Niche Zero In Depth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มี.ค. 2022
- Complete teardown of a Niche Zero #CoffeeGrinder. See the component quality, build quality, and mechanical design. The #NicheZero is criticized for being too lightly built. Is it really? You're about to find out!
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www.pexels.com/@pressmaster - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Errata: I meant to say "a tenth of a millimeter or so" at 06:02 Bloody decimals :)
Bloody imperial units :)
Great!! You are doing an awasome job, going MUCH further than every other "coffee enthusiasm" here in youtube.
Thank you, and welcome aboard :)
I appreciate how much time and resource and R&d you put in! Note that you tear down the gear box and showed us mortals the craftsmanships inside. The amount of dedication is phenomenal.
Thank you :)
I genuinely believe this is one of highest quality channels for coffee on youtube. No brand worship or unnecessary bs. Your subscriber count is gonna skyrocket one of these days!
Thanks. I do try :)
It’s also very entertaining and funny at times!
This is your wheelhouse. No one, breaks down products like you do. Couldn’t love these videos more if I tried.
Wow, thank you :)
Thank you for your in depth review and the thoroughness in all you do on this channel. I really enjoy your videos!
Thanks. My pleasure!
Amazing, wonderful and superbly done video beyond measure. Thank you, for all the excellent and hard work you do for us coffee lovers. Greatly appreciated.
Thank you, too :)
@@wiredgourmet your welcome sir
A superb technical analysis of the grinder and saves me tearing down mine from curiosity. Thank you!
Great post! More product reviews (not just in coffee space) need to do this. It shows effort and real use.
Thank you and welcome aboard :)
I found this clear, concise and deep enough for the intended purpose. I think you covered what matters. Well done!
You can really see the design thinking behind the Niche. It's a well thought out piece of machinery.
Definitely :)
The most detailed oriented, efficiently delivered, hi quality content. Great Job. Impressed...just subscribed.
Thanks :)
You're like a less abrasive, equally knowledgeable AvE! Thanks so much for sharing your investigation!
Thanks. My pleasure :)
It happens to me to know some euthusiasms just like you using same tools for measuring and adjustment. Good job done. Nice video.
Thanks :)
I own this grinder for 3 years now and still love it.
Thank you for your video, it was interesting.
I have 57,3mm portafilter from home Lelit, dosing cup really fits unpleasantly too tight when used directly, but I am using dosing ring because of WDT, so this issue is easily fixed. 🙂
Im machining an espresso pot right now and when I saw the dial indicator in your thumbnail I was immediately intrigued.
third!!
"focus you f...! " I love that hint😂
BOLGR? :)
Oh my! What a well-rounded review! Admire your Mechanical, engineering, and language art skills!
Where can I find a Niche Zero? The only place I found is eBay, which I dont really trust.
Nichecoffee.com
Thanks for the video, the Niche really seems like the best BIFL easy to use home grinder. There are other grinders that might have slightly better performance but you’re trading lots of quirks, ease of use and build quality for that.
im impressed by the slight hate on the dosing cup, so many people enjoy it very much especially for its size.. all in all very nice video, thank you
Very interesting. My Niche Zero is a couple of years old now, never given me any trouble and a pleasure to use. Nice to know it really is well built on the inside.
I'm pretty sure you'll tire of it before it wears out :)
@@wiredgourmet Yes I probably will.
Also, I have a 2 inch neodymium magnet in the base of mine, and I use a Weber Blind Shaker: Blind Shaker has a magnetic center post and it works a treat.
TH-cam is indeed trying to keep this channel a secret. I'm subscribed with the "bell" notification turned on, but did not get any notification.....
I knew it !
Great video! Thank you for the extensive tear down.
Glad you enjoyed it!
When you think about it, a lot of large youtube channels posting "reviews" are really just posting adverts - there's very little testing, analysis, comparison with competitors, evaluation of key review principles like value, build quality, or suggested improvements. This channel is a total exception to that - nice to see well rounded analytical reviews!
Thanks for noticing and welcome to the community :)
Great review thank you. High quality production. Subscribed
coffee, mechanical design critique, and dial indicators? You have my interest! Great review. Lovely to see the mechanism details. That planetary gearbox is quite beefy!
Thanks and welcome to the community :)
We need more reviewers like you. Thank you for this.
I appreciate that :)
Nice job, very thorough and covered all the key points.
Thanks. I'm glad you liked it :)
Great video!
Thank you from Portugal 😁👍
Thank you too, from Ireland :)
Holy crap, high quality content!
Since we now know this is an AC motor thanks to your tear down, it'd be interesting to hook a variable transformer up to it to reduce RPM down from ~300RPM to 100RPM to see how it impacts grind quality. Amazon sells them and I could send you one of mine if you wanted to do the tests. Thanks!
It is always comforting to be introduced to somebody that is also suffering from teminal OCD.
...WHO is also suffering. OCD? what OCD? I can quit whenever I please...
@@wiredgourmet right
Excellent presentation! No nonsense, to the point, expert point of view.
Glad you liked it!
It's kind of unusual to see the proper plastics and metals picked where appropriate. So many products are designed as if steel is steel, or plastic is plastic, completely blind to the tradeoffs of each grade or variety.
I think the only material choice I'd have changed is the wood, but I don't know what I'd change it to. Wood is so particular to your locality; I don't think there's anything as water-resistant that'd be as widely available.
They definitely put some thought into materials :)
Thanks - I hadn't seen the inside of the motor before. I understand you comparing consumer grade drills to the motor and reasoning nylon gears are 'fine' ... but I've gone through several hand drills in my life. I appreciate your video - helped me stop drooling over it... now if only I can stop dreaming of an 83mm conical grinder to replace my Kplus. haha
Wonderful video
Thank you! Cheers!
Good to see you channel your inner AvE around the 9.45 mark.
BOLGR, eh?
@@wiredgourmet my new favouite teardown series
Absolutely love this thank you
Thanks for such a great, in-depth review!
My pleasure :)
Here to comment and like; can’t wait to watch later
This is another Game of Thrones channel for me.
Hope you enjoy :)
excellent review, thanks for the break down!
Thanks. My pleasure!
Again, I love your videos.
Truly some of the best specialty coffee content on TH-cam. No hipster nonsense or BS. Really refreshing.
I have a question: When you use silicone tape on your Niche which way do you wind it around the threads? I’ve been using it on mine for a few months now because the adjustment collar started wandering while grinding. I contacted the people at Niche and they suggested sanding the top of the burr carrier to create more friction with the underside of the collar. This helped a bit but not 100%. I started using plumbers tape, that finally stopped the wandering, however now when I take it apart to clean the chamber the tape is bunched up and comes apart in small pieces. I’m worried this isn’t good for the threads. Because you have to turn the collar clockwise to first tighten it after cleaning, and then turn it counter clockwise to bring it to your desired setting I don’t know which way I should orient the tape. Perhaps I need to buy thicker tape.
Any advice?
Thanks again.
Cheers.
Sincerely,
Paul Jackson
Nova Scotia, Canada.
I use thin Teflon (PTFE) tape and wind it 2 or so times. I leave the end trailing when I tighten it. It packs into the threads well, and never unwinds or slides when I loosen. I find it works for a month or so. Are you perhaps using too much? You only want enough drag to prevent it moving without permission.
@@wiredgourmet
I’ve been using one full wind around the threads being careful not to let it overlap as I thought the thickness of two layers would be too much. I’ll try two winds pulling it tightly.
Any advice which way to wind the tape?
Holding the collar upside down I wind the tape clockwise around the treads.
Thanks again!
Much appreciated.
Thank you Tom, very informative and in depth video.
Glad you enjoyed it :)
The voice-over is great. I think it's the guy who does the corporate training videos that haven't been updated since the 90s.
Great video, subscribed! Would love to see you do a DF64.
Great video! What’s the thread pitch on the grind adjustment ring? I’ve been wondering how much each tick mark theoretically changes the grind size.
Thanks. Looks like 1.75 mm to me.
5 tenths total runout on a sliding fit bearing is considered over spec by most for this market. It often requires special attention by the machinist. Many of these parts are mated and probably custom machined, justifying the price. This explains why they can't keep up with production demand. It seems you're buying a meticulously made, custom assembled machine instead of a mass produced production device. Having worked in aerospace and military, this fit and finish is incredible to see in a consumer product and quite rare actually. That's probably why it's such a popular grinder. I've been holding off buying one and looking at cheaper alternatives but this video had made me understand the value of this grinder. Not only will it function well but it will do so for a long time with repeatable results. It's something I can probably pass down to one of my sons should they wish it.
Great video as usual!
Do you know that David Schomer is using Niche Zeros in all of his Espresso Vivace locations in Seattle? He’s fitted them with hoppers and timers. Pretty interesting giving that he makes hundreds of shots per day at his shops.
I love my Niche!
The only issue I’ve had is the adjustment started wondering while grinding. Niche told me to rough up the top of the burr carrier to create more friction with the adjustment collar. This made it a bit better but didn’t fix it completely. Silicone tape on the threads does make the adjustment stay put while grinding. I wasn’t sure if it was a good idea to use it until I saw that you did the same thing. Great minds, right?
Thanks again for your incredible videos!
Cheers.
Thanks :) Do me a favor please and just edit out that link. TY in advance :)
Thank you again for such a good video. Very useful. I use a quality hand grinder at the moment. I do use the 9Barista expresso maker for my mid morning coffee. The rest of my coffee is a V60 which I enjoy mostly. I would certainly consider the Niche should I buy a machine thank you Love and peace. Tim
Thanks man. You know, I chose to use my hand grinder with the 9bar in an upcoming video because I thought it would be a really logical pair -- price and performance wise :)
You have been lucky. My Niche was one of the first to be delivered . It was used lightly for just under 4 years before failing with a burnt-out motor and a fried PCB. I never misused it or let it run on for a long time. (Although there is no auto cut-off feature to prevent that). So it has cost me £125 a year to own the Niche. Looks aren't everything. Durability is more important. Will I buy another Niche? Hmmmm..
It would be interesting to know if other early adopters have had a similar experience to mine.
Excellent information - thank you!
Thanks. Glad it was helpful!
Would love to see your POV on a DF64 someday!
If enough people ask, I will probably have to do it :)
Oh this would be a curious experiment with the Key as well! I have one that works well but some claim there are issues, so it might be luck of the draw
Interesting observation. I might look into it. Manufacturing inconsistency is kind of a bad sign in itself :) Worth comparing to the Deva Kopi when it's available, and I will be getting a Lagom Mini fairly soon -- all cousins, so keep in touch :)
Would love a similar evaluation of the Weber Key Grinder!
I will ask them for a loaner. Let's see how confident they are :)
Cheers I am edging ever closer to buying one.
so much better in person too. i hated the look but eventually caved and got one. Blew me away. sold it cause I still couldn't handle the looks. finally found that laube coffee made a solid metal base for it that removes all the wood aspects and ordered a new niche. comes next week couldn't be more excited.
If you're doing espresso or Turkish, you absolutely will not regret it :)
Great video!
You mentioned another video about pour over but I'm struggling to find it? Coudl you add a card or a link in the description pls?
Thanks. Here you go: th-cam.com/video/hyHAOkH2tMY/w-d-xo.html BTW, I did add a card, but some browsers don't show it. Weird.
@@wiredgourmet Awesome thanks, that was a super quick reply!
I'm 1 week into the Niche with some good results but I need to refine the workflow as it's much messier than the Sage Pro currently.
Loved the AvE reverence ☺️
Glad you noticed. BOLGR?
I am the grindfather and I said it before, this is the best espresso grinder. YES!
Thanks for the teardown! Interesting that you don't like the dosing cup. I find it has minimal static issues and it fits my portafilters beautifully. The dosing cup also fits under the grinder really nicely too. You can bump the grinder back and forth on its feet to clear the last half gram or so of grinds and it doesn't fall out and make a mess.
Perhaps mine is defective, or damaged in shipping? But it truly disappoints :)
I did that with mine (the rocking back and forth.) I'm wondering if that was a factor in the grinder's demise due to burn-out...
Excellent, as always
Thank you! Cheers!
Thanks for this and the V60 Voodoo: Resurrection! videos. Not sure if there is an interest in a similar video regarding the Lagom Mini with std 38mm burrs for use as a V60 only grinder. Comparison against the NZ for V60 use would be an added bonus.
I'm going to contact Lagom about a loaner so we'll see :)
Orphan Espresso recently released a basic model, much more price accessible, as well as an OG model that makes it much trivial to grind espresso and mokapot grinds without losing your dialled in grind adjustment. Have you looked into them?
I'm also kind of curious, what did/do you do for a living?
5 to 1 he's an engineer of some stripe...
I will be looking into the new Orphans, and the new Mazzer hand grinder, and the Lagom Mini over the next several months. Millwright :)
Can a dimmer run with this motor to reduce rpm?
Another Great Video.. Whats your background? Engineer..?
Thanks. Industrial mechanic (millwright), some manufacturing, and later tech journo.
Hi! Excelente review ! But I'm a kinda puzzled because in the motor was written 80 watts (09:55) but in the bottom label it is rated 170 ~ 180 Watts ! ( 10:52) Something wrong with specifications.
Excellent review!
Thank you :)
Hey bro, you said that you're using niche for Turkish grind size, but do you compare to the mignon specialita in Turkish grind quality?
Am planning to buy the mignon turbo (65mm) or niche for espresso and turkish. Any ideas? Consumption is around 4-6 cups a day. Thanks in advance
Either one will serve you well. The Zero wins on ease of use. Practically dials itself in. Eurekas can be fiddly to dial in, esp if the burrs are out of alignment. Usually, they're fine. The Turbo and Specialita probably have identical burr patterns, just different sizes, so the T will be faster, but taste and grind quality will be the same. How much does speed matter in a home device? The S is like 200 euro cheaper. I'm not sure I see any meaningful differences between the Turbo and the XL except a few style points and accessories.
Hi TWG, have you heard of the urbanic 070 flat burr espresso grinder? I believe it's made in Korea. I would love if you could review it, or any feedback you might have on it.
Thank you
No, but I will check it out :)
Thank you for another informative video. I have an espresso machine but it would only be a weekend experience... I don't have a ton of space either so I'm trying to find the most versatile grinder that would be easy to maintain (i hate messy grinders) as a long-term investment. I was going to bite the bullet and buy Niche but now I'm on the fence because of the Lagom Mini. Do you have any opinion on that one?
I will be covering the Lagom Mini alongside the new Mazzer hand grinder in the near future. Maybe keep an eye out for that :)
@@wiredgourmet Thank you. If I'm spending over $150 I want it to be my Standalone grinder especially since I was willing to get the Niche. I'm not a very heavy user so it's difficult to justify that price even though this is an extremely long-term investment so I keep pushing of the purchase of any grinder 😅 then this comes out when I'm finally close to wanting to throw money at the Niche.
Dosing cup was upgraded so not sure if this was the old one or new one.
As soon as I saw a test indicator I was like ok, time to sit down.
Great job.
Thank you! Cheers!
Have no idea why im watched this video, because im prefer manual hand grinders (using LIDO 3 and waiting ARCO) :D
But thx for a really precise review of a well made thing.
Do you think the carrier housing and other parts are plastic to reduce static? Anyway, excellent video! I ordered a Niche Zero today ($723.30 w/shipping).
I think it's possible. The housing is alloy, though, with a removable plastic floor piece. I think you'll like the device :)
Whenever i grind any amount of coffee, the calibration changes immediately, the grind i get differentiate in size
I tried greasing the threads as NZ support suggested, but i still have the same problem
Any suggestions?
Make sure the ring burr carrier moves smoothly up and down. If it's binding, that would make your results kinda random. You could also try the PTFE tape that I like to use. Good luck.
This is not in depth. This is Mariana Trench deep! - Measuring the runout of the rotating shaft of a grinder. Brilliant - the idea and the result... Love your view on things!
Great video. I was horrified by the coffee getting everywhere inside the takedown of another popular brand. I've been using a Niche for several weeks, and get little static with the beans I am using. If I am using a 51mm portafilter for low doses, I place a 51mm dosing cup inside the Niche dosing cup and grind into that. Works great with no spill. The Niche dosing cup is left in place to catch any grinds that later drop from static cling. I am very pleased to see that with the Niche the grounds only go where they should. You could also mention the RMP and gearing ratios.
Thanks :)
@@wiredgourmet BTW it is really cold this morning so I can verify that: a) Static does not cause a grounds mess or gross clumping. b) minor wetting of the beans causes the volume of the grounds to be higher coming out of the Niche.
Thanks for this!
My pleasure!
Channeling your inner AVE with the camera focus. 😂
Great videos! Any chance of 9barista super moka pot and DF64 grinder? :~)
9bar vid coming in less than a week. Still undecided about the DF
@@wiredgourmet awesome news, looking forward to it :)
V2 should likely have a bronze thread ring. No galling then! I’m not too worried about it on mine.
Yeah, me neither; a bit of care is all it takes :)
Aren't you concerned about material strain (mainly the plastic parts) from usage over time, which will ultimately impact alignment? I had grinders with plastic parts in the past, starting from my first Imat Lux (basically the same as Lelit PL043), Solis Maestro and Baratza Sette 270. Except IMAT I had mechanical issues along the way.
Not at all. The plastic is well supported; e.g., the bearing carrier lies flat on the metal housing. There are no plastic parts subject to high stress. That's is not true of many devices, but it is here.
Turkish coffee ?! I just ordered one. Had no idea that It can grind so fine. Well I'm not that educated on this grinder, but I will definitely wanted to see how it turns out.
Yeah, you can go finer than the markings. You can tighten the ring until just before the burrs begin to touch. Turkish is "off the scale" but it works just fine.
9:28 - quietly taking a leaf out of somebody else's book, I see. Niche vs. Evil next?
Thanks for the in-depth review!
My pleasure. BOLGR, eh?
From what I see, the product is not that stable design in terms of bearings.
The outer grinder part may fit tightly in its holder preventing it from moving horizontally. However, due to it's play it will still do so a little.
The inner grinder part is only locked in place by 1 bearing. The motor acts as the 2nd bearing which would fix the axle in place. However, the motor is not fixed but flexible anchored. If the motor moves at the base, the axle holding the inner grinder part will rotate slightly at the fixed top bearing moving the inner grinder horizontally versus the outer grinder part.
Apparently, the idea is that the coffee must stabilize the grinder set. But if the consistency of the coffee in the grinding parts in not equal everywhere, the inner part may be pushed off-center. This can also happen if one of the coffee beans is harder than another.
A stable rotation should have 2 hard-fixed bearings where the motor is connected flexible to the fixed axle. In this product, the motor has to be flexible connected as a fixed axle cannot have 3 bearings (2 in the motor and 1 at the top). It would eventually destroy 1 or more bearing(s).
Hence there is probably play in the grinder construction which would influence the grinding size during grinding process.
Is the paddle steel or aluminum?
I didn't know plastic was more durable. I've seen a lot of angry reviews about worn plastic gears for different home grinders. Could it be due to improper use or a defective part?
It's abrasion resistance. Certain grades of plastic are more abrasion resistant than common grades of steel. They're exclusively using normal high-grade nylon completely soaked in grease. The housing appears to be the delrin or acetal resin component, which is a hard, tough plastic--not much different than steel--with extremely low surface friction, much unlike steel or even other plastics. This is a nearly perfect arrangement for a home grinder, and I'd expect it'd last for the lifetime of the motor.
A fully plastic geartrain has the advantage of any misalignment or malformed gear smoothing out safely without technically wearing out. Wear in gears is defined by where the teeth mesh, so the tip smoothing out isn't as big of a deal as the wall of the tooth wearing.
Geartrains that use plastic and metal are a recipe for disaster. While the plastic is more abrasion resistant--assuming the proper grade--the plastic is softer. It will wear first. These mixed-media geartrains are common in industry where the metal component is expensive or hard to replace, and the plastic component becomes a consumable.
Gears in a home grinder are supposed to last the lifetime of the motor. Mixing plastic and metal means the plastic component dies first, dies fast, and functionally trashes the grinder.
@@cheyannei5983 Would this be what happens to the Sette?
My Breville Smart grinder had plastic gears that broke and I replaced the grinder with the Niche. Lucky I didn't know it also had plastic gears or I wouldn't have purchased such an awesome grinder. Thanks for the education on plastic gears.
@@TomJones-tx7pb I'm not familiar with that machine, sorry
Funny, James Hoffmann loves the Niche dosing cup. To each his own I suppose.
Who?
My thoughts exactly! More like, who cares!
@@planetfabulous5833 I guess you do enough to comment.
Little bit of Boltr throw back eh? 😆Coffee loving machinist stuff what's not to like?
BOLGR? :)
Why do haters hate? Simple, their ringleader was given the chance to give input when this was still at design stage, and decided not to. Once launched, he started a one man hate campaign helped by a group of friends on the coffee forum he frequented, and it spread. Odd hey. Despite his dissing, Niche have gone on to sell tens of thousands of units with very few reported problems. Never mind matey, better luck next time
Not mentioning any names ...
Is anyone having to constantly calibrate each use? I'm constantly having to recalibrate before each use.
Never. So far. Had for a month. Do 4 shots a day. So far so good
You are like the AvE of coffee
BOLGR? :)
I don't think he's in the U.S.. The motor was rated at 220-240 volts.
Lurrve the AVE focus ref
I stop my video 3:30 mark - looking for my PTFE tape
One of us must have a defective Niche. I can't imagine that I could generate that amount of fines in my own Niche. Personally that is unacceptable for me. I would return the unit. I have been grinding coffee every day for 25 years on several popular grinders. MY OWN Niche produces significantly LESS fines than my Baratzas, my Lido hand grinders and other grinders that I have used.
Only one big difference-I have never taken apart and tried to reassemble my Niche-like the Wired Gourmet.
Perhaps it was not reassembled correctly, is a defective unity, or Niche has made small improvements between the 2 units.
I thought it was bizarre too and sent a screen grab of that clip to the company before editing the video. They assured me it was normal, so I included it. Strangely, that all happened before the teardown, and since I put it back together, it makes a lot fewer fines in the coarse range than it used to. But I can't explain it: I saw nothing even slightly out of whack when I took it apart. Definitely a puzzler.
@@wiredgourmet I just measured my fines with a Kruve(twice)!! in 30 grams of beans, I sifted at 300 microns to be conservative. Less than one gram of fines. :)
Then, I might have the greatest lemon of all time-seriously. :) I am truly sorry that you have so many fines. If I spent that much and got that many fines, my head would have exploded. (I have a history with being poor, cheap grinders, and lots of fines. I still have the scars;). I agree that the NIche is NOT for everyone, because I can visually see a wide distribution in mine-which has been widely reported with the Niche. The Niche is not someone who wants to get the most clarity possible-like Lance. You can get A+ on clarity at this price point. The Niche is a solid B. I still get great clarity with the Niche-more than enough for me and I feel like I am not missing out on anything in my bean. I never said that I appreciate the time spent in this in-depth review. thanks!
Those plastic gears don't inspire confidence no matter how you look at them. The fact that you can find them in most electric drills doesn't mean they're OK, it just means that those electric drills are cheaply built, too.
FIRST!
Welcome :)
why tho?
Okay now let's send one to @AvE
BOLTR?
@@wiredgourmet That's right, might not be tea bag!