Trope Talk: Plot Twists
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- 🚨WARNING! THIS VIDEO CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR:🚨
-Game of Thrones (ALL SEASONS)
-Steven Universe (SEASON 5)
-Spider-Man: Homecoming
-Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse
-Terminator 2: Judgment Day
-Avengers: Age of Ultron
-Captain America: Civil War
-Avengers: Endgame
IF FOR SOME REASON YOU'RE AVOIDING SPOILERS FOR THESE, THIS VIDEO WILL MANIFEST SNAKES IN YOUR HOME
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*Red explaining what Quicksilver's potential was in the MCU*
Me: ...Shit that's good.
agreed
an issue i had with endgame actually could have been fixed with him there
spoiler:
the scene where hawk eye and black widow fight over who gets to toss themselves off the cliff for the soul stone. I got the general feeling of the fight (clint would give anything to bring his family back and protect his best friend, natasha had less to lose and cared about clint seeing his family again) but it didnt impact me the way it was supposed to, partly cus i saw the result coming a mile away. honestly the ridiculousness of 2 people fighting over who gets to be the martyr actually made me crack up a little (I was literally smiling and holding in chuckles) and i had been wishing since for some third hero to be there too and just yell "NO meeeeeee..." and steal the bullet from them. quick silver would have been perfect for this tho he would have made this way more impactful if things had gone as red had said.
They should hire her to write the next movies lmao. She did an awesome job there.
call AHH, we got a good one.
Pretty sure there's a meta explanation for that one, which pulled a plot twist on her dissection of it for me. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are both Avengers, so they should be in the MCU, but they're also (sometimes?) Magneto's kids, making them mutants, putting them firmly with Fox and the X-Men. So, it seems like they split the difference; Quick stays with Fox, and Scarlet isn't even mentioned there, while the MCU gets the Witch and kills the Silver. Not saying it couldn't have been done better, but if that was the reason, it makes perfect sense.
David Bost It also could be that both Marvel and Fox wanted to use Quicksilver. X-Men Days of Future Past came out first and Quicksilver was quite popular. Marvel might have known that their version would be less popular (which was true) so they decided to kill him off, thinking that they could get more out of killing him than keeping a less successful version. Could explain why it kind of feels last minute and how it has very little effect on the characters. Just my theory though. Don’t have much proof but that’s how it seemed to me.
Me: I wonder what plot twist joke they're gonna start with?
*Sees Blue
11/10
I saw Blue, then my laptop died of shock.
And then they twist that twist by having Red go “no, we’re not doing that” and kicking him out immediately.
@@johnvarner5536 A plot twist INSIDE ANOTHER PLOT TWIST!
@@AaronDanarajF
Ooooooh... plot twist-ception...
I watched this numerous times and that still gets me
It's nice to see a TH-camr say "if the story is predictable, it means I'm getting my plot points across without losing anyone. It means I'm doing my job" makes me feel like so many people get so concerned about making their story interesting that they're actually filling out a checklist rather than writing characters who are actually relatable.
Hell, at this point audiences are so primed to expect twists that there are numerous films where the twist is that there is no twist and the exact thing that you were told to happen did happen, and it is genuinely a surprise and a shock/delight.
@@UnreasonableOpinions Have I got the show for you, then. Tangled the Series has *multiple* layers of twist in the season 2 finale. They directly told the audience the episode before that someone would betray Rapunzel, and throughout the episode, lead you to think it would be Eugene, but toward the end, have him avert the prophecy. So you'd expect that the big twist would be that there wasn't a twist and no one betrayed her. But then, in the last few minutes, the plot twists again, where not only *is* there the twist, but the prophecy was about Cass, not Eugene.
Add the reveal that Eugene's a Disney Prince suo jure, and that's at least 4 twists in one episode
I think there's a place where the twist and the predictability can meet in the middle. My favorite bits to write are where I build up to a moment where several things can happen, all of them have impact on how the story develops, and none of them are narratively off the table. The audience sees the twist coming, but still doesn't know how it will play out, only that the stakes are about to be raised.
No less a person than George Lucas apparently said "they became cliches because they work," hence a lot of his work embraces old tropes. Which is an interesing way to do it because when you DO decide to do something different, it might come off as all the more surprising. If done well.
@@UnreasonableOpinions Glass Onion. A plot that has several layers but you can see right through it to the core, right from the start.
Remember, "Uncle Ben dies" is still technically a plot twist, even though it surprises exactly 0 people, because it changes the trajectory of the plot.
Aunt may dies
Peter Parker dies
Everyone except deadpool dies
The Wizard of Oz being a fraud was written as a plot twist
In one of the parallel universes, Peter Park dies and Uncle Ben becomes Spiderman.
I honestly really loved the female Doc Oct reveal in Spider-verse.
My jaw dropped when she told Peter B. her full name and was like
"Yup, Peter's in trouble now."
And speaking of spoilers, I loved that this reveal was saved for the theaters instead of getting spoiled in the promotional material/sneak peaks. I don't think it would have been as much fun (on the first viewing) if it had been revealed early.
AnnaStones IKR!!!! I thought for a moment, “Wait? Is she related to Doc Oc?” Then she revealed that she was Doc Oc I was surprised. I was like, “no way.”
Well lets think if there is any hints prior to the reveal...
Liv is shown in many parts of the movie before her significance is clear.
The movie is built around a super high tech science thing.
Liv is a scientist working for the head bad guy.
The movie demonstrates that each universes version of Spiderman covers a huge variance of demographics/things.
Knowing all this if I were asked "Who is Doc Oc?" I would say it was Liv. However I wasn't asked, so when the reveal happened I was all "AW MAN I SHOULDA KNOWN!" cause it only made sense.
Also it fits very neatly into the rest of the story. Pre reveal Liv is shown as the dorky scientist under the thumb of big bad. This draws the question as to why Liv did not shut down the project when she knew it would harm people and set her up as the person who would help the Spidergroup. She then break all of this by making a statement that translates to 'human life has no meaning compared to science' because she is a villain.
@@robertdicke7249 even bigger for me was the twist that she wasn't a hapless scientist unknowingly helping a villain's scheme, but after the reveal it's shown that not only is she herself a villain but is the one actively manipulating Kingpin instead of the other way around
Good twist: "This is the Bad Place!"
Bad twist: "And who has a better story than Bran The Broken?"
It wasn't even a twist that they killed off all the good characters. At that point, it was like drawing straws. Bran just happened to draw the short straw.
Dang it finally someone referenced The Good Place
I was honestly SHOCKED when we found out they were all in the Bad Place after all, and it makes sense!
I kinda saw it coming just because it's from an episode of the Twilight Zone, but it was still really well done.
I honestly feel like The Good Place did a good job of pulling off all of its plot twists. Like I feel like anyone who wants to write a plot twist, should watch Game Of Thrones and The Good Place, to see how plot twists can be done both poorly and well,.
And they managed to one-up it: "Nobody has gotten into the Good Place in over 500 years."
And right there, it re-contextualizes everything we've seen so far and sets us up for the final season; we realize the system of the afterlife itself is broken, and it's up to our heroes to fix it.
"And I'm pretty sure they didn't mention him in Civil War."
Here I am, in 2021, watching WandaVision, and they've only just now mentioned Quicksilver for the first time since his death.
And it’s a fucking **spoilers**
They do mention him in Civil War, just indirectly. Hawkeye says "I owe a debt" when asked why he's helping Wanda
i did not see it coming
I loved Spiderverse a ton when I watched it. A few months later, I was talking to a girl in my high school gym class and it turned out that she was Brian Michael Bendis's (co-creator of Miles Morales) daughter (Olivia Bendis). That was certainly a plot twist. Might even be the biggest plot twist of my life, tbh.
Spiderverse was just such a good film that it had the power to bring its plot twists into the real world.
Just go towards her, put arm over her shoulder and say "Hey"
You have a lame, lame claim to fame!
I always feel like the best plot twists are the ones that make sense when you go back and reread/rewatch a story, and you realize all the hints
The Zero escape series in a nutshell. Like it's insane on a replay how blatant the hints are but you don't notice them until the twists happen.
Attack on Titan 100%
"I don't think you understand, Earth isn't *yours* to conquer."
@@guesswhatthisisnotmyrealna9510 Duude I was so suspicious about the phrasing of that line and I even muttered to myself “not yours to conquer, it’s mine…”
steven universe did this SURPRISINGLY well. like, better than a LOT of other shows I've seen.
In regards to the “what if quicksilver lives” it would also turn the “you know I’m five minutes older” into a bit of foreshadowing, with those five minutes turning into five YEARS.
It was twelve minutes, but yeah, that would've been a nice bit of payoff for that.
Oh gosh it's so PERFECT! WHY DON'T WE HAVE THIS?
i NEVER thought about how the movies would have been with quicksilver in it but DAMN now i WANT it!!
Shadowstriker Y’know what, I’m actually wanting to use that in a story I’m going to try writing now, thank you.
@@RinitaChan Good show. Hope it goes well.
I remember watching Spiderverse with my husband and realized the Prowler twist less than a minute before it happened. It was one of the most rewarding movie-viewing experiences I've ever had where I figured out a plot twist before the reveal.
@Noob7Zilla
I once did the same with the Ninjago, Masters of Spinjitzu sequel where I guessed that the dad was the villain all along
@@noiwvernsonic1358 which one are we talking about here? That's happened a few times?
It was good for new fans, but it was old hack for me. Was hoping for it to be his mom or something unexpected this time.
Foreshadowing, so long as it is not overdone, is part of what binds together a story into a coherent narrative. I actually actively seek out spoilers if I don't already know the author/director/original story because if after hearing the finale the rest loses interest then it wasn't worth the bother of more than a Sparknotes version anyway. Though GOT was good enough from a costuming and makeup standpoint, combined with some lovely world-building, to make it worth watching no matter how disappointing the end.
Regardless, my preferred genre of psych thriller exists because of a good chunk of people who love foreshadowing. Catching on long before something is stated outright feels like an accomplishment and makes the audience a participant of sorts rather than purely an onlooker. Note: prophesies tend to be lazy foreshadowing, been that way at least since the ancient Greek plays. Making the interpretation tricky but stating the prophesy outright put more of the audience on the same page.
A good plot twist shouldn't leave you thinking "I didn't see that coming" they should leave you thinking "I SHOULD'VE seen that coming" because it will make the little details make sense when you finally find out what's actually going on
!!! Yes! Ned Stark’s death in GoT season one is actually a great example. If you don’t know what happens when you first watch it, he dies and you’re like “well, yeah, of course he died - So why the HELL did I think he’d survive?” It’s surprising at first but obvious in retrospect
That is a great way to summarize! You’re left reevaluating your own assumptions. Not questioning the writers sanity.
*Red repeatedly says she has not watched GoT and then proceeds to properly and fully dissect the final season more completely in 3 minutes than most people do in 30*
That’s how you do it
It is why she got much of it wrong though. Everyone was not of the same mind. Everyone dd, not ave their expectations subverted. Many, many people though Danny ended up exactly where they expected her to based on the character eats for years. sad, but expected. They weren't sure Arya was to kill the night king, but thought all of that was for more than just revenge kills. etc. The only consensus is that things were rushed. Maybe if she had watched it she'd have seen Danny coming as she did Quicksilver's death; it was not hidden.
@@therealeverton yep she had no idea about GoT, it wasn't the plot twists that messed it up it was 8 seasons of building up the night king for him to be sniped by Arya who had already attained god mode powers(in 1 episode), as you say, Danny wasn't a plot twist, it was just rushed and poor writing
Mr Negative And also antithetical to all her previous growth and character arcs
Hold up, if she hasn't watched GOT and then dissects it, what? RED BE ACTING KINDA SUS!
@@sineadthomas2024 It's literally been telegraphed for most of the series. She's a cruel and horrible person to those not on her side and the audience was just meant to also hate those people for most of the series and missed it
That... alternate future with Quick Silver in it... HOW THE HELL DID YOU MAKE ME FEEL FRUSTRATED ON A MOVIE THAT WAS OVER YEARS AGO?! I was fine until you made me see that light!
Well she just made me frustrated about a movie I didn't even see!
@Abraham Garcia
And maybe the quality of said Disney+ show would last more than half a season! (Very much _unlike_ CW's Flash.)
One of the original drafts of Endgame has Hawkeye going back to Sokovia instead of the Clint family farm, grabbing Quicksilver and bringing him to 2023, where they could patch him up, and telling Pietro “You didn’t see that coming.”
@@TheBingusBongus
Damn, I need that
@@TheBingusBongus
I _so_ need that.
Signs Aliens:
“Commander, nearly 71% of this planet’s surface is covered in a lethal substance. Additionally, it makes up 0-4% of the planet’s atmosphere. Are you sure we shouldn’t wear suits?”
Commander: “Did I stutter?! I said no suits!”
"Can we at least wear helmets?"
"What are you, some kind of nerd?"
There was actually a really interesting headcanon that i personally adopted thay makes the movie a lot better and make a lot more sense: the "aliens" were actually demons. I forgot how the theory went but its about a pastor losing faith and this phenomenon happening concurrently; the little girl is held up as innocent and pure and its water she drank from that hurts the aliens or something. It actually hurts the aliens because its holy water and theyre demons instead
Budget cuts
To paraphrase Gorge RR Martin: If you write it so the butler did it, then people see the change coming so you change it so the chambermaid did it in the last chapter... then you've just written a bad story
THIS SO MUCH. I absolutely hate it when stories do this.
@One Thou Wou da fuck you gotta write this for?
@@h1302mm FUCK. YES. Especially in mysteries. the whole fun of reading old Hardy Boys books when I was a kid was that I could solve the case right alongside them. not to mention what the bad twist can do to characterization...
Did you mean "any modern version of Sherlock Holmes as well as all Detective Animes" ?
@@drhaxx7425 A lot of stories have this issue these days! From giant fantasy space westerns, to b-grade spin-offs of the zombie apocalypse.
"It contradicts canon or generally makes no sense when considered."
*Bad Plot Twists, thinking they're clever:* _"THAT WAS HIS MISTAKE!"_
THAT WAS HIS STEAK
@@Busshhu missed steak
@@theparrot6516 Mist AK
THAT MISTAKE WAS HIS
@@harisakma5733 HIS MISTAKE WAS THAT
The biggest plot twist will be finding out that Noobmaster69 is TheLegend27 in an alternate universe.
You know what would be bigger than that? finding out Just some Guy without a Mustache doesn't have a mustache in real life but he has a cool beard instead.
the biggest casual ever. moblie games and fortnite.
i see your bid and i raise you noobmaster69 being wade wilson
naw, I think it would be that just some guy without a mustache and just some guy with a mustache are the same person with different accounts
Hey it’s mr. mustache. What’s good
I can imagine an "It's all a dream" scenario where the dream actually impacts the plot. Like, if the experience of the dream effects the main characters behavior and compels them to do something they'd never would have before, then that would make the events of the fantasy still relevant without being directly causal.
A Christmas Carol can be a good example.
There is a game I played a few years ago that basically pulls this and was like "Hey, nothing you experienced was real. BUT, it was still important. Because even though none of the decisions you made were "real"...They still matter. Because right now, you're being judged for ALL OF IT."
And if you found a particular audio log and paid attention to a handful of little cues, you might in fact see this coming like I did and go "...Oh my god I was right...HOLY SHIT this is clever!"
@@AegixDrakan another is that the villain was afraid of your power or knew you would reduce his plans to ash in an instant, so he put you in a coma to make sure you never interfere. This could make a Villain like N'zoth who was served an disappointing final boss battle that never lived up to the hype surrounding the boss. there are other people talking about the disappointing Finale Raid Ny'olotha, which i like, but do see why many people felt disappointed. I Think Krucial Came back After a year of not posting WOW based videos, just to complain about the final boss and the lackluster Raid. I think an "it was all a dream" would fit with The theme of N'zoth being the manipulator behind the curtains, plus brings back a Villain to do some justice.
You immediately made me think of a Christmas carol
I feel like there's a lot of potential for a plot that's really meta with this. Like, "It was all a dream, but isn't this all fiction anyways? Are your dream realities any less real than the words put to page? The connections you've made?"
@@AegixDrakan something similar was pulled off in Rick and Morty's Season 4 Episode 6.
!SPOILER WARNING!
So in the episode Morty makes fun of Rick for not being as genius as he used to be, and convinces him to build a device that can turn back time in order to 'prove himself'.
Morty then uses the device to do all sorts of crazy stuff, as he can turn back time and cancel the repercussions.
The amazing twist comes right after Morty returns with the device after a couple of messed up events, saying he's had enough of the device, and admitting that life really is nothing without consequences.
To his surprise though, Rick answers: "Oh, but there were consequences, Morty", explaining that Morty's actions were not erased by the time travel, because he was transported to another universe instead. As a result, every time he did minor stuff like catch popcorn with his mouth over and over, he was killing thousands of Morty's from other universes.
While it's true that the foreshadowing to this twist was little to none, the twist works great in the sci-fi context of the show, and I was genuinely surprised by it.
One case of a twist congratulating itself that I really like is the Doki Doki Literature club one. I feel like that twist pats itself on the back hard, but I love how they handled it. They had a character literally say "Isn't it amazing when a writer can deliberately take advantage of your own lack of imagination to completely throw you for a loop?" when the game is still pretending to be a cutesy dating sim. Then after the twist, when everything is turned on its head, that line shows up again, spoken at the same moment in the story that just looped. It's both funny and a way of creating that retroactive context within the natural progression of the story by pointing out the obvious foreshadowing we missed the first time.
I really liked that game.
And it’s IMMEDIATELY followed up by Yuri saying “Anyway, I’ve been reading a lot of horror lately.” It’s almost TOO on the nose, which makes it all the better that no one going in blind ever sees it coming.
TBH I would never have played DDLC if I hadn't known it wasn't just another Japanese dating sim, no matter how hard anyone pushed it on me. Because, no. IRL dating is cringe enough, these actual dating sims are like a _Don't Hug Me I'm Scared_ episode where the dating app starts singing to them.
So pretty close to webisode 3
@@VinemapleIt keeps up the façade for a surprisingly long time too. In college my friend group started playing it together--each of us voicing a different character. It was a lot of fun, but we didn't actually get to the subversion. We ran out of time in the school year.
I later finished it on my own and found out we stopped maybe 10 minutes before the twist.
@@BFedie518 Oh, I know the feeling well... where you find out you quit just before the bit that would have kept you playing/watching/reading!
"Good stories have rewatch value" I'll just brb and watch Avatar TLA again...
Hell yeah.
the more I watch it, the less I like it. Last time I did, it just felt like I was waiting to get to the good episodes, many of them had the purpose of fleshing out the world, but when you already know it, it's just filler.
Mood. Gonna rewatch that soon.
Same
that reminds me i should rewatch it
I'm still waiting for ''Trope Talk: Plot Armor''. Is it only me or is there anyone with the same mindset/hope?
Timon you know I can just nearly remember reading a comic somewhere where one of the characters have an ability call plot armor that literally works as plot armor until one of the villains on it find a way to disable all abilities. well then you can Probally guess what happens next.
Your profile picture makes me sad 😔
Good example would be Ayra in the battle of winter fell... how many times was a roof gonna fall on her..
Timon is that a trope or is that just an example of a writing pitfall? usually it’s just bad writing, and if it isn’t it’s probably the prophecy trope, which she already covered
Tommy hasn’t seen star wars yet ehh I’d say it’s a trope at this point. Characters that can’t die. If they did the entire story would end. Ilbasiclly with out these characters the story has no meaning
I would have liked your version of Age of Ultron more.
Indeed.
Certainly.
I am not a huge fan of superhero movies and I would love to see that movie
Sigh me down for this vote
Yeah, it would have been great. Sadly though, Marvel didn't own the rights to the cinematic version of Quicksilver at the time, they were only allowed to use him for one movie.
Add onto the fact that the infamous Ultimates version of Wanda and Pietro (where they're having a good old Lannister-style twincest affair) has become common knowledge, coupled with Whedon's love of axing one half of a couple, and the fact that Marvel is owned by Disney (who probably flipped their shit when they saw the deleted scene which implies that said twincest may be canon to the MCU, to the point that they may have made Pietro's death a MANDATE), which practically demands one "emotional" character death per movie, and you can see that poor Pietro (and his storyline potiential) never stood a chance.
Honestly, my favorite twisty movie is Knives Out. There's several twists, you think you know what happened fairly early on, but that's all turned on its head, and I would absolutely watch it again and again despite knowing the outcome because all the characters are so well written
Oh yeah, Knives out is BEAUTIFULLY constructed with several clever obfuscations, and several excellent injections of information that guide us juuuust right. XD
I was looking through the comments to see if anyone else mentioned Knives Out!! I've seen it multiple times and I'm still finding clues!
Now this is just my opinion, but I thought the total change in tone was strange and unsatisfying. When the cool detective character played by Daniel Craig got pushed out of the main focus and started talking nonsense about a donut hole that was actually a donut and had an even smaller donut hole inside of it, that was one of the things that kind of lost my investment for the rest of the movie.
"You did it!" 😉
@@emmarichardson965 A little late but CinemaWins has a awesome video on it if you haven't seen it already
Show fans: "The ending destoryed the enjoyment of the entire series." 😡
Book fans: "At least, y'all GOT an ending." 😒
Puns.
😂 for real though
Not gonna lie, I'm in the same boat of GoT as Red here, but every GoT fan I've seen since then, when it rarely is brought up these days, is pure disdain for not only the last season, but the entire series consequently. I genuinely think that the show fans would've been sad if they got Firefly'd, but as it is the feeling seems to be "the ending was so bad it invalidated the journey" and that in turn makes it feel like the seven and a half seasons they spent giving a shit were outright wasted time. Usually "anything crap can be ignored, a bad ending beats none" works out, but I think it really was so supremely unsatisfying as to have been better if the series was open-ended.
@@JacklynBurn Man... Firefly... still too soon. (sniffle)
I'd rather not have an ending than have a shit one, cause if you dont have an ending, than you can imagine what happened to everyone, but if you have a shit ending, you just have to live with it being shit
seeing this again makes me think of Wandavision. Like yeah, they throw a dead pietro there (as a bad twist again) but imagine Red's version. Can you imagine the amazing interplay that could happen if she had brain-washed her own LIVING brother into a part on that show? THAT would be an amazing way to end the series, with her finally realizing how she was actually hurting people, not just hearing the now-unsuppressed thoughts of strangers, but seeing his 5-year-older "I dealt with this, I understand you, but it hurts me" face and having THAT be the moment she decides to let go of her show? it would be AMAZING
That would have been cool. But i honestly prefer the idea of the people of Westview telling her what she's really doing. Her breakdown and immediate decision to release them shows that she cares for people who aren't family or friends but strangers that she swore to protect as an Avenger. If Pietro was the one to tell her that it would kind of come across as "Wanda only cares about the people who are actually close to her" and it would make her look very selfish.
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296 You could play it off as "Pietro" being the moral side of Wanda manifesting. Like after Vision points out to her that the people of Westview are being hurt of her brainwashing and Wanda being in denial, that her consciousness creates Pietro to help her snap out it. So it's still her realizing that she hurt everyone in Westview.
You could even have stuff like Pietro having some sort of sitcom rivalry with Agnes as Wanda's consciousness could've realized that Agatha is the one pulling some string behind the scenes. You could even have him trying to be a buddy to Vision to help him guide towards the truth and have Pietro tag along on Visions investigations so that Wanda's consciousness could see what she is doing. But it's played off like the irresponsible brother trying to be a friend to the uptight husband you see in sitcoms and maybe give a bit of a red herring that Pietro is trying to stop Vision instead of helping him.
But they undo all of the “I care about people” stuff in DSMoM. She kills and destroys whole worlds, and only when her children are scared of her does she stop. She almost unleashes THE head demon for her family. They could have done so much more with her and QS as foils. QS sides with Tony which causes the rift, maybe Wanda is still pissed at Tony and part of her begins to hate QS too. To repair his relationship, maybe he switched sides, or maybe Wanda controls his brain a little, show the beginnings of her madness. He wants to help his sister, “sorry Tony, but I can’t lose her” something like that.
As we go into Infinity war, he’s helping Cap and we see him and Wanda have drifted. She’s focused on Vision and He’s now angry that she went to such lengths just to abandon her for a robot. He steels himself and he slowly migrated into the “save Bucky” gang. We see them fighting an evil threat and QS taking some sort of lead role. He being a hero while his sister is still clinging to ideas of family but not living up to them, maybe in the Wanda and Vision scene, Vision asks “why don’t you help your brother.” After Wanda shows him pics and looks sad about family. And Wanda can’t answer, or maybe she does but says, “he’s changed” and then vision says, “and you haven’t” Wanda says nothing because they get attacked and go help the Rest of the Avengers.
As they all meet in Wakanda, we see QS and Wanda have an awkward scene and lose some of the sibling pettiness that has been showed. QS has been working through his grief and Wanda has been stewing in it, maybe Thanos (in this version super evil) points it out and says, something to the effect of, “more death in your family pot” something - I’m bad at dialogue. Wanda is gutted at visions lost and goes berserk having almost destroyed Thanos and some other avengers in the process.
QS having Dealt with his sister before must grab her and run with her away from other people.
She lashes her blind rage out at him, and he must run before he dies. As Thor shows up, and Thanos goes to Snap, QS is a second to late. We the audience realize that maybe he could have stopped it if he wasn’t dealing with Wanda. As he goes back to the spot her left her, we realize she’s gone. He falls to his knees, curtain falls.
5 years past, QS has been sad but fighting as he’s always done. (in this version we have an actually fleshed out Natasha) he’s been healing and fighting with the Remaining save Bucky squad.
The day is saved but Nat dies tragically. QS was using her a a surrogate big sister. He’s damaged, but determined to reunite with his sister, but she returns mad, she destroys so much, she then leaves.
We now have Kinda Evil Wanda, someone to mourn Nat and a sad boy.
Keep everything but the Enternals and rewriting WandaVision to have QS in the Show.
Now we can set up a new gen of heros and have Wanda as an overarching big bad.
We now on earth have:
She Hulk(Daredevil still sad boy)
Bucky
Falcon turn Eagle(because America)
Photon
Ant-Man
Daredevil and the New York Squad
BP
And QS
We give the old guard Bucky and Falcon their own thing and Make them gay because duh. Give Ant Man less screen time and give it to his better written daughter. Give Shuri and QS a team up, both grieving for/with their siblings and their people. Now he’s a big brother, she helps him heal. Photon working with Sword goes to NYC and she teams up with the NYC squad, all now better written and better. She Hulk gets her own thing and in the end we have a new avengers team:
Eagle
Bucky
Photon
QS
BP
SH
And like one person from the NYC gang maybe Matt but I’m leaning towards JJ because I love jaded Pyshics. The rest are protecting New York and dating She Hulk.
They have like 2 movies but In the end Wanda - who had been a big bad. Comes and kills many of them SH quits going on active missions when DD dies and steps into to protect his home. ANT MAN ALMOST Dies which is not that sad but I put it in caps anyway. JJ leaves. Photon dies, BP protects her kingdom and Eagle and Bucky go back to protecting the world from Hydra.
QS is the last of the earth people actively being an avenger, the second movie closes with him sad with no more Shuri and a looming threat. And a mysterious not saying “go find Peter Parker”
We also have
Space heros like
Thor
The Guardians
Enternals(keep them just get a better writer)
Cap Marvel
(Give them all movies and keep them in space fighting a big bad, maybe have Thor heal some more and rewrite his love story to make his last 3 movies more cohesive with a proper send off, and send Love to earth to fight with the young kids ^see next^)
And we have new Up and Coming hero’s like
Unremebered Spidey
Ms. Marvel
Squirrel Girl(because we need that)
America
Stature
Maybe iron heart
Young Hawkeye
And Maybe the Twins.
(TV shows for most - can definitely condense SG into MS. marvel and if written well enough they could totally do a 12-15 episode 5 man band of SG, MM, America, IH, and YH. Have Stature develop with her dad, and give up on Wiccan until the end of Wanda’s/QS arc. Then give them a movie when the come together and help a now older spider man - who they all remember some how and have to help - QS as leader)
We end with QS not leading the superheros and going to therapy after killing his sister.
And we have back Tom Holland, yay! Also I think it’s the most fitting to have a team full of women to help him realize his baggage. We end with him dedicating his life to helping raise the twins and him finally having the family he’s been searching for.
We also fighters of the dark shadows that lurk in the background:
Fury
MK
Blade
And those characters from Werewolf at Night.
(Give them like TV shows and call it s day, nothing too deep with them maybe have Fury be the one to write the note after he becomes a watcher maybe follow the comic format and the reason that Eagle and Bucky aren’t fighting anymore is because they are rebuilding shield.
Multi-verse crap:
DS
Loki
(I feel like mix DS and Loki, I want to see that duo so badly, have themes of change and growth for the man children. Maybe have them show up in the last battles of both the Enternals/space guys and The New Kids - have them collide some how, idk maybe having Wanda resurrect the Enternal to grant her wish of her children.
Something like that.
Idk, I just want more QS
But would she have made the show if she hadn't lost BOTH her husband and brother?
Though the age gap could’ve led to interesting conflict where they’re out of touch and she feels as if she’s lost her brother since he’s so different than she remembers, leading her to make the “right” Pietro
Me: Oh a notification! I really hope it’s the next episode of Journey To The West!
Red: Plot twist
Plot twist: The new episode of Journey to the West is never happening. *sad violin starts playing*
Journey to Half Life 3 (grrrrr)
@@RogerEverett plot twist, journey to the west was half life 3 all along
*expectation subversion
Maria Bianchi I love this comment
"Oh, a decent but predictable plot line was replaced by a random, shitty one. What a twist!"
That's how I felt after season 1, episode 22 of Code Geass and seeing Lelouch accidently use the Geass on Princess Euphemia. "Oh; so instead of letting Euphemia's plan go into action and fall apart, you're instead going to have her die from a contrivance? Cool twist (sarcasm)."
Hitchcock's bomb goes off not with a bang, but with a whimper.
@@lykander9906 Yeah, or it just doesn't go off at all.
Matthew St. Cyr As much as I hate that part of code geass, it WAS foreshadowed with both the previous Mao arc, showing that a Geass can and will grow out of its users control, and Lelouch’s geass seemingly acting up earlier in the episode. Contrived, yes, but it didn’t come out of nowhere
@@theonegoldengryphon Foreshadowing does not justify a twist; it only hints at it. There were far better ways to make his geass activate on its own with tragic consequences.
Jaime and Brienne's little fling was actually a two (k)night stand
I understood that reference!
*shame bell meme here*
"J'aime" ton comment. XD
*Ear rape version of shame bell meme here*
I love this.
A good plot twist is when it makes the audience go "oh, that makes sense. That's why this thing happened, or that's why they act like that!" Some examples are:
- Over The Garden Wall, where it is revealed in the final episode how Wirt and Greg ended up in the Unknown, and how the Unknown is not connected to the real world. We don't see it coming exactly, but it's also not a random twist thrown in to shock the audience. It explains why their outfits are so strange (because they were dressed up for Halloween), it explains why these two are the only characters who speak in a modern slang (except for Beatrice also), and it explains their whole reaction to the scenario.
- Almost any of Agatha Christie's stories have a seemingly unexpected plot twist, but as the criminal's actions and motivations are explained, we realized that it is not out of the blue. When we re-read the story, we are able to catch glimpses of the criminal's suspicious behaviour throughout the story.
- Toy Story 3 where the pink bear, whatever his name was, turns out to be the villain. His story almost mirrors that of Woody's and Jess's, basically being forgotten by an owner. And since this fear is talked about before, the plot twist doesn't seem hard to believe.
- Gravity Falls where Stan is revealed to have a brother who he had been working hard to get back. Stan, generally portrayed as a hilarious and morally grey character, had already shown signs of holding a secret from the very beginning. It also puts into place some other incidents such as when he was heartbroken over the damage of a figurine that looked like him, because it reminded him of his twin brother. But at the same time, we get suspicions of the author of the journal being Fiddleford McGucket or even Stan himself.
I’d also go with volo from weirdly enough Pokémon. The entire game I was frustrated with the character because he didn’t make sense to me. Then he gets revealed and my thought wasn’t “huh?” or “ahha, I knew it” it was “oh, that’s why he had a different personality in every interaction”.
Something darkly funny about forgetting the name of a villian with abandonment issues... Anyway his name is Lotso.
"I've absorbed more of 'Game of Thrones' through pop culture osmosis than I remember from some shows I actually watched."
Laughed to find I'm not the only one! To the point where, although I didn't care how it ended, I _did_ care whether it ended well or badly, and could tell the difference.
hey, that's three of us then! IT STILL PISSES ME OFF, THOUGH!
Epi Endless
That's what happens when pundits and politicians take an interest.
This`s the same with me, but scratch out GoT w/ VLD.
Everyone and their fucking mother went batshit after the hellfire that was Season 8, and it was practically impossible to NOT know what went down. I know every major plot point in VLD, and I`ve only seen Seasons 1 & 2. Hell, I didn`t even need to WATCH S 1-2, cause everyone had already gushed over it (VLD S 1&2 are considered the best Seasons of the series and have the most memorable moments by far) and how amazing it was compared to everything else.
@@chicnuggs8238 By VLD, do you mean Voltron: Legendary Defender?
And if so, why use the acronym?
@@joshlegacy1101 Yes I do mean Voltron: Legendary Defender. And I used the acronym cause I was too lazy to type that shit out every time I mentioned it.
Quicksilver surviving could be an episode of the new show
What if...?
Too bad it'd be on Disney+
@@kimballbelliston5925 Why's that a "too bad"?
Someone get Masakox on this like right now.
@@mengguguo Because I'm already paying for three other streaming services, and Disney+ is set to cost more than any of those.
Aaron Myers it’s set to cost less than Hulu and Netflix what do you have?
"The twist contradicts canon..."
I'm looking at you, Fantastic Beasts 2!
Ikr
I watched it but my brain purged a lot of things out of my memory. What was contradicted there?
FB contradicts Harry potter canon but does it contradict it's own canon? I honestly never saw it as being in the same universe as Harry potter not as a prequel or anything else. Just curious I'm not a serious fan so I don't know.
@@AlrycaAeveaHexendias
SPOILER WARNING
There's a twist that the obscurist guy (can't remember his name off the top of my head; he's got a bowl cut?) is actually a Dumbledore which could happen but if they try to say he's Dumbledore's bro that doesn't make sense because we know Albus' family members from detailed descriptions in the 7th original book.
@@nonameless2 I feel like people forget how families work. Maybe I'm the one missing something here, but couldn't that just mean he's a cousin?
I've heard plot twists described as "when all the little things that didn't add up suddenly do". My personal favorite example is in Legend of the Guardians, with the traitor (won't spoil it). It was amazing because we figured it out at the same time as Soren. I usually spot things coming at least one scene before it's revealed, so it was nice to get it at the same time as the MC.
Having read and loved the books, I actively hate that movie. But even I have to admit, they did the twist well. Technically that twist doesn’t execute until several books after the ones the movie covers, giving a lot more time for buildup of this terrifying monster with a metal beak, but they did well with what they had.
@@Red-in-Greenwell, no surprise zack snyder directing style made the whole movie prototype ant man and wasp with kang quantumania movie tonewise, dead serious kang in a crime sitcom superhero movie world going flash gordon style of quantum realm and star wars type of multiverse from my point of view the same way zack directed his superman trilogy, watchmen and especially 300 the most.
"you were expecting a plot twist but it was me, Dio!"
DIO
Oh? You're approaching me with character development and narrative cohesion?
@@rahmanmoncatar9675 Oh ho. Well come as close as you like.
@@Usernamesdontmatter1 ORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORA
@@rahmanmoncatar9675 MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA
WHAT?! Spoilers?! in a video about Plot twists?!?! Who could've seen that coming!?!?
I've only seen half of the movies/shows mentioned. I've considered skipping this video for a second, and nah.
Was that a pun..?
What a twist!
Well now you've spoiled this video for me!
*spoilers*
the above movie mentions may contain plot twists
I can understand both sides of the spoiler argument. There are times when a spoiler made the movie disappointing, or made it more fun.
What really grinds my gears is when I get a spoiler, but no one tells me. Let me spoil Megamind for you.
The plot basically is subversive Superman tropes. 2 planets dying, 2 babies arrive on earth, one privileged, the other raised in literal prison. Privileged becomes a superhero, prison baby a villain, Megamind. Megamind then kills the hero in the first 20 mins, gets depressed and makes a replacement. Towards the end of the second act, maybe beginning of the third act, it is revealed that the hero faked his death to avoid responsibility and become a terrible musician. Villain realizes that he could be a hero if he wants to, and destiny doesn't really contain him like he believed, saves the day, happily ever after
HOWEVER. Many of the trailers I saw before going to see Megamind started with the idea, "What happens when the hero decides to hang up his cape?" Followed by a clip of the hero in a bathrobe, unshaven, unkept, probably unwashed, saying, "I-I'm done." And it wasn't until 20 mins in that I realized, oh no, that was the plot twist.
I felt so robbed. It's one thing to ruin the shock by spoiling something, intentional or otherwise. At least you know going in what you know that you shouldn't. But when you're sitting there for half an hour waiting for the hero to announce his retirement, and realizing that's not how it's going to play out, it's incredibly frustrating, deflating, and destabilizing.
I remember back when Stargate SG-1 was being produced on the Sci-Fi Channel... the upcoming episode trailers spoiled things ALL THE FREAKING TIME. One episode, the narrator for the trailer even outright said something like "You won't believe what happens", and then less than a second later, the trailer shows you. So most of the plot twists the writers put out ended up hitting like your experience with Megamind.
There's a reason that in the 200th episode, the characters are discussing plot twists because of the premise of the episode, and General O'Neill has just showed up on-base after he'd been reassigned to the Pentagon over a season ago because Richard Dean Anderson had left the show to spend more time with his family, and Carter says, "Are you kidding? It'll be spoiled in the trailer." And yes, it *was* spoiled in the trailer for that episode, her line included.
Twilight Sparkle getting wings at the end of season 3 was plastered all over the hub channel before the episode even debuted.
I remember seeing that. It was different for me. I only saw trailers with clips from the first twenty minutes, so seeing "Metro-Man's" skeleton was a major WTF moment for me.
I'm so happy I watched Megamind blind just based on all the positive talk about it
That's a pretty big fuck-up alright.
It's not even 'we're not confident we could sell the untwisted version of this' like 'T2-arnie is the good guy now'-promotion-panic.
The 'untwisted' version is substantial, the story sold by that marketing is not the issue the protagonist actually faces.
Not only did they sell a different movie by revealing that twist.
They sold an inferior movie by hiding it was a twist.
Iron man dies is the new dumbledore dies
Also the quicksilver plot you made sounded amazing!
I don't think Tony's death was a twist, I mean it was the opposite of that, since everybody saw it coming and closed his arc in the best way possible.
And long before Dumbledore dies there was Darth Vader is Luke's father
@@emmae2520 Dumbledore and Iron Man deaths are not plot twists though, Darth Vader revelation is. We already knew Dumbledore would die because he was sick, the plot twist was Snape murdering him and going with Voldemort. And self sacrifice was the ending of Tonys arc, so anyone who analized his character could see that coming.
@@emmae2520, even though the name "Darth Vader" memes "dark father" in German
@@Who-vd3iv not to mention Tony's self sacrifice was foreshadowed through all 3 Ironman movies.
“Pop culture osmosis” is probably the only reason me, a noted movie abstainer, actually knows a basic plot to movies.
mood
I didn't watch a single marvel movie before endgame and it was awesome and made sense.
Shoutouts to essay videos
Pop culture osmosis is a term I need to remember
I make my friends irrationally angry by referencing movies I’ve never seen. It’s a great feeling :)
A FELLOW MOVE ABSTAINER! WE EXIST!!
The Vulture twist was so damn good. I still remember seeing that in the theatre and just being "oh no!"
I initially thought he kidnapped Liz. Then he said he was her father. My reaction was this:
“Oh. That’s actually worse.”
I had known a little bit of Homecoming’s events leading up to it through media coverage, but nothing about the Vulture twist. One of the few times the internet was kind to me, which meant that when I got to that point, it was just a feeling of “ah, meeting the parents, this should be fuuuUUUUCKING GOD OH NO”
"Good Ole Spider-man"
Vulture was very well done. That fucking scene with the traffic light as well showing that he's realised that Peter is Spidey was really cool to notice as well. A nice little visual flair
Which is why I personally feel like things like that shouldn't be spoiled, let people have that first experience of shock, they can always have the repeated watching experience, but never the 1st watching.
Man, now I'm thinking of a fight between Quicksilver and Wanda where Wanda gets her traumatizing touch (TM) in, but it doesn't work because fighting his sister and last living family member IS his worst nightmare
Dang, that would be so sad
Disappointed Blue didn't open by just yelling M. Night Shamallama
Thank you for making me actually audibly laugh today. I needed that.
sama
Remember all fledgling writers. Shock over substance never ever works in any writing.
skinnypennis_ Unless you’re writing about electricity
What's really weird about 'Terminator 2' is that the twist was actually spoiled in the trailers!
They just couldn't help but tell everyone that Arnie was gonna be the good guy.
So watching those first few scenes in the theatre was slightly surreal. It was like "the director is clearly trying to make us believe Arnie is still the bad guy, but we all know he isn't, this is weird".
Especially the Terminator films seem to be plagued by this problem. Imagine being a movie director who tries his darndest to build up to a good twist and the marketing people are like "Soo, we will put that in the trailer you guys. Cool? Cool."
@@wjzav1971 Note to self, don't complete effects for scenes you don't want in the trailers
Oddly enough, this is why I especially enjoy watching reaction vids from Zoomers towards T2, because they usually DON'T know it's coming. It's really fun seeing people being surprised by the reveal.
What really worked with the Prowler reveal was that it sets up future suspense, especially for anyone familiar with the comics. There, Aaron had no issues with trying to murder Miles even after knowing who he is. So the audience, including me, is left wondering what he’ll do when he finds out. And when he puts the mask back on Miles, it seems like he’s making it easier on himself to kill his nephew. Thankfully for Miles, the power of love prevails. Unfortunately for Aaron, he’s the uncle in a Spider-Man origin story.
THAT LAST SENTENCE SKSKSKAHAISHAJSIGSHS
was he trying to kill miles, though?
5:45 Or even better, just have an ompitent narrator announce: "one of these people will be dead by the end". Now you're in suspense and wondering who, how, and why.
For bonus points, have the narrator comment on the revelation, breaking the fourth wall for funsies
That is exactly what the Spider-Man comics did with Gwen Stacy's death. It was even on the cover of the comic "one of Spider-Man's loved ones will die"
Plot twist: The narrator died.
Bet you didn't see that one coming?
@@ellie8272 Comics of old pulled that one way to often. The first Sentinel-Storyline endet with an issue for which it was announced that "A character will die". I mean, it was a three issue old character, who was basically the original villain of this arc, but sure. Let's advertise with that.
My point: I think when it came to Gwen Stacy people probably already expected a cop out and did not believe it.
I've seen this been done but just by having the story not be in chronological order, e.g the story, chapter, arc, episode or whatever starts with the news that one of the characters of a team we care about has died. But before we find out who it is, the story goes back to the beginning and we watch the mission from the start and we're kept in suspense to see who dies.
15:13 -- "When your plot twist looks directly into the camera and cheekily says, 'Ya didn't see that comin’?’ Please just… stop; and maybe fire your writers."
Yes, I agree. That has gotta be one of the cringiest "plot twists" I've ever seen.
What Red failed to acknowledge there was how it was more of a dark joke ending the spat between Clint and Quicksilver (can’t remember his real name) as in his opening scene, he hits Clint and sarcastically says “What, you didn’t see that coming?”
Much later in the film, Clint shoots a bullet through the glass floor and Quicksilver falls to the level below where Clint retorts back the same statement. My point in all this is that Red was biased while saying this and didn’t rewatch the movie to make sure she had her facts straight (she did a similar thing with time travel in Terminator 2)
@@aionicthunder and let's not forget the real reason they killed him... Copyrights.
@@aionicthunder Eh, that doesn’t make up for the other stuff she talked about though.
@@lyhenglim6969 it does not, but it is always stupid to not mention the good bits of the thing you hate. Only talking about the worst bits of something (doing a leafy I call it.) it's is either a sign of weakness, being a jerk, forgetfulness, or a hidden bias you might not even have known of. In this case it's one of the last two.
@@gillbray2889 Hm that’s fair. I was just trying to say that while Aionic Thunder made a valid point, the twist was still negatively affected by the other things she mentioned. Though I do think her “wink at the audience” point still stands. In universe it’s cuz of the in-joke but to the audience it could so easily be interpreted as a way for the writers to talk to the audience that the context of the in-joke just doesn’t make it any better.
Retroactive twists?
"On this planet you call females who have yet to become adults: Girls. It makes sense then that since you'll eventually become witches, you should be called: Magical Girls"
Maki death flashbacks
Sol jims turn to grif sid.
WE YO FRIENDS MEGUKA
Nice spoiler that no one but anime fans would get, I kinda respect that.
Madoka has both plot twist types! Retroactive with Homura and the witch revelation and trajectory with Mami dying
Ok fuck you, i'm still not over that 😭
One of my favorite twists of all time is Mysterio in spiderman ffh. Absolutely everybody who knows anything about marvel comics knows that Mysterio is one of Spiderman’s villains, so instead of trying to drag out the reveal for shock value they made it one of the campiest and fun scenes in the whole movie. It’s a straight up party as they’re celebrating getting one up on the teenager who just watched his mentor get killed.
I enjoyed it, because it seemed like it was poking fun at the idea of the MCU shifting towards being so silly and outlandish that people would believe in his BS alternate universe backstory. Then Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness happened, and I realized we're fully in comic book ridiculousness now...
Not only that, but it didn't feel off or unnatural for people unfamiliar with the comics
I watched it with my dad. I knew about the Mysterio reveal, dad didn't. The moment Quentin asked for the glasses, dad knew. It was a twist for him, a treat for me.
16:45
Ik enough Japanese to see that it says “Omae wa mou... shindeiru”
NANI?!
*Brain explodes*
I was surprised at myself that I was actually able to recognize it! :D
This is partially why I don’t like spoilers. I love the first shock of a twist. Afterwards, you will get the suspense. But if you’re spoiled you’ll only get the suspense.
If you’re aren’t spoiled, you’ll get both
That requires a rewatch though, and not everyone has the time to do that. If a series, especially a long one that is 5+ hours, ends on a major twist, I would rather than the 5 hours of suspense, and deeper appreciation due to noticing the clues, than 1 minute of shock and 5 hours of nothing.
@@Late0NightPC Sounds like you’re trying to justify why you screamed a spoiler in a crowded theater
@@chinsaw2727 They didn't say THEY gave out the spoilers they said they LIKE spoilers.
At least, that's my interpretation because I feel exactly the same way - I almost always seek out spoilery reviews because that A: tells me more about whether I'm going to be happy spending my time on this piece of media and B: it allows me to enjoy the suspense and spotting the planting and payoff.
That said, I know a lot of people really like to be surprised, so in talking to someone about the latest book/movie I'm excited about I'll usually stop halfway through and go: "Wait, are you likely to want to read/watch this? And, if so, would you be upset if I told you what happens?" If they say "yes" I'll stop; if "no" or "yes, but I don't care about spoilers", then I'm free to rant about the twists.
If you have Alzheimer's, you only get the first effect.
i think suspense for the first time is a different experience from suspense when rewatching.
Maybe the real Night King was the M. Night Shymalan we found along the way
I went through a similar experience with Star Wars: since it’s such a pop culture hallmark, I knew the two big twists before watching the movies. The sibling twist fell flat for me as a result (especially given how ANH and ESB was baiting a romance between them), but the parent twist was still great.
The suspense leading up to the parent reveal and the catharsis that came after meant it was still a great experience (especially since it doesn’t break any logic within the films)…which makes it a great twist imo (surely shocking for people who didn’t know, but still satisfying and logical for those watching later)
me on first viewing: "hmm, okay, interesting"
me on second viewing: "SHOCK BAIT HOO HA HA!"
Freakin' Finding Nemo reference how could you
Welcome, brother Shock Bait.
SHOCK BAIT! OOH HA HA!
From henceforth, you shall be called......Shockbait
Enough with the shock bait
SHOCK BAIT HOO- ha- skadoo...
suddenly, i'm a lot less self-conscious about my writing and where it's going
Good. Just write what you think sounds good and then worry when your done! I'm sure if you showed it to people they would give you meaningful help that you could use to improve, and even reading it yourself can reveal issues. That's why theres a backspace key, no writer is perfect on their first draft!
Edit: not really to good
@@jynexe3056 PGJ: "suddenly, i'm a lot less self-conscious about my writing and where it's going"
You: "Don't be."
Me: *MMMMMMMMM*
@@elias.t AH WAIT DID I MISS READ THIS AHHH NO IM SORRY
You're gonna write absolute garbage for a long time but eventually it'll be good
Same here! Especially since I'm already planning some big twists so yeah
Saw The Rise of Skywalker this week. Suddenly this video feels very, very relevant again.
Rise of Skywalker is easily the worst of all the SW films. Even the Ewok Adventures were better constructed as stories, albeit cheap, corny, and childish.
@@phastinemoon hater but you opins
I think every twist in that movie fits at least 3 of her 4 'bad twist' check boxes
@@phastinemoon I would point at the Star Wars Holiday Special, but I don't think it counts as a "movie".
Agreed. The Grandpa Palpatine twist was bad for a few reasons, but the biggest for me are that it ultimately meant nothing and the original path for Rey's story was more interesting.
Revealing he's Rey's grandfather halfway through the FINAL movie in the trilogy meant they had no time to actually explore that dynamic and what it meant. Luke found out Vader was his father in ESB and spent nearly all of RoTJ dealing with it. For Rey it's basically "Your grandpa was a Sith Lord, so you should be tempted by the Dark Side. Go let him take over your body."
And Rey's original story from TFA and TLJ was simply more interesting. Someone who wanted to be part of something special completely in denial that her parents abandoned her and were never coming back until it's completely shoved in her face. That feeling of loneliness gives a somewhat believable reason why she'd be tempted by the Dark Side when it's Kylo Ren offering that hand of friendship, one of the few people Rey had developed a deep connection with and who's saying she should just forget her painful past.
I remember reading a fanfiction with the "they were dead all along!" twist and it was written amazingly. Legit I loved it so much because of how it was foreshadowed and executed, it also triggered my thanatophobia so that isn't fun.
which fanfic was that?? im curious now
I remember reading one like that too, it was presented as a crack fic, then in the ending chapters it was revealed thru the world breaking and eventually the MC accepting his death, really well written and the reason i now read all the tags lol
Good writers don't try to "beat" their audience's expectations, they try to write good
GoT writers: "I'mma pretend I didn't hear that"
Sadly, that 'outsmart your audience' kind of mentality is what many bad writers think is good writing.
I'll do you one better: good writers don't try to "entertain" their either real or perceived audiences, they try to write cohesive stories that they themselves would've enjoyed and see who'll stick with their vision and style of storytelling.
Into the Spiderverse is laden with subversions and it's beautiful.
CheesecakeLasagna yep
I wanna eat a cheesecake lassangna now. Damn
Especially Dr. Octopuses
Intelligent, well-crafted subversions, as opposed to at least one notorious blockbuster of recent years.
God yes, I could probably talk for hours about it because it does it so well. It's such a clever and well thought out movie in more than one way. I mean the Spanish dialogue for example kinda from the start establishes that this movie expects it's audience to also be well educated and clever.
The best twists are the ones foreshadowed well before the reveal scene, because it adds a new level of enjoyment on rewatches/replays.
Literally! I've been re-reading Omniscient reader's viewpoint recently, and knowing all of the twists makes it feel like a whole new book.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought Pietro's death was unnecessary expected
Expected how? Hawkeye's entire plot and dialogue up to Pietro's death was just bashing the audience over the head that Clint would be dying in this movie.
@@chand911 Exactly, too many death flags made it obvious he wasn't going to die. Even without those flags, it was quite obvious Quicksilver would die since having one twin die is a common trope. Plus, they kept raising death flags for Hawkeye, but then they have someone who can run really fast on the same team as him.
Whenever there's a character who can run fast, it pretty much always means they're either going to save the ordinary every time, or they're going to die doing it.
Congratulations Osp, you've made meme fame. There is a subreddit called r/mythologymemes and people have started using still frames of your videos as meme templates
That there is a trajectory plot twist.
@@Chad_Eldridge here's a link to the subreddit, if you browse a little bit im sure you'll find an Osp related post
@@Chad_Eldridge sorry im an idiot. I copied it to my clip board but forgot to paste
www.reddit.com/r/mythologymemes?
“Oh and make sure to call him “Bran the Broken” because I bet the disabled members of the audience weren’t expecting to feel terrible today” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
💀💀💀 had me rolling
George RR Martin once said if the butler who did the murder and the fans figure it out and in the last second you change it making the maid the killer basically you destroyed the clues and hints
Yeah, that’s honestly such a good piece of advice.
But a really good writer would have been able to make reasoning for the clues and hints to fit both the maid AND the butler. Or a bad writer. I'm not sure which.
Exarch-of-Sechrima It can go either way. On the one hand, a good write could (hypothetically) handle a change like that. However, by making it so that the twist could go either way, the characters aren’t as well defined because the writer isn’t sure which one the twist should be about.
@@quillheart0331 they become less characters and more plot devices in that sense, especially if they don't get enough characterisation. also any statement can sound bad if you make the right counter arguements and all you end up doing is miss the point so you could look smart.
@@7MukuroRealm There is another good way around it that I really like: all the signs point to it being the butler except for one thing that seemingly proves that it can't possibly be the butler, like the butler having an alibi thanks to the maid, but then it turns out that the butler is still connected to the crime and you weren't wrong for noticing the signs. Spoilers for a really good anime called _Black Clover_ ahead:
The main villain is a mysterious character going by the alias Licht. Now, there's also a major supporting character called Vangeance. All the signs point to Licht being Vangeance, except their magic attributes are completely different (each person can only use magic of a certain attribute: Licht has light magic while Vangeance has World Tree magic), their voices and eye colors are different, and lastly: Vangeance has a big scar on his forehead that's a curse on his mother's side of the family tree. So, Vangeance can't possibly be Licht.
The twist is that Vangeance indeed is not Licht; however, he and Licht are not only working together, but they also share the same body. Whenever Licht takes over Vangeance's body, the eyes and voice change, and the scar disappears because the curse doesn't apply to him.
"The twist is less interesting than not having the twist":
The Village is a 2004 American period horror film written, produced, and directed by M. Night Shyamalan.
..
the guy simply just can't score can he
@@matheussanthiago9685 I honestly like the concept of Unbreakable and even knowing the twist there's a part of me that wants to rewatch it.
Then there's the rest of me that remembers the time I tried and got so bored I couldn't even get 20 minutes in. Why is it so slow? How is it so slow? I felt like I might have slipped backward in time it was so slow.
Also, the infamous How I Met Your Mother series finale.
@@sanityisrelative Nah.
Noooooo, I like that twist. It adds a tragic layer to the story.
Damn, now I want an AU where Pietro lived.
Thankfully since the Marvel Multiverse is a thing there is a universe where he does survive
I don't, I think endgame already had way too much characters .
@@skyblueblazes9332 considering the existence of the multiverse and how drastically character personalities can change from universe to universe and even timeline to timeline.
I wonder if it possible to have a place where Ultron has learned the value of life and sees the danger higher being like immortals and gods can do to mortals and decides to form a console of other super powered individuals that got their powers with the power of human kind or other mortal race. The console is trying to get rid of all this higher being either killing them or putting them In a place where they can do no harm.
Creating this ultimate war between the powers who have created the mortals and the creation of the mortals themselves.
To be fair, the writers of Age of Ultron most likely didn't know about the events of Civil War, Infinity War, or Endgame.
As much as I love age of ultron, I 100% agree with your opinions about quicksilver. And am now sad about how we will never see him again in the mcu.
You should do a video about foreshadowing! Always thought the most important element of a plot twist was foreshadowing 👍
Interesting thought. I'll keep it in mind
No, the most important element of a plot twist is writing the plot twist along with the story and not try to shoehorn it into the story because we expect one. Foreshadowing is just a detail to reinforce the believability of the plot twist.
Jack Linde aren’t we kind of saying the same thing from the opposite direction?
Me: writers should put foreshadowing in a story for a plot twist to make sense in the story and to feel gratifying to an audience.
You: writers should plan a plot twist in to their story so that it’s a cohesive part of the narrative, ie: have it make sense for the characters motives and personality, ie: foreshadowing
I suppose the confusion here might be that I am using “foreshadowing” to mean clues in the characters/narrative that aren’t obvious on a first reading but jump out on a second reading and reinforce that the plot was always going that way. Now that I think about it that might not be the definition of foreshadowing.
I would also love a video on this!
The Spiderman Homecoming one is my favorite, when I first saw that my heart stopped, and all the way until he leaves the car is one of the most suspenseful scenes in any movie Ive seen
Y’all now I super wish Quicksilver had survived Age of Ultron. What wasted potential.
Kami Lee I never even watched an avengers movie and I wish he lived
If you want something good with Quicksilver, then you should read Remember This Cold by Lise on Archive of Our Own. It’s exactly like the MCU except a bit more queer and Steve/Loki is a thing but it’s done really well sooooo
The Magnus Archives is a masterclass in writing plot twists, particularly retroactive plot twists. I've listened to the show twice, and it was fun the first time to see standalone stories and then be shocked when the bigger picture is revealed and fun the second time to notice all of the events that were foreshadowed hundreds of episodes in advance. The show is filled with weird details that are innocuous and forgettable the first time through and turn out to be plot relevant and intentional pieces of the narrative.
I was just about to make this comment!!
Ikr
SPOILERS FOR TMA
I remember being intrigued but also a tiny bit disappointed by the reveal of the entities in the season 2 finale because I was excited to see how all the details from the previous episodes came together, and the pantheon felt like 14 different answers. The S4 finale, however, got me that interconnectedness I missed from the S2 finale when it was revealed that the whole plot up to that point was basically Elias’ secret plan to get Jon marked by all 14 of them without actually killing him, and how it only reveals that once he’s won.
Tma is something that you need to listen to at least twice to get the full experience.
@@MothpuffListening to it the first time. Did not expect stuff from the literal first episode to come back later.
a story that has several cases of "defying expectations" is also Good Omens (book or tv show) because the story is about *avoiding* a war rather than *winning* a war. I am not going to say too much (even if the book is almost 30 years old) but that distinction alone manages audienses expectation so well that what should be "anti-climatic" ends up being a "relief" as you are on the protagonists side from the get go.
The show is another example that not everything with fantastical elements needs to be an action show as it is more comedic and heart warming than serious and gritty; it feels like a breath of fresh air in comparison to everything else around it.
Good Omens is such a good story!
Was that one The Nice & Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter?
Yeah, read that years ago. Only once, though, which is weird for me. First Neil Gaiman I read, tho not, by far the first Terry Pratchett. Great story, though in my opinion not as compelling as "American Gods."
I thought for sure you'd talk about "Soul mates but for murder" trope. You bring it up literally any time Transformers mentioned.
Plot twist: we're talking about Plot Twists
I just found it annoying as I don’t care for or like most of the content by blue. Nothing wrong with the man, but very much not my cup of tea
* reads the words "soulmates but for murder" *
* thinks about hannibal *
* cries *
Expectations: Subverted.
Yes please
soulmates but for murder? my friend, we have a word for that where I come from
“If you tell people that a bomb will go off in 10 minutes and then a clown stabs the hero....”
So... how Jason Todd becomes the Redhood?
No, that’s ridiculous!
A clown beat him with a crow bar.
BRO I CHOKED READING THIS LMFAO
I'm trying to write a story with a massive plot bombshell at the end. I was worried for a really long time about "wait, what if they figure it out too early?" but Red, you've soothed my worries. All that matters is that the plot twist changes the direction of the story and is appropriately hinted at.
Quicksilver's wasted potential is also a pretty good example of why killing off characters is a bad idea. Yeah there are times when it makes sense for a character to be killed, especially in a self-contained work where sequels won't be an issue. But the entirety of Quicksilver's potential was cashed in for a moment of ... what, exactly?
Also, suppose Quicksilver hadn't been outright killed, but merely grievously wounded. Clinging to life, in a coma, still stuck in a coma even at the end of the movie. That's a little less emotionally impactful than him dying, but it leaves the possibility of him coming back. And there are plot possibilities there too: what if Wanda can bring him out of the coma with her powers but there is a price to be paid? What if a bad guy is willing to bring him back but Wanda has to do his bidding? What if he wakes up but his powers are just a shade of what they once were?
Every story has rewatch value when you can't remember anything.
I was born with pretty harsh memory issues and it's not uncommon for me to reread a book and only realize it during the final climax. A small silver lining.
I've seen VLD Like 7 times and only remember character names and small bits of the plot.
@@williamjenkins4913 that’s…. kind of amazing. i love that😟
@@joe-qc3ff I would recommend TIGER TIGER! I think that has the record for most rereadings before I realized. It's scifi Count of Monte Cristo.
On the flip side I sometimes get lost and scared in my own house. Like I said a small silver lining.
@@williamjenkins4913 I wanted to make an Alzheimer joke, but now I don't think that I'll be able to go through with it...
Cant believe no one commented about Attack on Titan. The plot twist with Reiner and Bertholt being the Armoured and Colossal Titans was really impactful, and upon second viewing, you can see all the clues leading up to it that you could've put together yourself all before the reveal.
Not everyone is a fucking weabo
"who is that guy?" "It's johnson smiiith, y'know, the CEO from the beginning of the movie, remeber?" "ooooohhhhh, oh yeah, yeah ok"
Take your like xD ProZD "surprise villain reveals in animated movies" quality, very accurate big hero 6 critique xD
“Bet ya didn’t expect him, to be the, bad guy.” “Who is this guy again” “Johnson Smith” “Oh yeah, I love that guy...” “CEO of Johnson-“ “yeah that’s really- something”
Damn, I remember the times when everyone in the fandom called those “Rose Quartz is Actually Pink Diamond” theorists crazy 🙃🙃🙃
I must shamefully admit that I was one of them.
Though my only issue with this twist is that I’d like to know how Pink could maintain a new shape for so long.
@@animeotaku307 Diamond, plus she didn't need to maintain it all the time before her "shattering" after that she just reformed as Rose Quartz.
I still maintain that just because theorists got it right does not mean they were good theorists. There were people who did not believe that because they were expecting the show to go down a darker route. instead of Steven is a diamond so almost everything is actually fine now.
@@phantom-ri2tg It's more that they didn't get a lot of details of what happened right, heck, I remember the inconsistencies of many "Rose is PD" theories were the reason I didn't give them much weight. I recently rewatched the entire show and it's quite clear that a lot of details about what really happened were locked in early on (heck, that "I'm not a real person" was already powerful, now it hits like a sledgehammer) even when they weren't sure gems needed to eat or not (the infamous "I like pie!" from Pearl).
I honestly only thought they were the same because they were pink. The show is not subtle at all with the fact that everything pink is related to Rose Quartz.
I love how you didn't mention what is probably the most famous plot twist of all time: "No, I am your father"
“Couple problems, and by a couple, I mean: WOW”
I laughed so hard at that
quicksilver was my favorite character, i think they made him op, then went “oh shit too op” and killed him.
Considering that everyone has this reaction in watching all the X-men Quicksilver clips on TH-cam... not wrong
To be fair, it's hard to balance the powers of speedsters.
@@theodoreshisler9713 yeah i think they did a good job balancing Evan’s just having him being a larger than life Ferris beuler character who doesn’t really care
It's more likely that they only got him for the single movie and knew they couldn't keep him, so they needed a reason. And yeah, outright killing him is the easiest way to do it.
Even in comics, super-speed ought to be the power that wins every time, but usually doesn't.
I think there is one subtle weakness to super-speed that accounts for why it fails so often: because speedsters can either be operating in super-speed mode, OR they can be operating at normal human speeds to interact with normal humans. They can't do both, and when they're at human speed, they aren't functionally bulletproof. If you want to defeat a speedster, give them a reason to talk to you, and then have a sniper waiting across the street.
*Sees prowler in the thumbnail* all right let’s do this one last time
So, the end of Fantastic Beasts 2 hits every single one of the points on what makes a bad twist, yeah?
What ending?
The movie series is trash, sooo what's the point?
Nah, the first one was very good, the second one a huge letdown. Hope the third one redeems the series.
Both of those were not good....but....the second was straight up Mess (literally)
@@darksev.6468 the first one was so cute and fun with, imo, good characterization. I loved the main cast and their adventures. I relate to the way Newt acted and spoke and everything. Some people may not have thought that the story was epic or anything, but it doesn't _need_ to be. A smaller story about a guy losing track of his magical creatures can be really fun too.
The second movie ruined literally everything good about the first one. That movie can burn.
The best advice I heard about plot twists is that there has to be enough elements that 7-15% of the audience can put it together on the first experience watching/reading/playing before the twist happens based on their own intelligence and story hints, and the rest put it together as soon as the twist occurs from the foreshadowing you've been dropping through the story, otherwise it's a bad twist.
To be fair to age of ultron, the whole "didnt see that coming" thing was a running joke between hawkeye and quicksilver
To be extra fair, Quicksilver is mentioned in Civil War as the reason Hawkeye sides with Cap and frees Wanda. "Besides, (glances at Wanda) I owe a debt."
tfw when you literally die to goof on a middle-aged man.
@@pretsal4955 hahahaha, commitment to the meme
It was a running joke, but breaking the fourth looking into the camera to say that to the audience wasn't.
@@themantyf1116 too soon.
I agree with this, but still think spoilers rob the initial viewing from me. It's like you only get a second viewing instead of both a first *and* second.
Agreed. Yes, having a spoiler embargo makes it feel like the movie might only be worth one watch. But if spoilers were allowed to filter out, people would have been aware of so many cool and heartbreaking scenes.
A personal first viewing will always be infinitely better then someone else’s summarized second hand re-telling of a good movie.
Radical concept: Maybe, if you do not want content spoiled for you, then do not venture into threads, videos and reviews talking about the content.
@@MadnerKami Simple enough except with something like Endgame, people were literally spoiling things in corners of the internet that had nothing to do with Endgame. Do you suggest people literally become unable to use the internet, or do we suggest people stop being arse wipes and stop spoiling things?
MadnerKami I had endgame spoiled for me in the comments of a history meme subreddit
The flaw with "good stories have rewatch value so spoilers shouldn't be a problem" is that stories have more emotional impact when you first experience them. I know many people, myself included, that wish they could forget their favorite book so they could experience it for the first time again.
Not a surefire way of doing it is that I stay far away from the community of my favorite show, try not to even think about it and wait like a few years for me to rewatch. But it either fails or you forget to even watch it.
i agree but i also think it's pretty important to have a reader go "that was AWESOME" and reread their favorite part over and over
*_"How many Plot Twists do you want?"_*
*Hajime Isayama:* Yes
Is that the Attack on Titan doofus? Oh good, it is.
"How many plot twists do you need to keep the story from ending when it should have?"
HI: ALL of them.
@@tskmaster3837 And when that would be?
@@kara-zul2951 Serialization is a cruel thing. The story should have ended once all the identities of human titans came out and were stopped so I'd say before the genre shift. But the series was too popular so...
I loved the series up to the fight with the Female Titan but I enjoyed the series less and less as the author kept pulling out plot twist after plot twist. Once Titanism became a mutable superpower rather than a last ditch monster power... what you can call "Plot Armor Titan".... the show went from great action horror to cliche shonen.
@@tskmaster3837 Do you read the manga?
I'm not trying to be one those annoying people that shout "Oh, you don't read the manga? Than fuck you"
I just want to give my opinion without spoiling it to you or someone else
(Probably later, going to take a nap now)
@@tskmaster3837 Anw, I'll try to make this spoiler free.
Both as an anime fan and a writer, I really liked the turns and shifts in tone that AoT have had.
Like, all the politic stuff envolving the royal family and the Eldia X Marley thing that's revealed at the end of S3.
I won't deny the plot ex machinas, nor the pacing problems and some straight bs that happens later on in the manga, but overall I think that the depth of the themes explored and all the moraly grey situation in which the characters are forced into are worthy enough for me to ignore/excuse those problems.
Just my opinion tho, I can see why people would dislike it
The plot twist was actually the friends we made along the way.
That's beautiful
The best plot twists are the ones that are shocking, but upon rewatch, you notice bits of foreshadowing-that just make you laugh to yourself if you’re showing it to someone else for their first time.
Me when I saw the recommendation: "Hm... if this is a Trope Talk on plot twists... maybe it has its own plot twist too!"
*notices Blue instead of Red in the intro*
"NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!"
I feel like I am the only person in the comments that mentions this but Jordan Peele's movies have plot twists too. Retroactive to be specific. Rose being a part of the family's plan to use Chris as a body for them is a good twist that makes us rewatch the movie and look at it at a whole new perspective. Us and NOPE also has good plot twists as well.
For the next trope talk can you do breaking the fourth wall? If you aren’t too busy
I hope if she does that, she mentions Kid Icarus Uprising. That game has nearly no forth wall.
Yes. Yes your dog is adorable
*Subtitles:* [plot twists]
*Me:* _When you laughed at deaf people memes but you realized YOU are deaf._
What a twist!
Oh lol
When you laugh at fat people but then realize you are also a fat person.
Predictable twists could still be really exciting if they make a lot of sense and audience became invested in the post twist plot. 'It finally happened' with 'i knew it all along' combo is strong. (Dabi is Touya is an example, maybe to much build up but internet went crazy twice (rip) for reveal and pseudo reveal)
An other thing with Signs. Humidity in the air means their skin would have come off just walking around.
The "aliens" in signs are actually demons. It's the story of a preacher disillusioned with god who slowly regains their faith. They burn because it's "holy water." At the end, a newscast reveals that humans discovered the secret to fighting back against the monsters in three cities in the middle east, alluding to Jerusalem, Mecca, and Bethlehem.
I guess. War of the Worlds is considered a classic and is basically the same idea.
@@derekeidum1307 That's a theory, not an actual thing in the plot.
Let us not forget the best plot twists in meme history:
“But it was me! DIO!”
“No one expects the Spanish Inquisition”
“No U”
“Ligma”
“Parry this you ***king casual”
DIO's wasn't a plot twist though...
You thought it was a plot twist... BUT IT WAS ME! DIO!
@@skyblueblazes9332 OMAE WA MOU SHINDERU
NANI!?!?!??
But I have the high ground, Anakin!
@@cora2828 *turns around in egg shaped chair*
Kono Dio Da!
I actually disagree with the idea that we should pull back on having things like week-long complete anti-spoiler campaigns. The idea that a story can be just as good, when written properly, whether or not you know the plot twist is not mutually exclusive to the idea that a first experience is still an important one. I can't speak for everyone of course, just me; I despise spoilers not because I don't have faith in a story to be interesting even when the plot twist is known, but because your first viewing or first play is something untouchable. Unless you have the power of selective memory loss, you will never be able to experience something for the first time ever again. The main idea here is that if a story is spoiled for you, the ability to go into something blind was completely stripped away from you never to get it back.
Sometimes trying to catch a plot twist beforehand can be fun in itself. Like in Danganronpa, it's incredibly fun to look at all the clues and piece together what happened before even starting the trial portion of the game. If the murder is spoiled for you, you can still have a great experience of looking at things retroactively, but you'll never get the fun and exciting challenge of trying to be the sleuth yourself. Replaying Danganronpa is still a great story experience (I hope to god nobody replays it for the gameplay, because boy were the minigames dull, forced and full of nonsense), but that first play is a completely different experience. Obviously it's an extreme example since the game is literally a mystery game, but a similar feeling can happen with any genre of even non-interactive storytelling.
And then the last point, tied to the fact that you can only experience something for the first time once, is that if a plot twist is spoiled for you, then you'll never really know how it would have impacted you during the first watch or playthrough. I go through a whole movie thinking a certain way, the plot twist shows that I was wrong and actually makes me feel bad for thinking the first way, and gives me a bit more nuance when I look at things in real life. If I knew the twist from the beginning, I'd never have that lead-up, I'd never have my own views challenged because they never had time to build up in the first place.
TLDR: We shouldn't be relaxed when it comes to spoilers. Good stories absolutely hold their own even if you know every twist, but seeing something for the first time is a completely unique experience that it is entirely impossible to replicate.
The main issue and discussion with spoiler embargos has come about because the companies enforcing it are basically trying to use it to create false hype for what often times becomes a sub-par product. They are feeding off of our desire to be surprised, then monkey's-paw twisting it into making us think just because there is things to spoil the movie will be good. Instead a lot of the time the movie is lackluster and not worth a second viewing, but because of the embargo it also ties the hands of reviewers cause they cannot be trusted not to spoil anything, thus are barred from actually making legitimate reviews. Endgame worked out fine, but I see this as a dangerous trend developing.
@@clayxros576 This happened with 'Ma' but the thing is this only works with BIG Hollywood films, something like 'Ma' wasn't as big as 'Avengers Endgame' so there was no urgency to go see the film and avoid spoilers. I believe 'The bigger the movie' = 'Bigger effect'
If people want to look up spoilers that should be their decision but the problem has become that spoilers for big events like Endgame have become unavoidable without some kind of embargo. If you go anywhere on the internet you risk seeing an unwanted spoiler. For example I was watching Flash and the season finally came out a day later where I live. in the 16 or so hours between it's airing in the US and me getting to watch it and despite actively avoiding spoilers I saw the answer to the villain reveal in a thumbnail. Stuff like happens a lot and if you can't go watch the movie the night it came out because you have other commitments like work or just can get opening night tickets and you want to avoid spoilers you ether have to hope there's an embargo or avoid doing things you enjoy for however long it takes to get to see it.
@Bob Bobbertson What?
@@incognitoburrito6020 I remember doing something like what Bob seems to be talking about after seeing Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2 in theaters. My coworkers and I were discussing it in broad terms to avoid spoilers for those who hadn't seen it. I talked about how it seemed to make a habit of taking the popular stuff from the original and turning it up to 11, so it kind of felt like it was pushing itself down your throat. I summed it up with: "Basically, it has a really big ego."
Those who had seen the movie knew exactly what I was talking about. Those who hadn't thought I was being poetic.