Wonderfully done, as usual. I'm a Niche owner, but really appreciate how fairly you treated all 3, especially the flavor descriptors...too often neglected when watching grinder comparisons. Sort of like cell phone reviews, which wait till page 8 to say.."oh yeah, the call quality is fine." Yours is 1st class work.
Happy Niche Zero owner here. I've only had mine for a couple weeks but it's actually quieter in person than listening to it run on my phone while watching TH-cam videos!
I love your videos. No bullshit, straight up information. Showing the workflow details was amazing. Now I exactly know what to expect from every grinder. Timelapses are also great. Nothing is hidden, everything transparently shown. ❤❤❤
I am thoroughly glad to have bought the Niche and have had it for several months now. It’s a workhorse and a pleasure to use. I love the simple cleaning and daily workflow. Although there are better grinders out there, I would be hard-pressed to ever ‘upgrade’ beyond the Niche. I haven’t seen anything else as simple and pleasurable to use in existence as of yet.
Since a couple of weeks I own a DF64. With standard burrs. What an amazing grinder!! I love it. It's easy in use and has superb performance. I only opted for a dial indicator ring, which costs around EU. 20,00. Very handy! I don't notice a lot of hindrance of anti popcorning neither the need of a modified cup holder. For me this is the best grinder I could get. And for a very decent price.
The Turin DF64 requires modification to the anti clumping screen, The stock screen is terrible. You will have coffee packed here even using the bellows aggressively. A metal dosing cup is recommended to reduce static. The v2 grinder comes with the grind indicator arrow pointer. Anti popcorn, metal cup, dosing cup positioning collar and proper declumper is about $90 total. Then you have the best performing espresso grinder that you can buy for $550.
Thanks for sharing this video with us... I own a Niche Zero so I figure my opinion may be biased plus I haven't tried either of the other two grinders but a very limited drinks... I've had more drinks (both espresso & latte's) from the DF64 then the Eureka. All in all I prefer my Niche probably because I tend to prefer the slightly less acidic tastes and a fuller bodied taste.
Very good review of the grinders. In particular I can attest with all your conclusions for the Niche and the DF64 since I have both of them. The DF64 I upgraded the burrs to the SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs and added all the 3D modification available for this grinder. I cannot opine on the other grinder since I have never used one. I agree that the Niche and the DF64 are very good grinders . However, my preference is the Niche over the DF64 in the espresso it produces with more full body than the DF64 that produces more clarity. I prefer also the work flow of the Niche over the DF64 and I completely agree also that out of the box the Niche simply works . The DF64 you need to be willing to modify it ! I intend to keep both the Niche and the DF64 because they complement each other. However, if I had to only keep one it would be the Niche! Great reviews! Thanks!
@@ThunderRunner I decided to go with the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs because 95% of my coffee is espresso. I do not prepare that many pour overs and with the Niche I can prepare the occasional pour over. I had heard that although the SSP multipurpose burrs can be used for espresso it was not as good for espresso as the High Uniformity espresso burrs. I have never used the multiple burrs . I have heard comments form others that the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs produce more similar results to the Niche than the SSP multipurpose burrs but I have not tried them to compare.
I loved the video and comparison, helped me a lot in making a decision for my birthday. The tasting part was hard to follow, no grinder went ahead of the others and it took way too long. Congratulations for everything you do!
I use the DF64 in my business. The main reason I chose it over the niche is purely availibility. It makes excellent coffee for sure. The placement of the switch, the difficulty of aligning the grind setting, the hopper which keeps on falling down as well (I reach it from above) make for a work flow that is less than ideal. I will buy mods to improve it. I fear the eureka oro would have the same tiny imperfections, if not worst, and comes with a higher tag price
I can't help but think that IF Eureka bothered to add speed adjustability (while maintaining torque) that it would be a notch better. It needs an inverter to do that as it stands now. Basically, it turns too fast. A slower grind would be such a great improvement in grind quality, less noise, brew, quality, tidiness, and retention. (And I suspect it would result in a lot fewer if any fines.)
As much as I wanted the NZ or Oro, I couldn’t justify the price - I went with a Sette 270 and got a single dosing hopper for it haha. It’s near zero retention with the bellows (even without, its low retention out of the box) and it got it from you guys! Combined with my Gaggia Classic Pro (with 9 bar springs installed) and I’m off to the races :)
@@AlternativeBrewing I’m sure one day I’ll be hitting the limits of my grinder and machine, but they’ll do quite nicely until then! Can’t wait to see how the single dose low retention grinder market continues to evolve until that point
I went the same direction and am regretting it. The higher cost is metal vs. plastic. I've only had the Sette 270wi for a year and it's already failed to maintain an espresso grind. The shims they provide in advance to regain fine grounding, given how quickly this has already deteriorated, seems short term. I'm going metal now!
8:30 - watching the noise spectra of the grinders, I think an “unpleasantness rating” of some sort would be useful. The Eureka and DF64 have an annoying, peaky resonance in the upper mids, and the Niche sounds flatter.
😂 100% yes! The Niche has a lower RPM of the burrs - being conical - it's as low as 330 rpm. Whereas the DF64 and Eureka's flat burrs have to spin at 1400 rpm +
@@AlternativeBrewing Holy moly, that's a big difference. Now I wonder, though, how they'd compare to the Ode since it also uses flat burrs (also at 1400 rpm, yes?).
@@LJ-wo1wf SSP unimodal multipurpose burrs are the highest pitch unfortunately but great burrs. I agree I like niches low rumble. The Specialita was also pretty quiet and Atom 75 is a super fast super quiet beast but not ideal for low retention single dosing of course. :) So kinda disappointing their latest Oro grinders were louder than previous and even ' lower end ' grinders like Specialita and I assume Silencio etc (never tried those smaller mignons).
The Niche Zero costs $700 (at least no more weird ordering hoops; 2 months), the DF64 costs $425 (easy to buy; immediate) and I won't even consider buying Eureka (easy to buy; immediate). Trying to do pour overs and espresso are nearly impossible on Eureka, if sharing the grinder with multiple family members and trying to remember how many damn turns you've done on the dial, lots of wasted coffee and wasted time. Eureka really and desperately needs to fix that "dialing system," as is it really sucks, if they want to be competitive in this market space.
Very much enjoyed this extended review! I own a Eureka Mignon Specialita as the price jump to the Niche was just too steep. The Oro was not yet released when I purchased the EMS and the DF64 was a slight price jump for less convenience. The EMS has 3rd party bellows attachments available, so if I really craved that workflow, it is available to me. IN hindsight, I wish I had chosen the DF64, as having a burr upgrade path is now more attractive than a workflow/retention one. Personally, I understand the Niche - having such low retention with a big simple opening for single dose makes complete sense. I think the Oro and the DF64 are just a bit 'hacked'... I really hope manufacturers steer away from this bellows design as it seems like a stop gap, and from your tests, pretty unnecessary when the Niche can do better without one.
Very good points, but I wonder if you think being able to upgrade the burr is worth all the disadvantages of DF64, like more popcorning, lots of static and significantly louder compared to the Mignon? For some reason where I live the Single Dose grinders are cheaper, so my options are DF64 and Eureka Mignon Zero (not Oro), with a 150 dollar bump to Specialita, so I'm leaning towards the Zero, for the reasons mentioned above. Curious if in the last year you changed your perspective on this!
@@MihaiCostiug it was interesting to have a think about this again. Since this post I’ve been really happy with my EMS. I find for my pallet and the time I have to make a coffee there are plenty of other variables I can tweak to change my cup without me desiring a bigger burr set or switching said burrs out for a 3rd party set. That said ignorance is bliss I suppose. I have my EMS sitting next to a Breville Smart Grinder which I use for guests who have their coffee with 7 metric tonnes of milk. Not wasting good beans on that! Anyway I mention it because the noise levels are dramatically different. I wouldn’t say the EMS is whisper quiet but it is significantly muffled and overall a nicer pitch to hear in the morning. If reviewers are still pitching the Eureka as quiet I’d back that as close to truth. I don’t have issues with popcorning or static. Though there is a bit of static at the coarser end if you’re grinding for filter and conversely, a bit of clumping at the finer end if you’re really pushing the limit of fineness. Hope that helps, I think for the money I paid I’m still happy with the grinder. Haven’t actually wanted to upgrade this whole time so that’s good for something.
Love you guys and everything you do, this was a really useful video as I'm tossing up all three options. I got a rude shock when I saw your price for the Niche Zero 60% more than buying a unit shipped direct from Niche. I just don't understand why us Aussies get slogged with these mark ups.
got to remember that the niche zero is exceedingly hard to get with competitive pre order signups then a significant production + intl shipping wait time. markup is due to scarcity and convience not just Aus markup (which I'm sure is maybe responsible for 10,15% of that markup).
Your reviews and experience reflect mine. I own 2x DF64s and Niche for months. Niche is great for the blend like signature blend of most roaster and DF64 (SSP) is best for those single origin beans. Get both if you can!
We just got the full opinion and comparison results up front, within the first 2 minutes of a 24 minute video. A well-deserved LIKE from me, a quick comment, and now back to watch the rest for the details!
6:40 I found it's hard to find a dosing funnel that actually fits with the DF64 portafilter forks, cool yours happened to fit! With the Niche Cup I'd always end up with the coffee tilted to one side so the plastic is kinda nice to be able to see through it and how it's sitting in there.
@@AlternativeBrewing espresso for me. Flat whites for the wife. I prefer a more Chocolat, sweet, textured. But have recently started to appreciate bright fruit notes, lighter roasts.
I'd say the Eureka will fit in just perfectly than. I've tested all three at home - identical beverages made each day - a long black and flat white - the happy middle ground has been the Eureka. Niche was a little too meh for me when tasting very good fruity beans - and the DF64 - my wife said made the coffee not taste as strong
Nice comparison. I happen to own the niche and recently got the Eureka Single dose. wanted you thoughts. I onyl drink espresso/Americano. would i say that Niche really works well with dark roast. the Eureka somehow , coffe taste sweet and very balance while its really on the brighter side compared to niche... will you say flat burrs better for epresso lover exploring medium roast mainly?
Yes, I'd agree with this for the most part. Specifically lighter, fruit forward flavours over full body, nutty and chocolate forward coffee - go Flat Burrs 🫶
Hi, I own a niche zero, and the coffee I get is rather enjoyable, but some time ago I had the Ceado E37S and the coffee was better. In due time I was thinking of going to the bank and buying a Ceado E37sd. The DF 64 with ssp burrs might also be an option, but the overall construction of the DF64 grinder seems a little bit cheaper than the Ceado for which there are also ssp burrs for sale. Thanks for the video. Drink fresh coffee.
I had the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Doser for about 3 weeks. Had to return it back to the Dealer as the vibration and noise levels became unbearable (see my short TH-cam video). Also had the DF64 with Eureka fitted titanium burrs before the Eureka but didn't use it as I didn't like the aesthetics so I also returned this grinder back to the Dealer, with awaiting for over 3 months (due to production issues Eureka had - heard it was due to vibration of the motor issues) for the Eureka to be delivered.
Outstanding video! I am considering purchasing a new grinder. I’m currently using a Eureka Mignon Specialita. I’m thinking about the Niche Zero. I primarily brew milk based espresso drinks with dark roast coffee. In your opinion would I achieve better results with the flat burr Eureka or the conical burr Niche…..
Niche's conical burrs 100%! If it's predominantly milk based espresso drinks with dark roast coffee - I would choose the conical burrs over flat burrs. You'll discover a depth and richness, that'll linger on your palate with the Niche, that will be harder to accomplish using flat burrs.
I would agree that the Niche is great for a Conical burr machine, just a shame the way that the company makes it unavailable and although service is good, the way that it is handled is less then desirable, sending electrical parts out to a consumer with instructions to install themselves, might be ok in some parts of the world but in Australian there is a reason there is a licence for electrical work!
I hand grind and I am pretty sure I am not generating much noise at all (other than the occasional grunting if the grind setting is one click too fine). My Niche is on its way to me as I type this, although I am a bit apprehensive that I may have wasted my money as I have grown to like hand grinding with my 1Zpresso JX-Pro. It gives my hand grip and forearms a bit of a workout and I have grown to feel when the coffee is being ground reasonably properly.
I thought the same thing! 😂 give it a week or two of not hand grinding - plus when dialling the coffee in with a HG, I find it a bit of a chore (here we go again!) Whereas with the Niche - I just pop another dose in and grind away to perfection 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing I am hoping I come to the same conclusion as you. " I just pop another dose in and grind away to perfection" My 1Zpresso setting does not drift from dose to dose, so it only needs tuning for different coffee batches, and then maybe the occasional click up or down for OCD perfection.
@@TomJones-tx7pb i have the same grinder but big issues with consistancy. it seems like the speed in which i grind greatly impacts the grind size, which makes it hard to keep it dialed in. did you experience similar issues?
@@gnauben No I grind with it at about one revolution of the handle per second. Basically as slow as I can without stalling. I have been using the Niche Zero for about a year now and that is very consistent. It also does not drift out of calibration. I extract with a peak extraction rate of 1.5g/s. If a new coffee runs between 1-2g/s peak rate, then a simple click gets me back where I want to be. I have a Niche Duo on order, and am looking forward to seeing how that changes the extraction.
Love this video! I'm not even looking for an electric grinder but the script of the video and the movie themed story telling really got me. As usual very informative reviews. Great effort!
Side grade for sure. Most people have forgone the Mazzers - as they appear like Commercial grinders - though essentially are just as good - and certainly market tested 👌 I'd look at getting a sweet set of burr in the Super Jolly and you'll be right
@@AlternativeBrewing thanks, I bought it from a distressed cafe sale and cosmetically, the grinder body has taken a beating but the thing just keeps on running. It has had only one burr set change over about a near 10 year period lol. Time to get my order in!
@@AlternativeBrewing I’m on your website - which SSP 64mm grinder burrs are best for a balance of clarity, juiciness and body? The burrs are getting an upgrade an the machine is a linea micra. We normally buy Tim Adam’s specialty coffee, padre, supernumerary coffee, as we are located in Brisbane.
The noise measurement is something i always see done wrong. First you need a good qualitiy mike. Then you can eather measure the sound level exposure in 'hearing Position'. Typicall would be 1m away from the grinder or ina kitchen scenario it's likely to be a bit closer like 80 cm. You decide. But be sure to always measure the same way und show how you done it so your viewers can understand the result. Point the mik towards the grinder! And do not lay it down on the table, you should hold it in the air (same thing with reflections of the table, i also don't lay my head on the table while grinding ;)) Also a thing to consider is the room und the place of the grinder here. If you have the grinder in a corner with flat walls around, the results will get a few dB higher because of reflections. I would rather measure it on a more open table in the middle of the room and tell your viewers, that it could be louder or quieter depending on the suroundings. Also: 65dB is normal speaking Volume. But you can't compare that with noise, because if you measure a grinder with a sum of 67dB, it could be that there are some frequenzies even higher than 80-90dB (can damage you ears) but lower frequenzies are below 60dB why the sum is 67dB. Something to keep in mind for yourself:) Some grinder may have higher peaks than others, even if they are the same volume in sum. Adding a subjectiv rating of the noise is also a good thing in my opinion! Hope that helps!
Legend! thanks for the tips and extra info 😀 - a novice in the realm of noise quality - I only just learnt that dB's go up in the power of ten! (is that right?) so 70dB is in fact 10x louder than 60db - not just 10dB" louder. 😂 "i also don't lay my head on the table while grinding ;))" Very true! I actually lift the Niche Zero off the kitchen bench at home - as I feel the vibrations make the whole operation louder!
@@AlternativeBrewing Yes thats true! Imagine how special our ears are. a jump from 30dB to 60dB means it is a 1000x times higher sound pressure! But we hear from 0dB to 100dB! Good point with the vibrations, which is also a point to consider^^ I wanna say: Your review is on of the best out there on these grinders and you you did really well comparing them! The Taste test is really interesting there. If you are on a budget, would you recommend buying a Eureka Mignon Silenzio/specialita for single dosing or rather buy the DF64? I could not put a Baratza Sette in my kitchen with that horrible sound! ;)
@@Simssss888 haha yeah the Sette's are something else 😂 IMHO a DF64 for a margin more over the Specialta, and you're getting way more value for your money there. Neither Eureka's were designed for single dosing - and the Silenzio is quiet - but they're 50mm burrs! only 2mm more than many quality hand grinders. So for everything as an upgrade to that - I would say the DF64 is the smartest option
I believe the Lagom P64 is the original df64 it's a lot more money but basically everything the Df64 is plus more with none of the DF64 downsides. Plus it looks a lot better. But the df64 is still a great value and with the same burrs a aligned df64 with maybe a modified declumper would be near identical (minus rpm control). P64 has supposedly perfect alignment and no bellows and less retention without having to resort to a bellows also quieter motor although df64 isn't too loud either. Workflow on the p64 is about as nice as niche zeros which is really good.
The Df64 would be the best all-rounder for sure. All depends on how you enjoy your coffee too. Fruity, high clarity and sweetness - DF64 for sure. A little more robust, with somebody - the Eureka. All body, sweetness and less clarity - the Niche
Great video and loved the detail and attention to all aspects of these grinders. I feel like you really can't go wrong with any of these :) I recently bought a Eureka Oro single dose and haven't received it yet. I love the aesthetics, it has great retention and I'm looking for flat burrs for their taste profile. Fortunately, I have about a month to change my mind. I'm a bit concerned mainly due to the fact that I will be using it mainly, to start, for pour-overs. Is there a concern with the grind being a bit too fine or not having enough range for manual brewing? Is the grind consistent and uniform for this use case? The 65mm flat burrs seem pretty darn good to me and they will last a long time, but will I ever feel the need to upgrade the burrs? Also, for the workflow, I feel like ill be able to remember how many turns I've made when I switch from espresso to pour-overs. Has anyone had a lot of trouble switching between the settings to the point where they simply can't or don't want to dial the grinder between these settings? Would you feel comfortable switching it, let's say, a couple times a day? Is it doable? Any advice here would be highly appreciated, I really want to feel happy about my purchase and hopefully not change my mind.
No concern with grind quality - you'll be able to find the grind you need. You'll basically never need to change the burrs 😂 they'll seriously last a lifetime - unless its in a commercial setting. In terms of switching - I only found it a mild inconvenience - but comparing it to say the Niche - it stands out like a sore thumb ...
8:30 I think the best way to measure noise is to use a noise meter (or just a cheap app on your phone) but be aware to keep it always at the same distance, as well as provide your opinions on which sounds the least or most offensive in your hopefully unbiased opinion, as decibels don't always give you the whole story. I'm not sure grinders are all getting more quiet, since the Specialita was definitely more quiet than the Oro SD I had!
Thanks for the tips! - In this video I didn't edit the noise to be any less than how it was filmed. Hoping this may also, over and above the visuals of the dB reader, and indication of their nuances. The Niche is my pick, although 10-15 seconds longer in grind time is a much more pleasant sound to listen too. I don't see grinders getting any less quit than around the Specialita's 55dB ... maybe a stretch to 50dB - would be happy to be wrong - unless they reduce burr RPMs and lengthen the time of grinding. I feel like there's going to be a tradeoff somewhere - just like temperature stability too... you can't grind beans without creating friction and heat - reduce this in certain ways always create a larger grinder body, or imperfect burr geometry/burr chamber retention/ noisy fans etc... Love the fact that the grinders do have a fair way to go to catch up with technology that's available to them
@@AlternativeBrewing I actually made some videos where I tested temperatures of the grounds coming out after I noticed the Eureka oro single doser grinders coffee was noticeably warmer to the touch vs the DF64 or other grinders I had used, It is much faster though. The Atom 75 IS super fast and even more quiet than the Specialita or Niche but not ideal for single dosing it's a beast. It also had about same temp ground coffee out of it as the Oro SD. About 106f-110f vs Df64 or lagom p64 which was around 96-99f I don't think it really is enough to make a difference unless you're grinding a lot of coffee at once. Just thought it was interesting it was noticibly warmer.
Hi there, thanks very much for making this comparison video, this is helpful. Question - I own Baratza Sette 270 grinder. Do you think it is worth upgrading to any of these grinders? I only use the grinder for espresso. Thanks.
Yeah - that depends on how old the Sette 270 is, and how satisfied you are with its performance. Any one of these grinders is close to end game for a Home barista - (not wanting to spend $$$$ ).. so yes - something like the DF64 Grinder will bring a degree of clarity and flavour to the coffee that a Baratza Sette will not. It's also more durable and more modifiable for upgrades ...
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you. I got niche zero and happy with results of milk based drinks. Your videos have been helpful and appreciate your response.
Thank you very much for an effective and informative review! I have the Niche and are curious to add a flat burr grinder to my setup to have an alternative to the conical taste profile. I brew espresso and aeropress. If you go a bit up in price, is there a better alternative than the two flat burr grinders in this video? Is there an option at a lower price point than the Lagom P64? Preferably SD or very low retention.
Yeah, the Eureka Atom, or Atom 75. Both large flat burrs and produce nice fluffy grounds. You can get smaller hoppers in them too - if looking for single dosing. I cannot comment fully on the retention of these grinders - but they are easily looked over as great flat burr grinders as they appear to be commercial sized Espresso grinders - but I suspect the could easily keep up with the trend
Thanks for the tip! Yeah - I've seen people do this as well. If there's not much time between placing it back on - then I'm guessing you're not finding the beans quickly pop out before then?
if you have a 3d printed anti-popcorn mod it kinda makes you more inclined to use the lid rather than removing the whole bellows but before I had that I was just removing the bellows. Popcorning never was really much of an issue, but the mod does allow you to 'hot load' dropping beans into the running grinder, and reduces the stray bean fragments that end up hopper area.
@@BensCoffeeRants I was able to design an anti popcorn funnel that allows you to take off the whole bellows while not disturbing the funnel. It is a press fit, so it doesn’t move at all. I’ve tried to post about it on TH-cam before, but it always gets removed.
I agree with your assessments of the grinders, I've also had all of them :D But I think the DF64 out of the box is actually more capable than the Oro SD, since mine had issues with clogging up so the bellows never worked, at least the bellows was functional on the DF64. Apparently they are going to fix it for next revision.
@@gregoryw9 Espresso with light roast df64 or p64 with SSP unimodal burrs (or other ssp burrs) is going to be best. For more traditional rich chocolately type shots, and/or with milk Niche is better. The oro / eureka burrs are somewhere in between not exactly high clarity or high body but a good compromise.
So since then I got a chance to try out the updated v1.1 model Oro SD and it is definitely better. There's less vibration and hopper quality seems better and cut off chute doesn't squeak anymore and the declumper / chute doesn't clog up as badly but it still clogs up a enough to make the bellows basically almost useless and just really annoying to use you need to really beat it and then with bellows it gives inconsistent retention. The best way to use that grinder is without the bellows. It's much more consistent and the retention amount is not so bad that it harms anything. Without the bellows I like the grinder. With it I kinda hate it. Seems like they added a bellows to check off a feature box! And also don't know how to design grinders with a bellows.
08:03 I can't recall ever having the urge to make an espresso during the wee-wee hours of the morning. I'm more concerned about getting back to sleep before my alarm goes off. 😁🛏😴
Hi there! Thanks for your question. Yes 100% having a Kinu HG, along with a DF64 - that's a very good combo. The DF64 has more clarity in the shots over say the Kinu even 👌 The Niche - is a great Grinder - love it for workflow - but it is more akin to the Comandante in flavour profiles.
@@AlternativeBrewing I thought it's other way around haha. I thought Kinu gives that chocolatey "niche" profile... I currently have Comandante (love it). But I do want to upgrade to an automatic grinder and thinking between DF64 and Niche... So would you say DF64 would better complement my Comandante in that case? As to provide different tastes. Or Niche still would be a winner? I originally thought of using Niche for my medium roasts with milk drinks and comandante would be reserved for lighter roasts straight shots. Did i get it all wrong? >
@@AlternativeBrewing thats great, thank you! One more question which would be better Niche or the fellow ode (without spp burrs) for these type of coffees?
I've had them all. Df64 and P64 with the same burrs should be similar but p64 you have a more beautiful grinder less fussing around and cleaner workflow with no bellows, less retention without a thick silicon declumper screen the df64 has, also p64 is quieter, has variable RPMs and the accessories it comes with are very nice as well. But a lot more money. Basically the niche and eureka are probably closer together taste wise since I find eureka burrs to blend flavours together in a conical like fashion although body and mouth feel and workflow ease of use is gonna be a lot better on niche zero. P64 is about as nice to work with as a niche zero but p64 is high clarity the niche is higher body. Both would be a perfect combo. Havent watched the video yet so curious what they say if it correlates with my findings.
Now that some reviewers got their hands on a DF83 grinder, what is the verdict between the DF83 and the Niche Zero for espresso coffee? Thanks for all the great videos!
I'd be close to saying DF83 for the win. Since this video - I have no qualms replacing burrs with a better set, and chasing optimal performance in a grinder - the DF83 is a great grinder out of the box, however SSP are working on newer 83mm burrs, which is just too goo dto ignore!
JUNE 2024 - EUREKA SD STILL WAY TOO MUCH VIBRATION. I purchased this grinder new in Australia. I had read all about the first batch's vibration issues, and that they'd been resolved. Sadly, these ORO Single Dose units still have 3-4 times the vibration of Eureka's upright grinders, even vs the XL with same 65mm burr set. I was shocked and disappointed, so I drove to the distributor to compare the Eureka range. The vibrations on their display Single Dose were almost as bad as the one shipped to me. I believe it is a fundamental flaw with the 15 degree tilt of the motor.
Thanks for a great video especially the part that compares their taste profiles. I was considering the Oro or DF64 since Niche shipping posts a challenge for my country. After this video, I’m reconsidering knowing Niche gives the fullest body. Do you think changing the DF64’s burr set to SSP from its stock burr set helps with giving a fuller body?
Thanks for watching! No, the SSP burrs are only going to magnify the clarity and cleanliness of the coffee, speed up grind times -as well as extend the overall peak performance of the burrs themselves. So if body, texture and a lingering aftertaste is your preferred Flavour profile, I'd be looking at a Conical Burr grinder for sure.
Thanks, @@AlternativeBrewing Great to learn these burr characteristics. I have a much better idea of what to get now. Once again, appreciate the video.
I'm shopping a new grinder. I'm sorry to say that I feel such video (and many others including james Hoffman review) is a publicity for the niche. I have hard time to believe a recent grinder company produces products better products than Eureka who has been fabricating grinders for more than 100 years. That's besides Italy is the espresso home
@@HaloFreaker The Breville grinder is better if you're looking to fill the hopper with beans and use a timer for on-demand grinding, which none of these support. But in terms of grind quality, retention etc, these three are all better. And of course the Dual Boiler is an espresso machine, so apples to oranges in the context of a grinder comparison.
I would've gotten the Niche, if it weren't for the ridiculous price. With customs and taxes the thing will cost around 700-800 €. It is a great grinder, but it is not a 700 € grinder. For that money I can get a DF64 with SSP burrs. I will go for the DF64, or wait for the Timemore Sculptor 064S, if that one lives up to its promises.
Really liking my Oro SDG. Don’t care for the look of niche, or the fact that it’s a couple years old and made in China, but somehow still has a waitlist. The wait would have actually been shorter for the niche than the Oro, but I love the angular look and black color with wood accents.. also I’m pretty sure, after seeing many other reviews on YT, that I got lucky with my order. I’m getting .00-.02 retention max and it sounds much quieter then what I see in reviews. The fact that the world seems so obsessed with Niche is also a turn off for me personally. I’m glad so many people enjoy it though. if they release a new version in the future I’ll pick it up, but for now I’m definitely happy with the Oro ;) ☕️☕️
I really want/wanted the Oro too. The aesthetic was a big part of it, and I don’t love the look of the Niche. The vibration issues and lack of versatility in the pour over range (and grind size knob changing setting mid-grind due to heavy vibrations) were the deciding problems for me. Clogging, retention, loose lid/bellows fitment, strange manual gate, and recycled front panel with unused portafilter holder clip area and non-functional button were also quite disappointing turn offs. It’s like they nailed elegance in the aesthetic design, but missed big time in functional design. I really wanted to love it, but today I bought a Niche. Hopefully Eureka will iron out the issues with a version 2. If they do I may even still get one in the future. It’s an exceptionally beautiful machine with great potential, I think it deserved some more R&D time before they released it. Good to hear you’ve had a positive experience with yours though for sure. That makes me more optimistic.
The original KitchenAide food mixers were well made beasts, but then the company got bought out and cheaper internals were used. To get the same mixer today you have to buy a larger and more expensive commercial version from another company. I could see the same happening to Niche, given its popularity and reputation.
I'm not a super taster by any means, and I do prefer med/dark roasts with chocolate/nutty notes,low/no acidity.... but I HATE the look of the Niche (and don't love that you can't put a bellow on it. Would it be a mistake to get an Oro, Specialita, or something similar? Basically every reasonably affordable conical grinder people espouse has something I HATE (the Niche's design, the DF64's god awful screeching sound while grinding...), but I don't want to waste my money on a grinder that turns out a drink I won't like
Fair point - the DF64 is great without all of these suggestions - it seems these mods - are add-ons making a great grinder close to perfect - (this is my understanding of it). I've been very happy with the results from the DF64
€420 for the df64 vs €600 for the Oro and €745 for the niche. This is a pointless comparison video given the huge variance in prices. It also really makes me question what’s going on behind the scenes with so many youtubers recommending the niche over products nearly half the price.
AWe have a saying, you get what you pay for 😂 The DF64 makes the perfect investment - but the NIche is a great grinder that has stood the test of time with its performance & is priced accordingly
I'll give you the constructive criticism. The law and order transitions were really weird and out of place for a video like this. Every time I started to enjoy the video again I got reminded about murder and pedophiles...The taste comparison with flavor notes didn't really make sense (why is it relevant?) to me either so I stopped watching at that point. I wanted to enjoy the video more. I enjoyed your explanations and insight!
Flavor notes in the taste comparison would be to give you an idea of what the differences they might have found in using the different grinders with different burrs on the SAME bean. This is a huge reason why people would considering experimenting with different burrs and burr geometries.
The Niche and the D64 are either a niightmare or 30 percent more in Europe..while the Eureka is actually cheaper than you would get it north america...I can get the oro all in for 550 euro....the D64 (new better version) 520....its 400 dollars in the states. So if the ORO and the d64 (new version) are the same price.....what to do?
DF64 with better burrs 👌 Worth it. Not looking to chase a better burr set - and want to brew mainly milk based Espresso - Oro is a great Grinder. I have one and it's been fantastic
Wonderfully done, as usual. I'm a Niche owner, but really appreciate how fairly you treated all 3, especially the flavor descriptors...too often neglected when watching grinder comparisons. Sort of like cell phone reviews, which wait till page 8 to say.."oh yeah, the call quality is fine." Yours is 1st class work.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Happy Niche Zero owner here. I've only had mine for a couple weeks but it's actually quieter in person than listening to it run on my phone while watching TH-cam videos!
I love your videos. No bullshit, straight up information. Showing the workflow details was amazing. Now I exactly know what to expect from every grinder. Timelapses are also great. Nothing is hidden, everything transparently shown. ❤❤❤
Thanks 🫶
I am thoroughly glad to have bought the Niche and have had it for several months now. It’s a workhorse and a pleasure to use. I love the simple cleaning and daily workflow.
Although there are better grinders out there, I would be hard-pressed to ever ‘upgrade’ beyond the Niche. I haven’t seen anything else as simple and pleasurable to use in existence as of yet.
Couldn't agree more!
Since a couple of weeks I own a DF64. With standard burrs. What an amazing grinder!! I love it. It's easy in use and has superb performance. I only opted for a dial indicator ring, which costs around EU. 20,00. Very handy! I don't notice a lot of hindrance of anti popcorning neither the need of a modified cup holder. For me this is the best grinder I could get. And for a very decent price.
Very nice!
How long does it take to grind a double dose?
@@dennisrkb I only make single shots with 14 grams and that takes 12,2 seconds
The Turin DF64 requires modification to the anti clumping screen, The stock screen is terrible. You will have coffee packed here even using the bellows aggressively. A metal dosing cup is recommended to reduce static. The v2 grinder comes with the grind indicator arrow pointer. Anti popcorn, metal cup, dosing cup positioning collar and proper declumper is about $90 total. Then you have the best performing espresso grinder that you can buy for $550.
The animations and jokes elevated an otherwise excellent comparison. Thanks for the added laughs.
Thanks for sharing this video with us... I own a Niche Zero so I figure my opinion may be biased plus I haven't tried either of the other two grinders but a very limited drinks... I've had more drinks (both espresso & latte's) from the DF64 then the Eureka. All in all I prefer my Niche probably because I tend to prefer the slightly less acidic tastes and a fuller bodied taste.
Thanks for sharing!
Very good review of the grinders. In particular I can attest with all your conclusions for the Niche and the DF64 since I have both of them. The DF64 I upgraded the burrs to the SSP High Uniformity espresso burrs and added all the 3D modification available for this grinder.
I cannot opine on the other grinder since I have never used one.
I agree that the Niche and the DF64 are very good grinders . However, my preference is the Niche over the DF64 in the espresso it produces with more full body than the DF64 that produces more clarity.
I prefer also the work flow of the Niche over the DF64 and I completely agree also that out of the box the Niche simply works . The DF64 you need to be willing to modify it !
I intend to keep both the Niche and the DF64 because they complement each other. However, if I had to only keep one it would be the Niche!
Great reviews!
Thanks!
Would you go with the high uniformity again or the multipurpose to give more of a compliment to the niche?
@@ThunderRunner I decided to go with the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs because 95% of my coffee is espresso. I do not prepare that many pour overs and with the Niche I can prepare the occasional pour over. I had heard that although the SSP multipurpose burrs can be used for espresso it was not as good for espresso as the High Uniformity espresso burrs. I have never used the multiple burrs . I have heard comments form others that the SSP high uniformity espresso burrs produce more similar results to the Niche than the SSP multipurpose burrs but I have not tried them to compare.
I loved the video and comparison, helped me a lot in making a decision for my birthday.
The tasting part was hard to follow, no grinder went ahead of the others and it took way too long.
Congratulations for everything you do!
Happy birthday!
Excellent video! Very informative! Thank you! I was about to get the Eureka, but I think the Niche might be the better choice.
Good choice!
I use the DF64 in my business. The main reason I chose it over the niche is purely availibility. It makes excellent coffee for sure. The placement of the switch, the difficulty of aligning the grind setting, the hopper which keeps on falling down as well (I reach it from above) make for a work flow that is less than ideal. I will buy mods to improve it. I fear the eureka oro would have the same tiny imperfections, if not worst, and comes with a higher tag price
im about to choose DF64 also for small business as well.. above that issues that you've mentioned, do you find another issue maybe?
@@pugiehobie beware of the df64's fine aluminum threads. Mine only lasted about a year.
It's a matter of time for Chinese manufacturers to start producing knockoff Niche.
@@h3h3podcastclipper do you know df64 is a pure chinese brand?
Really enjoyed the video, especially the in-depth review of each grinders cup profile and tasting notes.
thanks! 🫶
I can't help but think that IF Eureka bothered to add speed adjustability (while maintaining torque) that it would be a notch better. It needs an inverter to do that as it stands now.
Basically, it turns too fast.
A slower grind would be such a great improvement in grind quality, less noise, brew, quality, tidiness, and retention. (And I suspect it would result in a lot fewer if any fines.)
As much as I wanted the NZ or Oro, I couldn’t justify the price - I went with a Sette 270 and got a single dosing hopper for it haha. It’s near zero retention with the bellows (even without, its low retention out of the box) and it got it from you guys! Combined with my Gaggia Classic Pro (with 9 bar springs installed) and I’m off to the races :)
Sounds perfect ! Yeah - There are many ways to a great espresso and your setup sounds on point 👍
@@AlternativeBrewing I’m sure one day I’ll be hitting the limits of my grinder and machine, but they’ll do quite nicely until then! Can’t wait to see how the single dose low retention grinder market continues to evolve until that point
I went the same direction and am regretting it. The higher cost is metal vs. plastic. I've only had the Sette 270wi for a year and it's already failed to maintain an espresso grind. The shims they provide in advance to regain fine grounding, given how quickly this has already deteriorated, seems short term. I'm going metal now!
8:30 - watching the noise spectra of the grinders, I think an “unpleasantness rating” of some sort would be useful. The Eureka and DF64 have an annoying, peaky resonance in the upper mids, and the Niche sounds flatter.
😂 100% yes! The Niche has a lower RPM of the burrs - being conical - it's as low as 330 rpm. Whereas the DF64 and Eureka's flat burrs have to spin at 1400 rpm +
@@AlternativeBrewing Holy moly, that's a big difference. Now I wonder, though, how they'd compare to the Ode since it also uses flat burrs (also at 1400 rpm, yes?).
@@LJ-wo1wf SSP unimodal multipurpose burrs are the highest pitch unfortunately but great burrs.
I agree I like niches low rumble. The
Specialita was also pretty quiet and Atom 75 is a super fast super quiet beast but not ideal for low retention single dosing of course. :) So kinda disappointing their latest Oro grinders were louder than previous and even ' lower end ' grinders like Specialita and I assume Silencio etc (never tried those smaller mignons).
Nothing beats The Niche for a conical. Workflow etc.
The Niche Zero costs $700 (at least no more weird ordering hoops; 2 months), the DF64 costs $425 (easy to buy; immediate) and I won't even consider buying Eureka (easy to buy; immediate). Trying to do pour overs and espresso are nearly impossible on Eureka, if sharing the grinder with multiple family members and trying to remember how many damn turns you've done on the dial, lots of wasted coffee and wasted time. Eureka really and desperately needs to fix that "dialing system," as is it really sucks, if they want to be competitive in this market space.
BTW .. I'd love to see an OEM Modded DF64.
I just got my niche and the one thing I was surprised about was the filter coffee. If you go off the scale a little bit it was very tasty.
Try a natural processed coffee using the 40:60 method with the dot up near the 12 o'clock position. Delicious.
@@450gmo thanks I'll try that
Very much enjoyed this extended review! I own a Eureka Mignon Specialita as the price jump to the Niche was just too steep. The Oro was not yet released when I purchased the EMS and the DF64 was a slight price jump for less convenience. The EMS has 3rd party bellows attachments available, so if I really craved that workflow, it is available to me. IN hindsight, I wish I had chosen the DF64, as having a burr upgrade path is now more attractive than a workflow/retention one. Personally, I understand the Niche - having such low retention with a big simple opening for single dose makes complete sense. I think the Oro and the DF64 are just a bit 'hacked'... I really hope manufacturers steer away from this bellows design as it seems like a stop gap, and from your tests, pretty unnecessary when the Niche can do better without one.
That's true I think grinders without resorting to needing a bellows to have low retention are usually more consistent as well.
I think it shouldn’t be forgotten that it’s easier to get no retention from a conical burr, the geometry is just easier to make work
Very good points, but I wonder if you think being able to upgrade the burr is worth all the disadvantages of DF64, like more popcorning, lots of static and significantly louder compared to the Mignon?
For some reason where I live the Single Dose grinders are cheaper, so my options are DF64 and Eureka Mignon Zero (not Oro), with a 150 dollar bump to Specialita, so I'm leaning towards the Zero, for the reasons mentioned above.
Curious if in the last year you changed your perspective on this!
@@MihaiCostiug it was interesting to have a think about this again. Since this post I’ve been really happy with my EMS. I find for my pallet and the time I have to make a coffee there are plenty of other variables I can tweak to change my cup without me desiring a bigger burr set or switching said burrs out for a 3rd party set. That said ignorance is bliss I suppose. I have my EMS sitting next to a Breville Smart Grinder which I use for guests who have their coffee with 7 metric tonnes of milk. Not wasting good beans on that! Anyway I mention it because the noise levels are dramatically different. I wouldn’t say the EMS is whisper quiet but it is significantly muffled and overall a nicer pitch to hear in the morning. If reviewers are still pitching the Eureka as quiet I’d back that as close to truth. I don’t have issues with popcorning or static. Though there is a bit of static at the coarser end if you’re grinding for filter and conversely, a bit of clumping at the finer end if you’re really pushing the limit of fineness. Hope that helps, I think for the money I paid I’m still happy with the grinder. Haven’t actually wanted to upgrade this whole time so that’s good for something.
Love you guys and everything you do, this was a really useful video as I'm tossing up all three options. I got a rude shock when I saw your price for the Niche Zero 60% more than buying a unit shipped direct from Niche. I just don't understand why us Aussies get slogged with these mark ups.
got to remember that the niche zero is exceedingly hard to get with competitive pre order signups then a significant production + intl shipping wait time. markup is due to scarcity and convience not just Aus markup (which I'm sure is maybe responsible for 10,15% of that markup).
@@defvii Its definitely not a problem now, i ordered and got it delivered to my doorstep in just a few days
Your reviews and experience reflect mine. I own 2x DF64s and Niche for months. Niche is great for the blend like signature blend of most roaster and DF64 (SSP) is best for those single origin beans. Get both if you can!
Totally agree!
We just got the full opinion and comparison results up front, within the first 2 minutes of a 24 minute video.
A well-deserved LIKE from me, a quick comment, and now back to watch the rest for the details!
6:40 I found it's hard to find a dosing funnel that actually fits with the DF64 portafilter forks, cool yours happened to fit!
With the Niche Cup I'd always end up with the coffee tilted to one side so the plastic is kinda nice to be able to see through it and how it's sitting in there.
You should join the DF64 fb group, there is a funnel that is sold there which even covers the grinder!s exit chamber.
@@kojie333 I think I now have the one that you're referring to. Oat something makes them custom for the Df64. They work nicely.
excellent video. debating between all 3 and it's coming down to my curiosity with testing flat burrs.... indecisive.
Depends what beans you buy , and how you choose to drink it I guess 😀
@@AlternativeBrewing espresso for me. Flat whites for the wife. I prefer a more Chocolat, sweet, textured. But have recently started to appreciate bright fruit notes, lighter roasts.
I'd say the Eureka will fit in just perfectly than. I've tested all three at home - identical beverages made each day - a long black and flat white - the happy middle ground has been the Eureka. Niche was a little too meh for me when tasting very good fruity beans - and the DF64 - my wife said made the coffee not taste as strong
Nice comparison. I happen to own the niche and recently got the Eureka Single dose. wanted you thoughts. I onyl drink espresso/Americano. would i say that Niche really works well with dark roast. the Eureka somehow , coffe taste sweet and very balance while its really on the brighter side compared to niche...
will you say flat burrs better for epresso lover exploring medium roast mainly?
Yes, I'd agree with this for the most part. Specifically lighter, fruit forward flavours over full body, nutty and chocolate forward coffee - go Flat Burrs 🫶
What do you think of the Eureka Facile compared to the above lineup?
Hi, I own a niche zero, and the coffee I get is rather enjoyable, but some time ago I had the Ceado E37S and the coffee was better. In due time I was thinking of going to the bank and buying a Ceado E37sd. The DF 64 with ssp burrs might also be an option, but the overall construction of the DF64 grinder seems a little bit cheaper than the Ceado for which there are also ssp burrs for sale. Thanks for the video. Drink fresh coffee.
Thanks for sharing!
I had the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Doser for about 3 weeks. Had to return it back to the Dealer as the vibration and noise levels became unbearable (see my short TH-cam video). Also had the DF64 with Eureka fitted titanium burrs before the Eureka but didn't use it as I didn't like the aesthetics so I also returned this grinder back to the Dealer, with awaiting for over 3 months (due to production issues Eureka had - heard it was due to vibration of the motor issues) for the Eureka to be delivered.
Outstanding video! I am considering purchasing a new grinder. I’m currently using a Eureka Mignon Specialita. I’m thinking about the Niche Zero. I primarily brew milk based espresso drinks with dark roast coffee. In your opinion would I achieve better results with the flat burr Eureka or the conical burr Niche…..
Niche's conical burrs 100%! If it's predominantly milk based espresso drinks with dark roast coffee - I would choose the conical burrs over flat burrs. You'll discover a depth and richness, that'll linger on your palate with the Niche, that will be harder to accomplish using flat burrs.
Don't overlook the Baratza Sette 270 if you're looking at conical
Also, dB readings are standardised as 1 metre away in a reflection free environment (outside basically lol)
Thanks! I can do the the 1m away 👌
The SVU sound is a nice touch
😂 thanks ! You one of a hand full of people who recognised it 🫶
@@AlternativeBrewing 🤣
I would agree that the Niche is great for a Conical burr machine, just a shame the way that the company makes it unavailable and although service is good, the way that it is handled is less then desirable, sending electrical parts out to a consumer with instructions to install themselves, might be ok in some parts of the world but in Australian there is a reason there is a licence for electrical work!
Great video. As for noise ... my Sette 270Wi wakes up the neighbours!
Mine too!
Superb, thorough review! Bravo!
Thank you! Cheers!
I hand grind and I am pretty sure I am not generating much noise at all (other than the occasional grunting if the grind setting is one click too fine). My Niche is on its way to me as I type this, although I am a bit apprehensive that I may have wasted my money as I have grown to like hand grinding with my 1Zpresso JX-Pro. It gives my hand grip and forearms a bit of a workout and I have grown to feel when the coffee is being ground reasonably properly.
I thought the same thing! 😂 give it a week or two of not hand grinding - plus when dialling the coffee in with a HG, I find it a bit of a chore (here we go again!)
Whereas with the Niche - I just pop another dose in and grind away to perfection 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing I am hoping I come to the same conclusion as you. " I just pop another dose in and grind away to perfection" My 1Zpresso setting does not drift from dose to dose, so it only needs tuning for different coffee batches, and then maybe the occasional click up or down for OCD perfection.
@@TomJones-tx7pb i have the same grinder but big issues with consistancy. it seems like the speed in which i grind greatly impacts the grind size, which makes it hard to keep it dialed in. did you experience similar issues?
@@gnauben No I grind with it at about one revolution of the handle per second. Basically as slow as I can without stalling. I have been using the Niche Zero for about a year now and that is very consistent. It also does not drift out of calibration. I extract with a peak extraction rate of 1.5g/s. If a new coffee runs between 1-2g/s peak rate, then a simple click gets me back where I want to be. I have a Niche Duo on order, and am looking forward to seeing how that changes the extraction.
Love this video! I'm not even looking for an electric grinder but the script of the video and the movie themed story telling really got me. As usual very informative reviews. Great effort!
Wow, thanks!
This is pretty awesome. I have a mazzer super jolly at home. Are any of these an actual upgrade from that? Or is it more of a side grade??
Side grade for sure. Most people have forgone the Mazzers - as they appear like Commercial grinders - though essentially are just as good - and certainly market tested 👌 I'd look at getting a sweet set of burr in the Super Jolly and you'll be right
@@AlternativeBrewing thanks, I bought it from a distressed cafe sale and cosmetically, the grinder body has taken a beating but the thing just keeps on running. It has had only one burr set change over about a near 10 year period lol. Time to get my order in!
@@AlternativeBrewing I’m on your website - which SSP 64mm grinder burrs are best for a balance of clarity, juiciness and body? The burrs are getting an upgrade an the machine is a linea micra. We normally buy Tim Adam’s specialty coffee, padre, supernumerary coffee, as we are located in Brisbane.
@@antant06 i would say the Lab Sweet Burrs 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing sweet, ordered :)
The noise measurement is something i always see done wrong. First you need a good qualitiy mike.
Then you can eather measure the sound level exposure in 'hearing Position'. Typicall would be 1m away from the grinder or ina kitchen scenario it's likely to be a bit closer like 80 cm.
You decide. But be sure to always measure the same way und show how you done it so your viewers can understand the result. Point the mik towards the grinder! And do not lay it down on the table, you should hold it in the air (same thing with reflections of the table, i also don't lay my head on the table while grinding ;))
Also a thing to consider is the room und the place of the grinder here. If you have the grinder in a corner with flat walls around, the results will get a few dB higher because of reflections.
I would rather measure it on a more open table in the middle of the room and tell your viewers, that it could be louder or quieter depending on the suroundings.
Also: 65dB is normal speaking Volume. But you can't compare that with noise, because if you measure a grinder with a sum of 67dB, it could be that there are some frequenzies even higher than 80-90dB (can damage you ears) but lower frequenzies are below 60dB why the sum is 67dB. Something to keep in mind for yourself:) Some grinder may have higher peaks than others, even if they are the same volume in sum.
Adding a subjectiv rating of the noise is also a good thing in my opinion!
Hope that helps!
Legend! thanks for the tips and extra info 😀 - a novice in the realm of noise quality - I only just learnt that dB's go up in the power of ten! (is that right?) so 70dB is in fact 10x louder than 60db - not just 10dB" louder.
😂 "i also don't lay my head on the table while grinding ;))" Very true! I actually lift the Niche Zero off the kitchen bench at home - as I feel the vibrations make the whole operation louder!
@@AlternativeBrewing Yes thats true! Imagine how special our ears are. a jump from 30dB to 60dB means it is a 1000x times higher sound pressure! But we hear from 0dB to 100dB!
Good point with the vibrations, which is also a point to consider^^
I wanna say: Your review is on of the best out there on these grinders and you you did really well comparing them! The Taste test is really interesting there.
If you are on a budget, would you recommend buying a Eureka Mignon Silenzio/specialita for single dosing or rather buy the DF64?
I could not put a Baratza Sette in my kitchen with that horrible sound! ;)
@@Simssss888 haha yeah the Sette's are something else 😂
IMHO a DF64 for a margin more over the Specialta, and you're getting way more value for your money there. Neither Eureka's were designed for single dosing - and the Silenzio is quiet - but they're 50mm burrs! only 2mm more than many quality hand grinders.
So for everything as an upgrade to that - I would say the DF64 is the smartest option
@@AlternativeBrewing thanks your insight!
DF64 with SSP. No problems.
Best review of them out there 👏
Thanks so much!
I would absolutely love to see a lagom p64 comparison review.
I believe the Lagom P64 is the original df64 it's a lot more money but basically everything the Df64 is plus more with none of the DF64 downsides. Plus it looks a lot better. But the df64 is still a great value and with the same burrs a aligned df64 with maybe a modified declumper would be near identical (minus rpm control). P64 has supposedly perfect alignment and no bellows and less retention without having to resort to a bellows also quieter motor although df64 isn't too loud either. Workflow on the p64 is about as nice as niche zeros which is really good.
Alternative brewing any recommendations of a grinder for light roast?
The Df64 would be the best all-rounder for sure. All depends on how you enjoy your coffee too. Fruity, high clarity and sweetness - DF64 for sure. A little more robust, with somebody - the Eureka. All body, sweetness and less clarity - the Niche
Where can i find the spare part for dx64 ?
you can email out team at hello@alternativebrweing.com.au and we can possibly help source something for you 🙌
How would the df83 v2 compare?
Amazing review 10/10. Thank you!
My pleasure!
for noise its also the pitch of the sound!
Great video and loved the detail and attention to all aspects of these grinders. I feel like you really can't go wrong with any of these :)
I recently bought a Eureka Oro single dose and haven't received it yet. I love the aesthetics, it has great retention and I'm looking for flat burrs for their taste profile. Fortunately, I have about a month to change my mind. I'm a bit concerned mainly due to the fact that I will be using it mainly, to start, for pour-overs. Is there a concern with the grind being a bit too fine or not having enough range for manual brewing? Is the grind consistent and uniform for this use case? The 65mm flat burrs seem pretty darn good to me and they will last a long time, but will I ever feel the need to upgrade the burrs?
Also, for the workflow, I feel like ill be able to remember how many turns I've made when I switch from espresso to pour-overs. Has anyone had a lot of trouble switching between the settings to the point where they simply can't or don't want to dial the grinder between these settings? Would you feel comfortable switching it, let's say, a couple times a day? Is it doable? Any advice here would be highly appreciated, I really want to feel happy about my purchase and hopefully not change my mind.
No concern with grind quality - you'll be able to find the grind you need. You'll basically never need to change the burrs 😂 they'll seriously last a lifetime - unless its in a commercial setting. In terms of switching - I only found it a mild inconvenience - but comparing it to say the Niche - it stands out like a sore thumb ...
Awesome thanks for the response
8:30 I think the best way to measure noise is to use a noise meter (or just a cheap app on your phone) but be aware to keep it always at the same distance, as well as provide your opinions on which sounds the least or most offensive in your hopefully unbiased opinion, as decibels don't always give you the whole story.
I'm not sure grinders are all getting more quiet, since the Specialita was definitely more quiet than the Oro SD I had!
Thanks for the tips! - In this video I didn't edit the noise to be any less than how it was filmed. Hoping this may also, over and above the visuals of the dB reader, and indication of their nuances. The Niche is my pick, although 10-15 seconds longer in grind time is a much more pleasant sound to listen too. I don't see grinders getting any less quit than around the Specialita's 55dB ... maybe a stretch to 50dB - would be happy to be wrong - unless they reduce burr RPMs and lengthen the time of grinding. I feel like there's going to be a tradeoff somewhere - just like temperature stability too... you can't grind beans without creating friction and heat - reduce this in certain ways always create a larger grinder body, or imperfect burr geometry/burr chamber retention/ noisy fans etc... Love the fact that the grinders do have a fair way to go to catch up with technology that's available to them
@@AlternativeBrewing I actually made some videos where I tested temperatures of the grounds coming out after I noticed the Eureka oro single doser grinders coffee was noticeably warmer to the touch vs the DF64 or other grinders I had used, It is much faster though.
The Atom 75 IS super fast and even more quiet than the Specialita or Niche but not ideal for single dosing it's a beast. It also had about same temp ground coffee out of it as the Oro SD. About 106f-110f vs Df64 or lagom p64 which was around 96-99f
I don't think it really is enough to make a difference unless you're grinding a lot of coffee at once. Just thought it was interesting it was noticibly warmer.
Hi there, thanks very much for making this comparison video, this is helpful. Question - I own Baratza Sette 270 grinder. Do you think it is worth upgrading to any of these grinders? I only use the grinder for espresso. Thanks.
Yeah - that depends on how old the Sette 270 is, and how satisfied you are with its performance. Any one of these grinders is close to end game for a Home barista - (not wanting to spend $$$$ ).. so yes - something like the DF64 Grinder will bring a degree of clarity and flavour to the coffee that a Baratza Sette will not. It's also more durable and more modifiable for upgrades ...
In term of taste between df64 gen 2 and mahlkonig 54x, which one is better?
Pending a conclusive test- as the DF64 g2 is relatively new, and I haven’t compared these two - I would guess to say the Df64 still.
Recommendations Niche Zero/Niche DUO / D64 Gen 2 for Espresso-Milk based only ?
Price not an option? Niche 👌 - if looking for an incredible option for a budget - DF64 gen2
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you. I got niche zero and happy with results of milk based drinks. Your videos have been helpful and appreciate your response.
Thank you very much for an effective and informative review! I have the Niche and are curious to add a flat burr grinder to my setup to have an alternative to the conical taste profile. I brew espresso and aeropress. If you go a bit up in price, is there a better alternative than the two flat burr grinders in this video? Is there an option at a lower price point than the Lagom P64? Preferably SD or very low retention.
Yeah, the Eureka Atom, or Atom 75. Both large flat burrs and produce nice fluffy grounds. You can get smaller hoppers in them too - if looking for single dosing. I cannot comment fully on the retention of these grinders - but they are easily looked over as great flat burr grinders as they appear to be commercial sized Espresso grinders - but I suspect the could easily keep up with the trend
@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks! That one is on my list :)
I prefer removing the whole bellows for the DF64 when loading beans. It’s much more straight forward than trying to seat the metal cap in the rubber.
Thanks for the tip! Yeah - I've seen people do this as well. If there's not much time between placing it back on - then I'm guessing you're not finding the beans quickly pop out before then?
if you have a 3d printed anti-popcorn mod it kinda makes you more inclined to use the lid rather than removing the whole bellows but before I had that I was just removing the bellows. Popcorning never was really much of an issue, but the mod does allow you to 'hot load' dropping beans into the running grinder, and reduces the stray bean fragments that end up hopper area.
@@BensCoffeeRants I was able to design an anti popcorn funnel that allows you to take off the whole bellows while not disturbing the funnel. It is a press fit, so it doesn’t move at all. I’ve tried to post about it on TH-cam before, but it always gets removed.
@@AlternativeBrewing that is correct. I don’t experience much issue until the last of the beans are in the burrs.
@@BensCoffeeRants the design is on Thingiverse. It’s called ‘The Ultimate DF64 Anti Popcorn Funnel’.
I want that white Niche so bad.
I agree with your assessments of the grinders, I've also had all of them :D But I think the DF64 out of the box is actually more capable than the Oro SD, since mine had issues with clogging up so the bellows never worked, at least the bellows was functional on the DF64. Apparently they are going to fix it for next revision.
Thanks for sharing
Of all three what’s your pick for the best espresso or milk based?
@@gregoryw9 Espresso with light roast df64 or p64 with SSP unimodal burrs (or other ssp burrs) is going to be best. For more traditional rich chocolately type shots, and/or with milk Niche is better. The oro / eureka burrs are somewhere in between not exactly high clarity or high body but a good compromise.
So since then I got a chance to try out the updated v1.1 model Oro SD and it is definitely better. There's less vibration and hopper quality seems better and cut off chute doesn't squeak anymore and the declumper / chute doesn't clog up as badly but it still clogs up a enough to make the bellows basically almost useless and just really annoying to use you need to really beat it and then with bellows it gives inconsistent retention. The best way to use that grinder is without the bellows. It's much more consistent and the retention amount is not so bad that it harms anything. Without the bellows I like the grinder. With it I kinda hate it. Seems like they added a bellows to check off a feature box! And also don't know how to design grinders with a bellows.
08:03 I can't recall ever having the urge to make an espresso during the wee-wee hours of the morning. I'm more concerned about getting back to sleep before my alarm goes off. 😁🛏😴
😂 😂 😂 NICE!
Love this Josh well done mate 👍👍
Thanks 👍
I find it a bit difficult to be consistent with the pour-over. I'm curious about which grinder setting you used on the Niche Zero to get 500-600 µ?
A really great video ! I subscribe !
Awesome, thank you!
I don't want do modify the grinder myself. For that amount of money I pay, I expect a good final product. I don't understand the fans of the DF64.
I think the appeal is that with a few modifications, you can match grind quality of grinders 2-3x the price of the DF64 which I find very appealing
Which SSP burr is being used? High uniformity or multipurpose? Apologies if i missed you mentioning in the video.
The standard burrs that come with the DF64 which are Multipurpose 👍
Would you say that df64 is a good compliment to a kinu (I own one), while niche would somewhat overlap?
After 4 years, I want an electric
Hi there! Thanks for your question. Yes 100% having a Kinu HG, along with a DF64 - that's a very good combo. The DF64 has more clarity in the shots over say the Kinu even 👌
The Niche - is a great Grinder - love it for workflow - but it is more akin to the Comandante in flavour profiles.
@@AlternativeBrewing I thought it's other way around haha. I thought Kinu gives that chocolatey "niche" profile... I currently have Comandante (love it). But I do want to upgrade to an automatic grinder and thinking between DF64 and Niche... So would you say DF64 would better complement my Comandante in that case? As to provide different tastes. Or Niche still would be a winner? I originally thought of using Niche for my medium roasts with milk drinks and comandante would be reserved for lighter roasts straight shots. Did i get it all wrong? >
Would be good to see how the Hey Cafe H1 compares to these grinders.
I'm confused- I drink French press and filter coffee mostly with milk- which would make the best tasting coffee out the box?
Niche Zero 👌 Better body and texture, and this suits milk drinks more
@@AlternativeBrewing thats great, thank you! One more question which would be better Niche or the fellow ode (without spp burrs) for these type of coffees?
@@dommymac7458 Still the Niche 😀 In my experience, Milk based coffees benefit most from Conical Burrs, more than Flat
@@AlternativeBrewing thats great thanks for being so helpful! cheers ☕️
Great video, great job 👍
Thank you! 👍
Love the law and order effects lol
Thanks for the through review. Next comparison: Niche vs Lagom P64 , please
I've had them all. Df64 and P64 with the same burrs should be similar but p64 you have a more beautiful grinder less fussing around and cleaner workflow with no bellows, less retention without a thick silicon declumper screen the df64 has, also p64 is quieter, has variable RPMs and the accessories it comes with are very nice as well. But a lot more money.
Basically the niche and eureka are probably closer together taste wise since I find eureka burrs to blend flavours together in a conical like fashion although body and mouth feel and workflow ease of use is gonna be a lot better on niche zero. P64 is about as nice to work with as a niche zero but p64 is high clarity the niche is higher body. Both would be a perfect combo. Havent watched the video yet so curious what they say if it correlates with my findings.
side question: what's the name of that scale?
That was exhausting right eenuff. But you got there.
😂 thanks for watching
Am I the only one who still likes grinder that comes with hopper? Dun really care abt retention
DF64 gang
Protip: you don't need any of the mods prescribed in this video
Anyone know if these were seasoned?
All were seasoned grinders - but not, grinders that were "Fresh out of the box - seasoned in the exact same way".
Great video! Thank you!
You're welcome 😀
Now that some reviewers got their hands on a DF83 grinder, what is the verdict between the DF83 and the Niche Zero for espresso coffee? Thanks for all the great videos!
I'd be close to saying DF83 for the win. Since this video - I have no qualms replacing burrs with a better set, and chasing optimal performance in a grinder - the DF83 is a great grinder out of the box, however SSP are working on newer 83mm burrs, which is just too goo dto ignore!
JUNE 2024 - EUREKA SD STILL WAY TOO MUCH VIBRATION. I purchased this grinder new in Australia. I had read all about the first batch's vibration issues, and that they'd been resolved. Sadly, these ORO Single Dose units still have 3-4 times the vibration of Eureka's upright grinders, even vs the XL with same 65mm burr set. I was shocked and disappointed, so I drove to the distributor to compare the Eureka range. The vibrations on their display Single Dose were almost as bad as the one shipped to me. I believe it is a fundamental flaw with the 15 degree tilt of the motor.
Thanks for a great video especially the part that compares their taste profiles. I was considering the Oro or DF64 since Niche shipping posts a challenge for my country. After this video, I’m reconsidering knowing Niche gives the fullest body. Do you think changing the DF64’s burr set to SSP from its stock burr set helps with giving a fuller body?
Thanks for watching! No, the SSP burrs are only going to magnify the clarity and cleanliness of the coffee, speed up grind times -as well as extend the overall peak performance of the burrs themselves. So if body, texture and a lingering aftertaste is your preferred Flavour profile, I'd be looking at a Conical Burr grinder for sure.
Thanks, @@AlternativeBrewing Great to learn these burr characteristics. I have a much better idea of what to get now. Once again, appreciate the video.
I'm shopping a new grinder. I'm sorry to say that I feel such video (and many others including james Hoffman review) is a publicity for the niche. I have hard time to believe a recent grinder company produces products better products than Eureka who has been fabricating grinders for more than 100 years. That's besides Italy is the espresso home
I see where you're coming from. It's akin to an Apple or Android dilema 😂
How does this compare to my Breville Smart Grinder?
These are all better in every way, with a bigger pricetag...
@@Komputiker I thought that Breville is superior. I have the best machine available from them. The dual boiler.
@@HaloFreaker The Breville grinder is better if you're looking to fill the hopper with beans and use a timer for on-demand grinding, which none of these support. But in terms of grind quality, retention etc, these three are all better.
And of course the Dual Boiler is an espresso machine, so apples to oranges in the context of a grinder comparison.
I would've gotten the Niche, if it weren't for the ridiculous price. With customs and taxes the thing will cost around 700-800 €. It is a great grinder, but it is not a 700 € grinder.
For that money I can get a DF64 with SSP burrs.
I will go for the DF64, or wait for the Timemore Sculptor 064S, if that one lives up to its promises.
The fact that on your website the df64 is currently almost 1/3 the price of the niche, it makes it hard to consider them direct competitors!
this is true
Really liking my Oro SDG. Don’t care for the look of niche, or the fact that it’s a couple years old and made in China, but somehow still has a waitlist. The wait would have actually been shorter for the niche than the Oro, but I love the angular look and black color with wood accents.. also I’m pretty sure, after seeing many other reviews on YT, that I got lucky with my order. I’m getting .00-.02 retention max and it sounds much quieter then what I see in reviews. The fact that the world seems so obsessed with Niche is also a turn off for me personally. I’m glad so many people enjoy it though. if they release a new version in the future I’ll pick it up, but for now I’m definitely happy with the Oro ;) ☕️☕️
I really want/wanted the Oro too. The aesthetic was a big part of it, and I don’t love the look of the Niche.
The vibration issues and lack of versatility in the pour over range (and grind size knob changing setting mid-grind due to heavy vibrations) were the deciding problems for me. Clogging, retention, loose lid/bellows fitment, strange manual gate, and recycled front panel with unused portafilter holder clip area and non-functional button were also quite disappointing turn offs. It’s like they nailed elegance in the aesthetic design, but missed big time in functional design.
I really wanted to love it, but today I bought a Niche. Hopefully Eureka will iron out the issues with a version 2. If they do I may even still get one in the future. It’s an exceptionally beautiful machine with great potential, I think it deserved some more R&D time before they released it. Good to hear you’ve had a positive experience with yours though for sure. That makes me more optimistic.
The original KitchenAide food mixers were well made beasts, but then the company got bought out and cheaper internals were used. To get the same mixer today you have to buy a larger and more expensive commercial version from another company. I could see the same happening to Niche, given its popularity and reputation.
keep in mind that the decibel measure is logarithmic- that means that 3 db more is a significant amount so - the niche is quite a bit quieter.
This is true! Thanks so much!
great jobs !!!
Looks 1# Niche 2# Eureka 3# DF64
Niche Zero: ~twice as quiet, ~twice as long to grind. Note: 3dB = perceived doubling of volume
I think I'm gonna get one, will change mind tomorrow for sure
weirdly it tasted like 92% Somali choc to me, hints of quality streets blue bonbon
I'm not a super taster by any means, and I do prefer med/dark roasts with chocolate/nutty notes,low/no acidity.... but I HATE the look of the Niche (and don't love that you can't put a bellow on it.
Would it be a mistake to get an Oro, Specialita, or something similar? Basically every reasonably affordable conical grinder people espouse has something I HATE (the Niche's design, the DF64's god awful screeching sound while grinding...), but I don't want to waste my money on a grinder that turns out a drink I won't like
The obvious winner here is the DF64, it's comparable to the other two and it's significantly cheaper.
Any recommendation for a grinder that includes a list of mods and add ons required to deliver good coffee is no real recommendation.
Fair point - the DF64 is great without all of these suggestions - it seems these mods - are add-ons making a great grinder close to perfect - (this is my understanding of it). I've been very happy with the results from the DF64
those law and order transitions always scare the shit out of me
😂 flashbacks ?
€420 for the df64 vs €600 for the Oro and €745 for the niche. This is a pointless comparison video given the huge variance in prices. It also really makes me question what’s going on behind the scenes with so many youtubers recommending the niche over products nearly half the price.
AWe have a saying, you get what you pay for 😂 The DF64 makes the perfect investment - but the NIche is a great grinder that has stood the test of time with its performance & is priced accordingly
I think it is mostly because it's not a big price difference from a pro point of view, while from a consumer point of view, it kinda is
Here in Germany the price for the Niche would be about 780 €, shipping and tax included. And thanks to inflation it's getting even more expensive 😫.
@@andema83 it's 1200€ equivalent in Aus, if you buy from this company. If you buy direct from Niche it's more like 800€
Eureka single dose > niche + d64
great combo
Batter acid hahahah
I'll give you the constructive criticism. The law and order transitions were really weird and out of place for a video like this. Every time I started to enjoy the video again I got reminded about murder and pedophiles...The taste comparison with flavor notes didn't really make sense (why is it relevant?) to me either so I stopped watching at that point. I wanted to enjoy the video more. I enjoyed your explanations and insight!
Much appreciated! Thanks for watching.
@@AlternativeBrewingsome dumbass comments, don’t listen to that lol. Was funny and easy watcy
Holy shit what a damn baby. Crazy that people like you exist. How could you complain about something SO minor
Flavor notes in the taste comparison would be to give you an idea of what the differences they might have found in using the different grinders with different burrs on the SAME bean. This is a huge reason why people would considering experimenting with different burrs and burr geometries.
+1 for flavour notes, very helpful to understand what’s happening for each burr set
If only the Niche or DF64 weren't made in China, I would much rather support countries which aren't threatening/supporting war.
this is some real high level bullshit i must say, but whatever sells your product amirite? haha lol end time capitalism is funny
Thanks for watching!
The Niche and the D64 are either a niightmare or 30 percent more in Europe..while the Eureka is actually cheaper than you would get it north america...I can get the oro all in for 550 euro....the D64 (new better version) 520....its 400 dollars in the states. So if the ORO and the d64 (new version) are the same price.....what to do?
DF64 with better burrs 👌 Worth it. Not looking to chase a better burr set - and want to brew mainly milk based Espresso - Oro is a great Grinder. I have one and it's been fantastic
Phenomenal review. Thank you.
My pleasure!