My problem with Tai Chi combat forms
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- There's an article that goes with this - it might be shorter and clearer than my 5 minute deeply moving chat... www.i-bagua.co...
You can find a free simple Tai Chi course here - no combative use explained...But the possibility is in there....
learn.i-bagua.... -sin up and you'll get some other training offers and ideas
Alternatively go straight to the motherlode of Gao style Bagua - or Xingy foundations which go into more combative detail - ideas, ways to train, applications...
learn.i-bagua....
learn.i-bagua....
and don't get too serious
Good article. Reminds me of one of Bruce Lee's statements, "Trying to learn to fight without sparring is like trying to learn to swim on dry land." It isn't about slow or fast forms, large or small frame. I think those ideas are a blend of marketing and misconceptions. Sort of like the joke one of my staff gave me one time, "I know Tai Chi. We can take this outside but it is going to have to be in slow motion." We can practice slow or fast for different purposes but combat skill development requires simulated combat at minimum.
Guns and pepper spray, among many other tools, pretty much make traditional martial arts impractical for self defense. But guns and pepper spray cannot transform someone the way traditional martial arts, and especially internal arts, are able to. Long term practice of internal arts can transform a chaotic mind that cannot cope with stressful situations into a mind that remains calm and centered and flexible in dealing with difficult situations. Such qualities are extremely useful in everyday life. The problem with MMA and boxing is that they make a person too aggressive. They are very useful for self defense and take much less time to be able to use than an internal art, but guns and pepper spray are much more effective. Even an old lady can use a gun or pepper spray.
bro u are so smart this was one of the most insightful yt comment of all time.... you are like some kind of socrates or marcus aurelius ♥
@@rman229Actually, what is much more amazing is that you have read every youtube comment posted from all time.
MMA etc MAy make fighters more aggressive, but not necessarily.
In sparring fighters often need to think very coolly and tactically in chaotic situations. It is typically beginners who rely on aggression. All combat sports have a 'chess' element. One of my old bxing partners used to say 'It's chess at 100mph, innit'.
BJJ has this quality in abundance with the sheer variety of entanglements possible, but also moments of stalemate with little movement that allow strategising.
Internal martial artists often only practice their calmness in calm situations - which has the advantage of encouraging a deepening of the state.
Combat athletes get to practice calmness in hot and wild contexts. They also need to constantly run a line between winning/playing hard and not breaking/injuring their training partners.
There IS an issue that fighters apply their tools inappropriately, the more 'invested' they are in their skills the more they will default to using them. This can lead to stabbings where walking away was possible. But this is not an issue limited to combat athletes. It is usualy addressed by scenario training - which is rarely an element of MMA or IMA
@@EdwardH Thank you for correcting my misconception.
People who are good at talking don't need the alphabet nor grammar
As TaiChi is not used by MMA then it is seems it is not useful for real fighting. Similarly TaiChi fighters simply revert to kickboxing. Therefore all talk of "fighting" means a certain culture of people who try to make applications with TaiChi and learn through them, but are not actually fighting.
If TaiChi was ever a deadly fighting art it could only conceivably be through "magic power".
A TaiChi means literally the flow of the forces of Yin and Yang then this is likely.
To learn such a thing is almost impossible for modern people who loathe all such ideas.
The name Taijiquan is an idea, and the translation you give is a little simplistic.
Chinese martial arts names don't have to be taken as prescriptions for every aspect of use either - consider the number of styles named after animals for example.
Taiji fighters kickbox at range, but grapple and throw close up. This is true of all Chinese styles (when not using weapons).
I know several people who compete or have competed using Taiji in full contact contexts (and won) whether sanda or MMA. I know still more who have used their skills in situations that are not sporting.
What makes the greatest difference to the functionality of the Tai Chi is how it is trained - some people train to fight others don't.
Dear Sir,
As you know, Sir, masters have always been searching some ways of preserving their knowledge often in boooks mostly written in CAPITAL letters and depicted in static positions.
So, forms came handy mainly when teaching beginners the ALPHABETS of Karate, which were practiced dynamic and later on in applicative demos, called BUNKAI. This phase already involves that siutational awarences, personal fitness and timing you have correctly amphasized as the requisites of proper use.
What I really do not understand you, talking for five minutes/out of roughly 6 against forms, and ultimately bringing up the simplest forms of simplest styles to train or so.
With over 30 year of active Karate, I ´d rather remain with Kata, is an accepted tool of forming the propers stances and basics actions, enabling some tailoring to the practitionerś physical sturcuture and mental needs to remain fan of the style chosen or admired.
Pauol,68, retired instructor of Goju-ryu Karate
Thanks for your comment Paul. My point was not that forms are bad, but that they are not a substitute for bunkai (why capitals?) or kumite if the goal is combative skill.
The other point is that people market forms as 'special combat forms' which are often just a slightly different way of performing a form. They imply in doing so that the form is the key ingredient for combat, and that the uncooperative partner practice that brings forms to life is unnecessary.
As I understand it within the Okinawan styles the idea of working on each kata for several years before moving on to the next was not solo practice, but an exploration of how to use each movement in different ways with a partner and of how to develop the power for each movement through supplementary exercises and the use of equipment.
"and ultimately bringing up the simplest forms of simplest styles to train or so." I didn't understand this sentence of yours
The systems that I practice have extensive forms - dozens in our Baga and Xingyiquan, but that does not mean people who practice simple forms (or no forms) can be combatively competent.
I am sorry if that was not clear to you from the video.
Forms can help, having the right idea on how to practice (the form) and you don't need to spare all the time, and in my case no sparring at all. Well for me a combat form (as I learned form a champion fighter) should be specific to a real fight / defense situation, which means that some movements may need to be removed, and again how you practice the form. From competition to real life self defense, I've done well for myself. Preparing to make a few vds soon (taijiquan & bagua zhang, + shuaijiao). Peace
I don't disagree that forms can be useful, just that they are oversold on this specific subject.
The thing is Fred you came to these forms with combat/sparring/fight experience already. You had something solid and in your body/imagination to work with.
Sometimes I ask student to imagine pulling on a rope for various movements. It's clear from their hand/body position that they have never pulled a rope, let alone traded blows or grappled.
Many/most people coming to Tai Chi just don't have the physical references that a form can polish, but not replace.
I feel like it works both ways. Doing the form correctly is a great exercise for health, however, to do the form well enough to get the health benefits, a knowledge of the applications is what is needed to get the postures right
Should have opened by saying that this is a great video
Thank you for the compliment and the comment.
I used to think the same about applications and health, but I no longer really do.
The applications themselves are not really health-generating, rather the alignments and direction forces that they depend on lead to benefits.
As such what counts is the correct movement in relation to (imaginary) forces. For some people imagining applications will be the easiest way to achieve this,.
For others it might be simpler to go with something like 'there is force in the direction of travel, there is a balancing force in the opposite direction and a potential to change to all other angles.'
This is a bit of a simplification of course, but it is enough to give good changes in movement quality.
i didn't pay you the fullest of my attention but this question of whether Tai chi can be used in combat is what i want to figure out for myself and for my focus of it, hence websearching, hence being suggested this video. and i basically got what you meant, though i'll rewatch. cool hat, thanks for the nudge into expansion
Glad you liked it and the hat. My head doesn't do UV very well. If you have questions I can help you with, you know where to find me.
30 percent of tang Soo do is yang style tai chi; master wong shows good Chen and yang tai chi application; but you need a instructor teach this; and a partner to train with; to install muscle memory techniques.
Yes. Taijiquan has been the base of my practice for some time, a long with Bagua and Shuai jiao. I've had competition experience as well as real life experience. I did well for myself in all situations. I'll be doing a video or two on using Taijiquan coming soon.
Peace