I'm writing a pinned comment here as a general response to everyone. I know Techplant has been responding a lot on both videos (which he has the right to do so). I just want to give a bit more context: My opinions I express on this video obviously still stand. I believe if Techplant wanted to show the differences between large cuttings and deflasked TC plants that's one thing - but using the title he chose has led people to a lot of confusion as he is saying he has effectively mythbusted/debunked 1.0/2.0 in the title. In my opinion saying "hey you can't compare these two things" is completely valid - but it doesn't debunk the original observation I made. It simply says hey you need to not make this comparison as it's not a proper comparison. I respect he tried to show us why. My confusion came from the fact that he made the claim that a recently deflasked plant from TC was unlikely to be anywhere near as compact as growth from a cutting and therefore not comparable - after showing us some extremely compact looking deflasked thai constellation at the beginning of the video. This shows us that indeed you can indeed have an extremely compact deflasked thai constellation. He also identified that the amount of variegation on a thai (which we know is chaotic as hell so there's a headache for literally anyone trying to figure things out) - seems to make a difference. - there's a headache of a variable. We were also shown Monstera deliciosa in comparisons that were seed grown which adds another variable in the mix. In addition to this, the compared cuttings were grown in a prop box - which is undoubtedly a significant change from the environment the other plants appear to be growing in - people use prop boxes for a reason - another variable. Again my video was not scientific. It was based on 5 years experience selling hundreds if not thousands of thai constellation. I was also taking into account other things I've heard from growers/suppliers, the condition of thai Ive seen in person in thai nurseries and some things I've speculated over when it came to the Costa Farms fiasco that I spoke about. I completely acknowledge that I just threw a statement out there on a video but I did my best to make sure people knew it was a personal opinion. I dont feel I can do much more than that. I will say I'm not the biggest fan of Techplants title on his response video - he clearly knows what he's doing but if that's how he wants to get people to watch his content that's entirely his choice. It's the internet! Personally I just think it doesn't help people who are speculating this is all drama. No shade from me - it's TH-cam, were both TH-camrs, it's how it is. The things I've mentioned above are things that have led me to the opinions I have. I dont "hate" Techplant or anything of the sort. I want to remind people that you can have discussions on the internet and it not be drama. It's drama if someone crosses a line but in my opinion neither I or Techplant have - any nastiness caused has actually come from members of one or both fanbases. Feel free to disagree with either one of us but please - you don't need to make it nasty when neither of us have. Oh - one other thing because I know people have been asking: I will look into making a full-on experiment with a pre 2019 thai, a 2020 thai and a 2023 thai as I have those. Needless to say there will be limitations of that experiment but I will acknowledge those appropriately.
I really like this, there are some great point about flaws in my data gathering that can be improved. I also appreciate the time you took to do all this. Looking forward to any future content on the subject! I'm also going to attempt some new stuff around these plants and I will be fun to see if we can get some nice results that would really show the difference or no difference. Either way I'm excited!
@synchronartcity5919 so you're saying Techplant can have his opinion.. but I cant? Even though his video was based on quite literally my opinion? Make it make sense 😆
@@KayleeEllenOfficial no I'm saying don't victimize yourself by saying you didn't like his video title when you are playing the same game and started it. I've been watching you for years from before you had the shop you're at now. Just felt all this was unnecessary. You literally had him on your thumbnail with a snarky "no." We know the game you're playing. Lol
As others have said, you and Techplant are my two favorite plant creators -- would love to see more back-and-forth between you two! That said, even if you were to compare the 1.0 and 2.0 directly (which he didn't do), "age" would be another confounding variable because the 1.0 would be more mature. Perhaps a better way would be to use tissue culture to clone a 1.0 and 2.0 and then grow those specimens in the same conditions to compare the rate of development, heartiness, physiological characteristics, etc.
Upon moving to Florida in 2022 my interest in rare/tropical/variegated, etc. plants was sparked. In March '23 I found a HUGE Monstera Thai Constellation (~20+ft of 4in. thick stem with 6 heads- twas Crawler, duh) that was planted in the ground, established, and thriving underneath some palms. East facing the coast, uncared for, and severely damaged from exposure to the elements- ripped leaves from wind blowing it through the fence, sunburned, and just unkempt, in need of TLC. So I pruned a few damaged pieces, removed/propagated a few good top cuts(4), and some mid cuts(3) over a few weeks. This was my intro to, and education of, Monstera (all aroids). Because I learned from experience through trial-and-error by propagating Giant Thai Con head cuts and huge unrooted stems, caring for and propagating other aroids, monstera especially, became much easier and more natural for me than most other growers. That being said, my XL Thai con plants are quite obviously pre-2019, pre-covid, pre-(alleged)thai2.0, pre-thai con being mass produced and prices dropping, etc. It's undoubtedly an original Thai Constellation, likely from the late 1990s- early 2000s. Age assessment made confidently based on the size of the plant and when it was found. Now, the point, Every single plant that I have propagated from this "found, Original 1.0" Thai Con, head- or mid- cut, the ratio of petiole-to-leaf size it about 1:1, or 100%. Consistently. At worst: 85%, at best 115% (sometimes more) amount of variegation irrelevant(pics of proof, tc with 65% sectoral variegation, solid off-white. Leaf about 46in in length, petiole under 41in). Whether it is the original leaf of that piece, the first new leaf, or 5th, the ratio persists. External factors, 2 get natural sunlight only, 2 get both natural and artifical, 2 get only artificial from grow lights, and the ratio persists: (.85-1.15)/1 or 85-115% leaf to petiole. Substrates: some in junk- lava rocks, pine bark nuggets, and whatever soil(or mulch) I had available at the time. Doing great BTW. Others in Premium soil blend like Foxfarm OFPS. Some in Leca/ semi hydro. The ratio seems to become the Rule. The one exception to Rule is sub-prime conditions leading to an unhealthy plant causing abnormal/less then usual new growth. Sub-prime conditions include: Extreme temperatures, major fluctuation in RH, under/over watering, any undesirable substrate conditions (bad mix, too fine, too coarse, too dense, nutrient abundance or deficiencies, pests, bacteria or viral infection, hydrophobic, whatever) that causes the newest leaf to grow either puny or deformed. Example, winter dropped to below 60°F by me, the leaf that unfurled in December is 60% the size of the leaf before and after it. External factors that changed over winter include temperature, watering schedule, and amount of light (less hours, less intense). I do not have a small sample of this plant. Smallest prop has a 3.25in diameter stem and produced a first new leaf of 12in or larger. My newer Thais that i acclimated from tissue culture myself are still small, just beginning to mature. Purchased 2023, long after the alleged "Thai2.0" became a thing. They are in the early stages of fenestrating: first slits, and a hole or 2. All are under more than adequate grow lights, most in semi hydro, except one. One is in soil, Foxfarm OFPS. And, keeping mind the level of maturity, ALL of the newer, (potentially Thai2.0) adhear to a different ratio. First 2-3 Baby leafs are 1:3 leaf-to-petiole, juvenile leafs(first 1 or 2 after acclimation) ratio averages at 1:2. Once completely acclimated, ratio increases to 2:3. Leaf is consistently 2/3 the length of the petiole. Recap: A Healthy*, Original (pre-2019 pre- Covid), very large in size, and fully matured Thai Constellation, in various substrates and under varied optimal conditions, consistently produced a Leaf-to-Petiole ratio of within 15%(+/-) of 1:1. In other words. They are about the same size. Newer Thai Cons (post-2019, after Covid) under similar optimal conditions, established/rooted but still small and not yet mature, is producing a leaf-to-petiole ratio that is gradually getting closer to being the same. Starting a leaf one third the size of the petiole, then half 1:2, and finally 2:3. Newer, juvenile Thais(2.0😂) with a leaf size up to 66% the length of the petiole, the ratio has doubled in 4-5 leafs. Currently shy of the Golden Ratio of 1:1, but moving on the right direction. Updates to follow as the newer Thais begin mature. Side note*: in my experience, cutting any established plant, one that has a fully grown root system, will grow/ produce new leafs that are larger, more mature, and with a better variegation- or chance of, in less time and in fewer leafs. Thanks for reading. Good luck yall 👍
Overlooked high point: the suppressed glee with which he used that tape measure and did the maths. Loved it. I’m in the Kaylee camp. Experience with hundreds of plants over the whole period in question counts for a lot. Testing the wrong plants, alas, does not. Much fun though. Appreciated 🤣
Yes, the guy’s non-verbal body language, facial expressions and choice of words certainly conveyed a sense of condescension. BTW, I believe that Kaylee has a masters degree in a computer science field and it seems to me that she is fairly logical in thought processes.
The fact that we went from Pink Princess over Pink Princess Marble to Pink Princess Marble Schmarble Fantasy Galaxy proves pretty well that there are different batches of TC, taken from different mother plants. It's pretty obvious that the same happened with the Thai Constellation and the Creme Brulee. It's quite plausible that there were multiple different batches that didn't get an extra name because they only had minor differences.
There is no denying there will be difference between TC batches, and even between plantlets from the same mother plant. The most important question here is: are those differences important enough to the plant community to give different plants different names?
@@northliu1196 Kaylee literally said multiple times in her original videos that she doesn't want people to go around and make these names a thing. She reiterated it here multiple times again.
@@andyx6827Yes, that’s her opinion, and I agree with her opinion on that. But the problem is a lot of people don’t hold that opinion. And my original question is more toward those people.
@@northliu1196 andy seems pretty worked up over the "disagreement" (lashing out elsewhere). It seems like a number of the viewers here are taking this as a personal attack on Kaylee and are jumping to her defense. I don't think TechPlant or Kaylee look at it that way. I personally don't have interest in a lot of rare or variegated plants. In particular, Thai Con isn't one that's called out to me. Even so, now that the idea's been posed, I'm pretty interested in what differences may exist. v1 and v2 are pretty simple names for differentiating between two plants with claimed differences. There's a reason she used those labels. I think her main point was that she didn't want to be pulled into drama surrounding these "made up names concocted by Kaylee Ellen". Going back to your question, I'd say it depends on what someone is able to prove with a proper experiment. Then maybe a more official name than v1/v2(v3?) can be used for each plant.
@@cheesechaos I completely agree with you. It’s sad that the content creator are having light hearted discussions. And their fans are trying to tear each others apart.
Itd be more scientific if he maybe - reached out to nse/ree gardens or any other notable growers and purchased a cutting of old stock - propagated it back until it was about the size of his 2.0 plants - compared the growth between them over a years time in identical conditions
I believe I was one of the first people in Germany to own a large Thai Constellation. None of the plants in his video are from the first generation. I got mine as a larger plant around 2018/19. There are definitely differences compared to the newer generations.
Agree. So, I've been growing the earlier version of Thai Constellation since 2020, and yes they are different from the ones that came from the later batch. Since I live in Indonesia, I put all of them outside and almost care-free, now the earlier batch of ThaiCons are striving while none of the later has survived. My subjective opinion about them is in line with what Kaylee has said about the plant in her videos.
I got one of the 2.0 plants from Walmart and I was actually impressed with it not being leggy or awkward. But then again I don't really care either way, they are such pretty plants and I couldn't have afforded to buy one before.
I agree that this guy did not disprove your observed differences between pre- and post-2019 Thai Constellations because he didn’t even measure any pre-2019 plants. The two “studies” have been designed differently. Questions posed also seem different and even divergent. The other guy who did not have a pre-2019 Thai constellation tried to account for this by getting pictures of pre-2019 plant with a post-2019 plant by the other guy is not equivalent. If this guy went through effort to measure the plants he had in possession, it is not a fair comparison because he didn’t even measure the pre-2019 Thai constellation monsteras. The most reasonable thing to do is to have your pre-2019 Monstera Thai constellation tissue cultured, send him some of your tissue cultured pre-2019 Monstera Thai Constellation so that this guy can compare your pre-2019’s with his tissue cultured post 2019 Thai Constellation monsteras.
agreed, as for him being "scientific" any scientist watching his video will discount it cause it not scientific it's just observations based on internet pictures.
I have both generation Thai’s. One from 2018 and one from this year and can definitely tell the difference. The original one is virtually bomb proof and the newer one is quite finicky with longer petioles.
I love that He said he wants to take a “scientific approach” and then makes a video using only a tape measure and not even comparing the two plants in question 🙄😂
exactly! you can't be saying it's scientific and than just looking at unverified pictures, not even trying to do some measuring on them (I know that's very difficult), and then just saying they look the same. If I do an experiment, I can't just grow cells in one condition and compare it to pictures of another condition grown by someone else.
I think you missed the point of my video because #1 it wasn't well organized and #2 you viewed it through the lens of Kaylee. My gripe with when she made her claim is she held up two plants one was growth from a mature cutting and one was deflasked. It's a very bad comparison. A vast majority of growth from mature cuttings has far better ratio than plants grown from seed or tc at the same leaf count. In my video I measure both types of growth and the evidence showed that the growth from mature cuttings had a far better ratio. Infact the mint mid cuttings ratio was so good Kaylee thought it couldn't possible be a mid cut. In my video I admitted I can't prove that theire isn't a difference between v1 and v2 but I can at least say Kaylees 'evidence' she showed her viewers was a bad example. Based on what I performed in my video. I think many people got hung up in my click bait title that was mirroring hers.
I really think if he was concerned with being “scientific “ he should have sought out a pre-2019 Thai cutting or plant to begin with, you can’t just make comparisons of the plants you have on hand from the past two or three years, a few random pics from Facebook, and say oh welp that’s debunked I’m right you’re wrong. Like what?? Also of course his plants are compact have you seen his set up? So many lights. Not saying that’s bad or that Kaylee’s set up doesn’t have enough lighting, just saying if you blast a plant from six sides with grow lights then yeah, it’s gonna grow compact because it doesn’t have to stretch at all for light. I’m not dissing Techplant in general I actually like some of his videos but I’m this case, I think it was a poor “debunking” and maybe just for clicks. Idk. Just my
I think his point was to show the claimed differences in the “2.0” can be found in any monstera depending on its origin and conditions not just based on the fact it was from post covid. Which may be a factor but as social media goes once you put the thought into people’s heads the run with it even if that was not was the intention was or if it was explicitly stated to NOT go Thai 1.0 hunting or start selling them as 1.0 for more. I think tech plant was trying to help the general public from dismissing what is now an accessible rare plant
Your framing of your opinion as what it actually is - a conclusion based on personal observation and reasoning - is extremely refreshing. I have spent the past couple years learning a lot about how 'science' works thanks to being a coauthor on a scientific paper currently in peer review. As a result I am basically at the point on the Dunning Kruger curve where I know how much I don't know. Speaking from that perspective: none of the plant TH-camr Thai Con analysis videos are 'scientific.' Even when people look up a scientific paper or send an email to an expert, or send a plant to be tested, they're not 'being scientific' in the way they're implying. They're forming and sharing an opinion. It's good that they're putting effort into fact finding and reasoning when forming their opinions, and that makes their arguments stronger, but they're not 'proving' anything. You literally cannot prove anything in science. You can fail to falsify a hypothesis. Ironically, you very clearly framing your assertion as a hunch is the most 'science' adjacent thing I have seen in this whole drama, because it's a precise and accurate representation of your position. That sort of speculation, clearly framed as speculation, is commonly seen and appropriately included in the discussion section of scientific papers.
Oh i usually like his videos but yeah this one has missed the mark This whole thing is waste of time if 50% of your data is just comparing from photos. No date? No plant ID? No health confirmation? Where in the world were these photos taken? Minimum he needs is one of each Thai Con actually in front of him with the understanding that its a terrible sample size. I can't believe he made this video only to then ask for a 1.0 at the end...
Your experience as a grower is why we watch your channel Kaylee… and your opinions (not science which you make perfectly clear on your channel for viewers) is what keeps people like me who have a hobby and love of plants watching. ❤ And you really show good examples of healthy Thai constellation plants 🥰
Love your hair! 😅 thanks for there video! I always love learning. I hope nobody takes the video as an attack, either direction. We can’t learn if people aren’t observing and processing.
You are correct. This is one thing I like about Tech Plant. He doesn't specify who's video he is referencing. He could very well have been referring to Pretty In Green's videos. I feel like some TH-cam drama is starting when he doesn't reference a specific TH-camr.
He has confirmed the video was about me in the response he made on his channel. Though I appreciate what you're saying- the comments he made about what plants I showed and the way I showed them- and what he said about my comment section directly relate to my video.
My college bestfriend's family owns a farm and they've been importing plants here in the PH for yearrrs, like more than 30 yrs already. They too think that older batches of Thai were different and I believe them lol
It would be better if we had access to an actual 1.0 Thai to compare. Comparing a green monstera makes no sense. He also was comparing a monstera mint cutting, which is neither large form or small - is intermediate form. It's totally irrelevant when talking about the Thai Con.
He has some points about the randomness of different monstera, but he pretty much did nothing in the video except measure random monstera, neither proving nor disproving anything. There are probably even more versions than 1.0 and 2.0 at this point, they are being TC'd by so many different companies. Probably tons of genetic variation by now and probably very different from the Thais of five+ years ago.
Yea, I feel like the Facebook pictures aren’t a great comparison and he needs to get his hands on the “1.0” to really prove anything but I think what he was trying to say was that the older Thai you showed had better ratios because it was grown from mature cuttings and the younger one had poor ratios because it was very young. I don’t think the gargantuan stems he showed were a fair comparison to the “1.0” you showed though. 🤷🏾♀️ I also think in one of the other videos he said something about the 1.0 vs 2.0 theory being dependent on 1 lab only using 1 mother plant. Is that how it works?Did all Thais pre-2019 come from the same exact mother plant from the same lab? He also pointed out that a lot of the issues with the rotting could be coming from people babying their recently deflasked Thais to death since plants are more fragile at that stage. Certainly a thought provoking discussion. I’m enjoying the back and forth amongst creators. I got a very small highly variegated TC last summer and have had no rotting issues so far and the petiole ratios seem good. 🤷🏾♀️
You are correct that he doesn’t have Thai 1.0. He may not even have 2.0.. furthermore, unless he is a biologist or horticulturalist, I think it’s misleading (by him) to even call his experiments truly scientific. I also never understand why he trills other YT’ers who have fewer subscribers than he has. Why is he so damned competitive?
damn, the subtle jab at Kaylee. I think I would call their channels to be of similar size, there are not many plant youtubers (anymore) in the similar range and 10% difference should be enough to group them together.
I’ve been watching both sides of these and honestly the back and forth has been very entertaining. But also neither sides have come up with any evidence other than observations. Unless we can definitely get genetics differentiating the two it doesn’t matter. A Thai is a Thai and I’m beyond grateful to have mine. I really don’t see why these videos exist or why it’s an issue as the majority of us are lucky if we can even have a Thai. Videos likes these are where the plant community starts to feel like it’s gate keeping because if we never had an insanely expensive Thai 1.0 which apparently isn’t available anymore completely segregates the opinions of everyone else who didn’t have fun’s or access to this “better Thai”
Ok I finish this video and I had already watched his. His was simply to point out to people who can now get access to the affordable “2.0” Thais that they are JUST as good as the previously expensive and elusive pre covid 1.0 Thai’s if anything g you BOTH seem to be coming from the same stand point that a Thai is a Thai is a Thai. He even said he didn’t have a 1.0 but he did the scientific measurements and comparisons to a normal monstera and large form and albo a d showed that a monstera is a monstera and like you said in your videos people should NOT be going out hunting for a “1.0” because you can get the same good results from the post covid Thais. Id honestly love to see a collab between you two on this topic to really drive home that these are still THAIS instead of seeing you two bicker through videos back and forth. There’s nothing myself, as a viewer and part of the plant community, hates more than to see creators I love arguing over things that mean nothing to the general population. Make a collab video discussing it, hash it out in one video then let’s move on to the great care and informational content we subscribed to please❤
@@hannakierstead289 True that. I'm so done about bickering of ANYTHING right now even Thai's. I'm like this.......who in the heck cares but the ones's bickering........right?? I feel as though since the price of the Thai's have come down in prices now and you see one at Walmart or where ever.......and that has always been on your wishlist.......BUY IT! Who cares if it's 1.0, 2.0.....tissue culture as long as you love it, treat it well and give it tender loving care! Life is TOO short. If it brings a smile on your face everyday..........you my friend have made the right choice and be grateful!
I agree with Kaylee!!!! As soon as she posted the Thai 1.0 and 2.0, I have my old Thai straight from Thailand 5 years ago and they have shorter petioles and leaf is huge! Compared to my fast growing tc Thai.
I have both plants. I accidentally left Thai 1.0 in my garage (unheated) while I was on vacation in January. The temp was 38 high and 17 low. I lost 1/2 a leaf (cream section). My 2.0 lost three leaves when I lost my greenhouse heater at 52 degrees... THERE'S A DIFFERENCE!!
24ish minutes in, where you thought he said "mid cut" I think he was saying "mint". But yeah there's several plot holes and question marks in his video 😅
@@KayleeEllenOfficialNo you aren’t, if you look at the pot around 24:44, you can see the original chunk around the left side of the base. All three leaves of the plant are grown from the bud of the node, and the original leaf have already faded.
@@northliu1196 exactly and as a mint mid-cut from a potential large form which would size up faster in comparison to a small form! That information is critical to the point being madebso without that info it cannot be used as a comparable example in my 🧅
@@KayleeEllenOfficial its a mint mid cutting lol, I may have slurred my words. I posted a new video to clarify and show the mint plant just cuz im proud of it
I totally get your view of 1.0 vs. 2.0. The new specimens ending up in big box stores are not from the same mother plant as the originals. They are weaker and much more prone to root rot. If he wants to prove his point, he needs to obtain a physical selection of actual 1.0 plants to show in his video. What we are talking about here is new batches of Thai that are now coming from a different mother plant than the originals.
Yeah, I get your points and can sympathize with making of this video, but accusing someone of lying for no reason (mint monstera cutting) is not a good look. Especially that you've been proven wrong the same day. I've been defending you in the comments for years, but here I'm team Tech Plant Guy (not that you care, I know).
Ehhh I still love you both. 😂 I agree with others, I watched because I enjoy everything you put out, but I really have little interest in Thai Con controversy. I have 2 of the newer ones and they’re beautiful and hardy so I’m happy.
So glad you addressed this...I don't know why this guy is so adamant there is no distinction between Thai 1.0 and 2.0...even I have seen the difference and I am just a hobby gardener
I hate to come on and start my comment with as a scientist but AS A SCIENTIST…. His so called research was extraordinarily poor. He basically was comparing apples to oranges to pears. He wasn’t giving the viewer any kind of complete information about the plants he was showing as evidence. If anything he was just doing a lot of science looking things. Not actual science itself AS A SCIENTIST… you don’t start with your conclusions you start with your hypothesis and you let the evidence tell you whether you are right or wrong… “internet scientist” rubbed me the wrong way!!!
Funny thing 1.0 , 2.0, 3.0 Don't complicate the specimen of the Thai Constellation. FYI Monstera Creme Brulee named by famous collector of monstera variegated in U.S. not from Thailand. Buy specimens from reputable plant collector who named the specimen based on the fact and origins.
From what I have seen of him, he has never proved anything but has a tendency to attack other content creators for not knowing what they are talking about. I watched these vids and the vids by the other creator that responded and called him out. He literally comes off like a child sticking his fingers in his ears.
100% agreed! I had the exact same impression from the videos I have seen of his. A grown-man child trying to act non-emotional when it's clearly emotionally motivated if he's made 4 videos about it 😂
His main point stands--comparing leaf to petiole ratios on plants grown from cuttings off a mature plant to ratios on plants grown from seed or tc is like comparing apples to oranges. It doesn't tell you much. It would be interesting to compare these ratios on plants of a similar maturity.
I think his point of bringing up the fenestrations was to point out that Ben's plant was more mature so it would produce better leaves with better ratios regardless of the crap conditions even if it is Thai 1.0. The problem is that you've already mentioned that there was a problem with your method because the plant that you were comparing was more juvenile and you'd show it again when they're more mature. All in all, his video wasn't as scientific as he wanted it to be and you said it was from personal experience.
I do not have a thai, because I don't have room for a tree in my home. That being said, I've been collecting plants for a decade --- I remember them having the reputation for being utterly bombproof. Thai used to be pretty much immune to neglect, and root rot wasn't a thing unless you made a legit effort. And then there's now. What more proof do you need?
I think it varies on location and your care too. I have a friend with an earlier one and it always looks very sickly compared to ones I got few years after hers, however the one I got arrive here in the middle of an Australian heat wave so of course they absolutely struggled and I lost a few (I had 7 plants as birthday gifts and all but two survived via switching over to hydroponics as a last resort.) Since then we have both gotten another one each and they're doing spectacular because we didn't get them in the summer and those other three plants between us are only just getting off the struggle bus. So yeah, time of year and all of that makes a huge difference in how the plant is going to cope too.
The only way to "scientifically" debunk these theories - The test must follow the following conditions: 1. Each specimen of V1 and V2 is confirmed + verified. 2. Each specimen samples must be of the same or similar maturity. ( ie how old the chonk used) 3. Each specimen samples of V1 and V2 must be similar in terms of: flask grown, chonk grown, top-mid-bottom cuttings or aerial propagation (of similar maturity). 4. The testing of both (similar maturity v1 and v2) must be tested in similar conditions and simultaneously. 5. Root system of samples compared must be similar. 6. Growing multiple sample comparison must be replicated numerous times and data collected or averages, mean and extreme figures scientifically analysed (I would prefer critical analysis of data set). Talking wishy washy memories, data set of timelined fb pictures - is NOT scientific. Talking about it from experience - without having a huge data of similar samples - is also NOT scientific. So if its not scientific. (Whether you claim it or not), then those theories are as good as old wives tale. It could be true. It could not be true. UNLESS PROVEN with scientific data sets that can be analysed. Not some random data sets that doesnt correlate with proving and debunking what is fact to fiction. SCIENTIFIC means you have COHERENT DATA sets to analyse from. Without that, its NOT scientific. I could write a thesis about this. But il stop here. By the way, ive been told by all society that religion is real. My question is: Why did religion not exist before humans ? GOOD bye internet.
I totally agree with you … it was your opinion I didn’t see anything wrong with your opinion and I even agree with your opinion… he definitely doesn’t have a 1.0 I have a 2.0 but mine is in Leca with a wick and growing lovely … no issues the only issue I’m having is to much variegation even though I bought it with barely any in a 2 inch pot…. As I’ve seen it grow it actually grows very similar too 1.0 after almost a year but I can’t speak for every plant the ratio on mine are great…. It might be the conditions Back too the video this guy is full of shit …
First off, stunning hair lol. It’s a shame that something mentioned as anecdotal was taken that way. I think it’s great that he put that effort into trying to not make 1.0 v 2.0 a thing (same as you) but it fell short for me. Adding to the anecdotal evidence here, until you mentioned the 1.0v2.0 I had always wondered why the Thai I got pre COVID was always a beast and the one I got in 2022 was pretty whimpy. Different growers and possible mothers and all that, but it rang true for me 🤷🏻♂️
I have many 2.0 and 1.0. There is absolutely a difference. For me, the 2.0 grows a bit differently but is definitely less hardy, and that goes for their eventual cuttings as well. My 1.0s and their cuttings are hardier and even feel even feel more sturdy or stronger, idk. But there’s a clear difference that’s easy to pick up on once you’ve worked with both for so long. I understand this is anecdotal, but there you go. That’s my experience 🤷♂️
It was interesting to see this because i agree that his comparisons to me weren't true. The Deliciosa's got me because it really looked like there was a small form in there purely based on the growth pattern. I could be wrong but 🤷🏾♀️. All the way around though i love to see people experiment and their opinions of the plants they grow in their own conditions, it leads to good conversations but i don't think he proved anything there.
I'd like to first start off by saying I absolutely love your videos. They're so informational and they've helped me out so much throughout my growing process with my plants. My question is though, how do I get your nutrients? I live in the US and I would totally love to try your nutrient because your plants look absolutely amazing and I want mine to thrive like yours. Thank you in advance!
Also, there’s a third variety of Monstera sold at big box stores as MD, that might be perceived as small firm, but a research paper actually identified as its own variety and not borsegiana though often confused with it, which has a super long petiole. I’m blanking on the ID, and potentially, his leggy green MD could actually be this third variety being sold as a Deliciosa.
Send him a cutting of your Thai 1.0 pleaaaaasse!!! Cuz I love this ongoing discussion, I don’t want it to end. He couldn’t compare the two because he doesn’t have one….
Funny enough, I was just showing your 1.0 vs 2.0 video 2 day back to my friend. Why? Cuz both big Thais we got from a shop got massive root rot after putting in a airy mix. Right? Airy... and all rotten now. Rerooting in perlite and praying haha
If it fails, rescue it with full hydro. I've done that as a last resort and it saved my plants. I only potted them up once I was happy the roots filled the entire jars they were in and they're doing great. Mine arrived in the heat of the Australian summer so they weren't having none of my help to ajust to thier environment (and i lost quite a few before going hydroponic to save the last 2. It was a decent rescue but also highlighted the fact the ones I had gotten didn't have great roots either when shipped out and needed more time to grow them properly which is a common thing with some vining plants.)
I have T1 TC a cutting from an old.local.mother plant...mine is over 4 years old... under my conditions....the petioles have regulated at 24" to 25" with leaves between 18.5" and 19.5" with consecutive leaves getting bigger....the petiole.size has regulated...so not a leggy plant🙏 I totally agree with you
I just bought a Thaicon and a Deliciosa from a Thailand TC lab (I bought it from a live seller in the lab). Allegedly, it was unrelease tc specimens from 2019 since it doesn't have enough fenestration; specifically holes in the mid ribs. They just kept them in the lab to grow and neglect it since according to them it doesnt fit the standard look of the monstera that time. I can tell there's a significant difference from that specimens to the monstera in the current market. The leaves looks thicker, rounder and bigger. The leaf and stem ratio is also looks smaller, it looks more compact. I would definitely say that newer batches of monstera now looks different 5 to 6 years ago.
As an actual scientist (in my younger years) I always smile when people say anything about being "scientific". And another thing, never mind my wife I want to know your hair routine.
I like TechPlant's intent with a lot of what he shows. Sometimes I'd say the execution falls short. Even so, I'm not aware of many channels that try experiments, and that's something I enjoy. He tends to have shorter content with a more peppy feel than most channels which is fun. I think I agree with all the points Kaylee made. She seems very rational when discussing topics, and that's probably the key thing that brings me to her channel. I like watching a variety of plant personalities, as you get different interests and perspectives. I don't really get excited about rare plants, but getting glimpses of them from a pro is neat. Her fiery wit is what keeps me coming back. As for the Thai drama, whether involvement has been intentional or not, it's probably good exposure for the channels involved, so long as they stay respectful and provide something relevant with each video. A little back-and-forth can be fun. Maybe we'll even get some answers about Thai's if this goes long enough. I enjoy the pursuit of truth, so I'm all for it. Cheers! 💚🧀
I have to agree I got lucky and got an older one and I have neglected the crud out of it and it's just chillen lol and I've seen people buy the newer ones locally and complain about root rot so I dunno. I think the mother plant on the older ones was a beast lol
I think he is saying that the older gen are just older plants and that's why they have the ratio they do. As in the newer tissue culture plants are different in ratio because they are less mature plants. Would love to see a comparison with a real 1.0 Thai! Maybe you could do an experiment
I know this, i have 3 big monsteras in my garden for years. After i show your videos, you made me want to buy my first Thai and after that an albo. Enjoying everytime seeing your contents...the guy made me having headache and confused! You have it...keep up the good work.
That was a very weird video... like I'm not sure he knew what he was trying to show. Best guess is, he wanted to show that there are more factors to take into consideration when comparing "old" and "new" batches - which is correct. It's just not conclusive for anything - just because there goes more into cars than speed, doesn't mean we cannot compare cars at all. He doesn't even suggest any points that could be compared instead. But honestly, he was doing a Dunning-Kruger effect. You point out several obvious factors that go into how a Monstera grows that he isn't aware of, yet compares them as if "nobody knows why they are different". Like, no dude, YOU don't know the difference between a head-cutting, mid-cutting, a small Monstera vs. one growing out of a trunk as thicker than an arm... Unfortunatly the only ones REALLY being able to resolve this conflict, are the people making the Thais, as only they know what or if they did anything different before and after. And for the rest of us, as there is no official statement, we just gonna pick whatever Thai we can get and make the best out of it.
Not sure what the point of your comment was tbh. Are you saying you agree with what he said after listening to him, or that you blindly support him no matter what he says? I like some creators, but I don't blindly agree with them on everything. His experiment wasn't very scientific here. In this instance he didn't do a great job. That doesn't make him a bad person. He was just mistaken. It's fine to acknowledge he made a mistake but also still support his channel.
Comparing small form with large form, prop box conditions vs shop conditions, huge chonks vs younger/more immature specimens, not actually showing 1.0 vs 2.0 (as far as I can tell) and so on is so irritating to me. Techplants' video didn't seem as well thought out as they may have hoped and almost feels as though they had many ideas regarding this topic - then got a little carried away. There are far too many inconsistencies with his video, especially as it claimed to be scientific so many times. That said, I enjoy both yours and Techplants' videos and I appreciated this back-and-forth!
So there are now tea pages on plant channels? How lame😒 I thought the purpose of growing plants was to de-stress, encourage wellness and learn to nurture a living thing. Now we got TH-cam "plant influencers" doing shady videos about other TH-cam"plant influencers" for engagement and views. Throw whole scene away🚮 I hate how social media influencers and TH-camrs have spread their superficiality into areas that started out as healthy activities and communities. I see it in the natural hair community and now in the plant community. What activity will influencers latch on to next to suck dry? Why does every community that you all infiltrate turn into a snarky mess?
First of all... amazing haircut love the waves. On the old videos you look like a baby 😍 And on the subject matter Im excited that there is beef in the plant community 😂😂😂. I agree with you absolutely hideos to debunk something when you haven't even seen one of the specimens in person 😂. Why don't you make a project proving your point taking a cuttings from your old mothers and some from the new, and you can even test the feed on them! Concider that idea plz😅
I'd be okay with Techplants videos if he presented them as his own opinion/observation. The problem is he treats his opinions like they are the objective scientific fact and that anyone who disagrees is stupid or trying to scam their customers. The reality is, he has no more evidence than anyone else, and arguably has even less than people like you who at least own both plants and handled hundreds through your store. I am a PhD student in science and it really bothers me how he keeps asserting he did something scientific just because he did a few random measurements of one of the two types of plants involved and then looked at a picture of another. Doing a proper scientific study might be unrealistic, but that doesn't mean you can squint at a some old Facebook photos and claim you have indisputable scientific evidence. He made a number of false claims from a scientific perspective about tissue culture as well... honestly I find his entire attitude really damaging from a scientific perspective. One of the most important parts about science is being precise about what you can and cannot know from your data, and he doesn't grasp this in any way. I think its also damaging from a community perspective how he paints other creators as dumb/scammers and himself as a rational authority when really, everyone is just making informed guesses based on what they've seen personally. Its such a nasty attitude
Definitely, that guy doesn't have any clue of what he's he talking about. You can't make a comparison with only pictures. that's ridiculous. I've had the 1.0 and the 2.0, and they're totally different.
He has a strong cognitive bias to begin with and equates his anecdotal evidence to scientific evidence. His presentation style screams ADHD unhinged. He’s gone down a rabbit hole without considering the periphery of the topic at hand. Indeed, getting proper 1.0 and 2.0 and doing a clinical trial, double blinded with control group, done by a third party in a clinical setting, is the only way for him to properly prove or disprove his idea. Numerous times he shows his ignorance as to how plants work. The thick Monstera cutting is an example. He doesn’t understand how dormant buds respond the hormone auxin, along with the enormous amount of stored carbohydrate in that stem. He’s a classic example of someone having a little bit of knowledge and thinking they know everything
The only thing debunked here was his video. 😅 OK let say Kaylee you made up names and created drama just for the sake of content (which I believe is not), isn't he doing what he accused you of doing? Making entire video to react of things you said Instead of letting it go or just adress it in passing in one of his other video. Entire videos to debunk something that "isn't true" or scientific base for content purposes as in the end all that science based video was based on science either 😅. After watching this I honestly think your opinion based on hundreds and hundreds of Thai coming through your shop over the years is more valid than his poor comparison of old, sick looking, selected by himself old Thais to compare it to green plant bought in a shop could be anything really (different form or even type) compare to 1 meter trunk cutting to your small node cutting.. 😅 I don't want to be mean but I didn't see science in either video the only difference is kaylee never claimed science to begin with 🤷🏼♂️ Mr Tech I guess you will have to make a 5th videos about Thai, for someone who calls other content creator out about making things up for content sake and or marketing purposes you surely do have a lot of content on the same matter.. Just saying 😅
People, thai 1 is older than thai 2. For an accurate comparison, you'd have to tc thai 1 and compare it to tc'd thai 2. This would be done in large numbers with tc produced from the same conditions. You can't do that. All that these videos are squawking about is that older tc has bigger leaves. Duh. Thai 1 has become this mythical unicorn that people are now searching for and that's silly. They're just getting cuttings from old established plants.
Regardless of who is right, why was he being so backhanded? Constantly making comments about not listening to what you hear on the internet. While he’s doing the same thing and marketing it “science.”
Hey, I love you both. I think you guys both have a ton to offer this hobby/lifestyle/market whatever it does for you.. however the internet is gonna inter net people are gonna people human gonna human… you gotta know when you put something out to the world is gonna get taken used and abused because people. Just sayin I think he is trying to do damage control and that’s it. Did he do a great job. No. So send him some cuttings, work together and get answers. Great content for us. Great money for you guys win win. Love you both again ;)
Love watching your videos Kaylee, I always get good energy from you. Hope you keep doing what you love! Love hearing your thoughts and opinions always!
I don't think he's presenting the case he thinks he is. It's just not a scientific approach. There are two many variables he can't account for whereas yours was more informal (you clearly said, not scientific, just a perception) and about one aspect.
KayleeEllen you’re so tactful I love how you presented this ❤ just goes to show don’t attack without proper evidence, especially if you’re trying to be “scientific “ sounds like his audience give him a hard time as well, there’s so many things he says that don’t make sense, where’s the science
I feel like he needs to actually measure and compare an old Thai con to a new one though 😅 You can’t just “debunk” it by showing crappy pictures of old Thais lmao.
I'm writing a pinned comment here as a general response to everyone. I know Techplant has been responding a lot on both videos (which he has the right to do so). I just want to give a bit more context:
My opinions I express on this video obviously still stand. I believe if Techplant wanted to show the differences between large cuttings and deflasked TC plants that's one thing - but using the title he chose has led people to a lot of confusion as he is saying he has effectively mythbusted/debunked 1.0/2.0 in the title. In my opinion saying "hey you can't compare these two things" is completely valid - but it doesn't debunk the original observation I made. It simply says hey you need to not make this comparison as it's not a proper comparison.
I respect he tried to show us why. My confusion came from the fact that he made the claim that a recently deflasked plant from TC was unlikely to be anywhere near as compact as growth from a cutting and therefore not comparable - after showing us some extremely compact looking deflasked thai constellation at the beginning of the video. This shows us that indeed you can indeed have an extremely compact deflasked thai constellation. He also identified that the amount of variegation on a thai (which we know is chaotic as hell so there's a headache for literally anyone trying to figure things out) - seems to make a difference. - there's a headache of a variable.
We were also shown Monstera deliciosa in comparisons that were seed grown which adds another variable in the mix. In addition to this, the compared cuttings were grown in a prop box - which is undoubtedly a significant change from the environment the other plants appear to be growing in - people use prop boxes for a reason - another variable.
Again my video was not scientific. It was based on 5 years experience selling hundreds if not thousands of thai constellation. I was also taking into account other things I've heard from growers/suppliers, the condition of thai Ive seen in person in thai nurseries and some things I've speculated over when it came to the Costa Farms fiasco that I spoke about. I completely acknowledge that I just threw a statement out there on a video but I did my best to make sure people knew it was a personal opinion. I dont feel I can do much more than that.
I will say I'm not the biggest fan of Techplants title on his response video - he clearly knows what he's doing but if that's how he wants to get people to watch his content that's entirely his choice. It's the internet! Personally I just think it doesn't help people who are speculating this is all drama. No shade from me - it's TH-cam, were both TH-camrs, it's how it is.
The things I've mentioned above are things that have led me to the opinions I have. I dont "hate" Techplant or anything of the sort. I want to remind people that you can have discussions on the internet and it not be drama. It's drama if someone crosses a line but in my opinion neither I or Techplant have - any nastiness caused has actually come from members of one or both fanbases.
Feel free to disagree with either one of us but please - you don't need to make it nasty when neither of us have.
Oh - one other thing because I know people have been asking: I will look into making a full-on experiment with a pre 2019 thai, a 2020 thai and a 2023 thai as I have those. Needless to say there will be limitations of that experiment but I will acknowledge those appropriately.
I really like this, there are some great point about flaws in my data gathering that can be improved. I also appreciate the time you took to do all this.
Looking forward to any future content on the subject! I'm also going to attempt some new stuff around these plants and I will be fun to see if we can get some nice results that would really show the difference or no difference. Either way I'm excited!
You kind of started it though with the title of the videos Kaylee don't act like you didn't! For the same reason !
@synchronartcity5919 so you're saying Techplant can have his opinion.. but I cant? Even though his video was based on quite literally my opinion? Make it make sense 😆
@@KayleeEllenOfficial no I'm saying don't victimize yourself by saying you didn't like his video title when you are playing the same game and started it. I've been watching you for years from before you had the shop you're at now. Just felt all this was unnecessary. You literally had him on your thumbnail with a snarky "no." We know the game you're playing. Lol
@synchronartcity5919 lol OK. Not going to waste my time talking to someone who's mind is not open to any kind of discussion.
So is this an episode of.....Thai tea?! :D
👏 👏
Lol basically
😂😂🎉
As others have said, you and Techplant are my two favorite plant creators -- would love to see more back-and-forth between you two! That said, even if you were to compare the 1.0 and 2.0 directly (which he didn't do), "age" would be another confounding variable because the 1.0 would be more mature. Perhaps a better way would be to use tissue culture to clone a 1.0 and 2.0 and then grow those specimens in the same conditions to compare the rate of development, heartiness, physiological characteristics, etc.
Upon moving to Florida in 2022 my interest in rare/tropical/variegated, etc. plants was sparked. In March '23 I found a HUGE Monstera Thai Constellation (~20+ft of 4in. thick stem with 6 heads- twas Crawler, duh) that was planted in the ground, established, and thriving underneath some palms. East facing the coast, uncared for, and severely damaged from exposure to the elements- ripped leaves from wind blowing it through the fence, sunburned, and just unkempt, in need of TLC. So I pruned a few damaged pieces, removed/propagated a few good top cuts(4), and some mid cuts(3) over a few weeks. This was my intro to, and education of, Monstera (all aroids). Because I learned from experience through trial-and-error by propagating Giant Thai Con head cuts and huge unrooted stems, caring for and propagating other aroids, monstera especially, became much easier and more natural for me than most other growers. That being said, my XL Thai con plants are quite obviously pre-2019, pre-covid, pre-(alleged)thai2.0, pre-thai con being mass produced and prices dropping, etc. It's undoubtedly an original Thai Constellation, likely from the late 1990s- early 2000s. Age assessment made confidently based on the size of the plant and when it was found. Now, the point, Every single plant that I have propagated from this "found, Original 1.0" Thai Con, head- or mid- cut, the ratio of petiole-to-leaf size it about 1:1, or 100%. Consistently. At worst: 85%, at best 115% (sometimes more) amount of variegation irrelevant(pics of proof, tc with 65% sectoral variegation, solid off-white. Leaf about 46in in length, petiole under 41in). Whether it is the original leaf of that piece, the first new leaf, or 5th, the ratio persists. External factors, 2 get natural sunlight only, 2 get both natural and artifical, 2 get only artificial from grow lights, and the ratio persists: (.85-1.15)/1 or 85-115% leaf to petiole. Substrates: some in junk- lava rocks, pine bark nuggets, and whatever soil(or mulch) I had available at the time. Doing great BTW. Others in Premium soil blend like Foxfarm OFPS. Some in Leca/ semi hydro. The ratio seems to become the Rule. The one exception to Rule is sub-prime conditions leading to an unhealthy plant causing abnormal/less then usual new growth. Sub-prime conditions include: Extreme temperatures, major fluctuation in RH, under/over watering, any undesirable substrate conditions (bad mix, too fine, too coarse, too dense, nutrient abundance or deficiencies, pests, bacteria or viral infection, hydrophobic, whatever) that causes the newest leaf to grow either puny or deformed. Example, winter dropped to below 60°F by me, the leaf that unfurled in December is 60% the size of the leaf before and after it. External factors that changed over winter include temperature, watering schedule, and amount of light (less hours, less intense). I do not have a small sample of this plant. Smallest prop has a 3.25in diameter stem and produced a first new leaf of 12in or larger.
My newer Thais that i acclimated from tissue culture myself are still small, just beginning to mature. Purchased 2023, long after the alleged "Thai2.0" became a thing. They are in the early stages of fenestrating: first slits, and a hole or 2. All are under more than adequate grow lights, most in semi hydro, except one. One is in soil, Foxfarm OFPS. And, keeping mind the level of maturity, ALL of the newer, (potentially Thai2.0) adhear to a different ratio. First 2-3 Baby leafs are 1:3 leaf-to-petiole, juvenile leafs(first 1 or 2 after acclimation) ratio averages at 1:2. Once completely acclimated, ratio increases to 2:3. Leaf is consistently 2/3 the length of the petiole.
Recap:
A Healthy*, Original (pre-2019 pre- Covid), very large in size, and fully matured Thai Constellation, in various substrates and under varied optimal conditions, consistently produced a Leaf-to-Petiole ratio of within 15%(+/-) of 1:1. In other words. They are about the same size.
Newer Thai Cons (post-2019, after Covid) under similar optimal conditions, established/rooted but still small and not yet mature, is producing a leaf-to-petiole ratio that is gradually getting closer to being the same. Starting a leaf one third the size of the petiole, then half 1:2, and finally 2:3. Newer, juvenile Thais(2.0😂) with a leaf size up to 66% the length of the petiole, the ratio has doubled in 4-5 leafs. Currently shy of the Golden Ratio of 1:1, but moving on the right direction.
Updates to follow as the newer Thais begin mature.
Side note*: in my experience, cutting any established plant, one that has a fully grown root system, will grow/ produce new leafs that are larger, more mature, and with a better variegation- or chance of, in less time and in fewer leafs.
Thanks for reading. Good luck yall 👍
Very nice, thanks for taking the time to write this up!
Overlooked high point: the suppressed glee with which he used that tape measure and did the maths. Loved it.
I’m in the Kaylee camp. Experience with hundreds of plants over the whole period in question counts for a lot. Testing the wrong plants, alas, does not. Much fun though. Appreciated 🤣
Yes, the guy’s non-verbal body language, facial expressions and choice of words certainly conveyed a sense of condescension. BTW, I believe that Kaylee has a masters degree in a computer science field and it seems to me that she is fairly logical in thought processes.
The fact that we went from Pink Princess over Pink Princess Marble to Pink Princess Marble Schmarble Fantasy Galaxy proves pretty well that there are different batches of TC, taken from different mother plants. It's pretty obvious that the same happened with the Thai Constellation and the Creme Brulee. It's quite plausible that there were multiple different batches that didn't get an extra name because they only had minor differences.
There is no denying there will be difference between TC batches, and even between plantlets from the same mother plant.
The most important question here is: are those differences important enough to the plant community to give different plants different names?
@@northliu1196 Kaylee literally said multiple times in her original videos that she doesn't want people to go around and make these names a thing. She reiterated it here multiple times again.
@@andyx6827Yes, that’s her opinion, and I agree with her opinion on that. But the problem is a lot of people don’t hold that opinion. And my original question is more toward those people.
@@northliu1196 andy seems pretty worked up over the "disagreement" (lashing out elsewhere). It seems like a number of the viewers here are taking this as a personal attack on Kaylee and are jumping to her defense. I don't think TechPlant or Kaylee look at it that way.
I personally don't have interest in a lot of rare or variegated plants. In particular, Thai Con isn't one that's called out to me. Even so, now that the idea's been posed, I'm pretty interested in what differences may exist. v1 and v2 are pretty simple names for differentiating between two plants with claimed differences. There's a reason she used those labels. I think her main point was that she didn't want to be pulled into drama surrounding these "made up names concocted by Kaylee Ellen".
Going back to your question, I'd say it depends on what someone is able to prove with a proper experiment. Then maybe a more official name than v1/v2(v3?) can be used for each plant.
@@cheesechaos I completely agree with you.
It’s sad that the content creator are having light hearted discussions. And their fans are trying to tear each others apart.
you both should do a live chat together. hype it up and market the hell out of it. im here for the fun plant drama
Itd be more scientific if he maybe
- reached out to nse/ree gardens or any other notable growers and purchased a cutting of old stock
- propagated it back until it was about the size of his 2.0 plants
- compared the growth between them over a years time in identical conditions
This, exactly.
Holy cats I've never been more excited to watch a video!
You should be ashamed of yourself for stirring unnecessary drama.
@@andyx6827 Ur doing too much XD
@@andyx6827don‘t attack someone for disagreeing. Unnecessary.
lol 😂
Grow the fuck up @@andyx6827
I believe I was one of the first people in Germany to own a large Thai Constellation. None of the plants in his video are from the first generation. I got mine as a larger plant around 2018/19. There are definitely differences compared to the newer generations.
And the difference is that... they're younger.
Agree.
So, I've been growing the earlier version of Thai Constellation since 2020, and yes they are different from the ones that came from the later batch. Since I live in Indonesia, I put all of them outside and almost care-free, now the earlier batch of ThaiCons are striving while none of the later has survived.
My subjective opinion about them is in line with what Kaylee has said about the plant in her videos.
I totally agree
I got one of the 2.0 plants from Walmart and I was actually impressed with it not being leggy or awkward. But then again I don't really care either way, they are such pretty plants and I couldn't have afforded to buy one before.
I agree that this guy did not disprove your observed differences between pre- and post-2019 Thai Constellations because he didn’t even measure any pre-2019 plants.
The two “studies” have been designed differently.
Questions posed also seem different and even divergent.
The other guy who did not have a pre-2019 Thai constellation tried to account for this by getting pictures of pre-2019 plant with a post-2019 plant by the other guy is not equivalent. If this guy went through effort to measure the plants he had in possession, it is not a fair comparison because he didn’t even measure the pre-2019 Thai constellation monsteras.
The most reasonable thing to do is to have your pre-2019 Monstera Thai constellation tissue cultured, send him some of your tissue cultured pre-2019 Monstera Thai Constellation so that this guy can compare your pre-2019’s with his tissue cultured post 2019 Thai Constellation monsteras.
agreed, as for him being "scientific" any scientist watching his video will discount it cause it not scientific it's just observations based on internet pictures.
I have both generation Thai’s. One from 2018 and one from this year and can definitely tell the difference. The original one is virtually bomb proof and the newer one is quite finicky with longer petioles.
I love that He said he wants to take a “scientific approach” and then makes a video using only a tape measure and not even comparing the two plants in question 🙄😂
exactly! you can't be saying it's scientific and than just looking at unverified pictures, not even trying to do some measuring on them (I know that's very difficult), and then just saying they look the same. If I do an experiment, I can't just grow cells in one condition and compare it to pictures of another condition grown by someone else.
@@joklazen right!? lol he was complaining about her just comparing their appearance and then did the same thing and called it “scientific” 😂
He's so dumb
I think you missed the point of my video because #1 it wasn't well organized and #2 you viewed it through the lens of Kaylee.
My gripe with when she made her claim is she held up two plants one was growth from a mature cutting and one was deflasked. It's a very bad comparison. A vast majority of growth from mature cuttings has far better ratio than plants grown from seed or tc at the same leaf count.
In my video I measure both types of growth and the evidence showed that the growth from mature cuttings had a far better ratio. Infact the mint mid cuttings ratio was so good Kaylee thought it couldn't possible be a mid cut.
In my video I admitted I can't prove that theire isn't a difference between v1 and v2 but I can at least say Kaylees 'evidence' she showed her viewers was a bad example. Based on what I performed in my video. I think many people got hung up in my click bait title that was mirroring hers.
@@TechplantChannel you're so dumb nobody even knows who that girl is
I really think if he was concerned with being “scientific “ he should have sought out a pre-2019 Thai cutting or plant to begin with, you can’t just make comparisons of the plants you have on hand from the past two or three years, a few random pics from Facebook, and say oh welp that’s debunked I’m right you’re wrong. Like what?? Also of course his plants are compact have you seen his set up? So many lights. Not saying that’s bad or that Kaylee’s set up doesn’t have enough lighting, just saying if you blast a plant from six sides with grow lights then yeah, it’s gonna grow compact because it doesn’t have to stretch at all for light. I’m not dissing Techplant in general I actually like some of his videos but I’m this case, I think it was a poor “debunking” and maybe just for clicks. Idk. Just my
I agree. Thank you for resurrecting the oponion! 😆
@@KayleeEllenOfficialI love the oponion !! Lol it’s a classic
He started with a conclusion, and then looked for things to support his conclusion. The opposite of scientific.
What would be “scientific”?
It's a youtube video. How is he supposed to start lol.
@@moritlh Thank you.
Yah, except basically, every scientist begins with a theory.
You are supposed to start with a hypothesis… which he did.
My two plant content creators in one video (who ever was planterina?) YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
You were very clear in your video saying that this was your observations and experiences with Thai Cons 👍😀🇨🇦
Me thinks he didn't listen very well to what you said in that video 🤦♀You were simply making an observation 🌱🌸 🌺
I think he said “mint cutting” not “mid cutting” but I could be wrong.
That's what I thought too
its just my thick midwestern accent. it is actually both a mint and mid so maybe i was sluring lol
@@TechplantChannel hey! I love your channel! Thanks for clarifying 😊
Yea that’s what I heard too. Mint* not mid 😅
Do not think techplant did a great job on this recent video although he is usually much more methodical and a channel I highly recommend
I think his point was to show the claimed differences in the “2.0” can be found in any monstera depending on its origin and conditions not just based on the fact it was from post covid. Which may be a factor but as social media goes once you put the thought into people’s heads the run with it even if that was not was the intention was or if it was explicitly stated to NOT go Thai 1.0 hunting or start selling them as 1.0 for more. I think tech plant was trying to help the general public from dismissing what is now an accessible rare plant
Your framing of your opinion as what it actually is - a conclusion based on personal observation and reasoning - is extremely refreshing. I have spent the past couple years learning a lot about how 'science' works thanks to being a coauthor on a scientific paper currently in peer review. As a result I am basically at the point on the Dunning Kruger curve where I know how much I don't know. Speaking from that perspective: none of the plant TH-camr Thai Con analysis videos are 'scientific.' Even when people look up a scientific paper or send an email to an expert, or send a plant to be tested, they're not 'being scientific' in the way they're implying. They're forming and sharing an opinion. It's good that they're putting effort into fact finding and reasoning when forming their opinions, and that makes their arguments stronger, but they're not 'proving' anything. You literally cannot prove anything in science. You can fail to falsify a hypothesis. Ironically, you very clearly framing your assertion as a hunch is the most 'science' adjacent thing I have seen in this whole drama, because it's a precise and accurate representation of your position. That sort of speculation,
clearly framed as speculation, is commonly seen and appropriately included in the discussion section of scientific papers.
Oh i usually like his videos but yeah this one has missed the mark
This whole thing is waste of time if 50% of your data is just comparing from photos. No date? No plant ID? No health confirmation? Where in the world were these photos taken?
Minimum he needs is one of each Thai Con actually in front of him with the understanding that its a terrible sample size.
I can't believe he made this video only to then ask for a 1.0 at the end...
Your experience as a grower is why we watch your channel Kaylee… and your opinions (not science which you make perfectly clear on your channel for viewers) is what keeps people like me who have a hobby and love of plants watching. ❤ And you really show good examples of healthy Thai constellation plants 🥰
Love your hair! 😅 thanks for there video! I always love learning. I hope nobody takes the video as an attack, either direction. We can’t learn if people aren’t observing and processing.
Pretty in Green has done done 3 videos on Thai Constellation 1.0 and 2.0 as well. Maybe he wasn't even talking about you
That guy is a moron
hmm good point im gonna go watch those
You are correct. This is one thing I like about Tech Plant. He doesn't specify who's video he is referencing. He could very well have been referring to Pretty In Green's videos. I feel like some TH-cam drama is starting when he doesn't reference a specific TH-camr.
One could have amazing debates if he would be naming people.
@@raynelaroux1547
He has confirmed the video was about me in the response he made on his channel. Though I appreciate what you're saying- the comments he made about what plants I showed and the way I showed them- and what he said about my comment section directly relate to my video.
I want to see kaylee vs tech plant in a planty diss track battle 😂😂❤ love both of em
My college bestfriend's family owns a farm and they've been importing plants here in the PH for yearrrs, like more than 30 yrs already. They too think that older batches of Thai were different and I believe them lol
It would be better if we had access to an actual 1.0 Thai to compare. Comparing a green monstera makes no sense. He also was comparing a monstera mint cutting, which is neither large form or small - is intermediate form. It's totally irrelevant when talking about the Thai Con.
He has some points about the randomness of different monstera, but he pretty much did nothing in the video except measure random monstera, neither proving nor disproving anything. There are probably even more versions than 1.0 and 2.0 at this point, they are being TC'd by so many different companies. Probably tons of genetic variation by now and probably very different from the Thais of five+ years ago.
Yea, I feel like the Facebook pictures aren’t a great comparison and he needs to get his hands on the “1.0” to really prove anything but I think what he was trying to say was that the older Thai you showed had better ratios because it was grown from mature cuttings and the younger one had poor ratios because it was very young. I don’t think the gargantuan stems he showed were a fair comparison to the “1.0” you showed though. 🤷🏾♀️ I also think in one of the other videos he said something about the 1.0 vs 2.0 theory being dependent on 1 lab only using 1 mother plant. Is that how it works?Did all Thais pre-2019 come from the same exact mother plant from the same lab? He also pointed out that a lot of the issues with the rotting could be coming from people babying their recently deflasked Thais to death since plants are more fragile at that stage. Certainly a thought provoking discussion. I’m enjoying the back and forth amongst creators. I got a very small highly variegated TC last summer and have had no rotting issues so far and the petiole ratios seem good. 🤷🏾♀️
You are correct that he doesn’t have Thai 1.0. He may not even have 2.0.. furthermore, unless he is a biologist or horticulturalist, I think it’s misleading (by him) to even call his experiments truly scientific. I also never understand why he trills other YT’ers who have fewer subscribers than he has. Why is he so damned competitive?
damn, the subtle jab at Kaylee. I think I would call their channels to be of similar size, there are not many plant youtubers (anymore) in the similar range and 10% difference should be enough to group them together.
I’ve been watching both sides of these and honestly the back and forth has been very entertaining.
But also neither sides have come up with any evidence other than observations. Unless we can definitely get genetics differentiating the two it doesn’t matter. A Thai is a Thai and I’m beyond grateful to have mine.
I really don’t see why these videos exist or why it’s an issue as the majority of us are lucky if we can even have a Thai. Videos likes these are where the plant community starts to feel like it’s gate keeping because if we never had an insanely expensive Thai 1.0 which apparently isn’t available anymore completely segregates the opinions of everyone else who didn’t have fun’s or access to this “better Thai”
Ok I finish this video and I had already watched his. His was simply to point out to people who can now get access to the affordable “2.0” Thais that they are JUST as good as the previously expensive and elusive pre covid 1.0 Thai’s if anything g you BOTH seem to be coming from the same stand point that a Thai is a Thai is a Thai. He even said he didn’t have a 1.0 but he did the scientific measurements and comparisons to a normal monstera and large form and albo a d showed that a monstera is a monstera and like you said in your videos people should NOT be going out hunting for a “1.0” because you can get the same good results from the post covid Thais.
Id honestly love to see a collab between you two on this topic to really drive home that these are still THAIS instead of seeing you two bicker through videos back and forth.
There’s nothing myself, as a viewer and part of the plant community, hates more than to see creators I love arguing over things that mean nothing to the general population.
Make a collab video discussing it, hash it out in one video then let’s move on to the great care and informational content we subscribed to please❤
@@hannakierstead289 True that. I'm so done about bickering of ANYTHING right now even Thai's. I'm like this.......who in the heck cares but the ones's bickering........right?? I feel as though since the price of the Thai's have come down in prices now and you see one at Walmart or where ever.......and that has always been on your wishlist.......BUY IT! Who cares if it's 1.0, 2.0.....tissue culture as long as you love it, treat it well and give it tender loving care! Life is TOO short. If it brings a smile on your face everyday..........you my friend have made the right choice and be grateful!
It is hard. I agree. I would rather they get along.
I agree with Kaylee!!!! As soon as she posted the Thai 1.0 and 2.0, I have my old Thai straight from Thailand 5 years ago and they have shorter petioles and leaf is huge! Compared to my fast growing tc Thai.
I have both plants. I accidentally left Thai 1.0 in my garage (unheated) while I was on vacation in January. The temp was 38 high and 17 low. I lost 1/2 a leaf (cream section). My 2.0 lost three leaves when I lost my greenhouse heater at 52 degrees... THERE'S A DIFFERENCE!!
24ish minutes in, where you thought he said "mid cut" I think he was saying "mint". But yeah there's several plot holes and question marks in his video 😅
He did say mint
When I watched it I saw red text appear over the image of the albo/mint stating it was a mid- cutting? Or am I wrong 🙈
@@KayleeEllenOfficialNo you aren’t, if you look at the pot around 24:44, you can see the original chunk around the left side of the base. All three leaves of the plant are grown from the bud of the node, and the original leaf have already faded.
@@northliu1196 exactly and as a mint mid-cut from a potential large form which would size up faster in comparison to a small form! That information is critical to the point being madebso without that info it cannot be used as a comparable example in my 🧅
@@KayleeEllenOfficial its a mint mid cutting lol, I may have slurred my words. I posted a new video to clarify and show the mint plant just cuz im proud of it
Great video but honestly so distracted with how amazing your hair looks like this
I totally get your view of 1.0 vs. 2.0. The new specimens ending up in big box stores are not from the same mother plant as the originals. They are weaker and much more prone to root rot. If he wants to prove his point, he needs to obtain a physical selection of actual 1.0 plants to show in his video. What we are talking about here is new batches of Thai that are now coming from a different mother plant than the originals.
I bought a rescue quality Thai recently and it’s a rockstar. Maybe get your game up. Easy plant to grow.
Yeah, I get your points and can sympathize with making of this video, but accusing someone of lying for no reason (mint monstera cutting) is not a good look. Especially that you've been proven wrong the same day. I've been defending you in the comments for years, but here I'm team Tech Plant Guy (not that you care, I know).
you explained this absolutley perfectly!!! can we get a living wall update soon maybe?
it's dead
@@horace6851 rip what did i miss a video or is it bc i dont have an insta lol
@@officialgothicbarbie she mentioned it a couple of times, but there was never an actual video.
Ehhh I still love you both. 😂 I agree with others, I watched because I enjoy everything you put out, but I really have little interest in Thai Con controversy. I have 2 of the newer ones and they’re beautiful and hardy so I’m happy.
I love them both and now I want a collab to hash this out so we can all move on 😂❤
So glad you addressed this...I don't know why this guy is so adamant there is no distinction between Thai 1.0 and 2.0...even I have seen the difference and I am just a hobby gardener
One of my pet peeves is someone drawing conclusions about things they haven't actually tested so I really feel you in this video
I hate to come on and start my comment with as a scientist but AS A SCIENTIST…. His so called research was extraordinarily poor. He basically was comparing apples to oranges to pears. He wasn’t giving the viewer any kind of complete information about the plants he was showing as evidence. If anything he was just doing a lot of science looking things. Not actual science itself AS A SCIENTIST… you don’t start with your conclusions you start with your hypothesis and you let the evidence tell you whether you are right or wrong… “internet scientist” rubbed me the wrong way!!!
Funny thing 1.0 , 2.0, 3.0 Don't complicate the specimen of the Thai Constellation. FYI Monstera Creme Brulee named by famous collector of monstera variegated in U.S. not from Thailand. Buy specimens from reputable plant collector who named the specimen based on the fact and origins.
From what I have seen of him, he has never proved anything but has a tendency to attack other content creators for not knowing what they are talking about. I watched these vids and the vids by the other creator that responded and called him out. He literally comes off like a child sticking his fingers in his ears.
100% agreed! I had the exact same impression from the videos I have seen of his. A grown-man child trying to act non-emotional when it's clearly emotionally motivated if he's made 4 videos about it 😂
@@ThatGirlShelbyyI never seen video that techplant makes, that is emotionally motivated?
His main point stands--comparing leaf to petiole ratios on plants grown from cuttings off a mature plant to ratios on plants grown from seed or tc is like comparing apples to oranges. It doesn't tell you much. It would be interesting to compare these ratios on plants of a similar maturity.
He did not have the appropriate samples to make a scientific finding or even an educated guess; got to have to right subjects for comparison.
I think his point of bringing up the fenestrations was to point out that Ben's plant was more mature so it would produce better leaves with better ratios regardless of the crap conditions even if it is Thai 1.0. The problem is that you've already mentioned that there was a problem with your method because the plant that you were comparing was more juvenile and you'd show it again when they're more mature. All in all, his video wasn't as scientific as he wanted it to be and you said it was from personal experience.
First off loving your hair!!! And once he got to that large chunck I’m like anything coming out of that is going to be huge!!!!
I do not have a thai, because I don't have room for a tree in my home. That being said, I've been collecting plants for a decade --- I remember them having the reputation for being utterly bombproof. Thai used to be pretty much immune to neglect, and root rot wasn't a thing unless you made a legit effort. And then there's now.
What more proof do you need?
I think it varies on location and your care too. I have a friend with an earlier one and it always looks very sickly compared to ones I got few years after hers, however the one I got arrive here in the middle of an Australian heat wave so of course they absolutely struggled and I lost a few (I had 7 plants as birthday gifts and all but two survived via switching over to hydroponics as a last resort.) Since then we have both gotten another one each and they're doing spectacular because we didn't get them in the summer and those other three plants between us are only just getting off the struggle bus. So yeah, time of year and all of that makes a huge difference in how the plant is going to cope too.
He’s comparing an old plant to a young plant just like he was saying other people do. I’m confused lol
I almost wish you didn't respond he is coming off as a pseudo intellectual rage baiter. He wanted you to respond.
His science isn't very scientific and if he is talking about you, he completely missed the point of what you were saying
I love tech plant. I think he tried to bring some light hearted-ness to the often.... Je ne sais pas of the plant world
The only way to "scientifically" debunk these theories - The test must follow the following conditions:
1. Each specimen of V1 and V2 is confirmed + verified.
2. Each specimen samples must be of the same or similar maturity. ( ie how old the chonk used)
3. Each specimen samples of V1 and V2 must be similar in terms of: flask grown, chonk grown, top-mid-bottom cuttings or aerial propagation (of similar maturity).
4. The testing of both (similar maturity v1 and v2) must be tested in similar conditions and simultaneously.
5. Root system of samples compared must be similar.
6. Growing multiple sample comparison must be replicated numerous times and data collected or averages, mean and extreme figures scientifically analysed (I would prefer critical analysis of data set).
Talking wishy washy memories, data set of timelined fb pictures - is NOT scientific.
Talking about it from experience - without having a huge data of similar samples - is also NOT scientific.
So if its not scientific. (Whether you claim it or not), then those theories are as good as old wives tale.
It could be true. It could not be true. UNLESS PROVEN with scientific data sets that can be analysed. Not some random data sets that doesnt correlate with proving and debunking what is fact to fiction.
SCIENTIFIC means you have COHERENT DATA sets to analyse from. Without that, its NOT scientific.
I could write a thesis about this. But il stop here.
By the way, ive been told by all society that religion is real. My question is: Why did religion not exist before humans ?
GOOD bye internet.
I totally agree with you … it was your opinion I didn’t see anything wrong with your opinion and I even agree with your opinion… he definitely doesn’t have a 1.0
I have a 2.0 but mine is in Leca with a wick and growing lovely … no issues the only issue I’m having is to much variegation even though I bought it with barely any in a 2 inch pot…. As I’ve seen it grow it actually grows very similar too 1.0 after almost a year but I can’t speak for every plant the ratio on mine are great…. It might be the conditions
Back too the video this guy is full of shit …
First off, stunning hair lol. It’s a shame that something mentioned as anecdotal was taken that way. I think it’s great that he put that effort into trying to not make 1.0 v 2.0 a thing (same as you) but it fell short for me. Adding to the anecdotal evidence here, until you mentioned the 1.0v2.0 I had always wondered why the Thai I got pre COVID was always a beast and the one I got in 2022 was pretty whimpy. Different growers and possible mothers and all that, but it rang true for me 🤷🏻♂️
Confirmation bias proved, “scientifically.”
I have many 2.0 and 1.0. There is absolutely a difference. For me, the 2.0 grows a bit differently but is definitely less hardy, and that goes for their eventual cuttings as well. My 1.0s and their cuttings are hardier and even feel even feel more sturdy or stronger, idk. But there’s a clear difference that’s easy to pick up on once you’ve worked with both for so long. I understand this is anecdotal, but there you go. That’s my experience 🤷♂️
He's pretty insufferable I tried watching his content and I can't
It was interesting to see this because i agree that his comparisons to me weren't true. The Deliciosa's got me because it really looked like there was a small form in there purely based on the growth pattern. I could be wrong but 🤷🏾♀️. All the way around though i love to see people experiment and their opinions of the plants they grow in their own conditions, it leads to good conversations but i don't think he proved anything there.
Have you seen the comments on his video… there’s quite a few stating there is a difference 😂 i believe he’s just busted his own myth busting 🙈
Aaaaaaaaand mic drop 👏🏻 😂 what on earth did he think he was proving? That mature plants give mature leaves? Shocking.
I'd like to first start off by saying I absolutely love your videos. They're so informational and they've helped me out so much throughout my growing process with my plants. My question is though, how do I get your nutrients? I live in the US and I would totally love to try your nutrient because your plants look absolutely amazing and I want mine to thrive like yours. Thank you in advance!
Next youtuber boxing match?
Also, there’s a third variety of Monstera sold at big box stores as MD, that might be perceived as small firm, but a research paper actually identified as its own variety and not borsegiana though often confused with it, which has a super long petiole. I’m blanking on the ID, and potentially, his leggy green MD could actually be this third variety being sold as a Deliciosa.
I honestly believe I have said monstera, it is so different to my 1st one. Way more petiole and much smaller leaves.
Send him a cutting of your Thai 1.0 pleaaaaasse!!! Cuz I love this ongoing discussion, I don’t want it to end. He couldn’t compare the two because he doesn’t have one….
No eff him
I purchased some and I'm trading for others. I should have 4 to 5 pre 2019s to experiment with soon! It should be fun diving deeper!
Funny enough, I was just showing your 1.0 vs 2.0 video 2 day back to my friend. Why? Cuz both big Thais we got from a shop got massive root rot after putting in a airy mix. Right? Airy... and all rotten now. Rerooting in perlite and praying haha
If it fails, rescue it with full hydro. I've done that as a last resort and it saved my plants. I only potted them up once I was happy the roots filled the entire jars they were in and they're doing great. Mine arrived in the heat of the Australian summer so they weren't having none of my help to ajust to thier environment (and i lost quite a few before going hydroponic to save the last 2. It was a decent rescue but also highlighted the fact the ones I had gotten didn't have great roots either when shipped out and needed more time to grow them properly which is a common thing with some vining plants.)
I have T1 TC a cutting from an old.local.mother plant...mine is over 4 years old... under my conditions....the petioles have regulated at 24" to 25" with leaves between 18.5" and 19.5" with consecutive leaves getting bigger....the petiole.size has regulated...so not a leggy plant🙏
I totally agree with you
His science isn't very scientific and if he is talking about you, he completely missed the point of what you were saying
Love your hair!!! You look amazing!!! I agree with you 100%
I just bought a Thaicon and a Deliciosa from a Thailand TC lab (I bought it from a live seller in the lab). Allegedly, it was unrelease tc specimens from 2019 since it doesn't have enough fenestration; specifically holes in the mid ribs. They just kept them in the lab to grow and neglect it since according to them it doesnt fit the standard look of the monstera that time.
I can tell there's a significant difference from that specimens to the monstera in the current market. The leaves looks thicker, rounder and bigger. The leaf and stem ratio is also looks smaller, it looks more compact.
I would definitely say that newer batches of monstera now looks different 5 to 6 years ago.
As an actual scientist (in my younger years) I always smile when people say anything about being "scientific".
And another thing, never mind my wife I want to know your hair routine.
yup, PhD with 15 years in the lab... I am having quite a lot of fun in this comment section.
I guess the easy solve is to do a tissue culture of your v1 version?
I like TechPlant's intent with a lot of what he shows. Sometimes I'd say the execution falls short. Even so, I'm not aware of many channels that try experiments, and that's something I enjoy. He tends to have shorter content with a more peppy feel than most channels which is fun.
I think I agree with all the points Kaylee made. She seems very rational when discussing topics, and that's probably the key thing that brings me to her channel. I like watching a variety of plant personalities, as you get different interests and perspectives. I don't really get excited about rare plants, but getting glimpses of them from a pro is neat. Her fiery wit is what keeps me coming back.
As for the Thai drama, whether involvement has been intentional or not, it's probably good exposure for the channels involved, so long as they stay respectful and provide something relevant with each video. A little back-and-forth can be fun. Maybe we'll even get some answers about Thai's if this goes long enough. I enjoy the pursuit of truth, so I'm all for it.
Cheers! 💚🧀
Also, this lighting set up on you is phenomenal!! You’re glowing and look so beautiful!!
I have to agree I got lucky and got an older one and I have neglected the crud out of it and it's just chillen lol and I've seen people buy the newer ones locally and complain about root rot so I dunno. I think the mother plant on the older ones was a beast lol
I think he is saying that the older gen are just older plants and that's why they have the ratio they do. As in the newer tissue culture plants are different in ratio because they are less mature plants. Would love to see a comparison with a real 1.0 Thai! Maybe you could do an experiment
Stop trying to up sale Thais lol😂
I know this, i have 3 big monsteras in my garden for years. After i show your videos, you made me want to buy my first Thai and after that an albo. Enjoying everytime seeing your contents...the guy made me having headache and confused! You have it...keep up the good work.
That was a very weird video... like I'm not sure he knew what he was trying to show.
Best guess is, he wanted to show that there are more factors to take into consideration when comparing "old" and "new" batches - which is correct. It's just not conclusive for anything - just because there goes more into cars than speed, doesn't mean we cannot compare cars at all. He doesn't even suggest any points that could be compared instead.
But honestly, he was doing a Dunning-Kruger effect. You point out several obvious factors that go into how a Monstera grows that he isn't aware of, yet compares them as if "nobody knows why they are different".
Like, no dude, YOU don't know the difference between a head-cutting, mid-cutting, a small Monstera vs. one growing out of a trunk as thicker than an arm...
Unfortunatly the only ones REALLY being able to resolve this conflict, are the people making the Thais, as only they know what or if they did anything different before and after. And for the rest of us, as there is no official statement, we just gonna pick whatever Thai we can get and make the best out of it.
I totally support Tech Plant. He is always willing to experiment. Anyway, I feel that content creators should not target each other channels.
Not sure what the point of your comment was tbh. Are you saying you agree with what he said after listening to him, or that you blindly support him no matter what he says? I like some creators, but I don't blindly agree with them on everything. His experiment wasn't very scientific here. In this instance he didn't do a great job. That doesn't make him a bad person. He was just mistaken. It's fine to acknowledge he made a mistake but also still support his channel.
Comparing small form with large form, prop box conditions vs shop conditions, huge chonks vs younger/more immature specimens, not actually showing 1.0 vs 2.0 (as far as I can tell) and so on is so irritating to me. Techplants' video didn't seem as well thought out as they may have hoped and almost feels as though they had many ideas regarding this topic - then got a little carried away. There are far too many inconsistencies with his video, especially as it claimed to be scientific so many times.
That said, I enjoy both yours and Techplants' videos and I appreciated this back-and-forth!
👏🏻 can 👏🏻 we 👏🏻 talk 👏🏻 about 👏🏻 your 👏🏻 hair 👏🏻 ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS ❤❤❤❤
He's so boring, I kept tuning out involuntarily. 😂
I mean both of these youtubers are great, but i think your kind of biased.
So there are now tea pages on plant channels? How lame😒 I thought the purpose of growing plants was to de-stress, encourage wellness and learn to nurture a living thing. Now we got TH-cam "plant influencers" doing shady videos about other TH-cam"plant influencers" for engagement and views. Throw whole scene away🚮
I hate how social media influencers and TH-camrs have spread their superficiality into areas that started out as healthy activities and communities. I see it in the natural hair community and now in the plant community.
What activity will influencers latch on to next to suck dry?
Why does every community that you all infiltrate turn into a snarky mess?
First of all... amazing haircut love the waves.
On the old videos you look like a baby 😍
And on the subject matter Im excited that there is beef in the plant community 😂😂😂.
I agree with you absolutely hideos to debunk something when you haven't even seen one of the specimens in person 😂.
Why don't you make a project proving your point taking a cuttings from your old mothers and some from the new, and you can even test the feed on them!
Concider that idea plz😅
I'd be okay with Techplants videos if he presented them as his own opinion/observation. The problem is he treats his opinions like they are the objective scientific fact and that anyone who disagrees is stupid or trying to scam their customers.
The reality is, he has no more evidence than anyone else, and arguably has even less than people like you who at least own both plants and handled hundreds through your store. I am a PhD student in science and it really bothers me how he keeps asserting he did something scientific just because he did a few random measurements of one of the two types of plants involved and then looked at a picture of another. Doing a proper scientific study might be unrealistic, but that doesn't mean you can squint at a some old Facebook photos and claim you have indisputable scientific evidence. He made a number of false claims from a scientific perspective about tissue culture as well... honestly I find his entire attitude really damaging from a scientific perspective. One of the most important parts about science is being precise about what you can and cannot know from your data, and he doesn't grasp this in any way. I think its also damaging from a community perspective how he paints other creators as dumb/scammers and himself as a rational authority when really, everyone is just making informed guesses based on what they've seen personally. Its such a nasty attitude
Definitely, that guy doesn't have any clue of what he's he talking about. You can't make a comparison with only pictures. that's ridiculous. I've had the 1.0 and the 2.0, and they're totally different.
He has a strong cognitive bias to begin with and equates his anecdotal evidence to scientific evidence. His presentation style screams ADHD unhinged. He’s gone down a rabbit hole without considering the periphery of the topic at hand. Indeed, getting proper 1.0 and 2.0 and doing a clinical trial, double blinded with control group, done by a third party in a clinical setting, is the only way for him to properly prove or disprove his idea. Numerous times he shows his ignorance as to how plants work. The thick Monstera cutting is an example. He doesn’t understand how dormant buds respond the hormone auxin, along with the enormous amount of stored carbohydrate in that stem. He’s a classic example of someone having a little bit of knowledge and thinking they know everything
The only thing debunked here was his video. 😅
OK let say Kaylee you made up names and created drama just for the sake of content (which I believe is not), isn't he doing what he accused you of doing? Making entire video to react of things you said Instead of letting it go or just adress it in passing in one of his other video. Entire videos to debunk something that "isn't true" or scientific base for content purposes as in the end all that science based video was based on science either 😅. After watching this I honestly think your opinion based on hundreds and hundreds of Thai coming through your shop over the years is more valid than his poor comparison of old, sick looking, selected by himself old Thais to compare it to green plant bought in a shop could be anything really (different form or even type) compare to 1 meter trunk cutting to your small node cutting.. 😅
I don't want to be mean but I didn't see science in either video the only difference is kaylee never claimed science to begin with 🤷🏼♂️
Mr Tech I guess you will have to make a 5th videos about Thai, for someone who calls other content creator out about making things up for content sake and or marketing purposes you surely do have a lot of content on the same matter.. Just saying 😅
People, thai 1 is older than thai 2. For an accurate comparison, you'd have to tc thai 1 and compare it to tc'd thai 2. This would be done in large numbers with tc produced from the same conditions.
You can't do that. All that these videos are squawking about is that older tc has bigger leaves. Duh.
Thai 1 has become this mythical unicorn that people are now searching for and that's silly. They're just getting cuttings from old established plants.
Regardless of who is right, why was he being so backhanded? Constantly making comments about not listening to what you hear on the internet. While he’s doing the same thing and marketing it “science.”
Hey, I love you both. I think you guys both have a ton to offer this hobby/lifestyle/market whatever it does for you.. however the internet is gonna inter net people are gonna people human gonna human… you gotta know when you put something out to the world is gonna get taken used and abused because people. Just sayin I think he is trying to do damage control and that’s it. Did he do a great job. No. So send him some cuttings, work together and get answers. Great content for us. Great money for you guys win win. Love you both again ;)
I've been growing Thais since 2015. There are no differences. May just be a UK thing.
Love watching your videos Kaylee, I always get good energy from you. Hope you keep doing what you love! Love hearing your thoughts and opinions always!
I don't think he's presenting the case he thinks he is. It's just not a scientific approach. There are two many variables he can't account for whereas yours was more informal (you clearly said, not scientific, just a perception) and about one aspect.
KayleeEllen you’re so tactful I love how you presented this ❤ just goes to show don’t attack without proper evidence, especially if you’re trying to be “scientific “ sounds like his audience give him a hard time as well, there’s so many things he says that don’t make sense, where’s the science
I feel like he needs to actually measure and compare an old Thai con to a new one though 😅 You can’t just “debunk” it by showing crappy pictures of old Thais lmao.