ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2022
- I went full chad today to address the trident VS 2.4 voron debate. If you were linked to this video listen close!
if u read this pls sub
#voron #3dprinting #trident #2.4 #cnc #building #fyp #fypシ
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► Outro Music: iniko - i will be one of the greatest ($UMMER$ REMIX) - บันเทิง
Don't build a v0 as your first voron. It is a far more tedious and frustrating build.
I think the trident is a no brainer recommendation. No point in building the others unless you really know what you're doing and why you want them.
I want to disagree having build v0 as my first printer build ever. it is a bit complicated but the small size makes it way easier to handle, like you can flip it around 20+ times during the build and not complaining. also for me I get pif parts and ldo kit so debugging is simply not necessary and I end up building it in a day even after making one of the more annoying mistake requiring me to take apart the toolhead
on top of that it prints fast. in the 15 days since I build it I have printed all backup parts for itself, parts for v2.4 that I am about to build, and parts for a 6ch ERCF MMU
stop. shaking. the camera.
tripod next voron vid I promise :)
no
I've built both as well. I agree 100%. I love them both. The Trident was an easier build and I have found no difference in print quality. However, because I added the Klicky and Klipperscreen mods to my Trident it is pretty much my goto printer (I'll be adding both mods to my 2.4 soon.) In any case, if you are wavering between building one or the other -- my guess is that you won't be satisfied until you have both.
Yeah thats a fact I still have no klicky but love both my boys I couldn't live without either of them!
100% agree. My first build was a V0 (you can think of it as a small trident) which wasn't too bad, got it up and running, but it took me forever to fix ringing, VFA's, loose bolts, etc. The V0 is so small and compact, everything is crammed together, and some repairs and tweaks often mean tearing down structural stuff, and then going to have to do all the calibration all over again. Afterwards I built a V2.4 350 R2 and it works great, better than the V0, but there are a lot of things to look at. I want a trident now.
Technically the trident would be able to do planer printing better as it’s 3 point bed mount is less constrained then the 4 point gantry of the 2.4
Interesting I was under the impression that the four point gantry would give the 2.4 more precision with the ability to lift from a single corner at a time etc! Something tells me that the lead screws on the trident wouldn't like be offset as much but it is still on the ball joint!
@@Jandodev the issue with lifting only one corner is then the gantry is now out of square which creates additional friction in the motion system and can damage linear bearings. also why it’s important to have as flat as possible print bed as a warped bed can damage the motion system as it squares the gantry to the bed instead of the other way around
@@Experimentalhobbyist Yeah that makes sense I was thinking more along the lines of couple mm :) but your so right the trident would be better!
trident/salad fork should technically be faster than the 2.4 due to the static gantry. People just didnt do a speed benchy with it. lots of people did records on the zero though.
ps. dr d-flo built a 1000mm cubed printer. same concept at the 2.4
Thank you for explaining the difference I was confused 😊
Dude, thanks for the no BS assessment. I was up in the air, 50/50. Trident it is!
Eyy ty and trust me you wont regret it! Building a voron is one of the best things I've ever done!
@@Jandodev looking forward to it. I ordered a mk3 clone to see how I'll enjoy screwing with it, and because I needed another printer fast. This thing will pay itself off quick and then I'll buy the Trident kit. Are yours LDO or Formbot? I watch Thomas Sanladerer and CNC Kitchen on YT, and Tom's 2.4 was a formbot. That dude I trust 100%
@@DustinGorman Formbot I wish I had LDO but IMO its all gucci printing for the most part the formbot kit will do but the LDO everything is perfect!
Thanks for the quick explanation!
It's surprisingly difficult to find objective side-by-side comparisons -- I love the concept & ecosystem, but the Voron Design website doesn't do a particular good job of explaining the "why & what" of each design, and most reviewers will of course build only one system and thus already have a bias towards their system of choice.
Also, for people who are new to sourcing & customized building: I've personally just started building Rolohaun's "Rook", a mini barebones CoreXY ultra-budget (~$200) machine, and it's a great design to understand the "foundation" of printer design.
Interesting and yeah I agree I'll have to take a look!
Nice content - I was 99% wanting the 2.4 before but I'm now 50/50. One thing you didn't talk about which may be a deciding factor is centre of mass being higher on the Trident and vibrations. I print in a garden room with a wooden floor that has a bit of movement in it. I'm worried about vibrations and quality, but not looking to print at stupid speeds. Do you notice any wobble differences in the two printing at daily quality speeds?
For the most part the vibrations are negalaible! Buuuut that's the best part about the newer versions of klipper there's input shaping now to damp them! Ive been running them both on the floor/concrete block which TBH takes most of the vibrations out. Same for the ender3 like printers. I'd say depending on if you can get one throw a cheap concrete block under it in that space over the wood and it would be perfect! but if that's not an option I haven't seen really anything over vibration wise on the trident but I do run it at relatively sain speeds :)
Great listen. Cam too shaky!
I don't understand why the 2.4 can be faster than the trident? The flying gantry seems harder to drive quickly, especially with input shaping.
I just don't understand, what could be and advantage of having 4 Z axes, while having 3 is already enough? the 2.4 is great, sure, but the trident offers all the necessary to do basically whatever you can think of, and more.
If you have a reason why the 2.4 would be worth more to build over a trident, please tell me
Lower centre of mass completely changes the vibration characteristics of the printer.
^^^ If speed is your game the 2.4 can be better but both can use input shaping now so unless your pushing pushing there basically the same :)
@@Jandodev Do you have experience when the quality seperates both? What speeds and accel are we talking about here?
@@steilkurbler4973 Yeah, for the most part there the same, I stick to the recommended accels in the voron around 3k but I've ran at 500% speed before which should put me around 15k there tanks! Overall I haven't seen much of a performance difference when it comes to the lower speeds its all down to the bed mesh for the first layer then I get almost same results!
I'm currently thinking of canceling my prusa MK4 order and building a voron instead.
Do they make a lot of noise? Can they be used as a bedside printer?
Also how is maintanance after proper setup?
It all depends on how well you build it! But the enclosure imo makes it more quit then my cr-10 haven’t had a prusa! Also maintenance wise all I ever do is ptfe lube and it’s done wonders for me not too many non user created issues :)
The V0.1 actually isn't a great first build. It makes too many sacrifices for its size and the build has too many pieces that depend on others, especially the Z axis. The inserted nuts also suck.
Good to know I was under the impression since it was so much smaller and less parts it would be easier for newer people to voron to finish it!
@@Jandodev Yeah, it's counterintuitive but the v0.1 is widely accepted to be a more difficult build in the Voron community.
What sizes are the two printers in the video? Isn't the trident taller then the v2.4? In the video they look like similar height?
both 350 I thought the same but the trident is actually shorter due to not needing the bottom z assembly! But its only shorter buy like 10-20mm!
Since I already made up my mind on what i want a 2.4r2 for, I want one for 1 speed 2 build volume 3 it Looks awesome 4 stationary build plate, with a 2.4r2 i would have 3 different styles of printed, cartesian moving in z and lastly stationary
Interesting I'm going to have to look into the r2!
Big thing I haven't seen mentioned, it's much easier to IDEX a Trident you already built vs a 2.4
Yeah very true! I'm currently heavily debating building a tridex :)
The voron Phoenix is coming bro, you'll need to make room
So right I neeeeeeed one of those 600mm would be amazing!
Love the Johnny Bravo Jando
why didnt you show your friend tackling the printer??!?!
I wish I had that recorded it was too funny super hot got to him!
Hey which voron should i build?
All depends! But I'd recommend the trident to start it all off!
Where have you heard?
I hear it all :)
Chad Jando!
What are the bed sizes?
Both are 350!
The Trident will be hotter up high where the printing is happening. Voron's are great but I'd not bother with a 2.4 for this reason alone. Yea yea, I know they work. My temp gun tells me one is hotter than the other at the print altitude. Data rules.
True True True!
I did the 2.4r2 but it was just because it was what was available at my local vendor - if they'd had both I would've gone Trident because of the simpler machine like you say. But the 2.4 is a fun machine, the gantry going all axis is fun - not better, just fun :) More to tune and maintain though.
Why do ink jet printers work fast with good acceleration start and stop motion and are smooth? They use belts to drive the print head, but the print heads are also light weight.
If you want speed in a machine, belts are your best option, consider also that belts are also a low mass component unlike a lead screw or ball screw. So I go for belt drives for speed. It is a trade-off if you are used to lead screws but as far as mechanical complexity, belts are more user friendly, you can be slightly off on the belt alignment, but a lead screw is not as forgiving.
All these core x machines are using the wrong approach to the drive system. There is a far easier and better way. I have such on my own design, but I have yet to see something similar.
I agree that makes sense and interesting what did you change in your design?
@@Jandodev Mine is not a coreX per the traditional architecture, so I did not change anything, I started from scratch.
@@MarioIArguello Thats really cool! If you have a video of it ill take a look :)
Definitly Trident. Look at WP-DAKSH - an open source design for a tool-changer. On a Voron 2.4 it wouln't be impossible, but the gantry would always need to go up to the tools on every toolchange. Actually I have a Voron 2.4-inspired kit (Jennyprinter 650; 6050by650by650) with CNC milled parts (instead printed ones). Have not build it yet, but I already think about redesigning it to Trident style. But as the CNC-parts are very good quality, so I might use the 4 z-Belts for moving the bed instead of leadscrews.
2:42 Your printer has ball screws?
One take dont hurt me I said lead screw afterrrrr :) buuuut you could even smoother!
It could ;)
both are fast! one is not faster than the other... it all depends on how it put together....trident has smaller space to heat up then the 2.4....Trident is certainly easier to build and to me much nicer to deal with.
I 150% agree the 2.4 is hype and kinda worth it but tridents are my love now!
How does it compare to the X1C?
You can get it faster with same quality
trident vs rat rig v-core 3.1?
Don't have a trident, but V-Core 3 and plan on building a voron style printer. Vorons use 2020 extrusions, RatRig uses 3030 extrusions. They are therefore much stiffer and allow for bigger build volumes (safely). The kinematic bed is kinda cool and makes bed leveling nothing to ever think about. The bed gets angled exactly like the BLTouch says with the three Z-motors as it's mounted flexible.
Also the RatRig printers are kits directly from RatRig which is easier if you never built a printer. It's also a fair bit cheaper than most vorons builds.
I personally have no expereince with rat-rigs but I've heard about them a bunch but what lead me down voron when I was originally researching 150% was the community behind the design!
Is the Trident louder than the 2.4? It would make sense to me, because the gantry is fixed directly to the overall frame. The 2.4 gantry is of course connected to the frame with the 4 linear rails, but has a lot of printed parts between which could dampen the vibrations. I've built already 2 2.4 for work an they are surprisingly quiet. This is exactly what I need at home but I would love to build a trident.
In my experience they have a very similar noise amount! Once the panels are on their fairly quiet it all comes down to how loud your fans are!
You should build a swichwire and a legacy
Voron 0 is not good for start. That because this printer is so small and parts are small to and building is very frustrating
Yeah I've heard that a lot I think the biggest advantage you get from the v0 in retrospect is price. Everything is harder because its smaller but you do get the build experience!
Belted Z is Gucci.
Always Gucci you should see what some people do to these printers with titantium
thanks! only video out there
Duuude.. That shaky camera action.. Really needs improvement. Really like your energy though! :)
Eyy thank you :) working on it more tripod shots is what I've learned from all of the comments on this video!
Super helpful. Too bad my 2.4 is already in its way lol!
But yeah. Dude. Get a tripod.
@@thenextlayer Yeeee might have to 3d print a camera arm haha
Is there a permanent earthquake where you live 😂
Sometimes have gotten tripod since :)
2.4 is complicated for the sake of being complicated. Trident is a way better design. I also do not understand how the bed moving down is slower than moving the floating gantry up? 2.4 is all show. Its like the people with the bed slingers using a second Z motor for the dual Z. So you need to have dual Z control to level the gantry because a dual Z motor causes the gantry to go out of level. So then on top of that, you add a pulley and belt at the top to keep the dual Z motors aligned. Hahahahaha or you could have just used the belt and pulley and no second stepper. Nothing like creating problems and then solutions to the problems you created. But then you would not have all that added useless complexity to stare at.
Very accurate! I agree alot of it is show buuutt it does work gucci printing more tidents for life!
@@Jandodev yes, I know 2.4 probably prints great. It’s just the trident looks like it prints as good while being much more simple. This makes it a better engineered solution. Another benefit with trident is and auxiliary cooling fan will be stationary. With 2.4 it will need to move with gantry. I also think trident would work better as a heated chamber.
" I also do not understand how the bed moving down is slower than moving the floating gantry up?"
The explanation is that for fast movement what matters most is mass. Moving against or in the direction of gravity is almost irrelevant compared to the actual difference between the masses of the bed and the gantry. With the gantry being much lighter, you can move it much faster, despite having to also defeat gravity. However, the theoretically achievable speed difference between the Trident and the 2.4 due to this won't matter for most people, as almost nobody will print at speeds where this would come into play. The 2.4 seems needlessly over-complicated for me too.
@@kapa7197 I don't think the speed of the Z direction matters at all. Its the X and Y speed that counts. The bed only moves a very tiny amount down and only once per layer. I did hear someone say that the printers that move the bed shake more because the motion is on top of the printer. With the 2.4 most of the motion happens really low. This means the 2.4 will shake less. So I guess thats one upside. A downside of the 2.4 is that if you are using an auxiliary cooling fan, it has to move with the gantry.
@@f1hotrod527 It's not really about the absolute average speed, but about the instantaneous acceleration it has to do when having to move.
shaky ass camera work
Only getting better with every video!