Elemental went from a simple rotation with awesome utility and defensives due to CDR to a wierd unbalaced dps god to a caged circusbear. Long time ele main, but this just feels like a bad joke or a beta.
Yeah, this is a really disappointing development. Ascendance feels really good, but outside of it things are rough. Also really feeling the poison totem change. :/
@ThirtyninerOfficial Yes, ele is stronger now than is warranted. But these nerfs risk killing the viability of the spec outright. Needed to be tuned, not nuked.
Whinge? Warriors were unjustifiably nerfed, hence everyone jumping on the bandwagon meme. Elemental, on the other hand was justifiably nerfed. No one is surprised.
honestly I have zero idea what blizzard were thinking when they decided ele shaman needed a single target nerf, that spec was already middle of the pack for pure ST, this set of nerfs desperately needs SOME kind of compensation buff to lightning bolt/lava burst/whatever otherwise they will be doing literally aug damage
Honestly just delete first ascendant and make ascendance a baseline 2 minute CD. Part of the problem right now is the fact spymasters exists, and 3 minute CDs need insane power behind them to justify their strength. So when you stack the two something looks broken AF, and inherently 3m CDs just aren't that fun to play around.
I am so glad people did not overreact to elemental AT ALL even though they were always worse than enhance (yes, even on wednesday) so blizz went on to not only double tap them but emptied the whole magazine into them.
@@nicholasgraves3149 in raid/single target they still outperformed just not in keys. Which is why a ST nerf for ele is strange, they were middle of the pack it was just AOE when all CDs aligned that it was crazy.
a tier list before keys done and with just sims here and there seems a bit off to be honest! for example mass aoe destro may end up being at A! SV NW COT after 2nd boss mists if you pull extra in maze or the end have such profiles
Destro should be in a decent spot after next reset tbh. The unique warlock utility + shadowfury are usually good enough to get into some M+ keys anyway and the damage buff should be enough to not feel embarassed whenever you look at Details. As long as Diabolist remains garbage tier for Destruction in AoE scenarios, there will always be quite the cap on Destruction's potential AoE damage, but you should be able to manage quite fine with Hellcaller in M+ come next week.
I started to fear playing classes that are performing well for this exact reason: you invest time in it , you gear it you craft hundreds of thousand of gold gear on it just to be nerfed in a short time. It feels like we are paying subs for BETA !
its sad about ww cause I love that spec dearly and main brew master and ww off and on since mop. This season I can do decent dmg for the key levels I am doing 10-11s and bring decent play to deal with the affixes with the ability to tod every tank affix nuking its shield almost in one shot. dealing with the haste affix easily with rop or tailsweep
@@Xerus35 enhance was dead during 2 whole expansions already and when we needed buffs they were telling us that we need to wait for the whole new expansion ....
@@Xerus35 no you dolt they should do their best to bring all classes to the same lvls. Why do people not demand buffs to underperforming classes when they get nerfed or another gets buffed? We want all classes to be equally bad? We only want 1 or 2 good classes an expansion? People have no clue what theyre talking about including you
I play frost dk and mage. Although they're in meta tier here both of them feel horrible to play. Possibly just takes getting used to that pressing the same buttons result in very different outcomes. Definitely sucks the fun out of playing right now for me which is sad, had a lot of fun previously. Now it's more like a chore.
Played MM, but after the patch my overal dropped by 30%. Im competetive with other classes that are 25 ilvl lower. Playing survival till it's fixed, absolutely smashing the numbers with survival.
So bottom line is just stupid competing for a spot against a class tava has anti magic shell, zone, grip, plate. Everything I do a DK can do better and faster. Well at least I can get my weekly 10s as ww, but yknow I wish I was actually good. How do we bring that to every class?
@@countryc0unt It's based on preliminary sims, m+ overall dps data from this week. You can doom all you want, and it sucks I know, but all we have is data at the moment.
As SV main since DF cos I didn’t get the Raz bow and got a stick instead, since the patch dropped I have now apparently become a carry DPS in my guild’s M+ group. I’m just 610, my wep is a Champ track 616 wep, but I’m easily out-DPSing my group’s 623 Frost mage (granted he could just not be that good). I can tell the prob is despite being the ‘tankiest’ of the Hunter specs, still not THAT tanky compared to like a Frost DK, or having much utility beyond Hunter’s Mark. Implosive and Binding are still good tho Burst Shot is IMO too random in the directions mobs fly off too.
Surv is pretty nasty right now. I’m also a hunter main but I play MM for mythic+ and I can keep up with a Surv for the most part that’s around my ilvl but they are pretty damn good right now
@@dominick4820 I think esp in M+, the fact Surv 's damage is basically AOE as a baseline, with our signature Wildfire Bomb, then everything else like Butchery and synergy with Explosive shot on top of it means SV is just that well-suited to M+ where AOE is king and being able to not give up much in single target too. Cos balanced off with being melee, and there's definitely a lot of stuff on the ground that's much more stressful to deal with than back when I played MM or BM for movement.
That’s kinda cap. Any Hunter worth his salt uses traps and they have a great raid buff via their pets for Haste. Not sure what you’re smoking lol. Great CC and avoidance too. Mines an engineer too, so I have a whole other kit for that.
Neither of you know how math works >.> It's a 10% nerf in st and 20% in aoe. Ele I play with isn't happy with he changes but his overall will still be fine. Ascendance is still a potent cool down to play around and can definitely still kill a pack when it needs to die. The dooming is insane. Although I will say enhance getting turbo buffed to be better overall then elemental makes no sense it's like blizzard wants ele to be subpar to enhance this time around
They are in the middle of the pack dps wise and have the worst defense in the game. What are you talking about? did you even play the class? its extremely frustrating that you have to be in bear form half of the time in high keys, spoiler alert, you can't dps from bear form
If you were to make a tier-list for the general player base who aren’t playing at the highest level, I think something like Ret Paladin would be towards the very top. Not only is it one of the strongest specs for overall, the amount of times I have saved players with a quick instant heal, shield or freedom has been invaluable.
I honestly don't even think we're that bad! There's a lot of utility that is nice to have, and CI+SS / CwW conduit feels really good in keys and has a great damage pattern for most pull patterns, and can benefit from downtime and really deliver on important boss expose phases like mists boss 1 or NW boss 3. We lack strong uncapped aoe but we're perfectly fine in smaller 1-5 target pulls with an apex at 3 targets. But everyone has convinced themselves that we're bad even though we really genuinely are not, for once. can't get an invite to save my life, though, and it feels worse now today after this video lol.
I'm doing pretty well in terms of dps as havoc but I gotta admit, having only chaos nova and darkness for keys when things like shaman exist that do 30% more dps on average with PCT, off heals, cap totem, thunderstorm at almost 1/2 the cooldown of chaos nova alone, equally/more relevant raid buff, wind rush totem, tremor totem, ability to res, ankh, and lust I can't help but feel like I'm holding a group back sheerly via class design in really high keys.
@@SomeGuy62121 also you could compare any class atm versus shaman & it would feel bad in terms of utility , but that has always been a class that brings good utility so the problem comes from the dungeon pool & gameplay making shaman so useful
Frost DK is definitely not that easy to play as everyone's saying. With oblit build getting a huge 10% nerf hit, if you want to play BoS, you need to micromamage it properly, know when to use it in the dungeon and its VERY easy to break - due to a simple missclick or mechanics. Sure it shines in +11 keys, but its in a very awkward place for the lower keys and can be easily be out dpsed by ret or enh
100% agree, seems like Blizzard always wants frost dks to play breath, they might aswell remove shatter builds if they dont want anyone to play it. The rotation itself is not hard, but it needs super organized group which arranges pulls according to breath window. In the other side you see a pladin just facerolling and doing super consisted dps all through the dungeon and I bareley see a ret pala not finishing top dps.
@@ismetaskin77 feels great having to ramp and aim half your abilities and then there's the ret pal over there going haha divine storm 1.7m overall go brrrrrrrr
Feral isn’t numerically the absolute worst but dear god they have the worst gameplay in years. Their aoe is quite literally non functional. Right now their aoe is based around a talent that make bite aoe on targets with rip, but with current haste levels/rotation you get literally 1 bite off before having to refresh rip. It would be like outlaw having to spend combo points on blade flurry, build and spend a single dispatch, and then build and spend on blade flurry again. You rely entirely on random free procs in order to actually do aoe damage more than once every 10 seconds. Idk if they just didn’t test it or some numbers got changed last second that made it so bad but their kit in m+ is just nonfunctional. Also kill convoke that button sucks stop making me play it
Unless you’re playing with an MDI-level tank + Aug, Unholy is far better to play than Frost in pugs. Being a 1.5 minute spec has really helped UH. Some of the best passive cleave and by far the safest melee spec. In medium keys you can play Clawing Shadows and do your entire rotation from range.
If you think that shamans are op maybe you are right - go and nerf them. I don't have anything against nerfs even playing playing shaman myself... ofc as long as they don't make us the bottom class again. However, the only issue I have is that when shaman was on the dead bottom during BFa and WoD and we desperatly needed buffs, we never got any and we only heard that it's too hard do fix shaman and we have to wait for next expansion!!! That were the only times I actually had to quit the game not because I did not want to play it but because I could not find a good raiding guild hearing that "nobody plays shaman" over and over again.
Windwalker „unlikely to see“ When I play WW in keys around 8-10 I am mostly highest DPS and I have plenty of defensives. I think that’s a pretty good DPS
It's the player not the class homie. I have ran "d tier" dps toons and out-dps "A and s tier" dps classes in keys. The "meta class just means the class is buffed and likely to perform higher with more ease. Any class can be a "meta" with the right player behind the screen. Glty, have fun and keep rocking that ww. I main bdk but I play at least 1 of each class so I feel for everyone on both sides of the nerfs/buffs.
Was looking for this comment. It sucks these tier lists are a thing bc I out dps most metas in my 8s and a majority of them in my 10s but bc WW is so low on the list no one wants to take a chance on me when I apply to groups. Forced to push my own key and pray the randoms I take aren’t frauds
current numbers is showing like almost 30% nerf to ST on ele with current builds, class is dead atm unless they revert some of these changes. it bring us from top 6 ST dmg in the 95% percentile to bottom by a large amount, AOE nerfs with spymaster warranted but the ST nerfs dont make sense
Hi -- I'm thinking about getting back into WoW. I used to play back in BFA. I've always preferrred DoT classes such as feral druid/aff lock and also just a fiend for top tier dps specs. What class would be good to try if i want to top charts?
Tettles, eveyn when you feel like wow does alot wrong and you dislike it, i love how you still keep the tune uprising and optimistic. So tired of all these neagtive doom creators. Keep it up
So basically to help people out specs in A are played, specs in B+ you might invite if you know they are good player and even then its 50/50 and specs below that see you next patch.
You wrong about ele..i was doing 6 million plus dps and statung at between 3 and 4 constantly without trying..you are right about single target..its up to my RandG im single target
Why cant they just fix aug and make them only buff dps specs in mythic plus, they are only perma meta because of the buffs to the tanks and healers. Once you break the threshold of being able to survive unavoidable damage then aug is mandatory to push beyond that threshold.
The master assassin "nerf" isn't even a nerf. It's duration doubled, while it's crit dropped from 25 to 20%. And we didn't run that talent before the .5 change in any meta spec, now it's used only in single target specs, still not applicable to m+.
Even if you're not going to main balance(that i doubt) can you please update your balance druid guide? Checked many videos and non of them is update or efficient. Since start of the tww i was after maining one but delayed it with mage and dk, i want to make the move and i need your updated guide please.
As a new player it's really frustrating that you didn't mentoon the S tier classes. I assume the ones you didn't put in any tier is S tier, but I don't know the names of them and I don't recognize their icons. But it's nothing I can't figure out with a few google searches, thanks for the video.
hey buddy just thought i would help you seen as though no one else did this is a dps tier list ALL the dps have been listed and spoken about none are in the s tier line because tettles dosent think they are any dps that are s tier the ones underneath/not listed are different roles for example tanks/healers and they get added in his next tier list video etc i hope this helps
Other things come into play than just damage. If you were building the perfect group boom wouldn’t be on it currently. First dk, enhance aug healer pally tank has the by far highest push ceiling
I ran a +10 GB that had all 3 specs of shaman, a rogue, and myself (guardian Druid). Lack of class diversity didn’t matter, shamans are so OP and have incredible toolkits we trivialized the run.
@@Roma_Aeterna you deserve to be told by everyone around you just how wonderful you are at WoW and what a special person you are. Boy have I been set straight.
As a mage main I feel like you're being generous putting Frost in A. Currently it does look like the strongest mage spec but I dont think it's that good overall.
Its the player not the class people. Any "d class" can perform meta level if you know your class/spec well enough. Ive personally done it with more than a few toons. They almost all have ints, cc, stuns, stops, some type disengage, and a dispell/decurse/consume magic. "Meta classes" are only EASIER to perform at higher level because they are buffed/tuned to be easier to play. Group comp is player/class utility, which most successful co.ps can be achieved with any class it just takes thought. Good luck to everyone out there. **not saying the lists arent a factor, just that they arent the "say all, tell all, end all" thing.
Meta is such a bad concept Ive had so much more succes with inviting skilled off meta players like feral and windwalker or so if off meta picks managed to push to a decent rating, with many timed keys played, they will 100% do more damage and mechanics/kicks then meta rerollers that dont understand their spec and/or dungeon
So true. It's annoying how many videos convince people that specs are bad. Should be a huge disclaimer on all of them saying "this matters for 2700+ish io."
@@benwallychow this is a huge logical fallacy though. Your arguements are that good players are good and bad players are bad.... yes, obviously. The point is that a good player playing a good spec will do better than that same good player, playing a bad spec. It's not that difficult to understand really.
@@nordfald3740 Yea that is completely true, but regardless, it doesn't matter until way later. There shouldn't be anyone denying non-meta specs in +6s, etc. for 5% more dps, etc.
Yeah like, I don't feel bad at all but apparently everyone agrees we're terrible now?? Surprise the heck out of me... We've had really dead eras but this does not feel like one to me
The appropriate response to this video is to... NERF FURY WARRIOR AGAIN
as a dps warr main, all I have to say is '...more weight...'
Just delete the spec already. Or ban them all for creating a fury warrior
I think it’s time to make it a Legacy Spec, available only for solo play haha.
they get buffed again though
@@dimitrisfikas7115, till the following week after buff, when they are “performing
Better than expected”.
I’m absolutely smashing as survival hunter out dpsing all the meta characters. It’s definitely underrated.
Thanks for making my main F tier Tettles. Enjoy the balance buffs.
Once tettles says it it's official
Elemental went from a simple rotation with awesome utility and defensives due to CDR to a wierd unbalaced dps god to a caged circusbear.
Long time ele main, but this just feels like a bad joke or a beta.
Yeah, this is a really disappointing development. Ascendance feels really good, but outside of it things are rough.
Also really feeling the poison totem change. :/
bro, dunno, but ele is super strong right now o.O
@ThirtyninerOfficial Yes, ele is stronger now than is warranted.
But these nerfs risk killing the viability of the spec outright.
Needed to be tuned, not nuked.
They un did the nerfs. You’re fine now
@@Nyeusi they undid 2 of the nerfs***
2 that mattered pretty little.
Fellow Elementals, we need to start whinging like Fury Warriors and Holy Paladins in the comments section of every video
Whinge? Warriors were unjustifiably nerfed, hence everyone jumping on the bandwagon meme. Elemental, on the other hand was justifiably nerfed. No one is surprised.
@@juliandib6354 sure it needed a nerf, but not a nerf outside of ascendance.
Could have just nerfed ascedance to 20% haste and 100% overload and that would have fixed it
Elemental wasn't even overturned but straight up bugged. It wasn't a nerf but a fix
Just wait until you learn how to cry like a boonkin
honestly I have zero idea what blizzard were thinking when they decided ele shaman needed a single target nerf, that spec was already middle of the pack for pure ST, this set of nerfs desperately needs SOME kind of compensation buff to lightning bolt/lava burst/whatever otherwise they will be doing literally aug damage
They aren’t thinking that’s the problem
Ele shaman are not in the middle of the pack they've literally got the one of the highest burst.
Now shamans have to change theyr Stats again. Im done with this season. Not going to keep get stressed out by hiw stupid blizz is.
That's why you don't give away drops in raid or m+.. it's easy if you saved them from week one and now use little to no valor to max them ^^
@@thescatterpiratesquarepant7935you definitely don't play with friends
@@DoylePTBbro is talking about valor he doesn’t even play wow 😂
you most likely won't. Mastery still on top
@@zaccole187considering theyre called valorstones now and not flightstones. He’s actually not wrong
Hopefully they revert some of the ele shaman changes in the future. Guess we live it up this week while we can.
Honestly just delete first ascendant and make ascendance a baseline 2 minute CD. Part of the problem right now is the fact spymasters exists, and 3 minute CDs need insane power behind them to justify their strength. So when you stack the two something looks broken AF, and inherently 3m CDs just aren't that fun to play around.
Manather making frost mage look like a GOD
11:40 talk on Ret if anyones looking for it
I am so glad people did not overreact to elemental AT ALL even though they were always worse than enhance (yes, even on wednesday) so blizz went on to not only double tap them but emptied the whole magazine into them.
@@gooseg3822 I guess if you literally don't have a frost dk/sin rogue/enh/surv/ret in the key that would be true
Enh was not better than ele on Wednesday. That is cope. We have numbers to look at.
@@nicholasgraves3149 in raid/single target they still outperformed just not in keys. Which is why a ST nerf for ele is strange, they were middle of the pack it was just AOE when all CDs aligned that it was crazy.
@@nicholasgraves3149that’s why every top key has an Enhance not Elemental right?
a tier list before keys done and with just sims here and there seems a bit off to be honest! for example mass aoe destro may end up being at A! SV NW COT after 2nd boss mists if you pull extra in maze or the end have such profiles
Destro should be in a decent spot after next reset tbh. The unique warlock utility + shadowfury are usually good enough to get into some M+ keys anyway and the damage buff should be enough to not feel embarassed whenever you look at Details. As long as Diabolist remains garbage tier for Destruction in AoE scenarios, there will always be quite the cap on Destruction's potential AoE damage, but you should be able to manage quite fine with Hellcaller in M+ come next week.
I started to fear playing classes that are performing well for this exact reason: you invest time in it , you gear it you craft hundreds of thousand of gold gear on it just to be nerfed in a short time. It feels like we are paying subs for BETA !
Or just play what is fun for you... but then again there are the meta slaves.
its sad about ww cause I love that spec dearly and main brew master and ww off and on since mop. This season I can do decent dmg for the key levels I am doing 10-11s and bring decent play to deal with the affixes with the ability to tod every tank affix nuking its shield almost in one shot. dealing with the haste affix easily with rop or tailsweep
No yeah it's totally fine to kill elemental if enhancement does everything better right? Totally makes sense can't have them both be good
They should've killed enhance. Too many good melee already.
@@Xerus35 enhance was dead during 2 whole expansions already and when we needed buffs they were telling us that we need to wait for the whole new expansion ....
@@Xerus35 no you dolt they should do their best to bring all classes to the same lvls. Why do people not demand buffs to underperforming classes when they get nerfed or another gets buffed? We want all classes to be equally bad? We only want 1 or 2 good classes an expansion? People have no clue what theyre talking about including you
@@Olejowy89 So was ele.
@@tacobowl1342 Blizzard aren't good enough to balance how you want so no point thinking about it. The problem now is there are no good ranged specs.
I like your videos.. you keep things short and concise
Man I wish Blizz would have never reworked Ele shaman, it was fine before and now it’s gutted AND feels worse to play
I play frost dk and mage. Although they're in meta tier here both of them feel horrible to play. Possibly just takes getting used to that pressing the same buttons result in very different outcomes. Definitely sucks the fun out of playing right now for me which is sad, had a lot of fun previously. Now it's more like a chore.
2:11 to 2:18 Tettles got moonkin on the brain 🤣
Played MM, but after the patch my overal dropped by 30%.
Im competetive with other classes that are 25 ilvl lower.
Playing survival till it's fixed, absolutely smashing the numbers with survival.
So bottom line is just stupid competing for a spot against a class tava has anti magic shell, zone, grip, plate.
Everything I do a DK can do better and faster. Well at least I can get my weekly 10s as ww, but yknow I wish I was actually good.
How do we bring that to every class?
putting boomie in b is the most ridiculous shit that spec is THE best in the game. its getting buffed next week.
you speak like donald trump. 100% bullshit
Average boomkin creator behavior
You know this is a straight up lie when boomies spend most of the time in bear form not even dealing damage in high keys
Boomies literally only good in 14+ and above. Their single target is liquid ass as well.
Too add, they also have ass utility, squishy as hell and basically have to swap to bear form for all mechanics.
For those of you panicking, Ele right to the middle of the pack of dps after this, it falls lower because of defensives and other good picks.
for those making stuff up like this guy: He is wrong :)
@@countryc0unt It's based on preliminary sims, m+ overall dps data from this week. You can doom all you want, and it sucks I know, but all we have is data at the moment.
As SV main since DF cos I didn’t get the Raz bow and got a stick instead, since the patch dropped I have now apparently become a carry DPS in my guild’s M+ group. I’m just 610, my wep is a Champ track 616 wep, but I’m easily out-DPSing my group’s 623 Frost mage (granted he could just not be that good). I can tell the prob is despite being the ‘tankiest’ of the Hunter specs, still not THAT tanky compared to like a Frost DK, or having much utility beyond Hunter’s Mark. Implosive and Binding are still good tho Burst Shot is IMO too random in the directions mobs fly off too.
Surv is pretty nasty right now. I’m also a hunter main but I play MM for mythic+ and I can keep up with a Surv for the most part that’s around my ilvl but they are pretty damn good right now
@@dominick4820 I think esp in M+, the fact Surv 's damage is basically AOE as a baseline, with our signature Wildfire Bomb, then everything else like Butchery and synergy with Explosive shot on top of it means SV is just that well-suited to M+ where AOE is king and being able to not give up much in single target too. Cos balanced off with being melee, and there's definitely a lot of stuff on the ground that's much more stressful to deal with than back when I played MM or BM for movement.
Buff windwalker
The issue with survival is the fact that it is a hunter, right now. Any other class in the game just has better utility.
That’s kinda cap. Any Hunter worth his salt uses traps and they have a great raid buff via their pets for Haste. Not sure what you’re smoking lol. Great CC and avoidance too. Mines an engineer too, so I have a whole other kit for that.
i main ele and this video going into next week ill never get into a 10 key ever again thanks man
It's def the video and not the 20% nerf.
More like 40 if you take the 2 changes combined.
Neither of you know how math works >.> It's a 10% nerf in st and 20% in aoe. Ele I play with isn't happy with he changes but his overall will still be fine. Ascendance is still a potent cool down to play around and can definitely still kill a pack when it needs to die. The dooming is insane. Although I will say enhance getting turbo buffed to be better overall then elemental makes no sense it's like blizzard wants ele to be subpar to enhance this time around
The issue is not this video or this nerf; It is the fact that resto shaman is meta
@@tacobowl1342 If DPS is fine and survivability is on the lower end, and ST absolute trash, why in gods name would I bring them?
Tettles didn't even give ret pals their own chapter in the video???!? You sir will rue the day. [logs on to retgang forum and starts angrily posting]
balance druids continutely to get away with murder. I swear half of the devs play that spec. Can they be trash just one patch ffs
They are D tier dps currently. Check warcraftlogs
They are in the middle of the pack dps wise and have the worst defense in the game. What are you talking about? did you even play the class? its extremely frustrating that you have to be in bear form half of the time in high keys, spoiler alert, you can't dps from bear form
ww monk has been shit for 10 years..in a decade they never been in top 5 dps. let that sink in...
blizzard a bunch of bullies
They were literally the best M+ DPS in the game back in season 2 of Shadowlands, which was, huh, not 10+ years ago. Let that sink in...
@@Frawt4-5 years for a spec to be good is still a long time? Keep your dumb comments to yourself
If you were to make a tier-list for the general player base who aren’t playing at the highest level, I think something like Ret Paladin would be towards the very top.
Not only is it one of the strongest specs for overall, the amount of times I have saved players with a quick instant heal, shield or freedom has been invaluable.
I decided to main wind walker this expansion, its fun to play but you don't get invited.
I honestly don't even think we're that bad! There's a lot of utility that is nice to have, and CI+SS / CwW conduit feels really good in keys and has a great damage pattern for most pull patterns, and can benefit from downtime and really deliver on important boss expose phases like mists boss 1 or NW boss 3. We lack strong uncapped aoe but we're perfectly fine in smaller 1-5 target pulls with an apex at 3 targets. But everyone has convinced themselves that we're bad even though we really genuinely are not, for once.
can't get an invite to save my life, though, and it feels worse now today after this video lol.
they just completely ignore havoc dhs we will never be in a good spot
Havoc is legit a forgotten spec. Some specs have had more lines in patch notes in 1 patch than havoc has had since season 3 (almost 1 entire year)
we have had our moment of glory in dragonflight recently so i think they wont make another rework of it for a while
I'm doing pretty well in terms of dps as havoc but I gotta admit, having only chaos nova and darkness for keys when things like shaman exist that do 30% more dps on average with PCT, off heals, cap totem, thunderstorm at almost 1/2 the cooldown of chaos nova alone, equally/more relevant raid buff, wind rush totem, tremor totem, ability to res, ankh, and lust I can't help but feel like I'm holding a group back sheerly via class design in really high keys.
@@SomeGuy62121 also you could compare any class atm versus shaman & it would feel bad in terms of utility , but that has always been a class that brings good utility so the problem comes from the dungeon pool & gameplay making shaman so useful
@@TheMrMarkx for just only season3 from df ? look at the Red p. and rogue mage they are always been strong
meanwhile shaman totems are doing more damage then fire mage spells
FROST DK ACTUALLY GOOD FOR ONCE? UNBELIEVABLE.
Frost DK is definitely not that easy to play as everyone's saying. With oblit build getting a huge 10% nerf hit, if you want to play BoS, you need to micromamage it properly, know when to use it in the dungeon and its VERY easy to break - due to a simple missclick or mechanics. Sure it shines in +11 keys, but its in a very awkward place for the lower keys and can be easily be out dpsed by ret or enh
100% agree, seems like Blizzard always wants frost dks to play breath, they might aswell remove shatter builds if they dont want anyone to play it. The rotation itself is not hard, but it needs super organized group which arranges pulls according to breath window. In the other side you see a pladin just facerolling and doing super consisted dps all through the dungeon and I bareley see a ret pala not finishing top dps.
@@ismetaskin77 feels great having to ramp and aim half your abilities and then there's the ret pal over there going haha divine storm 1.7m overall go brrrrrrrr
MY orange fire mage single target raidlogs allmost are beating tanks now O.o
Blizzard needs to make up their mind. What do they want in class dps!?
Feral isn’t numerically the absolute worst but dear god they have the worst gameplay in years. Their aoe is quite literally non functional. Right now their aoe is based around a talent that make bite aoe on targets with rip, but with current haste levels/rotation you get literally 1 bite off before having to refresh rip. It would be like outlaw having to spend combo points on blade flurry, build and spend a single dispatch, and then build and spend on blade flurry again. You rely entirely on random free procs in order to actually do aoe damage more than once every 10 seconds. Idk if they just didn’t test it or some numbers got changed last second that made it so bad but their kit in m+ is just nonfunctional. Also kill convoke that button sucks stop making me play it
I've mained feral since bfa. But they 100% killed the cat for me this time around.. couldn't even let us keep our extra 5yard range
TLDR don’t play 3/4 of the classes in WOW
Outlaw that low is crazy bro
Poor ele shamans. Their time has come and gone too quickly.
As an outlaw rogue, cry some more….
@Fox250R true
Unless you’re playing with an MDI-level tank + Aug, Unholy is far better to play than Frost in pugs. Being a 1.5 minute spec has really helped UH.
Some of the best passive cleave and by far the safest melee spec. In medium keys you can play Clawing Shadows and do your entire rotation from range.
something feels really FCKd with frost after the patch my aoe got kicked in the nuts, way more than 2.5%
If you think that shamans are op maybe you are right - go and nerf them. I don't have anything against nerfs even playing playing shaman myself... ofc as long as they don't make us the bottom class again.
However, the only issue I have is that when shaman was on the dead bottom during BFa and WoD and we desperatly needed buffs, we never got any and we only heard that it's too hard do fix shaman and we have to wait for next expansion!!! That were the only times I actually had to quit the game not because I did not want to play it but because I could not find a good raiding guild hearing that "nobody plays shaman" over and over again.
Windwalker „unlikely to see“
When I play WW in keys around 8-10 I am mostly highest DPS and I have plenty of defensives.
I think that’s a pretty good DPS
It's the player not the class homie. I have ran "d tier" dps toons and out-dps "A and s tier" dps classes in keys. The "meta class just means the class is buffed and likely to perform higher with more ease. Any class can be a "meta" with the right player behind the screen. Glty, have fun and keep rocking that ww. I main bdk but I play at least 1 of each class so I feel for everyone on both sides of the nerfs/buffs.
Yeah I love how people sleep on WW. I main monk and in M plus I only get out dpsed by ret pallies
Was looking for this comment. It sucks these tier lists are a thing bc I out dps most metas in my 8s and a majority of them in my 10s but bc WW is so low on the list no one wants to take a chance on me when I apply to groups. Forced to push my own key and pray the randoms I take aren’t frauds
@@TJ-er4qbyou hit home 😢
Nothing in S tier, the coward's tier list.
I don't know why, but I legitimately can't stand when people do tier lists in order of tier, as opposed to in order of the specs on the bottom
Fire is not that bad after nerfs. ST is poor, but the AOE makes up for it
Elem unluckily to see? No way
Still haven’t found a dps to top me on overall as unholy up to around 12s range 🤷🏻♂️ Not a single run. Will see further up in level.
current numbers is showing like almost 30% nerf to ST on ele with current builds, class is dead atm unless they revert some of these changes. it bring us from top 6 ST dmg in the 95% percentile to bottom by a large amount, AOE nerfs with spymaster warranted but the ST nerfs dont make sense
Hi -- I'm thinking about getting back into WoW. I used to play back in BFA. I've always preferrred DoT classes such as feral druid/aff lock and also just a fiend for top tier dps specs. What class would be good to try if i want to top charts?
frost dk unholy dk aswell unholy more then frost but frost is just a little better dps
Tettles, eveyn when you feel like wow does alot wrong and you dislike it, i love how you still keep the tune uprising and optimistic. So tired of all these neagtive doom creators. Keep it up
So basically to help people out specs in A are played, specs in B+ you might invite if you know they are good player and even then its 50/50 and specs below that see you next patch.
I predict boomie to move up in S tier (not for mdi). It will crush shit with buffs
What are these devs smoking? They need to nerf Fury warrior for sure. Crazy crazy devs. Why won't they do it???????
i think the demo buff is insane.
they should have never let a support class be the strongest dps for this long..
GUYS IF U PUG THIS TIERLIST DOESNT MATTER
idk watching critcake battle the tank in dps doesn't seem fine to me, the buff will help but man it looks rough
You wrong about ele..i was doing 6 million plus dps and statung at between 3 and 4 constantly without trying..you are right about single target..its up to my RandG im single target
I'm looking at the list and am in tettles.
I don’t agree with the ret placement bottom line it was only a 3% nerf
nerf boomie yall trippin
i dont get the target cap on warrior arms, already a not op class and get nerfs
The top rogues in the world are playing sub is it only viable for high level keys?
Destro S tier!! See you next week when you eat your words!
Paladin is S tier, no one can change my mind.
I think next week arms gonna pass fury in m+ representation
Why cant they just fix aug and make them only buff dps specs in mythic plus, they are only perma meta because of the buffs to the tanks and healers. Once you break the threshold of being able to survive unavoidable damage then aug is mandatory to push beyond that threshold.
FDK IS piece of text!
Yeah, outlaw is not C..
It's a decent B at least.
Thanks for killing demo and telling everyone to not take it at all. Its already hard enough just to get into 10s to 12s as it is.
My favorite part about demo is not getting killed like every other dps in my group. Dead dps = no dps
Oh here sham, monk and furry war.. I'm brez u
ele dmg is still more then good
Oh god, boomkin buffs, looks like warriors getting undocumented nerfs the week after.
Havoc in C, but still got played in the MDI :)
The master assassin "nerf" isn't even a nerf. It's duration doubled, while it's crit dropped from 25 to 20%.
And we didn't run that talent before the .5 change in any meta spec, now it's used only in single target specs, still not applicable to m+.
-5% is still -5%. Duration isn’t doubled it will be 6 seconds as it is this week. Slight nerf, but we won’t feel it probably
Even if you're not going to main balance(that i doubt) can you please update your balance druid guide? Checked many videos and non of them is update or efficient. Since start of the tww i was after maining one but delayed it with mage and dk, i want to make the move and i need your updated guide please.
Try figuring it out on your own if that's what you want to play? Lmao wtf
Ele is A tier no question
Not after the nerfs on reset.
Ive heard its is 24% ST nerf and 16% AOE for ele which is crazy because ST was never amazing or OP.
As a feral main for many many years. Numbers wise it's ok- ganeplay wise the spec is dead. The worst its ever been to play imo
feel like the only way to play tww is either have enough geared alts to battle all the nerf / buffs or you jus dont gaf 😂
Aug sucks stop using it as a crutch button
Sin rogue did not get a buff in St in m+
As a new player it's really frustrating that you didn't mentoon the S tier classes. I assume the ones you didn't put in any tier is S tier, but I don't know the names of them and I don't recognize their icons. But it's nothing I can't figure out with a few google searches, thanks for the video.
hey buddy just thought i would help you seen as though no one else did this is a dps tier list ALL the dps have been listed and spoken about
none are in the s tier line because tettles dosent think they are any dps that are s tier
the ones underneath/not listed are different roles for example tanks/healers and they get added in his next tier list video etc i hope this helps
@@itsnay7382 Ohh okay, I understand. Sorry for not paying attention, and thank you for the clarification!
It is considering buffs?
They nerved Arcane Mage so much. Started playing Mage 3 weeks ago and it feels way worse now :(
Oh boo-hoo. Now you’re only doing 300k dps more than all 3 warlock specs instead of 400k.
@@nexigram I am sry bro. I always played tank or healer so I didn't care to much about dps tuning. Feels really bad if you are not in the top half lol
@@KoalaSTP just play frost or som. 1 of the 3 specs is always been played in the top comps since bfa.
They nerfed arcane mage enough so that all the noobs like you are all being exposed for being low skill fotm clowns
Arcane is 100% fine
Balance in every high key puts it in b even after buffs?
Other things come into play than just damage. If you were building the perfect group boom wouldn’t be on it currently. First dk, enhance aug healer pally tank has the by far highest push ceiling
It's called sandbagging/gaslighting
The Paladins ..... always DPS Gods......... must be the Bubble idk ;)
I ran a +10 GB that had all 3 specs of shaman, a rogue, and myself (guardian Druid). Lack of class diversity didn’t matter, shamans are so OP and have incredible toolkits we trivialized the run.
It's a ten lol everything trivializes that
@@timothyduran2381 not in pugs
It’s a 10, not a 14. What do you expect
@@Roma_Aeterna you deserve to be told by everyone around you just how wonderful you are at WoW and what a special person you are. Boy have I been set straight.
@@stevenvegh7964...he's not wrong though.
As a mage main I feel like you're being generous putting Frost in A. Currently it does look like the strongest mage spec but I dont think it's that good overall.
Its the player not the class people. Any "d class" can perform meta level if you know your class/spec well enough. Ive personally done it with more than a few toons. They almost all have ints, cc, stuns, stops, some type disengage, and a dispell/decurse/consume magic. "Meta classes" are only EASIER to perform at higher level because they are buffed/tuned to be easier to play. Group comp is player/class utility, which most successful co.ps can be achieved with any class it just takes thought. Good luck to everyone out there. **not saying the lists arent a factor, just that they arent the "say all, tell all, end all" thing.
Frost mage need buffs. i cant even get into groups because i can only do 1.4m dps lmao. none of this 5/6/7m overall dps.
Meta is such a bad concept
Ive had so much more succes with inviting skilled off meta players like feral and windwalker or so
if off meta picks managed to push to a decent rating, with many timed keys played, they will 100% do more damage and mechanics/kicks then meta rerollers that dont understand their spec and/or dungeon
So true. It's annoying how many videos convince people that specs are bad. Should be a huge disclaimer on all of them saying "this matters for 2700+ish io."
@@benwallychow this is a huge logical fallacy though. Your arguements are that good players are good and bad players are bad.... yes, obviously. The point is that a good player playing a good spec will do better than that same good player, playing a bad spec. It's not that difficult to understand really.
@@nordfald3740 Yea that is completely true, but regardless, it doesn't matter until way later. There shouldn't be anyone denying non-meta specs in +6s, etc. for 5% more dps, etc.
RIP fire mage again 😢
Elemental devs are high
Yesterday i was doing good dmg with my ele z today i do 0
Wish the community would focus more on teaching people to be better instead of tier lists which tear the community apart.. not good
Sad how much windwalker utility is overlooked. Their prio damage is also phenomenal
Yeah like, I don't feel bad at all but apparently everyone agrees we're terrible now?? Surprise the heck out of me... We've had really dead eras but this does not feel like one to me
Thanks for the detailed description of demo saying "it's destro but worse" gtfo I'm playing it ranks are stupid i play what i want