House of the Dragon: Rhaenyra, Her Own Worst Enemy
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Visit www.audible.com/thetake or text thetake to 500-500. Let Audible help you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired, or be entertained. New members can try it free for 30 days.
On House of the Dragon, Rhaenyra Targaryen became her own worst enemy. She went from the sweet, timid girl we met in episode one to a woman willing to burn down the entirety of Westeros to settle a grudge against her former best friend. Though she claims to be interested in upending Westeros’ political systems, the first season of HOTD traces Rhaenyra’s path from an idealistic young woman to a canny operator, willing to undermine her principles in order to retain a hold on power.
If you like this video, subscribe to our channel and support us:
Join our Patreon: / thetake
Follow our TikTok: / thisisthetake
Snap: / 6898188394
Instagram: / thisisthetake
We are The Take (formerly ScreenPrism).
00:00 What really happened in Rhaenyra's S1 arc?
00:43 Young Rhaenyra's goals and ideals
03:30 Audible
05:04 Adult Rhaenyra's shifting perspective
07:52 Alicent and Rhaenyra's frenemy relationship
11:39 So did Rhaenyra become what she feared most? - บันเทิง
Visit www.audible.com/thetake or text thetake to 500-500. Let Audible help you discover new ways to laugh, be inspired, or be entertained. New members can try it free for 30 days.
ye
I don’t wholly agree with the first part of the analysis. Just because Rhaenyra wants personal freedom doesn’t automatically translate to political ideals. I don’t remember her ever expresses wanting the same freedom for all the women in the realm. Personal liberation =/= liberation for all
the problem is rhaenyra is one of the people in power. her personal liberation can be in the cost of other people’s lives and morality. for example, her being able to marry daemon is in the cost of a servant who got killed to frame as laenor being killed. it’s the cost of rhaenys and corlys’s grief too.
criston cole becomes suicidal after he realized he cannot save his honor after his own mistake too as much as rhaenyra’s. there is things like dubious consent and all but that would extend the discussion further, i like to be more mindful of the result from that event.
it’s understandable, the way he deals with it considering he came from a very humble background, he’s a son of a steward working up towards being kingsguard (one of the biggest honor) then after he broke his oath of celibacy he was ashamed but he’s still hoping he can marry rhaenyra after sleeping with her for months.
then when rhaenyra rejects him he feels the weight of his actions completely. his violent tendecies came out much more boldly after his internal frustrations just boiled inside him. he is aware he basically have no one in court, rhaenyra is a literal princess and named heir. there’s basically no one that could protect him now, keep in mind he is not supported by nepotism at all. he have no titles except the one that is given to him by rhaenyra.
he almost did the seppuku, before he give the end blow alicent stopped him. he finds new purpose with being alicent’s guard. criston can be a double edged sword. tbh he’s more beneficial if you respect his deeper ideals (even though he broke it with rhaenyra) this is his way of “redeeming” himself trying to attain his own agency back.
@@maharanieh !! Great analysis
She doesn't tho. As long as she has a sit at the table, that's all she cares about. She took lands and titles from two noble women who inherited them and give them to their closest male relatives in the book. In her mind, because she is a Targaryen she should be able to do what she wants with no consequences like the men in her family.
@@viancarobinson4847 that’s exactly what I mean, the video tries to paint it as if she had some grander ambitions to reform the politics of Westeros but that’s just not represented in the show or the books
Was thinking exactly this 👍🏻
This analysis doesn't talk about Rhaenyra and Viserys literally believe they need to be on the throne to save humanity from the apocalypse. She doesn't reject Criston because she personally needs the comforts of the office, she tells him "I am the crown" because her duty to the realm is bigger than their relationship. Same with her bearing heirs and making marriage alliances. She is a flawed, messy character who makes self-destructive choices, but it's weird to talk about that without the context of the prophecy
Yeah it's pretty easy to overlook because we all know how season 8 ends. It's still important for the characters, though, even tho they don't have HBO.
Especially because she debates just letting aegon2 have the crown so the realm isn't divided
Glad you mentioned the issue with Criston. As you said, it had everything to do with duty and what was best for the realm, not the comforts of the high life.
@@nekrataali we don’t count season 8 around here, (or much of 7 either), all of that was DnD not GRRM
@@UnboxingAlyss The one-night relationship with her kingsguard was very "problematic." It put him in a position where he couldn't really say no, and he had no real consent or agency. If he said "no' he risks upsetting a spoiled princess and future queen. If he says "yes" he breaks his vows. If she becomes vindictive he has no wealthy family to protect him. Like many victims, he even tried to "moralize" things by asking her to run away together, as she gave him no indication that she was interested in ruling.
Everyone seems to be their own worst enemy. Rhaenyra, Alicent, Viserys, Otto, Daemon, Aemond, Aegon...
I mean isn’t that the point of their House? They’re all unhinged
I was thinking the exact same thing. 😆 Everyone on this show is the architect of their own suffering/destruction in one way or another! That's what makes them all so interesting. 😁
welcome to the human nature
DeathnoteBB those are two separate houses tho.
@@SwiftFoxProductions
To be fair, Aemond was done dirty. I'd be pissed too
Knowing what happens in the book, I’m VERY curious as to how they handle Rhaenyra’s story. She’s a complex, faulted character and I hope they don’t mess it up by trying to make her too perfect - always hated the idea that main characters should be this unspoiled moral compass, it’s much more interesting when they’re real.
This game of thrones bro don’t worry about any of that
I agree wholly, would love for the show to keep things as grey as possible.
@@jon_ovo3653well it’s House of the Dragon, not Game of Thrones:) and so far it hasn’t been on the same level, but I’m still excited for the future seasons
@@DarklordofDOOM57 it’s called game of thrones :House of the dragon 😭
She’s pretty imperfect… that’s what’s great about her!
I love the Take, but I think you missed the mark on this one. I don’t think Rhaenyra betrayed herself, but matured, evolved, and changed as we all do with time.
Yeah... They've been missing the mark a lot lately.
I agree and also she seemly had no issue having kids like as a teenager she may have bitched about it but as we see her she loved her boys she kept having them .
Agreed. The idea that a child or a teenager or even an adult can't grow or change their mind is frankly ridiculous and something that perpetuates this fandom when it comes to girls who don't conform completely to the status quo like Arya or Brienne. Not to mention it's spelled out clearly even in the show. Viserys tells Rhaenyra that she must gather power and support by getting married and having children, which is the way of a patriarchal feudalist world, even for woman heirs. To be frank, since she had to perform her duty, it's great that she realized she loved being a mother and loved her children, unlike Alicent who clearly resents her children and constantly abuses them. It's amazing how Rhaenyra just can't win with this fandom. But I have to say that maybe if the writing had been better during the big time jumps, if they hadn't made young Rhaenyra and older Rhaenyra seem completely different, maybe people wouldn't be saying that Rhaenyra betrayed herself for getting married and having children, even though if she hadn't done this she most likely would have been disinherited. It's the way of the world when depicting patriarchal feudalistic worlds no matter if they are fantasy or not.
I agree.
@@rianbeegles3349 “since she had to perform her duty”
She didn’t do her duty. Her children are bastards and everyone knows it.
I think you all missed the point on why Rhaenyra was so adamant not to get married and have children. It wasn't because she actually hated the prospect and hated children. Hell you even showed the scene. It was because Rhaenyra was afraid because she saw what happened to her own mother being used as nothing but a broodmare by her husband and being killed for it. It wasn't until Daemon unlocked her fears in episode 4, that she started coming around to the idea of marriage. It's why she actually agreed to marry Ser Laenor, without much prompting from Viserys. She knew it was the best option politically, and would secure the Targaryen reign since Viserys selfishly didn't do his own duty, and instead wed the daughter of a second son that brought nothing to the table when it came to wealth, power, and security. She even agreed knowing Laenor's preferences, and it wasn't because she clutched onto that idea just to have an open marriage and illegitimate children, as they tried several times to have children as the show stated. But yeah, way to miss that point when it comes to Rhaenyra's character. Like you could tell that Rhaenyra was a little boy crazy in episode 1 before her mother died, and then she closed herself off to the possibility of ever marrying and having kids out of fear. It's why she was so blase and rude to her prospective betrotheds. But then Daemon unlocked that fear and she overcame it. So no, I don't think she betrayed herself. People can grow and change their mind. And the fact that she came to love being a mother, and loved her children, was just a plus, because no matter what, she had to have children to secure her reign and to secure the Targaryen dynasty.
Right. She didn't betray anything. She just matured and gained a larger perspective.
Exactly!
Yep, I know people who as teens would've sworn up and down they didn't want kids but had them as adults and love it, and people who as teens said they were gonna have kids then changed their minds as adults. It's almost like people change and aren't beholden to what they thought they wanted as teenagers.
Lol imagine thinking marriage = babies = death and then being faced with all those losers trying to win her hand. "You're not worth dying in childbirth"
Lmao what? Since when does House Hightower not come with Wealth, Power and Security?
It's the oldest House in the Realm, since the Dawn Age, in charge of the most powerful city and institutions in Westeros.
Are you serious right now?
It's what always happen: life.
One starts off idealistic, dreaming, thirsty, then concessions have to be made.
The question finally isn't whether someone can stay true to a predetermined view of oneself but rather how far someone will have to stray.
Bingo
Rhaenyra doesn't grow.She becomes entitled and spoiled with time.
That is exactly what I thought. There is a huge difference between the dreams and ideas of a teenager and the reality of an adult. It ist basically what happens to all of us. One hast to deal with reality and may therefore end up being somebody the former teenager version would not have been too fond/proud of.
@@apieceoflife2732 she doesnt become entitled and she is since the start,Rhaenyra is a pricess born with a silver spoon in her mouth and heir of the most powerfull dinasty of westeros on the apex of their power it would be strange if she wasnt
@@asura7915 Among the female characters, she benefited the most from the patriarchal society.
Women decides not to have children young and changes her mind as an adult, and the reaction is "well she matured".
Yet someone who makes the opposite choice is deemed as making a mistake, being selfish, or, "she'll change her mind". Anyone see the paradigm here?
Is she 'betraying her own ideals', or just growing up and maturing? Obviously...
I don’t think her adult actions are in contrast to her child actions - rather they’re a natural extension of her selfishness to wanting to exist outside Westerosi patriarchy while also holding on to that power
Expectations for female characters are always so insane compared to male ones. Even when they're not, they're received with a-lot less understanding and benevolence
Holly cow that’s a fact catelyn and cerise are mercifully hated when roose bolten ( with Ramsey as his version of catelyn to jon .) is given a pass for his treatment of Ramsey yet catelyn is the one people spew hate at .
@@kkandsims4612 Skylar White is the one outside of GoT for me. She acts like any sane person would on Breaking Bad. She doesn't realize her husband is a fucking psychopath and thinks she can help him, but then realizes how dangerous he is and goes along to avoid getting herself or her kids killed. By far one of the most complex and conflicted characters through the entire series. Can she persevere until Walt dies, or does she risk destroying the lives of her kids, sister, and brother in law?
But fans treated her like shit and sent Anna Gunn hate mail. Here Walter White is out poisoning children and doing business with literal Nazis, but yeah, sure, it's Skylar who's the problem.
edit: OH and Betty Draper from Mad Men. This post is already too long, but I could rant about how Birdy was treated by fans for hours lol
In every show. And using terms like Mary Sue, Karen, Pick-me, and other tropes used to demonize women.
@@kkandsims4612 nobody ever acused Roose of being a good guy. But yes Catelyn gets more hate than she deserves.
I think you forgot to add the fact that rainiera in the show states that both her and her first husband tried to do their duties the way it was planned out by their parents but it didn't work out I think they imply Leonor might be infertile and the only reason you're allowed herself to have children with sir her when strong was so that she would continue her bloodline.
It's clear the problem is Laenor is attracted to men, not that he's infertile.
Everyone forgets that part. She really tried. Apparently in the books it mentions she tried 3somes with him and a man to help him to no avail
Lmao he’s gay not infertile wtf
@@Oxcymoron yes he's gay bu they still tried multiple times and she never got pregnant so it makes sense that he might infertile
@@iside2373 I doubt it because the same thing happened with Renly and Margaery They never had sex because he couldn’t even get it up, which is why she offered to bring in her brother.
8:45 "Rhaenyra tacidly agrees to Alicent and Viseryses marriage" ...have....have you even watched the episode? or the ones after? She agreed to have Viserys marry LAENA, and she didn't know Viserys would ultimately choose Alicent instead when she agreed to have him marry again. His choice to go for Alicent blindsided her (and was a politically stupid move on Viseryses side) and caused problems with the Velaryons and Rheanyra literally accused Viserys one or two episodes later that he SHOULD have married LAENA as he was supposed to. So no, she didn't agree to the marriage.
I was surprised you left out the prophesy that seemed to be the turning point why she decided to marry Laenor and reject escaping with Cristan Cole. In reality she didn't betray herself the betrayal came from the Lords who broke their oaths and conspired to crown her brother Aegon as King.
The Greens are bad guys here without a doubt
finally someone with brain 😭🙏❤️
Weird take. She just grew up and was realistic.
Actually you have a way too idealistic view of young Rhaenyra. She was pretty careless and really rude to her potential allies and actually acted poorly despite her status as an heir.
The character was interesting but she was not worthy of the throne.
I actually think that older Rhaenyra really tried to prevent the peace. She was not always smart about it but at least she tried .
Younger alicent was more reasonable while the younger Rhaenyra was too rebellious for her rank. On the other hand , older alicent was clearly extreme ,bitter and not honest to herself about her really intensions . Older Rhaenyra was not perfect and made very stupid decisions but I appreciated that she tried several times to make peace . And she had in mind the bigger picture (the white walkers prophecy).
the biggest flaw HOTD is make Alicent and Rhaenyra (and other woman character in general) not wanting much power like they are in the book.
adult book! Rhaenyra is so much more "alive" than adult show! Rhaenyra, how she handle Vaemond, her relationship with Leana (completly erased in the show btw), and much more.
while at first i really like the idea to make Alicent not just an evil step-mother, but after Eps 6, her character become so inconsistent. the show gave all of her ambition to Otto.
So, i honestly think the show is trying so hard (or to hard) to make it about woman is "always" the victim. while i didnt deny it, the way they significanly reduce Rhaenyra and Alicent ambition, and not to mention they gave pretty much all of it to Deamon and Otto just make it like a man war, not really helping.
and dont make me say what they do to Rhaenys, the cringe quote from the writer to answer why Rhaenys didn't kill the Green while at Aegon coronation, "because this is not her war", even though this is literally HER WAR too. her grandchildern is bethroed to Rhaenyra kids for God sake
That’s the issue with GRRM making Fire and Blood “not accurate depiction of the real history”, it’s open to interpretation and the writers got free rein to write these characters as they see fit because “the source is inaccurate retelling of the event from 3rd perspective”.
Literally in the book Alicent and Rhaenyra had more agency ,that's why even though Alicent was the evil stepmother trope since was the boss of the book i really liked her as a character,in the show it's like she's too naive . I know the books is based on rumors but I prefer a lot of aspect in comparison to the show
What in the fuck are you saying, it looks like you google translated that whole comment 😂
You speak the utmost truth. This show turned into an absolute mess, especially in their handling of women. Like yes, women in patriarchal feudalistic societies are victims, but that doesn't mean they are forever a victim or they can't work around the system to get more agency and power. Anyone who reads about historical European women should know this. One of the biggest mistakes of this show is them constantly treating the female characters with little to no agency and ambition, making them the constant victims of men, while also overly vilifying the men. Like what happened to interesting, complex gray characters? Why can't they treat these characters as if they are depicting real human beings instead of putting them into boxes? Because what this show turned into in the second half of the season, was a show full of badly written inconsistent characters. This show thinks that they are being "feminist", that they are rectifying the mistakes of GOT, but they aren't. They are being just as sexist in their depiction of women by depicting them as passive victims wholly at the mercy of men. And suffice it to say it makes for bad storytelling.
@@iside2373 so you prefer the less complex version? the evil caricature with no redeaming qualities instead of a more human character with flaws,hopes,ambitions,regrets etc...
I once wanted to pilot a robot and be a super hero when I was a child. Now I just want to finish work and go home. Oh I just betrayed my own ideal. Maturity anyone?
True,
My issue is that we can't really see Westeros through a modern feminist lens, considering how the society and how deeply entrenched the institutions are in Westeros. I can write a whole essay how Rhaenyra's actions are pretty progressive for Westeros and how it shows the hypocrisy between men and women's roles in this show
I wish you would. Some of these essays they've released lately are super bland takes on the shallowest of opinions on certain topics. They need more women writers or at least men who have a bit more understanding of the effects of patriarchy on everyone.
@@carlathedestructor2454 lol I even made a whole power point slide of the gender dynamics between rhaenyra and alicent just for fun 😂
@@nuzhatnayeem1119 sorry what is exactly progressive about her? Or what she done?
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl its not about what she's done but what she represents. Rhaenyra being named heir to the throne despite having brothers serves as the highest precedence in Westeros. And that the royal blood goes through her and not her husband is a big shift of inheritance laws as well. And simply look at how Rhaenyra doesn't adhere to the gender roles that Alicent follows and how Rhaenyra actually calls out the hypocrisy about how she's being set at a higher standard because she's a woman
@@nuzhatnayeem1119 actually royal inheritance going through her and not her non loyal husband makes absolute sense and it is how it functioned in real life. You can say she being queen when she has brothers is a change. But it means nothing out side of the the monorchy.
I agree with the Take that she ultimately did have to change and evolve in order to smartly navigate her political situation, and that in a way her steadfast determination to not give up her right to the thrown, making herself the first queen Westeros has ever had, as well as her attempts to still do the right things even when it’s hard, shows that at her core she is still very much the rebel contrasted to the Hightowers who very much represent the status quo and the dirty tactics it takes to uphold it.
The problem is we don't really get to see that because of the large time skips, we don't really know what caused her to change if at all or why certain people are loyal to her. One thing that is clear is that Raenerys didn't spend a lot of time building up her relationships with the other houses. We see that in the end where she just sends her sons off with no plan, no offers or bargains, it purely on the basis that she has the claim as Viserys's eldest child and chosen heir.
You all realize that the world being depicted is a patriarchal feudalistic society right? That Rhaenyra HAD to have children to secure her reign and her dynasty? Like no one fucking even cared that her three eldest children might be illegitimate except for the Hightowers, specifically because even if they were (there is a lot more plausible deniability about this in the book) they were still Targaryen through the heir to the throne. And if Rhaenyra had continued to refuse to marry or consistently used moon tea as to never get pregnant, she would have most likely been disinherited, Targaryen princess or not. Suffice it to say that having children, for women and men, was how nobles secured their power and legacy in a patriarchal feudalistic society.
Her kids wouldn't be Targaryens, they'd be Strongs. They're definitely bastards in the books as well. Laenor never had Dragonseeds of his own either, they were Corlys' but they weren't brought forward till after Rhaenys, his wife, died (no coincidence)
They don't become Targaryen through their mother. This isn't Dorne, they don't go through the female Line in 90% of Westeros
Laenor's claim as the male descendant of the Eldest Male child (Aemon), son of the King Jaeherys, was overlooked for the sake of Viserys. Why? Cause Laenor's claim as a Velaryon (his father) was greater than a Targaryen (his mother).
@@thalmoragent9344 rhaenyra's children definitely not an heir for driftmark bc they aren't velaryon but yeah they are HEIR through rhaenyra, to the iron throne
@@thalmoragent9344 if you wanna play little game.. joffrey not even have baratheon blood but he is joffrey baratheon and heir of robert
I think this take is bad and over simplified. Its unrealistic to expect someone to live their life according to their beliefs as a 14 year old. People change. And Rhaenyra was essentially forced to declare war after being initially opposed to it. I also think the point about motherhood ruining her life is problematic
Exactly. Motherhood didn't ruin her, if anything it made her more sympathetic
I think becoming a mother made her have to start acting more mature and responsible
Starts off idealistic then succumbs to power...Sounds familiar.
When did she do that?
Adult Rhaenyra might have betrayed her younger self, but her younger self was in fact a selfish ignorant child. Which would normally be fine for anyone living a regular life, but not for the first woman in line for the Iron Throne. Unlike you, I did not find her that appealing, though she was a good character.
Adult R, on the other hand, is much smarter about her reality and would probably slap the living crap of her younger self for such naivete if she could.
Come to think of it, Adult Alicent would have a lot of contempt for younger Alicent's naivete too
True. Rhaenrya's never claimed to be a feminist icon. She just wants to honour her father's wishes and fulfill the phrohecy. She also wants to protect her family. People really misunderstand who the character is.
@batmanpanther511 yeah people trying to impose this feminist icon image onto Rhaenyra are making two mistakes. 1. They mistake the story they're actually watching. Can't entirely blame them considering the people making the show hyper focused on the women's class issue when that's really only part of it, and not the core of the conflict, but still. (The fact it's over a woman inheriting the throne just makes it more contentious, but the core of the issue is still the matter of succession) 2. They misunderstand Danaerys as a feminist icon and impose that incorrect assumption onto Rhaenyra because they see her as a Dany stand-in when, in many ways, they're very different people. Danaerys isn't some revolution. Dharrio understood her correctly. She's a conqueror, a conqueror who used and appealed to certain revolutionary sentiments because and insofar as it was able to acquire her greater and greater power. She wasn't a good person. She certainly had good intentions, at least for a while, but when push came to shove and she had to choose between making a choice that was for the good of others or for the good of her own pursuit of power, she consistently chose the latter, and whenever she did do good to and for others (which, to be fair, she did), it was always for her own political benefit as well. She's has both good qualities and bad, but her story trajectory is one of the oppressed becoming the oppressor.
@@Tyler_W nailed it
We need one about the most complex character of the show, Alicent!!
They made her bland on the show
@@RealVincent1989 Less bland than Grown up Rhaenyra whose only work is to giving birth and being handed everything on a platter.
@@RealVincent1989 she was little described in the book
Alicent is not the most complex character in the show 💀
@@liebertjohann8524 Probably number 2 besides Daemon.
To the maker of this video: One cannot always retain the same behavior they have since they were young.
The dialogue implies that it wasn’t clinging to privilege that motivated her rejection of Ser Criston but duty to the prophecy.
Please do a video on Alicent!
I’ll do one for her after she’s dead ofc 🐉🖤
I'm sorry, but I have to agree with what has been said to ya'll; Because you missed the real reason Rhae Rhae didn't want to get married or have children - you take is entirely off.
1.) Rhae Rhae saw that marriage for women was just being married off for an asset, like a fleet of ships, and that even love would not stop her own father from literally slitting her own mother's belly right down the middle for the male child he deemed more important than her life. That's why she doesn't want to marry and give birth.
She even says the line, "how romantic, being imprisoned in a castle and made to pump out heirs." (Alicent's actual life.)
2.) Damoen and Rhae Rhae also demonstrated immense chemistry from the first episode, she didn't use him, she wanted him because she loves him and needs him. Or did not see that she proposed he steal her away on his dragon to take her to Dragonstone at her wedding.
Viserys even recognized this chemistry and know that they had the same fire inside them. And Damoen was the one who brought her new understanding of marriage and sex, Sir Chispin was a booty call. So why do think she wouldn't be smart enough to understand that she a princess & heir to the throne could never leave to be some man's wife? Especially a man she doesn't even love or know?
3.) Alicent is a pawn, used by the men around her - she was literally called out by both OG Rhae - "You only aim to secure a window in your prison." And Rhae Rhae, "You must be exhausted hiding under the coak your self-righteousness."
Lol i loved that scene where rhaenerya is using the bard to play a song on repeat. Rip all the bards that had to play a song 100x in a row before repeat was an option
I don't think she betrayed anything, least of all herself. Frankly, she wasn't particularly worthy of the throne when she was younger. A lot of her behavior was unbecoming of someone about to rule an empire. I think she just grew up and matured. Sure, she continues to make mistakes, and she's a complex person, and I definitely can't say that her choosing to follow certain "Valyrian traditions" was a particularly good idea, but she definitely matured as a person over time into someone far more suited to be a good ruler than she was when she was younger. Her change in perspective toward family is arguably her biggest area of growth. Family is not a burden. If you're lucky enough to have a loving and supportive one, they're among the greatest blessings in life that ought to be encouraged amd celebrated. Naturally, I think she still wants to make her mark in history by amending rules of succession and inheritance, but I also think she's evolved in what she finds important. In some respects, her goals remain the same in that she does want to make Westeros better than it was before, but I think she's also changed in the sense that she has positively grown to understand the value of having a family, as well as reaching a point where she understands that she needs to play the game as it is, not as she would like it to be. Then, if or when she acheives her goals, then she can set the rules herself.
Christen chose to break his vow of chastity. Then he tried to push Raenyra into running away to salvage his own ego.
Yeah, the fact he believed she'd she'd give up her birth right just for him is the height of male arrogance. No way a man would be expected to do that for a woman.
I thought, "mate, you're a bit on the side. Deal with it or move on" but now he's all bitter because of it. Pathetic.
@@pastlesandfish agreed. it’s wild how much he hates her for it. Like she included him in her plans for the future. His children would be kings or queens. Instead he comes up with a convoluted scheme that she rightly refuses. And he instantly switches sides. Guy is so full of himself.
Sir Harwin was such a man, he understood the duty and even if he loved her, he knew the realm was way bigger than themselves.
@@sircabooci4506f he understood duty then he wouldn’t have fathered her 3 bastards.
For real! He’s insufferable. And I don’t get why he’s so spiteful towards her even after he refused her offer to continue a secret relationship. It’s over, dude! Get over it! I don’t even think he loved her. He just cares about his stupid oath.
Oh wow, so know maturing as a character is betraying oneself? I really enjoy the Take vids but I’m afraid you guys are not really following the story of the show, even if we don’t include the books into this…
Lol Mature?From which angle?
Growing up and having kids is not betraying your younger ideals, it’s growing up and marrying Damon was mainly out of of love and political gain and as for betrothing her kids it’s not like forcing a young girl to marry an old man, it’s marrying some one of to someone of there own age
I would actually argue that she is one of the few characters that never betrays herself. Despite having a spineless father she has backbone. Despite being told she can't rule because she's a woman, she knows better. She's by far the best character on the show. She's flawed but that just makes her all the more human. She didn't choose this life or her title, like all of us, she's doing the best she can.
🥺🥺🥺
Please The Take, tell me you're also working on an Alicent video to give the show justice !
There are a few key missing things here:
1. The prophecy is what grounds Rhaenyra: it's the actual reason she wouldn't leave with Criston, why she keeps on fighting for the crown until she gets cornered in episode 8, needing a confirmation from her father because she lost faith in it.
2. The only thing to be considered betrayal is her having Harwin Strong's sons. She failed her duty and failed to pressure Laenor. She could've at least waited for a first true born son.
3. She was afraid of being used and seen as a carcasa for bearing children for most of her young life. Only after kissing Daemon and experimenting does she let go of that fear.
Older adult Rhaenyra is LITERALLY completely different from younger adult Rhaenyra in every way. So no, she didn’t betray herself because younger adult Rhenyra wouldn’t recognize older adult Rhaenyra any more than I do.
Ok, she betrayed her younger self.
Older Rhaenyra was cast first
@@Chris-rg6nm Older Rhaenyra was cast first
"Her thirst of power"?
@The Take please make more videos about house of dragons
I think it will be interesting to see how his character evolves in later seasons. But I don't think she betrayed herself. She suffered a lot as did Alicent (in a different way, obviously). I don't understand why so much criticism of her character since she hasn't done anything highly questionable at the moment.
And the fact that she had bastard children does not change the equation. The Hightowers were going to put Aegon on the throne anyway.
@@agustinamicaelaayala9938 alicent was very close to allowing Rhaenyra to take the throne uncontested, despite ottos plans to usurp her. She knows Aegon is not fit to rule in any capacity but misconstruing the ramblings of a dying man who’s far from lucid made her throw that right out the window. Ok let’s go ahead and throw this degenerate sociopath on the iron throne then
It doesn't matter if Alicent agreed on wanting Nyra on the throne or not ,at the end of the day Otto was already conspiring behing Viserys back since day one he wasn't gonna change the plan just because Alicent made peace with Nyra.
And Alicent heard what she wanted to hear at Viserys death bed because be fr ? His whole life he defended his daughter and he doesn't even say a coherent phrase and she's like :he wished Aegon to be king ! It was never gonna matter what Viserys wanted or what Alicent wished ,her father was already conspiring to put Aegon on the throne
@@iside2373 okay, so tell me this. What would happen if she didn’t see viserys that night? Alicent would’ve backed rhaenyra, thus giving her claim legitimacy making the actions of the Green council treason instead of “putting the rightful heir on the throne” how do you daemon would react to said treason?
2 thing would’ve happened. They either would’ve continued their attempt to usurp rhaenyra and lose their heads or would’ve gave up or possibly regroup and look for another way.
The point I’m trying to make is that alicents support for Rhaenyra would’ve made all the difference. And you can’t deny her word means something when she stopped all talk of killing her immediately.
@@Oxcymoron nah she was a victim of her father manipulation and i understand your comment but I still feel like Otto would have still continue anyway without really caring about Alicent feelings. Even though she opposed her father he would have still put Aegon on the throne
Where does this background music come from? I could listen to it for hours
Well, it's very understable why Rhaenyra wasn't happy about Alicent marrying Viserys and that Alicent's children threatens her right to the Iron Throne. Aemond Targaryen is a nasty piece of work and she'll be out for his blood for murdering Luceryan.
This is a terribly bad take. She did not reject Criston to maintain a privileged life because she wants to be spoiled. That’s just fundamentally wrong. She, like viserys is doing it because it is her duty. Plus you’ve completely missed the mark with her and daemon, it was not solely political. I mean come on, they made it clear in the first episode that they wanted to be together. I do not know what show you’re watching but it isn’t HoTD.
I agree. The guy who wrote this doesn't seem to actually understand the character's motivations.
Literally and he wanted to marry her not because he loved her but out of guilt and even if it wasn't because of duty no sane person would live their life where they have food,comfort ,family and a literally dragon for a guy who doesn't even really love you
This is wrong. Rhaenyra at that point could have simply just abdicated or left the throne to her brother. She wanted the throne. And she didn't feel the pressure of a threatened bloodline just yet.
Years latter, when the pressure is high enough, she *does* play the game out of duty to the kingdom, but that's Adult R.
@@androkguz "could have just abdicate" you say it like it's a normal Thursday. Already some lord sworned and kneel to her it's not like just leaving the office and even if she left Aegon supporters could have still hunt her down to be sure she didn't claim the throne or come back .
@@androkguz I see your point, but look at the ending of the season. She was willing to give up the throne for the good of the realm and to avoid bloodshed all while everyone around her urged her towards war and was forced into it after the death of her son. That doesn’t seem like someone who just wants power. It’s her duty to the realm. When she was young all she wanted was to be free but when her father told her of her role in his prophecy she accepted the responsibility which is why she married laenor. Before that, being queen never crossed her mind.
Love her ❤
having this kind of conception Rhaenyra has to be the same is sick, the change is what makes her real, she grows she changes she does not have to stick to what she was. She is not her own enemy, she is just shaping herself.
Blood and Cheese.
IYKYK.
If you know you know?
Son for a son 😈
I absolutely love your house symbolism videos. Have you considered looking into House Hightower and House Velaryon symbolisms. Both of these ancient houses are rich with stories and, fascinating characters and would make for brilliant watching.
Not sure if I entirely agree Rhanerya always wanted the power over her independence. That was made obvious, she always wanted to change Westros.
your video should be called: have no idea about the story and the lore and was skipping episodes to get to the end lol
Rebelliousness is selflessness if someone is poised to inherit they must be proven worthy of their inheritance and do their duties.
i dont think Rhaenyra married Daemon just for political power, she truly loved him
Didnt she say, something among the lines of you left me when i needed ypu most? Sounds like there was and is love for daemon
I definitely agree with that
One of the reasons Rhaenyra didn’t choose any suitors from her tour is she wanted to marry Daemon.
@@jjh2456 Annnnd it would have joined his claim with hers and solved a whole lot of problems. But Viserys was scared of his own brother, and so. His daughter had to muddle through the muck he stuck her in. Really, Viserys should have made the Velaryon alliance, not her. Laena ended up marrying a man far older than herself anyway.
I will definitely raise to attention the considerable influence of her uncle, the "handsomely roguish prince." His idea of open marriages ultimately gave Rhaenyra the freedom she so desired but at the cost of her own image. If not for Daemon then the conflict would most likely have not happened.
aka daemon groomed her
@@wwanca3771 yes exactly
You are completely forgetting about the prophecy, Criston wanted to marry Rhaenyra for himself Rhaenyra would not have it because she has to do her duty.
These series are a lesson in cptsd and how trauma destroys us.
Growing up and changing your mind does not mean you're betraying your younger self. 🙄
You know, just because you can do video essays doesn't mean you should
Lmao 🙏
i second that
They really had a 2 minute ad in the middle amh
Rhaenyra is often whitewashed whereas Allicent is demonized. For the record - I'm not rooting for black or green. Allicent has done bad things too. But I don't think there are any protagonists in the Targaryen family, and barely in the series, because in a sense they are all villains. Rhaenyra, like the rest of the family, does not care about her people. Rhaenys literally stomps on innocent peasants with her dragon at Aegon's coronation to make a point - which was weirdly perceived as "badass" by the fandom. Rhaenyra represents a very privileged form of feminism; she wants her own supposed "birthright" and her own power, but does little to empower or improve life for any of the less privileged people in the realm. Rhaenyra wanted to torture Aemond, lied on her mother's grave, and accused anyone who said even true criticisms about her of treason. The women in this show are often just as violent as the men. Empire, monarchy, and class inequality are fundamentally incompatible with feminism as a ideology. Women at the top of unethical power structures isn't empowerment. Women abusing their power aren't strong women. Women selfishly caring only about their own empowerment isn't empowerment at all.
Rhaenyra said that no one would care if she was a man with bastards. Yeah, men have bastards, but they don't pass them as legitimate. She wanted to pass the bastard as heir to the throne.
Because she had to. That's exactly the point - men sleeping around/having bastards is acceptable, a woman cheating on her husband would cause uproar. So she had to pretend they were Laenor's, since she would have been in big trouble for sleeping with other men. Note that she's never attacked for passing her children off as heirs to the throne - she's mainly insulted for them being bastards and her being a "whore".
All I’m saying is that even if it had been laena that had married the king and borne his children, there still would have been a war. It would have been arguably worse, considering laenor was in fact her brother, but as long as those children were Strongs, there was no stopping it
I think that’s call "character development"
I’m Team Black! I love Rhaniera and Daemon! Daemon is problematic but would’ve been a much better King! However, I do think Alicent was a pawn for her father for his own political gain. I’m excited for season 2
I’m Team Black 2 Alicient and her family have it coming
I like this channel but you can't help but look at everything through a 21st century feminist lens. The women of A Song and Ice and Fire are very progressive for a feudal society. Grrm writes female characters remarkably well imo.
I never clicked anything so fast
And you'll be surprised and probably making a complaint video about how Rhaenyra did almost nothing during the Civil War
I'm just glad I'm not the only one who does not agree on the first part of the analysis. Missing out on the most crucial part of her story and why she chose the throne.
Show restraint? She literally demanded that aemond be "questioned sharply" which means tortured, in order to hide her own infidelity and protect her bastard sons.
Hide?She can't even hide it it obvious. Everyone knows that her kids are bastards
Moral of the story she was a nieve kid. Most of us have been there.
I guess this is a Green Stan account
Normally I agree with the Takes but not this one. This Take is the opposite of how I saw the character through my own eye. 🤷🏻♀️
i hate when people try to give a nuanced analysis and all they could end up saying is “so you’re team green/black?”
as someone who have read the books, team smallfolks and a connoisseur of tragic and corrupt people in power stories… you are missing the whole point of the show. both sides have politically competent/incompetent people, and their morals also varied. but their choices are also in the cost of the smallfolks, the people who have little and nothing to do with their schemes.
please keep in mind that the blacks and the greens are the nobles. the elon musk and jeff bezos of our time. but more tyrannical and politically centered with their role in westeros. they are the top of the food chain. they have duties either way, their privilege comes with cost of duty. the system they live in makes that such a thing.
how about we discuss the actual video. the analysis that is served on a plate for you. the petty bickering over an analysis is so absurd sometimes.
you can absolutely choose teams, it could be fun and immersive. many of my friends have their own respective arguments for their own teams, but the thing is they are actively discussing the characters politically and morally. with respect to each other as a person.
yet it could also be annoying if you perceive everything as just as something negatively centered. lacking nuance and understanding in discussions is a recipe for a horrible fandom.
They are kids.
Yes you're right but we have the nuance of knowing the story as a whole. But I completely agree with you, this is a tragedy, there's no winning side, this is a lesson.
Lacking nuance and understanding in discussion is certainly the kind of threads I've read once on reddit 😭 it was chaotic
Some people need everything spoon fed and lack the ability to understand the nuance of a story that isn’t spelled out for them.
Rhaenyra narrated the opening scene.
Spoiler:
That means Rhaenyra might even survive the war unlike what happened in the novel. As to what Joeffrey in GOT said about Rhaenyra, there's a chance where the writers for HOTD season 2 might have Rhaenyra escape while a someone who looked like her had been mistaken for Rhaenyra and therefore killed by the dragon. Rhaenyra will go on to live but not review herself or what happened until she passed away.
Nah…Rhaenyra won’t get a happy ending.
I love Rhaenyra but she really shot herself in the foot by leaving King's Landing and separating herself from politics, despite the fact she is the heir. Having three bastards (that she always denies are bastards) is not a good look for a future queen. She put her personal pleasures before her duty when she was younger. That's partially why Alicent feels a rift between them. But now I love how much she has matured.
@Ashi To Rhaenyra having her bastards pass as legitimate heirs is also setting up a succession crisis between her bastards and trueborn sons with Daemon. The children may be close when they were young but relationships change especially if her trueborn sons starts to get married. What if they marry an ambitious woman from an influential and wealthy family like the Lannisters? And if not within her sons, it could be between her grandsons. Having one bastards is understandable but three was just too much. Sure lots of lords and kings have bastards but they aren't foolish enough to have them pass as legitimate heirs. Robert and Aegon VI never did that. Only Roose Bolton did that with Ramsay because he had no heirs. That itself will cause instability not just between the Targaryens but to the whole realm since when nobles and royals play their game, the whole realm suffers.
And I agree with the original post. If she was so serious about her duty, then she should have not left king's landing in the first place. She should have stayed there, made her presence stronger, made more allies, tried to study and learn more about politics and ruling etc. Adult Rhaenyra may be more mature than younger Rhaenyra but she is so politically inept for someone who has known that she was to be heir for more than a decade. What she said was a total cringefest when she sent Luke to the Baratheons. That they would honor to deal with a prince because they are proud people and thinking that being kin to Rhaenys is enough. Girl really believed her own lies so much thinking that other people are stupid to actually believe that. She also think that a great lord would be just willing to give her what she asked without asking something in return just because they're royalty?
The show tried to make Rhaenyra nicer which is why I am curious how they will develop her since the dance literally showed how incompetent she really is. In her defense, Viserys declared her as heir but never really taught her what she should do as heir.
Edit: Spacing if paragraphs.
@Ashi To why am i tearing 😭 the way you said rhaenyra being belittled and insult its so true and it makes sad the fact that in the show they're bestie but alicent still have beef with rhaenyra even her strong boys, she even called them savages. i mean if you don't like the mother pls don't passed your hatred to the children 😭
“She wants all the benefits of her role without the responsibility.”
The thing about rebel princesses rejecting the rules and limitations their society puts on them is that they don’t HAVE to follow them. They can give up their titles and rights as princesses, leave and make their own living (see Princess Saera). But princesses like Rhaenyra want to have their cake and eat it too. You can’t say fuck the rules of society and still enjoy all the privileges of said society.
When did she ever say she wanted to make a world that’s kinder to women. She only said she’d make a new order. She doesn’t want to destroy the man’s world, just rule over it
As all the comments have stated, you guys kinda missed the point of her character completely…
I don't judge her at all, as it is mentioned in the first season of Game of Thrones, you win or lose at the GOT, there IS no middle ground
I really appreciated how the show explored her sexual awakening, though I don’t understand Ser Cristen’s subsequent hatred of her and he frankly gets on my nerves. Yeah he’s got his oath but he breaks things off with her so I don’t get why he proceeds to maliciously conspire with Alicent and goes on a war path against Rhaenyra.
so, she is not burning down the seven kingdoms to settle a grudge. Her father told her the truth about why she needs to be queen - to beat the long night. This is why she is determined to hold onto power - she knows the truth, and she knows no one else will believe that truth without her fathers word.
House of the dragon is a series of unfortunate choices
that was great cant wait for alicent,daemon and viserys ones
Uhm.... Young Rhaenyra has no ideals at all. She's also hardly 'timid' at any moment. You're completely misreading her character to suit your own beliefs.
She mostly just wants a carefree life, but also wants to be the heir for the same reason as Daemon does in the beginning: because to her it means that she's valued by Viserys. Both desires are incompatible and when she's a grown up, the bill is served....
This analysis is just off. People grow up and change, surprise! Let her be a messy, complex character. Just like how people are in real life. Stop trying to turn every female protagonist into some moral compass.
Most of her problems would have been solved if she had just married Harwin Strong at the very least her eldest sons would not have been bastards, she would have had someone who would have been a good partner to her, who actually loved her, and still had a high enough position within the courts to be a helpful asset and form relationships among the other houses.
Next episode from The Take: Why Aemond is better than Daemon
😂😂
I see no lie in the title.
I'm team black, but you might be right
What in the incest is going on?
Spoiler: Everyone: She and Daemon are so perfect together.
Rhaenyra: married the wife-killer, and soon-to-be child-killer who groomed her since 14. Then she will want his mistress dead. They are going to be more toxic than Cersei and Jaime.
Well, they are perfect for each other. But bad for everyone else.
Where does it say that she wants to create of Westeros kinder to women? I never saw that anywhere in the show.
She told Rheanys that her reign will come with a new order.
@@mendiel8726 And...? I'm not sure how's that's construed to mean "a Westeros that is better for women", or the average peasant, or anyone. Rhaenyra was only ever worried about herself.
@@Jonny-317 Better for women I guess, because Rhaenys told her that she couldn't rule Westeros because she was a woman, so the context says that her new order would be better for woman. At least that was what she thought at the moment...
@@mendiel8726 That may have been the implication, but it would certainly not be the outcome. The status quo continues to serve her pretty well.
@@Jonny-317 You are right. But she is not totally at fault...
Absolute power, corrupt absolute.
@Nicholas The greater the power, the more dangerous the abuse
Have to disagree with the assertion Rhaenyra wanted to improve the lot of women. As soon as she gets power she starts denying widows rights and ousting female inheritors in favour of male ones. Rhaenyra never wanted to help women, she just wanted herself to be the exception. Like Cersei she resents that she wasn’t born male.
True, but if that ever happen on the show they will make it seem like a "There was no other way" type of situation to not taker her Golden halo
@@pedrofernandes2466 I think S1 has been working hard to make Rhaenyra sympathetic but the next 3 seasons will see her slide into madness. By the time she gets eaten the fans won’t be arguing who’s better, but whose worse.
0:15 is aerea targaryen erasure :(
So you're Team Green...
😒
I shall put the Take's heads on a spike.
Are you made
You people are ridiculous. Apparently trying to have rational, nuanced discussion about the story, themes, and characters makes one a Team Green or Black or something.
We all should be! 😉
Kids,please go watch Glee.
I have always loved this channel and its feminist analysis but I feel like you completely missed the mark on this one. This is over-simplistic and does not do justice to the complexity of Martin’s flawed character.
I don't fully agree with the arguments because adult Rhaenyra is a far more mature and responsible Rhaenyra than she was during her youth.
Very interesting
House of the Dragon tricks the viewer because they know you’ll view it through a modern girl boss lenses
Rhenrya is selfish through the entirety of the first season. She doesn’t not respect duty, tradition or the great houses that put her father on the throne in the first place
Alicent doesn’t have any alternative motives, at least not until her son literally looses an eye and no one cares, not even the child’s father.
Alicent doesn’t demand an eye because she’s high on power….. lol. That’s a terrible take. Did you watch the show??
Rheynera would make a terrible ruler.
Lmao y’all missed the point big time
I usually agree with you guys but you miss her character at all
This is the true Greek tragedy of the story....Rhaenyra would have been a fantastic queen. I still am Team Black in the end
so sad bc the reason they usurped her was bc they thought the realm would rejected her but be for real most of the realm supported her during the war if the just let everything goes as planned😭 i'm so pissed she lost everything, her parents, got usurped and second son got killed 😭