Beached Benz...AGAIN? (GL450 No-Crank)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2023
- Oh my god... it's back AGAIN!!
This 2012 Mercedes GL450 is a beached whale once again in the owner's driveway. 93k miles.
And once again there are a LOT of COMMUNICATION CODES stored!
Let's not jump to conclusions, but follow the tried and true SCIENTIFIC METHOD to figure out the problem and give the customer a 100% GUARANTEED DIAGNOSIS.
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Enjoy!
Ivan - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Mercedes no crank, sounds familiar 😂 Love your videos Ivan, great job. 👍From 🇪🇺
Wow even the master watches mercedes no crank videos.
yours always great too!
Danke Danny 👏
👍
@@sahuvikramindia... we all like great cool aid: detective work done by sharp minds.
Spaciba!
I can't believe that this case wasn't a CAN fault like the last time! 😅
Second crank blocked is just a protection to avoid damaging the starter. So I'd consider it normal.
My vw does the same thing. So you can’t crank it after it’s already running. It’s a good thing
I'm loving how regular you are uploading videos Ivan, and I learn something new from nearly every video. Thanks from the 🇬🇧
There's something satisfyingly fundamental when the diagnosis method progresses to hitting it.
scannerdanner has a case study on a 2011 hyundai sonata where the s post wire was disconnected from broken connector and the end result was the other modules were looking for the engine to run after the start sequence and when it didn't see it, it flagged these other CAN codes.
I remember when engine crank had 4 components to troubleshoot, ign key, battery, starter solenoid and the starter.. that seems like a better system.. Anti Theft was called a shotgun!
powers and grounds..simple as that, except nowadays there's lots to get in the way of powers and grounds.
Anti theft now days is 3 pedals....
My ‘94 F150 has a modern anti-theft : a left pedal must be depressed in order to unlock the transmission so that a long lever on the floor can run through each gear.
It’s computer controlled (by computer I mean my head).
The communications codes will have come from the starter effectively shorting out the battery , I had one that would crank but would not start , but if you push started it it was fine , just a starter it was blanking the crank position sensor
On cars with a starter relay and a no crank condition, I like to go directly to the starter relay and jumper that to see if the starter works. If the starter works then check to see if the relay is being energized. Same with a fuel pump relay. See if it's drawing current. Then you know which part of the circuit has a problem.
Divide and conquer works for me!
The good news was that the starter was under the engine versus the intake plenum.
Good going! Sometimes the overwhelming complexity of a thing keeps us from checking the simple components!
Came here to say this. It's often exactly what you think it is with cars like this. That said the GL is known to be one of Mercedes least reliable US products of the past 20 years.
I work on some other machines, and your video is giving me some new ideas on how I can work better every time. Thanks, Ivan!
You know how they do things that always have to be extra with those systems. As always you stuck to the basics to once again come up with a flawless diagnosis! Great job Ivan!
Putting myself through an advanced DIY automotive program. You videos are really excellent and have definitely helped me a lot.
Great to hear!
new video from you feels like christmas morning :) .. thank you so much, keep up the excellent work.
Old School Technics on Digital Age Nightmares. Gotta love the ol' bang the starter with a hammer. My daddy taught me that in the 70's.
Problem is you have to take half the car apart to get to it.
Instead of running off for a starter, I pull the starter, strip it, clean it, lubricate it, bang it back in & 8 times out of 10 your starter works again. They get fouled with crud, the armatures get fouled, stuff seizes up from lack of grease, blah blah - fixable. Same goes for window motors, wiper motors etc etc - despite people saying "You can't fix them, get a new one. Often its a simple fix.
Glad you made it back from your ride in one piece..no loose gravel !
Thank you PHAD for another great diagnostic video.
Always a pleasure to watch
Unfortunately, I own GL450. After buying it used from a lot...after stopping at
a QuikTrip for gas on the way home, it never cranked again. It's been in the shop for almost 2 years. The foreign car repair shop guys work on BMWs, Volvos, Minis, etc...but can't diagnose the issues with this GL450. I'm not a rich guy. I actually need the car for my family. The mechanics at the import shop said they feel bad for even charging me any money and are only billing me for parts. At my wits end and don't know what to.
But, thanks for the video. Gives me something to suggest to the mechanics.
I'm glad you're having a nice vacation. But even glad-er that you're still uploading diagnostic videos. :)
My short vacation is long over haha
Super diagnosis, as usual.
Nice precise diagnosis. Was looking forward to a tear down of the faulty started.
ivan you are a genius,,got that on a split of a second literally, well done
Nice to see you getting an easy one this time around!
Ivan taking his frustrations out on the starter.
Thanks Ivan!
I was going to guess the ignition switch as the one on my 2012 GL350 failed at 36k miles. I notice that he also has multiple Airmatic (i.e. air suspension) faults which will be expensive to fix too.
Despite it being a mechanical nightmare, we loved ours so much that when we moved to Finland, I brought it with us (it was a beast in the snow.) It's still there today with a new owner now that we're back in the USA.
After having a car with all those extras did you change brands when you came back to the US or get another Mercedes? Just wondered if you are a Mercedes enthusiast or that car really filled a niche for you?
I loved my GL320 too. My dads GL450 was an absolute beast as well. The 166 chassis GLs and MLs dont seem to be as well built as these port injection ones
these MB "Electronic Ignition Switch" are always prime suspects for trouble -- They are sensitive to dust and vibrations.... 🫤
@@glasser2819 good to know. Like your avatar. Is that your own bunny?
@@dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 we went to the UK for 2 years after Finland and I bought a Range Rover which was also a bit problematic (but nowhere near as bad as the Benz) and I loved it too. When I got back to the US a couple months ago I bought a RAM 1500 Crew Cab with a Hemi. Because America.
Was waiting for your video 📹 😍..
I can only speak from recent experience on my F-150 where I knew I was dealing with an old life battery. (AGM). The auto start-stop feature did not work for several months and finally after a long trip that should have charged the battery my radio access on accessory became limited. Finaly on a long drive things started going squirrelly with the gear selection numbers not changing and the transmission not shifting properly. I limped through another 100 mile round trip until I could get a new battery installed and now seems like a different vehicle.
Thanks IVAN. 🙂
Nice to know that the old Ford, Chev, Chrysler diag technique works on the upscale import.
Wiring diagram certainly helped. A big hammer may have loosened the starter enough to make it turn one more time.
Good one Ivan.
Hey missed your car vids. Hope you had fun zipping around.
Starter issues wonder how much a starter for that it yikes, was watching a video the other day on YT heard a familiar sound....the BMW dings...got a chuckle out of that.
A very very long time ago you could reach down to the starter with a prybar or large screwdriver and put it across the terminals from the solenoid and if the starter was good it would crank. You could then easily replace the solenoid. If it didn't crank you just replaced the whole thing.
So who's idea was it to make them more complicated? 😮
Loving the videos while I'm down with kidney stones!
I'm a technician my self .. Nice work man 👍
Nice video, thanks for sharing!
By the way , do you recommend any place to start here in the us i used to be a technician back home and now im in the us but i need a place that i can start working on cars again in ! Im in new york city
Communication codes can come up with low battery
Interesting! So many CAN codes and all you have is a mechanical problem in the starter :-) Nice quick diag, Ivan!
German cars set comm codes when battery gets low
@@mikesabin8568 Yep. Just making a joke 🙂
She's another clinger! LOL well now I know there's some sort of strategy in the crank circuit on these... Funny looking CAN wave form. Wonder if it was from a capacitor bleed off? Thanks for sharing!
Might be interesting to look at the CAN signal with a working starter and see if the ringing is still there.
The best, most effective tools a modern shade tree mechanic can have, besides a headlamp and your brain, is a Yoga mat for sliding under cars w/o getting back pain from the rocks, or getting so dirty that your wife makes you change clothes in the garage before you're allowed back into her clean house. If you put your tools on the mat when the job is done, you can slide out easily and then just pull the mat out and the tools will come out with it.
As to your diagnosis, which was an interesting and illuminating process, next time consider applying a spray of penetrating oil into the accessible moving parts of the solenoid and starter, waiting a few minutes for the oil to soak in, and then vibrating the starter/solenoid with a ball peen hammer, or an air hammer, or using a battery-powered impact wrench on one of the nuts or bolts to shake things up, any of which methods might break loose the rust or crud that is preventing that unit from starting the car, and might even persuade the solenoid to release and engage the starter. Applying heat is also a helpful option in such cases. The salt put on the icy roads in your area can wreak havoc on any moving parts or electrical connections exposed to its corrosive effects.
Thanks for continuing to educate us with your videos.
Great job narrowing down the problem Ivan! I was starting to wonder if the engine was seized.
Yes CAN network codes probably due to low voltage in system from repeated cranking attempts, Mercedes will timeout after 10 cranking attempts for most models due to system conserving battery.
" No sense beating a dead Mercedes to death here", proceeds to beat it some more just to make sure it dies.
Lol the best comment i'v read so far, Dude you should be on stage! 🙂👍
Great job as always Ivan. Sometimes I wish you and Eric O. lived closer to me. On a side note, what kind of CAN bus do you think Mercedes uses? Pepsi, Coke, or something a little more fancy like Shasta 😂.
Greyhound bus!
There are two Mercedes on my block and are always being worked on by the dealer.
As complex as they make cars these days starter motor solenoids and commutator brushes still fail like they did 50 years ago. The old strike it with something hard and solid trick still works sometimes but only temporarily. Good call let the owner replace it looks like a difficult location .
This was a GREAT Video.....The Owner should be very glad that you are as Smart as Ur.....Laying on the gravel is no fun!!!!
Is the Thinktool capable of programming most engine computers and bcm's? I have the Thinkdiag2 and it's good for what it is but really want to upgrade, I finally purchased a Hantek T0 1112D 2 channel scope. I love the vintage bike I use to have an old 79 Shadow that was a blast.
The dad always told me to never buy a Mercedes. I would argue that you have all of these Mercedes running around with 250,000K, and 500,000K and 750,000K badges on the grill (I don't think those are available anymore). He would point out that the badges were very bright and shiny, that might be why I noticed them, because there really weren't that many.
I paused at 8:00. Ivan, that's perfectly normal for Mercedies to prevent cranking after the first crank attempt. This keeps the user from grinding the starter if the engine had already been started.
So just a bad starter? Doesn't get much easier to diagnose something like that.
Start sized drawing battery down throwing lots of codes.
Working on the No can do bus!
As soon as I saw 450 I knew it was a dead starter, lol - we get lots of m273 engines killing starters, and steering locks if they're in a sedan 😅 the V6 doesn't seem to be as bad, but I've replaced a couple.
i guessed was the price of the starter would be high i was surprised rock had some under 200 plus shipping
How about the ignition switch module? There is a electronic connector on the board sometimes broken, manufacturing quality issue.
What is that jacket you wear? Seems great for car work! I want one!
"hopefully this thing doesn't run me over....haha". Nervous laughter - that's the bonus content for today! Thanks Ivan.
Ivan, sorry for the non related question, you have a video several months ago, if I remember you were taking notes about internal trans switches and based on the positions you were able to find the problem. I believe the switches when grouped together tell which gear it was in, I think Service Info did not give a chart but your diligence figured out the problem, I am looking for that video please. Any help for the link?
Sorry Ivan, I watched it several months ago but your video was 7 years ago, probably totally forgot about it but here it is. th-cam.com/video/dpCNgEH4eLA/w-d-xo.html
endless money pit
It could have been just a loose main wire at the solenoid, or even at the battery. That's the problem with making the starter inaccessible... You might as well throw on a new one by the time you tear into it for diagnosis... The fact that it was getting stuck though; that solenoid is cooked anyway.
I once had a car where the starter wouldn't go
then I do that I short-circuited it
so that it would move a little at the beginning
also only that one again
Ivan what model ThinkTool Pro do you use in the majority of your videos?
See description of every video 😄
I diagnosed it in 2 minutes in your video ... heh heh ... But, you have the brains to confirm it too.
But, you would think with all that fancy money and electronics, it would wipe your nose, your butt, and tell you that your starter is a piece of ... really? Hey ... I'll bet that starter isn't bad either. If you opened it up, probably just a couple worn starter bits. That car doesn't look very old.
When you said there was ringing on the bus, i thought termination resistors had a fault.
Wrong wrong and wrong lol.
A mad engine computer... nope!.
Or a mad computer that thinks the car has been broken in to.
The starter motor failed for a change :-D it's usually a relay or crusty fuse box terminals/wire.
That motor looks like a pain to change, thankfully you will not have to do it :-D.
Sure, it was not something complicated, but still its back again to you for repair. Do not want that thing. Thanks.
Circuit 15 is ignition+, terminal 50 is starter trigger.
One critique: I didn't see you verify the starter was getting good battery power. The lack of consistent clicking is suspect, but still left over a bad high current connection.
When 🐋 stops throwing ashore...🤣
Thank you Ivan!
I had one it was the tcu in the gearbox and it was a no start
check the battery compartment for water, i had a same model that had water intrusion and all of the fuses where soaked in water, battery was swiming in water
Under the passenger seat?
How did u fix the problem I’m having the same problem
Ivan, why do I get the impression that one of your favorite songs is NOT, "Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz....?" 🎶 Might be dating myself on that one but seems appropriate here. I could be wrong (probably am), but seems like a lot to diagnose a bad starter. Mercedes thing? Anyway, typical solid diagnosis. 👍
Ivan could you post your borscht recipe again, thanks
What if.....the heavy red wire from the battery to the starter had green crusties? At the starter end. Or even dropped off!
That would give the same symptoms, would it not?
I know Ivan is the king of all kings and the BEST. I would have done a voltage drop test at the starter from the pos batt terminal to be 100% sure it was a starter.
Would I be wasting my time?
The 10 amps was for the starter command wire. So the ground to the block can hold 10amps at least. But can it hold full starter current.
Could any of these cause a voltage drop at the modules causing a no Comms fault?
You always hope there would be some computer data available to help your diagnostic approach with the no start/no crank issue, but that does not always happen. Its back to the basics.
Computer data was actually very useful! It showed command was there, so all I had to do was check the output 😉
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I usually look for DTC's initially before going into live data and PIDs for further diagnostic aids. I have learned a lot from you. Thank you
This is crazy getting many codes because of starter. I have 2015 mercedes-benz gl450. It doesn't start with first click but it start up on second time. I took it to the mechanic and he said the starter is bad. I couldn't believe him because I get more than 11 codes all about no communication between components. So I took it to the dealer today and they said same thing. The problem is the starter. 2k for starter and labor at the dealer which is stupid. I will buy one tomorrow for $180 and I will do it myself. To see if that will fix the issue.
Doesnt this car have the Stop-Start feature where the engine shuts down when you stop at a Red stoplight and the engine restarts when you press the gas upon a green light.
Man ivan be careful wen hitting a starter to start it I did the same for a friend when we got off work his truck wasn't starting and as soon as it started his truck jolted backwards good thing he was in the truck to brake but it broke one of my ribs and was scary to say the least
Uhhh sounds like it was in gear 🤣
That's what I thought but it was in park idk I've never had that happen before
Ivan hey,, :)) you can still work on that Mitsubishi if you really want too :))
Bring it over Timofey I'll restore it to stock beautiful shape 😁👌
But you fix that gas tank first 🤣
friggin computers and vehicles working together....LOL...what could possibly go wrong
Lol. Said is this thing locked up…. Yea could very well be,. Worth an oil check and breaker bar manual turn if theres a place for that.. probly not on a merc..
You didn't verify the power/ground to the starter (load carrying capability)...at least not on video. This could have bit you in the butt, but I can understand that it may have been pretty difficult to do given the circumstances.
I could be wrong but I don't think it was necessary given the solenoid wasn't clicking every time as it should. The test light check through the solenoid windings and the current flow test both showed that the coil in the solenoid had enough juice flowing through it. I am open to criticism on that though as I am here to learn!
The air suspension has a leak. I’m sure he will be calling you soon for that repair.
I wonder if the owner got a Mercedes starter or aftermarket? OEM is better although more expensive. Also is more dependable too. Aftermarket can be sketchy especially with electrical parts.
OEM didn't even make it to 100k miles or 10 years...
OEM is made by the lowest bidder.
Starter motor shorted and caused the battery voltage to drop too low and all the CAN modules got confused.
Perhaps
First thing I would have done in that situation is always check for power at the solenoid under crank you got power there you know you got a bad starter fuck everything else
Could most of those codes been set because electrically the starter was going nuts ??
Yes. If it pulled the battery voltage way down. But usually you'd get low voltage codes, too.
that many modules screaming no-comm. and no crank/start, I'd be thinking battery terminal/other connections/grounds bad, battery weak, dead starter drawing huge current sucking voltage down and making them go offline.
You need an old school starter switch so you can bang on it with one hand and hit the switch with the other 😆
I was thinking one that goes on banana leads would be very handy. I might make up one for myself.
@@NZdiagnostics or... The uactivate from aeswave.... That's what I have. that till seems to be sold out all the time though
@@madmike214 I believe Ivan has the old version of the Uactivate but says it just sits on the shelf collecting dust. He likes using the method he showed here instead.
@@Mr2004MCSS I have the old version as well...i really only use it for doing stuff like this and in most cases I use it to crank the engine over from outside for things like relative compression tests lol. The tool is pretty cool and mine doesn't really get used allot...Comes in handy though
@@madmike214 Yes! I want one of those too, but as you say, difficult to get in stock , especially when you are trying to align being in stock with a good chance of spousal approval.
So much RED in that health report. I was about to pack it all up and go twist balloon animals in the park. Glad it was something traditional this time. Now the guy can buy a NAPA reman and replace it 3x in the next 18 months 😥.
I love the videos and was inspired to fix my 99 mercedes e320 that wont crank and doesn't talk via the obd2. I got a junkyard computer now i can read codes but still doesn't crank. I tested the starter through the relay socket and it cranks but doesn't start. Does this car have an immobilizer through the ecu? Or could the electronic ignition switch be the problem? Any help would be appreciated.
There is an immobilizer on that car. If it's not getting signal you should get start error on dash
So is the immobilizer part of the ecu or is it part of the electronic ignition switch /module. Thanks for the information.
Key turns and steering wheel is unlocked transmission can shift out of park no message on the dashboard
Step 1 scan all modules for codes.
@edlum1861 benz uses Das it reads the key but if the key wasn't working you would see start error on dash
I’m not getting power to relay
Always, always start at the termination point of the problem and work backwards. It's faster.
That's an interesting strategy. Depends if the "termination point" is accessible!
hopefully he cleans the ground wire for the starter.
Why would it throw all those codes just for a starter yes replacement fixed it but feel like this has some electrical gremlins just a thought time will tell nice work 👍
It's a modern Mercedes...will ALWAYS have electrical gremlins! As long as it starts and runs it's OK haha
Several years of university studying electrical/electronics, several years of automotive mechanics - tool of choice to diagnose/fix an electrical issue: pry-bar 🤣🤣🤣.
👍