Please make a collab with Blue on your channel! You could talk about historical inspirations in LotR or disect it's philosophy. Once he's back from his trip of course.
Personally, I find Brutalism-style buildings to be nice and I'd love something that turns things around and detaches these kinds of aesthetics from "dystopia" and "utopia". Give me my concrete cube buildings and have the society be a free democracy where people are generally happy and have rights.
@@YeahAlright1983 Always make sure that you have your sh°tposting indented within the document and the source is put into MLA format in the bibliography at the end of the paper
To quote my older brother: "The underlying theme of Dystopias have changed from 'Don't let this happen' to 'Fix this!'. So, what does that say about our world?"
This is caused by the fact that our society is already miserable, and our day to day lives are crushing, that s why many dystopias "force" their characters to do something. It s like saying "You re life is bad, but not as bad as actually forcing you to do something" witch only helps people come to terms with the word they live in, instead of encouraging them to fix it.
You know, I've been thinking. Why haven't I seen a story where the protagonist is at the upper echelons of the dystopia and are there while the government starts to collapse due to issues. This protagonist would have much more freedom in how they act in comparison to the every man. There are so many ways you could go with this. Is the protagonist responsible for this mess or the reason it falls apart? Are they trying to keep the system together but ultimately powerless in comparison to the winds of change that the dystopia itself was unable to stop? Is the protagonist trying to capitalize on the situation for their own gain?
im currently writing a story with this idea "sorta" my 2 main characters are the upper clansmen of the story and they themselves rebel against their authorities that control the lowerclass. They are part of the problem. Where one of them snaps and leads a rebellion the other stays on the controlling side, therefore we see both sides of this story
In A Brave New World, one of the first dystopian novels, the protagonist is an Alpha, so the top. The world doesn’t topple at the end, but it is disturbed.
Christopher Nuttall's _When the Bough Breaks_ is set during the collapse of a dystopia and the protagonist is the bodyguard of the dystopian emperor. A largely powerless emperor, since he hasn't quite reached his majority and his Grand Senate holds all the power since the emperor's dad died when he was two, a decade and a half ago. Despite this he still has prestige and, ostensibly, he _will_ have power once he reaches his majority. The series as a whole, _The Empire's Corps,_ is about surviving the fall of the dystopia and picking up what pieces they can.
I think what sets Hunger Games a part is how Snow answers the question "why didn't anyone rise up before?" Hope. There was no hope before Katniss. They had never seen a tribute who wanted to live as bad as she did, who wanted to get home as bad as she did, and who showed compassion as she did. That is what made her dangerous in Snow's eyes, she gave hope to others.
I think it is hope, but not really in the way you've worded it here. My impression was that nobody had really "won" before Katniss. Essentially, every winner prior to her was made to play by the capital's rules and become 'complicit' with the Games in exchange for their lives. That's the point of the victory tour and the extended celebrity status of previous victors- it's a message that even those who manage to make it out alive are only allowed to do so at the whims of the capital. Everyone must become a coward or a killer and usually both in order to win the games, and the outcome is always the same; people are horrible and will do anything to survive, so the capital is justified in the way they oppress the people. Katniss, unlike those who came before her, WINS in a way they did not. She almost deprived them of any victor at all and thus, showed there IS a way to get out of the games without playing by the rules set by the capital. Only by bartering that potential for Peeta's life did she secure her actual desired outcome of both of them surviving. She created a lose-lose situation for the capital where before the capital wins no matter which children die and which live. So yes, she provided hope... but not by wanting to live more than the others. She did it by demonstrating that people are both clever and determined enough to beat the capital with the right strategy and way of approaching the problem. (And no small amount of being able to get inside the head of the man in charge.)
The other big factor is that Katniss isn't doing this alone. There's a whole big revolution that she gets sucked into. Without her, they might have won or they might have lost, but it was a real threat to the powers that be before Katniss ever got involved, and if she died, they'd have found some other (probably less effective) symbol to rally everyone around. Katniss played a crucial role in winning, but she could never have won on her own.
District 13, too. We don't know much about what happened, but we know they tried to rebel, and were destroyed. The Capital says it's still smoldering. Is that what the others want to happen to their regions'? They didn't think so.
One if my favorite dystopias is called “The Diary of Pelly D” it’s about a construction worker reading the diary of a girl who either disappeared or died. The story is about the beginning of a dystopia, instead of the end. Pelly starts off as a spoiled rich girl, but she ends up being removed from her home and life and possibly dying. It’s really good, and I highly recommend it.
I really like the short story “Harrison Bergeron” It’s main characters are the parents of the protagonist, Harrison. They basically witness Harrison’s attempt of rebellion on tv. It’s kinda interesting that it was both POV characters to provide insight, and a character trying to actively rebel.
@Greg Elchert oh its a Kurt Vonnegut book. That explains a LOT actually, lol. I've only read Cat's Cradle and part of Slaughterhouse Five but he's a *chaotic* writer. I can definitely see him writing something like that.
Idk the tone of Harrison Bergeron is kinda wonk to a point where it really feels like satire. Like a libertarian's idea of what would happen if your socialists were given an inch of ground regarding government regulation or disadvantage accomodative policy. It feels like a parody of the red scare invasion of the body snatchers type media more than actual dystopian fiction, I guess. If it meant to be taken at face value, it's just feels really over simplistic compared Vonnegut's other works.
"People are turned to dust because they have blue eyes" Hi, I see you're one of the 500 people who bought the book I published when I was 14. I am so sorry.
Quote: § Tisvana Allen For 1 år siden "People are turned to dust because they have blue eyes" Hi, I see you're one of the 500 people who bought the book I published when I was 14. I am so sorry. § Really wish it's just say: § Tisvana Allen For 1 år siden "People are turned to dust because they have blue eyes" Hi, I see you're one of the 500 people who bought the book I published when I was 14. I am so grateful! §
You know what I want to see more of? Dystopian comedies. Sure, it kind of goes against most of the common wisdom for the genre, but hey, you brought up Wall-e. And there is a good reason to do it: dystopias are inherently satirical. They're designed to exaggerate society's faults until they're impossible to ignore, and while that's usually used to highlight society's ugliness, it can be used just as easily to highlight its absurdity. There's the no law that says all dystopias must be dark and hopeless and depressing.
isn't clockwork orange basicly a dystopian comedy? but anyways it would be super interesting if we got to see a dystopia on the perspective on the ruler. basicly we need to see the ussr in the eyes of stalin or the ccp in the eyes of the chairman. i really want to see a dystipian comedy where the protagonist is a high ranking officer in an oppressive regime while the popular has to live in extreme and brutal conditions with many oppressive rules, the protagonist being one of the tyrants is uneffected and we follow their ridiculous antics within the story showing major contrast between how the top %1 live their lives vs the oppressed prols
10:57 Fahrenheit 451 is still quite relevant. It's ultimately about people turning away from educating themselves and choosing intellectual numbness, the book burning & censorship are just symptoms of that.
I have a writer friend of mine who had this idea for this dystopian novel, in which the original dystopian government is overthrown by our plucky heroes within the first 1/10 of the story...only for our heroes to be probably as bad, if not worse, than the previous government. The main character is an egotistical manipulative sociopath, who convinces the reader that he is just another soul being crushed by the evil dictatorship he's toppling. We eventually find out after he takes control that he is actually just as bloody as the previous dictator, sentencing people to death for not sharing the same political beliefs as him. The story ends with another coup, which puts the mc in prison (where he writes the final chapters, trying to convince the audience that he is the one being oppressed and not the monster the audience knows he is) and another brutal dictatorship takes his place. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. My friend thought this up after reading some shit YA dystopia novel I cant remember the ending of, which he felt ended too happily with a bunch of teenagers with zero government experience in charge of their nation. He saw that it would lead to disaster, but the book implies that everything would be fine and nothing bad would happen. That's how he explained it to me though.
The only thing that would make it better in my opinion: the "hero" is not a manipulative sociopath, but an idealist who's persuaded he IS the hero and is doing he right thing, when he in fact imposes his ideals using questionnable methods, thinking that if the goal is a brighter future, then the end justifies the means. Not all dictator want power and money. Some can honestly believe they are their nation's best solution.
owlnemo my friend used Humbert Humbert from Lolita as an example of what he was trying to accomplish with the MC: Guy who does awful, unforgivable shut, but able to convince a more mindless reader that he is a good man. What you suggested, my friend said he thought about it before, and decided against it. My friend is very anti revolutionary. He has ancestors who fought for slavery during g the civil war, and he's one of the few southerners to accept the fact his family fought for slavery. He is not keen on revolutionaries, especially the ones we have today, calling for Trump's downfall (he doesn't like Trump, but doesn't think it's worth throwing out our government over).
Luke Freet oh, I see. It's indeed a clever thing to have the protagonist "convince you" he's a hero while being a horrible person. I was afraid it would be too much of a caricature, but if the inspiration is Humbert Humbert I'm sure it'll be subtle enough and mortifying for the reader to gradually discover that the person they're rooting for is a monster. That can have a lot of impact! Regarding political views, eh, we each have our own, and it makes sense that people are obviously not going to write a book which message is the opposite of what they believe in. I'd be really interested to read what this person's dystopia is like, that said. Since everyone's cultural background influences their views on what dystopia could be, it would obviously be very different from what a 30 something Swiss like me can picture.
Reminds me a bit of President Coin in the Hunger Games, Spoilers . . . . She is revealed to just want to take over the power from Snow, and continue the games ; only this time with the children and grandchildren of the old regime.
You don't deserve your friend's confidence. Why are you giving away his idea for free to absolute nobodies in a youtube comment section; if you value your friend I'd suggest you delete this comment quickly!!
I'd say in the Hunger Games the romantic triangle thing is actually sorted after the dystopia one is done, with Katniss decision on which boy she wants being more about how she is going to recover and rebuild. I also think it was a much better portayal of trauma than, say, Harry Potter, because in the books Katniss is still having nightmares TWENTY YEARS after the end of the Hunger Games. The dystopia might just about be done but she is still mucked up by watching friends and family die.
Something I noticed about the love triangle in the hunger games is that it serves as a reflection of katnis' feelings towards revolution. Most of her choices concerning the love triangle are accompanied by a choice to fight or not against the Capitol, like when she kisses a whipped gale and decides to follow him into revolt, or when she grows tired or war in the third book and grows closer to peeta again. It gives the love triangle thematic purpose, so it doesn't feel out of place within the narrative.
@@matthewparker9276 Yep, and kinda explains why the two are so different, and also characterized so different. Peeta’s a strapping, good looking blond boy from the richer part of 12. He’s used to cushy bread and pining for the love of his life without having approximately 50 times the chance of a normal person to be selected for the presumed insta-death arena. Meanwhile, Gale breaks the rules constantly, hunts; his family has been ravaged by poverty and a mine accident he had no control over. He’s got dark hair and bulging muscles. Sure the two of them both have home-life flaws, (I mean hello there Peeta’s abusive mother) but one of them clearly grew up in a better place than the other, despite them both having to grow up ahead of what they normally should. Their differences in appearance and background highlight that.
Also Gale loses the love triangle because he develops weapons that are simply too far over the boundary than what Katniss can accept, representing her change of heart regarding the idea of a revolution, i.e how far is too far?
The love triangle was hardly a love triangle. It was meant to represent the yearning for a calm peaceful home life against the cold revolution or Peeta (home) vs. Gale (Revolution)
My god, that'd be perfect. TWA constantly proposing the WRONG way to do it, only to be faced by Red/HFM pointing out what's wrong with that. Until TWA has an apparent moment of revelation... before snapping back to insanity as all things should be.
I think what most People overlook in Vendetta is the fact that V has been working on taking down the regime literally since the beginning so what we are shown is the third act of his story, the culmination of his work. and in-universe it is never sure that he will succeed.
"What makes our hero different from everyone else?" An immortal king (eternally young in body but not mind) has developed dementia in his old age, allowing his ministers to basically take over the kingdom while the priesthood go to ever darker lengths to make the king ascend into godhood. The hero, a child selected for a human sacrifice, is able to escape with the help of his fellow prisoners, sees the king sitting on his thrown with his magical sword across his lap, and kills said king by shoving the sword through the king's chest. This prompts the king to ascend, overcoming the dementia, and prompting him to grant the child the powers of a Paladin . . . or maybe a Hexblade Warlock. Falling into the life of a criminal the Paladin becomes a Robin Hood-esq character as the ministers and priests delve ever further into depravity. Eventually, the Paladin is brought into a rebellion by the death of his friend/mentor, and channels the powers granted to him by the new god. So, the reason he's the chosen one is because he helped the old king ascend to godhood, becoming that god's only recognized champion in that world.
@@bladefox-ik5iy You mean the 'Emperor of Mankind' from Warhammer 40K? I never played 40K, and and know nothing about the deeper lore. Just reading the wiki page, it looks like the effects of the immortality are reversed: the EoM's body was decaying while his mind remained powerful, but in my concept the mind was decaying while the body remained youthful. Of course, that entirely depends upon your point of view - if you're a heretic then the Emperor is a psychotic psychic despot before, during, and after his mortal reign. Another difference is that, even though the Emperor is revered as a god, there doesn't appear to be any actual evidence that he exists after his death.
Welcome! Welcome to City 17! You have chosen, or been chosen, to relocate to one of our finest remaining urban centers. I thought so much of City 17 that I elected to establish my administration here, in the Citadel so thoughtfully provided by our benefactors. I've been proud to call City 17 my home. And so, whether you are here to stay, or passing through on your way to parts unknown - welcome to City 17. It's safer here.
When I heard the description of a dystopia I just kept thinking “huh, that sounds like North Korea”. Then I was like... “oh right, North Korea IS a dystopia!”
in my opinion china also sounds like it's in the process of becoming a dystopia, with all of it's censorship. and it happens to not just be a small corner of the world like north korea, too
@@nmraven-gx9gt America is also, arguably, why communist regimes such as in the USSR, Cuba, China, even arguably North Korea etc. ended up taking varyingly unpleasant measures with their directions. They saw all the communists who place nice getting killed, couped, sabotaged, embargoed, etc. and did what they felt they had to do to not be eradicated but the extremely hostile capitalist powers. You either be a Castro or end up an Allende, the former in this example and allegory oftentimes not being half as terrible as capitalist propaganda smears them as (with some exceptions of course). Of course, some persevere without resorting to various levels of so-called "authoritarianism," such as Vietnam or Bolivia, but these often persist unstained in spite of their circumstances than anything else.
A few decent fixes I've found: 1: There were plenty of revolutions in the past. They all fell into the same malaise of corruption and were supplanted by another - the hero isn't the first ajd certainly won't be the last in the vicious cycle of destruction that will only end with THE end. As in nukes. 2: The hero was playing to the government's fiddle all along. Gathering so many like-minded people just made removing the threat easier. 3: The hero was the villain all along and just wants ultimate power. 4: The revolution ultimately achieves nothing beyond a massive body count and sinks into bickering and internal politics, slowly picked apart from the inside by the government they sought to overthrow wgo had twisted events to portray the rebellion as violent psychopaths to be hunted down for everyone's sake. 5: Aliens.
A twist that occurs to me: The oppressive government's claims that an alien force they're at war with justifies all this? They're right. Without the government, the war rapidly goes badly and said aliens proceed to get on with the exterminating. If you've got a trilogy, this would be book 2, with some solution coming in to let book 3 end well. (Or you know, not.)
6: Luck. The Dystopia has some weak point or another that an opportunistic hero manages to hit, causing the entire thing to be weakened to the point where outright civil war might become possible.
@@Sorain1 God, no. Do you have any idea what kind of themes that would push? "Oh no, the conspiracy theorists and racists were right all along, these invading aliens *are* a threat, we should've listened to them!" Blegh, that sounds like a story that only the GOP's book club would enjoy (or well, it would sound like that if they had enough intelligence to read)
One thing that I think that the Hunger Games movies gloss over compared to the books is just how broken Katniss and Peeta were at the end of it all. They were completely mentally destroyed. The dystopia and the fight against it still completely wrecked their minds. Yes, they have begun to heal, but even on the last page Katniss opines about how the nightmares will never really go away and it will affect her and how she raises her children forever.
The biggest flaw with many recent dystopian (especially YA) novels is that they don’t necessarily present a dystopia world. What makes 1984 and Black Mirror so terrifying is that they reveal the inhuman sides of not only the government, but also society that makes people helpless to fight back. Reading the section where Winston was totrtured into a living shell by the Party and the protagonists being trap by the technology that influences the people invoke the fear and helplessness. They are cautionary tale that warn a society might be heading this path or has already happen. Oceania tells a story under a tolitarian society which North Korea is very reminiscent, Gilard that oppesses women under an extreme theocratic rule which ISIS and the Taliban attempts to impose - all of them share one commonality and that there wasn’t a single rebel who was successful in overthrowing an oppressive government. That is what truly a dystopia is. It is the helplessness and powerlessness that prevent one person from overcoming a government and especially a society.
that is because dysopias of that level are more unrealistic. North korea itself is some profane version of a miracle that it has not imploded into itself already. It has been drip fed life from china and from using criminal contacts. Gettiing help from the outside. But eventually there will be too many hungry people and they will jsut explode in a seething zombie horde like mass. Then you will have internal coups happening cause they will ahve the advantage to overthrow everyone by simply pointing as Kim jung un and saying 'he tastes like pork' if north korea was truly cut off its death would be swift, brutal, and tragic for the people living there.
The Handmaid's Tale was a thinly veiled depiction of modern Iran according to the Author in Multiple interviews. Basically she wanted to show the west how terrible the theocratic government there was by making it more familiar to them, like a what if it was happening here scenario.
To be fair, a dystopia inspired by the events of the Iranian revolution would be terrifyingly interesting. Imagine risking the life and safety of yourself and your family to bring down an oppressive regime, only to find yourself manipulated into accepting an even worse one, and being sent to the front because your neighbors just invaded your country taking advantage of the chaos you helped creating. It must have been such a terrible, soul crashing experience.
@@runningcommentary2125 they are wildly different, but yes, it would be interesting. The French Revolution is less suited to be the base of a dystopia imo.
Once again, I have to mention Psycho Pass (very slight spoilers) The Villain is actually the one defying the dystopia while trying to get the main characters to recognise the dystopia and fight against it aswell. And one of the main characters is in kind of a moral grey zone, regarding the dystopia as a necessary evil that one should be able to defy on his/her own will but does help in the bigger picture. The other main character is actually just a cog in the machine, slowly waking up and making up her own mind about the world she lives in. It's quite relevant since the dystopia came about because of the prevalence of artificial intelligence and the villain is kind of a villainous character put in the usual hero's underdog role
I like psychopass because while still a dystopia in many ways the world it presents is also generally better than the one we have now and the rulers want to improve themselves and help the people as seen in the season 2 finale.
@Saumya Kulp He is definitely a villain. Because rather than being a rebel, he is a terrorists. You May be fighting a dystopia goverment, but this doesn't give you any right to even slightly touch civilians. In this case calling the system a Dystopia is... Only 99% correct, I would say. The Psycho-Pass is a system that recognizes who Is in the mental condition to be a criminal. Basically, It permits a society where criminals either hide or are taken to a check up that makes them return normal even IF they haven't done shit. It's not about your crime, It's about the possibility to commit a crime. Some people are considered "too much" and are kept jailed forever. Some of them can work in the police tho, under control of sane people (which is relevant because TL;DR most policemen turn into "possible criminals"). And this system isn't based on pure perfect science as people think, but on something else that is completely spoiler. So yeah, the system is flawed and not truly perfect. It also makes people unable to understand crime and therefore unable to take action by themselves. It does negate humanw rights to some and uses drugs and propaganda to keep society in check... BUT people live decently. Even good. You are not forced to give up your feelings, your happiness or whatever. It's totslly a dystopia, but it's one that works truly for its citizens, not for an elite or bad people in Power.
@@Hyperversum3 The thing is tho, the system is not actually an artificial intelligence, but just the combine brain power crazy yet genius level criminal. So it is basically a system of criminals recognizing who is the future criminal. Even though the antagonist is a terrorist that harm countless the system don't want to get rid of him, instead it want him to be integrated with them.
Totally agree. I love how it isn't opressive, it's just that a utopia would need to prevent emotion, and that is a dystopia. So logically, any utopia is a dystopia.
I didn’t like it. (Spoilers) It’s a pretty generic utopia, which I find boring. Oh, everybody’s extremely suspiciously happy, don’t question the whole vague plot point where people straight up vanish, and something-something moral about why emotions are so great. Utopias always work this way: everyone’s happy, but there’s a horrible secret hiding underneath and thus we should destroy it. I predicted that Release was just killing people before Jonas gets hooked up with the Giver, and waddya know. It even draws on bits and pieces of general assholery associated with oppression or just dumb mistakes through ‘if you’re not the same, you die.’ The book treats this reveal as something incredible, and sure, I bet it is for Jonas. But it’s just so...boring.
If you're ever having trouble getting through a story in a dystopia, I highly recommend you take notes to grade the ruling government on their overall level of competence and sanity. It can make a lot of otherwise boring books a lot more engaging to read.
This is a good idea. I've heard people say that leaning about story telling takes them out of the narrative, but I like being an active audience rather than a passive one
The whole reason you don't see a lot of competent dystopias in modern fiction is partly because modern audiences want to see the good guys win, and unless the leaders of the dystopia are complete idiots, they'll be able to ferret out, and crush any sign of resistance like in 1984. Well that and a surplus of hack writers who don't bother putting much thought into background and world building.
My favorite dystopia is Animal Farm. Even though it is about the Soviet Union, it was written to display the silent takeover by tyranny, and what it looks like. That book is great.
"Books burned by the government" Ahem, In Fahrenheit 451 the order to burn all books on sight was not a demand from on high but rather at the request of the people, Fahrenheit 451 according to Bradbury was not a story about the government as a ruling class keeping society ignorant but rather a story abut the ignorant masses preventing the exceptional from becoming educated and making them feel dumb by comparison and how a lack of education leads to mindless hedonism and a loss of vital knowledge when it's needed most .. So it's less like 1984 and a bit more like Atlas Shrugged (At least the parts that aren't just Bradbury complaining about new media).
@@hedgehog3180 Regardless of how you feel about Atlas Shrugged (I, personally, am not very fond of it), Fahrenheit 451 is worth reading. It's a stylistically different and far more concise work with an objectively valuable message.
Fahrenheit 451 was a hot mess to me. Granted, I was 12 and in 7th grade at the time, but I just remember being highly confused and finding the story foggy and hard to read. There was an epithet at the back of the book that said the story was a first draft and 7th-grade me was like "EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE NOW! NO WONDER IT WAS CONFUSING HE NEVER EDITED IT!"
My favorite view of a Dystopian society is the Warhammer 40K universe, where everything has fallen apart, humanity is under siege from within, without, and beyond, and the only thing that is keeping humanity together and surviving is the brutal Imperium government and it's state mandated worship of the God-Emperor. It's a dystopia, but it's also humanities only hope for a better tomorrow, and what can be more soul crushing than that?
I think you actually got the completely wrong interpretation from 40K. It even serves the better version of the world right there for you on a platter. Before the warp storms humanity was living in a galactic utopia. The fact that the Imperium has basically forbidden innovation is obviously hurting them and biting them in the ass, and is also in conflict with the wishes of the GEoM. The Imperium is almost hilariously incompetent since without the benevolent dictator that was the emperor ruling it has turned into a corrupt fascist mess that can barely even keep itself together. I mean the emperor was trying to recreate the golden age of humanity, it was not his intention to create this but things fucked up and it happened.
I respectfully disagree, the golden age of humanity did see a utopia emerge, but it also set them up for failure. The optimism of the era blinded humanity to the potential danger of psykers as they began to emerge, and while the uprising of the Men of Iron doesn't get much detail, what we do know implies a society that had grown too dependent upon technology, and the resulting war scarred humanity so badly, that now artificial intelligence is forbidden. Compounded to the fact that humanity during the golden age had thought of their xenos neighbors as friends. But when humanity's golden age came to an end, they xenos turned on their friends, either killing or enslaving them. There is a method to the Imperium's madness, and it came from some very harsh lessons that their ancestors had to learn. As for the technology issue, the war against the men of iron, age of strife, and adeptus mechanicus civil war during the Horus Heresy destroyed most of the Mechanicus knowledge, they are literally using scraps of books from a bombed out library, trying to piece things back together, hence their stance on technology and their quest to find the SCT's, they're terrified of losing what little they have left, the last bits of the wisdom of the ancients. As for the Imperium, the Horus Heresy series is dropping some big hints, that this is what the Emperor planned all along, a rebellion and his enthronement, along with the rise of a cult worshiping him. Instead of things going to hell, the Imperium as it is was planned from the very beginning, as a major step on the Emperor's and Malcadors master plan to defeat chaos and ensure human dominance of the galaxy. The dude was a master manipulator who cares for humanity as a whole, but not most humans, as Guilliman discovered, to the Emperor the Primarchs were absolutely nothing more than tools.
Robert Claus That is just Bullshit. The only reason it failed was because of the Eye of terror and the influence of Chaos rather than Shortcomings. Also optimism is the most vital force for progress and without it, we would be stuck in the stone ages. Besides WH is pulp fiction and makes no sense, it's just dumb and ignores core aspects of Human progress like Education.
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@@basilofgoodwishes4138 Read more of it, it stays internally consistent most of the time (there's some hated authors retconning major elements or ignoring them) Drop the high and mighty act, most of humanity is "retarded" for WH there's plenty reason for the lack of education besides the planetary autonomy, spread colonies etc. etc. Chaos is a threat made worse only by the Eldar who kindly murder fucked a new god into existence and opened the Eye of Terror. To ignore human nature (Khorne and Slaanesh alone!) and proclaim educating the commoners on Chaos is simply stupid. The biggest mistake was the lack of education on Chaos for the Primarchs and even then Magnus knew the dangers when Tzeench tricked Horus by showing him the future he would create trying to prevent it from happening It's hard to be optimistic when even changing or not changing your underwear feeds the Chaos gods and a swarm of intergalactic ultra-predators are coming to devour the galaxy who might be running from something even more terrifying then them. Literal demons, Chaos worshippers and Alien races some of who'm were created as an "indestructible" weapon of sentient fungus WH makes sense even it's "magic" is one of the best systems in fiction as it's limits are defined
WH40k is all soul-crushing and no-hope-for-tomorrow and whatnot, but the end result isn't a dystopia in the traditional sense. It's a world designed to squeeze the maximum amount of concentrated awesome out of it.
I remember hearing one of my highschool english teachers say this: "Someone's utopia is someone else's distopia" In a lot of cases utopias are actually distopias that look perfect on the surface. Just because a society is a haven for technical advancements, doesnt mean that it is perfect. Because a utopia is essentially an impossible ideal. For something like that to work everyone would have to be satisfied with what they have, their role in life, etc. However, people always want to improve on their lives and have nice things. There is nothing particularly wrong with wanting nice things untill greed is involved. So really a utopia is only a utopia to the people it benefits. Rapture from the Bioshock series comes to my mind. Rapture before it fell was inveritable paradise if you were not poor and were either really smart, had ambition or were generally the best at a certain skill or trade, but obviously not everyone in Rapture had those qualities. There was also the explotation of small children for the sake of sciencey magic powers where the substance use to give everyone those powers becomes jack shit insane.
Shinsekai yori anyone? Imho, it made it just perfect. Semi-utopia, that is slowly turning to a complete distopia with a pretty face as you keep learning more about the world.
@@АннаЛиберт-ь1й Hell yeah! I'm so glad to see someone else who've watched it. It doesn't get enough recognition. Easily the most interesting, chilling, complex, intelligent anime I've ever see (maybe together with Psycho-Pass). The beginning seems like such a perfect world, full of sunshine, everyone is friendly and happy and safe... And then you learn more and start to realize how rotten their society actually is. Don't know about you, but I had that underlying sense of dread ever since the copy-cats were first mentioned. And when Maria and Mamoru left, I could practically feel the grief that Saki experienced.
It is less dystopian and more post apocalyptic, but The Maze Runner is definitely a battle Royale. So is The Scorch Trials, but less in movie than the book.
One of the reasons I feel Hunger Games is more successful than a lot of its copycats is that Katniss is explicitly a figurehead. Like, the first book, she’s just a desperate kid trying to survive. All her “rebellious acts” is either pragmatism to survive on her part (teaming up with Peeta and playing up her relationship with him to win sponsors, even if it does become actual feelings by the end of the series, the berries so both she and Peeta could survive) or kindness (covering Rue in flowers and genuinely mourning her.) Catching Fire, she’s still pragmatic, and she realizes the danger she’s in. She and Peeta are still playing up the relationship, and she’s on a press tour to placate the masses. She’s aware that the 74th games have changed something, but we only get hints of an organized actual rebellion until the end. Cinna turns her wedding dress into a literal propaganda piece without her knowledge. Most of her tribute alliance in the 75th games is aware of and part of the rebellion, with the exception of her and Peeta. Even in the last book, where Katniss is actively involved in the rebellion, she’s a propaganda figure, not a front line fighter. We see her lead a rebel squad once and it ends terribly. She’s absolutely riddled with PTSD, cause she’s a teenage girl who’s been through unimaginable trauma. Killing President Coin is the most genuine rebellion she does during the story, and it’s purposefully against her role as Coin’s figurehead, not the oppressive government that’s been the focus for the last three books. And her ending isn’t to help usher in the new age and care about her people. She settles down with Peeta and has kids, nothing to do with the government, and the epilogue still makes it clear that both she and Peeta are still profoundly psychologically damaged by the end of the story, but have managed to find some measure of peace in their family and remembering the people they lost. Compare this to my personal least favorite book from this general era of fiction, Divergent. Tris has to be explicitly told “you’re special, the government will kill you, you have to either keep your head down or fight back.” And what is this extreme difference? Having more than one personality trait. And being aware when you hallucinate. And yes, i know they tried to justify with the whole “Being Divergent is super special cause of weird gene editing”, but it’s stupid. And before the plot of the book, the society isn’t even that bad. Until the lady from the smart faction decides to make the brave faction her personal army, the world isn’t a dystopia, it just kinda sucks. Does it suck you have to pick a personality trait or be a homeless person? Sure. But is it dystopic? No, it’s really not that different than picking a career and being stuck with that your whole life. They tell us the government is bad because they killed Tori’s brother and Four’s mentor and a bunch of other people, but sike! We find out in the last book the didn’t actually die, they were just outside the fence! And we don’t really get a resolution to the government collapse at the end. Tris dies and everyone’s just allowed to do whatever they want. Her love interest hooks up with the best friend character, and seeing how the majority of Divergent focused more on the romantic subplot than the dystopia, it’s kind of a slap in the face for readers to see him be sad for a couple chapters then move on. Anyway, main point: Hunger Games keeps in mind how realistic a rebellion would be and why people would rebel against this dystopia, and actually cares about the impact of the dystopia, Divergent just wanted a cool rebellion power fantasy.
Hunger Games (or at least the first two books) holds up because Katniss starts out as a genuinely tough pragmatist who is fighting to overthrow a believably evil dystopian government that exerts control through a twisted combination of dramatized reality TV and child murder. What caused a lot of people to check out was because as time went on, most of the narrative was spent on wondering which cute boy Katniss was going to kiss. Divergent, on the other hand, is a bunch of hot nonsense.
@@ManiaMac1613 did you actually read the third book? Most of it is Katniss suffering from PTSD. The love triangle is more a symbol of what Katniss wants to be after the war. Peeta represents softness and comfort, Gale represents being a warrior and a survivor. And after everything she goes through, she can’t be with Gale, cause she’s too broken to fight and kill anymore.
@Leanne Chambers It’s been a whole-ass decade since I read those books, I truthfully don't remember the third book all that well. I also didn't watch the final movie because I'd kinda checked out of the story already.
OSP: *Describes dystopia Me: "Aren't most dystopias gradual, they stealth up and twist the system into a cage throught gradudual policy change before people realize it's too late? (Like the prequels)" *looks out window "oh..."
I actually liked the prequals for that! They dealt with a complex topic and brought actual world building, where the original trilogy was kinda shallow.
HFM: "This involves relying on everyone's favorite dystopian callback, the Nazis. But relying on allusions to them to establish the horribleness of your society can lead to a stale and unoriginal story". Me: Huh, kinda like the First Order in Star Wars HFM: Proceeds to show the scene in Star Wars where the First Order gives the Nazi salute.
In the time of the original trilogy, you didn't have to show it outright because the Nazi's were still relatively recent; if today WW2 was just as long ago as back then, it would've ended it 1986. You see that a lot with allusions to Nazi's in that period; it always was more subtle, but it was just as clear back then as the outright Nazi salute right now. Also the prequels were a pretty clear metaphor to the Nazi's rising to power, by abusing democratic institutions. It was never ambiguous, it only is when you watch it from the perspective of now. Which in itself is pretty terrifying; we're slowly forgetting how the Nazi regime came to be so comparisons have to be really on the nose.
I'd have loved for you guys to mention stuff like gattaca . it's a dystopia that does let the protagonist go against the system and not simply be crushed but still leaves the dystopia in tact. because the protagonist isn't overthrowing the dystopia for the greater good but instead the story is about cheating your way through a dystopia. trying to get to the privileged class. as such, it exposes the characters to more different situations thus giving them more deph. " cheating a dystopia" & " rebelling for only oneself without changing the system" would have been really interesting for you guys to talk about. these kind of stories set themselves apart by being inherently character driven. the challenges are made by the dystopia and a the dystopia is never overthrown but just cheated with luck and skill and determination in a very small way, making the dystopia still terrifying while showing a glimmer of hope and letting the protagonist succeed ( at least partly) but at a huge cost or unsustainable. gattaca is the best example I could thing of off the top of my head but there are various ones like that.
Red, will you ever consider do a video on The Arabian Nights. I think it would be really interesting and you could even collaborate with Blue if you wanted to explain the historical context.
Dystopia in literature nowadays, AKA, the genre of "I want to have an all-adolescent cast of protagonists so that YA readers will feel empowered and smart, like they are the future and humanity's only hope", but in actuality, they're always written like real-life, idiotic adolescents.
@Johnny Cage This is what we call wish fulfillment. The idea you could wake up and suddenly be epic and have magic, power, fame, etc. Harry Potter is 100% an example. I don't think it's bad, but those kind of stories aren't my favorite.
@Super Greyflash I just want to add that I have nothing against being cool, or having cool characters. I'm against giving them cool powers without them even trying.
@@Error-gz3pp I don't think nearly enough YA novels take inspiration for their characters from real people. If that were true, they would be more relatable, more insecure, and more understandable. But YA novels I read are always about a wonder child who has only upstanding qualities, followed by a few other schmucks who have like one trait each.
I want a combination story of the depressing POV and modern dystopia, and the story ends with the main charcter and his rebellion overthrowing the government, only for him to become the ruler and not even fix the dystopia, posibly even making it worse. Then you have a sequel where his son or something learns about his story and when given the chance to overthrow the government for good or become the ruler, he chooses the good option this time and there you go a two part story for double the cash
There was this one series I read when I was little called the among the hidden series. It was a distopion world where after many droughts and food shortages having 3 children was outlawed and most people expect the top of the top were barely scraping by. It had 7 books and would jump perspectives between multiple 3rd children becoming a part of and fighting in a rebellion. But instead of it just being kids leading a generic rebellion they made it into, what would be closer to, a realistic rebellion. It had been going on for years with thousands of others working on it. The kids weren't the main magical protagonist force but just had enough stubbornness to keep going. And instead of just having a neat little ending, it was messy. With a huge power gap left corrupted people took the credit, took control *again.* Honestly it was such a good series and even now that I'm older I reccomend it.
Bro some kids in my class read that for lit circles. I thought it was super interesting but it was the shortest book (meant for the kids who don't like to read) so I got put into the Maximum Ride group. That brought back memories
OOH! NOW I HAVE TO WRITE A STORY ABOUT A DYSTOPIA TAKEN DOWN BY A VOLCANIC ERUPTION! Also, so much historical stuff to allude to there (cough dutch east indies cough)
WiseWillow series that try to replicate the success of hunger games by stripping the story down to the barest of bones and the romance and forget to actually write a good plot with it Usually featuring a female protagonist with an overly dramatic name like Violet Lasting or America Singer
Dystopia noun: A place where Fortnite is the dommaint thing found on TH-cam. ~I once watched a few fortnite videos because I work at a daycare and I need to releate to the kids. Now my recommendations are flooded with them.
Hey guys! I just want to mention the mistborn series, the first book is a very dystopian story and they do the standard save the people and take over new rule, but the next two books address all those problems that comes after
Oh my God you talking about the giver finally made me remember the name of the book which I've been looking for nearly 8 years now. Nobody knew what book I was talking about but I remembered very loose ideas I thought were cool that I could maybe use for my own stories but I never could fully remember, I'm so happy now that I can read it again ;-;
And this is why I always recommend "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin, the guy who wrote The Stepford Wives and Rosemary's Baby. Easily one of the best dystopias I've ever read and the ending is wild af.
The Giver is my favorite Dystopia book. I love it to the point where I dont read it for such a long time I forget most of the story so I can re-read it again with as much of the original joy I got when I first read it.
This is why I love Hunger Games so much, because Katniss isn’t a choosen one, she’s a puppet for snow’s regime and then for coin’s. The story is about a journey to personhood and a story on the fall of paneme
Hunger Games was a really good dystopia showing the monetization of the suffering of the less fortunate, even down to how Katniss didn't see Peeta as a perfect love interest but more of a way to stay alive and use the love team pov the audience had as leverage for her means. It just gets a very bad rep as it's what started the boom in poor dystopias where romantic subplots outweighed the main plot
@@jeffbenton6183 I agree it wasn't the intent, but Plato would be labeled a totalitarian today based on his views. My point was more to show that the divergent series of novels, maze runner, and even hunger games to an extent had a common and chilling template
It is a dystopia, but I think it's a little more self-aware than that. There's a moment when he talks about how easy it'll be to establish, and the first thing he says "the first thing we'll have to do is banish everyone over 10 years old from the city," which I think is quite clearly a joke. The point of the book is about the ideal human soul, and defining justice after all, rather than mainly about politics. And there's a bit of a tradition of ironically pointing out how Utopias don't really exist in Utopian fiction (More's Utopia does it as well.) Basically, the Republic's less evil than just weird.
Ooh; I would love to see that, especially since these days, dystopias and post-apocalyptic stories tend to get lumped together when they don't have to be. Wind Waker is a great example of a post-apocalyptic world that isn't a dystopia. It also happens to be my favourite post-apocalypse story of all time.
The Complicated Life Yeah, 99% of the Movie is them losing, getting away, losing again, only for the last 1% to be them winning, only to have a new threat show up. 😂
One thing that's really funny about the LEGO movie is that it actually wasn't that well received in Denmark. I think it's because while it's exceptional in the US, in Denmark it's not really that special considering we've been creating children's media that has been handling these topics way deeper for a long time.
I’d love to see a dystopian story where the POV’s rebellion fails miserably and he’s forced to see the corpses of all the past rebellions before being added to that pile
Dredd (2012) is one of my absolute favorite dystopian films. It's so damn good, and often subtle, while also being _incredibly underrated and unknown_ !
The Idea of consolidating urban sprawl into super towers is an idea that would save a lot of space and allow much of it to be converted to farmland/natural space.
+Daegan Noel True. Not to mention that it doesn't need to look so bleak, or be so enclosed. I remember when I was quite young, my family lived in a huge townhouse+apartment complex, where the buildings formed a massive, and delightfully blue colored, walled rectangle, and there were multiple hallways that would lead to the outer perimeter, which consisted of a two-laned road. One part of the interior had a great swimming pool, with a 2-story recreation center right next to it, and the rest of the interior was _filled_ with all sorts of trees and waist-high hedges that would form pathways. It was always beautiful and calming there, because the greenery paired so perfectly with all the blue buildings, creating what felt like a cozy, sheltered area, that was great for playing "Cowboys and Indians" with our water guns. Incidentally, I'm aware that New York has a place called River Park Towers that strongly resemble a megacity block, in both appearance and history... don't think I'd like to live there, haha!
I might suggest that this is a conversation about "archology" tech'... AND no, it does NOT have to be so bleak or confining. The question to resolve first is "Scale"... AND to avoid overtly confining residents, that scale should be BIG... like really BIG... BIGGER THAN THAT, even... If we can get that part engineered, the rest will be about proportionate space and scheduling allocations... We (humans) still need jobs to do, something activity-wise to feel laboriously useful and contributive, BUT we also need leisure... time to contemplate, decompress, and the ample opportunity to let important issues slide a bit and remember to be fanciful and silly from time to time... SO spacial allocations and scheduling (with flexibility) would be required for those kinds of purposes as much as anything else, including self-improvement, professional efforts, etc... To really get efficiency out of it, engineers will have to start ALL over again about how we examine and thereby structurally design buildings and structures. Once you get something of a scale to be an archology, you're not going to want it to have to be replaced or rebuilt all at once. That sort of disrepair or maintenance disparity absolutely HAS GOT TO STOP... So thinking "modular construction" and renovation is probably the order of this kind of magnitude... Implementation doesn't have to be an all-out revolution either. Take any sufficient set of current buildings with adequate structure, and work the engineering out to bridge the gaps and bring those separate structures together to become one mega-structure... In a sense, hybridizing designs and marrying the buildings themselves together... The internal negative spaces can then be utilized for a variety of reasonable purposes, including additional living spaces, traffic areas (for say... electric vehicles on shorter ranges), storage for myriad purposes, even greenhousing platforms to counter "economic concentrations" and allow more access to fresher produce, even just herbs and spices (depending on the building's internal societal cultures)... While I found Judge Dredd's Mega-plex ideals interesting (okay, fascinating)... AND I enjoyed further explorations of things like it through everything from RPG's to Sim-City games, I often found that there really wasn't a whole lot of explanation about why we couldn't (or wouldn't?) steadily implement modest engineering steps to improve little things, like traffic in "Downtown Areas" for people like messengers, delivery trucks and vans, and errand-people... or even just to do something about "lunch hour rush". Maybe it would seem expensive, but since city-planning boards are such a pain in the ass about parking and traffic jams (a non-stop menace to social order) it would make some sense to move some of the traffic off the roads and up above them... right? Just a thought. Don't put too serious an effort to it. That might be dangerous... (lolz) I do hope you picked up an inquisitive smirk and are thinking something like..."that could be cool"... That's all. ;o)
My favourite dystopian film is Brazil(1985), which features a bureaucratic dystopia in which a rebellion is referenced to, but never actually appears in the film. In fact the "rebellious" characters are just people illegally performing unsanctioned work to try and get stuff actually done. By the end of the story you're left wondering if the "rebellion" ever actually existed in the first place, and wasn't just the government creating a scapegoat for their own failures.
My favorite dystopia is by far Autodale by Dead Sound. It’s an independent miniseries on TH-cam and it focuses primarily on world building, there are no main characters, and even almost no recurring characters, but it is so well done it is amazing!! From the graphic and animation choices to the writing , everything is just amazing! I love it so much!
Warhammer 40k is the Hold My Beer of Dystopias. It's multiple dystopias designed to all be unsolvable without an apocalypse or miracle. It would be too easy to keep consistent in it as a writer.
I would say that you're a fool if you think that they're unsolvable because at least with the Imperium it was very obviously not always like this and there is no reason why it can't go back to what it was like in the start. Or well there is, there is now an entrenched class with all the power that doesn't want that, but if you could get rid of them you could turn it into a pretty good place.
hedgehog3180 The Imperium was great at one point, but it’s been a dystopia for 10000 years. The populace is almost entirely uneducated and mostly spend their days working dangerous jobs so they don’t have to starve or serving as fodder for the Imperial Guard, the people keeping the Imperium shit are either just following orders from superiors with their heads up their asses, proffering from oppressing others or are filled with such zealous devotion that they legitimately think they’re doing a good thing. Not to mention the daily threats from aliens and daemons.
If you think that is easy then you’re delusional. Multiple dystopias also require intricate reasoning to ensure they stay that way. There’s a balance of entropy and chaos to ensure either the lack of societal dystopia of chaos or The ordered dystopia of other races. Tyranids and Orks don’t really have a society. They are more like animals actin on instinct. The Tau and Imperium keep a repressive order on their citizenry to keep it unified because giving them freedoms would lead to obscene consequences because of the other influences out there.
Sophie I think its impact and purpose varies wildly based on how early it's presented in the story. If the story starts with "I don't remember anything!" it gives the author an appropriate reason to present "trivial information" to the audience thru the protag. It's easy for the audience to connect with a protag that's just as uninformed about the world as they are. In contrast, it's an interesting tool to use AFTER your story has already spent time building up its world and characters. Did 2 characters start out not trusting each other, but grew closer together thru shared hardships? Too bad, one of them has forgotten all that and has reverted back to their "I don't trust your kind" glory days. I'd almost call it a branch off the "character death" plot. The body is still here and alive, but the character we knew is gone. Obviously, this works best within a group setting as this will stress-test the group dynamics.
I kinda want to write a dystopia where the problem isn't totalitarianism, but anarchy. Everyone has total freedom to do anything they can, even if it restricts the rights of others (say, by killing them). The world is divided between various organized settlements (usually short-lived mini-dystopias of various flavors) and chaotic no-mans-lands between. The protagonist would presumably get involved in an attempt to restore a civil government with the power and incentives to protect people's rights from other people. ...And that's all I got so far.
Timothy McLean, that's an interesting concept. I've seen a lot of post apocalyptic, zombie type stories focus on similar themes of anarchy, but I haven't actually seen something focused on restoring government. Perhaps it could use similar themes of the dystopian genre, such as people insisting that they live in a utopia, and certain groups pushing to keep things the same? Except inverted, in a sense.
Maybe have the story question "how many rules are too many?" or maybe people aren't happy with the idea of having a government because the government is what caused the beginning of this anarchic dystopia?
You should cover "Divine Intervention/Deus ex machina" next! I feel like you could really sum it up quite well, Red. In the most sarcastic way possible.
If you actually read the hunger games books, instead of just watching the movies, Katniss actually describes the form of government set up post-revolution as basically representative democracy (though she doesn’t use those terms) not unlike what we currently have, complete with actual elections and multiple candidates to choose from. She also brings up the question of “what next?” in the text before the revolution ends, while working with the rebels. She’s notably sceptical that a republic could work seeing as how badly the world ended up before, under this system.
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks Red! This was such a fun thing to make with you.
~ Tim
Hello Future Me I actually read the book The Giver in English for an Assessment Task and we learnt alot about this as well
Wait your name is Tim?
I always thought it was Hello
The One ring hanging around your neck in your avatar. Nice touch !
Please make a collab with Blue on your channel! You could talk about historical inspirations in LotR or disect it's philosophy.
Once he's back from his trip of course.
you finally did it
ok got it
utopia smooth curvy buildings
dystopia pointy angular buildings
So, Soviet Union architecture? I always knew americans hated us eastern europeans. Such racism
utopia - metropolis
dystopia - gotham
Really? I always thought Dystopia was blocklike and uniform buildings instead of pyramids and spires.
@@ssj4galactus Didn't metropolis basically get destroyed or sumthin im just sayin
Personally, I find Brutalism-style buildings to be nice and I'd love something that turns things around and detaches these kinds of aesthetics from "dystopia" and "utopia". Give me my concrete cube buildings and have the society be a free democracy where people are generally happy and have rights.
Now i posted this on the 1984 video but
*BEGONE THOUGHT*
I'm legit stealing this
@@camillaquelladegliaggettiv4303 credit your sh°tposting
*and don’t come back*
thank you
@@YeahAlright1983 Always make sure that you have your sh°tposting indented within the document and the source is put into MLA format in the bibliography at the end of the paper
To quote my older brother: "The underlying theme of Dystopias have changed from 'Don't let this happen' to 'Fix this!'. So, what does that say about our world?"
Your brother is a wise dude
Wow, that's deep
That people have lost hope, and they see dystopia as inevitable.
lol
This is caused by the fact that our society is already miserable, and our day to day lives are crushing, that s why many dystopias "force" their characters to do something. It s like saying "You re life is bad, but not as bad as actually forcing you to do something" witch only helps people come to terms with the word they live in, instead of encouraging them to fix it.
Red: *mentions Dystopian love triangle*
Terrible Writing Advice: _why hello there_
That would have been perfect
literally hunger games lol
General kenobi
YES SOMEONE KNOWS
Clarebear 0925 😂😂😂😂😂
Wow, you actually pointed out that the Lorax was a dystopia. I didn't even realize that.
How is the lorax a dystopia? its not utopia but I don't see why its a dystopia
jcscience 13 how in that you don’t know why Lorax is a dystopia, or how as in you don’t know how he didn’t realize it was a dystopia?
Answer!
Aaron Ma I’m pretty sure they meant the second one... as that would be the most direct response to the original comment.
How? I saw it in 3rd grade, and knew it was a dystopian.
Watching through the whole playlist, I now realize that the Lego Movie is literally just as many tropes as they could get wearing a trenchcoat.
Which is perfect appropriate for what they were going for which is why it works
What else would you make The LEGO Movie?
@@toe_sucker_4165 nothing, I guess, but knowing why I enjoyed it makes it all the more hilarious.
Yeah, you just take all the building blocks and piece them together. How else would you make a LEGO movie? ^_~
@@TyphinHoofbun genius
You know, I've been thinking.
Why haven't I seen a story where the protagonist is at the upper echelons of the dystopia and are there while the government starts to collapse due to issues. This protagonist would have much more freedom in how they act in comparison to the every man. There are so many ways you could go with this. Is the protagonist responsible for this mess or the reason it falls apart? Are they trying to keep the system together but ultimately powerless in comparison to the winds of change that the dystopia itself was unable to stop? Is the protagonist trying to capitalize on the situation for their own gain?
im currently writing a story with this idea "sorta" my 2 main characters are the upper clansmen of the story and they themselves rebel against their authorities that control the lowerclass. They are part of the problem.
Where one of them snaps and leads a rebellion the other stays on the controlling side, therefore we see both sides of this story
In A Brave New World, one of the first dystopian novels, the protagonist is an Alpha, so the top. The world doesn’t topple at the end, but it is disturbed.
Christopher Nuttall's _When the Bough Breaks_ is set during the collapse of a dystopia and the protagonist is the bodyguard of the dystopian emperor. A largely powerless emperor, since he hasn't quite reached his majority and his Grand Senate holds all the power since the emperor's dad died when he was two, a decade and a half ago. Despite this he still has prestige and, ostensibly, he _will_ have power once he reaches his majority.
The series as a whole, _The Empire's Corps,_ is about surviving the fall of the dystopia and picking up what pieces they can.
Then do it
You should write that book.
16:50 *Terrible Writing Advice rises over the horizon like an Eldritch Lovecraftian God*
“DID SOMEONE MENTION A LOVE TRIANGLE?!”
Inquisitor Thomas (Everyone goes mad)
Someone making a TWA reference on this channel?
Today is a good day.
Inquisitor Thomas, This made my day thank you
It sounds like you're describing Aphrodite...
DO I SENSE A FUTURE CROSSOVER.
I think what sets Hunger Games a part is how Snow answers the question "why didn't anyone rise up before?" Hope. There was no hope before Katniss. They had never seen a tribute who wanted to live as bad as she did, who wanted to get home as bad as she did, and who showed compassion as she did. That is what made her dangerous in Snow's eyes, she gave hope to others.
I think it is hope, but not really in the way you've worded it here. My impression was that nobody had really "won" before Katniss. Essentially, every winner prior to her was made to play by the capital's rules and become 'complicit' with the Games in exchange for their lives. That's the point of the victory tour and the extended celebrity status of previous victors- it's a message that even those who manage to make it out alive are only allowed to do so at the whims of the capital. Everyone must become a coward or a killer and usually both in order to win the games, and the outcome is always the same; people are horrible and will do anything to survive, so the capital is justified in the way they oppress the people.
Katniss, unlike those who came before her, WINS in a way they did not. She almost deprived them of any victor at all and thus, showed there IS a way to get out of the games without playing by the rules set by the capital. Only by bartering that potential for Peeta's life did she secure her actual desired outcome of both of them surviving. She created a lose-lose situation for the capital where before the capital wins no matter which children die and which live.
So yes, she provided hope... but not by wanting to live more than the others. She did it by demonstrating that people are both clever and determined enough to beat the capital with the right strategy and way of approaching the problem. (And no small amount of being able to get inside the head of the man in charge.)
The other big factor is that Katniss isn't doing this alone. There's a whole big revolution that she gets sucked into. Without her, they might have won or they might have lost, but it was a real threat to the powers that be before Katniss ever got involved, and if she died, they'd have found some other (probably less effective) symbol to rally everyone around. Katniss played a crucial role in winning, but she could never have won on her own.
District 13, too. We don't know much about what happened, but we know they tried to rebel, and were destroyed. The Capital says it's still smoldering. Is that what the others want to happen to their regions'? They didn't think so.
Reason 3: The writer thinks dark settings are "cool" and makes a Dystopia because the saw Blade Runner.
Blade runner is only a dystopia if you're a synth.
Or
Maze runner
R3GARnator it’s a dystopia of our own making
Yea, that's what they mean with "misery porn" you know
Reason 4: Hunger Games made a ton of money and I want to get on that gravy train!
One if my favorite dystopias is called “The Diary of Pelly D” it’s about a construction worker reading the diary of a girl who either disappeared or died. The story is about the beginning of a dystopia, instead of the end. Pelly starts off as a spoiled rich girl, but she ends up being removed from her home and life and possibly dying. It’s really good, and I highly recommend it.
It is quite good! Though it’s deeply troubling that the Diary of Anne Frank adapts so seamlessly into sci-fi
I've never heard Wall-E discussed as a Dystopia before, but it makes sense.
It's a Utopia. That's basically how I live, and it's nice :P
Indeed, everyone is run by a Buy 'n' Large Mega Corpocratic government.
I thought it was post apocalypse.....
@@intergalactic92 why not both?
In my case with Vendetta.
When I first saw the title I thought red had finally transcended space time to be able to talk to her future self
Ralph Ize that's what I thought
Ralph Ize *She already did*
Same tho
as man lol^^
Ralph Ize same
I really like the short story “Harrison Bergeron”
It’s main characters are the parents of the protagonist, Harrison. They basically witness Harrison’s attempt of rebellion on tv. It’s kinda interesting that it was both POV characters to provide insight, and a character trying to actively rebel.
@Greg Elchert oh its a Kurt Vonnegut book. That explains a LOT actually, lol.
I've only read Cat's Cradle and part of Slaughterhouse Five but he's a *chaotic* writer. I can definitely see him writing something like that.
Idk the tone of Harrison Bergeron is kinda wonk to a point where it really feels like satire. Like a libertarian's idea of what would happen if your socialists were given an inch of ground regarding government regulation or disadvantage accomodative policy. It feels like a parody of the red scare invasion of the body snatchers type media more than actual dystopian fiction, I guess. If it meant to be taken at face value, it's just feels really over simplistic compared Vonnegut's other works.
@@Ok-df1uz absolutely, though I’d also say it’s very good for highschool-level analysis.
@@Ok-df1uzin my English class we did read the short story as an example of satire! (Preparation for animal farm)
I fucking despise that story...
"People are turned to dust because they have blue eyes"
Hi, I see you're one of the 500 people who bought the book I published when I was 14. I am so sorry.
Quote:
§
Tisvana Allen
For 1 år siden
"People are turned to dust because they have blue eyes"
Hi, I see you're one of the 500 people who bought the book I published when I was 14. I am so sorry.
§
Really wish it's just say:
§
Tisvana Allen
For 1 år siden
"People are turned to dust because they have blue eyes"
Hi, I see you're one of the 500 people who bought the book I published when I was 14. I am so grateful!
§
Line Bjørgen this is a bit scary ngl
Lol
Link the book
@@xxmemestar69xx82 ^
You know what I want to see more of? Dystopian comedies. Sure, it kind of goes against most of the common wisdom for the genre, but hey, you brought up Wall-e. And there is a good reason to do it: dystopias are inherently satirical. They're designed to exaggerate society's faults until they're impossible to ignore, and while that's usually used to highlight society's ugliness, it can be used just as easily to highlight its absurdity. There's the no law that says all dystopias must be dark and hopeless and depressing.
Like Terry Gilliam's _Brazil_ ?
Or the Death of Stalin?
The Good Place in some parts is kind of dystopian and it’s hilarious
isn't clockwork orange basicly a dystopian comedy?
but anyways it would be super interesting if we got to see a dystopia on the perspective on the ruler.
basicly we need to see the ussr in the eyes of stalin or the ccp in the eyes of the chairman.
i really want to see a dystipian comedy where the protagonist is a high ranking officer in an oppressive regime while the popular has to live in extreme and brutal conditions with many oppressive rules, the protagonist being one of the tyrants is uneffected and we follow their ridiculous antics within the story showing major contrast between how the top %1 live their lives vs the oppressed prols
I don`t know why no one mentioned Idiocracy yet...
10:57 Fahrenheit 451 is still quite relevant. It's ultimately about people turning away from educating themselves and choosing intellectual numbness, the book burning & censorship are just symptoms of that.
Oh man it feels worse now
Feels like the world is going to hell in a handbasket
Recently read that book, and it was totally organic. People just.. stopped caring.
I don't like dystopias. They are often coarse and rough and irritating, and they get everywhere in recent media.
I Destroyed them, they are Nazis, so i slaughtered them like Nazis. I HATE THEM!
It is even worse when they are real. But I am too afraid to get into politics
Oh I'm not brave enough for politics...
You shouldn't.
Sir you have made my day
I have a writer friend of mine who had this idea for this dystopian novel, in which the original dystopian government is overthrown by our plucky heroes within the first 1/10 of the story...only for our heroes to be probably as bad, if not worse, than the previous government.
The main character is an egotistical manipulative sociopath, who convinces the reader that he is just another soul being crushed by the evil dictatorship he's toppling. We eventually find out after he takes control that he is actually just as bloody as the previous dictator, sentencing people to death for not sharing the same political beliefs as him.
The story ends with another coup, which puts the mc in prison (where he writes the final chapters, trying to convince the audience that he is the one being oppressed and not the monster the audience knows he is) and another brutal dictatorship takes his place.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
My friend thought this up after reading some shit YA dystopia novel I cant remember the ending of, which he felt ended too happily with a bunch of teenagers with zero government experience in charge of their nation. He saw that it would lead to disaster, but the book implies that everything would be fine and nothing bad would happen. That's how he explained it to me though.
The only thing that would make it better in my opinion: the "hero" is not a manipulative sociopath, but an idealist who's persuaded he IS the hero and is doing he right thing, when he in fact imposes his ideals using questionnable methods, thinking that if the goal is a brighter future, then the end justifies the means.
Not all dictator want power and money. Some can honestly believe they are their nation's best solution.
owlnemo my friend used Humbert Humbert from Lolita as an example of what he was trying to accomplish with the MC:
Guy who does awful, unforgivable shut, but able to convince a more mindless reader that he is a good man.
What you suggested, my friend said he thought about it before, and decided against it.
My friend is very anti revolutionary. He has ancestors who fought for slavery during g the civil war, and he's one of the few southerners to accept the fact his family fought for slavery. He is not keen on revolutionaries, especially the ones we have today, calling for Trump's downfall (he doesn't like Trump, but doesn't think it's worth throwing out our government over).
Luke Freet oh, I see. It's indeed a clever thing to have the protagonist "convince you" he's a hero while being a horrible person. I was afraid it would be too much of a caricature, but if the inspiration is Humbert Humbert I'm sure it'll be subtle enough and mortifying for the reader to gradually discover that the person they're rooting for is a monster. That can have a lot of impact!
Regarding political views, eh, we each have our own, and it makes sense that people are obviously not going to write a book which message is the opposite of what they believe in. I'd be really interested to read what this person's dystopia is like, that said. Since everyone's cultural background influences their views on what dystopia could be, it would obviously be very different from what a 30 something Swiss like me can picture.
Reminds me a bit of President Coin in the Hunger Games,
Spoilers
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She is revealed to just want to take over the power from Snow, and continue the games ; only this time with the children and grandchildren of the old regime.
You don't deserve your friend's confidence. Why are you giving away his idea for free to absolute nobodies in a youtube comment section; if you value your friend I'd suggest you delete this comment quickly!!
I'd say in the Hunger Games the romantic triangle thing is actually sorted after the dystopia one is done, with Katniss decision on which boy she wants being more about how she is going to recover and rebuild. I also think it was a much better portayal of trauma than, say, Harry Potter, because in the books Katniss is still having nightmares TWENTY YEARS after the end of the Hunger Games. The dystopia might just about be done but she is still mucked up by watching friends and family die.
Honestly Hunger Games is really the only dystopia I liked reading all the way to the end, other ones just feel flat
Something I noticed about the love triangle in the hunger games is that it serves as a reflection of katnis' feelings towards revolution. Most of her choices concerning the love triangle are accompanied by a choice to fight or not against the Capitol, like when she kisses a whipped gale and decides to follow him into revolt, or when she grows tired or war in the third book and grows closer to peeta again. It gives the love triangle thematic purpose, so it doesn't feel out of place within the narrative.
@@matthewparker9276 Yep, and kinda explains why the two are so different, and also characterized so different. Peeta’s a strapping, good looking blond boy from the richer part of 12. He’s used to cushy bread and pining for the love of his life without having approximately 50 times the chance of a normal person to be selected for the presumed insta-death arena. Meanwhile, Gale breaks the rules constantly, hunts; his family has been ravaged by poverty and a mine accident he had no control over. He’s got dark hair and bulging muscles. Sure the two of them both have home-life flaws, (I mean hello there Peeta’s abusive mother) but one of them clearly grew up in a better place than the other, despite them both having to grow up ahead of what they normally should. Their differences in appearance and background highlight that.
Also Gale loses the love triangle because he develops weapons that are simply too far over the boundary than what Katniss can accept, representing her change of heart regarding the idea of a revolution, i.e how far is too far?
The love triangle was hardly a love triangle. It was meant to represent the yearning for a calm peaceful home life against the cold revolution or Peeta (home) vs. Gale (Revolution)
At its heart a dystopia is a recipe for a LOVE TRIANGLE
(Terrible writing advice raises its eldritch head)
I despise love triangles there the worst and horribly out of place in these stories
@@cripplinganxiety1941 they're not all bad, but they need to be thought out from page one instead of shoehorned in.
I really want to see another crossover with either Red or Hello Future Me arguing about something against TWA
@@bobmcguffin5706 yes, we need it!!!
My god, that'd be perfect. TWA constantly proposing the WRONG way to do it, only to be faced by Red/HFM pointing out what's wrong with that. Until TWA has an apparent moment of revelation... before snapping back to insanity as all things should be.
Now we just need a video on Love Triangles from Hello Future Me, Overly Sarcastic Productions and Terrible Writing Advice.
Osp has made it
We got at least one of those.
This
I think what most People overlook in Vendetta is the fact that V has been working on taking down the regime literally since the beginning so what we are shown is the third act of his story, the culmination of his work. and in-universe it is never sure that he will succeed.
5:00 "AND THEN THERE WERE NO SEQUELS."
Agreed.
Oh ye...
Da no. of likes
Agreed
Fuck you the Matrix sequels were great.
Mark Henderson no u
Mark Henderson I agree
I would like to see a collaboration between Terrible Writing advice and Overly Sarcastic Productions.
Casual CraftMan that would be amazing!
The sarcasm would collapse on itself into a black hole of smarminess
Aaron Luedemann hey a ship name!!! XD
I'm pretty sure I found one because of the other
Me too, even youtube shipps them. When will be the final they the shippers prophicied.
"What makes our hero different from everyone else?"
An immortal king (eternally young in body but not mind) has developed dementia in his old age, allowing his ministers to basically take over the kingdom while the priesthood go to ever darker lengths to make the king ascend into godhood. The hero, a child selected for a human sacrifice, is able to escape with the help of his fellow prisoners, sees the king sitting on his thrown with his magical sword across his lap, and kills said king by shoving the sword through the king's chest. This prompts the king to ascend, overcoming the dementia, and prompting him to grant the child the powers of a Paladin . . . or maybe a Hexblade Warlock. Falling into the life of a criminal the Paladin becomes a Robin Hood-esq character as the ministers and priests delve ever further into depravity. Eventually, the Paladin is brought into a rebellion by the death of his friend/mentor, and channels the powers granted to him by the new god.
So, the reason he's the chosen one is because he helped the old king ascend to godhood, becoming that god's only recognized champion in that world.
Found the fellow D&D player XD
Immortal king sounds a lot like the god emperor
@@bladefox-ik5iy You mean the 'Emperor of Mankind' from Warhammer 40K?
I never played 40K, and and know nothing about the deeper lore. Just reading the wiki page, it looks like the effects of the immortality are reversed: the EoM's body was decaying while his mind remained powerful, but in my concept the mind was decaying while the body remained youthful. Of course, that entirely depends upon your point of view - if you're a heretic then the Emperor is a psychotic psychic despot before, during, and after his mortal reign. Another difference is that, even though the Emperor is revered as a god, there doesn't appear to be any actual evidence that he exists after his death.
There are so many story ideas in the comments and I am living for them. They’re so interesting!
@@leonielson7138 But the big E hasn't died, of course there's no evidence of Godhood after his death... if he hasn't died.
Welcome! Welcome to City 17! You have chosen, or been chosen, to relocate to one of our finest remaining urban centers. I thought so much of City 17 that I elected to establish my administration here, in the Citadel so thoughtfully provided by our benefactors. I've been proud to call City 17 my home. And so, whether you are here to stay, or passing through on your way to parts unknown - welcome to City 17. It's safer here.
Sounds like Alpha Sector in _Paranoia_
Sounds like Autodale, kind of.
Sounds like City 17 FROM HALF LIFE
EXACTLY what I thought
Noce.
Does the Lorax count as the “who need trees” dystopia
Yep
thats what it was supposed to be
When I heard the description of a dystopia I just kept thinking “huh, that sounds like North Korea”. Then I was like... “oh right, North Korea IS a dystopia!”
in my opinion china also sounds like it's in the process of becoming a dystopia, with all of it's censorship. and it happens to not just be a small corner of the world like north korea, too
@@kirtil5177 I agree with this, not to mention all the concentration camps that they have now
So is America at this point
@@nmraven-gx9gt America is also, arguably, why communist regimes such as in the USSR, Cuba, China, even arguably North Korea etc. ended up taking varyingly unpleasant measures with their directions. They saw all the communists who place nice getting killed, couped, sabotaged, embargoed, etc. and did what they felt they had to do to not be eradicated but the extremely hostile capitalist powers. You either be a Castro or end up an Allende, the former in this example and allegory oftentimes not being half as terrible as capitalist propaganda smears them as (with some exceptions of course). Of course, some persevere without resorting to various levels of so-called "authoritarianism," such as Vietnam or Bolivia, but these often persist unstained in spite of their circumstances than anything else.
@@kirtil5177 china is a fascist state.
"And then there were no sequels"
Yeah, it really was a shame the series ended like that
This, more than anything, spoke to me. It gave me hope in a dark time.
What about the animatrix? Or was that more of a spin-off?
in that precise moment I hit "like"
A few decent fixes I've found:
1: There were plenty of revolutions in the past. They all fell into the same malaise of corruption and were supplanted by another - the hero isn't the first ajd certainly won't be the last in the vicious cycle of destruction that will only end with THE end. As in nukes.
2: The hero was playing to the government's fiddle all along. Gathering so many like-minded people just made removing the threat easier.
3: The hero was the villain all along and just wants ultimate power.
4: The revolution ultimately achieves nothing beyond a massive body count and sinks into bickering and internal politics, slowly picked apart from the inside by the government they sought to overthrow wgo had twisted events to portray the rebellion as violent psychopaths to be hunted down for everyone's sake.
5: Aliens.
A twist that occurs to me: The oppressive government's claims that an alien force they're at war with justifies all this? They're right. Without the government, the war rapidly goes badly and said aliens proceed to get on with the exterminating. If you've got a trilogy, this would be book 2, with some solution coming in to let book 3 end well. (Or you know, not.)
*A L I E N S*
That first two sounds like the Matrix sequels, sort of
6: Luck. The Dystopia has some weak point or another that an opportunistic hero manages to hit, causing the entire thing to be weakened to the point where outright civil war might become possible.
@@Sorain1 God, no. Do you have any idea what kind of themes that would push? "Oh no, the conspiracy theorists and racists were right all along, these invading aliens *are* a threat, we should've listened to them!" Blegh, that sounds like a story that only the GOP's book club would enjoy (or well, it would sound like that if they had enough intelligence to read)
One thing that I think that the Hunger Games movies gloss over compared to the books is just how broken Katniss and Peeta were at the end of it all. They were completely mentally destroyed. The dystopia and the fight against it still completely wrecked their minds. Yes, they have begun to heal, but even on the last page Katniss opines about how the nightmares will never really go away and it will affect her and how she raises her children forever.
My grandfather was imprison during the military dictatorships in Brazil for owning forbidden books. Very real for me.
The biggest flaw with many recent dystopian (especially YA) novels is that they don’t necessarily present a dystopia world. What makes 1984 and Black Mirror so terrifying is that they reveal the inhuman sides of not only the government, but also society that makes people helpless to fight back. Reading the section where Winston was totrtured into a living shell by the Party and the protagonists being trap by the technology that influences the people invoke the fear and helplessness. They are cautionary tale that warn a society might be heading this path or has already happen. Oceania tells a story under a tolitarian society which North Korea is very reminiscent, Gilard that oppesses women under an extreme theocratic rule which ISIS and the Taliban attempts to impose - all of them share one commonality and that there wasn’t a single rebel who was successful in overthrowing an oppressive government. That is what truly a dystopia is. It is the helplessness and powerlessness that prevent one person from overcoming a government and especially a society.
that is because dysopias of that level are more unrealistic. North korea itself is some profane version of a miracle that it has not imploded into itself already. It has been drip fed life from china and from using criminal contacts. Gettiing help from the outside. But eventually there will be too many hungry people and they will jsut explode in a seething zombie horde like mass. Then you will have internal coups happening cause they will ahve the advantage to overthrow everyone by simply pointing as Kim jung un and saying 'he tastes like pork'
if north korea was truly cut off its death would be swift, brutal, and tragic for the people living there.
The Handmaid's Tale was a thinly veiled depiction of modern Iran according to the Author in Multiple interviews. Basically she wanted to show the west how terrible the theocratic government there was by making it more familiar to them, like a what if it was happening here scenario.
Iran, what one references to avoid naming Pence
To be fair, a dystopia inspired by the events of the Iranian revolution would be terrifyingly interesting. Imagine risking the life and safety of yourself and your family to bring down an oppressive regime, only to find yourself manipulated into accepting an even worse one, and being sent to the front because your neighbors just invaded your country taking advantage of the chaos you helped creating. It must have been such a terrible, soul crashing experience.
@@theredale5070 Or the French Revolution.
@@runningcommentary2125 they are wildly different, but yes, it would be interesting. The French Revolution is less suited to be the base of a dystopia imo.
@@theredale5070 Not really. Robespierre with modern technology would have filled France with mass graves.
Once again, I have to mention Psycho Pass (very slight spoilers)
The Villain is actually the one defying the dystopia while trying to get the main characters to recognise the dystopia and fight against it aswell.
And one of the main characters is in kind of a moral grey zone, regarding the dystopia as a necessary evil that one should be able to defy on his/her own will but does help in the bigger picture.
The other main character is actually just a cog in the machine, slowly waking up and making up her own mind about the world she lives in.
It's quite relevant since the dystopia came about because of the prevalence of artificial intelligence and the villain is kind of a villainous character put in the usual hero's underdog role
I like psychopass because while still a dystopia in many ways the world it presents is also generally better than the one we have now and the rulers want to improve themselves and help the people as seen in the season 2 finale.
@Saumya Kulp He is definitely a villain. Because rather than being a rebel, he is a terrorists. You May be fighting a dystopia goverment, but this doesn't give you any right to even slightly touch civilians.
In this case calling the system a Dystopia is... Only 99% correct, I would say.
The Psycho-Pass is a system that recognizes who Is in the mental condition to be a criminal. Basically, It permits a society where criminals either hide or are taken to a check up that makes them return normal even IF they haven't done shit. It's not about your crime, It's about the possibility to commit a crime. Some people are considered "too much" and are kept jailed forever. Some of them can work in the police tho, under control of sane people (which is relevant because TL;DR most policemen turn into "possible criminals"). And this system isn't based on pure perfect science as people think, but on something else that is completely spoiler.
So yeah, the system is flawed and not truly perfect. It also makes people unable to understand crime and therefore unable to take action by themselves. It does negate humanw rights to some and uses drugs and propaganda to keep society in check... BUT people live decently. Even good. You are not forced to give up your feelings, your happiness or whatever. It's totslly a dystopia, but it's one that works truly for its citizens, not for an elite or bad people in Power.
@@Hyperversum3 The thing is tho, the system is not actually an artificial intelligence, but just the combine brain power crazy yet genius level criminal. So it is basically a system of criminals recognizing who is the future criminal. Even though the antagonist is a terrorist that harm countless the system don't want to get rid of him, instead it want him to be integrated with them.
@@yansakuya1 they aren't necessarily criminals - they're just unclassifiable by the system.
Isn't it sort of like Utopia
"Drugs to be happy"
Isn't that basically the game "We Happy Few" ?
Aye.
Yes, with an interesting reason for why that became the policy. (Which is also one of the few gems in that mess.)
We happy few copied a bunch of older dystopias like the movie THX 1138.
Also real life?
R3GARnator I wouldn’t call it copying but instead taking inspiration and attempting to make more people aware of valuable and interesting works.
One of my favorite dystopias is The Giver. LOVE the society and the characters.
It was great but reading it as a kid was kinda awkward. Considering the dirty dream Jonas had...
*we had to read it as a unit in 8th grade and holy shit*
I was searching for this comment
Totally agree. I love how it isn't opressive, it's just that a utopia would need to prevent emotion, and that is a dystopia. So logically, any utopia is a dystopia.
I didn’t like it. (Spoilers)
It’s a pretty generic utopia, which I find boring. Oh, everybody’s extremely suspiciously happy, don’t question the whole vague plot point where people straight up vanish, and something-something moral about why emotions are so great. Utopias always work this way: everyone’s happy, but there’s a horrible secret hiding underneath and thus we should destroy it. I predicted that Release was just killing people before Jonas gets hooked up with the Giver, and waddya know. It even draws on bits and pieces of general assholery associated with oppression or just dumb mistakes through ‘if you’re not the same, you die.’ The book treats this reveal as something incredible, and sure, I bet it is for Jonas. But it’s just so...boring.
If you're ever having trouble getting through a story in a dystopia, I highly recommend you take notes to grade the ruling government on their overall level of competence and sanity. It can make a lot of otherwise boring books a lot more engaging to read.
Better yet, grade the government using the evil overlord list www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
This is a good idea. I've heard people say that leaning about story telling takes them out of the narrative, but I like being an active audience rather than a passive one
The whole reason you don't see a lot of competent dystopias in modern fiction is partly because modern audiences want to see the good guys win, and unless the leaders of the dystopia are complete idiots, they'll be able to ferret out, and crush any sign of resistance like in 1984.
Well that and a surplus of hack writers who don't bother putting much thought into background and world building.
Modern dystopia's usually have governments that make no sense and can't possibly survive.
It wasn't me but I saw who made this request. Good job dude.
william andrian last vid by red or the one before. Definitely recent.
I don't know if I was the first one to suggest it or not but I did suggest a few videos back and I am so happy.
TyphoonZebra now THAT is a really cool icon
I did tweet it a few months ago but I couldn't have been the first to suggest it.
I JUST SAW YOU ON MOTHERS BASEMENT MAN!
My favorite dystopia is Animal Farm. Even though it is about the Soviet Union, it was written to display the silent takeover by tyranny, and what it looks like. That book is great.
"Books burned by the government" Ahem, In Fahrenheit 451 the order to burn all books on sight was not a demand from on high but rather at the request of the people, Fahrenheit 451 according to Bradbury was not a story about the government as a ruling class keeping society ignorant but rather a story abut the ignorant masses preventing the exceptional from becoming educated and making them feel dumb by comparison and how a lack of education leads to mindless hedonism and a loss of vital knowledge when it's needed most .. So it's less like 1984 and a bit more like Atlas Shrugged (At least the parts that aren't just Bradbury complaining about new media).
Oh god, well now I know to avoid it so I guess that's good.
@@hedgehog3180 Regardless of how you feel about Atlas Shrugged (I, personally, am not very fond of it), Fahrenheit 451 is worth reading. It's a stylistically different and far more concise work with an objectively valuable message.
Fahrenheit 451 was a hot mess to me. Granted, I was 12 and in 7th grade at the time, but I just remember being highly confused and finding the story foggy and hard to read. There was an epithet at the back of the book that said the story was a first draft and 7th-grade me was like "EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE NOW! NO WONDER IT WAS CONFUSING HE NEVER EDITED IT!"
hedgehog3180
why though?
Yeah, he’s said it had nothing to do with censorship and was just about how people watch too much tv.
My favorite view of a Dystopian society is the Warhammer 40K universe, where everything has fallen apart, humanity is under siege from within, without, and beyond, and the only thing that is keeping humanity together and surviving is the brutal Imperium government and it's state mandated worship of the God-Emperor. It's a dystopia, but it's also humanities only hope for a better tomorrow, and what can be more soul crushing than that?
I think you actually got the completely wrong interpretation from 40K. It even serves the better version of the world right there for you on a platter. Before the warp storms humanity was living in a galactic utopia. The fact that the Imperium has basically forbidden innovation is obviously hurting them and biting them in the ass, and is also in conflict with the wishes of the GEoM. The Imperium is almost hilariously incompetent since without the benevolent dictator that was the emperor ruling it has turned into a corrupt fascist mess that can barely even keep itself together. I mean the emperor was trying to recreate the golden age of humanity, it was not his intention to create this but things fucked up and it happened.
I respectfully disagree, the golden age of humanity did see a utopia emerge, but it also set them up for failure. The optimism of the era blinded humanity to the potential danger of psykers as they began to emerge, and while the uprising of the Men of Iron doesn't get much detail, what we do know implies a society that had grown too dependent upon technology, and the resulting war scarred humanity so badly, that now artificial intelligence is forbidden. Compounded to the fact that humanity during the golden age had thought of their xenos neighbors as friends. But when humanity's golden age came to an end, they xenos turned on their friends, either killing or enslaving them. There is a method to the Imperium's madness, and it came from some very harsh lessons that their ancestors had to learn. As for the technology issue, the war against the men of iron, age of strife, and adeptus mechanicus civil war during the Horus Heresy destroyed most of the Mechanicus knowledge, they are literally using scraps of books from a bombed out library, trying to piece things back together, hence their stance on technology and their quest to find the SCT's, they're terrified of losing what little they have left, the last bits of the wisdom of the ancients. As for the Imperium, the Horus Heresy series is dropping some big hints, that this is what the Emperor planned all along, a rebellion and his enthronement, along with the rise of a cult worshiping him. Instead of things going to hell, the Imperium as it is was planned from the very beginning, as a major step on the Emperor's and Malcadors master plan to defeat chaos and ensure human dominance of the galaxy. The dude was a master manipulator who cares for humanity as a whole, but not most humans, as Guilliman discovered, to the Emperor the Primarchs were absolutely nothing more than tools.
Robert Claus That is just Bullshit. The only reason it failed was because of the Eye of terror and the influence of Chaos rather than Shortcomings. Also optimism is the most vital force for progress and without it, we would be stuck in the stone ages.
Besides WH is pulp fiction and makes no sense, it's just dumb and ignores core aspects of Human progress like Education.
@@basilofgoodwishes4138
Read more of it, it stays internally consistent most of the time (there's some hated authors retconning major elements or ignoring them)
Drop the high and mighty act, most of humanity is "retarded" for WH there's plenty reason for the lack of education besides the planetary autonomy, spread colonies etc. etc. Chaos is a threat made worse only by the Eldar who kindly murder fucked a new god into existence and opened the Eye of Terror. To ignore human nature (Khorne and Slaanesh alone!) and proclaim educating the commoners on Chaos is simply stupid. The biggest mistake was the lack of education on Chaos for the Primarchs and even then Magnus knew the dangers when Tzeench tricked Horus by showing him the future he would create trying to prevent it from happening
It's hard to be optimistic when even changing or not changing your underwear feeds the Chaos gods and a swarm of intergalactic ultra-predators are coming to devour the galaxy who might be running from something even more terrifying then them. Literal demons, Chaos worshippers and Alien races some of who'm were created as an "indestructible" weapon of sentient fungus
WH makes sense even it's "magic" is one of the best systems in fiction as it's limits are defined
WH40k is all soul-crushing and no-hope-for-tomorrow and whatnot, but the end result isn't a dystopia in the traditional sense. It's a world designed to squeeze the maximum amount of concentrated awesome out of it.
I remember hearing one of my highschool english teachers say this:
"Someone's utopia is someone else's distopia"
In a lot of cases utopias are actually distopias that look perfect on the surface. Just because a society is a haven for technical advancements, doesnt mean that it is perfect. Because a utopia is essentially an impossible ideal. For something like that to work everyone would have to be satisfied with what they have, their role in life, etc. However, people always want to improve on their lives and have nice things. There is nothing particularly wrong with wanting nice things untill greed is involved. So really a utopia is only a utopia to the people it benefits. Rapture from the Bioshock series comes to my mind. Rapture before it fell was inveritable paradise if you were not poor and were either really smart, had ambition or were generally the best at a certain skill or trade, but obviously not everyone in Rapture had those qualities. There was also the explotation of small children for the sake of sciencey magic powers where the substance use to give everyone those powers becomes jack shit insane.
Shinsekai yori anyone? Imho, it made it just perfect. Semi-utopia, that is slowly turning to a complete distopia with a pretty face as you keep learning more about the world.
THE GIVER*COUGH**COUGH*
@@АннаЛиберт-ь1й Hell yeah! I'm so glad to see someone else who've watched it. It doesn't get enough recognition. Easily the most interesting, chilling, complex, intelligent anime I've ever see (maybe together with Psycho-Pass). The beginning seems like such a perfect world, full of sunshine, everyone is friendly and happy and safe... And then you learn more and start to realize how rotten their society actually is. Don't know about you, but I had that underlying sense of dread ever since the copy-cats were first mentioned. And when Maria and Mamoru left, I could practically feel the grief that Saki experienced.
Dorothea is that you
@@cowgirltheworld .....maybe
The maze runner isn't really a dystopia as much as it's post apocolyptic. It isn't really a battle royale either.
Toad Taylor i dont know if its just me but the goverment doesn't feel like cthulhu to me
I was mentioned
WICKED kind of feels like a dystopian government, but yeah, it's far more post-apocalypse than dystopian
It is less dystopian and more post apocalyptic, but The Maze Runner is definitely a battle Royale. So is The Scorch Trials, but less in movie than the book.
Toad Taylor I’ve asked this before. What is the difference between post apocalyptic and dystopian?
Hello Future Me and Overly Sarcastic, two of my favourite channels, I’m hyped!
Cbat 1612 same
Me too
One of the reasons I feel Hunger Games is more successful than a lot of its copycats is that Katniss is explicitly a figurehead. Like, the first book, she’s just a desperate kid trying to survive. All her “rebellious acts” is either pragmatism to survive on her part (teaming up with Peeta and playing up her relationship with him to win sponsors, even if it does become actual feelings by the end of the series, the berries so both she and Peeta could survive) or kindness (covering Rue in flowers and genuinely mourning her.)
Catching Fire, she’s still pragmatic, and she realizes the danger she’s in. She and Peeta are still playing up the relationship, and she’s on a press tour to placate the masses. She’s aware that the 74th games have changed something, but we only get hints of an organized actual rebellion until the end. Cinna turns her wedding dress into a literal propaganda piece without her knowledge. Most of her tribute alliance in the 75th games is aware of and part of the rebellion, with the exception of her and Peeta.
Even in the last book, where Katniss is actively involved in the rebellion, she’s a propaganda figure, not a front line fighter. We see her lead a rebel squad once and it ends terribly. She’s absolutely riddled with PTSD, cause she’s a teenage girl who’s been through unimaginable trauma. Killing President Coin is the most genuine rebellion she does during the story, and it’s purposefully against her role as Coin’s figurehead, not the oppressive government that’s been the focus for the last three books. And her ending isn’t to help usher in the new age and care about her people. She settles down with Peeta and has kids, nothing to do with the government, and the epilogue still makes it clear that both she and Peeta are still profoundly psychologically damaged by the end of the story, but have managed to find some measure of peace in their family and remembering the people they lost.
Compare this to my personal least favorite book from this general era of fiction, Divergent. Tris has to be explicitly told “you’re special, the government will kill you, you have to either keep your head down or fight back.” And what is this extreme difference? Having more than one personality trait. And being aware when you hallucinate. And yes, i know they tried to justify with the whole “Being Divergent is super special cause of weird gene editing”, but it’s stupid. And before the plot of the book, the society isn’t even that bad. Until the lady from the smart faction decides to make the brave faction her personal army, the world isn’t a dystopia, it just kinda sucks. Does it suck you have to pick a personality trait or be a homeless person? Sure. But is it dystopic? No, it’s really not that different than picking a career and being stuck with that your whole life. They tell us the government is bad because they killed Tori’s brother and Four’s mentor and a bunch of other people, but sike! We find out in the last book the didn’t actually die, they were just outside the fence! And we don’t really get a resolution to the government collapse at the end. Tris dies and everyone’s just allowed to do whatever they want. Her love interest hooks up with the best friend character, and seeing how the majority of Divergent focused more on the romantic subplot than the dystopia, it’s kind of a slap in the face for readers to see him be sad for a couple chapters then move on.
Anyway, main point: Hunger Games keeps in mind how realistic a rebellion would be and why people would rebel against this dystopia, and actually cares about the impact of the dystopia, Divergent just wanted a cool rebellion power fantasy.
Hunger Games (or at least the first two books) holds up because Katniss starts out as a genuinely tough pragmatist who is fighting to overthrow a believably evil dystopian government that exerts control through a twisted combination of dramatized reality TV and child murder. What caused a lot of people to check out was because as time went on, most of the narrative was spent on wondering which cute boy Katniss was going to kiss.
Divergent, on the other hand, is a bunch of hot nonsense.
@@ManiaMac1613 did you actually read the third book? Most of it is Katniss suffering from PTSD. The love triangle is more a symbol of what Katniss wants to be after the war. Peeta represents softness and comfort, Gale represents being a warrior and a survivor. And after everything she goes through, she can’t be with Gale, cause she’s too broken to fight and kill anymore.
@Leanne Chambers It’s been a whole-ass decade since I read those books, I truthfully don't remember the third book all that well. I also didn't watch the final movie because I'd kinda checked out of the story already.
OSP: *Describes dystopia
Me: "Aren't most dystopias gradual, they stealth up and twist the system into a cage throught gradudual policy change before people realize it's too late? (Like the prequels)"
*looks out window
"oh..."
Its alaways in motion. Power corrupts.
I actually liked the prequals for that! They dealt with a complex topic and brought actual world building, where the original trilogy was kinda shallow.
@@faultier1158 agree so much!
That’s where the relatable dread comes in
HFM: "This involves relying on everyone's favorite dystopian callback, the Nazis. But relying on allusions to them to establish the horribleness of your society can lead to a stale and unoriginal story".
Me: Huh, kinda like the First Order in Star Wars
HFM: Proceeds to show the scene in Star Wars where the First Order gives the Nazi salute.
Justafan IV the empire was also kind of a Nazi reference. They just never did the salute or had Hitlerey speeches shown on screen
Except star wars isnt playing up dystopia. Its playing up old space operas and golden age films that were far from dystopian and much more optimistic
In the time of the original trilogy, you didn't have to show it outright because the Nazi's were still relatively recent; if today WW2 was just as long ago as back then, it would've ended it 1986. You see that a lot with allusions to Nazi's in that period; it always was more subtle, but it was just as clear back then as the outright Nazi salute right now.
Also the prequels were a pretty clear metaphor to the Nazi's rising to power, by abusing democratic institutions. It was never ambiguous, it only is when you watch it from the perspective of now. Which in itself is pretty terrifying; we're slowly forgetting how the Nazi regime came to be so comparisons have to be really on the nose.
The Empire was definitely Nazis, the First Order is most definitely Neo-Nazis.
Justafan IV here's an entire video about it
"President Snow, the Capitol, and his merry band of hairdos"
The Templin Institute called them "Snow and his fellow Upper-Class Twits" in their video bout "The Most Inept Dystopian Government".
I swear to god you guys must make a discord so writers, history and mythology buffs can hang out, who agrees with my suggestion?
Seconded!
third-ed EDIT: err....fourth-ed?
I agree too.
fifthed!
But history makes Red get hives remember.
I'd have loved for you guys to mention stuff like gattaca .
it's a dystopia that does let the protagonist go against the system and not simply be crushed but still leaves the dystopia in tact. because the protagonist isn't overthrowing the dystopia for the greater good but instead the story is about cheating your way through a dystopia. trying to get to the privileged class.
as such, it exposes the characters to more different situations thus giving them more deph.
" cheating a dystopia" & " rebelling for only oneself without changing the system" would have been really interesting for you guys to talk about. these kind of stories set themselves apart by being inherently character driven. the challenges are made by the dystopia and a the dystopia is never overthrown but just cheated with luck and skill and determination in a very small way, making the dystopia still terrifying while showing a glimmer of hope and letting the protagonist succeed ( at least partly) but at a huge cost or unsustainable.
gattaca is the best example I could thing of off the top of my head but there are various ones like that.
Ahh Gattaca is one of my favorite movies just cause of how it’s done I’m really happy that more people know it!
Great movie, ruined for me by Biology class
@@jacobbabson6786 Ayy ur Bio teacher had u watch it, too?
Adam Weinberg yup
@@jacobbabson6786 I've watched that movie in 3 separate biology classes. Never again.
"...and then there were no sequels. Bummer, right?"
Legit had flavored carbonated water come out of my nose.
Red, will you ever consider do a video on The Arabian Nights. I think it would be really interesting and you could even collaborate with Blue if you wanted to explain the historical context.
Henry Anderson oh I hope so that’s one of my set readings for uni this year🙃
Dystopia in literature nowadays, AKA, the genre of "I want to have an all-adolescent cast of protagonists so that YA readers will feel empowered and smart, like they are the future and humanity's only hope", but in actuality, they're always written like real-life, idiotic adolescents.
@Johnny Cage This is what we call wish fulfillment. The idea you could wake up and suddenly be epic and have magic, power, fame, etc. Harry Potter is 100% an example. I don't think it's bad, but those kind of stories aren't my favorite.
@Johnny Cage It's almost pathetic, really.
@Super Greyflash I just want to add that I have nothing against being cool, or having cool characters. I'm against giving them cool powers without them even trying.
Except when you base it off of you and your friends :)
@@Error-gz3pp I don't think nearly enough YA novels take inspiration for their characters from real people. If that were true, they would be more relatable, more insecure, and more understandable. But YA novels I read are always about a wonder child who has only upstanding qualities, followed by a few other schmucks who have like one trait each.
I want a combination story of the depressing POV and modern dystopia, and the story ends with the main charcter and his rebellion overthrowing the government, only for him to become the ruler and not even fix the dystopia, posibly even making it worse. Then you have a sequel where his son or something learns about his story and when given the chance to overthrow the government for good or become the ruler, he chooses the good option this time and there you go a two part story for double the cash
Yes! It finally happened!
So...this isn't a video featuring two Reds?
Oh well. CROSSOVER! ADVEEENTURRRE
Inquisitor White ADVENTURE!
I am never sure how 1 single teenager is ever able to topple their entire society in their YA dystopia.
Plot armor or out of nowhere superpowers.
Whoop! Entertainment and writing advice at once from two people I belled! Day officially made!
A 23 minute trope talk? Today is a good day.
There was this one series I read when I was little called the among the hidden series. It was a distopion world where after many droughts and food shortages having 3 children was outlawed and most people expect the top of the top were barely scraping by. It had 7 books and would jump perspectives between multiple 3rd children becoming a part of and fighting in a rebellion. But instead of it just being kids leading a generic rebellion they made it into, what would be closer to, a realistic rebellion. It had been going on for years with thousands of others working on it. The kids weren't the main magical protagonist force but just had enough stubbornness to keep going. And instead of just having a neat little ending, it was messy. With a huge power gap left corrupted people took the credit, took control *again.*
Honestly it was such a good series and even now that I'm older I reccomend it.
Bro some kids in my class read that for lit circles. I thought it was super interesting but it was the shortest book (meant for the kids who don't like to read) so I got put into the Maximum Ride group. That brought back memories
Can you tell me the name of the series?
@@jaiadlakha212 It was Hidden Children I believe!
@@samw3720 thank you I'll check it out
@Jai Adlakha the name of the series is shadow children
and they said that Infinity War was the most ambitious crossover of our time,,,
Just imagine child Deku watching All Might... that’s me right now
PhantomGamer28 adorable
PhantomGamer28 me to
Me too
Has anyone tried having the dystopian regime fall after some disaster weakened the regime, possibly motivating the protagonist?
Oooh, and if you made it a theocracy, it could be the lack of natural disasters which is the basis of the government's legitimacy!
OOH! NOW I HAVE TO WRITE A STORY ABOUT A DYSTOPIA TAKEN DOWN BY A VOLCANIC ERUPTION! Also, so much historical stuff to allude to there (cough dutch east indies cough)
That would be really cool, and 100% believable since even good empires have fallen as a result of natural disasters
Yesss yesss tear into all the poorly written Hunger Games clone series goooooood
*rubs hands together*
Cellochicita
The Hunger Games itself is bad...
Zakaria but the clones are so much worse and one tenth of the thought put into them
Cellochicita
I agree.
What clones series?
WiseWillow series that try to replicate the success of hunger games by stripping the story down to the barest of bones and the romance and forget to actually write a good plot with it
Usually featuring a female protagonist with an overly dramatic name like Violet Lasting or America Singer
Dystopia, noun:
A place in which OSP videos don’t exist.
*Damn, there is no interesting TH-cam Content in this dystopia.*
Nick Boss yep
Dystopia noun:
A place where Fortnite is the dommaint thing found on TH-cam.
~I once watched a few fortnite videos because I work at a daycare and I need to releate to the kids. Now my recommendations are flooded with them.
Red: *Describes a dystopia*
Me: *Looks at every country in the world*
Oh….
Marvel:- Infinty War is the most Ambitious crossover in history
Me:- Trope Talk FT. Hello Future Me
Hey guys! I just want to mention the mistborn series, the first book is a very dystopian story and they do the standard save the people and take over new rule, but the next two books address all those problems that comes after
oh really? I have the trilogy, I may actually read it
Oh my God you talking about the giver finally made me remember the name of the book which I've been looking for nearly 8 years now. Nobody knew what book I was talking about but I remembered very loose ideas I thought were cool that I could maybe use for my own stories but I never could fully remember, I'm so happy now that I can read it again ;-;
In regards to eliminating pain, remember if your body part suddenly stops feeling pain. That can mean it’s dead.
And this is why I always recommend "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin, the guy who wrote The Stepford Wives and Rosemary's Baby. Easily one of the best dystopias I've ever read and the ending is wild af.
The Giver is my favorite Dystopia book.
I love it to the point where I dont read it for such a long time I forget most of the story so I can re-read it again with as much of the original joy I got when I first read it.
This is why I love Hunger Games so much, because Katniss isn’t a choosen one, she’s a puppet for snow’s regime and then for coin’s. The story is about a journey to personhood and a story on the fall of paneme
Nani?! A guest feature?!
Let's riot!!
Hunger Games was a really good dystopia showing the monetization of the suffering of the less fortunate, even down to how Katniss didn't see Peeta as a perfect love interest but more of a way to stay alive and use the love team pov the audience had as leverage for her means. It just gets a very bad rep as it's what started the boom in poor dystopias where romantic subplots outweighed the main plot
You just summarized Plato's republic, the first dystopia, told in deadly earnest.
I'm not sure Plato's Republic was intended as a dystopia (but I'm not sure that it wasn't either)
@@jeffbenton6183 I agree it wasn't the intent, but Plato would be labeled a totalitarian today based on his views. My point was more to show that the divergent series of novels, maze runner, and even hunger games to an extent had a common and chilling template
@@jeffmcginn1029 Fair enough. The society Socrates describes is eerily similar to Brave New World - only, without all the sex and drugs...
It is a dystopia, but I think it's a little more self-aware than that. There's a moment when he talks about how easy it'll be to establish, and the first thing he says "the first thing we'll have to do is banish everyone over 10 years old from the city," which I think is quite clearly a joke. The point of the book is about the ideal human soul, and defining justice after all, rather than mainly about politics. And there's a bit of a tradition of ironically pointing out how Utopias don't really exist in Utopian fiction (More's Utopia does it as well.) Basically, the Republic's less evil than just weird.
I got a trope you can talk about: Post-Apocolyptic worlds and/or Societys.
...this needs to happen...
What about the Evil Empires video
Ooh; I would love to see that, especially since these days, dystopias and post-apocalyptic stories tend to get lumped together when they don't have to be. Wind Waker is a great example of a post-apocalyptic world that isn't a dystopia. It also happens to be my favourite post-apocalypse story of all time.
TFW you realized once again how dark legend of zelda can be
Joy Ramirez Evil empires can exsist almostn anywhere.
I was waiting for one of them to mention the giver. I love that book. The whole series is great, but giver and Gathering blue are my favorites.
It kinda does one massive genre pivot by the end.
Messenger is by far my favorite. I spent forty minutes in a video talking about that book alone. Good stuff
I’m ashamed. There was no reference to the Lego Movie. I think THAT dystopian story was great
The Complicated Life Yeah, 99% of the Movie is them losing, getting away, losing again, only for the last 1% to be them winning, only to have a new threat show up. 😂
One thing that's really funny about the LEGO movie is that it actually wasn't that well received in Denmark. I think it's because while it's exceptional in the US, in Denmark it's not really that special considering we've been creating children's media that has been handling these topics way deeper for a long time.
Why couldn’t I have watched this before my English assessment where I had to write an introduction to a dystopian text.
Am I the only one who is reminded by the “not the bees” scene from the wicker man by the rat torture in 1984?
Thanks for introducing me to hello future me. My favorite writing channels have finally come together.
I’d love to see a dystopian story where the POV’s rebellion fails miserably and he’s forced to see the corpses of all the past rebellions before being added to that pile
you've just given me an idea for something to write
Good, but even better: Kill everyone the POV ever loved. Break his spirit. Then just...let him go with enough survivors guilt to last a lifetime.
@@capybaraandwatermelonenjoy8208 Poor [JOE GENERIC]
@@skem9622 omg thank you for commenting on this a year late you reminded me to write this i had completely forgot
@@capybaraandwatermelonenjoy8208 Have you done it??
Red: (lists the hallmarks of dystopias)
Me, rewatching this video in 2020 America: (sweating and hyperventilating)
@Johnny Cage I mean, if you're part of one or more of the minorities, then it is really dangerous. I should know.
*OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDD*
*anxiety skyrockets*
Which side?
@@mattevans4377 yes
❤️❤️Always awesome with new uploads! And Red!😊
Terrible Writing Advice called. He wants his dystopic ever-pervasive love triangle back.
*Yells from the back next to Lucicer* DO A COLLAB!!!
"Dystopias are fictional societies that have these characteristics..."
[me, living in the US, seeing these same characteristics]
Hey, hey. How are you doing?
I'm in danger.
Things have only gotten worse.
@@mccookies3664
Mmmmmmyeah.
Johnny Cage
Historical prosperity, standards of living, and abundance of food of which very few people can fully benefit from.
Dredd (2012) is one of my absolute favorite dystopian films. It's so damn good, and often subtle, while also being _incredibly underrated and unknown_ !
The Idea of consolidating urban sprawl into super towers is an idea that would save a lot of space and allow much of it to be converted to farmland/natural space.
+Daegan Noel
True. Not to mention that it doesn't need to look so bleak, or be so enclosed.
I remember when I was quite young, my family lived in a huge townhouse+apartment complex, where the buildings formed a massive, and delightfully blue colored, walled rectangle, and there were multiple hallways that would lead to the outer perimeter, which consisted of a two-laned road.
One part of the interior had a great swimming pool, with a 2-story recreation center right next to it, and the rest of the interior was _filled_ with all sorts of trees and waist-high hedges that would form pathways. It was always beautiful and calming there, because the greenery paired so perfectly with all the blue buildings, creating what felt like a cozy, sheltered area, that was great for playing "Cowboys and Indians" with our water guns.
Incidentally, I'm aware that New York has a place called River Park Towers that strongly resemble a megacity block, in both appearance and history... don't think I'd like to live there, haha!
I might suggest that this is a conversation about "archology" tech'... AND no, it does NOT have to be so bleak or confining.
The question to resolve first is "Scale"... AND to avoid overtly confining residents, that scale should be BIG... like really BIG... BIGGER THAN THAT, even...
If we can get that part engineered, the rest will be about proportionate space and scheduling allocations... We (humans) still need jobs to do, something activity-wise to feel laboriously useful and contributive, BUT we also need leisure... time to contemplate, decompress, and the ample opportunity to let important issues slide a bit and remember to be fanciful and silly from time to time... SO spacial allocations and scheduling (with flexibility) would be required for those kinds of purposes as much as anything else, including self-improvement, professional efforts, etc...
To really get efficiency out of it, engineers will have to start ALL over again about how we examine and thereby structurally design buildings and structures. Once you get something of a scale to be an archology, you're not going to want it to have to be replaced or rebuilt all at once. That sort of disrepair or maintenance disparity absolutely HAS GOT TO STOP... So thinking "modular construction" and renovation is probably the order of this kind of magnitude...
Implementation doesn't have to be an all-out revolution either. Take any sufficient set of current buildings with adequate structure, and work the engineering out to bridge the gaps and bring those separate structures together to become one mega-structure... In a sense, hybridizing designs and marrying the buildings themselves together... The internal negative spaces can then be utilized for a variety of reasonable purposes, including additional living spaces, traffic areas (for say... electric vehicles on shorter ranges), storage for myriad purposes, even greenhousing platforms to counter "economic concentrations" and allow more access to fresher produce, even just herbs and spices (depending on the building's internal societal cultures)...
While I found Judge Dredd's Mega-plex ideals interesting (okay, fascinating)... AND I enjoyed further explorations of things like it through everything from RPG's to Sim-City games, I often found that there really wasn't a whole lot of explanation about why we couldn't (or wouldn't?) steadily implement modest engineering steps to improve little things, like traffic in "Downtown Areas" for people like messengers, delivery trucks and vans, and errand-people... or even just to do something about "lunch hour rush".
Maybe it would seem expensive, but since city-planning boards are such a pain in the ass about parking and traffic jams (a non-stop menace to social order) it would make some sense to move some of the traffic off the roads and up above them... right?
Just a thought. Don't put too serious an effort to it. That might be dangerous... (lolz) I do hope you picked up an inquisitive smirk and are thinking something like..."that could be cool"... That's all. ;o)
The brilliance of the movie is it convinces us to cheer for fascist heroes, which is at the core of Judge Dredd stories.
My favourite dystopian film is Brazil(1985), which features a bureaucratic dystopia in which a rebellion is referenced to, but never actually appears in the film. In fact the "rebellious" characters are just people illegally performing unsanctioned work to try and get stuff actually done. By the end of the story you're left wondering if the "rebellion" ever actually existed in the first place, and wasn't just the government creating a scapegoat for their own failures.
Tai Jarman sort of like 1984
Yeah thats a 1984 rip-off
My favorite dystopia is by far Autodale by Dead Sound. It’s an independent miniseries on TH-cam and it focuses primarily on world building, there are no main characters, and even almost no recurring characters, but it is so well done it is amazing!! From the graphic and animation choices to the writing , everything is just amazing! I love it so much!
Yeah, and you can see his art style and ideas evolving throughout it
Warhammer 40k is the Hold My Beer of Dystopias. It's multiple dystopias designed to all be unsolvable without an apocalypse or miracle. It would be too easy to keep consistent in it as a writer.
I would say that you're a fool if you think that they're unsolvable because at least with the Imperium it was very obviously not always like this and there is no reason why it can't go back to what it was like in the start. Or well there is, there is now an entrenched class with all the power that doesn't want that, but if you could get rid of them you could turn it into a pretty good place.
hedgehog3180 The Imperium was great at one point, but it’s been a dystopia for 10000 years. The populace is almost entirely uneducated and mostly spend their days working dangerous jobs so they don’t have to starve or serving as fodder for the Imperial Guard, the people keeping the Imperium shit are either just following orders from superiors with their heads up their asses, proffering from oppressing others or are filled with such zealous devotion that they legitimately think they’re doing a good thing. Not to mention the daily threats from aliens and daemons.
It only gets worse and it never stops
#Lorgardidnothingwrong
#Wearecomingbacktofinishthejobthistime
;)
If you think that is easy then you’re delusional.
Multiple dystopias also require intricate reasoning to ensure they stay that way.
There’s a balance of entropy and chaos to ensure either the lack of societal dystopia of chaos or The ordered dystopia of other races.
Tyranids and Orks don’t really have a society. They are more like animals actin on instinct.
The Tau and Imperium keep a repressive order on their citizenry to keep it unified because giving them freedoms would lead to obscene consequences because of the other influences out there.
You should do a trope talk on memory loss as a plot point
Sophie I think its impact and purpose varies wildly based on how early it's presented in the story. If the story starts with "I don't remember anything!" it gives the author an appropriate reason to present "trivial information" to the audience thru the protag. It's easy for the audience to connect with a protag that's just as uninformed about the world as they are.
In contrast, it's an interesting tool to use AFTER your story has already spent time building up its world and characters. Did 2 characters start out not trusting each other, but grew closer together thru shared hardships? Too bad, one of them has forgotten all that and has reverted back to their "I don't trust your kind" glory days. I'd almost call it a branch off the "character death" plot. The body is still here and alive, but the character we knew is gone. Obviously, this works best within a group setting as this will stress-test the group dynamics.
You both are without a doubt my favorite channels to watch on youtube. Thank you both for the fantastic, witty, and immensely helpful information.
I kinda want to write a dystopia where the problem isn't totalitarianism, but anarchy. Everyone has total freedom to do anything they can, even if it restricts the rights of others (say, by killing them). The world is divided between various organized settlements (usually short-lived mini-dystopias of various flavors) and chaotic no-mans-lands between. The protagonist would presumably get involved in an attempt to restore a civil government with the power and incentives to protect people's rights from other people.
...And that's all I got so far.
So basically The Purge except all the time
DO IT. I would read this book.
Timothy McLean, that's an interesting concept. I've seen a lot of post apocalyptic, zombie type stories focus on similar themes of anarchy, but I haven't actually seen something focused on restoring government. Perhaps it could use similar themes of the dystopian genre, such as people insisting that they live in a utopia, and certain groups pushing to keep things the same? Except inverted, in a sense.
Timothy McLean Go for it, it sounds very interesting!!!
Maybe have the story question "how many rules are too many?" or maybe people aren't happy with the idea of having a government because the government is what caused the beginning of this anarchic dystopia?
You should cover "Divine Intervention/Deus ex machina" next! I feel like you could really sum it up quite well, Red. In the most sarcastic way possible.
If you actually read the hunger games books, instead of just watching the movies, Katniss actually describes the form of government set up post-revolution as basically representative democracy (though she doesn’t use those terms) not unlike what we currently have, complete with actual elections and multiple candidates to choose from. She also brings up the question of “what next?” in the text before the revolution ends, while working with the rebels. She’s notably sceptical that a republic could work seeing as how badly the world ended up before, under this system.
The last time I was this early, dystopia novels were still good