Dr Peterson is a grifter who only wants to dissuade young White men from collectivising and standing up for themselves. He knows full well we are under attack daily and that it's become acceptable to demonise and disposess White men in society, and he has stated numerous times that he seeks to inoculate these men.
As a student studying psychology I only find James’ points increasingly likely to be true. There is so much wrong with the diagnostic models used in psychology. My main annoyance with my own discipline is the focus on “cure” and when there is so little understand of cause. We do not know what depression exactly is, we only know how it manifests itself. It’s completely contradictory and deeply infuriates me but at least I can use it as motivation to continue my studies in this field.
Putting Tate and Peterson in the same sentence is a monumental insult to Peterson. Peterson is an intellectual - one of the greatest thinkers of the last 100 years. Tate isnt fit to shine his shoes.
Most of the comments below have completely missed the point of James Orr's main insight, which has nothing to do with white working-class men. At the beginning of the interview, Orr rightly identifies that Western culture has undergone a change in the way it understands human beings. This is a move away from a shared, essentially Christian view of persons to an atheist, individualistic, and therapeutic understanding of persons. That change began to take place in the 1960s with the emergence of woke ideology being its latest phase. The ramifications of this change will be catastrophic for Western culture.
I thought I was dying lol, my GAD really went hard on stroke, or reality loops converging XD. On the real though, I thought there was a second playback that started up somehow. Until I skipped 5sec back to see if it replicated. And, went "No shot that no one caught this?".... "No shot no one is commenting about this??"
I actually think the white working class males who don't go to uni fulfil some of the most essential roles in society. If they came to Australia, they could rake in a fortune working on minesites, and indeed many do.
We all have a need for belonging including belonging to self, which is accepting our authentic self. Many people live in a state of self-rejection due to the perception of not living up to who they are told they should be by parents, teachers, society, etc. when we can’t meet expectations our inner critic tells us it’s because we aren’t good enough and we feel ashamed, guilty, and we blame ourself and others. We don’t want others to see this so we put out the persona that we are something we’re not. We put on a mask to hide the self-rejection and deviate from authentic self to “fit in.” This takes us further from self belonging and further into suffering. The further into suffering the more self-defeating behaviours, the more self-rejection, the more suffering, and the cycle continues. I help people reconnect with authentic self
Excellent from Professor Orr. I have also enjoyed his contribution to the "Exodus" series, hosted by Dr Peterson. Gratifying to have him represent the Cambridge University fraternity.
No-one would mind rational approaches if house prices hadn't risen to nine times the average annual wage versus two times the annual national wage fifty years ago. That is not rational and obviously affects the mindsets of societies with regard to possibility and aspiration. Those who have property see the social model working correctly (for them), while those who don't feel that they are being shut off at every point. The cultural issues are just a way of getting people to not notice what has happened to them economically if they are at the wrong end of the property spectrum.
not all psychology claims this positivist approach- some are more phenomenologically based and deeply informed by philosophy- this is common in health related issues and where the focus is on the experiencer making sense of what is happening to them- from this, we can develop good care mechanisms alongside medical cures. And where would we be without neuropsychological science to help manage some of the deeply debillitating conditions that impact so many people such as schizophrenia.
That's really shameless click-bait to use Peterson's name in the title - trying to explain what current universities in U.K. It was very informative, but Peterson was a side show. Define "psyche" and "mental" for us all.......
Unfortunately, Dr. Orr goes a bit too far in his critique. Yes, mental health may be overly medicalized, and the institutions associated with psychology and mental health may have been ideologically captured. This does not mean, however, that all psychiatry, psychology, and psychotherapy is pseudoscience. I would imagine Dr. Peterson would take a different view. Dr. Orr has a problem with "pathologizing" because it's disempowering. Okay, but denying a problem exists is also disempowering. He is simply wrong about grief and ptsd. No one is unclear when grief becomes ptsd. The question is about grief and depression (a question of diagnostic criteria, not a question of pathologizing vs. non-pathologizing). Then, the interviewer chimes in with his own ignorance, suggesting that anyone who is restless is diagnosed as having ADHD. Seriously? I have appreciated Dr. Orr's insights on philosophy and religion, but he is clearly engaging in ultracrepidarianism, and should admit that he really isn't well-informed enough to offer such strong opinions.
Extreme individualism killed off normal human interactions There is no sense of community and that’s the reason people so upset and deprived Liberalism is the worst thing that can ever happen
There ARE mental illnesses that are like physical illnesses, for example bi-polar and schizophrenia. However, what they are talking about seem different indeed.
We certainly do see a multiple models describing phenomena in the natural sciences, especially in theoretical physics. The various theories fight it out sometimes lasting over centuries until we land on something testable and repeatable a true consensus. Even then tables get flipped, new evidence comes along.
The differerence between rich atheists and rich reiligious people is that the theists believe that they deserve to be rich because because god has put them there.
If we exclude any individual from speaking for a group they do not represent, we would have excluded much of the content of modern literature and social commentary.
Not saying he can't speak his thoughts, what I am saying is that to advocate or express thought for a certain group, experience of the groups plight is surely a necessity. I could give my thoughts on childbirth, and even have appreciation for it, but I could no way talk from a position of experience or expertise on the feeling of or going through childbirth. Relativity is a valid counter argument, and I for one, would put his pov at the bottom end of a scale of people who have neither the experience or authority to speak on the subject.
@@gregmac8268I don’t think he’s saying anything particularly unique to working class people, I think his focus is more on suffering in general and the value of responsibility, which does happen to resonate with working class people.
To the extent that terms like "working class" actually mean anything, nobody can presume to "speak for" a class of people. Belonging to a certain group does not give a person the right to speak for that group. Not belonging to a certain group does not limit ones ability to say things that are true.
I agree that philosophy must be re-integrated into psychological thinking and practice. It’s incontrovertibly an archaic postulation, however, that all psychic suffering can be considered religious malfeasance. Psychology is of immense scope; so, Orr has no idea what he is talking about in terms of the pseudoscience comment. 99% of psychology is unrelated to mental illness and clinical practice. That very branch of the discipline, however, would benefit from a return to its roots - when dealing with existential questions, values, meaning; medicine, so to speak, is not enough. Science must be coupled with phenomenological, hermeneutic, literary, history and philosophical/theological analysis if we are to investigate human nature seriously.
Do people still listen to Peterson? I watched original lectures before he got famous. It was interesting but I mean it's not really that eye opening stuff. I don't get it... it's the same stuff over and over again.
He is talking about clinical psychology, not experimental psychology and doesn't seem to understand that psychological science does exist. He seems unaware of the range of psychological investigation and assumes it is all clinical psychology. My father studied perception: how the mind translates sensory input which can be studied using scientific methodology.
What? If he goes a sentence without name-dropping a philosopher, classical literature or academic psychologist, it's only because he's gone down a rabbit-hole of mysticism in which everything is a metaphor for everything else.
That's an unfair criticism. Philosophy and theology are his specialisations and therefore he uses words that are fit for purpose. Even my brick paver uses technical language. I had to ask him what screed meant and what the difference was between joint filler and brickies sand.
"My doctor used latin. He must be arrogant and stuck up." - sometimes big words aren't used to talk downs on people Mr. Critic. Sometimes they're just the best way they know how to communicate the argument.
I love his immense vocabulary as I do Peterson's, but both of them cannot think outside of their religious bias. They both conflate politics with metaphysics and epistemology, blaming rationality for the outcomes of tyranny. They NEVER focus on the rivers of blood stemming from mysticism and its religious cruelty.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse;it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them”.. James Orr calling Tate a repulsive individual is a prime example of a good man cursing an scoundrel. Enjoyed every second of this interview. Time to pick our next battle Decolonise Britain of American culture and influence.
A middle-class psychology professor raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars a month speaks for the dispossessed white working class. Keep coming with the comedy content.
Peterson grew up in a small, redneck, Alberta, oil economy town. But his genius and hard work propelled him beyond his origins. His deep empathy and work at the UN keeps him connected to the working class.
This guy is profoundly mistaken. He has rose-tinted nostalgia for the darkness of religious totalism and straw man’s modern scientific understanding of our nature. Read Dr Gabor Mate and look into the biopsychosocial model…
Dr Peterson is a breathe of fresh air in a putrid material world.
Dr Peterson is a grifter who only wants to dissuade young White men from collectivising and standing up for themselves. He knows full well we are under attack daily and that it's become acceptable to demonise and disposess White men in society, and he has stated numerous times that he seeks to inoculate these men.
As a student studying psychology I only find James’ points increasingly likely to be true. There is so much wrong with the diagnostic models used in psychology. My main annoyance with my own discipline is the focus on “cure” and when there is so little understand of cause. We do not know what depression exactly is, we only know how it manifests itself. It’s completely contradictory and deeply infuriates me but at least I can use it as motivation to continue my studies in this field.
we?
It's not a spectrum condition and has evidence based clinical features so it makes sense to use a diagnostic model.
You'd probably enjoy reading "Orthodox Psychotherapy."
No, we KNOW what depression is. It is caused by a lack of purpose, which orients us towards a vision.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Putting Tate and Peterson in the same sentence is a monumental insult to Peterson. Peterson is an intellectual - one of the greatest thinkers of the last 100 years. Tate isnt fit to shine his shoes.
They're both grifters embraced by the masses
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Spot on, mate.
'one of the greatest thinkers in the last 100 years' 😂
"emotional incontinence" 😂
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
The current social and main stream media trend of promoting 'influencers' and 'celebrities' is breeding narcissism.
Like Peterson
Since I heard Dr. Orr on the exodus series I respect him for his very calm way to explain what his views are.
Most of the comments below have completely missed the point of James Orr's main insight, which has nothing to do with white working-class men. At the beginning of the interview, Orr rightly identifies that Western culture has undergone a change in the way it understands human beings. This is a move away from a shared, essentially Christian view of persons to an atheist, individualistic, and therapeutic understanding of persons. That change began to take place in the 1960s with the emergence of woke ideology being its latest phase. The ramifications of this change will be catastrophic for Western culture.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
13:48 What’s up with the blunder in editing here?
I thought I was dying lol, my GAD really went hard on stroke, or reality loops converging XD. On the real though, I thought there was a second playback that started up somehow. Until I skipped 5sec back to see if it replicated. And, went "No shot that no one caught this?".... "No shot no one is commenting about this??"
I actually think the white working class males who don't go to uni fulfil some of the most essential roles in society. If they came to Australia, they could rake in a fortune working on minesites, and indeed many do.
so long as they remember their place, right?
@@josephd.5524 What place should they aspire towards, then?
@@deirdrefleming9935where they don't force the jab on citizens?
@@bloodstripeleatherneck1941 The mandates have now been removed in Australia.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Is anyone getting audio issues around the 14 min mark? It's like crossed over audio with both of them talking at the same time
We all have a need for belonging including belonging to self, which is accepting our authentic self. Many people live in a state of self-rejection due to the perception of not living up to who they are told they should be by parents, teachers, society, etc. when we can’t meet expectations our inner critic tells us it’s because we aren’t good enough and we feel ashamed, guilty, and we blame ourself and others. We don’t want others to see this so we put out the persona that we are something we’re not. We put on a mask to hide the self-rejection and deviate from authentic self to “fit in.” This takes us further from self belonging and further into suffering. The further into suffering the more self-defeating behaviours, the more self-rejection, the more suffering, and the cycle continues. I help people reconnect with authentic self
Excellent from Professor Orr.
I have also enjoyed his contribution to the "Exodus" series, hosted by Dr Peterson.
Gratifying to have him represent the Cambridge University fraternity.
He speaks for all people not just working class White men. His philosophy is timeless and ways to objectively improve your life.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Yeah this guy was really off and weird with his race take.
He didn't look happy with his intro at the start haha
Peterson speaks for Peterson.
He's a grifter, just found a way to make money
Fool@@joshuataylor3550
The Telegraph made that click bait title
Peterson speaks for the WEF
@@mightyconker3903 nice
Great discussion. + VERITAS OMNIA VINCIT +
Great interview!
Berserk ftw
Great discussion!
No-one would mind rational approaches if house prices hadn't risen to nine times the average annual wage versus two times the annual national wage fifty years ago. That is not rational and obviously affects the mindsets of societies with regard to possibility and aspiration. Those who have property see the social model working correctly (for them), while those who don't feel that they are being shut off at every point. The cultural issues are just a way of getting people to not notice what has happened to them economically if they are at the wrong end of the property spectrum.
I found it interesting and enjoyed the questions and delivery. Keep it coming. On topic
not all psychology claims this positivist approach- some are more phenomenologically based and deeply informed by philosophy- this is common in health related issues and where the focus is on the experiencer making sense of what is happening to them- from this, we can develop good care mechanisms alongside medical cures. And where would we be without neuropsychological science to help manage some of the deeply debillitating conditions that impact so many people such as schizophrenia.
This is a very good approach
That's really shameless click-bait to use Peterson's name in the title - trying to explain what current universities in U.K. It was very informative, but Peterson was a side show. Define "psyche" and "mental" for us all.......
Unfortunately, Dr. Orr goes a bit too far in his critique. Yes, mental health may be overly medicalized, and the institutions associated with psychology and mental health may have been ideologically captured. This does not mean, however, that all psychiatry, psychology, and psychotherapy is pseudoscience. I would imagine Dr. Peterson would take a different view. Dr. Orr has a problem with "pathologizing" because it's disempowering. Okay, but denying a problem exists is also disempowering. He is simply wrong about grief and ptsd. No one is unclear when grief becomes ptsd. The question is about grief and depression (a question of diagnostic criteria, not a question of pathologizing vs. non-pathologizing). Then, the interviewer chimes in with his own ignorance, suggesting that anyone who is restless is diagnosed as having ADHD. Seriously? I have appreciated Dr. Orr's insights on philosophy and religion, but he is clearly engaging in ultracrepidarianism, and should admit that he really isn't well-informed enough to offer such strong opinions.
He is simplifying these issues... and chuckling. SMH
🙄 Where's JP? Please stop this guy from talking!!
The sound is messed up around 14 min.
Just say 'Hierarchical Victim culture' ?
I rather expected Jordan to make an appearance of some kind. The title was misleading.
Keep up the good work Steven!
13:50 overlapping audio put me off listening till the end, please sort it out as it seems an excellent interview
the audio track goes wrong around the 14:00 minute mark. i hear two voices speaking over each other.
What happens at 14:05, how is this talking over each other happening?
The title is false. He does no such thing.
Dr. Orr is a legend. Pick your hills well lads.
Seems to be a glitch at 13:54, they are both talking at the same time..?
So many leading questions
A bit misleading, Jordan never appears.
This title is misleading. Disingenuous.
what a great interview.. especially fascinating from an American perspective
Extreme individualism killed off normal human interactions There is no sense of community and that’s the reason people so upset and deprived Liberalism is the worst thing that can ever happen
There ARE mental illnesses that are like physical illnesses, for example bi-polar and schizophrenia. However, what they are talking about seem different indeed.
They are cured by religion and worsened by meds. Go figure
...and Jordan Peterson doesn't speak at all.
Very good interview I am grateful for the team and care taken at The Telegraph
Chad
We certainly do see a multiple models describing phenomena in the natural sciences, especially in theoretical physics. The various theories fight it out sometimes lasting over centuries until we land on something testable and repeatable a true consensus. Even then tables get flipped, new evidence comes along.
The differerence between rich atheists and rich reiligious people is that the theists believe that they deserve to be rich because because god has put them there.
👊⚡️❤️💜💙⚡️✌️
No Jordan Peterson. Misleading.
How the heck can he speak for anyone working class?
He is neither dispossessed nor working class....1 out of 3 is a fail
If we exclude any individual from speaking for a group they do not represent, we would have excluded much of the content of modern literature and social commentary.
Not saying he can't speak his thoughts, what I am saying is that to advocate or express thought for a certain group, experience of the groups plight is surely a necessity.
I could give my thoughts on childbirth, and even have appreciation for it, but I could no way talk from a position of experience or expertise on the feeling of or going through childbirth.
Relativity is a valid counter argument, and I for one, would put his pov at the bottom end of a scale of people who have neither the experience or authority to speak on the subject.
@@gregmac8268I don’t think he’s saying anything particularly unique to working class people, I think his focus is more on suffering in general and the value of responsibility, which does happen to resonate with working class people.
To the extent that terms like "working class" actually mean anything, nobody can presume to "speak for" a class of people.
Belonging to a certain group does not give a person the right to speak for that group.
Not belonging to a certain group does not limit ones ability to say things that are true.
His vocal fry is really annoying. Unlistenable at times.
A Philosopher called Orr 😂 nearly as good as Iff or Aand
Where was Jordan Peterson in this video?
This ain't jordan peterson lol
14:00 😂 just audio overlap
This isn't Jordan Peterson
14:06 what happened
#homopsychologicus
He really should practice what he preaches
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Utter waffle
Shame none of us white working class can understand a word he is saying.
Speak for yourself mate
I agree that philosophy must be re-integrated into psychological thinking and practice. It’s incontrovertibly an archaic postulation, however, that all psychic suffering can be considered religious malfeasance. Psychology is of immense scope; so, Orr has no idea what he is talking about in terms of the pseudoscience comment. 99% of psychology is unrelated to mental illness and clinical practice. That very branch of the discipline, however, would benefit from a return to its roots - when dealing with existential questions, values, meaning; medicine, so to speak, is not enough. Science must be coupled with phenomenological, hermeneutic, literary, history and philosophical/theological analysis if we are to investigate human nature seriously.
He speaks Russian propaganda
Who?
America invade Europe afterww2 - Russian propaganda
Do people still listen to Peterson? I watched original lectures before he got famous. It was interesting but I mean it's not really that eye opening stuff.
I don't get it... it's the same stuff over and over again.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Keeping White people in their place.
He is talking about clinical psychology, not experimental psychology and doesn't seem to understand that psychological science does exist. He seems unaware of the range of psychological investigation and assumes it is all clinical psychology. My father studied perception: how the mind translates sensory input which can be studied using scientific methodology.
Yung got it. Freud was a pedo just like the current system
Fire the video editor. At 13.50 the audio goes off.
Professor xpto full of himself: Tate is disgusting
Andrew Tate: what color is your Bugatti?
What? If he goes a sentence without name-dropping a philosopher, classical literature or academic psychologist, it's only because he's gone down a rabbit-hole of mysticism in which everything is a metaphor for everything else.
That's an unfair criticism. Philosophy and theology are his specialisations and therefore he uses words that are fit for purpose. Even my brick paver uses technical language. I had to ask him what screed meant and what the difference was between joint filler and brickies sand.
"My doctor used latin. He must be arrogant and stuck up." - sometimes big words aren't used to talk downs on people Mr. Critic. Sometimes they're just the best way they know how to communicate the argument.
I love his immense vocabulary as I do Peterson's, but both of them cannot think outside of their religious bias. They both conflate politics with metaphysics and epistemology, blaming rationality for the outcomes of tyranny. They NEVER focus on the rivers of blood stemming from mysticism and its religious cruelty.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse;it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them”.. James Orr calling Tate a repulsive individual is a prime example of a good man cursing an scoundrel. Enjoyed every second of this interview. Time to pick our next battle Decolonise Britain of American culture and influence.
Ah yes, America is exporting the Authoritarian Censorship. Not the UK 🙄
"I don't know much about him but he's clearly a repugnant individual". A posh accent can cover up so much idiocy, eh James?
Tate would ask: what color is your Bugatti? 🤣🤣
A middle-class psychology professor raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars a month speaks for the dispossessed white working class. Keep coming with the comedy content.
Oh, thanks! It's like the Onion, right? Poe's Law is in effect.
The guys who did represent white working class are labelled as the baddies yknow.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.
Peterson grew up in a small, redneck, Alberta, oil economy town. But his genius and hard work propelled him beyond his origins. His deep empathy and work at the UN keeps him connected to the working class.
Jordan Petercult. what a nut
This guy is profoundly mistaken. He has rose-tinted nostalgia for the darkness of religious totalism and straw man’s modern scientific understanding of our nature. Read Dr Gabor Mate and look into the biopsychosocial model…
Ok. No he doesn't. I don't give him permission to speak for me.
Jordan Peterson is Anti-White. Controlled opposition.