Blizzard FIXED M+ Season 2??? - Peril Moved, 10s Easier, Depletion Changes, and MORE!!!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2025
- Blizzard is cooking with these changes. All of the changes are very good in this post. Players who are pugging 10s have an easier time. Players who want to push have a reward to push for at 13s. Peril has moved to be only for the high end. Key deleveling changes reduce the amount of homework you have to do. The system will have better flow for sure.
You should watch me live on Twitch:
▶ Stream / tettles
▶ Discord / discord
▶ Patreon / moonkinmonthly
i hate that myth track loot only comes from the vault for m+ players. it creates a very weird permanent disadvantage for anyone starting late. it takes 16 weeks of vault rewards to fill out a M+ character in myth gear, no matter when you start. and that's if you're lucky.
yeah i think +12 and higher should drop myth track gear.
you can craft and get only 3ilvls lower
The changes to crafting pricing helps a lot with this, but yeah there should still be more done to help m+ only players
I think something like you can get 1 myth track drop from a 12 per week would be good and not too OP as a farmable mode (with that 1 having a catchup mechanic for alts, e.g., you can get 6 drops if you start 6 weeks late). It would double the amount of myth track per week from M+ without devaluing raid gear as much. The issue is that they don't want raiders to be forced to do a ton of M+ on the side to be competitive in the raid.
Crafting helps a lot. And you can also raid at least 2 bosses on Mythic, for loot + 1 slot vault. They are not much harder than final HC boss. So it's not that bad. The only issue is complete RNG of the vault so you may never see a bis m+ trinket on myth track.
All in all a big W, I only wonder how +10s will feel now. I usually play a few characters to 2600-2700 io every season because i enjoy gearing and learning new classes. In general I felt this season that packs die way too quick when people pop cd's. Now with reduced health and damage i wonder how the weekly's will feel like
As a scrub who used to do 7-10 in DF and now can’t be bothered even to learn 5s, I love all of this.
You do realize the 5s currently are supposed to be like 15s in dragonflight?
@ yes
So as a scrub who used to do 7 to 10s, you can’t be bothered to learn 15s now? How does that make sense?
@ the rewards don’t matter to me, and the dungeons are too hard if I’m not getting familiar enough with them. I guess I’m just getting older, too. So having next season be more friendly will encourage me to M+ more.
@@Faint0903 He said 7-10 in DF wich means it's 3-5 TWW that are even harder than in DF.
A S2 +12 has lower scaling (+122%) than a S1 +10 (+136%), and that's before you consider that Guile is no longer buffing the dungeon mobs.
Honestly this is going to make pugging weeklies a far more pleasant experience.
W changes.
S2 m0 is scaled higher than s1 m0. So +10 might end up being similar overall in terms of mob hp and damage, removal of 15s death penalty is huge tho
@@keiya9895 That for sure was needed m0 season 1 was way too undertuned.
@@keiya9895did they make a post about that anywhere? Or is this just based on how it feels in PTR
@@timmy3211 they basically said that m0 in season 2 will be scaled slightly higher than m0 in season 1, to justify m0 rewarding champion gear instead of veteran. so because actual keys scale from m0's tuning, it should only result in a slight nerf i think
The note that says "people coming out of delves looked at M+ and saw the only sensible play is to go directly into +7s" is so infuriating to read like yeah, you guys LITERALLY designed it this way. Has nobody pointed this out while Delve rewards were being designed?
you can still lower your key with the npc if you want to
Still pretty criminal that you just can't get myth gear from m+ aside from your weekly vault gamble. Even a one time dinar from keystone hero would make m+ feel infinitely less bad and give people something to actually push for now that the tier token got converted to a catalyst charge. I played all of season 3 dragonflight and never got a cheat death trinket on my tank, at a certain point it feels like a waste of time to even log in when gear is a slot machine that often never pays out over an entire season.
Agree, as Survival Hunter and Resto Druid, I played all S1 with a crafted weapon cause I never got a myth weapon drop from vault...
Yep, nothing discourages me personally more than that. And don’t even get me started on alts
Good changes sad we had to wait till season 2 for them.
This is actually so sick I'm excited for S2 again!
What a banger changes! Deplete one is game changer for me, since i was prettt damn burned from it, playing semi pug grps, going 2 key levels below what i need felt terrible af, sometimes just straight up done for the week
@Tettles It looks like it reads that the 10% additional flat increase that was on M+ 12 and higher is being removed and replaced with death penalty. It says that the flat 10% extra created a wall and is being removed. Unless I read it wrong. So it seems they higher keys will just have the 10% per key level and not the key level 10% plus the affix 10%
I think the affix 10% got removed. Guile was being changed to be 12% scaling per key level instead of basically being another key level. I believe that was posted in the original affix changes a few months ago.
Big w for the pug scene for those pushing 12+, no more risk (eventually) of having ur key plummet to the depths of hell.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out, because if someone has the achieve for no deplete, u could just spam that key with a group. Feel like this is good because u could make more friends if u guys have like 5 shots at the key instead of 1, especially if u died to some stupid shit eg first pull
Damn what a good day
Perfect changes.
The only thing I would change further, is remove key depletion completely. As you mentioned at 12:05, key depletion is a problem at high keys, but it is also a problem in low/mid keys as well, when people want to practice.
Just remove it, and if someone feels a key is too high for him to complete, it can still be lowered at the NPC
Moving Peril to 12 is the change ive been saying needed to be done. Currently its not an affix. If you are getting farmed you just depelete faster and if you play properly it dosent exsist for you.
Dungeons under 12 are so easy that you can still time with double digit deaths. Moving it to 12 actually puts a niticable change at the +7 level and lets the higher and higher end keys focus more on not dying (where it matters more).
Peril is still a dumb affix. Higher keys if you wipe it's over anyways bc the timer is already incredibly tight. All peril does is make it so even 1 death can be a brick which is not fun game design. Forcing you to play perfectly when there's such a thing as random targeted abilities that have no prio on who has defensive for it or not is a cheesy way of killing the key.
@tacobowl1342 the checkpoint system takes more time than Peril could ever dream of. The 2 minute walk back to Master Machinists or whatever is what bricks your key and not the added 50 seconds from Peril.
@@amethonys2798 the checkpoints have been shitty for a while but blizzard has been working to make them better. Peril has nothing to do with that though they just realize they're shitty checkpoints. Make the checkpoints better while removing peril and m+ won't feel like it's a brick if someone died while doing a 16 or 17.
For multiple seasons now I've done mythic plus and played for title. Got several titles now and it felt fat more forgiving previously even with bad cps to make up time if there was any deaths in the mid tier keys but atm it's just a brick. If there was any deaths at the Pinnacle of keys it was fried even without peril. Forcing high end key gameplay on mid tier keystone players is bad for the health of the game mode
W changes from blizzard. very excited to the key level floor thing. I do think it will encourage some people to buy odd keys however like they might be missing just GB on a certain key level to progress to the next
I'm hoping they release solo que M+ next expansion.
This was my first time playing retail (classic andy) and M+ for that matter. I was able to time all +10 by week 3 and was having a great time. After that the experience just became a slog. I played a windwalker monk and spent far more time trying to find a group then actually running dungeons.
Using my own keys doesn't solve the issue either as players preferred not to play with a windwalker, deranking your key is punishing and forces you to run lower M+, and being the leader of the group means you have to be actively engaged finding all remaining group members.
Switching to Brewmaster would have made it easier but I'd still have to be engaged and actively look for a group and the higher IO you go the harder it becomes if you aren't meta, even as a tank.
I just want to play the game, not play the find a group simulator.
I'd rather sit in a que for 30 minutes then be forced to actively look for a group for 30+ minutes. They're 2 totally different things.
Wow, long tistic post to say you didn't care enough to put the effort forth to do the things. I hope you find a game worth playing to you
@Tettles Why does the post say " From Mythic 2 through 10, each new level will now increase the health and damage of enemies by 7%, down from the previous 10%. Per-level scaling will remain at 10% for Mythic 11 onwards." YET the CHART states otherwise on health/damage. Example: M7 +50% to M8 +61% is equal to an 11% increase NOT 7%? Confused.
They were changing the scaling in S2 already, but now they're changing it again.
@@Tettles Thank you for the update:)
M+ scaling is multiplicative, not additive.
150% * 1.07 = 160.5%
@@ElOvnen Ty for explaining:)
Last part is the biggest thumbs up a long time!
I think instead of having to time all at that level it should be per dungeon. Since all dungeons aren't made evenly. Like you said grim is going to be lower then your other keys. So since you cant do that at x level your keys can still drop to its level kinda still making your key dead. So imo it should be like beyond x level keystone. your key can't be lowered below the level of your highest timed key for that dungeon, unless manually lowered.
You totally just came when you read about keys no longer depleting above 12
I think the deplete thing not being given to more players is still pretty unfair. At the very least it should start at 10 because of weekly rewards but should be expended down maybe do it at track reward break points for the great vault if they don't want to do every key level.
This is a volcanic take, but I think an issue that is not addressed with low keys and is only going to get exacerbated with the lower scaling is it is TOO EASY to climb a key early on.
Before we get the pitchforks out hear me out. Little Timmy knows nothing and lists his own +2 he got. Let's pretend it is idk a Grim Batol or something. He makes a group of the first people to sign up and they VERY EASILY 3 chest the key since I genuinely don't think you can avoid at least 2 chesting a 2 assuming one single dps has hands. He now has a +5 Arakara. Lists that and everything goes okay, but they wipe like twice to the last boss. They still 2 chest it. Timmy now has a +7 Necrotic Wake after 2 keys and has never done the dungeon before in his life and has also looted 0 items so he's probably "undergeared" so he does poor damage and completely griefs his group on Stitchflesh by being the only one targetted for the hook and not knowing the mechanic (he's never been in this dungeon). Is this REALLY his fault? All he's done is list the key Blizzard keeps giving him which is what anyone on the internet tells you to do in order to get into groups with no experience.
I partially agree with what you are saying, but there are 2 things to consider.
1. You have RiO score to look at. I would personally never join a +7 with a random person who barely has 2 dungeons done and such low RiO. You take on 7s above 1500 Rio. Unless it's an alt of another char that is already at that score.
2. As a key holder, you can always lower your key to a lvl that still feels challenging for you, but you have a higher chance to make it. I do the same thing when a new season starts, even if I +2 or +3 a key with a good pug, I lower it to the lvl I feel comfortable, especially when healing, and I tend to get all my dungeons at that lvl first, then increase with +1 or +2 at most.
So it's people's fault they get frustrated, not the key holder. Also, the key holder should expect key depletion if he queues above his weight.
I didn’t notice prior, but why is the difficulty jump from 10 to 11 so large? It’s a nearly 20% jump?
The chart shows *additional* HP/dmg - starting from 100%. 102% at +10 really means 202% (100% + 102%).
On top of this, M+ scaling is multiplicative, not additive.
202% * 1.10 = 222%
@ it did eventually click that this was the case, but thank you for the response; I didn’t understand the calculation implied an initial 100% difficulty, although it makes sense.
I can't wait to see the first person who starts selling guaranteed depletes because their key still won't go down so they can just keep bringing people in and slow rolling the dungeon.
THIS IS HUGE
They basicly reverted the squish without increasing the requirements for loot (end of dungeon and vault) so season2 m+ will be the easiest it has ever been since its introduction if everything of this comes through
After spending a bunch of time in 12+ keys.
M+ doesnt need anything but tyrannical and fortified. Affixes have no true place especially with seasonal dungeons.
Affixes were there to change things up, but i argue the seasonal style of wow now its just better to let us learn the pure dungeon and our classes. The affixes eventually become irrelevent if you push far enough any way.
Depletion protection should affect all key levels and be on a per dungeon basis. Even if it is a +7 or whatever you are already doing a dungeon you do not get score from so why should it also still risk depletion as well due to a DC or whatever nonsense can happen in pisslow?
It's also really silly I would have to "go out of my way" to do the 8th dungeon I probably don't want to do just to "protect" the other 7 especially if your personal key refuses to roll into it so you have to hope someone invites you to theirs.
Keys having a Floor also means that unwanted Keys can be easily reset, yes?
Instead of having to time a Key to have the option of changing it at the end, can't we just start the unwanted Key and reset the Instance to automatically re-roll the Key? And doesn't this also mean that specific Keys can easily be "fished" for and spammed repeatedly?
I suppose since the Floor doesn't begin until 12+ this prevents degenerate weekly-10's spam of the Season's easiest Key, but does it have any strange implications for the high-end?
the keys remain unchanged if it fails
Tettles, it says INSTEAD of the 10% it is now challenger's peril, please read
i don't think this will solve much in the end. easied dungeon or not you will still declined nonstop if you don't have a meta spec
Seeing as they have gradually been increasing the difficulty of M+ each expansion until it got too much for some players and people cried out these seem like good changes. They haven't really fixed the on ramp issue caused by Delves but atleast it won't be quite as severe a jump.
I think they should buff end of dungeon rewards too, (+13 drops Myth 1), having to fish for one bis item from the great vault is just awful.
Remember what the gv used to be...
1 item only. If they get it right, I'm not going to be critical about the timing. Just get it fixed and make it fun so my friends won't leave after a few weeks and aotc.
@@leighjamieson1856 yea but you could titanforge in dg and actually get good stuff
I'm still not sure the death timer increase per death is a good thing. Yes it does emphasize on execution, however, in pugs how is that supposed to work? It basically expects you to have a full premade. Also, the amount of keys that got depleted from the tank just getting 1shot or as tettles mentioned, aoe layered with perma casting mobs, is pretty annoying. It's just so weird, you go into the key, spent 5 seconds on a pull. Whoops tank 1shot, ggs nt. Very strange dynamic.
Given the new scaling and achievements. Might as well just scale the achievements back up to the 10-20 level at this point and just chalk up all these issues to poor changes in congruence with the key squish.
When’s the next video after the balance changes to tww dungeons tettles? Can you hook me up with more headphone content while I’m in the office? Like 20-30 minutes?
With these changes doing all 13s will feel like the new KSM and im ok with that because it seems entirely reasonable and not out of anyones reach.
Seems like W changes to me
Look no I don't care about these changes, they should have been baseline from the start not touted as a "perk" of season 2.
REMOVE KEY DEPLETIONS. Keeping it for 0.01% of the playerbase is beyond stupid.
Reduce the grind for alts, nobody wants to do 100 keys on their main let alone do it again for every alt. I simply won't do anything on alts of this is the case and WILL just raidlog and do my weekly 4 keys then play another game.
Your choice Blizzard.
People keep talking about players coming out of delves and jumping into 7s. That’s complete BS. Who the hell is inviting someone in champ gear to a 7 with zero io? The answer is literally no one.
You can definitely have full champ track gear and be 619 ilvl and be invited to a 7. I think that definitely could happen.
They don't need to change M+. They need to reverse their changes to Tanks. Having your tank be made of paper and falling over dead to white swings while trying to group up a pack of mobs is not fun. S1 TWW has been a tank problem, and now they are moving to S2, which is a healing problem with the new mobs that can not be CC'd and cast an AoE pulse. Just go back to S4 DF and watch the Subs pour in... Someone said it below already, but how your character feels is the most essential part of this game. It doesn't matter what rewards you offer or not; if your favorite toon isn't fun, you are NOT going to play the game.
This is all good. I think this is big for the player base, and the biggest thing is the philosophy and messaging here says, "We are actually listening". I also think you very much underplayed the 7% change. You also completely failed to mentioned how the M+ difficulty cumulatively stacks into 10+ as well.
2 things:
1) Challenger's Peril. Why is this still in the game at all? It's just bad design, it's not fun whatsoever, delete it. Find something else. I would rather you invent a ball torturing goblin, at least that would be creative and interesting.
2) Loot and actual number difficulty isn't really a big concern for me. I like the cast time increase idea. This is the sort of thing that needs to happen. Maybe Challenger's Peril makes casts happen faster???? wow look at that I invented something more interesting in two seconds. But anyways, this is what needs to happen. It's not that the numbies are too big. It's that the design is bullshit. Give me AoE stoppage back. Give me fun back instead of kick everything for a century or die. Let me play my class, maybe?
Probably this season will still be dogshit tbh. I won't sub until week 3 maybe. Season 3 has a chance with this sort of messaging.
People who gear through delves are the same who wear socks with sandals.
Massive W tbh
3 weeks into next season people would have found new problems and will be back farming complain videos. Just because you are not going to have your old problems, it's not going to mean that it's goin to be fine. It's trade, we are going in design circles, having breaks. It's like removing tier sets and getting the back into the game again.
The "On Ramp" problem with Mythic+ is that there isn't one.
Nothing in this game teaches you dungeon mechanics.
The only way to learn dungeons is outside the game in guides and videos.
And even then a lot of guides miss important details for your specific class or role.
You don't learn how to play the dungeon in a guide you learn it by running the dungeon
It's been like this forever, even with raiding. You always had to watch videos for bosses etc. Like what do you expect?
Peril is still the worst affix to exist. Higher end keys are over if theres a full wipe anyways bc the timer is so tight already. Peril just makes it so even 1 death can be a rip which is cheap.
Theres quite a few mobs that will do random targetted bolts and they dont ever seem to have a priority on who has defensives for being hit they can bolt someone 3 or 4 times in a row and force a death like that. Keys done at the high end will then fail bc 1 death cost them not 5 seconds but more like 10 or so bc the loss of damage the run back time the res time so many factors. The old version was far less punishing this peril affix is Incredibly toxic
They always say stuff like that. I believe it when I see it
The scaling changes are massive. 12's next season are like a 9.5 from this season. 10's are like a 7.5. 2850 is going to be like KSH, I would expect. Anyone halfway decent is going to be at least 3.3k+.
Is this factoring the buffs to m0? Might balance stuff out a little more, but no peril alone will be a huge nerf.
@gwenmh good question. I am not sure.
i will able to solo do the key as tank so?
Where is my Brewmaster rework?
This is a dub all around
This is good news but they still are not addressing one of the bigger issues very much, only slightly addressing it, tanking still sucks and is not fun currently. IDC how awesome the content or the rewards are, if I am not having fun due to my class/role fundamentally not being fun to play, I am not going to play. This is being compounded by tanks either being ignored, see brew and BDK, or undeserved nerfs + disconnected class changes, see prot warrior. The end of the story will be this season will last at most 2 months before people are pissed again.
I mean these are almost certainly 2 different sets of people. The people who make M+ are part of the "encounter design" team while the people who balance tanks are part of the "class design" team.
They literally have addressed it, I’ve tanked a few 12s on the ptr and it feels like dragonflight. Actually untouchable by anything except minibosses and bosses and the rare out of tune regular mob which is what it should be. I’m not sure what you’ve been seeing but tanking feels actually incredible on the ptr.
@@kenlonwells2219 I'm happy to hear that. While I dont mind some difficulty to things, having white mobs hit tanks for most of their health made it feel like you could really only get away with playing the meta spec and I'm so bored of paladin.
@@kenlonwells2219 what tanks have you been playing as? just curious, haven't bothered testing any on ptr yet
@@liamdavies2823 each of them except brew, my take away is self healing and self sustain drain tanks are dealing with the dungeons much better. I'm not coping and I don't think it'll be a bdk season but holy blood feels absolutely insane right now. Prot pally, and vdh feel strong as well, bear is up there in survivability but is just doing zero damage not sure why. Warrior feels descent until I look at the meters and I realize my healer is pumping into me constantly just a lot of rot damage that doesn't care about active mit so its rough for their profile.
Now just remove valorstones and lower mythic track gear in the vault to 8 or 9's =]
1:17 of what has been
Still no Myth track dropping from M+, not even a few weeks into the patch. Lame.
how would that be balanced?
@@dojyr3130 give it a weekly lockout or something. it's not out of question
@@siyoiii7709 or just put it in higher keys. Anyone arguing that M Ulthrax is harder a +15 GB or NW or whatever is straight up lying to themselves.
@@dojyr3130 after the hall of fame is filled, m+ players can loot up to 2 pieces of myth gear per week from +12 and up. what's wrong with that
This guy doesn't even know to zoom in the webpage so that the audience can read with him.
You are watching a video???? 😂😂😂😂😂
Only losers reroll to meta specs every season. So tired of inviting them to be perma dead the whole dungeon.
I am going to get hate for this, but I haven't played wow in years, came back two months ago and got all 10-11 keys across the board in less than a month, I feel like Mythic plus is at its easiest place in years....
this is the kind of people that should be banned from the game because he is against pugs and thinks for himself and his guild (Echo) .
hahahaha so people who play 10s are gonna be even lower now, are they slow??
Doing 8 high keys in a row with no loot. Stuff like that is why I don't do mythics anymore. I'd rather craft all my gear than waste my time for no reward
mythvault weekly key still being a 10 is still a huge loss. but well, at least it looks slightly more playable than s1 now.
Are 10s even gonna be hard with this change? Peril being removed from 10s make them laughable
No peril and with the 7% increased instead of 10 you’re looking at 27% reduced health and damage compared to now. I would take the w as it obviously is and not complain more.
@@leonmonica it´s still fort+tyran. In DF weekly keys were chill, perfect for after a long workday to relax or just carry some not so m+ proficient guildies along. Everyone loved S3 for that, and you can always push higher if you lack a challenge in m+, so there´s no reason not to make the "forced" gearing part too taxing.
@@Eulrich 10s are a great point to start introducing myth track gear. No offense if your struggling on weekly 10s (where you can literally pick what dungs you want to do), then should you be earning myth track? I’m not even trying to sound elite but cmon, you can’t spoon feed myth track gear or it loses its value. 10s offer portals and myth track gear, it needs to have a challenge and the current state of 10s is the easiest it should ever be. If anything they should add a reroll on the vault so when you get offered myth track it’s better in that sense. But even in S1 TWW myth track gear wasn’t hard for the ppl who could actually use it and progress higher with it. Those who struggled to get and squeezed it were honestly part of the pugging problem. They were way too geared for their respective skill level.
@@leonmonica peril is like whatever.. 10 is still a same 10
Hey why don’t we get rid of the timer and have blizzard hold our hands through each key so we can all get title together!
Too little way too late.
Still no mytic track gear reward for completion is wild
Tbf you don't deserve myth track rewards for completing a 10. Maybe a 14
@@tacobowl1342 yea thats what i meant, should be rewarded after lets say 12's
The key floor thing seems great, Until you realize that title will not be possible in pugs.
no peril changes, no go. This the root of the problems.
-9th
TRASH should NOT be more difficult then BOSS fights!!!!
8th
first
The game is dead
Always has been