I'm glad you touched on the queerness of the real-life Gerda, because that's a very telling creative decision. They didn't just want a cis viewpoint character, they wanted a cis straight viewpoint character who fussily wipes the lipstick of Lili's face before kissing her, and they achieved it by erasing a historical character's sexuality. That's only become more relevant in the years since the film was made, now we've seen how attacks on trans rights are used as a wedge issue to attack the rest of the LGBT+ community. An excellent video!
Thank you for the section on selfishness but especially the strongest reminder I’ve ever heard that IMPLYING transition is selfish IS actively denying personhood. I needed to hear that 💝
when lily was presented so masculinely i actually related to it well given how masculine i feel i appear despite my transness. i know its not the "right" way to do things but idk, i, personally, felt represented, even if most other trans women didnt i'm only saying this bc i always see a universal degradation of this film- for good reasons- but it personally did a lot for me and moved me when i saw it after i first came out
I watched it when I was first in the process of coming out and loved it but on rewatch now that I've come to terms with my gender identity and I can't finish it and am definitely a part of that universal degradation. It might just be a better film for people who are eggs or just coming out.
Great video. I think the trans tragedy trope is a specific manifestation of a broader tendency for minorities to always be portrayed as innately tragic. My personal theory of this is it's ultimately about reassuring the majority about the "rightness" of how they live.
That's my friend! That's my friend making an amazing video essay on a super important subject that combines her knowledge and intelligence on cinema and the trans experience!
this film is a guilty pleasure of mine. i saw it several years after it came out, when i had already been out for a while, and while it's obviously not a good film from a perspective of trans representation (either in storytelling or in who's telling the story), i appreciated the narrative itself and i personally enjoyed redmayne's performance. redmayne is an actor who seeks out real experience for his roles, and this is perhaps why i appreciated his performance more than other trans folks did, since i had the background knowledge that he sought out the perspectives, experiences, and advice of actual trans women and did research for the role (obviously not as good as actually casting a trans woman, but i think it's a level of respect for the trans experience we rarely see from so high up in the film industry). this is also why i particularly enjoyed redmayne's performance in the fantastic beasts franchise. despite its many other flaws and the flaws of the harry potter franchise in general, i would've watched it solely for redmayne because of his interpretation of newt scamander. he read the script and interpreted the character as perhaps being autistic, so he talked to autistic people he knew and sought out more perspectives and researched behavior in autistic people to try to bring that perspective to the role, and i think he did a wonderful job (at least considering the character was not explicitly autistic and it was purely redmayne's interpretation). (i thought the focus on gerda and her experience over lili's and the historical inaccuracies in the movie but particularly in the characterization of gerda were bad, to be clear). (also for the record i enjoyed tom hooper's adaptation of les mis so maybe i just have bad taste i'm sorry everyone).
I don't see anything wrong with telling Gerda's story as long as it's acknowledged that this is the story you're telling. After all, we tell the stories of the loved ones of cancer patients, drug addicts, serial killers, disabled people, rock stars, artists, etc. Any person's actions effect *someone* else. Those stories are interesting too.
Even in what may be a sub par movie, I still love Eddie for what he does. I am not trans so I dont have any perspective on this movie in particular. However, as someone on the spectrum, I immediately fell in love with Newt. From what Ive seen, he gives his all and works hard to do good with what he has and I still love him for that. (But yeah a lack of trans involvement in the telling of trans history was a bit of a misstep)
i came across lili elbe when doing research on LGBTQ+ life in 1920s weimar germany for school. its so strange to me that the film was based off a novel inspired by her life rather than...her actual life. that’s really disappointing :( thank you for this video! it was really good and i learnt a lot
So let me get this right, both the movie and the fictionalized story from Lilli Alba's life is written by someone who isn't trans, isn't a woman and isn't danish? I can see the issue here.
i came home from cats (2019) and couldn't stop thinking about it, so i looked up the cast and crew to see if i could glean some greater understanding and read the name "tom hooper" and was like "THAT tom hooper?? danish girl tom hooper?? les mis tom hooper???"
good video! im glad you brought up lili elbe's real story; the historical inaccuracies present in the film's retelling of her life are usually ignored even by people critiquing the poor trans representation
But why is it wrong to say she is selfish, or anyone is selfish because they want to transition no matter what? It is selfish, because you do it for yourself, so that you can be happy, it's no selfless act. The fact we think selfishness is automatically wrong is the bigger problem than saying transitioning is selfish.
Exactly! I'm related to a trans woman who has yet to transition because her family has drilled it into her that doing so would be selfish and wrong. She has lived her whole life as someone she isn't purely for her family. Now, she's in her 50's and doesn't think she can ever transition. She's no longer living around our toxic family, but I think the damage is done. I think she's afraid of being who she is for fear of rejection from even the LGBTQ+ community (because she doesn't think she could ever pass). She has been so selfless her entire life. She deserves to be selfish and live as herself.
As a danish trans woman I got to feel misrepresented in two ways! And yes this account still has my deadname... I must admit I was genuinely moved by the euphoria scene when trying on the tights/pantyhose early on in the movie, but then it south... The relationship turmoil in the movie made me feel horribly guilty towards my own girlfriend, despite her being perfectly open, accepting and encouraging.
Being only able to speak from a cis perspective, I hate how much Sadness Porn this movie is. It’s just so freakin endlessly miserable as a viewing experience.
I followed you on twitter and didnt know you had a channel. Whenever you discussed films i really liked it and when i realized you had a youtube channel about films and stuff i was so excited. I really like your channel and you put out really good stuff. Nice work with this video 😃😄
Great video! I really hope that, in the coming years, we get to see trans experiences being genuinely represented *by* trans people in cinema and tv. We have so much to tell, we just need the opportunity
This was interesting. I'm a cis gay male and really liked this movie, and definitely disagreed with you on some points, but on others you helped me understand its failures. Ultimately I still love The Danish Girl, despite its flaws, but I'm glad I could listen to the points of view of actual transgender people on it!
great video! I'm always excited for lgbt stories and loved the fashion in the trailer but when i learned about it's content and framing and historical inaccuracy i was like ah man come on :( I already knew lola was going to do voice work for this vid and then i heared mia and josé!! that's so cool!!!
I didn't know how innacurate the movie was. my therapist suggested me to watch it, and I did. today in fact. and you're correct. it does oversexualyze it and goes the pitty route. that said. there was one scene that absolutely broke me. it's when Lili meets the doctor that will perform the operation on her(don't remember his name), at one point Lili says "I believe I'm a woman on the inside" and Gerda goes "and I believe it too". then I had to pause to movie to ugly cry for a while. I don't know why... it was like someone pressed the "cry hard" button suddenly. and I never had this happen before, this instant reaction. so I don't really know what to think about the movie... on one hand, it is inacurate and portrays the tragic transgender for the sake of it. so ultimately it isn't good. But it's what made me aware of Lili and it made me want to read her book, so the movie also did something good.
I'm going to have to disagree with your points about the over-sexualization of touch and the movie's supposed focus on the male gaze. Perhaps I'm wrong, as I speak from a cis gendered woman's perspective, but maybe that actually makes me more qualified: I was never uncomfortable while watching the film, during all of the shots where Lili is exploring herself. I believe the main distinction is that the way these actions are framed is sensual, not sexual. When I am standing in front of the mirror, sometimes I will pause and touch my skin, tracing along the contours of my form. My jawline, hips, collarbone: it's a reverential experience when I am struck with the reminder that I am a woman, and I am beautiful. It's like...a ritual of sorts, a worship of the female form. To me, it felt like Eddie Redmayne's character was exploring her own form, and coming to realize that she was loving the way she felt in her own skin when she accepted the woman inside of her. I love tracing along the neckline of a beautiful dress I am wearing, playing with my own hair, etc. It's a celebration of self.
As a trans person the movie showed the trans experience through Lilly quite well actually. Plus it is a movie, not a documentary, they leave parts of stories out and make it more entertaining. Welcome to Hollywood
i haven't watched the video yet but i wanted to say that i've been following you on twitter for a while and am excited to get into your youtube content. i've not seen the danish girl (and i really don't want to because of the bad trans rep) but am looking forward to this video!
I'm really glad I found your channel. You're so smart and sweet natured, and I really appreciate your perspective!! BRB, just gonna binge your content while I wait for you to blow up in popularity!
Excellent video, thank you for covering this topic. I saw this in theatres at the recommendation of someone who thought it was great, despite my reservations. It was such an uncomfortable experience, I remember just feeling everything was just wrong
I am a trans woman. I wish I could say that we are on the same page, but at 12 minutes into this video, I can’t say I have many agreements about this movie, except those that are in concept
i just watched this movie and there were some... iffy things about it. this is a great video!! i also didn't expect to hear puma blue in this either you earned a subscriber
This video is great, I loved seeing your point of view, the only thing I can see as a problem is that you keep looking down (probably at the script), but the rest was great.
I don't think this movie is meant to represent the transgender community as a whole. I think it depicts (pretty bad) the story of this character that took two or three things about the real life of Lili Elbe. I also think that the Character of Lili in the movie is quite selfish, they really show her doing everything for herself, maybe one time she tries to dress up like "a man" so she makes Gerda a little bit happier but... that's about it.
I don't think transitioning is selfish AT ALL, but maybe you can act selfish in other ways while doing it. They don't necessarily overlap at all. You can be a charming person and still be a dumbass to some people.
Thank you so much for always changing the lens through which i see the world 💜. Often, as a cis girl, i watched those movies when i was younger really uncritically surrounded by people that praised it. Your work is incredible to help undoing that!!!
I can't help but feel like this film is a great way of getting cis people to consider the perspectives of trans people and shouldn't be condemned. Obviously it would be preferable to have teans representation in the actors telling the story, but how many trans actors are there who are recognizable enough to pull the eyes as an award winner like this film's "star"? I just feel like condemnation is counterproductive to trying to expose the public to trans representation and empathy. Maybe I'm wrong but I would need to have a more in-depth conversation to convince me so...
I´ve recently watched the movie and thought "well it was pretty good and more sensitive than what I´d expect from hollywood. I´ll have to ask trans people what they think about it though" ... godammnit, I had a hunch it was actually bad. thanks for educating me.
Why not think for ourselves? Do we have to have a collective opinion about every matter? I don't feel represented by this community and ironically just because I'm different from the tribe I get banished and called a Pigott.
Fantastic video, thank you for covering it. I just watched the movie and knew very little about it, and at the end of it my only thought was "that was offensive and dumb, but I'm not sure why." I needed it broken down for me, this was just the fix.
9:17 this really highlights these men making the film’s lack of emotional intelligence. The spouse suffers in a transition no question, but the point is it’s not about them it’s about the trans person. To say that saving yourself by becoming who you always were is selfish is a truly messed up way to look at everything.
Can someone explain to me how a trans actress would have been able to portray the unaltered cis presenting body of lily for the first half of the film? This is what I dont understand. genuinely curious I want to learn
Damn. It sucks to both creators and people of marginalized groups when there are so few movies about aforementioned group that they have to bear the responsibility of "representing" an issue. Like, The Danish Girl would still have all of those problems you present if there were more trans-themed movies, it just wouldn't be such a problem (assuming the others would have better representation). Speaking as a creator, I'm kind of scared sometimes of including marginalized groups ppl coz it seems like such a Big Thing (ofc I'm talking about just including people, not making them the main thing) and it's so easy to get something wrong. Which, ofc, is a different situation when you have one solo person with limited resources vs a "big" movie/videogame/whathaveyou - but I see the parallel. Companies being more into profits than due diligence and whatnot - I see why they don't make more movies. It sucks, ofc - let's be clear on that. I see why they do it tho. Now, I'm pondering whether to remove the above paragraph altogether, so if it's bullshit then please disregard. You're doing great work here!
The whole movie felt like a man's severe and tragic downward spiral into his unique mental illness that the movie was desperately trying to play off as some sort of bizarre triumph in the end. it was reminiscent of a "Beautiful Mind" another story of a man's mental breakdown but at least with that story there was a victory in the end as opposed to Redmayne's tragic end. thats not a trans story that or if it was it was poorly executed.
I am not a trans woman so I understand that I might misunderstand certain things. I just had a thought watching your video and wanted to know what you think of that. While I understand your critisism on only cis men being involved in the project I wanted to mention that most actors, directors, screenplay writers tell the story of people who are not like them. Gerda and Lili are painters, none of the men involved are painters. Lili is danish, Eddie Redmayne is not. It is the job of an actor to portray something he is not. Now please don't get me wrong. I personally don't understand why there weren't any trans women involved in the movie. To me that doesn't make a lot of sense because it surely would've made the movie more realistic. I just like seeing things from both sides and wanted to add the possibility of a more positive point of view. I also want to add that so many cis men being involved in the movie also means that all these cis men actually wanted to dive deeper into the topic and wanted to understand the perspective of a trans person. They decided to make this movie and to share this story. They decided to make the topic more visible and to educate people on it. Put aside how well or badly they might have done that I think the intentions were good. The only reason why I watched your video and wrote this comment is I want to learn. See things through the eyes of others. So please just correct me if i got anything wrong. I'm not here to judge anyone or anyone's opinion.
Well the criticism for actors usually stems from the fact that trans actors often have trouble finding any role, so when the few roles they're allowed to play are snapped up by cis people, it makes that harder for them. It is also just going to create a more realistic character if the actor *knows* the experience; instead of imitating behaviors they see, they're able to understand the feelings and thoughts behind them, and it creates a much more authentic performance. With her criticism of the amount of cis men working on this project, I don't think she's saying that no cis man can ever do this, but if you're going to write a story about *anything* you haven't experienced yourself, you need to do research, and when it's something where accuracy is important, you need to consult people who've experienced it (at the very least). So the fact that they seem to have no trans women at all is an issue, and leads to a furthering of stereotypes and harmful tropes
I think the biggest problem of having cis men play trans women and viceversa is that it reinforces the general idea that trans women are just... Men that act like women, nothing more. I get it why you would need a masculine body for some specific scenes involving nakedness, but I also think that most people wouldn't complain if they starred cis women to play trans women, you get me?
Exactly what I thought, but you said it. Nothing is just one way or the other. Movie making is like art. And art can be interpreted multiple ways. That’s what makes it so beautiful. It’s defined by everyone personally. And I choose to look at the beautiful sides of it. But I totally love and respect everyone’s opinions! That’s what makes life extra interesting
I watched this movie when i was entering my puberty, and it made me realize that i could question my gender, thus making everything pretty easy to figure out. I've been on a long journey of self discovery since then, and i finally figured out i identify as a trans feminine non-binary person. Nowadays I'm able to recognize how problematic this movie is, but I'm still glad i was able to find everything out thanks to it.
someone recommended the film, but, knowing it was based on a novel, I bought and read that first. pretty interesting I thought, though romanticized of course. the film however, to me was no more than a fluff piece, just a production-value heavy slice of The Glossy World... rather reminded me of David Hamilton's nude photos back in the 60's... Sunday Supplement stuff. then I sought out and read Man into Woman (Man into woman: the first sex change, a portrait of Lili Elbe - the true and remarkable transformation of the painter Einar Wegener. London: Blue Boat Books, 2004) ostensibly an accurate diary of Lili's life..... harrowing stuff, and a far cry from the 'creative interpretations' of both film and novel......
I am iffy about the director being a cis male, at the very least I can sort of let it slide. But the thing that bugs me the most is that it does look like they didn't do enough research on the trans community or Lily's story. I mean, if you really want the story to make a great representation of a community, that means you need to make very close research in order to give it a positive outcome. I really don't understand sometimes why hollywood always forgets that.
This is a movie not a documentary. 17:55 this is stupid and should stop. These are movies played by actors it's not real. Anybody should be free to play any role they want.
Something tells me if a white man played a famous black man or if a man played a famous woman you maybe wouldn’t hold that same belief. It’s also almost like some people might have more experience to draw on for a role as well…maybe we should consider that. Then again, now I’m just restating the video. One you clearly didn’t pay attention to before commenting on.
@@AdequateEmily That is nowhere near the same situation. A white man quite literally can't be black and a man can't be a woman. But a man that transitioned into a woman can very much be played by a man. We don't see straight people complaining gay actors play straight people on movies. Saying only a trans person should play a trans character is ignoring what acting actually is. Or are you implying that trans people should only play trans roles? Because the other way around should also apply, only straight people should play straight roles. But there are plenty of LGBT actors playing all kinds of roles in movies. Do you think a trans woman can't play a woman in a movie? They are women right? It's not about "experience" they are acting doing what actors do. Or you think anyone has experience living in space or talking to animals... I payed attention you are just in your bubble and can't see beyond the "issue" you are trying to create.
@@AdequateEmily You are not getting what I am saying though. This isn't about them being different. These are actors their job description is to play people they are not. But you are avoiding my question. Should trans people only be allowed to play trans characters in movies and not others. Because that's where this discussion leads, if only trans people can play a trans character the same logic can be applied to everything else.
Some people who go on to full surgery including vaginal Construction have been married and have children. You think they don't feel selfish sometimes? You think they're children and the mother of those children don't feel as though there's some selfishness there at times? It's love that brings it all together if it's going to work at all and the film shows that it's love that solves the problem. Back in that period of time do you think they were transgender people all over the place? No they were CIS men. It wasn't in the news it wasn't in the media men didn't actually realize sometimes that they had these feelings and if they had them they thought they were dirty and they kept them inside and hidden. It's while in Real History in this story she holds up the Gown to herself and realizes there's something more to herself. So in some sense having a CIS male play this part is actually authentic. Well they did change some of the story from the actual history the actual history itself was not that entertaining and this is not a documentary. It was hoping that this story would actually bring some understanding from the public about a transgender person's plate even if they were married and many are. Many married couples face heartbreak and children that are damaged as a result of a marriage break up in the family splitting. If the family can all get together in therapy then that's great, but that doesn't always happen. In conclusion having a trans person play this part and changing the story and to be something of a modern day experience for transgender people would not have worked and it would have even reduced the authenticity of this film and story even further. I think it needed an actual man to go through the experience and I think Eddie Redmayne did a fantastic job and even bother to speak to transgendered people of different Generations if you listen to his interviews. He was sincerely interested in trying to get as much information and it is possible and during the filming went to them time and time again for advice when he needed it. All in all today this film is still being played to transgender people's families and hopes that they somehow will understand a little more about the plight that the person is going through. And I know of several accounts of this happening where it was considered helpful and insightful to some degree. Was it perfect in every way? No! The actual people who were these people are dead and long gone. We can't speak to them, we can't know what's in their minds at the time, and we can't know the pain and love they felt into what degree of each they encountered. I think it's a shortcoming of the transgender people to look at all these situations coming out in movies and stories and comparing them to themselves and their experiences. Everyone is an individual! You don't have to watch movies and stories to know who you are inside and what you think! Yes you can discuss it with your family or your friends when a story comes out or a movie comes out, but it shouldn't influence who you are at all or what your future will be or not. Look at Lily Elba back in the day and she had no one, no stories, no movies, no people in support groups to go to, nothing in Media. All she had was her wife and a childhood friend to carry her through. Mostly she relied on herself to carry through and find that inner strength. In the end this was a beautiful and endearing love story that ended tragically but honestly. Don't be so hard on these people they spent $15 million dollars and I'm sure there's something there that can be useful if people would like it to be. Otherwise I see close-mindedness and Prejudice against people's creativity and others true sensitive craving for understanding and trying to portray the plight of the transgender people for audiences everywhere. That's all I have to say about it. And please don't be ignorant and presume to know anything about me or my experiences. Because you don't. And I'm not stupid enough to share it with the world.
I'm glad you touched on the queerness of the real-life Gerda, because that's a very telling creative decision. They didn't just want a cis viewpoint character, they wanted a cis straight viewpoint character who fussily wipes the lipstick of Lili's face before kissing her, and they achieved it by erasing a historical character's sexuality. That's only become more relevant in the years since the film was made, now we've seen how attacks on trans rights are used as a wedge issue to attack the rest of the LGBT+ community. An excellent video!
Thank you for the section on selfishness but especially the strongest reminder I’ve ever heard that IMPLYING transition is selfish IS actively denying personhood. I needed to hear that 💝
I understand this comment is 6 months old but I have not ever met somebody that has anything close to my name I wanted to mention that
Lol, you will never pass
when lily was presented so masculinely i actually related to it well given how masculine i feel i appear despite my transness. i know its not the "right" way to do things but idk, i, personally, felt represented, even if most other trans women didnt
i'm only saying this bc i always see a universal degradation of this film- for good reasons- but it personally did a lot for me and moved me when i saw it after i first came out
I watched it when I was first in the process of coming out and loved it but on rewatch now that I've come to terms with my gender identity and I can't finish it and am definitely a part of that universal degradation. It might just be a better film for people who are eggs or just coming out.
Great video.
I think the trans tragedy trope is a specific manifestation of a broader tendency for minorities to always be portrayed as innately tragic.
My personal theory of this is it's ultimately about reassuring the majority about the "rightness" of how they live.
That's my friend! That's my friend making an amazing video essay on a super important subject that combines her knowledge and intelligence on cinema and the trans experience!
this film is a guilty pleasure of mine. i saw it several years after it came out, when i had already been out for a while, and while it's obviously not a good film from a perspective of trans representation (either in storytelling or in who's telling the story), i appreciated the narrative itself and i personally enjoyed redmayne's performance. redmayne is an actor who seeks out real experience for his roles, and this is perhaps why i appreciated his performance more than other trans folks did, since i had the background knowledge that he sought out the perspectives, experiences, and advice of actual trans women and did research for the role (obviously not as good as actually casting a trans woman, but i think it's a level of respect for the trans experience we rarely see from so high up in the film industry). this is also why i particularly enjoyed redmayne's performance in the fantastic beasts franchise. despite its many other flaws and the flaws of the harry potter franchise in general, i would've watched it solely for redmayne because of his interpretation of newt scamander. he read the script and interpreted the character as perhaps being autistic, so he talked to autistic people he knew and sought out more perspectives and researched behavior in autistic people to try to bring that perspective to the role, and i think he did a wonderful job (at least considering the character was not explicitly autistic and it was purely redmayne's interpretation).
(i thought the focus on gerda and her experience over lili's and the historical inaccuracies in the movie but particularly in the characterization of gerda were bad, to be clear).
(also for the record i enjoyed tom hooper's adaptation of les mis so maybe i just have bad taste i'm sorry everyone).
I don't see anything wrong with telling Gerda's story as long as it's acknowledged that this is the story you're telling.
After all, we tell the stories of the loved ones of cancer patients, drug addicts, serial killers, disabled people, rock stars, artists, etc. Any person's actions effect *someone* else. Those stories are interesting too.
Even in what may be a sub par movie, I still love Eddie for what he does. I am not trans so I dont have any perspective on this movie in particular. However, as someone on the spectrum, I immediately fell in love with Newt. From what Ive seen, he gives his all and works hard to do good with what he has and I still love him for that. (But yeah a lack of trans involvement in the telling of trans history was a bit of a misstep)
i came across lili elbe when doing research on LGBTQ+ life in 1920s weimar germany for school. its so strange to me that the film was based off a novel inspired by her life rather than...her actual life. that’s really disappointing :( thank you for this video! it was really good and i learnt a lot
So let me get this right, both the movie and the fictionalized story from Lilli Alba's life is written by someone who isn't trans, isn't a woman and isn't danish? I can see the issue here.
what actually bothered me when i first watched the movie was that there were several french lines but not a single danish one...
Wait, THAT Tom Hooper? CATS Tom Hooper?!
i came home from cats (2019) and couldn't stop thinking about it, so i looked up the cast and crew to see if i could glean some greater understanding and read the name "tom hooper" and was like "THAT tom hooper?? danish girl tom hooper?? les mis tom hooper???"
Honestly I'm really bugged by how few subs you have Emily! Your content is always so great and interesting!
good video! im glad you brought up lili elbe's real story; the historical inaccuracies present in the film's retelling of her life are usually ignored even by people critiquing the poor trans representation
But why is it wrong to say she is selfish, or anyone is selfish because they want to transition no matter what? It is selfish, because you do it for yourself, so that you can be happy, it's no selfless act. The fact we think selfishness is automatically wrong is the bigger problem than saying transitioning is selfish.
Exactly! I'm related to a trans woman who has yet to transition because her family has drilled it into her that doing so would be selfish and wrong. She has lived her whole life as someone she isn't purely for her family. Now, she's in her 50's and doesn't think she can ever transition. She's no longer living around our toxic family, but I think the damage is done. I think she's afraid of being who she is for fear of rejection from even the LGBTQ+ community (because she doesn't think she could ever pass). She has been so selfless her entire life. She deserves to be selfish and live as herself.
@@ChantelCarter-cc7cu I agree, I just mean if living a life that makes you happy is selfish, then she deserves to be selfish
It's not selfish. It's fixing a medical problem. Would you call cancer treatments selfish? 🤷♀️🙄
As a danish trans woman I got to feel misrepresented in two ways! And yes this account still has my deadname...
I must admit I was genuinely moved by the euphoria scene when trying on the tights/pantyhose early on in the movie, but then it south... The relationship turmoil in the movie made me feel horribly guilty towards my own girlfriend, despite her being perfectly open, accepting and encouraging.
Being only able to speak from a cis perspective, I hate how much Sadness Porn this movie is. It’s just so freakin endlessly miserable as a viewing experience.
I followed you on twitter and didnt know you had a channel. Whenever you discussed films i really liked it and when i realized you had a youtube channel about films and stuff i was so excited. I really like your channel and you put out really good stuff. Nice work with this video 😃😄
This was the same with me
I actually really enjoyed this film and found it simmilar to my experince. I understand how shit went sideways in this film but still!
Fabulous work as usual! Thanks for having me 💜
Great video!
I really hope that, in the coming years, we get to see trans experiences being genuinely represented *by* trans people in cinema and tv. We have so much to tell, we just need the opportunity
This was interesting. I'm a cis gay male and really liked this movie, and definitely disagreed with you on some points, but on others you helped me understand its failures.
Ultimately I still love The Danish Girl, despite its flaws, but I'm glad I could listen to the points of view of actual transgender people on it!
At the rate we’re at with trans people in media, we’ll be getting a book smart-esque teen comedy staring trans character by like 4009
Keep up the good work Emily! I hope you have a good day!
great video!
I'm always excited for lgbt stories and loved the fashion in the trailer but when i learned about it's content and framing and historical inaccuracy i was like ah man come on :(
I already knew lola was going to do voice work for this vid and then i heared mia and josé!! that's so cool!!!
I didn't know how innacurate the movie was.
my therapist suggested me to watch it, and I did. today in fact.
and you're correct. it does oversexualyze it and goes the pitty route.
that said. there was one scene that absolutely broke me.
it's when Lili meets the doctor that will perform the operation on her(don't remember his name), at one point Lili says "I believe I'm a woman on the inside" and Gerda goes "and I believe it too".
then I had to pause to movie to ugly cry for a while.
I don't know why... it was like someone pressed the "cry hard" button suddenly.
and I never had this happen before, this instant reaction.
so I don't really know what to think about the movie... on one hand, it is inacurate and portrays the tragic transgender for the sake of it. so ultimately it isn't good.
But it's what made me aware of Lili and it made me want to read her book, so the movie also did something good.
I'm going to have to disagree with your points about the over-sexualization of touch and the movie's supposed focus on the male gaze. Perhaps I'm wrong, as I speak from a cis gendered woman's perspective, but maybe that actually makes me more qualified: I was never uncomfortable while watching the film, during all of the shots where Lili is exploring herself. I believe the main distinction is that the way these actions are framed is sensual, not sexual. When I am standing in front of the mirror, sometimes I will pause and touch my skin, tracing along the contours of my form. My jawline, hips, collarbone: it's a reverential experience when I am struck with the reminder that I am a woman, and I am beautiful. It's like...a ritual of sorts, a worship of the female form.
To me, it felt like Eddie Redmayne's character was exploring her own form, and coming to realize that she was loving the way she felt in her own skin when she accepted the woman inside of her. I love tracing along the neckline of a beautiful dress I am wearing, playing with my own hair, etc. It's a celebration of self.
Another bloody brilliant video
Great work Emily, really impressed with the work you put into this incredibly informative video.
Great work as always. I'm glad we're seeing the change.
As a trans person the movie showed the trans experience through Lilly quite well actually. Plus it is a movie, not a documentary, they leave parts of stories out and make it more entertaining. Welcome to Hollywood
i haven't watched the video yet but i wanted to say that i've been following you on twitter for a while and am excited to get into your youtube content. i've not seen the danish girl (and i really don't want to because of the bad trans rep) but am looking forward to this video!
Curio recommended I stop by. Glad I did!!
I'm really glad I found your channel. You're so smart and sweet natured, and I really appreciate your perspective!! BRB, just gonna binge your content while I wait for you to blow up in popularity!
Excellent video, thank you for covering this topic. I saw this in theatres at the recommendation of someone who thought it was great, despite my reservations. It was such an uncomfortable experience, I remember just feeling everything was just wrong
Another great episode
Now this is a great video!
I am a trans woman. I wish I could say that we are on the same page, but at 12 minutes into this video, I can’t say I have many agreements about this movie, except those that are in concept
Excellent essay!!
i just watched this movie and there were some... iffy things about it. this is a great video!! i also didn't expect to hear puma blue in this either you earned a subscriber
Excited new subscriber 💗
I thought the movie and Eddie’s performance was wonderful
This video is great, I loved seeing your point of view, the only thing I can see as a problem is that you keep looking down (probably at the script), but the rest was great.
Yeah I’m honestly pretty embarrassed about the eye thing. I’m bad at eye contact, and I have barely any on screen experience, but I try my best.
Great video. That slowed down CSN sample under the rap at the end is throwing me though.
Thanks for sharing this. A lot of media doesn't age well (even if it had an impact) but without these nuanced critiques we don't get anything else.
I don't think this movie is meant to represent the transgender community as a whole. I think it depicts (pretty bad) the story of this character that took two or three things about the real life of Lili Elbe. I also think that the Character of Lili in the movie is quite selfish, they really show her doing everything for herself, maybe one time she tries to dress up like "a man" so she makes Gerda a little bit happier but... that's about it.
I don't think transitioning is selfish AT ALL, but maybe you can act selfish in other ways while doing it. They don't necessarily overlap at all. You can be a charming person and still be a dumbass to some people.
Thank you so much for always changing the lens through which i see the world 💜. Often, as a cis girl, i watched those movies when i was younger really uncritically surrounded by people that praised it. Your work is incredible to help undoing that!!!
Thank you so much for speaking out
I can't help but feel like this film is a great way of getting cis people to consider the perspectives of trans people and shouldn't be condemned. Obviously it would be preferable to have teans representation in the actors telling the story, but how many trans actors are there who are recognizable enough to pull the eyes as an award winner like this film's "star"? I just feel like condemnation is counterproductive to trying to expose the public to trans representation and empathy. Maybe I'm wrong but I would need to have a more in-depth conversation to convince me so...
I´ve recently watched the movie and thought "well it was pretty good and more sensitive than what I´d expect from hollywood. I´ll have to ask trans people what they think about it though" ...
godammnit, I had a hunch it was actually bad.
thanks for educating me.
Why not think for ourselves? Do we have to have a collective opinion about every matter? I don't feel represented by this community and ironically just because I'm different from the tribe I get banished and called a Pigott.
Fantastic video, thank you for covering it. I just watched the movie and knew very little about it, and at the end of it my only thought was "that was offensive and dumb, but I'm not sure why." I needed it broken down for me, this was just the fix.
Can you talk about the “trans” representation in the new season of big mouth! Thanks for the videos they’re great.
Thank you! Amazing video essay! I loved this movie thanks for letting me know the issues and that the movie is not 100% accurate!
These are great!
The Danish Girl is to transpeople what's Philadelphia's to the gays.
9:17 this really highlights these men making the film’s lack of emotional intelligence. The spouse suffers in a transition no question, but the point is it’s not about them it’s about the trans person. To say that saving yourself by becoming who you always were is selfish is a truly messed up way to look at everything.
loved it !
Watch "una mujer fantastica" please.
I love danishes, especially with cream cheese in the middle
so you would eat me if i ate some cream?
Can someone explain to me how a trans actress would have been able to portray the unaltered cis presenting body of lily for the first half of the film? This is what I dont understand. genuinely curious I want to learn
It looks like there's a face on the flag behind her. (Left side)
There is, it’s a poster for The Godfather. Can be seen in other videos (though I recently replaced it with a 2001 poster)
Damn. It sucks to both creators and people of marginalized groups when there are so few movies about aforementioned group that they have to bear the responsibility of "representing" an issue. Like, The Danish Girl would still have all of those problems you present if there were more trans-themed movies, it just wouldn't be such a problem (assuming the others would have better representation).
Speaking as a creator, I'm kind of scared sometimes of including marginalized groups ppl coz it seems like such a Big Thing (ofc I'm talking about just including people, not making them the main thing) and it's so easy to get something wrong. Which, ofc, is a different situation when you have one solo person with limited resources vs a "big" movie/videogame/whathaveyou - but I see the parallel. Companies being more into profits than due diligence and whatnot - I see why they don't make more movies. It sucks, ofc - let's be clear on that. I see why they do it tho.
Now, I'm pondering whether to remove the above paragraph altogether, so if it's bullshit then please disregard. You're doing great work here!
Great vid.
Is there anything Tom Hooper can't ruin?
Unfortunately, he did not ruin the British Royal family
They didn't even bake any danishes in this movie. I'm so disappointed.
The whole movie felt like a man's severe and tragic downward spiral into his unique mental illness that the movie was desperately trying to play off as some sort of bizarre triumph in the end. it was reminiscent of a "Beautiful Mind" another story of a man's mental breakdown but at least with that story there was a victory in the end as opposed to Redmayne's tragic end. thats not a trans story that or if it was it was poorly executed.
Redmayne looks ao pretty as Lili though, he really gives me gender envy
Thank you ❤
i was shocked when i heard backxwash lol
The best part of the film were the costumes. You should also look into Boys Don't Cry. The real story was 'whitewashed' and more complex.
I am not a trans woman so I understand that I might misunderstand certain things. I just had a thought watching your video and wanted to know what you think of that. While I understand your critisism on only cis men being involved in the project I wanted to mention that most actors, directors, screenplay writers tell the story of people who are not like them. Gerda and Lili are painters, none of the men involved are painters. Lili is danish, Eddie Redmayne is not. It is the job of an actor to portray something he is not.
Now please don't get me wrong. I personally don't understand why there weren't any trans women involved in the movie. To me that doesn't make a lot of sense because it surely would've made the movie more realistic. I just like seeing things from both sides and wanted to add the possibility of a more positive point of view.
I also want to add that so many cis men being involved in the movie also means that all these cis men actually wanted to dive deeper into the topic and wanted to understand the perspective of a trans person. They decided to make this movie and to share this story. They decided to make the topic more visible and to educate people on it. Put aside how well or badly they might have done that I think the intentions were good.
The only reason why I watched your video and wrote this comment is I want to learn. See things through the eyes of others. So please just correct me if i got anything wrong. I'm not here to judge anyone or anyone's opinion.
Well the criticism for actors usually stems from the fact that trans actors often have trouble finding any role, so when the few roles they're allowed to play are snapped up by cis people, it makes that harder for them. It is also just going to create a more realistic character if the actor *knows* the experience; instead of imitating behaviors they see, they're able to understand the feelings and thoughts behind them, and it creates a much more authentic performance.
With her criticism of the amount of cis men working on this project, I don't think she's saying that no cis man can ever do this, but if you're going to write a story about *anything* you haven't experienced yourself, you need to do research, and when it's something where accuracy is important, you need to consult people who've experienced it (at the very least). So the fact that they seem to have no trans women at all is an issue, and leads to a furthering of stereotypes and harmful tropes
I think the biggest problem of having cis men play trans women and viceversa is that it reinforces the general idea that trans women are just... Men that act like women, nothing more.
I get it why you would need a masculine body for some specific scenes involving nakedness, but I also think that most people wouldn't complain if they starred cis women to play trans women, you get me?
Exactly what I thought, but you said it. Nothing is just one way or the other. Movie making is like art. And art can be interpreted multiple ways. That’s what makes it so beautiful. It’s defined by everyone personally. And I choose to look at the beautiful sides of it. But I totally love and respect everyone’s opinions! That’s what makes life extra interesting
Tom Hooper shouldn’t be allowed to direct anymore
I watched this movie when i was entering my puberty, and it made me realize that i could question my gender, thus making everything pretty easy to figure out. I've been on a long journey of self discovery since then, and i finally figured out i identify as a trans feminine non-binary person. Nowadays I'm able to recognize how problematic this movie is, but I'm still glad i was able to find everything out thanks to it.
as a cis woman i saw everything u pointed out. welcome to the male gaze
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Unfortunately, the “memoir” was fictionalized by cis men too.
someone recommended the film, but, knowing it was based on a novel, I bought and read that first. pretty interesting I thought, though romanticized of course. the film however, to me was no more than a fluff piece, just a production-value heavy slice of The Glossy World... rather reminded me of David Hamilton's nude photos back in the 60's... Sunday Supplement stuff. then I sought out and read Man into Woman (Man into woman: the first sex change, a portrait of Lili Elbe - the true and remarkable transformation of the painter Einar Wegener. London: Blue Boat Books, 2004) ostensibly an accurate diary of Lili's life..... harrowing stuff, and a far cry from the 'creative interpretations' of both film and novel......
I am iffy about the director being a cis male, at the very least I can sort of let it slide. But the thing that bugs me the most is that it does look like they didn't do enough research on the trans community or Lily's story. I mean, if you really want the story to make a great representation of a community, that means you need to make very close research in order to give it a positive outcome. I really don't understand sometimes why hollywood always forgets that.
sorta how i felt recently watching, "the crying game" def watch
I'm sorry for commenting and ruining the 69 comments :'-)
❤
I think a 2022 version of the danish girl story would be a much better movie is just the time line i don't like!
This is a movie not a documentary. 17:55 this is stupid and should stop. These are movies played by actors it's not real. Anybody should be free to play any role they want.
Something tells me if a white man played a famous black man or if a man played a famous woman you maybe wouldn’t hold that same belief.
It’s also almost like some people might have more experience to draw on for a role as well…maybe we should consider that.
Then again, now I’m just restating the video. One you clearly didn’t pay attention to before commenting on.
@@AdequateEmily That is nowhere near the same situation. A white man quite literally can't be black and a man can't be a woman. But a man that transitioned into a woman can very much be played by a man. We don't see straight people complaining gay actors play straight people on movies. Saying only a trans person should play a trans character is ignoring what acting actually is. Or are you implying that trans people should only play trans roles? Because the other way around should also apply, only straight people should play straight roles. But there are plenty of LGBT actors playing all kinds of roles in movies. Do you think a trans woman can't play a woman in a movie? They are women right? It's not about "experience" they are acting doing what actors do. Or you think anyone has experience living in space or talking to animals... I payed attention you are just in your bubble and can't see beyond the "issue" you are trying to create.
@@OHCAM5 I don’t think you get that trans women are very different from men.
@@AdequateEmily You are not getting what I am saying though. This isn't about them being different. These are actors their job description is to play people they are not. But you are avoiding my question. Should trans people only be allowed to play trans characters in movies and not others. Because that's where this discussion leads, if only trans people can play a trans character the same logic can be applied to everything else.
Some people who go on to full surgery including vaginal Construction have been married and have children. You think they don't feel selfish sometimes? You think they're children and the mother of those children don't feel as though there's some selfishness there at times? It's love that brings it all together if it's going to work at all and the film shows that it's love that solves the problem.
Back in that period of time do you think they were transgender people all over the place? No they were CIS men. It wasn't in the news it wasn't in the media men didn't actually realize sometimes that they had these feelings and if they had them they thought they were dirty and they kept them inside and hidden. It's while in Real History in this story she holds up the Gown to herself and realizes there's something more to herself. So in some sense having a CIS male play this part is actually authentic.
Well they did change some of the story from the actual history the actual history itself was not that entertaining and this is not a documentary. It was hoping that this story would actually bring some understanding from the public about a transgender person's plate even if they were married and many are. Many married couples face heartbreak and children that are damaged as a result of a marriage break up in the family splitting. If the family can all get together in therapy then that's great, but that doesn't always happen.
In conclusion having a trans person play this part and changing the story and to be something of a modern day experience for transgender people would not have worked and it would have even reduced the authenticity of this film and story even further. I think it needed an actual man to go through the experience and I think Eddie Redmayne did a fantastic job and even bother to speak to transgendered people of different Generations if you listen to his interviews. He was sincerely interested in trying to get as much information and it is possible and during the filming went to them time and time again for advice when he needed it.
All in all today this film is still being played to transgender people's families and hopes that they somehow will understand a little more about the plight that the person is going through. And I know of several accounts of this happening where it was considered helpful and insightful to some degree.
Was it perfect in every way? No! The actual people who were these people are dead and long gone. We can't speak to them, we can't know what's in their minds at the time, and we can't know the pain and love they felt into what degree of each they encountered.
I think it's a shortcoming of the transgender people to look at all these situations coming out in movies and stories and comparing them to themselves and their experiences. Everyone is an individual! You don't have to watch movies and stories to know who you are inside and what you think! Yes you can discuss it with your family or your friends when a story comes out or a movie comes out, but it shouldn't influence who you are at all or what your future will be or not. Look at Lily Elba back in the day and she had no one, no stories, no movies, no people in support groups to go to, nothing in Media. All she had was her wife and a childhood friend to carry her through. Mostly she relied on herself to carry through and find that inner strength.
In the end this was a beautiful and endearing love story that ended tragically but honestly. Don't be so hard on these people they spent $15 million dollars and I'm sure there's something there that can be useful if people would like it to be. Otherwise I see close-mindedness and Prejudice against people's creativity and others true sensitive craving for understanding and trying to portray the plight of the transgender people for audiences everywhere.
That's all I have to say about it.
And please don't be ignorant and presume to know anything about me or my experiences. Because you don't. And I'm not stupid enough to share it with the world.
K.
a sexuality is NOT at community and it should not be
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