How to do this without a GHD? You need the following 1. Anchor point for your hips/waist. A Bosu Ball, Exercise Ball or even an adjustable bench (lay crossways to it) work well. 2. Anchor point for your feet. Get a little creative around your gym, but even a pair of heavy dumbbells can work well. As for the Reverse Crunch, you can do this simply on a flat bench, grabbing onto the end with your arms. OR, depending how crowded your gym is, pull it up to a rack/smith machine to grab onto the bar. I'll record some videos for you and post to my Shorts soon! Hope you guys enjoyed the video, and if you want to train with Alec, you can check out his hybrid programs over at bit.ly/alecblenis
So sorry to bring a downer on this really interesting video with good exercises Eugene but the bit about adding weight does worry me because of my back problems due to heavy ab training when I was younger & dumber. I particularly don't like the look of exercise 4 with the recommended heavy weight - it sets up large shearing forces on the discs. I actually regard heavy ab work (including exercises 4 & 5 - they're not new) as being more responsible (than heavy squats/deadlifts) for my many years of back problems with several back operations. I ended up with total disc collapses at L5 - S1 & L4 - L5 levels and a further 20 years of neuropathic pain (a particular type of nerve pain) throughout the lower back and upper glute areas - this still hasn't totally gone away but I am back at the gym doing what I can and being very careful. My advice would be to see what benefit changing exercises brings before adding any weight But if adding weight is really necessary, i.e. your ab muscles lack size, then please just use small amounts of weight with small increments. I'd rather I had the fattest gut in the gym & still worked out than had many years of severe pain & no workouts.
@ozzy6162 Abs and core work for most folks, only requires modest resistance and relatively high reps. The keys to good results are strict technique, intensity of movement and consistency. It was said repeatedly throughout the video, that the workout Eugene did is advanced level.
I’ve been searching high and low for this type of content for ab/core training. Just got a Roman chair last week and was thinking something like the first exercise shown would work well, but I hadn’t seen anyone doing it. Great to see it validated by someone who actually knows what they’re doing. 😂 Thanks!
These are high yield gold. Seriously, anyone can just focus on this consistently for a lifetime and build a solid asset core both aesthetically and functionally
I cannot express how motivating and inspiring it is to see somebody who is incredibly fit struggle with an exercise. When I watch people breezing through their fitness instruction, it makes me feel embarrassed if I can't do it. Showing that exercises actually do require practice - and that not everybody is superman - gives me the inspiration to try it myself. Eugene, you are true gold standard. All your information is fabulous and you aren't ego lifting for clicks. Thank you!
It just means people need to raise awareness to gym leaders.. err I mean gym owners. Won't work on your everyday commercial gym, but they should be used by everday people who are not invested in using more advanced gear for their advanced needs.
Extending the "lever arm" is something I've done before throughout a set, but using it to make the eccentric harder, since eccentric capacity is always higher than concentric, is actually brilliant
As someone who does leg raises with weights x20 and maxed out every ab machine, THANK YOU! It gets very tiring to do weird set ups. It's not some BS cardio workout. These are just some cool obvious hypertrophic ab movements.
Alec's understanding of the human body is awesome. Explaining the physics of what creates intensity is crucial to helping people really get stronger and that knowledge just isn't coming through in everyone's content. Great video
i was just thinking through what the best ab workiuts would be and this knocks it out of the park. the main principles evrryone should be prioritizing. and i love the 4th exercise, rotational power and that transverse plane is so underrated, especially dor athletes. this and the grip video are gold, keep it up man!!! quickly one of my fav channels
This is GOLD. The fact that most of us (myself 100% included) cannot touch these movements with a ten-foot pole just shows you how much we need to level up to truly maximize our fitness.
That guy is a fucking gem. 100% (if I didn't miss anything) of what he said is in accordance with the current scientific teachings you see online minus the "abs are made in the kitchen" BS and his communication is excellent. Amazing.
@@coacheugeneteo I watched a video for targeting the lower abs and the exercise was the reverse sit-up. Now this makes sense why I felt my upper abs burning a lot more than lower with that one. Abs are tricky to figure out.
Hi Eugene, As someone who also does jiujitsu -- try doing the side bend, with your top arm tucked behind the small of your back, and your other hand holding a (light... like 8 or 10 lbs) dumbbell. As you curl upright, push your hand holding the dumbbell across your midline -- just like you're setting up for an armbar from closed guard. I love making exercises into Jiujitsu moves. Maybe you can do a video on as many of those as you can come up with?
This is great. I always struggled with finding a good Abb stimulus. Am sure to try these. Edit: welp seems I am too weak to properly do most of them Edit2: GHD Situps are now a staple of my gym routine
i tried this yesterday... i did like 9 reps, 6 reps and 3 reps and was utterly in pain. then afterwards, got the biggest abdominal cramp of my life ahah ... these are now part of my routine! good stuff!
this looks insanely good. I hate classic sit up and leg raises because i have a hard time feeling the stretch and contraction but this looks fantastic. Can't wait to try these.
These are all cool. But weighted cable crunch is the best ab exercise there is. No amount of GHD's will make your abs pop if you're not very low body fat.
Good stuff. Never saw anything from you before. But I'm a serious core enthusiast never skip my core and train it 4 days a week. Been looking for a new challenge.
Eugene Teo used to be so fit when he started this channel. He is still such an athlete. I still respect him so much for putting out content with some great minds.
Wow. First I’m going to need a few months of solid pre-core base fitness, but then I’m going to jump in the deep end with these. Thank you for the demonstrations - eye-opening!👏
I really like the exercises and the way you explained all of them. Please keep on making videos like these. Its probably one of the best abs videos on youtube❤
YES! This is PRECISELY what I was looking for! I'll add these to my routine (with some modifications because my gym doesn't have a reverse hyperextension machine) with my favourite: the cable crunch (the GOAT). Firmly believe that bodyweight ab exercises are a waste of time.
A tip for those cable twists: make sure to rotate your hips and knees first, and then your torso - learned this the hard way a few years ago with a full MCL tear from loading them up relatively heavy - 9.5 months in a full ankle to upper thigh skeleton leg brace haha
Love the cable trunk twist but ADD A BAND!!!! It stabilizes the weight stack when you're doing something "fast" like this with a cable. I started adding one 3 years ago and can't believe it took me so long to try it, feels so much better. For public gym goers, unfortunately it's really not practical.
With the QL side bends, I've found that putting the hip rest right below hip line recruits more glute med/minimus. Also I know he says hip rest leg in front, but I do it with that leg behind and twisting the torso towards the hip pad. This position I feel, allows the greatest stretchy in the QL muscle.
Twisting as you descend and untwist as you ascend incorporates Obliques training. But holding the twist through the eccentric and concentric is all QL+some glute. I do these fresh then Glute Med,Max,Mini kickbacks after.
The ghd stuff is inspirational. Didn't think about using them that way. The side bends though I've been doing it for a while and they make my obliques sore as hell.
Been doing full dragonflag for almost 15 years and very few things beat that. The tips on the crunch are little gems that can be applied to every kind of situps and crunches (it's best if you can fully extend the rib cage like in this video or with a fitball ). Doing all this plus the side bends always resulted in the best abs (at a specific amount of BF) for me. Training ABS very well makes all the difference in performance ad aestethics specific to a certain BF percentage.
i agree, the dragonflag honestly is one of the best ab exercises that targets your entire abs along with obliques if done correctly along with other parts of the body
My dad who is 53 has trained body building naturally since he was 15, he reached his genetic peak around 23, but the ONLY muscle group that ever grew was his AB’s whenever he was in his 40’s he started doing dragonflags and he has the best ABs I’ve ever seen naturally. Better than this guys as-well
This was good timing since I got the Nordic GHD from Freak Athlete recently for my home gym. I was already trying the reverse GHD/flag on its flat bench after seeing Dr. Mike showing it (as “modified candlestick”) with a 10° reverse tilt to make it easier. But I hadn’t thought to try it with the GHD attachment. Kind of crazy I’m at a similar ability on the QL raise, but I’m sure it helps that my upper body is much lighter lol. For those without GHD access, it should work with any back extension machine.
These are great exercises. Everyone emphasis lengthened porsion of exercises but abs dodnt get much love as far as I saw. These exercises are great for that. I did know about twist and sidebend but ghd stuff is new for me. Is there a variation without ghd?
Usually, these types of abs exercises in general tend to hurt my back even if I focus on my technique, it still hurts. I'm not a newbie I work out for more than ten years. but still.
Some good stuff here. I never do side bends and don't advise anyone to either though. They're bad for your lumbar spine and can lead to sciatica issues.
dont be an ass-->dont max out on them and you will be just fine (at least if you are healthy😅) you have to position your leg correctly and maybe have it bent otherwise you might very well annoy your sciatic nerve
AMAZING. ice to see some new exercises paired with LOTS of technique nuance. A VERY SMALL nitpick. I'm learning voicework (Trying anyway) Alec tends to up-talk the slightest bit at the end of sentences. It's very common and a subconscious way to not come across as intimidating. It's not even noticeable enough to be annoying. But it's noticeable. again, superior content. I just found you today, and you have a new subscriber. Well played Sirs ...
I know you dont do sprinting but i would love to see some content like that too hahaha ❤❤ much love and great videos specially these last months even better !!
I had been using cable twists for a long time but lately had to take a break because I was getting pain in my left hip/glute/lower back, and it was definitely them causing it. Maybe I'll try to ease into them again cos I do really like them
How to do this without a GHD? You need the following
1. Anchor point for your hips/waist. A Bosu Ball, Exercise Ball or even an adjustable bench (lay crossways to it) work well.
2. Anchor point for your feet. Get a little creative around your gym, but even a pair of heavy dumbbells can work well.
As for the Reverse Crunch, you can do this simply on a flat bench, grabbing onto the end with your arms. OR, depending how crowded your gym is, pull it up to a rack/smith machine to grab onto the bar.
I'll record some videos for you and post to my Shorts soon! Hope you guys enjoyed the video, and if you want to train with Alec, you can check out his hybrid programs over at bit.ly/alecblenis
please record if you can! highly appreciate it
@@nnnnnnnnnnnnmmm I second this!
We need a video without GHD
So sorry to bring a downer on this really interesting video with good exercises Eugene but the bit about adding weight does worry me because of my back problems due to heavy ab training when I was younger & dumber. I particularly don't like the look of exercise 4 with the recommended heavy weight - it sets up large shearing forces on the discs.
I actually regard heavy ab work (including exercises 4 & 5 - they're not new) as being more responsible (than heavy squats/deadlifts) for my many years of back problems with several back operations. I ended up with total disc collapses at L5 - S1 & L4 - L5 levels and a further 20 years of neuropathic pain (a particular type of nerve pain) throughout the lower back and upper glute areas - this still hasn't totally gone away but I am back at the gym doing what I can and being very careful.
My advice would be to see what benefit changing exercises brings before adding any weight But if adding weight is really necessary, i.e. your ab muscles lack size, then please just use small amounts of weight with small increments. I'd rather I had the fattest gut in the gym & still worked out than had many years of severe pain & no workouts.
@ozzy6162 Abs and core work for most folks, only requires modest resistance and relatively high reps. The keys to good results are strict technique, intensity of movement and consistency.
It was said repeatedly throughout the video, that the workout Eugene did is advanced level.
0:15 - GHD Sit-Up
3:58 - Reverse GHD Sit-Up
5:55 - GHD Dragon Flag
6:39 - Cable Twist
8:45 - Dynamic Cable Twist
10:33 - 45° Side Bend
Thanks for the legendary content as always Eugene
Youre doing gods work👌
@@whoknows8223 haha appreciate it
Not all heroes wear capes. Thank you good sir 🫡
thanks man.
I’ve been searching high and low for this type of content for ab/core training. Just got a Roman chair last week and was thinking something like the first exercise shown would work well, but I hadn’t seen anyone doing it. Great to see it validated by someone who actually knows what they’re doing. 😂 Thanks!
probably the best ab video online ever
Thank you! 🙏 Alec is an excellent coach and teacher
EXACTLY
Didn't Heineken make that video? 😋
If your Gym has a GHD that is :(
Totally agree! These are great, I'm pumped to put these into my workout. Thanks for Alec and Eugene for the great content!
alec: "up! up! up!"
eugene, not moving: "yeah I am"
that says it all
There's so much over saturation when it comes to ab exercise content and yet all this stuff is amazing and really cool. Alec is definitely a monster
These are high yield gold. Seriously, anyone can just focus on this consistently for a lifetime and build a solid asset core both aesthetically and functionally
Loved putting this together! Hope your abs have recovered by now Eugene :)
This was awesome, been doing the GHD reverse sit up and kneeling cable twists. They're incredible!
Ready for round 2!
I cannot express how motivating and inspiring it is to see somebody who is incredibly fit struggle with an exercise. When I watch people breezing through their fitness instruction, it makes me feel embarrassed if I can't do it. Showing that exercises actually do require practice - and that not everybody is superman - gives me the inspiration to try it myself. Eugene, you are true gold standard. All your information is fabulous and you aren't ego lifting for clicks. Thank you!
The GHD is a rare bird, I've never seen one in the wild. You guys should have included alternatives for those who don't have access to a GHD.
Just posted alternative set ups to the pinned comment!
MVP behaviour
I love to use a medicine ball!
@@coacheugeneteo Was really hoping for a video for the alternate setup too :) the text is tricky for non native speakers.
It just means people need to raise awareness to gym leaders.. err I mean gym owners. Won't work on your everyday commercial gym, but they should be used by everday people who are not invested in using more advanced gear for their advanced needs.
As a personal trainer myself, this is absolutely game changer. Golden knowledge. Truly grateful
The cable twist how do u not torque ur knee?
Extending the "lever arm" is something I've done before throughout a set, but using it to make the eccentric harder, since eccentric capacity is always higher than concentric, is actually brilliant
Great for push ups and chin ups. Drop to knees for concentric. Do chins with low bar and put feet down to take some weight on concentric
As someone who does leg raises with weights x20 and maxed out every ab machine, THANK YOU! It gets very tiring to do weird set ups. It's not some BS cardio workout. These are just some cool obvious hypertrophic ab movements.
Good luck!
Alec's understanding of the human body is awesome. Explaining the physics of what creates intensity is crucial to helping people really get stronger and that knowledge just isn't coming through in everyone's content. Great video
i was just thinking through what the best ab workiuts would be and this knocks it out of the park. the main principles evrryone should be prioritizing. and i love the 4th exercise, rotational power and that transverse plane is so underrated, especially dor athletes. this and the grip video are gold, keep it up man!!! quickly one of my fav channels
Thank you my friend!
This is GOLD. The fact that most of us (myself 100% included) cannot touch these movements with a ten-foot pole just shows you how much we need to level up to truly maximize our fitness.
Alec is an absolute animal!! And he transmites a pretty calm vibe which is cool
As someone with the elusive GHD machine at my gym, I don’t believe I have done a harder or better ab exercise.
Definitely the best core/ ab workout explanations I’ve ever watched
Did GHD sit ups today, and they were brutal in the best way possible
That guy is a fucking gem. 100% (if I didn't miss anything) of what he said is in accordance with the current scientific teachings you see online minus the "abs are made in the kitchen" BS and his communication is excellent. Amazing.
Wow, Alec is so knowledgeable and I really felt like I filled a knowledge gap by watching this video.
He's an excellent coach!
@@coacheugeneteo I watched a video for targeting the lower abs and the exercise was the reverse sit-up. Now this makes sense why I felt my upper abs burning a lot more than lower with that one. Abs are tricky to figure out.
This video is absolutely amazing, hopefully there's even more videos with Alec!
I have seen literally 100s if not 1000s of ab videos, this takes the cake.
And his abs, oh my god !!
Hi Eugene,
As someone who also does jiujitsu -- try doing the side bend, with your top arm tucked behind the small of your back, and your other hand holding a (light... like 8 or 10 lbs) dumbbell. As you curl upright, push your hand holding the dumbbell across your midline -- just like you're setting up for an armbar from closed guard.
I love making exercises into Jiujitsu moves. Maybe you can do a video on as many of those as you can come up with?
2 true professionals showing us how it’s done. Thanks guys!
So many fucking bots commenting. Anyways, Alec's core is absolutely insane. Like the only way to describe his core is "beautiful"
THIS CONTENT IS LEGENDARY. It is exactly what I was looking for. Keep up the high quality content Eugene! Thank you!
More to come!
@@coacheugeneteo Hell YEAHH
A follow up video showing adaptability/variations to work on “standard” gym kit would be helpful 👍🏻
Or a home gym, even. Is it not going to be possible to get to this level without an entire gym at my disposal?
This is great. I always struggled with finding a good Abb stimulus. Am sure to try these.
Edit: welp seems I am too weak to properly do most of them
Edit2: GHD Situps are now a staple of my gym routine
i tried this yesterday... i did like 9 reps, 6 reps and 3 reps and was utterly in pain. then afterwards, got the biggest abdominal cramp of my life ahah ... these are now part of my routine! good stuff!
Alec: "Up, up, up"
Eugene: "Yeah, I am"
😂😂😂
What a great video, thank you.
Will check out Alec's content. Seriously impressive.
this looks insanely good. I hate classic sit up and leg raises because i have a hard time feeling the stretch and contraction but this looks fantastic. Can't wait to try these.
These are all cool.
But weighted cable crunch is the best ab exercise there is. No amount of GHD's will make your abs pop if you're not very low body fat.
Good stuff. Never saw anything from you before. But I'm a serious core enthusiast never skip my core and train it 4 days a week. Been looking for a new challenge.
Eugene Teo used to be so fit when he started this channel. He is still such an athlete. I still respect him so much for putting out content with some great minds.
I like it that Alec explain things well
Alec: Up, up, up!
Eugene: Yeah I am *not moving*
lol great video! Cant wait to try these exercises!
I can't believe I haven't trained my core like this. I def will incorporate these.
Wow. First I’m going to need a few months of solid pre-core base fitness, but then I’m going to jump in the deep end with these. Thank you for the demonstrations - eye-opening!👏
I really like the exercises and the way you explained all of them. Please keep on making videos like these. Its probably one of the best abs videos on youtube❤
This was great! Alec is the goat!
Alec's core is an alien life form on his body.
That's pure gold content Eugene. Again it's always the weird-looking exercises which gives you most bang for your buck.
Range of motion is the key! 👏👏👏
This is great! I am on week 3 of thick and quick beginner half marathon and loving it.
Awesome name for a program! Do you have a link?
program is here! join.ganbarumethod.com/alec-blenis/
Glad to hear it!
I guarantee this is the best ab workout video ever
YES! This is PRECISELY what I was looking for!
I'll add these to my routine (with some modifications because my gym doesn't have a reverse hyperextension machine) with my favourite: the cable crunch (the GOAT).
Firmly believe that bodyweight ab exercises are a waste of time.
Amazing video, Alec sounds like a great trainer / teacher.
A tip for those cable twists: make sure to rotate your hips and knees first, and then your torso - learned this the hard way a few years ago with a full MCL tear from loading them up relatively heavy - 9.5 months in a full ankle to upper thigh skeleton leg brace haha
Love the cable trunk twist but ADD A BAND!!!! It stabilizes the weight stack when you're doing something "fast" like this with a cable. I started adding one 3 years ago and can't believe it took me so long to try it, feels so much better. For public gym goers, unfortunately it's really not practical.
5:50 Eugene quietly contemplating his life's choices in the background.
Lots of respect for these guys .. I still believe Max True is the GOAT
With the QL side bends, I've found that putting the hip rest right below hip line recruits more glute med/minimus. Also I know he says hip rest leg in front, but I do it with that leg behind and twisting the torso towards the hip pad. This position I feel, allows the greatest stretchy in the QL muscle.
Twisting as you descend and untwist as you ascend incorporates Obliques training. But holding the twist through the eccentric and concentric is all QL+some glute.
I do these fresh then Glute Med,Max,Mini kickbacks after.
this is superb. So many ideas for exercises. Thank you!
Enjoy!
The side bent is absolutely fabulous and hurt. And it's the most accessible equipment is almost any gym
That reverse ghd leg raise is the first one I've tried that truly fries your upper abs.
Just exactly what we needed. Thank you Eugene for always delivering.❤
Thank you! 🙏
Thanks for this! I tried this on Thursday, now it's Sunday and I can't sit up, cough, laugh or take a deep breath! Jeez, best ab workout ever. 😂
Alec is a beast. Great video. Vegainz
Alec is wonderful -- hope to see more of him!
The ghd stuff is inspirational. Didn't think about using them that way. The side bends though I've been doing it for a while and they make my obliques sore as hell.
Been doing full dragonflag for almost 15 years and very few things beat that.
The tips on the crunch are little gems that can be applied to every kind of situps and crunches (it's best if you can fully extend the rib cage like in this video or with a fitball ).
Doing all this plus the side bends always resulted in the best abs (at a specific amount of BF) for me. Training ABS very well makes all the difference in performance ad aestethics specific to a certain BF percentage.
i agree, the dragonflag honestly is one of the best ab exercises that targets your entire abs along with obliques if done correctly along with other parts of the body
My dad who is 53 has trained body building naturally since he was 15, he reached his genetic peak around 23, but the ONLY muscle group that ever grew was his AB’s whenever he was in his 40’s he started doing dragonflags and he has the best ABs I’ve ever seen naturally. Better than this guys as-well
My gym doesn't have GHD, still doing garhammer raises, which I saw on a different Eugene video. They are also quite good. Thank you
I’m a gymnast and I’m going to incorporate all of these into my strength training
Great.
Another one again please.
This was good timing since I got the Nordic GHD from Freak Athlete recently for my home gym. I was already trying the reverse GHD/flag on its flat bench after seeing Dr. Mike showing it (as “modified candlestick”) with a 10° reverse tilt to make it easier. But I hadn’t thought to try it with the GHD attachment.
Kind of crazy I’m at a similar ability on the QL raise, but I’m sure it helps that my upper body is much lighter lol. For those without GHD access, it should work with any back extension machine.
This man is a freaking machine
man, I thought I was getting good range of motion with exercise balls but this is probably the best
I eat my dinner when I watch these videos so I can pretend I'm having dinner with Eugene.
Don't forget to keep your elbows off the table, son
You could find out where he lives and eat outside his front door. Or not.
These are great exercises. Everyone emphasis lengthened porsion of exercises but abs dodnt get much love as far as I saw. These exercises are great for that. I did know about twist and sidebend but ghd stuff is new for me. Is there a variation without ghd?
I'm at the point where I'm close enough to unlock the 7th and 8th ab I'm going for it! Hope to get some gold here!
Usually, these types of abs exercises in general tend to hurt my back even if I focus on my technique, it still hurts. I'm not a newbie I work out for more than ten years. but still.
More Alec content thanks
Some good stuff here. I never do side bends and don't advise anyone to either though. They're bad for your lumbar spine and can lead to sciatica issues.
dont be an ass-->dont max out on them and you will be just fine
(at least if you are healthy😅)
you have to position your leg correctly and maybe have it bent otherwise you might very well annoy your sciatic nerve
Just don't overload them too quickly and you'll be fine
Great tips for ABS, will improve my ABS even more! Thx
3AM life-changing fitness enthusiasts unite!
That is really good, big thanks.
These exercises are insanely good
Awesome now I’m trying to recreate that set up on a budget
I have superhero looking abs. They're just very well insulated.
Eugene,
It's a very inspiring video and was wondering if you could share the GHD manufacturer that Alec and you were working on?
LEGIT, THE STRETCH, YOU CAN ALSO DO RANDOM CORE EXCERCISE THEN STRETCH IT USING YOGA BALL :)
Wow... good one
This is mental! Can someone call DR MIKE plz, he needs to see this!
I do wish he would release a video for abs. Could really use some options for deep stretch.
Definitely going to try these
What a cool portion of knowledge. Thank You😎
AMAZING. ice to see some new exercises paired with LOTS of technique nuance. A VERY SMALL nitpick. I'm learning voicework (Trying anyway) Alec tends to up-talk the slightest bit at the end of sentences. It's very common and a subconscious way to not come across as intimidating. It's not even noticeable enough to be annoying. But it's noticeable. again, superior content. I just found you today, and you have a new subscriber. Well played Sirs ...
I know you dont do sprinting but i would love to see some content like that too hahaha ❤❤ much love and great videos specially these last months even better !!
John would love this ❤
Great video. Where does one find a double Roman chair like this? It might help my back issues. Thanks.
we need a video on the back side of the core as well
Other than the cable machine, most gyms don't have this kind of advanced equipment.
You're going to have to give us alternative ab exercises, bro.
Awesome video, what brand is that GHD?
Oh yea I tell my patient this as well. A topic I wan to cover in near future
I like tornado ball twists for explosive stuff.
Brilliant cheers 👍
Can someone provide a link or a searchable product name for the devices they were using to do these ab exercises? I have not seen them in my gym.
Gold.
I had been using cable twists for a long time but lately had to take a break because I was getting pain in my left hip/glute/lower back, and it was definitely them causing it. Maybe I'll try to ease into them again cos I do really like them