ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2022
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The next major chapter of Sonic is upon us. No doubt, the conversation will change in the coming years. So before that happens, I wish to give my piece on Sonic's activity in the last 5 years... and the danger of His own society. Please, keep an open mind.
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I can't agree that they were hiding after forces. they've been working on frontiers since before forces. according to kishimoto the game has been in development for 5 years.
also you're one of those "botw invented everything open world sonic copied it wah" people I see, even though open world games have been around long before botw and xenoblade x is what inspired botw, the devs from it being brought on to make botw's open world. also green open field open world? xenoblade wii did it first. kinda hypocritical to call alot of us blind fans when alot of us that actually defend frontiers despite the haters, play more than sonic or zelda, unlike you, and have played more open world games than you and also didn't judge the game over something stupid like momentum or being like the past sonic games, or all the other nonsense excuses. I for one have wanted combat in a sonic game for years since sonic battle gba because sonic is a speedster and having sonic only use homing attack to attack when he has a history of knowing how to fight, makes literally no sense. you want to talk about casual fans, you literally are one. at least I gave the handhelds a chance along with every past sonic game, and I never bought colors ultimate or rise of lyric, nor defended them before release, just like I never bought pokemon sword and shield. I also never overhated on good games like sonic unleashed like all you tend to or overhype the original colors like it was the best ever ignoring the cringe writing. ds version of colors was way better. and I also would try multiple console versions of a game instead of mindlessly bashing, hence why sonic unleashed was my fav sonic game before frontiers, because of the wii/ps2 version being superior with none of the 360 version's flaws. I also wasn't split between classic, dreamcast, or modern, though I do feel every modern game after unleashed and black knight was meh story wise. you want to know why I want to give frontiers a chance? because I understand how hard open world development was and believed that 5 year wait stuff on a open world sonic was true years ago and decided to be patient like I was with xenoblade, unlike you with yearly releases, decided to give them the benefit of the doubt because of covid, and decided to compare the game to open world or open area action games instead of past platformers, because I felt since this game was meant to be an evolution like sonic adventure, it'd be in bigger scale and comparing it to past games wouldn't be fair. I also play on emulators so I know pop in is not an actual bug but has to do with how powerful the hardware cpu and storage you're playing on is and the shaders and assets load over time while you're moving, its how all open world games function so its not some frontiers game bug, its likely just having stuff pop in more because all that footage was switch footage, which makes those whole arguments ridiculous. I also understood the animation criticism but I knew they could easily fix the animations since pso2 ngs, sega's open world mmo, literally has different animations you can change on the fly as cosmetics so I knew sega was capable contrary to what you all think, and I suspected frontiers was showing an early build so I never jumped the gun. watch me be right and you all already jumped the gun again. guess what, also I already know I am right, I already spoiled myself on the livestreams and 4chan leaks this week. but keep on bashing the game or saying all of us people that don't only like sonic or zelda like you are blind sonic fans, sure. also a heads up, if you still doubt me being right, I also predicted smash ultimate dlc character leaks and predicted persona 5 royal coming to switch and other things, whenever I make predictions when it comes to leaks or game development stuff behind the scenes I'm usually right.
also newsflash, sakura wars, yakuza, shenmue, like a dragon, phantasy star, etc also exist, sonic is not sega's sole identity and if sega lost sonic they would still be okay, sega does better in japan than they do in the usa anyway, the whole dreamcast and saturn failing was because of the Usa, not japan, in japan the dreamcast was booming because phantasy star online, one of the first revolutionary mmorpg games, was on it and revolutionizing online technology with the sega channel tech for the dreamcast. sega has had plenty of good games over the years when not sonic, they're just mostly japanese exclusive. don't believe me, watch the goldenbolt documentary the fall of sonic team sega's collapse, crunch, and chaos in the early 2000s
and if you wonder why I got so heated, its your own fault for going on with that whole buy sonic product argument like that applies to everyone excited for frontiers. if you wanted someone to get something positive out of your video, talk to the people excited for the game reasonable or the reasonable people with criticism instead of the ones constantly online involved in dumb debates bashing on either side and acting like that makes up everybody. again, I never bought any of the boom games or colors ultimate, when I found out how bad sonic 06 was after years of never playing it, I ragequit at the final sonic boss and returned it to gamestop. literally all your arguments don't apply to me, I've played other series other than sonic for years, every gen since the nes and gameboy, and I never bought pokemon sword and shield nor do I plan to buy scarlet or violet. when I play games I play for the story and worldbuilding lore and cast of characters and the gameplay, and tend to prefer japanese games like jrpgs or anime fighting games or japanese platformers or japanese open worlds. only mmo I ever really got into was pso2. so I'm literally the opposite of the people you're judging me as one of. how about you learn more about the fanbase instead of only noticing the loud minority.
This video is 100% correct. Many Sonic fans can’t accept that this gaming franchise is very poor in terms of gameplay and will shut down anyone who criticizes it.
This is why we don’t get good games anymore..
I got told by a sonic fan that holding sega accountable for the way they handle sonic as a franchise was tantamount to threatening them. I kid you not.
da hell
tf-
bro... thanks for reminding me why me avoiding interacting with the fandom was a good idea.
'cause it's scary how the fans can either be normal, be absolutely pessimistic and negative(understandably honestly) and somehow be way too sensitive to the point that criticism and stating simple things like how Sega did have a hand in how Sonic games turned out... terrible.
jeez....
Literally got told the same thing today near verbatim. "You can't criticize SEGA because it's mean" was basically what they told me. Sonic fans have begun to turn into Sonic brand loyalists where you can't say *ANYTHING* negative. It always becomes "you're just throwing a tantrum" no matter how civil the negative criticism is.
@@EccentricSandal It's like a fucking cult...it's both scary and sad tbh.
@@EccentricSandal you really can't criticize SEGA for trying something different with this game though, they had never done a single ounce of open world style, adventure somewhat counts I guess. But this is the foundation to what sonic games will be like for the next 10 years, sure there are going to be flaws. But they'll be polished with time.
I think the biggest thing I despise about this "New SEGA gives use more rushed games at a slower pace" thing is that this seems to only be an issue with Sonic.
Yakuza is still putting out quality. Puyo Puyo is still putting out quality. SEGA did the Persona ports internally, with the Switch port somehow having better loading times than the PS4 version. The stars aligned and gave us an actually decent Monkey Ball remake, while that had it's own problems, it certainly doesn't compare to the sheer incompetence behind Sonic Colors and Sonic Orgins. SEGA is... actually doing decent right now. Sonic very much isn't, at least up until Frontiers. I really want to know why Sonic in particular is being mistreated so poorly.
Not to mention Bayonetta 3 just came out
@@djroscurro9859 I'm avoiding things where Sega just liscenses the games or owns a company that is already known to produce a better output than them, like Atlus.
But yeah, if we do count them, that opens up quite a bit more.
My theory, Sonic is shovel ware scrimblo Bimblo to them
It's the beginners course IP that doesn't really need to be good but also we want you to actually make it AAA
This is something SEGA"s been doing since *Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on Genesis*
@@TechBlade9000 that's exactly it. Sonic is shovelware.
@@Carsonj13 But the series shouldn't be shovelware, that's the problem. Sonic is what made sega more of a household name in gaming, before sonic even existed nobody really cared about sega at all. Even when sega had alex kidd as their mascot IP during the master system days nobody really cared about them. When sonic did come into the picture people started give sega their time, attention, and money. Sonic deserves to be treated better by the company that birthed him and made them a recognizable company beginning in the 90's.
If sega can put more quality and effort into a puzzle game series that originally belonged to compile and a JRPG series that they wouldn't owned (along with it's very company) until 2014 then they should be more than capable of giving their mascot franchise the same quality and effort that those IPs got. Then again there have been rumors in the past that have said that nobody in sega really liked sonic at all and that sega japan has made it no secret that they don't give a toss about sonic because nobody in the country sonic was created in cared that much either so course they'd view him as shovelware. But again sonic shouldn't be treated like shovelware, he's been mascot franchise since the year the series debuted.
Finally took the time to watch this and I just gotta say that I love it when you make videos like this. Not only do these things need to be said, but you say them in the best way possible.
This franchise needs work and toxic positivity won't fix that.
Great job, man.
Damn straight.
I'm late watching this now, lol.
So, I thought of something new. The negative stigma of being a Sonic fan never went away; it only changed form. A decade ago, negative opinions ran this series, now the positives are trying to drown them out without understanding who was just being rude and who had a genuine issue with a new game, show or movie. I'm thinking it's like this: "Negative opinions gave us the Meta Era, so we should go back to being positive." No nuance, no deeper ideas. And I think that's why, a whole year after this video, it still happens. These gremlins don't want to feel like Sonic is learning the wrong lessons, but won't tell Sega (the puppet masters) why what they did is wrong and instead try to wait for good stuff to come to them with enough praise. What a sad state of affairs. I'm not even mad, I'm beyond anger or disappointment, I've accepted this because it doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon. One day, this blue menace will run his course and end forever and when nothing good comes of it, the toxins will have no one but themselves to blame.
THIS
I've never resonated with a video more, holy shit. the way negative discourse has been poisoned by people trying to get quick dunks will forever be insane to me and I'm glad a video like this exists
same I'm glad I found this vid in my recommended tab
I agree
"the way negative discourse has been"
What's that way, "getting ratio'd" with entire 8.4k to 10k downvotes? Oh boo hoo, sorry for SPLITTING THE FANBASE, I see we're now BACK to being righteous telling people not to. ONLY 90+ percent praise allowed.
Not me btw, I think downvotes were a dumb inclusion even when REDDIT did it. But you need it SO BAD, to "let Sega know what REAL FANS want" right? Feel free to dv THIS comment so TH-cam automagically hides it, too. The less people actually engaging the better by you, right? Because Oh no, don't RATIO "the little guy"!
SEGA is not going to know how to "politely disagree" and make your cutscene-heavy games for you, when these talking heads THEMSEVES can't even take criticism, or GIVE it, they just say things like "Sonic went wrong" at this point or that point. That's NOT an opinion. If YOU dislike something, then YOU were the one not liking the new product: THAT is supply and demand. Not smearing it as a bad product because it does things like 1 year dev cycle, that doesn't include heavy immersive elements lifted form Hollywood. If YOU decided anything but that kind of game is PERMANENTLY "outdated", you didn't pick up on games WHEN THEY WERE good, but only when they started feeling more like a movie.
A video like this, is only enforcing your entitlement by repeating YOUR opinions back to you. It's not discourse, negative or positive.
I played sonic 1 at 7 and owned all sonic 1 2 3 & knuckles as i was a sega fan back in the days. Still kind of am. but... Sonic frontiers is like it's open world platforms and abysmal level design, they have no foundations, they float mid air without context, and the open world is empty, feeling like a debug dev build. It's the worst sonic game i've ever played, no identity. it doesn't know if it wants to be nier automata, botw / foenix rising, succeeding in none of it.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 my whole point is that people on the internet are just rude and forget that there are actually people behind the screen, thanks for proving my point though
This is the problem with making a product your entire identity. I love Sonic, it's part of my childhood and has helped me through difficult times but it's just a game. I really disliked the writing from Pontaff but to send hate to them was never something I considered, because in the end, its JUST A GAME. I have more important stuff in my life to focus on than trying to make someone feel unsafe on the internet.
i just love how good you are at including cutscenes that fit with what's being talked about. makes each video a hell of a lot more enjoyable.
It's like the characters are doing the exact body language of what he speaks, it's so subtle but it's so clever
Yeah, his editing is just genius.
Showing footage of ShTH when he's talking about something choice related, it's perfect
25:25. It’s far better than that.
100% agree. A lot of editors don’t understand how much visual synergy adds to the video. Without it, I find it distracting.
I ended up losing a year long friendship recently, not because I broke their trust or because we naturally grew apart, but because I didn’t like their new favourite Sonic game.
This video aged like wine.
This is something that only happens among Sonic fans. There's a guy called JayTechTV, who doesn't have a single Sonic video, who's infamous for kicking people out of his circle of friends if they don't play the latest PlayStation Exclusive. Sonic fans are like New Yorkers, seriously.
I’m sorry but if it makes you feel better it’s not you, it’s them. That’s a ridiculous reason to end a friendship
sorry, I don't mean to be offensive but, you should be happy that friendship ended.
I came back to watch this video again after i watched Sam procrastinate's review on the knuckles show. Everyone was ATTACKING him over the fact that after being positive countless times about Sonic recently, this was the only time he wasn't and now Sonic fans especially on twitter were jumping on him over his tweet about not liking it. Seeing him cry because of the overwhelming attacks towards him about a freakin opinion is unacceptable for people to do that to him. I get that this series has been thru alot, but shutting ppl up for not liking a sonic related thing and making fun of them for getting emotional just makes me sick. Constructive criticism is important, and sega needs it for their own good. I want fans to be able to speak up and say if they don't like something. It sucks that everyone has to just gain up on one content creator for being negative. I want this series to grow and no one should feel wrong for something even remotely negative.
I was thinking about this video when it happened too. I haven't seen the Knuckles show so I have no opinion on it, but I hate toxic positivity in general and it is becoming a bigger problem in general imo.
Where did he cry?
@@Kronoblade99 the knuckles TV show review. It was towards the end
This is the good shit, a perfect summary of what honestly should be considered the new "Sonic cycle" at this point.
A line should be drawn between perfectly stable Sonic fans and psychologically immature Sonic fanatics.
It’s you! The guy who told me to watch the video!!
Imagine a franchise that tried to do so many different things, tried to appeal to so many different people…
…and now all of those different people…
…all want *different things…*
…from that franchise.
What a concept.
Pain
Sega's self inflicted handicap of several different identities under this franchise.
fragmented franchise begets a fragmented fanbase
Just figured I'd come back here after seeing the absolute toxic witchhunt that has been the Game Awards Player's Voice award... As both a Sonic and a Genshin fan I'm embarassed seeing the way both fanbases have harassed each other over what basically just boils down to a popularity contest
Also, Sonic fans don't care about critics and game award shows until they do
@@sonnyyoung867 Oh they were both toxic, accusing each other of botting with no evidence and such
@@RJH755 and now they lost to genshin oh well it's more coping for sonic fans then lol
Tell me about it. I managed to miss most of the shitstorm since I didn't care that much in the first place but man, anytime I saw either group posting something about the other it just made me sad.
That whole game awards mess for the Genshin and Sonic fan base, that was just embarrassing and further the issues I have with the sonic fan base making me glad I enjoy sonic without the fan base being involved in my life anymore. But just because a game doesn't get a award at the game awards doesn't mean we can't appreciate the games as is. And I'm saying this as someone who likes xenoblade and Sonic games, but also understand that some games were better and more talked about for these awards in the first place, yet I remain neutral through all this because I understand that it just the way things goes. That doesn't mean fanbases for one award should be harassing each other to the point of being awful to each other for one thing. An award doesn't define a game, the game itself should be the defining factor on if it deserves awards in the first place. That mess for Genshin and Sonic was terrible.
I feel so bad for Emi, that girl is always in the eye of the hurricane for some reason.
Her last controversy was so god damn man stupid, people were steering up controversy cause she slept with Ryan Drummond.
Like two adults consenting to have sex should never be a reason to stear controversy at someone
nonono, you see, going to bed with ryan drummond is adventure propaganda because
It was very stupid, I wish her and Ryan for their best safety
Thanks for this. Great video that I can point people to about this biggest issue facing Sonic right now.
Ah shit, here we go again… Someone prefers to play Sonic 06 than Frontiers and they get jumped for it…
Fans asked why, they gave their reasons why they like 06… and instead of respecting them, they continue to attack the person
Attackers claimed the person “only played P06 and think the game is good” when it’s not true…
It’s all about respecting opinions until a fan doesn’t like the “new thing” or “it’s a step in the right direction!” and then they are considered “ungrateful” or “leave the franchise, it’s not for you anymore” and “it’s a silly blue hedgehog it’s not deep! JP purists!”
it’s been almost two years since Frontiers came out and many fans are still insecure about it…
I mean… I don’t like Frontiers at all and I’d rather play 06… I can deal with the game and I find the game fun and interesting.
Sometimes… as a 2000s fan… I feel like i’m on another planet. I just sit here and wonder… why am I here…
Also… why are fans worried about Frontiers getting criticized for it’s obvious flaws (update 3 being obvious, walking on walls, pop in) if they swear it’s peak or great.
The second a standard-quality game is compared… they backpedal
It’s nice that you pointed out why the sonic drought was shitty to deal with.
I’m fine waiting for a Metroid title every 4-5 years because these games have shown that they can make quality entries and improvements
You cannot say the same for Sonic
That's true. And it's a shame that we've gotten to this point. We waited 4 years for Forces, which amounted to nothing, and we waited 5 long years for Frontiers, and while it's better than Forces, it unfortunately didn't mean much.
@OctoOOZ No kidding huh?
Sonic Colors Ultimate once again looks embarrassing
You can actually... But that could just be me tho, I kinda get annoyed when people bitch and moan and piss and shit about there not being any Sonic news in the span of a couple months, meanwhile I'm over here, a Mega Man/ Star Fox/ F-Zero enjoyer, patiently waiting for the day they announce... Something! XD
Look Gary! THERE I AM! 🙏🏻😔
Oh hey it's you, Disagree with your takes but that obviously doesn't mean you should be harassed. Sorry that had to happen.
"Meow"- Gary
Sorry bout what happened, that really sucks that people would be that extreme over opinions :/
I'm so sorry for what happened, I disagree with your take, but it doesn't deny that you have a huge passion for the Sonic franchise, and makes great fan content, take care
Really sorry you got harassed like that, hope you're doing ok.
Sorry you got harassed for your opinions.
Throughout Sonic's later years, there's always been this fear that if we DON'T celebrate every breadcrumb Sega feeds us, Sega will assume the gesture itself is wrong and never turn those breadcrumbs into actual bread. For example, if we don't write the most positive reviews ever for Sonic Frontiers, we will never get another open-world Sonic game again. What's that, Sonic Colors Ultimate has bad graphics and game-breaking bugs? Don't mention that to Sega, or else they'll kill the boost formula itself. All the heaps of praise that Mania got still wasn't enough for a Mania 2. We gotta be even praise-ier!
To be fair, SegaSammy has made even dumber decisions that crippled the franchise. So what you’re saying isn’t father away from the truth. If a company needs to make money and Sonic isn’t doing it, they’ll find another venture like Yakuza, Phantasy Star or Persona. Sonic is like this big stink where he has to constantly say how stinky he is each passing hour, that people don’t ask.
But his followers feel like it’s a duty to preach that stink all day long, because they feel ‘entitled’ to Sega. A corporation who’s job is to make money, reality doesn’t revolve around one little hedgehog, people!
VeggieTales fan.
A man of culture.
Sega is just stupid
They really made many dumb decisions which is the reason why they ended up leaving the console market
Gee, it's almost like Sega has a track record of abandoning ideas the very second people criticize them!
@@stripeback2024 That doesn't mean we as fans should be obligated to feed them as much overblown positivity as possible while suppressing other people's valid criticism. Colors Ultimate _deserved_ to be bashed, because the lack of quality control was simply unacceptable. The current, recurring issues with the series deserve to be called out because some fans don't want to settle for mediocre and "well at least it's not terrible" anymore.
It was weird this Summer when Frontiers started to actually be shown after like a year of vagueness. IGN would show a couple of things at the start of the month, it didn't look great. People were saying the marketing for Frontiers was subpar, I agreed. But I held back because IGN said it was a month-long look. Meanwhile I see the hostility towards any critics, false equivalences such as how Zelda was handled in the buildup to BotW and TotK (as if Nintendo hadn't explained the hell out of BotW from announcement to release and didn't release remasters, remakes, etc), I keep my statements vague unless it's based around the marketing because Sonic Prime was also barely shown and I found that weird. Nothing about the game, I'm not looking.
I come back at the end of the month, people are praising the hell out of Frontiers. I'm like, "Okay IGN must've shown something significant. This will be interesting." I watch the videos uploaded. Then I go "Wait. This is just more or less the same thing shown at the beginning of the month. Surely I'm missing something." I wasn't. And that's when it was really confirmed that....yeah. That's just how the fandom is now.
I've been here before. It's what got me to stop interacting with Pokemon after the Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon reveal trailer got significantly disliked back in 2017. I was not going through that again. So I made a stance and said I'm just not going to bother much with Frontiers until it's out, watch some no commentary LP of the game, and then decide if I want to spend my money on it in the future. I never cared about spoilers.
Did not stop me from seeing most of the tweets you displayed in this video. Even Arlo. Even the one with the weird 2D physics from days ago. I dread to see how these people act under the new Twitter ownership, and that's why they're blocked. Stan culture will lead to something dangerous one day and the sad thing is, I don't think any of these people care. They probably want it to get dangerous and that's pitiable. The actual human being that's in the same position they are, ends up being nothing in the face of anyone with money. The motto for way too many individuals is "Brands over people".
"But what about the devs?" Besides the fact that my answer would be about the same as Jebtube's, it's not about the devs for many of these people. Actual developers over this Summer put their 2 cents in regarding the Sonic Frontiers footage shown. The fanbase tried to destroy them, EVEN WHEN THEY GOT PROVEN RIGHT MONTHS LATER. Then they framed it to be "Yeah but you didn't deliver it in the right tone so you can still be ratioed." Fan projects were ratioed as if they ever held any power in the Frontiers department to begin with and it's always by people with bigger egos than the fan developers they're trying to ego check. I never talked about Sonic Omens because I knew this was always less about what they did or how cringe they are, and more about them just being used as a gotcha moment against fan developers in general.
And I don't want this to get lost in the shuffle. "What about the devs?" The devs risked their relationship with SEGA and others to talk about what actually happened with Sonic Origins. They did not have to, but they cared enough about this franchise and their own integrity to do so. Keep in mind that similar things like this has happened with other dev teams in the last few years. So tell me how much it made sense that people were quote retweeting the developers saying "Sega deserves to fire you for being so unprofessional. You should be blacklisted"? Any other day, saying people should lose their jobs is a bad thing on twitter, but when BRAND is a thing, "Hope you become homeless. Sonic #1. "
A fan criticizes a game: "They don't know what they're talking about. Armchair developers."
A random developer criticizes: "They're pretentious and are talking out of their ass."
A developer from the COMPANY criticizes: "They're unprofessional. Get them away from the franchise I love."
There is no winning and why, with all due respect, I don't think trying to work from within Sega's system is really going to do much. Especially with Origins clearly being a clear example of Sega plugging their ears, and the overall language barrier. In the end, Sonic was made to appeal to a more western audience, and right now that western audience is more interested in these multimillion (or even multibillion) dollar franchises existing, than anything to do with quality or their own money management. As for me, I get to save my money so I'm good.
Come on, I think Frontiers has shown improvement over the original gameplay reveal. I think the game does look really good. I don’t see how Frontiers is disliked but other early 2000s games are looked back on with fond memories. I like those games, and I like the vibe that Frontiers seems to be giving. The game might turn out to be bad, but I don’t think I’m being unreasonable when I think that it could
be good.
@@TheSupaman98 Not even worth debating since like I said, I will be made aware when the game launches and I see the no commentary playthrough to form my own opinion. But at the end of the day, marketing SHOULD matter and SEGA decided to be vague for a year, and then rely on a not well thought out IGN reveal to sell people on this. After that month, I decided to not go out of my way to look at the rest, so if you liked what you saw, cool. I will learn what you saw shortly. Rest of the comment was about twitter and I had no way to really avoid seeing the animosity when I follow 300 different artists.
@@StraightUpGamin yeah sega's marketing was terrible. i honestly don't know what the heck they were thinking. the game definitly looks better then it did it june (how much is up to you i suppose, it hin it looks a lot better personally). hopefully the game will turn out well, which i think it will. we'll see in just a few days though
@@StraightUpGamin you see, I guess that's where my feathers get ruffled per-se when looking back at the Frontiers reveal cycle. I definitely understand that there was a lot of toxic positivity going around and people felt like it was justifiable to completely shut down negative discourse about the footage we were seeing at the time, but what I saw going on over Twitter discussion was going the exact opposite way. Instead of me becoming frustrated and fed up with the Sonic fanbase over being blindly positive, I instead saw extreme and very prevalent examples of toxic *negativity* towards the game and what was shown back in June. Anyone, including myself who saw the merits of what we were given and were willing to give Sonic Team the benefit of the doubt were despised, mocked and told they were lunatics essentially. In hindsight, the entire situation was both sided, but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like that part of it never happened. It's part of why I can't help but get petty about the complete 180 the fan reception to the game has become even if it's not wise of me to do so. I really just want the community to move on from this era of toxicity we've been in for as long as I can remember
@@Rman1228 This is what makes assessing overall positive or negative toxicity hard. People like you literally have different timezones or you could be following more people with a positive or negative outlook on the game that shifts the overall thing so it's harder to get a singular overwhelmingly constructive assessment. But from my personal experience I have experienced immature toxicity in general although toxic positivity is more popular from my perspective
Who’s back here after what happened to Jeb on Twitter? Oh my god… fans can be disgusting… even a year later after Sonic Frontiers’ release…
I’m so sorry Jeb…
I just can’t believe like if one person criticizes something about frontiers, or jokes about it, you get jumped. The way that many fans are in denial another this is crazy.
I think a lot of this has to do with the past, this fan base is like traumatized or something that if they don’t defend frontiers or praise it, it all will get scrapped.
I understand… but that’s why this fanbase gets clowned on… even as far to tear down other AAA games like Mario Wonder and Spiderman 2 to put Frontiers on top. Then when it’s time to talk about AAA quality… then suddenly… it’s unfair to put Frontiers next to other games…
This is a living nightmare…
(Sorry for the long rant)
Cathartic to see some actually sane people in this community for once.
I saw that tweet from Jen this morning and I felt so goddamn angry… it’s been almost a year EXACTLY since video released and nothing about this community has changed. It’s absolutely shameful. I’ve said that word in numerous tweets and other forums regarding this situation because there is no other way to describe it. Just outright shameful.
If Jeb of all people can be a victim of this awful community dogpiling and harassment over the tamest of criticism/jokes, then anyone can. What’s the point of voicing your concerns with the franchise if this is where it leads to? Why say anything at all? Why be a fan? I just don’t get it…
Does frontiers even count as AAA? I feel Sonic hasn’t been AAA since Unlesshed
What happened?
How dissapointing it is that this video continues to age well. After seeing your post on Twitter, I'm genuinly upset that this fandom will always find a new low to stoop to. You're patience with these pathetic children goes under appreciated. I hope you stay safe and treat your mental health right. You deserve better.
If you don't mind, can you tell me what he said since I'm banned from crappy Twitter and don't know what's going on
@@derple8524 Sure, Jeb uploaded an innocuous joke about Sonic Frontiers's level design in response to an interview Kishimoto did. He woke up the next day to find 2 DM's that were in response to his joke tweet, one displayed bl00d, g0r3, and wished d3@th upon him, and another that said "You feel nothing. You have no soul. You are not a human being. You are a soulless prick who has no purpose in life." The DM's were sent by 2 different accounts but they were likely sent by the same person with 2 burner accounts. To pour salt on the wound, after reporting the DM's Twitter emailed him back saying they never broke any rules, which is total bullshit, and people were trying say things along the lines of "Jeb sucks n' all, but sending g0r3 is to much man" as if harassment towards him shouldn't be out of the question just yet. Complete. Total. Scum.
Jebtube is ALWAYS the guy to listen to when he tells off the Sonic Fandom
Does that mean people can’t be fans anymore?
@@benmalsky9834 Not at all.
@@benmalsky9834 no he’s fine if you enjoy anything sonic he just doesn’t want you telling people off for criticizing the franchise
@@SNESJerry I tend to tell people off who criticize anything I like.
@@benmalsky9834then your the EXACT kind of fan as to why video's like this exist in the first place. People need to criticize a Sonic game if it has flaws.
This still has aged well. People can’t even express criticism on Sonic Frontiers update 3 because Sonic fans are going to hate on you
Yeah… it’s annoying…
@@user-1818rlI hope they will cool down a bit so ppl can finally express why they don’t like the difficulty. I certainly enjoyed it but I’m the same guy who likes smb2 jp so not everyone has balls of an incomprehensible material so yeah hope you guys won’t be afraid to express your criticism
It’s only been 5 days, and I think it’s getting worse…
@@user-1818rl it’s always is but not for long my friend…….
@@danielkamenetsky263 Ok, looking at Twitter now. The fans that were praising the update are now noticing it’s flaws… Not only that, the ones that told other players to “get gud” are now saying “it’s not fair to say git gud if the player is having a rough time”.
I don’t know… my head hurts. I’m glad that it’s kinda cooling down a little. But imagine people harassing or bullying others for “skill issue” then turn around and say, “actually… don’t say that, it’s rude”. Like???? What???
Honestly, if it was me going on a popular tweet saying how much I didn’t enjoy the game, I’d be destroyed. And end up staying away from those people…
Again, I like how some people are starting to notice flaws now and realizing that not everyone will like the update…
But still… it was awful… I feel sorry for those who expressed their opinion for their issues with the game, get slammed… then later, those who were rude are nice now? I don’t think I can forgive that…
Sorry for the long, rant.
I'm probably a part of the problem (I lean more on the toxic negative side). I think recently I've really been mourning Sonic in some way. The franchise holds many childhood memories for me. Sonic is the reason I started drawing at a young age. All the magic of the series is just gone, and seeing people cheer on its lack of life has me really bitter towards the younger fans. You're right, they don't want Sonic to be better. They just want more Sonic. I want a better Sonic. I want better games. I don't go out of my way to take others down, but I'm loud from my own home (so to speak).
Thanks for putting so many of my own pent up, sometimes vitriolic and poorly articulated thoughts into a much more graciously written video. Excellently done.
I feel this big time man. I got into drawing, animation, and editing- things that help me eat today, all Bcos I was so deeply invested in Sonic fan culture as a kid. I also harbour resentment to the younger immature fans that reinforce the Sonic cycle mindlessly and make it feel like Sonic is irreparably mangled from what he once was. They make it feel like something is wrong with ME for caring, like my memories of Sonic don’t matter and we should just take what we get with open arms.
But isnt that no different to how younger sonic fans were in the 2000s? I mean lets be real here, no 6 year old is getting a new sonic game for any reason other than the fact its sonic. Im a younger fan and thats a flaw i have, and young fans in the 2000s are the same way. Like if you were growing up in the 2010s era, would you seriously have the same in depth takes you do as an adult. Of course not, no one would. But in the modern age young people have to be completely mature by the time they log in online. Im not defending the lashing out at people, i’m just saying we could go a little easier on the younger guys. Not saying we cant provide criticism, but we have to think about how what they’re going through lines up with your experience as a younger fan. I would love to have a civil discussion about this.
@@SuperSireBoyYT Okay but what about the adults acting the same
@@TechBlade9000 well we aren’t talking about the adults unless that’s included in “younger fans”
Well I personally think the series still has legs and HASN’T lost any charm. Are you going to harass me for saying that?
Don't mind me just casually coming back to this video after a guy on Twitter got over 700 QRTs because he expressed the opinion that the spark the electric jester games have a better direction than Sonic team's current output... Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ, indeed. Only Sonic fans will think comparing an indie game to a AAA franchise and holding it accountable to the bare minimum is considered unfair... to the AAA FRANCHISE.
@@felixdaniels37sonic isn't a AAA franchise but i agree. Kishimoto has played spark 3 so it's all good
@@amzrosevca They are all AAA franchises.
@@amzrosevca since it got mid budget games
@@amzrosevca Have you seen Sonic Superstars yet? I think this is finally gonna bring world peace to the Sonic fandom.
That was dope dude! I’m very happy you chose to balance the harshness with optimism. As well as wrapping around to talk about how getting these cool little products are fine, just not to let it consume you into a brand eater monster.
Great stuff as always, you’ve really been on a roll
Hey Jeb, just wanted to let you know that the people at Sasso Studios wouldn’t mind if you reached out to them or vise verse to have a discussion or something. They’re already aware of Twitter nonsense and wanted to give you some encouragement. What you went through is completely inexcusable and the fanbase should be ashamed of themselves of encouraging this behavior. Please, continue doing what YOU like to do and support who YOU deem worthy of your trust. I know several others would do the same.
Left a comment on twitter already but thanks a bunch for this honestly. Videos like yours and J's definitely make me feel like I'm not crazy for being critical of Sonic, but not in a way that I don't want it to succeed. It really does feel like being in a parallel universe when I see people being excited for Frontiers, but mild criticism gets ratioed. Not liking a Sonic game shouldn't be a political statement, but as someone who normally tends to me optimistic towards media and wants it to succeed, I feel like I can't voice how dissapointing Frontiers is because of "letting people enjoy things", yet it's acceptable for people to harass Caelum and say he's "lying" about being frustrated about a Frontiers glitch, and being treated like "Hey, if you didn't want harassment you shouldn't have made your tweet to begin with!".
You nailed points that I wanted to make myself and considering how people are excited for Frontiers yet think people hesitant after Forces are being too negative, it's a breath of fresh air. I definitely hope things get better, even if I'm sitting this next game out (or at least until it's dirt cheap).
i'm very excied for frontiers and think it could even reach my top 5 favorite sonic games, but the toxic positivity surrounding the hype cycle has even been getting me frusterated. i can't even imagine what it's like for people who are skeptical. while i think frontiers will be good it will also be a fairly flawed game, and those flaws should get criticized instead of brushed off so sega can learn from them, so when sega (hopefully) makes a frontiers 2 they can blow the original out of the water.
That wasn't what I wanted to hear. Y'all gotta be better
As someone that is hyped for frontiers and has pre ordered the game, the "if you are not positive about this thing you are making it worse" crowd really gets on my nerves. Im hype for frontiers and personally like what I am seeing but I can see the myriad of issues surrounding the game (especially considering I have played the game for a few hours). People treat it as if hating a sonic game means you hate sonic like no, its just personal taste some of the time and just wanting the franchise to be better alot of the time. all im gonna say is if people are expecting a masterpiece, they need to keep their expectations in check cause this game will not be a masterpiece. It will be good and enjoyable but it wont be amazing. There is jank, and there is issues ESPECIALLY towards the latter half as said by people who have completed the game like splash dash. We just need to learn to have honest discussions so we can actually work to make change and have some mutual ground, so SEGA sees this and is like "okay, the fans unanimously agree that shit needs fixing, its hindering our sales so lets fix it".
Jeb is right, Sonic is literally like a cult. And SEGA are aware of this fact. We just need to do something about it so SEGA cant get away with underfunding and understaffing and rushing their games. What we can do I dont know, but a start is definitely starting to have honest conversations with fans, and with ourselves too
@@voltricity1942 exactly my thoughts. ive actually played the game up to Ares, and I will say so far it is a good game but it has quite a few flaws, and apparently the latter half starts falling apart. I pray people criticise it and dont brush it off so SEGA know that they need to fix up
@@jamrah8713 based
i feel like you, radicalsoda and splash dash are some of the only people who actually bring these problems to light. it’s almost like everyone else is too afraid to say what they think
Penguinz0 sonic frontiers video was straight to the point. Most honest video, rest from sonic fans go easy on frontiers
I wanna agree with you on radicalsoda but I honestly can't, not cause he doesn't give constructive criticism, he does. Its the fact that it doesn't end there, it's his channel and he can do whatever he pleases with it, but at times it isn't actually constructive criticism and is just him throwing pointless digs at the series and overall having an intensely negative aura around him, which makes his videos a little hard to watch, especially painful since he's so goddamn funny.
@@bababobo5067 and at the same time, they’re still sonic fans. so am i
@@bababobo5067 my bad, i feel like the games aren’t like they used to be. that’s mainly because most of the people who worked on games like unleashed and gens left sega to work for nintendo. i think a lot of the passion and talent went with them too, apart from the music. ohtani’s still there so that’s good. but yeah, there’s been a reoccurring pattern with the last few games. main reason being that they all seem to be rushed even after 5 years of development time including a year delay. i mean, with cyberspace there’s only green hill, chemical plant, sky sanctuary and the city level, with all of them reusing level design from gens, unleashed, etc. and somehow making them worse
@@bababobo5067 the employees clearly don’t like working there. there’s a reason why people like the mania team left. and you know kishimoto (the director) doesn’t even want to make the games challenging anymore. you heard about how he didn’t even want the player to worry about “complex gaming controls” and that he wanted forces to be as simple as possible. that on its own just takes so much away from what made games like unleashed so good. the levels were challenging but also highly rewarding. you’d memorise the fastest layout to a 4-5 minute stage and then be able to execute it perfectly to get an s rank. the cyberspace levels on the other hand are just 1 minute green hill levels, and this is because of all the new people they have to keep hiring because the existing ones keep leaving to work on other projects. forces literally had like 2 level designers
This is something that definitely needed to be done, so thank you for stepping up to the task. I've done my best in more recent months to see the social media noise as just that: noise. You do make a great point, however, that that exact circle of people are definitely the ones Sega are targeting with their own PR and marketing, these days. It's unfortunate to see, but hearing you discuss it all, including precise examples involving a few friends of mine, was insanely cathartic. I'm planning to pick up Sonic Frontiers and write up a big review of it, and considered bringing up a few of these points to set the stage, but honestly you've laid it out better than I ever could, so I'll probably just send my own viewers here, for that. I genuinely hope the game itself ends up being good, and whatever the case, this series continues to be fascinating, in one way or another. Aaron's words about pursuing positive change are exciting and inspiring to hear, because working with Sonic officially is still something I'd be very interested in doing at some point in my artistic career, so I appreciate you sharing that, too.
How do you suppose you want to pursue working on Sonic in any official way? Working on the IDW comics, the third movie, any animated shorts similar to the Origins cutscenes? Maybe even make a fan game if none of that is possible?
This was a great discussion piece! Discussion surrounding anything to do with Sonic on Twitter is a recipe for disaster lately. Part of me thinks it's because the fanbase is so desperate for the franchise to succeed that they're willing to lap up anything Sega puts out. To me, the forced positivity stems from the side of the fanbase that's still afraid of the 06 sized boogiemen making a comeback so the next game "has" to be good. Also thank you for highlighting the awful behaviour some of these people have towards others on Twitter. it's super obnoxious to see and is one of the reasons why I don't engage with discussion surrounding this series much haha. I hope that Frontiers is good as the next guy, but we shouldn't be afraid to criticize something if it doesn't live up to expectations. How else would we see improvements if we don't let ourselves be heard?
You can't blame the ones who want the franchise to be desperately great. I would do the same honestly. We have been waiting for a great sonic game that's part of the main line for years since 2008. Sonic needs to be great again. If classic can got from 4 to mania then same with the rest of sonic. We need the real sonic back.
@@Z3RO5286 Sonic IS still great, he has been great for years now.
Sonic has more highs than lows, big shocker I know
It's social status these people are after, not appreciation for something meaningful. Lack of sincerity, lack of an honest reason for being in a fandom is what's killing the subject matter that these fandoms are built around, be it games, movies, or shows.
Rabid fanatics who openly act like this and celebrate themselves, thinking they're being virtuous, are completely miserable and contemptuous towards anyone who can honestly enjoy quality content and actually ELABORATE on why they like it.
I WISH I was making this shit up.
I was waiting on watching the Arlo videos for reasons, and I just ended up forgetting to watch them and moved on to other ones. Watching him talk about his anxiety through his entire ordeal, no matter how short it was, was honestly very haunting. I don't think I agree with his Sonic 2 take, but he really didn't deserve not only the onslaught he got, but the amount of people who then told him to take it all. Not everyone can take all that heat, especially if the reason they're taking it is because of a critique on a movie. I hope he's doing better with himself after that, and I hope he doesn't have to keep walking on eggshells just to say his opinions, whether or not we agree with them.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence when it comes to criticism and perception of the series. Some where I have been blindly hyped and some where I’ve very critical. There’s some times where I’ve really had to check myself and change my behavior accordingly when it comes to expressing myself about disagreements and the like.
From my experience, and from what I’ve learned, I’ve had to make sure that criticism cannot ever get to a personal level. I can combat and debate opinions I don’t agree with, but if it gets to insulting, or they already expressed that they aren’t open to debate, then I’m going to respect that and move on. It’s also gotten to a point where I am legitimately too busy for this most of the time on my end. My well-being is way more important than a series a care about. It doesn’t mean I don’t care, but my priorities have shifted.
Whenever I made my hot-takes tweet for a video I was making, I was actually appalled at the overall response to it. Despite me being in this fandom for most of my life, it still took me by surprise just how antagonist the collective was. Even tho the response to Emi’s tweet was the most egregious, it was happening to nearly everyone in that thread. The response to Emi’s tweet got so bad that the official Sonic social media team on their livestream had to tell people to stop. And of course me being called a “simp” in regards to defending one of my legitimate best friends, regardless of gender or orientation, didn’t help matters either.
I say all of that to say that I am thankful for you making this video. Having it in this video format is definitely the right move in terms of people retaining the information displayed here as well as make it open to actual discussion considering that Twitter isn’t good for that kind of thing, at least imo. Thanks for having me be a part of this in any capacity. My DMs are always open if you need my man.
On your point about being called a "simp":
At this point I believe people have just forgotten what the word means, a simp is a man who is pathetically obsessed with a woman, typically sending their live savings to them in hopes of gaining recognition from them.
Nowadays, if a man even dares to *support* a woman, whether the woman in question is their friend or not, they are a simp.
It's sad really.
I actually remember when Arlo's Sonic Movie 2 video came out. I watched it and (even though enjoyed the movie fairly myself) I could still see and understand where he was coming from. When I got done watching the video, I expected him to get some heat from the fandom for like, two days, maybe even a week at most. Maybe some immature fans would say he has 'bad takes', or something, but everyone would forget about it after a while, and it wouldn't be a big deal. But when you said he was trending for days, and even logged off for a while, and him talking about how taxing it was to deal with all the backlash he got, I was genuinely shocked. It genuinely makes me feel bad to see decent people on the internet get endless sh*t thrown at them for giving an opinion on a video game series like we're discussing politics or religion.
Muchlike how Aaron Webber (and hopefully other people at Sonic Team) saw your Goodbye Sonic Forever video, I hope even moreso that they will see this video too. Everything you've stated here is straight facts, 100% from the bottom of your heart and I can feel that. I can feel how powerful and truthful this message is. I hope strongly SEGA sees this and can reflect on themselves, while we as the community do the same.
Speak your mind, don't bottle it up. This franchise cannot and WILL not improve from silence and/or toxic positivity. Any terrible practices from SEGA are only being encouraged by acting like this. If you want change, it does start with you. No one is perfect, but taking a step to make the change you want to see is how you get results that benefit everybody.
Don't fall apart; speak with your heart.
This "toxic positivity" is thrown around just to invalidate people who genuinely loved Sonic Frontiers
@@Antonio-is2cn Throwing strawmen around isn’t going to help your case
Video of the year
*premy has been summoned*
Not surprised your parents abused you when you were younger. Kind of explains the way you turned out
Prem prem!? Is that you!
This is exactly how I've been feeling the past few weeks. Every criticism is immediately QRT'd by a thousand angry fanboys and girls. They build their entire identities on Sonic and thus any criticism is a personal attack on them. I'm so glad you put this out.
Now if you'll excuse me, later tonight, or perhaps tomorrow, I'm going to sit through your FF7R video and try my best _not_ to get angry at it, and leave a rational, unhateful comment addressing the points you brought up to promote healthy discussion about that game.
This is such a hard topic because there are glaring issues in both sides. Every negative reaction has a wave of toxic positivity, every positive reaction has a wave of toxic negativity. Its a toxic wasteland where no one can say what they feel, which goes for both sides. I agree that the toxic positivity is a bigger problem than toxic negativity, but the problem is still there. We need to work on both sides at once, other wise one is just going to continue to spiral out of control until the community is just completely miserable to be in. We can’t be too negative or else we arent real fans, but we can’t be too positive with out the 30 year old fans sitting us down and having a lecture about how better things used to be for the millionth time.
I saw what happened on Twitter earlier. I'm so sorry that happened to you. It actually made me a little sick. The fact that some people take this franchise (Or any product or piece of media) as personally as they do is simply vile, and kind of psychotic. It's shit like this why I am so shy in internet spaces and steer away from most fanbases. It's just... fucked man.
Bro, watching this makes me feel disgraceful to be a sonic fan. The community is just FULL of childish insensitive adults abusing people for their opinions and just ignore or even bury drama. This is disgusting
Sonic as a franchise is carried by its Fangames.
“It dosent matter who is wrong and who is right” Now if only Sonic Fans knew This.
W comment.
Sonic fans are such a polar opposite to the character that it's actually quite funny.
They claim Themself as “Sonic fans” But they close to act like Gerald Robotnik
@@themissingbits6375 I was thinking more your annoying, really conservative uncle, but, sure that works too.
Some sonic fans knew this
As much as I emotionally battled myself during this video, I honestly thank you for making it Jeb. This is a topic that I've been surprised that *no-one* has had the balls to talk about considering how deep it goes: the state of the community, especially recently with the Frontiers hype cycle. I can't say I agree with everything you've brought up in this video, but nonetheless it was important to share anyway 🙂👍 I really hope that Frontiers marks a new era in the fandom where Sonic Team actually continues to put in effort to make a Sonic game again *AND* that the community becomes open to that effort as well again
Well this didn't aged in terms of " creating a new era "
The fanbase still the same
Yet they never learn that the more they are like this , more Sega encourages this disgusting practices .
This franchise tried so much different things appeal to different people but look at the dark age of Sega as Done to this franchise n, it started great but roughly evolved due to Sega s' downfall and now Sega are making a comeback wth the remakesbof their IPS like jetset radio , golden axe , altered beast , street of rage yay but does Sega even feel remorsefull for ruining their mascot for a good moment it seems to not be the case nowdays , Seems like they ruined sonic just because they lost the console wars and quitted the market to be third party dev so sonic is no longer a weapon to beat it's competitors to them and decided to isolate sonic team from their chaotic environment so their mascot could be a money maker no longer a valuable franchise that everyone used to care about , after sonic didn't started great about it's multiplatform debut
And shadow the hedgehog , sonic 06 projects completely accelerated the downfall of the franchise it started to go up wth colors & generations but down again wth lost World boom , forces and up again wth 2 movies and a decent game in 10yrs and look at we are 'now
This is exactly what said that this franchise tried so many different things to appeal to people even enbracing the original vision of the franchise ( maybe ) but what Sega as given in return was their failures after the genesis era their downfall almost bankruptcy corporate restructures etc Sega Basically given people in return there chaotic environment which ruined their IPs .
And look at we are now again now the people from this franchise all want different things to continue being spineless toxic sheeps to " protect " the blue blur from any types criticisms or opinions that " harms " and further " poisons " the franchise , it's like they want the right people to be on their disgusting side and anything that is against them ( even unintentionally ) needs to be destroyed for their will .
And they
think wth the current state of sonic ,this franchise gonna return to it's glory days 😂
They can be both right / wrong but there's no consistent answers bcuz we keep doing the same bullshits again and again thinking the glory days are gonna comeback but ofc we keep being deadly wrong until we wake up and rethink twice about what are we doing that prevent the franchise to improve evolve to make to glory days comeback.
My word. Once again, you just knocked it out of the park. I remember the first day I watched "Farewell Sonic Forever" and was just in awe, total shock that there was an actual Sonic fan who could see the writing on the wall that we're consistently told to ignore. The closest person I found that was doing that was Premy. Outside of that, it's like as if Sonic fans were living in a twilight zone and at any time someone wanted to wake up, they would told to go back to sleep.
You mentioned Sonic being a religion to people and I noted years back that Sonic fans feel genuinely cult-like. Like, no exaggeration at all. They genuinely believe that attacking Sonic is like killing their grandmother in cold blood. And what would get me is, these would be some of the same people who would say that respecting opinions is important. Some of these people believe that as long as they aren't "insulting" others for their opinions then it means they are respecting those opinions. But they aren't. They never respected those opinions. Ever notice (of course you have) the real passive aggressive, pseudo intellectual way they speak to people they disagree with? It was shown in that Emi comment section. I was there and witness all of that happening. They claimed that Emi was at fault for not putting out the right opinions and "knowing how the Sonic fanbase can be". Although this alleged, "knowing how Sonic fans can be" privilege card is never given to those who have a difference of opinion.
I've seen Sonic fans like Sam be underneath fire because he didn't worship everything Frontiers did. *Sam* of all Sonic fans. This hostile defense that Sonic has is deeper than just typical fan behavior, and I believe I know where it could be coming from. It's coming from a mix of things. The starvation tatic SEGA has been doing and because of what happened in the 2000s. We know back then that Sonic was everyone's whipping board. We know how those older and "wiser" fans would "educate" Sonic fans on what Sonic is and isn't. How aggressive they were when fans of the 2000s wouldn't agree. How their outcries is what helped to give us what we now call the meta era. Years of bashing on Sonic, years of using '06 for the reason why Sonic couldn't be anything good, years of endless nitpicking like the green eyes situation with Sonic 4, it hurt a lot of people. And it hurt them to the point that they now conflate those older fans with *actual* fans who genuinely love this series but will point out the real issues.
This idea of starvation exists inside of the IDW Sonic fanbase as well. Sonic fans who point out the glaring writing issues and mischaracterization gets hit over the head with a hammer and called supporters of Penders who "can't let go". Because the meta era disposed so much trash content, any content that does the bare minimum or a little bit above is seen as finding the holy grail, and if you don't blindly love every decision inside of the comic, then you are seen as a Ian Flynn hater who "complains too much" about the problems inside of Sonic. This also happened with the ROTW animation for putting out a character issue. Now it's "Rose tinted 2000s fans" when the battle of Sonic's characterization is being discussed. So even though we hyped up the Knuckles short for the characterization, I suppose it doesn't matter because consistency in Sonic's personality isn't necessary!
It's always like this with Sonic fans. If it's something they don't care about or find a big deal, then they say "who cares, you're just a nitpicking complainer who has outgrown Sonic." But if it's something they care about? Best believe they are ready to fight anyone in order to defend Sonic's wounded honor, and it isn't until someone (normally a Sonic figurehead) tells them to chill out where they'll shut up for all of 2 minutes before putting their armor back on. It's like they are compensating for what happened previously. I'm not someone who likes the Sonic Movies that much because if you remove the hype from the redesign and the normal poor standard of live action video game movies from them, they are okay movies. However, it will never cease to amaze me how many fans were and are acting as if Paramount gave a hoot about Sonic and pleasing the fanbase when there was a taken down statement from them that essentially said "Yeah. We knew this design was a dumpster fire. But we figured that fans would get over it like how TMNT fans did with the 2014/2016 designs!" Yeah, how caring they are. It's the same way with media posts, merchandise and the games.
Too many people have a parasocial relationship with Sonic and that seen as being a good fan. It's not about the quality of the content, it's about the quantity. Games don't matter anymore, because Sonic is bigger than games. It's a multi-media franchise now (Even though it always has been). It's about being competitive with other fans for being a "good Sonic" fan like saying you always believed in Frontiers from the start. It's cult-like and disturbing, and I'm glad it's being called out.
You're talking about "cult", loving sonic to the point of getting offended whenever someone criticizes
Honestly I never saw a sonic fan going for more then 10 minutes without needing to criticize something, ANYTHING about any game or whatever
Sonoc fans don't defend Sonic, they're the first ones who complain
This community is is one of best and one of the worst I've seen, so much love, passion, care, and excitement so Mr needlemouse yet so much vindictiveness, toxicity, stupidity, and hate.
Honestly I wholeheartedly agree, This fanbase at times truly feels like a cult.
Battles over different opinions of sonic games, TV shows, comics, movies, voice actors/actress, character designs, specific gameplay styles, tone, and yes I'm going there SHIPPING.
I'm not going to act like I was perfect because I was caught in some of these arguments couple years back.
Its just so easy to argue and attack each other over different viewpoints as oppose to just have a civil discussions about it and just simply agree to disagree at the end. This goes for things beyond Sonic in more extreme cases like politics.
Hopefully videos like this will show us to not to be so toxic towards each other and be more open with different discussions when it comes to Sonic.
I applaud you for addressing the IDW comics too, I've seen critics of the comic get bashed continuously, and HEAVILY generalized.
If you do not like IDW Sonic (The Character) you clearly "do not like Sonic or understand his character at all", theres also a lot of harassment.
@@undeadbatman9762
IDW Sonic: Doing literally anything to prevent Eggman from feeding orphans into a blender every week would be against freedom!
SEGA Sonic: We're doing regicide? Yeah okay, hand me the talking sword, let's do this.
Be cool
Be Honest
Don't tweet
Wish I was you
exactly why I never use twitter
One of the things that shocked me the most about Sonic Frontiers' pre-release is Iizuka's statament on how Frontiers will "define the next 10 years of the franchise"
And I'm sitting here like, *"every new mainline Sonic game takes 5 years to make, does that mean he plans to make another 2 open-world Sonic games by the end of the decade??"* Certain people want to dismiss how long it takes them to make a new game because other triple-A franchises like Zelda take just as long to release something as simple as a sequel with reused engine and assets, _but those people are blissfully ignoring that the time those games take to come out are reflected on their quality _*_and Sonic games totally aren't_*
Honestly the fact that people in this fandom constantly dismiss a lot of valid criticism as "hating" and "whining" isn't called out enough.
It's not just this fandom, sadly. It's an internet trend I suppose. I see the exact same discourse about the dragon ball super manga and other fictional works. The "bruh just be grateful they're giving you stuff" response towards ANY negative comment and the "bruh this is dope fans be eating GOOD bruh". with any superficial fan service.
Yeah, cuz there’s no possible way I could hate something just because I think it’s bad, right?
@@geniuskhan2520 Way to completely miss the point. First, criticizing certain aspects of anything doesn't mean you think the thing is bad. And even if you do, it doesn't *necessarily* mean that said criticism is based on blind hate. It's perfectly possible it's based on logical argumentation.
@@ufazig semantics
@@geniuskhan2520 No it isn't. The fact that you are unable to accept any logical difference between blind hate and criticism shows that you have a childish and stupid approach towards discussions (at least about this topic).
While Frontiers is a win for the fanbase, I'm worried it's going to make their behavior worse. What do I mean by this? Well, now that the fans finally got the Sonic storytelling and gameplay they were starving for, they might develop a fear for those aspects getting abandoned/mismanaged by SEGA. After all, they did go in a completely different direction after Generations. This fear may lead to 2 outcomes in this new era:
- Some fans might see proper criticisms for Frontiers (and future games), as attacks against the new era and become pretty defensive. Remember how the defense mechanism for Sonic games were " at least it's not a buggy mess/not 06". I'm worried the new defense mechanism will become "at least it has ambition/not Forces".
- Developers getting harassed about how certain aspects of the brand should be handled. Feedback is important but I don't want the fear mentioned earlier to negatively affect how fans communicate with Sonic Team.
Now, I could be overthinking all of this and things won't turn out that bad. But after observing this fanbase and listening to your video, I'm just worried about the fanbase descending further into defending the brand.
I’m a defender, but keep it to just saying I like it, and then go back to playing the games.
It was not a win at all.
very well written and a good case study of sonic fandom and complacency that still holds up to this day
I criticized frontiers and the replies were just npc responses.
This video perfectly explains why I don't engage in Sonic discourse or post any remotely negative opinions about it. Its not worth arguing about when the people you're arguing with are so closed-minded and aren't open to new ideas or even having their minds changed. And there's no such thing as sitting on the fence in this community either, it's either blind hate or blind loyalty. I forgot specifically who said it, but someone said in a video "People are so divided on what Sonic is because everybody fell in love with a different Sonic", and I think about this from time to time. Cuz like, Mario fans aren't this way. I mean, if you say anything remotely negative about TTYD you are basically a dead man but as a whole, people like all of Mario. Why is Sonic so divided like this? Both Sonic and Mario are always willing to try new things but Mario gets a pass and Sonic doesn't? Idk and I'm prolly rambling at this point
It's because Mario generally is taken care of and does well with almost every new thing they try, with lots of time and polish put into every Mario project. Whereas with Sonic it feels like Sega takes some leftover spaghetti code and puts it in the microwave for 30 seconds and sells it to you for 40 bucks
@@Alex_Barbosa I don’t ever feel that way.
A little over a year later and this video still holds up IMO. Post-Frontiers is just as bad as pre-Frontiers. The Sonic fandom truly fell into a place of no return.
I never really leave comments on videos, but I felt like this was probably a good occasion to write one (even if I can't really find the right words to express how I feel). Sonic is a franchise near and dear to my heart, and seeing the state of it in these last few years has been a difficult thing to witness. Between all the twitter memes, unpolished games, overcorrective positivity in the fanbase and all the other negative shit that's plagued the franchise as of late, I've started to really question why I keep following the series. I think one of the things that really jarred me was seeing people on Twitter actively defending Sonic 06 for being an underrated masterpiece, and shutting down anyone who spoke ill of the glitches or weird narrative elements. At the end of the day, I want to see Sonic, the brand, succeed, because I have enjoyed past content, and I hope that Frontiers is a step in the right direction, but my god do people need to go outside and stop swearing loyalty to corporations. I see it all the time with Disney and Nintendo and its just weird.
I'm just content staying out of these discussions and enjoying what I enjoy to be honest. Everyone deserves the right to their own opinions with getting "L + Ratioed" by a mob of people with way too much free time
But I don’t want people to stop liking the same things I do.
As someone who loved frontiers, even planning on 100%ing the game, I won’t hate you at all for disliking it.
It feels embarrassing to call myself a sonic fan sometimes.
This is an incredible video, giving a great message, but the thing that really ties it together that I don't think many would realize, is the footage you show. You play the perfect moments at the right time, like saying that the ratio of people hating Sonic and the people that attack others for disliking Sonic isn't equal while having Shadow shake his head. Or the pre-Perfect Chaos cutscene when talking about how negative/positive energy are both needed.
Incredible attention to detail that gives this video the extra effort that makes it worth the 5324 rewatches.
Once again Jebtube makes a video that lets me feel like I have a safe space to talk about sonic and not be assaulted for my opinions, thanks for that.
I've had a lot of time to think about what I love about Sonic due to the Sonic drought of recent and I can say that a lot of what I love(d) about Sonic no longer exists in the current day
Diverse roster of characters who each had character arcs and development
Ambition in story telling with creative ideas
Consistency with how characters are portrayed, the world is portrayed, and the story (like serious but still with a lighthearted side)
All of these things I haven't felt with Sonic in years aside from the comics to some degree.
I think there's a piece about how we didn't know how good we had it until it was over, we always got sonic games on a consistent basis with unique ideas in almost every game at that time, now there's no consistency and they feel very samey as well
(I'm not good at articulating my thoughts so I'm sorry for the lackbof a good closure, and how odd of a read that all was, thanks Jeb for making this vid tho, vids like these feel really meaningful to a probable ex Sonic 'fan' like me)
you nailed my thoughts when he asked why we still love sonic. i love that we have time now to apreciate what games that used to be only trashed on, used to do right, but bailing on ppl who have valid criticisms for new material and the state sonic is in is one of those things that make me understand why my friends look at me weird when i'm open about loving sonic.
I don’t think they are all “samey”.
@@Canalbiruta I also want people to respect those who do like the new material.
Wonder if this gonna happen for the next shadow generations thingy
Hahaha…. I got news. It already started.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for standing up and saying this. You're the guy in the meeting who says what needs to be said, even if it isn't what the boss wants to hear. If most people thought like this, we would see positive change more often.
Keep advocating for fair discourse and the golden rule! Even if others don't listen, it's the right way to be. And by being accountable ourselves, we can remind others of responsible behavior and help keep things from completely falling apart. Love this video!
After about a month, it seems like the only criticism the fanatics have against this video is, "His voice is very condescending", which is a non-argument.
They have no ground to stand on. They're desperate to paint you in the wrong, and they can't do it.
They are absolutely pathetic, and it makes me laugh so hard.
Hedgejerk redditors are grasping at straws even though they're just a bunch of loser sonic fans that hang out together because they think they're better than everyone else when they can't even hear the other side of the argument to save their own lives lmao
I like how "sonic fans are delusional" is one of the topics youtube AI came up with
I saw this in my recommended, remembered you made some cool videos on Sonic and thought what the hell might as well give it a watch, realized it was 40 minutes and said "This'll be good." And it was. As someone who has been a mild enjoyer of sonic, as a child I was infatuated with him to put it mildly and probably the most embarrassing thing about my childhood was how much I loved Sonic. Now of course, as I've grown older and matured I still follow Sonic occasionally, keep up on the releases, but I've never been a fanatic about the franchise ever since I entered middle school. Sonic was my whole personality as a kid in elementary school, but I grew up and matured, he was still a part of my childhood no doubt, but I began focusing on what made me, well me. Going from making content on Geometry Dash and now natural disasters, there's some things you mentioned here that apply to almost every little community I've been in and I'd like to put my input on it.
I remember the controversy surrounding Colors Ultimate vividly, in fact I got all red rings and unlocked super sonic in the switch version with not a ton of game breaking bugs outside of the audio and the seizure inducing glitches you can start manually. I did enjoy my time with Colors Ultimate, in an ironic way more than anything, but I cannot recommend it to anyone. The state of Sonic now is one that has lost me and I have stopped following outside of maybe checking out the recent trailers and watching some videos on it. I am skeptical of Frontiers as a game, but I'll figure it out myself whether or not the game is good when it comes out.
The overall behavior of sonic fans you've showcased disgusted me and I do remember seeing the HYPE beast gang come out in 2021 and 2022. The Hype beast gang associated with the sonic fanbase, especially last year and this year, did nothing but push me away. After hearing what sonic Fanatics do, bashing anyone who has the guts to criticize something because they want Sonic to be better, is some of the most appalling behavior a fanbase can show to someone who has valid criticism. But at the same time, your point of this coming from the Sonic Fanatics who have made Sonic their entire fanbase, the points you mentioned surrounding them about the Fanatics and how their entire purpose is Sonic the Hedgehog made me start to connect the dots between just fanbases and the products/personalities they are obsessed with. If anything, the sonic Fanatics have a lot in common with Stan culture and everything I hate about that.
Just to make some parallels here to the communities I've been apart of. One of the big names in the weather community, Ryan Hall, has a dedicated following that if you say anything negative about Ryan and his content or what not, you get bombarded by people who's entire personalities seem to rely on "Defending Ryan Hall." Had an incident with that squad last night and am taking a small break from Twitter because of it. This sort of culture is observed in many fandoms. Parallel to the Geometry Dash Community, any time there's criticism to the mod team in that game there's this sub section of the community that comes out and starts ranting about how people know nothing about the mods role in the game or whatnot.
What I'm trying to say is that while the video in question is about the Sonic Fanatics that are at the core focus of this video and their disturbing behavior and ignorance to reality is something that applies more broadly to every other community if you think about it, but the Sonic Community is currently the one who suffers from this problem the most. I have a good feeling you probably already knew that but I felt like it was something interesting to talk about.
The video itself was really well written. Felt like listening to an extended argumentative essay for an English class and I love reading those. The reasonings behind your points made cohesive sense and the only issue I could really MAYBE ripe on is the point of "New SEGA" but that would end up as an entire comment about how SEGA really just doesn't care about Sonic anymore and that SEGA Can make good games, I mean, the Yakuza/Like a Dragon Franchise is one of my favorite video game franchises of all time and SEGA is the publisher of that as well. There hasn't been a really, BAD Like a Dragon Game outside of...Yakuza Dead Souls? It definitely feels like it's a Sonic centered issue within SEGA right now, because considering everything else that SEGA has been putting out, I'm generally content with what they are doing with Like A Dragon and their smaller IPs. Sonic on the other hand, I completely agree with what you say about what "New SEGA" has been doing with the Sonic Franchise. Just not with some of their other franchises (Although those have their own issues as well). I can really hear the passion coming out for what you once loved in Sonic the Hedgehog, and your passion for video creation as a whole. I'm excited to see what comes next for your channel.
"weather community" that exists? And people fight over like, weathermen?
@@dachel683 Well the weather youtubers that people obsess over don't even have degrees in meteorology. Yes it exists, and yes, I'm confused by it.
@@Alferia people make fandoms off of anything nowadays
So, what and where are the hype beast coming from?
@@whochangemyname6977 twitter
• 3 islands and 4 stage themes for 12 hours at full MSRP
• green hill, chemical plant, sky sanctuary return AGAIN
• 2d sections in the open zone
• no shadow
• no hyper sonic or equivalent
• no new game plus, no reason to level
• no city island, no return to station square
• endings locked to 100% completion to pad out the game
Is this a copypasta? I've seem this like 3 times already word for word genuinely curious
@@Frogadier_00 have you noticed it's all me
no shadow isn't a flaw but okay
@@selph8278 not really, I've seen people say this with different pfp's but if it is you then I dunno what to say
@@Frogadier_00 ok sir
We were promised so much from this game before we saw footage and everyone is just willing to memory hole it. It's not even fun anymore, it's just annoying gaslighting of a community that repeats every 5 years.
This video aged like fine fucking wine.
"And this massive L goes to... The egotistical manbabies in the sonic fanbase!"
see that many of us haven’t learned from this video and won’t treat people like people…. .. unleashed is overrated
@@aexonity Is this in reference to the whole Game Awards BS? Cause yeah, that was atrocious, lol.
@@DLxxx yes it is
Not this year. This year, we have a Sonic game that’s truly gonna unite the franchise in harmony. I’m of course talking about Superstars!
This video basically explains all the issues I have with Sonic Fans (and also Sonic Haters.) Toxic Positivity is such a big issue in the Sonic Fanbase, there's so many times I got attacked by Sonic Fans before Frontiers came out for simply saying that I wasn't hyped for it.
remember guys, only positive and nice things about Sonic! No negativity and hate (aka brutally honest criticism so sega can get better) about the franchise otherwise kill yourself!
12:40 Bro I had a friend on this discord server who was disappointed by the Frontiers (at the time Rangers) trailer and the entire server dogpilled on him just because he was disappointed about what little it said. It got so bad the mods had to mute the channel for a bit. It's insane how rabid Sonic fans can be.
There's a specific period in the history of Sonic that people often refer to as "the dark age" of Sonic, and that always struck me as kind of weird .... because Sonic still seems pretty inconsistent and bad to me :/ I can understand that over 15 years later, some people find it annoying to still be hearing "sonic 06 bad heehee". But over those 15 years, it doesn't seem like things have really improved *that* much
It’s odd. Fans decided the dark age ended when Colors and Gens came out because those were great. I would say the current era, while still inconsistent has a different feel than the old dark age.
The “dark age” refers to the tone of content as opposed to the quality.
@@TheSupaman98 I guess the stories were more serious during the dark age. But I’m pretty sure it was called the dark age because the games were poorly received.
@@TheSupaman98 Then the "Dark Age" really only lasted about two years with Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06. As games like Dark Brotherhood, Unleashed, and Dark Knight aren't much different tonally when compared to the Adventure titles. It's just that games like Colors are much more lighthearted in comparison.
@@TheSupaman98 it actually refers to how Sonic's reputation was really low amongst the general public. We gotta remember that even if the games that came out were good. The terrible reception and reputation that Sonic 06 got made Sonic kind of the new cool thing to hate for a while, with the games getting terrible reviews just because it was cool to give Sonic games bad reviews
Sonic twitter is all like "wah wah wah", Sonic attracts literal babies
I misread it as "liberal babies" and got confused for a sec
@@mr.sentryanddispenserSAME LMFAO
As a young Sonic fan who grew up during the Meta Era, I have something to say.
I have a soft spot for the game, Shadow The Hedgehog. Thanks for listening to my Ted talk.
Don't apologize i know the same feeling brother. All i can say is that Shadow has one of the best narratives in Sonic games🗿🚬
19:49 This. This right here. This is what annoyed me so much with the pre-release of this game. I remember a time when everyone was hyping up Forces and I felt like the only one who hated what I was seeing. The release and the game were so catastrophic that everyone seemed to learn their lesson to wait until after release to see how the game really is. In 5 years, people voluntarily wiped their minds clean and are just repeating all the same schlock they used to, putting down people like me who actually bother to remember how Forces went. I figured that game's release was so bad that everyone would have PTSD enough not to ever give Sonic stupid excuses again, but evidently not.
How do you feel about Sonic Frontiers now that it's been officially released? I'm loving it so far.
@@paulbell3682 I can’t say since I haven’t played it yet. I’ll wait until it gets verified for Steam Deck and goes on sale. That’s gonna take a while. I’m in no rush because I have plenty of things to do in the meantime. I’m as cautiously optimistic now as during pre-release. I’m surprised so many people are loving it, but I never saw the point when the game improved. Though I still can’t comprehend what the point of an open-world Sonic game is without momentum and physics, I don't hate the game yet because if I do, I would be as guilty as the defenders claiming it had to be fantastic.
@@paulbell3682 So am I! Although one boss in Ares Island I’m currently stuck on. I’ll be happy to put the game down for a day or two and figure out how to get past it.
@@benmalsky9834 Is it Wyvern?
@@paulbell3682 I believe I got past that one.
well you definitely won me over. Being able to freely speak my thoughts about why i didnt like frontiers or flynn's writing of sonic/eggman in general is something i at least have more confidence in doing. Hell, im more a fan of Sonic's characterization in OVA and Sonic the Comic despite all the flack StC gets.
to be honest, i think having the writing on the wall like this for many people makes discussion go by much easier. You can embrace someone with a negative opinion and get to understand it or you can go back to your echo chamber. One will encourage broader thinking and one is focused on enjoying the brand.
"Being able to freely speak my thoughts about why i didnt like frontiers or flynn's writing of sonic/eggman"
Don't let anyone put you down over your thoughts on a cartoon character. I think it sucks that people have felt attacked or like they can't say anything without stepping on someones toes. Heck I've felt similarly, especially when its come to my responses. Opinions are exactly that "opinions" and they are so varied and no one opinion is going to be the best out of all of them.
SEGA is ruining Sonic (Rushed release), but the toxic fandom is also ruining Sonic. When yakkocmn criticized Sonic Frontier, it made me feel bad to see the fandom who didn't accept it and attacked him.
His video has has an overwhelming amount of likes. Not liking the new Sonic game isn't a spicy take anymore.
In regards to that person that received an onslaught of hate for posting a clip of a physics glitch in Frontiers and saying "I'm so fucking done", When I joined in and essentially said "attacking someone for criticizing a game is stupid" I was told that the person should've just not said anything at all, and still, its something I cannot wrap my head around. Sonic fans would rather say "just don't criticize the game at all" than say, "harassment is bad."
That is just pathetic. I'm optimistic about sonic frontiers but bloody hell criticism is always valid.
I saw the tweet in question, and while their criticism was definitely valid, the attitude with which they gave it didn't imply they were looking for any kind of constructive discussion. So it's not that they were wrong in what they were trying to say, but I wasn't surprised at the overreactions to that tweet.
@@rubenk.7150 Not everything has to be a valid discussion. Sometimes, people just wanna talk and give their thoughts on something without having to defend themselves or their point.
@@darkcrow3350 exactly
@@twoforfive9228 And I get that, but if you weren't trying to be constructive in the first place, you shouldn't expect constructive responses.
SammyclasicSonicFan was true all along, we just laughed instead of listening.
Thank you so much for going out to actually saying this. I feel this should really apply to not just to Sonic, but EVERY online community.
21:44
I think it’s because the term “meta” has completely lost actual meaning nowadays and most Sonic fans online just use it pseudo-intellectually as a buzzword to dismiss every game that came out in the 2010s out of cynicism. Just because there’s one line in Sonic Forces that passively references Generations’ title. I feel like whenever people genuinely try to use “meta” as a criticism, they’re mostly just talking about the Sonic boom cartoon, or Twitter memes.
Nah, Meta specifically means the games, and especially the storylines, being designed around "fixing" things, "going back to the roots," and essentially listening to journalists over your actual fans. The references are just a side product to the whole picture of Sonic not evolving for a whole decade, instead just wallowing in it's own past.
It's not a buzzword, it's actually very specific, and I like it for that since it's an actual descriptive term for the 2010s, unlike every "renaissance era" we name drop before the games turn to shit again (we did that in 2011, and we are doing it now with frontiers, because we genuinely are that ignorant).
I’m genuinely at the point where a lot of the heavy Frontiers defenders have made me feel genuinely awful for thinking that the game looks really bad, it really does hurt to be in this fanbase a lot of times honestly. No offense to people who like Frontiers btw, it’s just that I’ve interacted with a lot of people who will shame me for having the opinion that I do have unfortunately :(
also this was a really good video btw lol
@@wiiwheel523 Yeah sonic frontiers is a game that isn’t for me but I am happy that people enjoy them.
I used to think I wanted a Sonic adventure 3 or at least a remaster of the first 2 adventure games, but with current day Sega I'm quickly coming to terms with not wanting both of those things.
That'll would be cool to have but rn i just want this franchise to be consistent
Yeah, I understand that feel.
My favourite characters in the franchise are now Emerl and Mephiles, and a big part of what gives them the edge over other contenders is them being dead, and therefore unable to be used to disappoint me. I'm never gonna turn on a game and see Emerl being reduced to a caricature for cheap jokes or to make "Classic Sonic" look better, I'm never gonna open a comic and find a multi-panel screed from Mephiles concerning an ideology that the comic writer gave him without considering whether it matches his in-game portrayal, because they are both gone, and by SEGA's rules, won't be coming back.
@@ToaArcan well thank god that mephiles wasn’t in forces
While I enjoy the IDW Comics and looking forward to playing Frontiers, man, this video does speak to me.
I'm lucky to have chose avoiding Social Media from the start, but I've been seeing this mentality on forums, blog comments, and other websites where fans can interact. The fact a product exists is worth celebrating, and Sonic can do no wrong. Even though fans have entirely outdone Sonic Orgins with their own decompolation projects they did own their free time. I'm tired of being told I'm part of the problem when my general actions of stating my opinions aren't seemingly hurting franchises with much healthier fanbases.
The consistent uploads have been an absolute joy please keep it up man
Stellar video essay! I hope we're heading towards a healthier era.
We should all respect our opinions, because no game is perfect, let's be happy that the blue speedy hedgehog is still alive and around.
Also I love this video, I had no clue about *that* part of the fanbased ._. I know there was like hate and all but this is insane.
After watching the full video finally, I'm so hurt 🤕 how dare they treat Chaomix and Emi like that, that's horrible-
I'd bet most people already giving it a thumbs down haven't even watched it yet, which only validates your point.
Re-watching this video from time to time seriously reinforces how I feel about the fanbase that I'm a part of.
For some really STUPID reasons, you aren't allowed to have problems with the things you like around here!
Not even when there's awful things in Frontiers and Superstars that you can SEE with your own two eyes.
Glitches, backwater decisions, minuscule patchwork, and even lame as hell statements about a certain moon that could've been Sonic's equivalent to Dark Matter.
I remember when expressing my opinions of the Sonic Movies due to it's somewhat subpar writing and not being what i wanted, i was harassed and was called "a sonic hater" for simply criticizing a product, i remember this was on a discord server and whenever i shared a simple opinion or thought on my thoughts on the Sonic Movies, so many people would just come him hurling insults and comments at me for just simply not liking a film.
I feel Sonic fans act like the victims most of them but in actuality, they're the ones that victimise themselves and call out or harass anyone who dares the blue speedy hedgehog, it the reason why i take breaks from social media platforms or embarrassed to be a fan of this series in spite of how much i love it, it feels now i have stress this is my opinion or something stupidly obvious to avoid something like the movie drama again because it really fucked me up mentally since i already had a lot going on at the time.
I feel the franchise has stagnated to a point of being so safe and not being abled to take risks, that the fans themselves are so scared of criticism that they have this elitist stigma with toxic posivity that anyone dares to critcise anything about Sonic is just a hater.
Overall this video was great, it just really shows by being brutally honest with the state of the series, can really open the eyes and made me realise that i wasn't alone with my stance and mental health issues i had faced.
This felt almost like a psychology lesson.
This video was really well done! I’m not really a sonic fan that engages with the community, I don’t really talk or interact with other fans online, I more so just watch sonictubers. But I’ve realised that my opinion is very easily influenced by other people’s opinions. I was 12 when forces came out, and to 12 year old me I enjoyed it, I even took brakes cause I didn’t want to finish it all in one go, wanting to savour the experience. But when I finished it and went online and saw all the negativity towards forces I felt like I was wrong in my opinion and I changed gears to hating forces like the majority of fans. What I’m saying is that my own opinion on things is something I struggle with, but this video was really helpful, and a great video to watch before the release of frontiers. Now that I’m 17 and more mature, I’m going into frontiers with a open mind, and just seeing what my initial thoughts and feelings are. And I feel like because of this video I’m gonna be more confident in my opinion and not follow the crowd or change my opinion based on what the general consensus is.
This is a great video. I've never felt such a disconnect between myself and the fans/series as a whole before. The current state of the fandom is, just bewildering to say the least, and has seriously destroyed my own experience of the brand a lot more than it really should have depressingly enough - so this video is nice to reassure myself that I'm not the one going insane lol.
Exactly my thoughts on why I'm not a Sonic fan anymore, they're consuming the franchise's content regardless of what form it takes. They are not Sonic "Fans," they're Sonic *Consumers.* At this point, the only thing left I consider good about the franchise is how much further it can crumble.
I felt this way for so long but didn’t know how to put it into words. This is why I would call myself a “shadow” sonic fan. I’ll always be there in the darkness hoping that the IP is taken under new management, hoping that the characters designs will be updated to fit the modern aesthetic, hoping for all sorts- but I’ll never be proud to be a fan anymore. “Pride” is too strong a word to associate with the Sonic IP as it is now, imo anyways.
Same thing with Pokémon
I am still a FAN. I haven’t bought many of the merchandise, but I’m still playing the games and watching the extended media.
Don’t say that! I don’t want it to crumble.
Jeb is a Sonic consumer himself, how ironic
This may not be the main point of the video, but this made me rethink my life as a Sonic fan. I'm honestly one of those people who has listened to so many people's opinions and takes on a franchise, especially this one, that they've all mended my opinion, and I liked Sonic because of how other people perceived him. Honestly, this video made me realize that it's time that I see how I truly feel about things, without anyone else's opinions to get in the way of how my heart feels about the franchise and what it offers.
Btw I don't even HAVE Twitter, so for how many toxic fans there are, it's insane. I knew there was toxicity in the Sonic community, but this video really put it into perspective
I think it's funny that Aarons actual response was just "maybe you should start working on the series"
*TL;DR version:* Critique is very important, especially for Sonic and so is civil conversations that treat others like human beings. It's sad to see people not get that.
*Long version cause I'm bad at consise thought:*would like to make a confession. I used to be like this. I would feel personally attacked by people's critiques of something I liked, not just Sonic but any piece of media. "How dare they ridicule this product? Why can't you just have fun?" I was so worried about shielding a corporation that made stuff I liked, I didn't care about the person I was arguing against. That was until I thought about what I was doing, how I conducted myself around others while typing on my keyboard. Was this really what I wanted? To be angry at someone for sharing a harmless opinion, to shield something I may not even like outside of the character on the box? Would I like being one the other end of this? It was this epiphany that made me start to realise the value in critique the negatives of blind adoration. I don't believe you're a fan if you cannot find a single ounce of joy in a given product, but sometimes I think people can be even less of one when you actively refuse to critique anything relating to it. Critique is important. I do it not because I hate Sonic but because I want it to be better. I know it can be better and I think it's wasting the potential it has. I've come to really like having civil conversations with others about things I enjoy, even if we disagree. Do you know how good it feels to simply argue contrasting points and at the end say "I respect your thoughts" instead of yelling at each other. Modern Sonic Team has constantly disappointed me but sometimes not as much as it's supporters who take toxic positivity too far and actively harass others for their simple opinions on a blue rodent. I'll say it right now, I didn't like Arlo's review. I disagreed with a few of his points about Sonic 2, but at the end of the day respected how he felt and went on with my day. If I was ever one of those people on Twitter who told him to come back and take what he getting or shame him for leaving what he thought was a stressful situation there, I shouldn't be surprised if regular people don't take me seriously. Toxic positivity is worse than toxic negativity because only one always gets pointed out as being bad. I personally have tried to be as respectful as possible with others because that's how I want to be treated and I'm really upset that parts of a community of media I like can't remember a staple rule of grade freaking 1. One day, I would love discourse to be like Sonic snd Shadow's final confrontation on the arc. They don't like each other and disagree but still respect one another and can just talk to one another, but realistically I believe that day will never come and we'll keep slinging ad hominems at each other till the dnd of time.
This modern era of content critique seems rather ubiquitous to me; it's not contained to just Sonic. Look at any media property (especially long lasting or well established ones) and the same thing happens; although to varying degrees.
It's almost a dichotomy between people who cherish good work and those who cherish the brand itself; regardless of it's quality. The latter are often more vocal as there seems to be a culture that promotes and rewards that mentality and subsequent behavior. People become a fan of being a fan, as well as appearing to be positive or virtuous.
Essentially, it's tribalistic in nature.
This video inspired me to think of becoming a SonicTuber. Not to voice my own opinions on the series but to be a genuine source of good in the community. I may do it, I may not. But if I do, please know that THIS video was my call to action. Thank you.
Sonic hypelords are very obnoxious and will eat whatever rotten scraps sega leaves on a rusty plate, and will then defend said scraps with their whole being. Glad you’re saying something, it’s starting to get real tiresome having to defend yourself for having common sense
I came in here expecting the first review for Frontiers from a guy who got the game earlier than others, but what I got instead was miles better. This is something over the past few months I've come to realize about Sega, Sonic and a large percentage of his fans. This video is spot on and I agree almost 100%. Every Sonic fan needs to see this. It's getting old seeing people all criticize the games over and over again, only to buy them at launch at full retail price despite the game being nowhere near as good as they hoped for. I will disagree on the last part though, I think It's important to tell them to vote with their wallet. If they're OK with the game, I don't care. That shows that they got what they wanted, more power to them. The dumb part is seeing them criticize the game over and over again, but still buying it anyway at full price and never realizing that this cycle is basically never going to stop at this rate.
That shows that they're not OK with the game, they're just trying to convince themselves to try and like it. It won't make the games better. If this is the future of Sonic, then I really just think Sonic isn't for me anymore. I know people get made fun of for saying that because they usually come back anyway, but I've genuinely never said that until now and I haven't spent more than a total of $10 on Sonic over the past DECADE, excluding Mania. I just get the games for free or for a 1-2 bucks on a sale, cause that's all they're worth to me now.
BTW Webber is a baller, one of the best guys to have ever worked for Sega. I hope the best for him.
Very true I think a fanbase that’s also been embracing mediocrity is Pokémon the games have been so stale and constantly adding and getting rid of stuff and everyone’s just ok with it hoping more folks start to actually want more from games
yeh same thing here
i agree with most that's said here. i think sonic frontiers looks good so i'm gonna get it, though it also looks fairly flawed so i will criticize a lot so hopefully if they make a frontiers 2, sonic team can blow the original out of the water (i'm hoping for too much aren't i? lol).
@@voltricity1942 Same thing here i think imma buy it since im looking foward 2 it but i don't think its gonna be like the best sonic game or amazing prob just good and i do find it weird that people were suddenly praising it like i don't mind it but it seemed wired to not see like some kind of criticism towards it
@@voltricity1942 I will say visually frontiers looks pretty especially on the switch I heard the game does have frame drops but most switch games do
You really wanna piss Sonic fans/Twitter off? Tell them Archie Sonic is better with handling lore and all characters outside of Sonic himself than Sega had been with the games since Adventure 2.
That's probably a fact at this point with the current state right now. Were talking about after Penders?
@@KgEclispe252it is a fact and the comic as a whole. Yes, Pender is the reason the run got cancelled, and he dropped the ball on a lot of stories points, but I'm not gonna pretend that dude didn't have moments where he actually cooked knowing that Sega's bitchass was giving him little to zero to work with in the World building department and are just now half-assed acting like they care about their own lore especially after Naka left.
Also, it wasn’t long ago that a sonic fan told me, “the negative vitriol that you are spreading is just as poison and dangerous as what hitler did to the jews!”
Yeah… those are fans for ya🤦🏾♂️
Nothing but facts in this video. Sonic fans on Twitter are toxic as all hell.
Twitter is toxic as hell. The whole platform. Just in general.
It's also the worst platform on the internet by far imo. Even Google Plus was better.