Thanks for watching me talk about this q*eer dragon, y'all!! 🌈🌈(TH-cam filters out that word for some reason, I have no idea why and I haven't received a response to my support requests) If you want to support the show and get MP3s of all the covers I record (for $5+ patrons), joining our Patreon is a huge way to help us keep going: www.patreon.com/dreamsounds If that's not accessible, feel free to email me at dreamsoundsvideo@gmail.com 💖
Before I came out as a trans man people would tell me my voice was too deep. Now that I'm (mostly) out as a trans man people say my voice isn't deep enough. Funny how that works.
Yeah I have a similar experience but not really with voice. I was considered very masculine for a girl before I came out as a trans guy and now I'm considered an effeminate guy.
I started trying to sound more feminine in the THIRD GRADE because I was mocked for having a boy voice. So yeah didn't transition for another 17 years so today I still do the thing and it sucks because my natural voice is actually pretty fucking deep but I can't stop I been doing it too long :/
My favourite bit of the film isn't the short at all but the tour. It features a man being dropped off at the studio by his wife who then proceeds to steal a selection of objects, including a statue of a topless centaur (from, I believe, Fantasia, but I could be wrong on that) and flirting with every. Single. Female. Character. It's wild. Pun intended.
The Reluctant Dragon introduced me to what Foley artistry is. Also the tune of the Reluctant Dragon song reminds me of... "Oh I'm just a little black rain cloud hovering over the honey tree. Just a friendly little black rain cloud pay no attention to little me."
Me before premiere: I can be late to an Unus Annus video. This is gonna be good. Me after the premiere: that was a good look into how stereotypes can affect the LGBTQ+ community. Not only that I'll still be on time for the Unus Annus video. They haven't uploaded yet. For those that don't know Unus Annus is a channel in which it's name roughly translates to it's lifespan which is one year in some ancient language. It will be DELETED on November 16th 2020. 60 days left please subscribe to them before it's too late. hope you like weird content
@@AllisonMuddyOrbsStudio we are profound and diverse community for the weirdos, misfits and outcasts. I also wanna get them to 10 mil in 50 days as a suprise for mark and Ethan. Think we can do it?
Catherine Tyndale 10 mil subs? I do what I can but sadly I don’t have the community for it. Most of the people who watch my stuff are already in the UA community 😢
@@AllisonMuddyOrbsStudio doing the math they have about 3.75 mil already. We need at least 6.25 mil left. That's about 125 000 subscribers a day. That's about 5209 subscribers an hour which is about 83.8166666666666666... subscribers a minute about 84 if rounded to the whole number. We have brought it to 1 million before we can do it tenfold. We need everyone to do this. Get the UA community to spread the word. Call to actions, everything.
There was a thing in school when I was in my teens where the girls would practice how to make their voices higher because "boys like girls with high voices" and me, being a closeted trans guy, I refused to follow. My girlfriends would go on about how they wanted voices like Betty Boop, Marilyn Monroe, Snow White, etc. They would dream about being princesses and how much they wanted to sound like Disney princesses. I wanted to be Vegeta with a voice like Steve Blum. They would say, 'we need to make our voices higher so the boys will go out with us, so we need to start practicing.' I practiced by speaking in the lowest part of my throat at the base of my neck, I would scream in the lowest part of my register. When I would come back and they noticed no difference, I would say, 'Guess I'm not talking high enough' with the usual 'You sound like a guy. Your voice is too deep for a girl.'
i just wanna say i bumped a clip from your howard ashman episode on my instagram cuz i liked it & i credited both of your @‘s on instagram but i may have misgendered u cuz i didn’t know u were nonbinary. i apologize ❤️
Oh, no worries at all! For future reference, my pronouns are they/them. I rarely check Insta nowadays so that's why I didn't see it. I appreciate you sharing it, though!
Sound gay?? Is the statement supposed to otherwise be " do I sound effeminate/flamboyant?? 🤔 This dragons voice and mannerisms are identical to snowflake from Ralph baski's heavy traffic.
I grew up on The Reluctant Dragon VHS when I was a little boy. I never saw him as gay then and still don't. I just see him as an effeminate male. I also really can't take character "coding" seriously. I think people that do are just trying to stretch for something that was never there no different from the meme about how English teachers try to get some kind of subliminal meaning out of _"The curtains are blue"_
I like how bold and personal you've been progressively making your intros. Some creators might be afraid that this would alienate new viewers, but I think it's more engaging and shows your individual connection to the material. :)
Vocal stereotypes are really toxic especially with kids. From experience, my teachers used to tell me and other girls in my class that if your voice was too high, you were too “girly” and some even said we “sounded gay”. Whereas if we modulate our voices to have a more even and low pitch, we sound “tomboyish” and “trying hard”. The way I saw it, if the teacher enforced those standards on their students, there would never be any winning with them. So a lot of us just spoke however we wanted to speak and accepted that we’d get lower grades because of it because “our voices weren’t good enough” 🙃
Camille Whitehead it was an English class. They were grading us for Participation based on our ability to narrate a story. The comedy of all this is now I’ve narrated books for Audible but back then they used to grade me SO low 😬🤡
Kioku Trust me, if I could have reported all the teachers that pulled this or similar BS on me, so many teachers would have been kicked out of the school. But like…my family wasn’t “powerful” or “influential” enough for the school to give a f*ck, so they got to stay, as long as they were nice to the students whose parents were powerful/influential. And they were 🙃😬
I personally don’t see this dragon character as an insulting joke. He’s just the way he is and he’s not killed or humiliated in the end of the story. He even find himself some friends who care about him. I think it’s great.
but. its still stereotypical. did you even watch the video lmao? stereotypes in media ultimately harms the people its stereotyping because it fosters prejudice
@@hornedlilith so, just because I'm a feminine gay boy I'm harming the other gays of the community? Because you consider my personality as an a stereotype?? Yeah, not ALL gay men are feminine. But there are many of us who fits the stereotype and there's anything bad about that.
I do agree that the short film projects the idea that you need an 'ally' to be accepted by a society that doesn't make an effort to understand others, and that could be a harmful view to spread if there's nothing else to it. However, I think the point of the story is that the dragon didn't have to change to be accepted. He is exactly the same, the perception of the people around him changed; he's not the villain, just misunderstood by a group of people who were brought up under the impression that he was evil.
Sadly though they never had to feel like their biggoted views were wrong. They got to think it was okay because one of them molded him into a model citizen.
Fun fact: Most dubs of this short have an added score to great effect. The Dragon’s fear of, well, being murdered feels far more justified when set to a dramatic cue. As for the best dub, I’m split between German and Latin Spanish. German for the best sound design and Latin Spanish for the best performances. Both are available on Disney+. I’ve only seen 5-6 dubs though, so take this with a grain of salt.
Dreamsounds Latin Spanish is a redub, original first spanish dub was argentine but nowadays is very hardly available totally imposible to find. Funny thing about the redub is that the actor behind Dragon (Eduardo Garza) has a high pitch in his voice that help him in this. he use to play characters with “ feminine” masculine voices and sometimes he played gay characters or effeminate characters because of that, which relates with what you talk about here.
Oh I love the dragon much, what a fun design! Never heard of this movie before. I don’t think him being queercoded is harmful imo because he’s not a villain at all, I don’t get any malicious intent behind his character but that might just be me projecting lmao. Hes just kinda himself. Idk, I’d much rather have characters like the dragon than more Scars or Jafars
I'm really bad at writing comments but i really love your videos, they always make me smile, or cry, i'm very grateful for them, you're probably one of my favorite content creators on TH-cam even when i didn't expected so... just...i wanted to say thank you
When I was a kid back in the 2000s, I used to watch House of Mouse all the when it was on Disney Channel. Whenever I watch the episodes, I noticed that there was a dragon among the other Disney character and at the time, I never recognized that feminine dragon and little kid me was like "Who's that girl dragon?". I was left wondering for many years until I was in my teen years and since I was more developed mentally, I decided to do some research about I found that dragon was from "The Reluctant Dragon". After finding that out, I decided to watch it and to my surprise, the "female" dragon was actually a guy yet he sounds flamboyant and made me wondered why the dragon sounds like that. At the time, I was unaware about the LGBT or their existence because I was very naive. Not really sure if there's a point to my story or not but I felt like sharing this.
I never saw the Reluctant Dragon as a gay stereotype when I was a kid... quite possibly because I didn't even know that gay people existed until I was about fourteen.
I love the Reluctant Dragon. I can't help but feel as though I behave very much like he does, and I am part of the lgbtq. Though I must admit the fake death was a bit bothersome. And the end speech always confused me. He never bothered anyone, so why pledge to stop something he never did to begin with? I can't be upset by him being a gay stereotype because of his personality as a whole. He is kind, sweet, has morals that don't fit with the general public which tends to be a great thing. So what if he is fabulous? Who cares if he is queer? It may be seen as a joke, but the dragon is actually quite a grand example of how to be a good person. Despite being a stereotype that many will use as a foot holding as an example of what gay people are like, I figure the best weapon against this is to own it. If people say "damn, you're extra," best to clap back with "I'm not extra, you are boring." "You sound gay." Oh yeah? You have some experience with that, do you? (Watch them squirm)
@@DreamsoundsVideo Animator Andreas Deja mentioned this during a podcast because he wrote a book about the 9 Old Men and he said that he wanted to include that quote by Kimball (Deja himself is gay) but he thought that Disney might have an issue with him mentioning that in his book (which they didn't btw, so I suppose the book counts as source).
@@DreamsoundsVideo anytime! I was just double-checking to make sure that I remembered correctly, and it's the Bancroft Brothers Animation Podcast ep. 31, around minute 29
@@DreamsoundsVideo I can also corroborate this with a quote from John Canemaker's book "Walt Disney's Nine Old Men" : "Ward Kimball particularly enjoyed the outrageously fey dragon [in “The Reluctant Dragon”] because it tweaked traditional sensibilities. The creature is so effeminate, it would make Quentin Crisp seem butch. 'The Reluctant Dragon is a very revolutionary-type Disney cartoon,' recalled Kimball three decades later. '[For] some of the old conservatives at the studio, it was like looking at the Yellow Submarine to them. They felt it was too sophisticated, and they resented the fact that the dragon sounded pretty gay. You couldn’t tell if he was a male or female, but it got pretty big laughs. The first night we ran it at the studio, it killed everybody!'" - (Canemaker, pg 104) Btw @Dreamsounds have you done anything about/mentioning Flower from Bambi? :D Not sure if I missed it if you have. I haven't seen any evidence via interviews that animators purposefuly took a not-straight approach to Flower, but I adore that skunk and am kind of waiting for the day someone does some film analysis/commentary on that cutie :'3 Thanks for making this video! Voice and gender expression is something I'm interested in as a q*eer speech therapist (is youtube really filtering this word out?? wow) and it's so cool to see you talking about it related to both animation and your personal experiences.
That thing about voice...too close to home! I have a very high voice and a lisp left over from speech therapy as a child so a lot of people dont take me seriously at all. People think I'm dumb, even, because I have a soft, hyper fem voice. (If you're imagining Lena Lemont from Singing in the Rain then you're not far off....haha) I feel like this is something that would help with acceptance. Its not just about how you look, but how you sound.
@@godsclown4419 People are going to judge you no matter what. But it honestly does get better once you're an adult. It's just a bit more challenging due to my work with people over the phone. But if my Princess voice is good enough for a call center, it's good anywhere! And so is yours! Keep on living the good life, lisp-sibling!
i remember watching the reluctant dragon short for the first time and my first immediate thought when i saw the dragon was... "oh my god... the dragon's gay!" i am not a homophobe because i am a member of the lgbtq community myself! if you want to know what i am in the community... i am in the q part as an aromantic, or to put it lightly "love does NOT equal s*x for this guy"
People think I'm gay because of my voice. I often get comments like "no you're gay you just dont know it yet". Like I know who I am so hop off. A voice doesnt mean anything.
I loved this movie. As a kid, my family had this animated short on VHS paired with another about a short moose with big antlers teams up with a tall moose with small antlers.
As someone who grew up with all these movies shown to me, due to us having a lot of them VHS recorded by our grandpa, me the youngest got to see a lot of disney. I still think most of how these things then are handled ARE within the adults watching with the children and the WITH is important here. That was what my parents did, I never questioned who liked who by their mannerism. I never assumed as such and it came from my parents not commenting on the mannerisms as well as odd or so, they did simply let them stand as they were. Scar has rythm and a cheeky attitude. Jafar has a certain form of poise to himself which makes them remarkble and memorable. Tho must say, Scar is my favorite simply because it is so much fun to watch him. But all that doesn't mean I know his sexuallity or gender identity, whatever other people would go about there. As long as the person doesn't state it or make it known to me, this is simply how they act. Yes, stereotypes are used in animation and in storytelling. It is specially for short storys important to be able to keep the story within those limited timespans. The one making it toxic are however in a lot of incidents those watching it. There are movies and shows depicting true toxisity and don't show it as a problem but the actual to aspire to state of things, which by far is a big issue. But I remember this movie. I remember how fun it was to watch them find common ground and talk about how to make the dragon not be hated and lonely. That was what I took from it. The motions, the over the top mannerisms...those are fun to watch, probably a lot of work to animate n still fun to do. I always just....saw those characters as very expressive and in a way "colorful" if that makes sense. But I agree that it is hurtful and unnessecary to comment on someones voice when it simply is how it is. No one should strain their voice, we got just that one. And if everyone sounded the same, we wouldn't know who calls anyways or talks to us. That be awful.
Omg I feel like so many lgbtq+ go through the voice problem I don’t even know when I started making subconscious decisions on how my voice’s pitch is around certain crowds I’ve been out of school for 4 years now but it carried over at workplace I’m more low tones and almost monotone
Sweet little upside down cake Cares and woes you've got em Poor little upside down cake Your top is on your bottom Alas, little upside down cake Your troubles never stop Because, little upside down cake Your bottoms on your top I personally like this representation because of the acceptance at the end. They hated the dragon for what he wasn't not for what he was. His promise at the end is more or less a promise that he'll never change. The person who needed to learn how to stop being a dick is the child. He got his fantasy for a moment and then the rest of the village welcomed the dragon, the boy didn't quite get exactly what he wanted.
I adore the reluctant dragon. The characters love him after getting to know his personality, which happens to fall within a stereotype. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that.
a anti trans video was recommended after yours by a small TH-cam channel that was super hateful! i don't know why because I DO NOT watch that crap.... I'm so confused
I think the dragon is cute and adorable ,BTW if dandy means a gay man does that mean the song Yankee doodle dandy by George m Cohan was about a gay man ?
I had a VHS tape of the reluctant dragon and I used to watch it all the time. I didn't remember much about the boy at all and never really liked him, but I loved the dragon. I guess I always saw him as someone who knew what he stood for and refused to bow to societal expectations. Even in the climax of the movie, he was just playing a game while living his truth until society could accept him. While there are definitely problematic aspects to that movie, I think the storyline itself wasn't necessarily meant to be queerphobic and if it was...it unintentionally pushed the opposite message.
O_O I didn't know that the word 'punk' back then meant 'homosexual'! I've only ever heard it to refer to the music punk rock. It just goes to show how much language changes with time.
To my ear you sounds sophisticated and intelligent,now Truman Capote his speech pattern read gay to me. As l sent all God’s creatures love& contentment,do be happy aka gay 🏳️🌈
tbh the stereotypical characterisation of gay characters are a double edge sword as we atleast were shown in media whereas now we are probably less relevant in media than ever in terms of actual gay characters who are openly reflective of those characteristics and the few we do have are straight "acting" due to being played by straight people.
TH-cam gave me a survey before this video and they wanted me to decide which social media platform does the most right for its users and I picked Instagram out of TH-cam or Facebook, I basically told TH-cam they're doing their users wrong.
I'm not gay, but I'm in full support of equality, LGBTQ civil rights and believe that discrimination and stereotypes are TOTALLY NOT COOL. Marriage is for EVERYONE! 🌈🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
My voice sounds like that lady on the phone who is trying to sell you something. Or like a voice actor in cartoons, because it’s very stereotypical. I love it, it makes making jokes amazing.
I watched something similar to this the other day and to be honest what I don’t understand is that these are just characters it’s like when animators exaggerate certain features of certain races years ago but to be honest it’s a cartoon I think with these types of things people should understand although cartoons ‘exaggerate’ certain features or behaviours the intention isn’t to cause harm it’s like stand up comedians who make deprecating jokes about race gender and sexual orientation people should stop taking cartoons like this seriously and just see the humour in them as characters
Thanks for watching me talk about this q*eer dragon, y'all!! 🌈🌈(TH-cam filters out that word for some reason, I have no idea why and I haven't received a response to my support requests)
If you want to support the show and get MP3s of all the covers I record (for $5+ patrons), joining our Patreon is a huge way to help us keep going: www.patreon.com/dreamsounds
If that's not accessible, feel free to email me at dreamsoundsvideo@gmail.com
💖
Before I came out as a trans man people would tell me my voice was too deep. Now that I'm (mostly) out as a trans man people say my voice isn't deep enough. Funny how that works.
Some people are just so picky...
Yeah I have a similar experience but not really with voice. I was considered very masculine for a girl before I came out as a trans guy and now I'm considered an effeminate guy.
@@skeletonviolin3221 You just can't win in the end. Fuck, man.
I started trying to sound more feminine in the THIRD GRADE because I was mocked for having a boy voice. So yeah didn't transition for another 17 years so today I still do the thing and it sucks because my natural voice is actually pretty fucking deep but I can't stop I been doing it too long :/
Just noticed the dragon has painted toenails.
just noticed that, thanks to you.
I always love your singing at the end of your videos, it's really pretty and it makes me feel warm and happy inside!
My favourite bit of the film isn't the short at all but the tour. It features a man being dropped off at the studio by his wife who then proceeds to steal a selection of objects, including a statue of a topless centaur (from, I believe, Fantasia, but I could be wrong on that) and flirting with every. Single. Female. Character. It's wild. Pun intended.
The Reluctant Dragon introduced me to what Foley artistry is.
Also the tune of the Reluctant Dragon song reminds me of...
"Oh I'm just a little black rain cloud hovering over the honey tree.
Just a friendly little black rain cloud pay no attention to little me."
Me before premiere: I can be late to an Unus Annus video. This is gonna be good.
Me after the premiere: that was a good look into how stereotypes can affect the LGBTQ+ community. Not only that I'll still be on time for the Unus Annus video. They haven't uploaded yet.
For those that don't know Unus Annus is a channel in which it's name roughly translates to it's lifespan which is one year in some ancient language. It will be DELETED on November 16th 2020. 60 days left please subscribe to them before it's too late. hope you like weird content
Love how I jump into a comment section and I find fellow members in the Unus Annus community 💖 They still haven’t uploaded btw 😂
@@AllisonMuddyOrbsStudio we are profound and diverse community for the weirdos, misfits and outcasts. I also wanna get them to 10 mil in 50 days as a suprise for mark and Ethan. Think we can do it?
Catherine Tyndale 10 mil subs? I do what I can but sadly I don’t have the community for it. Most of the people who watch my stuff are already in the UA community 😢
@@AllisonMuddyOrbsStudio we can get them to spread the word once more.
@@AllisonMuddyOrbsStudio doing the math they have about 3.75 mil already. We need at least 6.25 mil left. That's about 125 000 subscribers a day. That's about 5209 subscribers an hour which is about 83.8166666666666666... subscribers a minute about 84 if rounded to the whole number. We have brought it to 1 million before we can do it tenfold. We need everyone to do this. Get the UA community to spread the word. Call to actions, everything.
That's "whoops" bit is another bit of an obscure, antiquated stereotype for the way queer coded people spoke. Language sure is funny, eh?
There was a thing in school when I was in my teens where the girls would practice how to make their voices higher because "boys like girls with high voices" and me, being a closeted trans guy, I refused to follow.
My girlfriends would go on about how they wanted voices like Betty Boop, Marilyn Monroe, Snow White, etc. They would dream about being princesses and how much they wanted to sound like Disney princesses. I wanted to be Vegeta with a voice like Steve Blum. They would say, 'we need to make our voices higher so the boys will go out with us, so we need to start practicing.'
I practiced by speaking in the lowest part of my throat at the base of my neck, I would scream in the lowest part of my register. When I would come back and they noticed no difference, I would say, 'Guess I'm not talking high enough' with the usual 'You sound like a guy. Your voice is too deep for a girl.'
Elliott the mischievous dragon from Pete’s Dragon
i just wanna say i bumped a clip from your howard ashman episode on my instagram cuz i liked it & i credited both of your @‘s on instagram but i may have misgendered u cuz i didn’t know u were nonbinary. i apologize ❤️
Oh, no worries at all! For future reference, my pronouns are they/them. I rarely check Insta nowadays so that's why I didn't see it. I appreciate you sharing it, though!
The story is a favorite of mine, of course I found it interesting now. I read the book a long time ago.
Sound gay?? Is the statement supposed to otherwise be " do I sound effeminate/flamboyant?? 🤔
This dragons voice and mannerisms are identical to snowflake from Ralph baski's heavy traffic.
I grew up on The Reluctant Dragon VHS when I was a little boy. I never saw him as gay then and still don't. I just see him as an effeminate male. I also really can't take character "coding" seriously. I think people that do are just trying to stretch for something that was never there no different from the meme about how English teachers try to get some kind of subliminal meaning out of _"The curtains are blue"_
I love your singing so much.
I’ve never heard anyone portray the Disney characters these videos show as queer/gay in my life until watching these videos 😅
You sound lovely
You sound Theatrical
I like how bold and personal you've been progressively making your intros. Some creators might be afraid that this would alienate new viewers, but I think it's more engaging and shows your individual connection to the material. :)
Also, I'm a cishet male who is constantly misgendered and called "ma'am" on the phone, so I relate a lot to what you talked about in the intro.
Vocal stereotypes are really toxic especially with kids. From experience, my teachers used to tell me and other girls in my class that if your voice was too high, you were too “girly” and some even said we “sounded gay”. Whereas if we modulate our voices to have a more even and low pitch, we sound “tomboyish” and “trying hard”. The way I saw it, if the teacher enforced those standards on their students, there would never be any winning with them. So a lot of us just spoke however we wanted to speak and accepted that we’d get lower grades because of it because “our voices weren’t good enough” 🙃
Was it a choir class? Why would a teacher grade people on their voice!?! What a crappy teacher.
Camille Whitehead it was an English class. They were grading us for Participation based on our ability to narrate a story. The comedy of all this is now I’ve narrated books for Audible but back then they used to grade me SO low 😬🤡
Was this an acting class? If not how did voices effect your grade?
@@AllisonMuddyOrbsStudio I see. I wish you could report her to the principle. That should have no bearing on an English class.
Kioku Trust me, if I could have reported all the teachers that pulled this or similar BS on me, so many teachers would have been kicked out of the school. But like…my family wasn’t “powerful” or “influential” enough for the school to give a f*ck, so they got to stay, as long as they were nice to the students whose parents were powerful/influential. And they were 🙃😬
I personally don’t see this dragon character as an insulting joke. He’s just the way he is and he’s not killed or humiliated in the end of the story. He even find himself some friends who care about him. I think it’s great.
but. its still stereotypical. did you even watch the video lmao? stereotypes in media ultimately harms the people its stereotyping because it fosters prejudice
@@hornedlilith I did and I was not fully convinced. That why I shared my own opinion in the comments.
@@hornedlilith literally everything is stereotyped
Hell yeah. Real spicy hot comment
@@hornedlilith so, just because I'm a feminine gay boy I'm harming the other gays of the community? Because you consider my personality as an a stereotype??
Yeah, not ALL gay men are feminine. But there are many of us who fits the stereotype and there's anything bad about that.
I believe Walt Disney specifically referred to the Dragon as a 'Pink Tea Character.'
So yeah - he knew exactly what message he was sending.
I do agree that the short film projects the idea that you need an 'ally' to be accepted by a society that doesn't make an effort to understand others, and that could be a harmful view to spread if there's nothing else to it. However, I think the point of the story is that the dragon didn't have to change to be accepted. He is exactly the same, the perception of the people around him changed; he's not the villain, just misunderstood by a group of people who were brought up under the impression that he was evil.
Sadly though they never had to feel like their biggoted views were wrong. They got to think it was okay because one of them molded him into a model citizen.
Fun fact: Most dubs of this short have an added score to great effect. The Dragon’s fear of, well, being murdered feels far more justified when set to a dramatic cue.
As for the best dub, I’m split between German and Latin Spanish. German for the best sound design and Latin Spanish for the best performances. Both are available on Disney+. I’ve only seen 5-6 dubs though, so take this with a grain of salt.
Thank you for sharing this! I'm admittedly not familiar with the dubs, but I'm looking forward to checking them out.
Dreamsounds Latin Spanish is a redub, original first spanish dub was argentine but nowadays is very hardly available totally imposible to find. Funny thing about the redub is that the actor behind Dragon (Eduardo Garza) has a high pitch in his voice that help him in this. he use to play characters with “ feminine” masculine voices and sometimes he played gay characters or effeminate characters because of that, which relates with what you talk about here.
Just curious have you heard the Swedish dub for this? I uploaded it before on another channel but it is gone now.
Oh I love the dragon much, what a fun design! Never heard of this movie before. I don’t think him being queercoded is harmful imo because he’s not a villain at all, I don’t get any malicious intent behind his character but that might just be me projecting lmao. Hes just kinda himself. Idk, I’d much rather have characters like the dragon than more Scars or Jafars
First comment!! Yeah!! XD i remember that movie as a childhood fever dream xD also, we still have it in vhs
I'm really bad at writing comments but i really love your videos, they always make me smile, or cry, i'm very grateful for them, you're probably one of my favorite content creators on TH-cam even when i didn't expected
so... just...i wanted to say thank you
When I was a kid back in the 2000s, I used to watch House of Mouse all the when it was on Disney Channel. Whenever I watch the episodes, I noticed that there was a dragon among the other Disney character and at the time, I never recognized that feminine dragon and little kid me was like "Who's that girl dragon?". I was left wondering for many years until I was in my teen years and since I was more developed mentally, I decided to do some research about I found that dragon was from "The Reluctant Dragon". After finding that out, I decided to watch it and to my surprise, the "female" dragon was actually a guy yet he sounds flamboyant and made me wondered why the dragon sounds like that. At the time, I was unaware about the LGBT or their existence because I was very naive.
Not really sure if there's a point to my story or not but I felt like sharing this.
I never saw the Reluctant Dragon as a gay stereotype when I was a kid... quite possibly because I didn't even know that gay people existed until I was about fourteen.
Te intiendo perfectamente.
I love the Reluctant Dragon. I can't help but feel as though I behave very much like he does, and I am part of the lgbtq. Though I must admit the fake death was a bit bothersome. And the end speech always confused me. He never bothered anyone, so why pledge to stop something he never did to begin with?
I can't be upset by him being a gay stereotype because of his personality as a whole. He is kind, sweet, has morals that don't fit with the general public which tends to be a great thing.
So what if he is fabulous? Who cares if he is queer? It may be seen as a joke, but the dragon is actually quite a grand example of how to be a good person.
Despite being a stereotype that many will use as a foot holding as an example of what gay people are like, I figure the best weapon against this is to own it. If people say "damn, you're extra," best to clap back with "I'm not extra, you are boring."
"You sound gay." Oh yeah? You have some experience with that, do you? (Watch them squirm)
Ward Kimball (one of the main animators on this film) did say that the Dragon may have been Disney's very first gay character
Is there a source for this? I've heard of those comments, but I wasn't able to find an interview when researching...
@@DreamsoundsVideo Animator Andreas Deja mentioned this during a podcast because he wrote a book about the 9 Old Men and he said that he wanted to include that quote by Kimball (Deja himself is gay) but he thought that Disney might have an issue with him mentioning that in his book (which they didn't btw, so I suppose the book counts as source).
@@newskyapproacher Thank you for this! Will check it out
@@DreamsoundsVideo anytime! I was just double-checking to make sure that I remembered correctly, and it's the Bancroft Brothers Animation Podcast ep. 31, around minute 29
@@DreamsoundsVideo I can also corroborate this with a quote from John Canemaker's book "Walt Disney's Nine Old Men" :
"Ward Kimball particularly enjoyed the outrageously fey dragon [in “The Reluctant Dragon”] because it tweaked traditional sensibilities. The creature is so effeminate, it would make Quentin Crisp seem butch. 'The Reluctant Dragon is a very revolutionary-type Disney cartoon,' recalled Kimball three decades later. '[For] some of the old conservatives at the studio, it was like looking at the Yellow Submarine to them. They felt it was too sophisticated, and they resented the fact that the dragon sounded pretty gay. You couldn’t tell if he was a male or female, but it got pretty big laughs. The first night we ran it at the studio, it killed everybody!'" - (Canemaker, pg 104)
Btw @Dreamsounds have you done anything about/mentioning Flower from Bambi? :D Not sure if I missed it if you have. I haven't seen any evidence via interviews that animators purposefuly took a not-straight approach to Flower, but I adore that skunk and am kind of waiting for the day someone does some film analysis/commentary on that cutie :'3
Thanks for making this video! Voice and gender expression is something I'm interested in as a q*eer speech therapist (is youtube really filtering this word out?? wow) and it's so cool to see you talking about it related to both animation and your personal experiences.
That thing about voice...too close to home! I have a very high voice and a lisp left over from speech therapy as a child so a lot of people dont take me seriously at all. People think I'm dumb, even, because I have a soft, hyper fem voice. (If you're imagining Lena Lemont from Singing in the Rain then you're not far off....haha) I feel like this is something that would help with acceptance. Its not just about how you look, but how you sound.
Damn, I have a lisp too but I'm still just 15, I hope I'll be able to get rid of it if that's whats going to happen to me...
@@godsclown4419 People are going to judge you no matter what. But it honestly does get better once you're an adult. It's just a bit more challenging due to my work with people over the phone. But if my Princess voice is good enough for a call center, it's good anywhere! And so is yours! Keep on living the good life, lisp-sibling!
Ah... I love the Reluctant Dragon. In all the proper ways and maybe passingly improperly. I can't help it. He's all the adorable, all the time.
i remember watching the reluctant dragon short for the first time and my first immediate thought when i saw the dragon was... "oh my god... the dragon's gay!" i am not a homophobe because i am a member of the lgbtq community myself! if you want to know what i am in the community... i am in the q part as an aromantic, or to put it lightly "love does NOT equal s*x for this guy"
People think I'm gay because of my voice. I often get comments like "no you're gay you just dont know it yet". Like I know who I am so hop off. A voice doesnt mean anything.
I loved this movie.
As a kid, my family had this animated short on VHS paired with another about a short moose with big antlers teams up with a tall moose with small antlers.
Devon Stack sent me here! DOTR soon hopefully am I right?
As someone who grew up with all these movies shown to me, due to us having a lot of them VHS recorded by our grandpa, me the youngest got to see a lot of disney.
I still think most of how these things then are handled ARE within the adults watching with the children and the WITH is important here.
That was what my parents did, I never questioned who liked who by their mannerism. I never assumed as such and it came from my parents not commenting on the mannerisms as well as odd or so, they did simply let them stand as they were.
Scar has rythm and a cheeky attitude. Jafar has a certain form of poise to himself which makes them remarkble and memorable.
Tho must say, Scar is my favorite simply because it is so much fun to watch him.
But all that doesn't mean I know his sexuallity or gender identity, whatever other people would go about there.
As long as the person doesn't state it or make it known to me, this is simply how they act.
Yes, stereotypes are used in animation and in storytelling. It is specially for short storys important to be able to keep the story within those limited timespans.
The one making it toxic are however in a lot of incidents those watching it.
There are movies and shows depicting true toxisity and don't show it as a problem but the actual to aspire to state of things, which by far is a big issue.
But I remember this movie. I remember how fun it was to watch them find common ground and talk about how to make the dragon not be hated and lonely. That was what I took from it.
The motions, the over the top mannerisms...those are fun to watch, probably a lot of work to animate n still fun to do.
I always just....saw those characters as very expressive and in a way "colorful" if that makes sense.
But I agree that it is hurtful and unnessecary to comment on someones voice when it simply is how it is. No one should strain their voice, we got just that one.
And if everyone sounded the same, we wouldn't know who calls anyways or talks to us. That be awful.
:)
Omg I feel like so many lgbtq+ go through the voice problem I don’t even know when I started making subconscious decisions on how my voice’s pitch is around certain crowds I’ve been out of school for 4 years now but it carried over at workplace I’m more low tones and almost monotone
This is gonna be great!
Fantastic commentary! I appreciate you sharing your personal stories alongside the discussion of the animation.
Sweet little upside down cake
Cares and woes you've got em
Poor little upside down cake
Your top is on your bottom
Alas, little upside down cake
Your troubles never stop
Because, little upside down cake
Your bottoms on your top
I personally like this representation because of the acceptance at the end. They hated the dragon for what he wasn't not for what he was. His promise at the end is more or less a promise that he'll never change. The person who needed to learn how to stop being a dick is the child. He got his fantasy for a moment and then the rest of the village welcomed the dragon, the boy didn't quite get exactly what he wanted.
The three Caballeros is very queer coded unattentional or not.
I love "Do I Sound Gay"! I was going to recommend it if you didnt bring it up
I adore the reluctant dragon. The characters love him after getting to know his personality, which happens to fall within a stereotype. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that.
Gay used to mean happy, so maybe overly happy guys got stereotyped as homosexuals as a result of changing the meaning of the word.
a anti trans video was recommended after yours by a small TH-cam channel that was super hateful! i don't know why because I DO NOT watch that crap.... I'm so confused
wonderful video!! so enlightening!! the major 7 chord at the end of your cover at the end gave me CHILLS i love it!!
What's the difference with gay vocie and normal vocie I see no difference if I just heard your voice I wouldn't think you are gay
I think the dragon is cute and adorable ,BTW if dandy means a gay man does that mean the song Yankee doodle dandy by George m Cohan was about a gay man ?
I think the dragon is awesome. He’s camp and he’s slay. What an icon.
I had a VHS tape of the reluctant dragon and I used to watch it all the time. I didn't remember much about the boy at all and never really liked him, but I loved the dragon. I guess I always saw him as someone who knew what he stood for and refused to bow to societal expectations. Even in the climax of the movie, he was just playing a game while living his truth until society could accept him. While there are definitely problematic aspects to that movie, I think the storyline itself wasn't necessarily meant to be queerphobic and if it was...it unintentionally pushed the opposite message.
O_O I didn't know that the word 'punk' back then meant 'homosexual'! I've only ever heard it to refer to the music punk rock. It just goes to show how much language changes with time.
Poor little upside down cake 😏
Your cover of The Reluctant Dragon was simply beautiful. It was joyous but tender. I'm blown away!
Kenneth Grahame's original Dragon: Lazy. Likes poetry and sleeping. Doesn't want to fight.
Disney animators: Sounds gay.
To my ear you sounds sophisticated and intelligent,now Truman Capote his speech pattern read gay to me. As l sent all God’s creatures love& contentment,do be happy aka gay 🏳️🌈
woke
I recently just saw this short movie on Disney+ and I really like the movie. And I found your video very insightful.
Rewatch Mr. Toad- you'll understand
No he’s not, he’s just the Reluctant Dragon.
I remeber that film, BEAUTIFUL!
tbh the stereotypical characterisation of gay characters are a double edge sword as we atleast were shown in media whereas now we are probably less relevant in media than ever in terms of actual gay characters who are openly reflective of those characteristics and the few we do have are straight "acting" due to being played by straight people.
Do you have any videos with just your singing in it? I love your voice so much. I find it to be so inspiring.
This is Jake's bandcamp if you wanna have a listen :) jakebellissimo.bandcamp.com/
This was incredible thank you
that dragon got cake
TH-cam gave me a survey before this video and they wanted me to decide which social media platform does the most right for its users and I picked Instagram out of TH-cam or Facebook, I basically told TH-cam they're doing their users wrong.
THE RELUCTANT DRAGON was originally written by Scottish author KENNETH GRAHME(WIND IN THE WILLOWS.)
for me they all said that my voice have an accent and it doenst matter where i go people will just assume i am from xxx country
great intro! haven't seen that short thus far, so this provided a thorough insight :D
I think you have a good singing voice.
Captain hook was gay!???
I forgot about this movie, this used to be one of my favorite movies as a kid. I love looking at this in a new light
I don't think it's that bad
Hes not a dirty gay
Your videos are a treasure! I love your analysis... I never thought of the voice-sexuality relationship
You sound like Mike Pence
Don't @ me, but the horse's reaction at 13:07 will always be funny to me.
"...to a tee" as the Dragon is serving tea. (11:05)
Trinston was here ..
I love your voice *so* much
So is this a movie or a short
I'm not gay, but I'm in full support of equality, LGBTQ civil rights and believe that discrimination and stereotypes are TOTALLY NOT COOL. Marriage is for EVERYONE! 🌈🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
gotta tell you, 'pansy' is still pretty darn common in England...
Yesssss a song again 💛💛💛💛💛
My brother is gay but he sounds typically straight but it makes me wonder about what people refer to as the gay lisp
I kinda lost, you sound normal to me. Normal being just like anyone talks, not putting on a voice or accent
My voice sounds like that lady on the phone who is trying to sell you something. Or like a voice actor in cartoons, because it’s very stereotypical.
I love it, it makes making jokes amazing.
Didn’t know about this little dragon before, great video!
That happens to me too. As a gay man many people ask me why do I sound the way I do but I never really understood what they meant.
Please release a cd or something of your beautiful songs
I've said this as a Q+ and I'll say this again . . . that is one hollywood-gay dragon.
Dragon slayer becomes a dragon slayer
You sound normal to me. 🤷
I'm so glad I found this channel
I like his singing voice
Yessss
I watched something similar to this the other day and to be honest what I don’t understand is that these are just characters it’s like when animators exaggerate certain features of certain races years ago but to be honest it’s a cartoon I think with these types of things people should understand although cartoons ‘exaggerate’ certain features or behaviours the intention isn’t to cause harm it’s like stand up comedians who make deprecating jokes about race gender and sexual orientation people should stop taking cartoons like this seriously and just see the humour in them as characters
I never tried to find meaning in watching the film. I just saw a dandy misunderstood dragon. Maybe thats why i enjoyed it. Try not to think too much