Performing a 16-Strand Arborist Splice || WesSpur Tree Equipment & Iron Street Rope Splicing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2024
- Looking to learn 16-strand rope splicing? Ryan demos performing the splice in 16-strand arborist ropes according to Samson Ropes' instructions.
16-strand ropes are a main-stay of arborist work. As climbing ropes, they are robust and easy to grip, if a little heavier than the 11 to 11.8mm climbing ropes popular today. The full 1/2" (12mm) size of a rope like ArborMaster Bigfoot (shown here) makes a great rope for lanyards.
The great folks at Samson Ropes not only make the Bigfoot rope shown here, but they have free splicing instructions for all of their ropes. Download the pdfs from their site, or get the Samson app for your phone and follow along.
Tools for splicing rope are available at WesSpur:
www.wesspur.co...
For custom splicing of any rope products, Iron Street Rope Splicing is at your service!
Contact Iron Street Rope Splicing: www.wesspur.co...
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Finally a video showing everything on this type of rope. Very informative and thorough. Thanks
Glad it's helpful! Have fun splicing.
I've watch this video a few times and did my splice just like so, but I did a small splice for carabin only, I've been climbing with it for at least 6 months, works and hold perfectly thank you so much
Very helpful, easy to follow step-by-step. Thank you!!
Just gave it my first try and I'm looking forward to climbing with it.
Thank you - great detail and commentary - we are using this process to make lunge lines - WOW - your video is the best!
I've done a few splices, but still like to watch your video
@wesspur
I have been climbing for 10 years. I’ve been using a figure 8 on a bite as my termination knot for years. I’ve just start to get into splicing (just for fun). I’m “knot” (lol see what I did there) going to be climbing with any of my splicing any time soon. I have made a tight eye on my 16 braid. I understand 16 braid as far it’s not core dependent. So my question is, does the eye not need core fibers for any reason? Also is it normal that because my eye has no core fibers it looks kinda collapsed?
Followed your video and was able to make a new Lanyard thank you.
Followed step by step and it went beautifully. Thanks for posting!
Glad it helped!
I think I will just pay you guys to do it lol. My ropes, PPE, terminal tackle and spurs are all here. My saddle comes Tuesday. Weeee!
Lest I appear ungrateful to wesspur 1: I would NEVER have succeeded without your video. Thanks!
$15 a splice is a hell of a deal after seeing this video
Nathan Mayo hahaha that’s the truth! I paid 25$, but I’m sure he’s able to do it in five minutes after doing it 10,000 times
yea hand splices are usually 25 but still, this is incredibly complex but more importantly nuanced, if any of those fids come out in the wrong places it will make everything less good
I have seen $25 a splice. Even at that it now sounds good.
"Incredibly complex" no wonder we have such a wasteful society,, bunch of retards too lazy and dumb to learn something like this to do the job themselves..."I'd rather pay someone"
Hi, Ryan, thanks for responding. I have bought fids from you at Wesspur, but nothing like the plain wire one you seem to use for the final pull-through. I improvise with 1/8" wire rope, doubled and passed through brass tubing. I remove the tubing, hook the outer strand tail, and then do the core strand pull-through. Yeah, if you hook even one core strand, inside the rope, no amount of pressure, not even one ton of force from the come-a-long will get it through. I almost pulled my bench apart!
dude your awesome...keep up the good work.
After weeks of viewing this now and then, I finally got on it, stayed up late for one nite, tried my first splice with 16 strand, and seeing what I have to work on... you are so well organized, You make it look so simple, thank you for that, I had to break it down into stages, take notes, and I went over the video probably 20 or more times...SO from what I have seen on video, and read( what little there is out there) on 16 strand splicing, these are the standard lenghts for a burry on a standard climbing line, with a 5" eye splice...do I stay with them if I want a tighter eye splice? My next question is though, what length should I make the burry for a 12' laynard, on a shorter rope, such as a 28"split tail? or a 28" or shorter prusik eye to eye? I am as well learning the double braid splice for 10mm 8&9mm, and SPlicing is cleaning up my gear, and maximizing efficiency ten fold! I recently started buying and using oceans eye to eye, on distel and V.T, and bought a couple other eye and spliced tails, and prusik.... I run the NE safety blue and Dale's tree boss.. the way you show to work the rope helps emensly in the more difficult handling parts, you cover a lot of info in this short video... I climb every day possible, and this is gonna help clean up my gear once I am confident, and I have drop tested a few! I have always wanted to splice my own ropes, and cables, and learned cables and three strand last year... now I am on my way to confidently doing 16 strand! THis is great thing for serious climbers to know ...Thanks for the great vid.
I have another question , could I use a wire fid or a toss for both burrys, or is a toss for the first the only tool, and a wire fid for the second the only possible way... I learnt using improvised tools made from bicycle parts...it's slow, and clanky, but I was able to pull off my first one...I am on a limited budget for now, until I need to advance past the learning, and testing phase of the splicing art, I still have a lot of climbing gear to spend on.
i have used a wire fid for the 22in burry, its kinda hard but it works. i would recoment wraping the strand around the wire fid with fishing line so it dose not come up done inside the rope.
That is really impressive...nice work
16 strand gets it's strength from the outer layer. The core is just for filler and keeps the rope round under weight.
Wow you make that look easy! All you beginners out there.. leave it to the pros
How the guy slides his wire fid through the unaltered rope, prior to hooking the tail, is a true mystery, to me.I use a very narrow, hollow fid, and then feed my wire through it. I remove the fid, then hook the tail with the wire loop. You should buy a come-a-long and hook your channel locks to it (I use a carabiner) after locking on your wire. Anchor the come-a-long and have at it. You'll succeed. I now have made two perfect eye splices, but there was a steep learning curve. Good luck!
The real treasure is so often found in the TH-cam comments.
Would this splice work on a 16 strand New England rope?
Boss, is it practical to paint the rope with polyurethane elastomeric sealant to make it stronger and water sealed? Should I sew a whip lock? Thank you and More Power.
Hi... How do you splice New England 11.5 tachyon? please if its possible to do a video! Cheers and keep up the good work
Sorry to take so long to reply. I think the Edelrid is a different construction of rope. Would be best to check with manufacturer to get the splicing specs if there are any. It looks like a static Kernmantle style from the images but not sure.
Ryan
Badass Wood, the splicing measurements remain the same no matter what size eye you form. On a 12' lanyard the same. To make a single leg split tail, pull all the core and make the same taper and bury the cover in itself. I would refrain from making an E2E at it involves a crossover bury and different custom measurements.
Thank you ascension group. Is there any where to learn the eye to eye basics? So you say pull the entire core for split tail? I thought on the second burry the cover plus existing core inside the cover the was the final binder. I could be wrong, still learning.
tried pulling core on one, friction itch is flat now, are there measurements for split tails? My split tails usually are only 28" long.
I am very new at this tree climbing hobby and I happen to buy 2 (150' each ) 16 straights ropes from a south Florida dealer. One is bright orange and black the other bright green and black. Do you happen to know who may had made ropes with these description?
I splice double braided ropes regularly for rigging but have never done stranded core climbing rope. I'm curious; doesn't the method shown create a weak eye as this becomes cover only?
I think it will still break before the main leg of line because well over half of the line strength is in the cover, and the eye shares the load between two static legs. So while the main line is about 8,000 pounds I'd bet the eye is easily over 10-12,000 pounds, assuming the splice itself doesn't fail (not the cordage).
www.bethandevans.com/load.htm
This has interesting data and the write covers what I'm saying, in passing, in the section on bend radius about half way down.
From my understanding, all the strength with this Arbor Master is in the jacket. The core strands are no more than filler.
I just did this by following along, I noticed there no core I the eye. This is the accepted way to make a splice in 16 strand for climbing? I'm climbing MRS so carabiner is attached the splice as the tremination, just wanted to make sure this isn't a splice for a different purpose. Thanks.
Hi Wesley, 16-strand arborist ropes are cover-dependent for their strength. The core fibers are there to keep the line round and easy to handle, but are removed to form the eye. Always refer to the rope manufacturer splicing guidelines when splicing a rope. Stay safe!
Hi great video do you guys sell these wirefids online?
No stitching required to hold splice in place?
Request permission to ask a question. Was it thoroughly tested?
Hi Nathan, the splicing method is from Samson's official. I don't know the fate of this particular splice done for the video, but the splices performed by Iron Street Rope Splicing, our splicing company are tested.
Thanks for posting such a good how to video. Can this technique with the same measurments be used to eye splice New England Safety Blue and Yale XTC?
Your correct if it was kernmantle. 16 strand has its strength in the cover the core keeps the round shape
how much cost a wire fid like the one you use in this video to pass the cord
Hi Victor, if you mean the arborist splice wand, you can find current pricing here: www.wesspur.com/items/spl101.html
I was given the task of making one of these over April break, and I hope I haven't completely ruined it. While taking out the strand pairs I accidently took out 6. Will this ruin the splice or can I continue on?
28 22 eye lenght & 11 nice and secure.
Hello, I messing up pretty bab on the last step, when the cover need to go true the rope with the core, I had tried to pull as hard as i can but it didnt go true...
16-strands can be hard to complete the bury on. Our in-house splicers may be able to offer some help. If you email ironstreetropesplicing@wesspur.com or call 800-268-2141 and ask to speak to Graham in splicing, he may be able to get you some help.
where to get the big tool to put inside the cord
On the chance someone is stopping by to learn how to do the above splice, let me say a few more things: The video guy knows his stuff, no doubt. He's a pro. That being said, pros do things that may give the impression that those things are easier to do than they actually are: Pro singers lip synch, at times, this guy may have a "fixed rope" that allows him to make his moves in a way that shows what should happen but, in actual practice, may not happen, for you. See my next post.
Where can I get a 10 foot rope with a splice on one end for my lineman’s belt?
You can order any of our spliceable lines online at WesSpur.com or by calling in. We offer ropes by the foot, and you can add a splice or two on there with special instructions. Just be sure to account for the extra length of rope the splice will need (don't order ten feet if you want the final product to be ten feet). If you have any questions about your particular splice/project or just want to talk it over before ordering, feel free to give us a call and we'll be happy to get it sorted. 🙂
First, pulling out core strands takes some practice.They do not fly right out.Next, pulling cover strands should begin with those closest to the end of the rope.Otherwise you're making more work for yourself.Pulling the tail to its first stop takes more oomph than shown, here.Next, I believe that the final pull-through of the tail, here, is through a rope whose core strands may have been reduced.There are several stops in this video where "adjustments" might have been made. See my next post.
Where can I get the snare fid?
Thanks
Hi Luis, you can get the Arborist Splice Wand here: wesspur.com/items/spl101.html
Can I make the eye small to join my anchor chain so it will go through the Maxwell winch??
The eye can be made 'tight' so that it is just large enough to go around carabiner/hardware.
@@WesSpurTreeEquipment thankyou so much for getting back soo quick....not sure what i've done wrong but i seem to have little to no substance in my eye area,,it feels hollow. :( gonna have to watch again i feel. great vid by the way.
Got good in this technique but there’s still one thing I don’t understand
What’s the point of this splice if there’s no core in the eye itself
Or am I missing something?
From Samson's Instructions:
"The eye splice is used to place a permanent loop in the end of a rope, generally for attachment purposes to a fixed point. An eye is also used to form the rope around a thimble, which is used to protect the rope, especially when it is to be attached to a shackle, chain, or wire rope."
This type of 16-strand is not core-dependent for it's strength, the core is there to enhance grip and help it stay round.
Stay safe!
What fid are you using, at 9:15, to do the final pulling of the strands through the unaltered rope segment? I cannot find anything, online, that resembles it. Is it your own gizmo? It looks like a piece of wire bent in half and then inserted into the rope. I cannot get any fids I've found to go through that segment. This is extremely frustrating. I wish you were still around to respond to this post.
Im splicing my first rope When I pull the jacket fibers to taper it into its self the jacket fibers will not make it to mark 4 the 11 in past mark 3. any insight on this issue?
Sounds like you forgot the step at 10:40. Zero the rope, mark the cover and core strands, pull each of them out 6-8 inches, then cut just inside your mark, taper them, then milk it back.
When you're pulling the tail through, at 5:04, to form your eye, what is the fid attached to? How is it attached? Yeah, you pull it through very easily, but you don't show us how the fid is set up. My apologies if I am not hearing you explain how you've anchored the fid, and it's actually on this video.
any tips on the step at 9:30? I'm at this step but my rope just doesn't go through no matter how hard i pull
Hey! I relayed your question to our lead splicer and he said to try giving yourself additional space past mark D, potentially 2-3 feet opposed to the 22 inches. Also to insure that the wire fid has passed through clean and didn't snag or disrupt any of the core strands.
He also said that if you have further questions to feel free to give us a call and ask for Graham in splicing. He's happy to help you out with whatever issues you're having!
it works!! thank you very much!!!
that splice is life-bearing right? theres no plastic cover or sewing that needs to go into it for it to be life-bearing?
Yes, a 16 strand 1/2" line if done to these specifications is life bearing assuming the line itself meets the specifications as far as strength and such. Construction must be similar to Samson Arbormaster (which most arborist lines are) There is no requirement for a plastic cover or any sewing. Sewing the eye would be an alternative to the hand splice.
What are the measurements for a tight eye splice? Also, are there any differences when doing a tight eye splice?
Sorry Brandon I somehow missed this question earlier. Essentially, you just form the size eye you want and then follow the same instructions as in the video. The technical measurements are consistent, only changing based on how you form the eye.
Hello, I am getting a new england 16 strand 11mm rope. And I am wanting a right eye fora termination on the carribiner. It is orange and white rope.
Tight eye***
Doing it this way does the splice lose strength? Because at the eye you don't have any core stands..
Hi Marcel, this construction of rope is cover-dependent. The core strands keep the rope firm and round, but the cover strands provide the strength.
This is true of the other 16-strands climbing ropes you see on the page below.
www.wesspur.com/rope/16-strand-climbing-rope.html
Stay safe!
What fids are you using and where do you buy them?
Hi Robert, this video shows the use of the Splicing Wand and Point Hudson Fid, among other tools. You can find them on our splicings fids page here: www.wesspur.com/splicing/splicing-fids-pushers.html
Please contact us at weborders@wesspur.com if we can answer any other questions! Stay safe,
Well bought the basic kit for Samson. First time splicing and it came out perfect because I followed your professional taught video to the letter. Thank you so much.
@@1stFlyingeagle Awesome, glad you had good results! A great skill to have. Stay safe!
Honestly is this is how you splice it for your customers splices I am not sure ill be checking the spice end of rope box like I was planning to
All in-house splicing is done to the exact specifications laid out by the rope manufacturer and splices are routinely tested for strength retention. Perhaps you could be more specific in regards to your grievances with this technique?
that sounds good to me im just new at this and that splice looks weaker than other double braid splices ive seen done here on youtube but if it works it works
Totally understandable. The construction of 16 strand rope doesn't allow for the double-braid splicing techniques, largely due to the difference in where the ropes get their strength from. As the 16-strand lines are not core-dependent, the splice is distinct from the typical double-braid splices where jacket and core share importance.
Different splices, but similar strength retention in practice, if you can believe it! Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns, we're happy to answer; life safety is of the highest concern in splicing.
Unless I watched this incorrectly, does your eye not have any core material within it?
I think there is no core in that eye.. in case you’re still wondering 7 years later...
OK, you lose me at 3:29 where you're pulling out the blue and yellow strands. What do the five little marks have to do with this part? How many blue and yellow strands are you pulling out? At 4:30 the video skips and suddenly it looks like you've deconstructed the complete rope segment. Is that right? Still, what are the little marks (chevrons) for? Here I'm asking about the marks you made at 2:46. Also, what is the wand called at 5:05? I can't understand what you're saying on the video.
Is it the sa.e lengths for a small tight end carabiner
You will want to checkout the Samson splicing instructions: samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/splice-instructions/16strand_c1_eye_splice_web.pdf?sfvrsn=de83b33b_2
I may be wrong but this splice doesn't seem to have the core strands running through the first 28inch of rope . There doesn't seem to be any core rope in the eye. So the last 2 foot of rope including eye is just outer casing. !!
Hey there, you are correct. 16-strand ropes like ArborMaster are generally "cover-dependent". The core fibers are there to help the rope stay round, but the strength of the rope is in the cover fibers, not the core. Hope that helps!
Samson's splicing guidelines may be of interest.
www.samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/splice-instructions/16strand_c1_eye_splice_web.pdf?sfvrsn=de83b33b_2
@@WesSpurTreeEquipment thankyou for the reply.
Is this typical of all this type of rope or is arbor master unusual ? How does one check to know the outer casing is the strength of the rope and to do your splicing method is ok and when a core and outer casing inclusion method is needed.
Doesn't the eye lose its shape without it not being internally supported?
@@bob-dp3ec referencing the manufacturing splicing instructions is always the go-to. It is usually common across constructions, so 12 and 16-strands are going to be cover-dependent regardless of brand.
Excellent vid, Im looking to splice some Marlow Gecko rope, this has a braided cover and core, would this technique be suitable for this rope????
Cheers
J
Do I do the same if your wanting a right eye?
+Shawn Chamness A tight eye splice would require adjusted measurements given the smaller finished eye size, but is spliced the same as you see in the video. Thanks for watching Shawn!
Ok thanks
No need for whip stitching, or did you just not show that?
Hi there, it is in the Samson splicing manual as an optional step, so it is up to you to include it or not. Stay safe!
Hi Ryan, great video! Like the user above/below: trvdz I would also like to know how and if this can work with climbing rope. I have a 10.5 mm. Does the same technique apply?
Thanks. Do you know what rope it is. Manufacturer or Brand and the name of the rope, that would help. The rope I am using is Samson Arbormaster (Bigfoot) made right up the road in Ferndale, Washington. It is a 1/2" or approx 12mm diameter 16 strand line. We have plans to do another video on the smaller diameter double braid climbing lines this Winter so watch for that. That may be what you have, but to be sure I would need the name of the rope and the manufacturer. You can email a picture if you don't know and I may be able to tell from that. Just shoot it to ryan@wesspur.com.
Ryan Aarstol It is a bluewater double dry rope. I will take a snap and send it to you.
ElanioBro That looks to be a kernmantle and in most likely not hand spliceable. Some can be sewn. Totally different construction than 16 strand.
Ryan Aarstol that's a bummer, I got a bunch of retired rope I was hoping I could do something like this with. :(
ElanioBro
Blue water double dry, 10.5, is that rock rope, or tree? What does double dry mean any way?
is that blue thunder? rope?
Samson Bigfoot!
there is no core in the eye. is that ok?
Yes, this type of rope is cover-dependent for strength. The core fibers provide a round, firm profile for handling the rope, but are not required in the eye.
At the moment I'm using piano wire and it keeps breaking or cutting into the tapered sheath.
How does it not just slide out when you put weight on loop?
Think of it somewhat like a chinese finger trap. The more weight put on the splice, the more it tightens. The increase of tension only locks it further.
is that suitable to climb on
+jerjer007007 Yup, and when done correctly a spliced eye will maintain more of the ropes original strength than a knot will.
+WesSpur Tree Equipment Duh, thanks for the insight... Now you can tell us who to vote for.Trump or Sanders, the only 2 non-bought & paid for choices remaining...
This made my head hurt watching it. Not gonna be attempting this ever
@ trewornan, You would be better off not commenting on things you obviously have NO clue as to what you are talking about! First and foremost 16 strand arborist rope is NOT core dependent at all. The only function the parallel core fibers perform is to keep the rope round. This rope is cover dependent! Secondly, this gentleman showing the splice is following the manufacturer's (samson rope) Splicing directions exactly as writen by samson. This is the right way to splice this rope...Period!
Well crap. 1st try worked exactly as you showed. 2nd-time dam it I for the life of me could not pull outer jacket through with the fid, I even used pullies and that SOB would not come through. So to learn I cut outer jacket to see did I get inner fiber tangled up. Nothing was wrong inner core fibers were just fine. And I had 2 pullies in line and it just would not pass through. WTF?
Man, hard to say Robert. We do have clearance rope for practice.
No wonder they charge as they do for splicing.
I feel so much better about paying $40 for a lanyard with two splices 😂
Puts it in perspective for sure!
No, it really IS that hard. (7:26)
El ojo queda vacío? Un peligro.
This process is NOT anywhere near as easy as this fellow makes it look. He is a pro who knows exactly what he's doing and has all of the correct tools to do the job right. I've now done three eye splices, and they have not gone smoothly, to say the least. The toughest step, and one of the last, is pulling the loosely woven, remaining strands, past the unaltered rope segment. You better invest in the gizmos this fellow uses, or you will NEVER succeed in getting those strands to feed through.
Don't use a sharpie on climbing rope. The chemicals in the pen can damage the rope in invisible ways, leading to a break or creating a weak spot. There are climbing rope markers commercially available, they are non-reactive with the rope materials.
It is worth noting, however, that the same people (UIAA in particular) whose tests indicate that felt-tip pens cause weakening in extreme situations also indicate that climbing rope markers cause the same weakening. And these tests are not conclusive beyond extreme fall scenarios, where an entire section of rope was marked.
To my knowledge, there have been no reported rope failures due to sharpie use other than those wrought under extreme testing conditions; for example, the UIAA tests use a fall factor of 1.78 with a static belay repeated ad naseum until fail. Even on a dynamic line, this force (the equivalent of a 60 foot whipper) is unlikely to occur multiple times, and in practical tests the rope would always break at the base of the knot before it would at straight rope, marked or otherwise. AND all of this presumes a dynamic, nylon construction- a relatively foreign construction for arborist climb lines which tend to also feature, at least, polyester.
One further note: Bruce Smith's On Rope has a comprehensive list of chemicals that damage rope, and the current typical black sharpie does not contain anything from this list. Food for thought.
I don't know how making an eye turned into cutting several feet of core line away. Something tells me that there is a much better way to do this.
That seems to be a pain in the ass
Hi thanks for your video. i found it really helpful. i did have one question regarding rope types that you are able to splice.
i am a tree surgeon and i saw this video on TRT Twin Rope Technique and floating anchors (th-cam.com/video/Cp7eZDEKFOM/w-d-xo.html)
the guys is using Mammut - Serenity Dry 8.7mm is the rope safe to be putting spliced eyes into? i the reason for my question is that its a rock climbing rope that is dynamic (not like a stanard static rope used in tree works).
i would be really interested in your responce. thanks and kind regards. James
***** We don't recommend mixing rock climbing lines and splicing - most Kernmantle construction lines don't take well to splicing, especially rock climbing ones that have such a high degree of stretch. There's a reason that you don't see rock climbers using spliced eyes on their ropes; it's a limitation of design. People do figure out ways, but as far as recommendations for lifelines security, we'd advise against it. Thanks James!
You go to fast
baitmain55 good thing about TH-cam is u can watch the video again
dude your awesome...keep up the good work.
dude your awesome...keep up the good work.
dude your awesome...keep up the good work.