Year of Hell Indepth Analysis (SuperCut)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2019
- What's up Lore Masters, this is combining the three videos I did a while back.
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Hey Guys, this is the conglomeration of the three episodes I did of the Year of Hell into a super cut for those who want to watch it back to back.
Ah. I was thinking this was a re-upload. That, or I've suddenly become immune to the temporal effects of some sort of time ship because this is definitely not the first time of I've this ;)
I much prefer this type of upload, as compared to the many shorter ones.
MAY BE IT IS BETTER IF YOU DIAL DOWN THE FREQUENT SNARKY SIDE COMMENTS IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR EXPLANATION VIDEOS
YOU WILL COME A CROSS LESS AS A DOUCHE
The Best Voy that almost happened.
Tactile functions, that means you can feel what's going on, not tactical which is the information itself. Very much enjoying your videos though, keep up the good work
Should have been a whole season arc.
It would have been great...potentially great
In those days it was not the done thing and most people hated DS9 arcs calling it space opera, but who had the last laugh
just like Star Trek Enterprise Season 3
Yeah, people back them were begging them on their knees to do longer story arcs like DS9, but they refused to listen.
It was actually planned to be an entire season but Berman didn't like the idea so an almost entire seasons worth of content got cut to fit this two-parter episode.
It's okay. I keep praying and hoping that the last 20 years of my life will be erased and not matter.
I still deserve an explanation as to how Red Forman managed to live 400 years in addition to when we last saw him.
@Darth Wheezius Obviously, he shoved his foot up Q's ass until he was granted immortality.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph Sounds legit.
That 2370s Show.
It was all the toxic waste in Detroit back in the 80's.
He's going to kick their a**.
The biggest flaw in the whole Year of Hell plotline isn't anything that happened in the two episodes.
It's a lack of continuity with the episode where Kes traveled backwards in time from death to birth.
She GAVE the damn Cronoton torpedo frequency to Voyager at the time and warned them about the Krenim...and yet Seven had to repeat the scene a year later...
That episode with Kes assumes she did not gain her powers and sent the ship 10000 ly closer to the Alpha Quadrant. But in the real timeline, it should have been assumed that Krenim space was passed.
Kes being dropped from the show was not great. To me, Seven of Nine gets great and all many people favorite, Kes departure was so forced. There also my have been some internal issues that caused a spilt.
Don't understand why KES documentation of her krenem experience wasn't looked at by Janeway and the crew.
@@hopsie9983 I mean how many aliens have they run across? And look how many different ways the Krenim are being spelled here? So even if there was an alert that got triggered in response perhaps that trigger never fired or was ignored because they didn't remember what the alert was about. And since then they had the borg and who knows what else messing with their systems so the alert might not have fired.
“what if” voyager’s kamikaze run didn’t reset the timeline?
Aside from the obvious, I think show wise that might be a great “soft reboot” .
I feel i have to add something here you stated in the first few mins. This may have already been said in the comments im not sure. You stated that you wished to have seen something leading upto the krenim. But we did. In the episode where kes is traveling backwards thru time she encounters the moment belanna and janeway die from a krenim attack. Seven of nine is not on board the ship at this time. At the end of this episode kes pulls janeway aside and warns her of the krenim. Kes also further changes the "original" timeline by both saving sevens life by disconnecting a borg implant with her mind. Flinging voyager safely across borg space and no longer being present on the ship when the krenim attacks happen. That fundamently changes how janeway would normally react to the krenim and these 2 episodes.
I have a theory on future time agents and them intefering with temporal events (or rather lack thereof): They seem to only get involved when people from the future go to the past. The fact that the Krenim timeship was built before the the future temporal agency even existed, meaning that their temporal interference is actually a "part" of the agency's timeline, meaning they can't (and shouldn't) interfere with it.
I've always perceived these time paradoxes kind of like this: Imagine time as a road (and if timetravel exists it's probably more like a stunt track) that we drive on. Time travel is kind of like making a giant "loop de loop" that brings you back at which point you "continue on the journey". If you're not careful, you can get yourself stuck in an infinite loop where you will essentially be "caught in time" but the rest of the universe carries on as usual (this idea is reinforced in Trek canon with the TNG episode "Cause and Effect", where they were caught in this time loop but the rest of the universe seemed to keep chugging along).
So in essence, the time agency believes that this messed up stunt track that was driven on up until the point of the Temporal Accords is essentially their history that leads to their creation. They can't and don't want to go back and stop these events because it could very well cause themselves never to exist. Again, it only seems that they get involved when future players go to the past.
@Justin Last I know my comment was verbose, but that's because the simple concept that you've managed to condense my words into is lost upon many many people. xD
Wow, I had no idea that the President of the Federation lived in the Delta Quadrant.
So thats why janeway is so crazed hearing her little friends all the time
I have an explanation as to why you could determine political boundaries: subspace beacons/buoys. It would make sense that an interplanetary civilization would announce their border kind of like a border fence. Not to mention they can use those beacons as a sensor net.
Kes told them about the year of hell when she was time jumping. When Voyager pulled up to the Krenium space should have prepared for this event. Tuvok should had prepared the shields for the Kernium weapons. Janeway should have respected their space or strike a deal with them. Picard and crew would have sorted all this out within the first day.
Could have been worse
Sisko would have committed genocide
Kes leaving the ship is what changed everything. Even though she did warn them of everything that happened in her time.
The writers really changed Janeway once they ran into the Borg. She seemed like a different person from that point on.
THANK YOU!! She gave them the damn frequency for the torpedos!
Farscape season 3 is the example of how to do a dark season successfully. Divide the crew, potato between them, giving each group a whole episode at a time while also alternating which groups will get lighter episodes. The tragedies of season 3, and having a Crichton in each group, made it supremely watchable.
If the Krenim captain really wanted to do good, he could have whipped out The Borg from existence.
You're on a roll today LR, great work👍
I really wish they would have made this more than just a 2 part thing.
There was an episode in season 2 where Voyager was stuck in a spatial distortion. It was aliens messing with them, and they downloaded several terraquads of data to Voyager's computers, including vast star charts, enough to warrant the eventual building of stellar cartography. So yes, the computer does know where they are before they get there.
The Krenim could have stopped the Borg before they gained a foothold in the Delta Quadrant.
how so was there some rock that could be wiped out that would of stopped the borg ...also if they don't get super powerful in the delta it would of been in an other
For all we know the Krenim technology was developed in response to the Borg, making it dangerous to eliminate them.
I think they'd need to know a point of origin though. The actual starting point of the Borg.
@@DesignIncase What year was ST:TMP?
That year.
I doubt they'd try because of the risk of the timeship being assimilated.
22:12 I love this scene's interaction between Insaneway, Shoulder-Cowboy, and the spider (Shoulder-Adam?). If only I could like more than once.
The spider dosent have a name
She was talking to Shoulder Atom
TBF If I remember correctly, that scene where blind Tuvok takes his place at Tactical he says something about turning on a "tactile display" or something (basically brail mode) so he can feel the buttons.
It’s also a tactical station..
This episode had so many issues (and the time changes were the aspects that made the most sense and that's saying something).
Just a few more issues.
1. When Janeway first encounters the Krenim space, they tell her the space is disputed she says "screw you I'm going to go through anyway". At the end, the same interaction ends in her saying "Ok We will go around" even though on other occasions she has gone thorough other's space without a care.
2. I know the video did try to explain it away but it still is an issue that Janeway didn't hightail it out of there where she found out how bad it actually was, and when she was hiding in the nebula, 7 of 9 was totally right. Janeway does have an issue with letting her pride get in the way.
3. There are a number of plot-holes related to Kes. Why did she not give them the code and instead they had 7 and Tuvok do it? Why did Kes not throw Voyager past Krenim space in "the Gift" when she threw them past Borg space? Why is it they meet the Krnim at about the same time they did in Kes's timeline if she threw them forward? Did they find a shortcut in that other timeline?
4. One thing that bugs me, how does the ship take such a beating and still manage to maintain most vital systems as well the entirety of the main cast? It was goign to reset anyway and I think even the audience knew this, so why not kill some off for more impact, they did it with Kes's timeline. We have seen star-fleet ships destroyed for much less, even Voyager in alternate timelines. Oh and the whole Tuvok only being blinded by a torpedo 10 feet away from him.
Wow. That intro was awesome!
What I personally like about this story arc is the simplicity and logic behind the solution. The Krenim Weaponship is all about erasing a detail from history to change it. And the only piece of the puzzle Annorax never considers in his calculations is his ship. He, and later Chakotay, are so focused on solving time with this weapon, that they don't see that the weapon itself is also a variable that must be considered. It's especially obvious in the moment Annorax tells Chakotay that even the smallest detail shouldn't be overlooked.
I always found that the solution given in the end, that the destruction of the timeship restores the timeline, is nothing but obvious. It could be that it is too obvious to see, as time-theories have always been one of my favorites, so I totally dug into this idea behind the weapon ship, when I first saw the episode. Story flaws aside, the idea of changing a detail and how that would affect ... everything, is fascinating.
One of the interesting things about the ship is actually, and it's never really elaborated on how that is possible, that the ship exists "outside of time" and it is indicated that the ship is operating for an extremely long time at that moment. And that is a hell of a complex problem. It's very easily said, but try to explain "outside of time".
Because clearly time passes on the ship, so is it a "ship in the bottle" type of situation? But then they seem to be within the "normal" flow of time outside the ship, but are they just not affected by the effects of time?
So many questions an each answer only leads to more questions. Time travel only causes plausibility problems, unless one would consider either that each possible decision made would create a whole separate string of existence, which would imply that there's a exponantially growing number of parallel universes, fuck yeah, or that it is actually a closed system in which every decision made has always been made that way, making time travel not into a factor that actually changes things but has to be.
Which would also mean that temporary changes that are later reversed are actually not that temporary but are literally meant to exist, but this would also completely render the idea of free will obsolete. Even if you now decide to do nothing anymore, because you have no will to decide anything, that would've been how it always was and always be. Duh. Which would be an extremely problematic mindset if this isn't the case.
Like seriously, time travel is the most f'cked up topic that exists. Ever.
If Voyager did what you said about going around Krenim space the episode would have been over in ten minutes and Paramount is not paying the writers to do that, a complete story is necessary to fill the time slot
I think that these episode's combined with Kes' show an interesting way that time works in star trek. It shows that even if something is changed or removed it still happens if in a different time line. The time ship doesn't destroy a time line but move it into a new time line based on its calculations. The ultimate destruction ofvthe time ship put us back in a time line where it doesn't exist it also shows that Kes' travel through time affects them main time line because instead of just going through the contested space Janeway listened and remembered to just go around and not possibly enter the "Year of Hell"
I love year of hell. One of my fav. Shouldn't though when they reach earth star fleet command is like "you were gone 8 years" and janeway would be like "naw it was 7 right?"
Two nacelles? I'd say they figured it out since many older tos vessels had just one.
"Need 2 nacelles to sustain a warp field"
The freedom and Kelvin class say otherwise
Thank you for the supercuts. I drive 4 hours a day for work, so these help me keep awake.
Glad you enjoy
@@LoreReloaded hey, thanks for replying. You do some pretty awesome work sir. Keep it up!
When Tuvok uses his tactical station he uses a "tactile interface" (not "tactical that he can feel") there are plenty of tactile interfaces for blind programmers, etc. those things do exist, (except far less fancy). You probably misheard when Tuvok orders the computer to enable the "tactile interface", thinking it was "tactical interface".
No worries, but the writers actually did make sense there.
Yeah, it was established that consoles could use haptics back in Next Gen. There are species in Starfleet that don't even HAVE eyes.
This one was really good, tough the holo-deck wars was really fun to! ;D
The reason people like year of hell is that it's what Voyager could have been. The whole ship getting trashed and barely holding together while they slowly bleed crew would have been an interesting concept.
Wohoo! New episode
everytime you put LORE RELOADED on screen, I read GORE RELOADED, think my brain misfires today
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Kes already found the chroniton variance when she was doing the jumping back through time? Janeway said that she would brief Kes on what happened and they just ignore the fact they already know it and risk both Seven, Tuvok and Voyager to obtain something they already have??
Yea that could have prevented much of it. Plus Kes could also have thrown them past Krenim space in the Gift.
I was just thinking of both of these issues.
With the large amount of changes done in just one year, a reset of the past 200 years (if I recall correctly) must have unimaginable consequences for the universe as a hole.
well destroying the ship erased the paradoxes caused by it. The original timeline was restored but no doubt there would be ripples given how much had changed
Prime directive wound’t apply to them because they have warp capacity?
Yeah, if this was meddling with pre-warp civilisations it would be covered by the prime directive. But that was the scope of it. Belligerents with warp travel are an entirely different matter.
The second part of the prime directive is to not interfere with the internal affairs of any empire
perhaps 7 of 9 is a crenim change in voyagers timeline since she basically took kes's place. kes was there during the year of hell in at least one timeline. she warned the captain about the crenim, she could have been taken out by some change
time cops don't like Annorax , so he doesn't like time cops.
also he's secretly best buddies with Captain Jellico , who became governor of Mars and also secretly controlled the Federation temporal police so that they won't touch Annorax
Or maybe the time cops were one of his first victims. Perhaps they tried to stop him, but got defeated in the process. This would enhance his formidability factor.
I love your intro music
If you need two Warp nacelle for warp-drive what about the USS Firebrand which only has one standard?
I love how youre not biast like the standard fan of seeing the federation as always the righteous good guys and everyone else the evil minions in the order of things, its not so black and white on paper in star star trek and you express this nicely, i commend you
I know I've heard someone say this before (may even be Lore Reloaded. I can't remember), but I agree with whomever is it; The Year of Hell should have been a season long arc.
I think it makes sense for the starfleet crew to not know about the fenix because they were pushed to the delta quadrent in 2371 and the second borg attack was in 2373
Ya, I was thinking about posting a comment about that myself. I really didn't get the issue he had with that.
At roughly 2 mins and a half, the Astrometrics lab contains information programmed from Seven’s Borg knowledge and the resistance quotient is based on their resistance to Borg assimilation, which is rather obvious given who is saying it
Drunk me agrees....
Ummmmm do we riot? Or just correct?
Smoke a bowl is my vote 🦝🦝🦝
Captain Chakotay with Janeway pulling a Neegan from the brig. Right?! Suddenly this show is awesome!
First thought; In the future were the Krenum(sp?) part of the temporal accords (signed members)?
Did the Krenum create any long term "negative" effect to the prime timeline, outside their quadrant?
The time agents had no need to "interfere", knowing the result of the regional effects to their timeline. ;-)
Before Kess left the ship, in season 3, she briefed Janeway about the Krenium and that they would encounter them in a few months...what happened to that information? In the extreme damage of the ship in the nebula, they could certainly have used a few " borg drones" to help with repairs....
Captain Kathryn Insaneway . . Love It . :-)
The time agents likely left it alone because Janeway fixed it without a time agent stepping in. If she fixed the issue without intervention by time agents, the time line would likely reflect that and show the actual end result.
This 1 two part episode is better than all off Picard and discovery in every way
What discovery scene was inspired by the delayed detonation of the lodged torpedo?
I have to disagree on your point about Starfleet classifying the Battle of Sector 001 from First Contact. As hard as that would be when a lot of the battle took place on Earth’s doorstep and involved dozens if not hundreds of Starfleet ships, there really wouldn’t be any need. Just because Seven knew about it when Kim and Torres didn’t doesn’t mean anything. Kim and Torres have been lost on Voyager since 2371 (about 3 years as of this episode) and First Contact was in 2373, with Seven leaving the Collective in 2374. So Seven would know, but Kim and Torres would have no way to. Only thing that doesn’t work is that the Borg in First Contact didn’t finish their deflector dish beacon and so the 24th century Borg shouldn’t know what went on in 2063, unless we count the signal from the ENT episode.
I do agree though that this episode should have been Voyager the series. maybe not with the Krenim all the time, but should have been more BSG-esque, with the ship in need of serious repair, the crew dead/injured/fighting, no supplies and it being a struggle for survival. Voyager’s journey should have been like the Equinox’s!
i wish they had make this a season long arc. That would have been amazing. Even using an mini-season arc.
365 episodes
@lorereloaded hey lore much respect and love bud. Any ideas on ship breakdown for space above and beyond think it would be a nice challenge
I'd be interested in a breakdown of Voyager and the phenomenon of the Idiot Stick. How many times did different people act completely out of character just to further the plot?
maybe it is them that are the otherside of the cold war? or they are the ones that made the tech that allowed the time agents to move and this was something that had to happen for that to come about
Perhaps the destruction of the Krenim timeship creates a new (or the "original" unaltered) timeline in which the time agents come into existence
Year of Hell seems like a good plan for a series, not a two parter.
A season, at least.
I agree with the people saying this could have been an entire season story arc.
Insaneway
Hehe you earned a like
USS Kelvin had only once nacelle and was doing ok. also torpedoes and probes are able to go to warp speed even without any nacelles , so it's not a necessity . Borg ships also don't use nacelles at all
I can't speak to the others but typical torpedoes don't have thier own warp systems at all. When fired while at warp, they basically borrow the warp field of the ship that fired them for just long enough to hit the target.
@@Blasted2Oblivion yeah even the saucer section is able to stay at warp for 2 minutes after separating from the engines . before falling back to normal space
12:09 "I honestly have some issues pegging him"
Can you do a video series where you rewrite each season and correct the issues one video per season. Mostly Voyager but the other series too. I typically like keeping the core idea but rearrange the elements to be more satisfying
Tuvok uses the "Tactile" interface to feel his consoles.
Yup, it’s also a tactical console
Also the tech could be grafting local alien communications and data to compile the different maps it uses.
In short it pieces together the information in the least intrusive way possible before making first contact. Kind of like how the Americans broke the Japanese code in WWII except this is more about mundane things that I would guess is individually less needing of security, such as political borders.
They say in the episode that the temporal ship has been around for about 150 years.
The time agents can't interfere because of the Closed Loop Paradox law (AKA Janeways law)
I always thought the prime directive was only for developing world pre-warp planets and all
Why all the rage about the Prime Directive, which I'm not sure even applies in this story, as I think in all the iterations of the Krenim they still achieve warp capability before encountering Voyager? The crew is allowed to interact with warp-capable species, although not encouraged to get involved in internal politics. Janeway makes short-term alliances and trades with all kinds of warp-capable species throughout the series, just as in other series.
Theory: The Krenim Timeship could not be detected by future time agents like Braxton. The temporal core keeps the ship out of the timeline, so there would be no way to detect it, or the changes it made to the timeline.
Or the (federation) time agents respected the prime directive. I mean its none of their issues since it's not affecting the federation (yet).
I love the spider
Equinox and this one showed the real concept Voyager should have been.
The virtues of Starfleet pushed to the extreme and the need for change and the ramifications of it.
Omega Directive is another gem.
One year of hell was basically the end of Voyager. Then it pulled the nah fam... and everything just did not happen.
I wished we had post timeship destruction Janeway and built from there for always have a foundation when facing prime directive scenarios
The time cops didnt have to step in cause they knew it would be resolved
I imagine that the time police knew the Voyager would undo it so it disintegrated matter
How did the krenam captain live to the time of sto
I agree with the critique of Janeway...but I still like her as a captain.
Unlike others, this was the story line that caused me to stop watching Voyager altogether. The magic reset and the insane decisions by Janeway was just too much. This was when they tried to jump the shark, failed, fell into the tank with the sharks, the sharks ate them, got indigestion and died.
Pity, you missed some really good Star Trek
@@xp8969 I have watched it. While there were good episodes in the mix, overall, it was the weakest of the genre until Discovery. Strange New Worlds, OTOH, is excellent.
It is just factually inaccurate that Janeway choosing to proceed through Crenem space is a violation of the prime directive. The standard for interference with a warp capable species is far higher then that. If you couldn't enter space of another species without there explicit permission, then virtually every episode of DS9, TNG and TOS would be violations of the prime directive, and even if you went by a more stringent, "one ship told us to gtfo" as your standard, then you still have hundreds of violations of the prime directive across all the series. The mere act of violating another species space is not and never has been a violation of the prime directive. If Voyager and sent an operative to the Crenem home world, infiltrated the government and forced them to change their mind THAT would be a violation of the prime directive, because they are actually interfering in the internal affairs of another species, but disobeying a species telling you not to travel through their space is not a violation.
How many times did Captain Picard violate the neutral zones or Cardassian or Romulan space? Those weren't violations of the Prime Directive. They were violations of treaties signed the Romulans or Cardassians and the Federation.
I had a theory about Annorax wife. I believe that Annorax wife had died in the original timeline and that when the timeline was reset the time agents save has wife to prevent him from building the timeship. By distracting him from has work so he never built the ship.
It's a decent theory but I believe it may be incorrect. The idea was that if they destroy the time ship, time would revert to a state where the time ship never existed. Given Annorax's personal drive, I think he used the time weapon without properly planning it out and erased his wife from existence. By destroying the time ship, they set time back to what it was without the ship, therefore bringing her back. The act of erasing the time ship was enough to stop his building it.
You know, there's warm teasing and there's cold snark. Too much of the latter here for my taste.
“Everything is going exactly as planned” says the captain after her officers are beamed back, but two allied ships were destroyed. Good to know all lives matter in the future
I loved the episodes, but especially despised the reset-button ending with this story.
3:31 the prime directive only applies to pre warp civilisations. The space Voyager was travelling through was contested by 2 warp capable species.
Its like an Australian flying a plane over France. There will be no cultural contamination as France already has that technology. They are not being exposed to something they don’t understand or have not themselves developed and currently use.
But if that Australian were to leave a can of anti-perspirant on the Paris Metro, it’d be all “violation this, prime directive that”
@@SportyMabamba 🤣🤣
So you're telling me they tried so hard, and got so far but in the end it doesn't even matter?!?!
I kinda hopped that they would have to deal with this for real not just, thanos snap* everything back as if it never happened.
The episode that made me hate Voyager. If they had not hit the reset button it would have given us one of the best things in Star Trek ever.
I thought Voyager was serialized. They were trying to get home. We saw relationship Grow. Baby born. What was cool about Year in Hell was seeing the ship get damaged. I would have liked to see that through out the series.
One thing the writers didn't factor in was that if time is being changed, how would Janeway be able to enlist the help of other races? How would they know that what she's saying is true if they're being changed with reality? Without Voyager's special shields, they would change along with time. The other species would think she was insane.
Prime directive does apply to warp capable cultures.
Red Forman gets around.
Insanely lol . Admiral Holdo of Starfleet.
How do you know temporal agents didn't influence the situation by introducing Janeway? Food for thought.
I'm not normally fond of the reset button trope, but this episode kinda did it with style. Not only did they hit the reset button, they used the ship to sort of *literally* ram the reset button. Still not the best writing, but this was one of the better episodes of the series. Annorax was VERY well done, but that's because Kurtwood Smith is a hell of an actor, and he can do a great job with even mediocre scripts.
It's funny to hear you talk about it with such mockery and derision and then repeatedly state how much you love it... this is my first video of yours, so it might just be a style or sense of humor I don't quite get.
One little thing. There is no need 2 nacelles a ship to achieve warp speed. The Freedom, the Saladin showed up on some computer screens, and i don't want to mention Kelvin... but... Kelvin.
Ofc 2 is better than 1 and for relatively large ships from this era, like Galaxy or Sovereign probably a necessity to ftl speed, but in case smaller (and modern) ships, like the Intrepid class probably not that serious lost one little nacelle. Okay, the ships' warp field probably much weaker and the ship moves slower in ftl, but in my opinion, Voyager's warp ability is a possible thing and not a plot hole to me.
This was actually the Voyager story I like most, because they are really struggling to survive. Just like in Enterprise S3.
Everything else in Voyager was just easy cruising - and bored acting.
Star Trek the survival horror movie! I can only imagine who would direct it LOL
you avoid the "big picture". He accrued all these technologies by travelling time/space to solve a problem. Theoretical, kept not getting it right, wanted it precisely as it was. a million million possible butterflies, kid