/dust to both keep sand out of the clothes closest to the skin, but also something you can move up to cover the face and protect it.
Another thing. Military uniforms of the day were mostly limited to officers. The common soldiers mostly wore whatever they could afford to purchase or make themselves (or their wives make) and that was hardly uniform. You needed a way to tell one side from the other so a colored cloth served that purpose. Tied around the neck, or an arm or the waist. Around the neck could offer just a bit of a protection from any armor they might be able to have or enemy weapons.
@@mmasque2052 This continues in the present day with hunting. Hunters wear clothing of a specific color (I think it is florescent orange) that makes sure that they are visible to other hunters so they don't get shot.
@@mmasque2052 Ironically, the period where the "cravat" becomes a fashion item is also the period where the French already have a standing army. Since 1622 the musketeers are equipped with uniforms, roughly 40 years at the time. In other parts of the continent, Swedish army manuals describe how many buttons your uniform is allowed to have in the 1690s. The 30 Years War was the last big war in Europe, where the majority of the troops were mercenaries, and this had any practical use.
The moment you said "Hanna Barbera cartoons were animated incredibly cheaply" I instantly said "oh yeah, they gave characters distinct collar-like boundaries on necks, so they could put head and body on two separate cels to better reuse existing animation".
there are also SO many animations errors. Like sometimes a character's sclera (the white bit of the eye) is there, sometimes it's not. Sometimes Shaggy's whole arm is green, instead of just his sleeve. And in one episode of The New Scooby Doo Movies, several lines recorded by Velma's voice actress but clearly meant for Daphne come out of Daphne's mouth! I love the original Scooby Doo with my whole heart, but you can see how cheaply it was made lol
@@kootunesscrewy I think that now there are many more options when it comes to animation which result in better quality as a lower cost and less time. Among them are CGI (which includes "South Park" which uses CGI to simulate the original cardboard cutout animation of the first episode. Due to this they can get an episode done and on the air shortly after an event), and Flash, which can take the place of cell animation (as an example, "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" is done in Flash and it looks very good).
I definitely think referring to it as Fred's ascot came along much later. As a child growing up in the 70s that was definitely a neckerchief. ELVIS, JAMES BROWN, DAVID BOWIE, all wore them in the late 60s and into the 70s.
@kelleyhughes969 its a late 60s neckerchief, yes a fad. Ascot is worn formally with a buttoned up wing collar and morning suit. Victorian daytime formal wear worn to horse races etc. Today morning suits are still worn but with standard ties and collars. The silk thing worn under a collar ie Thurston Howell III, is an Ascot or day cravat, and are informal.
Thank you so much for this. I briefly delved into the ascott vs cravat vs neckerchief rabbit hole myself years ago....wish this video was around back then
I thought it was going to be a kerchief 😢 But then I found out - kerchief is on the head, neckerchief is around the neck, and handkerchief in the pocket.
Funny aside, freds 'ascot' always reminded me of the 'neckerchief' that old school chefs wear and that I wore throughout culinary school. So i was well confused
I think I ALSO thought it was a neckerchief, thanks to Boy Scouts. They're tied pretty much the exact same way, the main difference being that they aren't tucked in and have a small metal ring you put on that keeps them in place.
In Croatia we have a legend for the creation of the cravat. The story basically goes that a lady really missed her husband (he was a soldier) whenever he would go to fight and then one time before he left to leave him something to remember her by, she tied her handkerchief around his neck and he just left it there.
i never thought my strange love of the 30 year war would EVER somehow tie into my love of scooby. i always knew those 1632 books weren't a waste of time
Well...he's not. By 1985 he was out of date...because he's clueless. I mean look at what Shag and Daph were wearing in 13 Ghosts. Fred's 1998 look fits in better with that while his 1999-2001 designs fit better with the 1990's fashions. I guess Freddy's actually the most retro when you think about it, but he really can't pull the retro look off as well as Velma. I mean the only times aside from minor modernizations that Velma's outfit actually changed were Pup (and even then that was just a color swap with a neat sweater vest plopped over it) and Alien Invaders in 2000 and she only looked like she actually changed clothes in Alien Invaders with the sneakers, shorts and for once...a plain orange t-shirt.
@@KhanaHatake scarf.. red. Not ascot. One eye in the mirror? Ya.. Shaggy and Scooby had some "sketchy" solutions and a voice of reason, although often a bit "off the mark" did not mean he was prone to to a celebratory ""Gavotte". He drove a van... the red scarf kept his neck warm..
@@WizuhWilson-r2k Look it just doesn't work. People have shipping preferences...and if it wasn't that horrible Max show that flanderized the entire Mystery Inc. team I wouldn't be as bothered by it...because it's simply "Mindy Kaling writing a self-insert fic" and that is just weird. Velma and Daphne being Les is not the issue here, it's the way it was handled. The Les thing was handled better in Trick or Treat Scooby-Doo and Mystery Inc. where Velma had a love interest outside the gang...although she did have a bi-tease with Flim-Flam in Curse of the Thirteenth Ghost as well...since no matter who you are whether platonic or romantic there is always one kryptonite form everyone has. "Bad Boys"
It's weird, actually. As a young kid in the early 70s, I didn't know and I didn't care why Fred wore an ascot. I just recognized it as part of his costume, and that was good enough for me. And it still is. I'll never wear an ascot, but I always expect Fred to wear one, dadgummit! Even if you call it a bandana, or neck silk. You can't ruin Scooby Doo for me, because I'll always have my memories of watching it on Saturday mornings as a kid.
Best part? When she did the necktie, it was both backwards, and somehow, the knot was UPSIDE DOWN. I LOVE it! Small on top, wide on bottom, the exact opposite shape the knot should have!
I think, it's basically the everyman's ascot. You can't afford that fancy neck scarf? Get a bandana, and tie it like it you know what you're doing. Fake it til you make it! (But I guess Freddy didn't make it...)
This reminds me of the time I went into work thinking I had put on a vest over my dress shirt but I was so tired getting dressed that I had actually put on a plain white "wife beater" and didn't realize until lunch.
13:56 For more historical pedantry, a knight jousting while wearing his lady's favor is actually specifically an aspect of courtly love. Which you can only really consider a direct aspect of the patriarchy (not that when it was put into practice there wasn't more sexism than you could shake a stick at) if you follow it's etymological origin and define it as "rule by fathers" instead of "rule by men". In the most simplified form, it was a literary trope/cultural practice in medieval courts about married people flirting with people who weren't their spouses because everyone, both men and women; were likely to be in forced marriages due to their social class.
And the reason the term's been "courtly love" and not "medieval love" is because during the era of knights and jousting being common it was mainly the upper classes, like those who were in royal | noble courts, who were so typically in forced marriages arranged to get both families more stuff they wanted and look good while doing so. Lower-class people were a lot more likely to be able to marry at least partially out of genuinely wanting to marry and spend their lives with the other person since there weren't any huge fortunes, armies or swaths of land at stake if they didn't marry "well" enough.
@@spencerowensrichey Yeah, with nobility, marriage was more of a thing of politics/business for things. A lot of the courtly love thing seems to be more of a reaction to that by the people forced into it.
@@Missingno0479 Boy you are struggling with literacy. OP is agreeing with Scott lmao. And both are right. Chivalry is patriarchal which is misogynistic.
This had everything I could possibly want. A peek behind the curtain at how animation works, and the shortcuts that creates! Cool fashion history done through a cultural lense! Dunking on the weird stuff rich people do! All of it excellent. Also, have to give you props for absolutely rocking that purple ascot. You made that look great.
As a 60s aficionado I think Fred's look, albeit a bit simplistic in colour, works for a mid to late 60s psychedelic swinging london look. I was watching a documentary here on TH-cam about The End just yesterday and they were sporting the same type of cravat/scarf + shirt combo in 1968/69; although in various prints and jewel tones. Makes sense with differentiating characters and keeping it cheap, I guess.
And speaking of mod culture, it is a bit counterintuitive but the rebellion was indeed about looking smart. Mods were usually working class kids who had very low prospects of climbing the social ladder of very classist, rigid Great Britain, but because of the economic boom after WWII they were the first generation of young people who had disposable income to spend on fashion trends, i.e. smart Italian suits, so they were fighting expectations of class and gender (they were very egalitarian). That's the very superficial basis of it, mod culture goes actually deeper than that, but I'm boring everyone already!
Always fun to see you use Scooby Doo to deep dive into somewhat tengentially related stuff! About "cravate" in French, it only meant Croat in old French. Nowadays we use "Croate", and "cravate" just means tie.
Still not sure how "ascot" is translated in Fred's case. Would you know how they call it in French? I'm getting curious, and I can't (re)watch the entirety of Scooby Doo right now
OP Now that is a weird way to put it because Croats didn't exist in "old-French" times, they were pretty much created rather in more modern times, they are a branch from Serbs made by Vatican by none other but awful ways such as the old folks were unalived and their children that managed to live they got brainwashed into this new nation and new faith. And the word kravata (or kravate how ever you like it) is a Serbian word for any fashionable tie around your neck. Now another ironic thing in all this is that these newly made Croats that were basically a nazi army use to hang Serbs in both world wars ... and the forceful conversion repeated. Hence the original saying of brotherly wars. Slavs say kravata and in Greek too it's gravata but pretty much the same word as kravata anyway, but "Croat" is originally really said Hrvat and the etimology of that word basically roots to and means "a crumble of something" which if you read and understood what I wrote explains it perfectly that they are "crumbled pieces" of a originally Serbian nation. And to further explain on topic since Serbs predate so called Croats so as most Slavic nations even the Russians that means your "old-French" folks simply seen Serbians / Serbs the army of Europe basically that were wearing kravate. They were the folks who simply wore it and were NOT named after basically a word for a scarf or tie call it whatever you like ... because nobody is naming a nation over a scarf ... (unless you are a child or something LMAO) So perhaps a nickname existed however I repeat nobody is naming a nation officially a scarf, it would be extremely inapropriate.
@xityarxip Old French may not be the good name, since the domination is used for a specific period, but what I meant is an older form of French, the one spoken in the 17th century. Croats were very much a thing back then, contrary to what you seem to believe. You have it the wrong way around: the scarf was named after the people because it was worn by Croat soldiers.
@ We call it "foulard", which is what he is actually wearing. I think ascot doesn't really have a french translation. I've seen "cravate ascot", "foulard ascot" and simply "ascot" as is used on the french internet, I guess because it's primarily an english neckwear?
just wanted to say I especially noticed the polish on this one. interested people are interesting and I really liked how much it comes across here in the final video as a result of yourself and the people involved having so much talent and experience. putting in this effort over something like Fred's ascot is exactly why I am here
In the group that I run with (also historical reenactors) we use the terminology a little differently from what is described here: The ascot, which can be a long rectangular scarf or a square folded in half (often rolled to make it long and thin) usually goes directly against the skin (under the shirt collar) and starts from the FRONT (wrapping across the Adams Apple) then around the back, then again to the front to tie. It gives better protection from the wind and chafing that way. This style is also sometimes called a chabot, and is still common for horseback riding. A cravat is usually worn OVER the shirt and starts from the back of the neck like a modern tie. We sometimes call the neck-silk a ascot or cravat, but usually we just call it a silk bandana because it is too short, and wraps from the back. I always assumed that Fred wore a neck scarf Non-ironically because he came from a posh family. Also, I have strong association of neck scarves with flamboyant, eccentric actors from the late 70s. The fact that Fred doesn't mince around was why I assumed that he was ACTUAL posh not eccentric.
I believe in Polish, their word for tie is "krawat", pronounced eerily close to "cravat", so this lends creedence to the fact that the term used to be general and not only referring to ascots
I just wanna say, I love how the subject matter of your videos has evolved so gradually and organically that I didn't notice until now that you've become a fashion TH-camr.
scott doesn't even remind us Fred wearing the bandanna into battle is like the croatians and this whole scooby doo thing is honestly insane with the layers
Back when I was a kid, before I learned the term "ascot" I called it a neckerchief because I thought it was essentially the same thing we wore in the Cub Scouts.
I 😅once went to a wedding and every man at our table had a different neckwear on. It was so awesome. Tie, bow tie, ascot, cravat (the two fellows did have explanations in the differences, a neckerchief. Great conversations!
I feel like the re-addition of the ascot doing the stunt is an homage to Super-Dave Osborne. Who did notercycle stunts and had red at his throat, and sometimes a neckscarf.
That makes sense. I know who he is but I'm not too familiar with his performances. But it looks to me like he's also throwing it on like the old cliche of the world war I pilot with the white silk scarf that would throw it across their neck in grim determination before taking off.
@@Scalesthelizardwizard The redesigns of What’s New Scooby Doo always felt bland to me even as a kid, I know they were trying to give their designs a more early 2000s flair because that’s was the time the show aired but it just looks wrong, I’ve seen fan redesigns that do a better job at modernizing the characters’ fashion sense
@user-MellowMan04 the idea of WNSD was more or less to pull another 13 Ghosts and Pup, but not nearly as drastically. That said...13 Ghosts designs for Shaggy and Daphne could have still been used in 2000. I mean Shaggy owns one of the very few *Not-related to Operation Human Shield* Red Shirts...and the 2000's really liked the 80's throwback fashions...so Daphne could have used any of her 13 Ghosts looks...and Fred's ZI look really could have carried over too since it works as a New Design and also blends in with Daphne and Shaggy's 13 Ghosts look...or they could have tried to use his Monster's Unleashed look where he had that denim jacket, the orange collared white shirt with a grey Mystery Inc. logo, jeans and blue sneakers as well as the new wingtip hairdo and that would have left Velma and Scooby as the only ones without too much update...even though one episode and a Dove commercial really tried with Velma....I agreed with the idea of new shoes, hairdo and pants for Velma (since she's a tomboy-nerd), but she can't pull off cropped sleeveless turtlenecks or contacts...should have brought back the white glasses from a New Scooby Movies glitch and maybe changed her sweater style from turtleneck to maybe a polo style or crew collar.
I think it might be related to Shaggy inspiration, Maynard G. Krebs from "The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis." In it, any time someone mentioned "work" around Maynard he would exclaim "WORK" as a reflex.
when I was in primary school, my teacher would do a rabhlóg contest (which are irish tongue twisters) at the end of every week, and the winner would get a toblerone. the week I won, the tongue twister was “croch do carbhat ar crúca at chúl an dorais” which means “hang your tie on the hook on the back of the door”. when I found out years later the history of cravats, I thought it was so interesting that in irish “carbhat” is just the general word for tie. it should be noted as well that in irish “bh” is pronounced either like a “v” or a “w”
And here I thought the orange ascot was a subtle reference to the "hanky code" which would have been starting around '69. In case you're interested, orange in that context means "I'm down for anything."
For some reason I remember Fred saying that he stole his Ascot from his mom’s napkin collection. I don’t remember which show, but I remember him saying it.
12:25 I had to freeze the frame and type this. I have chills as I'm.. OMGWTF?! This has turned into quite the rabbit hole. Alice? Got a bottle of something for us, dear? And don't you dare tell us that cat isn't Cheshire!
The true answer is that Fred is the REAL inspiration behind Carly Simon's 'You're So Vain' - 'your hat strategically dipped below one eye/your scarf it was apricot'. Fred came in looking like a pimp lol.
Am I the only one who noticed that when Fred split the group up, he mostly sent Daphne off by herself and paired with Velma? Hence Daphne being "Danger-prone," while he and Velma make the big revelations together?
It's a scarf, I don't care what anyone says. In the 1970s a scarf around the neck essentially meant you were a swinger, and a comic at the time pointed out that Fred and Daphne wore them that explained what they were into
I absolutely hate how Fred's ascot in the 1960s was seen as just fashion but then everyone decided decades later that it's some hint that he's actually gay, or something like that. NO, it's just cloth. No secondary meaning. It'd be like if we assigned some kind of weird meaning to top hats or bustles. They didn't have any kind of secret message with the normal fits of the day.
Man you didn't have to go so hard on the root of Fred's ascot but you did and I am so greatful for it. Thank you. Kind of hoping you could cover each characters specific wardrobes to be honest I think they all point out spefic aspects of the character like velmas glasses or shaggys baggy jeans and loose shirt giving a more relaxed but hungry look to hIm
I genuinely never considered it as an ascot, I was a Boy Scout as a kid and we had to wear neckerchiefs as part of a uniform so I always figured Fred’s outfit somehow descended from Boyscout uniforms
Honestly, I'm a big guy. I have the frame of a bodybuilder (but none of the drive and sweat is icky), but if you squint, I look fit. But I'm at the point where normal dress shirts just don't fit. I have to find a 19-inch neck to not have the collar choking me. But a cravat... leaves the collar open. Meaning I could maybe wear nicer clothes than a T-shirt and not feel strangled and overheating. So... gonna try to rock an ascot next time I have to dress up. Very interesting video, with groovy history and explanations. Thanks!
You completely overlooked the use of the ascot to cover male actors' aging turkey necks throughout history. Esp. Tony Randall and even Sam Neil in Jurassic Park
Speaking of Tony Randall, in like 1973 he and his "Odd Couple" star Jack Klugman recorded a whole album in-character titled "The Odd Couple Sings", which I believe is on TH-cam in its entirety for those who are interested-friendly warning: it's DEFINITELY an acquired taste as music, and on that album's a parody of "You're So Vain" (the Carly Simon song) titled "Golden Throats" that Oscar sings at Felix because he's annoyed that Felix has taken to wearing a neckerchief | necksilk that's apricot in color.
@@devcybiko I'm not the hugest fan of a lot of the album-again, it IS quite a acquired taste musically, but Golden Throats might be my favorite song on it both because it's a parody of a song I like and because it's funny!
I always thought it was a neckerchief myself. Walt Disney wore them in the 1960s. It was a way of wearing a tie of sorts, without it being so constraining on the neck. I think the term "ascot" became popular when Robot Chicken called it an ascot, which set up the gag with Phyllis Diller saying, "Your ass got clobbered by this old broad."
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"Chivalry is rooted in misogyny." The complex concept of feudalism, the relgious component, the social changes during the middle ages, the romantic look backwards and the general concept of ethics just brushed aside. Thumbs down for that sentence. Are you really a nerd?
Ascots were very trendy when this program was first broadcast. They were supposed to be hipsters. We hipsters thought they were pathetic. and I am sure the animation short cut had a lot to do with it too! Money is money, first and last.
What was that documentary about dandyism and Beau Burnell that you mentioned
Is Nebula filled with other Leftist creators,
Or would you call it more of a "free" space where ideas can foster-
Or are you typing "Sure! The correct ideas!"
...
Reminds me of my brief time living in that dump, Philadelphia, Penn.
"No! We burn the right books! They burned the wrong books-
Well- well- it's- it's totally different!" (let me know if that's hard to follow)
How does this schtick still sell?! Everyone who responds to those words, they've done it.
All you do it alienate, but you won't ruin much for me, sorry
It's kinda screwed up that you would have such a negative target and focus in the first place.
Be well!
Namaste.
“A company that could look at a circle and still try to find a way to cut corners” is such a good line 4:06
@@epocalypsefilms and soooo relatable!
Grant Stoelwinder paraphrase
Agreed.
@@epocalypsefilms that's also called corporatism. But hanna banana actually had a reason to be. Cause they kept it cheap.
I love the “Scott analyzes fashion history and terminology through the lens of Scooby-Doo” TH-cam Genre
Love your taste! My favourite is the “Scott talks about an artist’s life and legacy” genre, but I also love the “Scott talks about anything” genre
No frfr
@kenji6492 right lmao this is EXACTLY my flavor of autism
I'm here for all the scooby doo discussion.
@kenji6492 💯🎯😎 so good!
He comes from one of those rich-but-out-of-touch families. He doesn’t know it looks corny, which ironically, makes it cool
I always thought it indicated preppy wealth. I mean, someone was supporting these teenagers running all over the country in a Van with a very large dog. The ascot is very upper-class looking. Daphne also looks pretty preppy looking Velma also looks vaguely upper -class. Shaggy just mainly looked stoned. Just a typical tee-shirt and jeans teen.
Im not even rich but id like to wear an ascot
@@Acorn905 lol, same. it looks kinda cool.
@@vickyyounghensley1269 Yeah, that sounds about right. I'd buy it as canon.
Fred is the ghost-chasing Kropotkin of our era
7:19
Pilots in WW1 and WW2 wore silk scarves around their necks to keep the heavy flying jacket collars from chaffing their necks while they were constantly swiveling their heads to look for enemy planes. It seems likely that soldiers were wearing cravats for the same reason, to protect their necks from rough armor and clothing.
They're also worn in a lot of areas with sand/dust to both keep sand out of the clothes closest to the skin, but also something you can move up to cover the face and protect it.
Good point.
Another thing. Military uniforms of the day were mostly limited to officers. The common soldiers mostly wore whatever they could afford to purchase or make themselves (or their wives make) and that was hardly uniform. You needed a way to tell one side from the other so a colored cloth served that purpose. Tied around the neck, or an arm or the waist. Around the neck could offer just a bit of a protection from any armor they might be able to have or enemy weapons.
@@mmasque2052 This continues in the present day with hunting. Hunters wear clothing of a specific color (I think it is florescent orange) that makes sure that they are visible to other hunters so they don't get shot.
@@mmasque2052 Ironically, the period where the "cravat" becomes a fashion item is also the period where the French already have a standing army. Since 1622 the musketeers are equipped with uniforms, roughly 40 years at the time. In other parts of the continent, Swedish army manuals describe how many buttons your uniform is allowed to have in the 1690s. The 30 Years War was the last big war in Europe, where the majority of the troops were mercenaries, and this had any practical use.
The moment you said "Hanna Barbera cartoons were animated incredibly cheaply" I instantly said "oh yeah, they gave characters distinct collar-like boundaries on necks, so they could put head and body on two separate cels to better reuse existing animation".
there are also SO many animations errors. Like sometimes a character's sclera (the white bit of the eye) is there, sometimes it's not. Sometimes Shaggy's whole arm is green, instead of just his sleeve. And in one episode of The New Scooby Doo Movies, several lines recorded by Velma's voice actress but clearly meant for Daphne come out of Daphne's mouth! I love the original Scooby Doo with my whole heart, but you can see how cheaply it was made lol
Ironically direct before watching this, i’ve just finished the latest Technical Difficulties video and this exactly thing came up there as well.
Wow. Animation for television at the time really looked so hard to keep up compared to nowadays. 💀
@@kootunesscrewy I think that now there are many more options when it comes to animation which result in better quality as a lower cost and less time. Among them are CGI (which includes "South Park" which uses CGI to simulate the original cardboard cutout animation of the first episode. Due to this they can get an episode done and on the air shortly after an event), and Flash, which can take the place of cell animation (as an example, "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic" is done in Flash and it looks very good).
Golly you sure know a lot about cel animation!
I definitely think referring to it as Fred's ascot came along much later. As a child growing up in the 70s that was definitely a neckerchief. ELVIS, JAMES BROWN, DAVID BOWIE, all wore them in the late 60s and into the 70s.
Yeah I think we can say with decent certainty that the reason the ironic parody era started calling it an ascot is because it's funny to say 'ass'
@kelleyhughes969 its a late 60s neckerchief, yes a fad.
Ascot is worn formally with a buttoned up wing collar and morning suit. Victorian daytime formal wear worn to horse races etc. Today morning suits are still worn but with standard ties and collars.
The silk thing worn under a collar ie Thurston Howell III, is an Ascot or day cravat, and are informal.
The real question is why wouldn’t he
The real question is who wouldn't he
@@alexanderweir2382 The REAL question is what wouldn't he
@pocketsizedweeb the REAL REAL question is how wouldn’t he?
This guy gets it
Because Daphne and Velma ordered him not to obviously.
I won't stop until I've analyzed every tiny detail from Scooby-Doo!
And that’s why I’m subbed
And I'll eat it up every time- can't wait for you to cover the nutritional value of a Scooby snack👍
I can get behind that. 😃
Please keep going! I absolutely adore the little details you note and research!
@@NerdSyncProductions please and thank you
Honestly i always thought he did because it looks stylish
I thought it was gay coded
Same.
Me, too! Stylish AND very fashionable for young men like him in 1969.
@@danielsantiagourtado3430 me too
Yes. Ascots were fashionable for men at the time.
HB could have chosen a turtle neck or tall sweater, but the ascot meant that he was cool and preppy.
0:10 I'm convinced you made this entire video just to make this joke lol
@@Lisa_Flowers I sure hope not
I don't want to waste my time
@@1201zj 😑😑😑
Ha! Yes! That sounds like Scott, do it for a joke and then get acutally interested and deep into the topic 😂
For some reason, I kept pronouncing "cravat" in two different ways so I hope that's not confusing lol
In your defense, I'm not sure which way is right
I mean, if we're gonna have an unconventional pronunciation where better than a video about Fred right?
Scott, you are a TRAYSURE no matter how you mispronounce it lol 👑
In Greek, we say "gravata" to mean "tie". Like a regular tie.
It probably soothed anyone who was bothered by the one way to hear you say it the other way
Every time I think, "idk that I'm into this topic, but I'll watch it because it's Scott," IT TURNS OUT TO BE A GREAT FRIGGIN VIDEO! Love it!!
ikr
Thank you so much for this.
I briefly delved into the ascott vs cravat vs neckerchief rabbit hole myself years ago....wish this video was around back then
I tried to translate this in my language, French, and had to stop because it seems like it's a huge rabbit hole, and I'm not ready right now.
I thought it was going to be a kerchief 😢
But then I found out - kerchief is on the head, neckerchief is around the neck, and handkerchief in the pocket.
Funny aside, freds 'ascot' always reminded me of the 'neckerchief' that old school chefs wear and that I wore throughout culinary school. So i was well confused
I think I ALSO thought it was a neckerchief, thanks to Boy Scouts. They're tied pretty much the exact same way, the main difference being that they aren't tucked in and have a small metal ring you put on that keeps them in place.
@@Cuiasodo If I remember right, the scouts one does have an optional version that doesn't use the decorative ring, but a method of tying it
In Croatia we have a legend for the creation of the cravat. The story basically goes that a lady really missed her husband (he was a soldier) whenever he would go to fight and then one time before he left to leave him something to remember her by, she tied her handkerchief around his neck and he just left it there.
i never thought my strange love of the 30 year war would EVER somehow tie into my love of scooby. i always knew those 1632 books weren't a waste of time
As a student of psychology, I think the intersection says something about you. ;)
wait so the random triangle bandana that i found that i said “looks like fred’s ascot” is actually the right thing
10:49 this is why I love this channel, the subversion of the initial question because that's what happens with research!
Fred wears an ascot because he's cool like that. He has to show Daphne he's fashion forward, after all!
Well...he's not. By 1985 he was out of date...because he's clueless. I mean look at what Shag and Daph were wearing in 13 Ghosts. Fred's 1998 look fits in better with that while his 1999-2001 designs fit better with the 1990's fashions. I guess Freddy's actually the most retro when you think about it, but he really can't pull the retro look off as well as Velma. I mean the only times aside from minor modernizations that Velma's outfit actually changed were Pup (and even then that was just a color swap with a neat sweater vest plopped over it) and Alien Invaders in 2000 and she only looked like she actually changed clothes in Alien Invaders with the sneakers, shorts and for once...a plain orange t-shirt.
@@KhanaHatake scarf.. red. Not ascot.
One eye in the mirror? Ya.. Shaggy and Scooby had some "sketchy" solutions and a voice of reason, although often a bit "off the mark" did not mean he was prone to to a celebratory ""Gavotte".
He drove a van... the red scarf kept his neck warm..
@@michaelfritts6249 Fred (annoyed): It's an ascot!
@@WizuhWilson-r2k we don't talk about that horrible show...or the equally terrible movie. Velma's not her type....and vice-versa.
@@WizuhWilson-r2k Look it just doesn't work. People have shipping preferences...and if it wasn't that horrible Max show that flanderized the entire Mystery Inc. team I wouldn't be as bothered by it...because it's simply "Mindy Kaling writing a self-insert fic" and that is just weird.
Velma and Daphne being Les is not the issue here, it's the way it was handled. The Les thing was handled better in Trick or Treat Scooby-Doo and Mystery Inc. where Velma had a love interest outside the gang...although she did have a bi-tease with Flim-Flam in Curse of the Thirteenth Ghost as well...since no matter who you are whether platonic or romantic there is always one kryptonite form everyone has. "Bad Boys"
It's weird, actually. As a young kid in the early 70s, I didn't know and I didn't care why Fred wore an ascot. I just recognized it as part of his costume, and that was good enough for me. And it still is. I'll never wear an ascot, but I always expect Fred to wear one, dadgummit! Even if you call it a bandana, or neck silk.
You can't ruin Scooby Doo for me, because I'll always have my memories of watching it on Saturday mornings as a kid.
When I was a kid, I thought it meant he was rich.
If the answer isn’t “ he’s secretly a swinger” I’ll be disappointed.
As a Fred cosplayer I wear a cravat the way Fred wears his so I'd say that's an authentic ascot but just tied differently
Best part? When she did the necktie, it was both backwards, and somehow, the knot was UPSIDE DOWN. I LOVE it! Small on top, wide on bottom, the exact opposite shape the knot should have!
I think, it's basically the everyman's ascot. You can't afford that fancy neck scarf? Get a bandana, and tie it like it you know what you're doing. Fake it til you make it! (But I guess Freddy didn't make it...)
This reminds me of the time I went into work thinking I had put on a vest over my dress shirt but I was so tired getting dressed that I had actually put on a plain white "wife beater" and didn't realize until lunch.
13:56 For more historical pedantry, a knight jousting while wearing his lady's favor is actually specifically an aspect of courtly love. Which you can only really consider a direct aspect of the patriarchy (not that when it was put into practice there wasn't more sexism than you could shake a stick at) if you follow it's etymological origin and define it as "rule by fathers" instead of "rule by men". In the most simplified form, it was a literary trope/cultural practice in medieval courts about married people flirting with people who weren't their spouses because everyone, both men and women; were likely to be in forced marriages due to their social class.
And the reason the term's been "courtly love" and not "medieval love" is because during the era of knights and jousting being common it was mainly the upper classes, like those who were in royal | noble courts, who were so typically in forced marriages arranged to get both families more stuff they wanted and look good while doing so.
Lower-class people were a lot more likely to be able to marry at least partially out of genuinely wanting to marry and spend their lives with the other person since there weren't any huge fortunes, armies or swaths of land at stake if they didn't marry "well" enough.
@@spencerowensrichey Yeah, with nobility, marriage was more of a thing of politics/business for things.
A lot of the courtly love thing seems to be more of a reaction to that by the people forced into it.
@@AzraelThanatos WAS? Nobility is STILL committing incest.
Literally the only comment I'm seeing calling him out on his misinformation to push his personal perception on feminism/masculinity
@@Missingno0479 Boy you are struggling with literacy. OP is agreeing with Scott lmao. And both are right. Chivalry is patriarchal which is misogynistic.
Hey! Now the next time they lampshade the ascot, Velma can correct Fred by saying its actually a Neck Silk!
well that’s easy, why don’t you mind your own BUSINESS, PAL?! HE’S A (bleep) CARTOON STAR! HE CAN (rapid bleeping) WHAT HE WANTS TO WEAR!
Whatever the reason may be, at least the ascot is fashionable.
Two things
1) I love how Evan was so excited to be a part of this.
2) “cowards and thieves of joy” is something I want to work into my vernacular
This had everything I could possibly want. A peek behind the curtain at how animation works, and the shortcuts that creates! Cool fashion history done through a cultural lense! Dunking on the weird stuff rich people do! All of it excellent.
Also, have to give you props for absolutely rocking that purple ascot. You made that look great.
I couldn't agree more with you!
As a 60s aficionado I think Fred's look, albeit a bit simplistic in colour, works for a mid to late 60s psychedelic swinging london look.
I was watching a documentary here on TH-cam about The End just yesterday and they were sporting the same type of cravat/scarf + shirt combo in 1968/69; although in various prints and jewel tones. Makes sense with differentiating characters and keeping it cheap, I guess.
And speaking of mod culture, it is a bit counterintuitive but the rebellion was indeed about looking smart.
Mods were usually working class kids who had very low prospects of climbing the social ladder of very classist, rigid Great Britain, but because of the economic boom after WWII they were the first generation of young people who had disposable income to spend on fashion trends, i.e. smart Italian suits, so they were fighting expectations of class and gender (they were very egalitarian).
That's the very superficial basis of it, mod culture goes actually deeper than that, but I'm boring everyone already!
Ooh, do you remember the name of that documentary? Sounds like a good watch!
Look for Yesterday's Papers, it's their latest video. Honestly, I recommend the whole channel
@@StellaMariaGiulia nah just fine with that wing mirror look, oi! oi! for scooter boys and all the skins on the street!
@@StellaMariaGiulia Aaaaaand I've already subscribed to them! The '60s are my JAM! :D
That purple ascot slaps
I was thinking "hmmm no I don't like it" up until the very end and then it looked great lol
Fred is literally the only reason I know what an ascot is.
Always fun to see you use Scooby Doo to deep dive into somewhat tengentially related stuff!
About "cravate" in French, it only meant Croat in old French. Nowadays we use "Croate", and "cravate" just means tie.
Still not sure how "ascot" is translated in Fred's case. Would you know how they call it in French? I'm getting curious, and I can't (re)watch the entirety of Scooby Doo right now
OP Now that is a weird way to put it because Croats didn't exist in "old-French" times, they were pretty much created rather in more modern times, they are a branch from Serbs made by Vatican by none other but awful ways such as the old folks were unalived and their children that managed to live they got brainwashed into this new nation and new faith.
And the word kravata (or kravate how ever you like it) is a Serbian word for any fashionable tie around your neck. Now another ironic thing in all this is that these newly made Croats that were basically a nazi army use to hang Serbs in both world wars ... and the forceful conversion repeated.
Hence the original saying of brotherly wars.
Slavs say kravata and in Greek too it's gravata but pretty much the same word as kravata anyway, but "Croat" is originally really said Hrvat and the etimology of that word basically roots to and means "a crumble of something" which if you read and understood what I wrote explains it perfectly that they are "crumbled pieces" of a originally Serbian nation.
And to further explain on topic since Serbs predate so called Croats so as most Slavic nations even the Russians that means your "old-French" folks simply seen Serbians / Serbs the army of Europe basically that were wearing kravate. They were the folks who simply wore it and were NOT named after basically a word for a scarf or tie call it whatever you like ... because nobody is naming a nation over a scarf ... (unless you are a child or something LMAO) So perhaps a nickname existed however I repeat nobody is naming a nation officially a scarf, it would be extremely inapropriate.
@xityarxip Old French may not be the good name, since the domination is used for a specific period, but what I meant is an older form of French, the one spoken in the 17th century. Croats were very much a thing back then, contrary to what you seem to believe. You have it the wrong way around: the scarf was named after the people because it was worn by Croat soldiers.
@ We call it "foulard", which is what he is actually wearing. I think ascot doesn't really have a french translation. I've seen "cravate ascot", "foulard ascot" and simply "ascot" as is used on the french internet, I guess because it's primarily an english neckwear?
@@Pakewl Yeah, that's pretty much what I got.
I also found "lavalière" but I'm not sure
just wanted to say I especially noticed the polish on this one. interested people are interesting and I really liked how much it comes across here in the final video as a result of yourself and the people involved having so much talent and experience. putting in this effort over something like Fred's ascot is exactly why I am here
In the group that I run with (also historical reenactors) we use the terminology a little differently from what is described here:
The ascot, which can be a long rectangular scarf or a square folded in half (often rolled to make it long and thin) usually goes directly against the skin (under the shirt collar) and starts from the FRONT (wrapping across the Adams Apple) then around the back, then again to the front to tie. It gives better protection from the wind and chafing that way.
This style is also sometimes called a chabot, and is still common for horseback riding.
A cravat is usually worn OVER the shirt and starts from the back of the neck like a modern tie.
We sometimes call the neck-silk a ascot or cravat, but usually we just call it a silk bandana because it is too short, and wraps from the back.
I always assumed that Fred wore a neck scarf Non-ironically because he came from a posh family.
Also, I have strong association of neck scarves with flamboyant, eccentric actors from the late 70s. The fact that Fred doesn't mince around was why I assumed that he was ACTUAL posh not eccentric.
I believe in Polish, their word for tie is "krawat", pronounced eerily close to "cravat", so this lends creedence to the fact that the term used to be general and not only referring to ascots
Order date 2022.....either Scott has quite the backlog orrrr and more likely, HE BOUGHT THESE FOR EVERYDAY USE! CAUGHT YA!
I noticed that too! I am intrigued
Bigger scandal than watergate, i wonder how this will impact the economy
Fred wears a neckerchief. An ascot is a very different looking neck tie.
It's more of a neckerchief... ;)
(That's what we called them in the Boy Scouts.)
@@thethirdchimpanzee it is a neckerchief just like the orange neckerchief I wore so proudly as a scout.
Never forget in Camp Scare that Fred wears his ascot because campers wore them at Camp Little Moose and he cannot forget his glory days.
I just assumed it was to wipe Daphne's ice cream off his face after he ate her ice cream and she got that ice cream everywhere.
*I WANNA EAT DAPHNE'S ICE CREAM IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN*
I just wanna say, I love how the subject matter of your videos has evolved so gradually and organically that I didn't notice until now that you've become a fashion TH-camr.
Please wear the purple cravat more in future videos. It looks damn fine on you and fits the channel's palette.
scott doesn't even remind us Fred wearing the bandanna into battle is like the croatians and this whole scooby doo thing is honestly insane with the layers
“Why don't you mind your own funny business, pal!“ Fred Jones, off set
Back when I was a kid, before I learned the term "ascot" I called it a neckerchief because I thought it was essentially the same thing we wore in the Cub Scouts.
You’re right. It is a neckerchief.
Always thought it was because he was wealthy. A nod to Daddy's money while he hippies out.
I 😅once went to a wedding and every man at our table had a different neckwear on. It was so awesome. Tie, bow tie, ascot, cravat (the two fellows did have explanations in the differences, a neckerchief. Great conversations!
I feel like the re-addition of the ascot doing the stunt is an homage to Super-Dave Osborne. Who did notercycle stunts and had red at his throat, and sometimes a neckscarf.
That makes sense. I know who he is but I'm not too familiar with his performances. But it looks to me like he's also throwing it on like the old cliche of the world war I pilot with the white silk scarf that would throw it across their neck in grim determination before taking off.
@ I like that idea as well. :)
Back in my day (late '60s, Oklahoma), they were marketed as Apache Ties, with paisley designs, go figure. I loved mine. Coolest kid in fifth grade.
Am I the only one who finds it uncanny when Fred doesn't wear an ascot like in What's New for example
It's like when you take your dogs collar off
@@queenoffabulous2156 Your so right
@@Scalesthelizardwizard RIGHT?! so weird
@@Scalesthelizardwizard The redesigns of What’s New Scooby Doo always felt bland to me even as a kid, I know they were trying to give their designs a more early 2000s flair because that’s was the time the show aired but it just looks wrong, I’ve seen fan redesigns that do a better job at modernizing the characters’ fashion sense
@user-MellowMan04 the idea of WNSD was more or less to pull another 13 Ghosts and Pup, but not nearly as drastically.
That said...13 Ghosts designs for Shaggy and Daphne could have still been used in 2000. I mean Shaggy owns one of the very few *Not-related to Operation Human Shield* Red Shirts...and the 2000's really liked the 80's throwback fashions...so Daphne could have used any of her 13 Ghosts looks...and Fred's ZI look really could have carried over too since it works as a New Design and also blends in with Daphne and Shaggy's 13 Ghosts look...or they could have tried to use his Monster's Unleashed look where he had that denim jacket, the orange collared white shirt with a grey Mystery Inc. logo, jeans and blue sneakers as well as the new wingtip hairdo and that would have left Velma and Scooby as the only ones without too much update...even though one episode and a Dove commercial really tried with Velma....I agreed with the idea of new shoes, hairdo and pants for Velma (since she's a tomboy-nerd), but she can't pull off cropped sleeveless turtlenecks or contacts...should have brought back the white glasses from a New Scooby Movies glitch and maybe changed her sweater style from turtleneck to maybe a polo style or crew collar.
For most of this video I was (metaphorically) screaming, BUT "IT'S NOT AN ASCOT!"
Thank you for restoring my faith in neck fashion.😊
Next video: "What DOES Zoinks mean?"
I think it might be related to Shaggy inspiration, Maynard G. Krebs from "The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis." In it, any time someone mentioned "work" around Maynard he would exclaim "WORK" as a reflex.
@@YourUncleBenis In keeping with the medieval turn this episode took, I kind of want it to be an abbreviated curse, like Zounds! -> God's wounds!
@@Eloraurora Yeah, like the Medieval phrase "Gadzooks".
When i read the title i was like oh yhea they did that so they could animate the head separately from the torso to save money
I always thought it was a running joke, Fred calls it an ascot but he knows it's a silk scarf.
I wish that it was silk.
I love you Scott!! Your videos lift me up like no others. Thxs for everything you do:,)
I still insist it's a neckerchief.
I love neckerchiefs?
I have never thought of it as an ascot. I figured it was the 70s and it was a neckerchief. Nothing fancy in that.
"my ADHD often stops me from even starting"
-Scott Nerdsync 2024
Same, Scott, same. Well, it's not actually diagnosed but there's a LOT of compelling evidence it's there.
My favorite fred joke is how every man insecure by fred mentions his ascot
when I was in primary school, my teacher would do a rabhlóg contest (which are irish tongue twisters) at the end of every week, and the winner would get a toblerone. the week I won, the tongue twister was “croch do carbhat ar crúca at chúl an dorais” which means “hang your tie on the hook on the back of the door”. when I found out years later the history of cravats, I thought it was so interesting that in irish “carbhat” is just the general word for tie. it should be noted as well that in irish “bh” is pronounced either like a “v” or a “w”
And here I thought the orange ascot was a subtle reference to the "hanky code" which would have been starting around '69. In case you're interested, orange in that context means "I'm down for anything."
For some reason I remember Fred saying that he stole his Ascot from his mom’s napkin collection. I don’t remember which show, but I remember him saying it.
Videos like this are why I love TH-cam, it's like behind-the-scenes on my childhood
Dude! Thanks
Well because of the ascot five obviously
THIS!!!!!! THIS IS MY FAVORITE COMMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!
"Humans have been tying things around their necks for, at least, years." This is the kind of history I come to this channel for.
12:25 I had to freeze the frame and type this. I have chills as I'm.. OMGWTF?! This has turned into quite the rabbit hole. Alice? Got a bottle of something for us, dear? And don't you dare tell us that cat isn't Cheshire!
Fred's necktie looks a lot like a cowboy's bandana.
Almost as sexy as Roy Rogers’ silk neckerchiefs.
The true answer is that Fred is the REAL inspiration behind Carly Simon's 'You're So Vain' - 'your hat strategically dipped below one eye/your scarf it was apricot'. Fred came in looking like a pimp lol.
...you're making me want an absurdist cosplay cover of that song now.
Am I the only one who noticed that when Fred split the group up, he mostly sent Daphne off by herself and paired with Velma? Hence Daphne being "Danger-prone," while he and Velma make the big revelations together?
That's why most of the time Fred would go with both girls, to make sure Daphne didn't get into trouble 😂
the orange thing had a name all this time? I thought it was some sort of scarf
"we should probably talk about the Ascot" I was ready for some mid '80s Honda motorcycle discussion. LOL.
It's a scarf, I don't care what anyone says.
In the 1970s a scarf around the neck essentially meant you were a swinger, and a comic at the time pointed out that Fred and Daphne wore them that explained what they were into
this.
I absolutely hate how Fred's ascot in the 1960s was seen as just fashion but then everyone decided decades later that it's some hint that he's actually gay, or something like that. NO, it's just cloth. No secondary meaning. It'd be like if we assigned some kind of weird meaning to top hats or bustles. They didn't have any kind of secret message with the normal fits of the day.
The real question is, Why don't you wear an ascot?
Man you didn't have to go so hard on the root of Fred's ascot but you did and I am so greatful for it. Thank you. Kind of hoping you could cover each characters specific wardrobes to be honest I think they all point out spefic aspects of the character like velmas glasses or shaggys baggy jeans and loose shirt giving a more relaxed but hungry look to hIm
I genuinely never considered it as an ascot, I was a Boy Scout as a kid and we had to wear neckerchiefs as part of a uniform so I always figured Fred’s outfit somehow descended from Boyscout uniforms
In scouts I wore an orange neckerchief like Fred’s. I loved it and still wear it because I love the way it looks and feels.
they're all dressed mod, though? mini-skirts and bob hairstyles are iconic symbols of mod fashion
Frankly, I never knew it was called "Ascot" up until now
Honestly, I'm a big guy. I have the frame of a bodybuilder (but none of the drive and sweat is icky), but if you squint, I look fit. But I'm at the point where normal dress shirts just don't fit. I have to find a 19-inch neck to not have the collar choking me. But a cravat... leaves the collar open. Meaning I could maybe wear nicer clothes than a T-shirt and not feel strangled and overheating. So... gonna try to rock an ascot next time I have to dress up. Very interesting video, with groovy history and explanations. Thanks!
6:00 “at least years” well you’re not wrong
I would have never called it an ascot. I would have called it a neckerchief, which sounds closer to what the reenactor called it.
They really do suit you, Scott! They should bring these back.
If you wore one of those your ascot kicked.
You completely overlooked the use of the ascot to cover male actors' aging turkey necks throughout history. Esp. Tony Randall and even Sam Neil in Jurassic Park
Speaking of Tony Randall, in like 1973 he and his "Odd Couple" star Jack Klugman recorded a whole album in-character titled "The Odd Couple Sings", which I believe is on TH-cam in its entirety for those who are interested-friendly warning: it's DEFINITELY an acquired taste as music, and on that album's a parody of "You're So Vain" (the Carly Simon song) titled "Golden Throats" that Oscar sings at Felix because he's annoyed that Felix has taken to wearing a neckerchief | necksilk that's apricot in color.
@@spencerowensrichey 🤣
@@devcybiko I'm not the hugest fan of a lot of the album-again, it IS quite a acquired taste musically, but Golden Throats might be my favorite song on it both because it's a parody of a song I like and because it's funny!
Omg “they would look at a circle and try to find a way to cut corners” line of the video😂😂😂
That orange piece of fabric looks like a juggling scarf to me. Used for both juggling, and by magicians to cover up whatever they might need to hide.
An ascot is tucked in
I just always assumed he wore an ascot because he got his thyroid removed and it would have been rude of me to ask him about it
The more color in the costumes, the more color TV sets they could sell.
it may not be an ascot by technicality, but itll always be an ascot in my heart
I always thought it was a neckerchief myself. Walt Disney wore them in the 1960s. It was a way of wearing a tie of sorts, without it being so constraining on the neck. I think the term "ascot" became popular when Robot Chicken called it an ascot, which set up the gag with Phyllis Diller saying, "Your ass got clobbered by this old broad."
I don't understand why i like your Scooby Doo videos soo much. I'm not that into Scoob but I always enjoy hearing you talk about it.
It's a neckerchief, fight me.
1:26 I don't flippin' know! I've never even heard the term 'ascot' until I saw this video's title.
You my friend, are very young
I always thought Shaggy had a prominent adams apple.
Scott, I truly believe this is your best Scooby-Doo video yet 🤘😎