The smoke is probably residue oil/cleaner burning off. The shake is not normal - the engine should run smoothly with not a whisper of a shake - sounds and looks like one spark plug not firing. The tappet noise is probably a lack of oil and probably the car needs to go for a run. Well done Lee - I was as nervous as you as you were firing it up!
They can be 180º out on this engine and not valve crash. But the cams are slightly less and slightly more than 180º due to the phasing angle on the dowels. I accidentally had the exhaust cam exactly 180º out on mine after a HG job (due to them having timing marks on either side of the cam gears). Sounded like a vacuum cleaner and had zero compression. Soon as I'd retimed, it ran perfect. Still very high compression.
In the process of doing a head gasket replacement on my TF which was caused by the PRT jamming shut and causing the engine to over heat(lesson being replace them every so many years). Anyway after watching this I checked how I had positioned the camshaft dowel in the sprocket and realized the inlet was the wrong way round. So thanks as I may have dodged a bullet. Getting the cam belt back on was a complete mare.
those lifters are very tappy. If there is such a word. You are going to have to pull plug leads. Try 2 and 4 first. You can take the screws out of the coil paks and the engine will still run. I don't know if you can get the upper engine mount out the top. I have never had to do that. If you are going to replace the mount,do both. And use the poly bushes that are available. They help stablise the engine and make gear changes a little easier.
Hi from NZ just put TF camshafts in my MGF, still waiting on a belt to arrive but will check that I have it the cam gears around the correct way; I have done the belt 2 times before but just forgot to check. cheers
K series are normally quite. I have had several and a 135 sounded like that. On that one the head gasket went under a previous owner and I think if this creates an overheat then the head needs an overhaul as its noisey due to valve guides and tolerances and oil consumption is also high. On the ones with the original gaskets the engine is very quiet so you hardly know its running and oil consumption is approx 12k to a litre. A lot of people talk about HG's but a regular service and coolant change ensures long life, see the Lotus specialist sites and they will confirm that the engines don't really have a gasket blowing issue. I noticed that the car creaks when going up and down on the jack. Whilst this can be the track control arms in the main changing the shock absorber will overcome the problem as its to do with a shaft seal running dry.
Mike Long Sounds like dry hydraulic tappet noise. The engine has not run for a long time and the oil has probably run out of the tappets so are running dry and will take some time to refill. Just give it an hour of running and it should return to normal as the oil level returns to it's operating level. Slight misfire could be due to old fuel in in the tank, give it time. Just started my engine after 5 years of being idle with half a tank of old fuel. started after only a minute of cranking but suffered both of these problems. Must put some clean fuel in it. Very informative series, keep it up.
Thought it would be timing Lee, had similar issues with cars in the past, they try and fire initially but then nothing! I've just bought myself a sister car to this same colour and engine but slightly older (52 plate). It's got 45,000 miles, one owner from new, last MOT'd in 2013 and has been dry stored since early 2014. Got the leather interior and front fog lights listed on the original invoice (which I have). Thankfully I live less than 15 minutes from Rimmer Bros and already go there a lot for the 1969 MG Midget we have 😂. Tackling timing belt (and water pump), full major service, metal brake pipe replacement, tyres (dry rot!), possible new steering rack or upper front arm bushing, and a few cosmetic bits before it's MOT either end of this month or end of next depending on how it goes and time I've got. Very tempted to try and film some of it! P.S. As for the engine sound and shaking - mine does the exact same thing currently. I've never owned a K-Series powered car before but thought it might be down to stale fuel - I put 1/4 of a tank fo 98 Octane in and the more it runs the better it seems to get. But obviously not running it too much before I've sorted the cambelt (and MOT!)
I’ve got a complete engine and rear subframe coming out of my car as I’m putting a full rebuilt engine and frame in this week if you need a decent head or any bits
Good to see you have it running now Lee, did suggest it could be the location on dowel issue. As regards the rough running,running on only three cylinders I'd say as I had the same problem and found that it just one of the ht leads not pushed home fully so hopefully yours could be similar. Anyway a great video again. Dont forget to keep an eye on the oil and also the coolant level. Has yours got an alarm for low coolant? Think your year may have. Mine is a 2002 model tf so had to fit one, only £25 off Ebay and easy to fit. I'm really enjoying driving mine around the minor roads in West Sussex although now thinking about spraying the bonnet as a few minor pin dents and difficult to blend in on metallic paint. Hay ho, all part of the ownership of these fun little cars. Look forward to seeing your next report👍.
As long as phase 3 isn't selling or giving away the MG, I am good with this channel. PS. no it is not typical Rover and it should run smoothly. PPS: if in doubt about timing and you don't want to open the engine, remove the plugs and turn the engine by hand. That way any resistance is wrong (i.e. valve/piston interaction), as there is no compression to fight with. It will at least give prevent expensive costs due to bad timing/timing out of sync
Hi Lee, I'm so glad for you that you found the issue and I'm hoping with fingers crossed that you haven't had a valve crash. Our beloved k series engines can be noisy from cold due to a few things like steel cylinder liners in an aluminium block, hydraulic tappets and also the charcoal purge canister. The way I check to see if all cylinders are firing OK is to use one of those handheld laser thermometers on the exhaust manifold. Dead giveaway which cylinder isn't preforming. Also in my tool box I have a cheap endoscope camera that connects to my phone so handy for all sorts of diagnostics and inspection. Or plug in your laptop if you have a mems3 ecu. Good luck Lee
Good job getting it diagnosed and getting it running Lee. Some engines run like that shaky and noisy and others are silky smooth. I would suggest getting it warm and running it down the road and see what it's like after. Couple things I noticed : timing belt cover behind crank pully, I would strongly recommend getting one fitted and the cam gear bolts should be done up to 65nm.
I am happy for you that my tip to check the position of the camshafts was successful. The rattle of the hydraulic valve lifters is norma (lafter assembling the engine) at the beginning and the engine becomes quieter over time. Greetins from Germany!
Great to see you get it going... Mine is the same year as yours but a low mileage example and the 135 but sounds very sweet on tick-over... Looking forward to seeing you get the tick over sorted and out on the road...
I knew it would be a timing issue, just not the one I mentioned in the last video comment. This issue always confused me until I realised the cams were exactly the same, and the dowels are just to phase the cams correctly. Cheaper to manufacture the same cams twice but have them interchangable using dowels. Since it was out of time, it may be a valve crash issue. It doesn't sound right as it is. It can be 180º out of phase and be fine after, but anything more or less and you risk valve crash. Notice the dowels are slightly off 180º. Hoping it's just that the tappets need filling fully with oil, as it hasn't been run for a long time. I'd do an IACV reset too. Turn key to position 2 --> wait 10 seconds --> press accelerator full in and full out 5 times --> turn key fully off for 10 seconds --> now start engine.
@@wheatleysworkshop Hopefully it's just the tappets that need filing fully. I've had both before: severe misfire (3 cylinders only firing) and also zero compression until the next day when it started first time lol. Anyway, good luck with it. 🍀🤞
These videos are very relevant for me, my “new” TF is being dropped off at a mechanic friend’s unit tomorrow :) not much work to do, but you never know as it hasn’t been started for 3 years :p keep up the excellent quality, and good luck!
Great work, once its started this improves morale no end! Ive just done an engine swap on a mk3 mr2 which is mid-engined, always a pain to do stuff on! I got it started after the bank holiday, fortunately first try. Keep up the good work.
I suggest driving it for a hour every day for two weeks. I recently did the first oil change on a car I got in February, and it seem to take two weeks daily driving for the ECU to re-adjust things. Then it gives you a much more noticeable push. The exhaust sound better too. Best sound is made by labouring it just a little, rather than high revving it. Best time this happened was in Windsor. Just passing a cyclist though a bridge under the station. Just in front of me a Range Rover appeared around the corner. So I put my foot down. The exhaust made a "Borp Borp" sound, echoing in the bridge. Clearing cyclist, I then nipped back in. Second later I heard "Whoa!" from the cyclist. Getting the appreciation of others is always a bonus.
Great to see the TF finally going Lee! Look forward to what you do next with the car and you mentioned the next phases, ‘great driving roads’. I’ve always struggled to think of where to take my TF for a real stand out drive, although the car clubs I’m in do help with that. Hope you can start to enjoy the car soon! 👍
Hii Lee, it’s amazing that you got it running again! I had the exact same problem with my engine after i replaced headgasket etc. The smoke is no problem and the engine that is shaking is also no problem, the enige just needs to get a good drive and then it should be running a lot better. Keep up the great video’s!
Great job! I got some smoke too from burnt oil when i changed the valve seals. The different thing is that i really thought the engine was on fire because i did not have any experience with oil on hot engine parts :).
Great timing Lee 😀 I also got some smoke from oil on the exhaust, thought my MG was on fire and run for a fire distinguisher, when I came back the smoke was gone 😂 That ticking sound .... hmmm that’s not normal. Thanks for this video 🇳🇱
Great stuff! To be fair Lee that's such an easy mistake to make, its not the best design for cam location I've seen, good detective work. Just a note, my cams were loud after standing for some time, they got much better after it warmed up. The engine on my car doesn't shake on tick over, might be a little miss there. Very informative, I wasn't aware of the cam being able to locate in that way.
Good to see it started. Definitely sounds like it’s misfiring especially as the engines shaking like mad, sounds a bit tappety as well but shouldn’t be hard to fix 👌🏻
For the engine shake I would check the bottom engine steady that attaches to the sump, any leaking oil tends to collect on the rubber bush making it soft. I would say that engine noise is typical of a k-series that hasn’t been run in a long time and an Italian tune up when on the road will help. They do have tappet noise on startup, I use Castrol Magnatec 10w40, this does seem to help.
I had a similar experience with my MGF vvc after changing the head gasket. slightly uneven running with engine shake. Turned out the timing belt was one tooth out which is easy to do with these.
You are right to be suspicious Lee, shouldn’t sound or vibrate like that but at least there’s no metallic clashing noises ! So you can’t be far out. Hard to tell remotely but I think your guess of a misfire sounds right, mine runs smoothe as so that vibration isn’t right in case that helps.
It does sound like a noisy hydraulic tappet. Might come good after running for sometime to get the oil all the way through the system as others have said. I'll still watch even though I didn't win the giveaway :-)
A bit of a misfire. Your tappets are also making a noise. Run at 3K rpm for a minute or so when hot to get the hydraulic lifters primed. The ticking noise should go away then.
The smoke is probably residue oil/cleaner burning off. The shake is not normal - the engine should run smoothly with not a whisper of a shake - sounds and looks like one spark plug not firing. The tappet noise is probably a lack of oil and probably the car needs to go for a run. Well done Lee - I was as nervous as you as you were firing it up!
If both cams are 180’ out I’m surprised the valves didn’t hit the pistons in the test rotation of the engine
They can be 180º out on this engine and not valve crash. But the cams are slightly less and slightly more than 180º due to the phasing angle on the dowels. I accidentally had the exhaust cam exactly 180º out on mine after a HG job (due to them having timing marks on either side of the cam gears). Sounded like a vacuum cleaner and had zero compression. Soon as I'd retimed, it ran perfect. Still very high compression.
In the process of doing a head gasket replacement on my TF which was caused by the PRT jamming shut and causing the engine to over heat(lesson being replace them every so many years). Anyway after watching this I checked how I had positioned the camshaft dowel in the sprocket and realized the inlet was the wrong way round. So thanks as I may have dodged a bullet. Getting the cam belt back on was a complete mare.
Definitely only firing on 3 cylinders. Also the ticking noise is the hydraulic tappets not quite full yet. The ticking should disappear eventually.
those lifters are very tappy. If there is such a word. You are going to have to pull plug leads. Try 2 and 4 first. You can take the screws out of the coil paks and the engine will still run. I don't know if you can get the upper engine mount out the top. I have never had to do that. If you are going to replace the mount,do both. And use the poly bushes that are available. They help stablise the engine and make gear changes a little easier.
Hi from NZ just put TF camshafts in my MGF, still waiting on a belt to arrive but will check that I have it the cam gears around the correct way; I have done the belt 2 times before but just forgot to check. cheers
K series are normally quite. I have had several and a 135 sounded like that. On that one the head gasket went under a previous owner and I think if this creates an overheat then the head needs an overhaul as its noisey due to valve guides and tolerances and oil consumption is also high. On the ones with the original gaskets the engine is very quiet so you hardly know its running and oil consumption is approx 12k to a litre. A lot of people talk about HG's but a regular service and coolant change ensures long life, see the Lotus specialist sites and they will confirm that the engines don't really have a gasket blowing issue. I noticed that the car creaks when going up and down on the jack. Whilst this can be the track control arms in the main changing the shock absorber will overcome the problem as its to do with a shaft seal running dry.
Mike Long
Sounds like dry hydraulic tappet noise.
The engine has not run for a long time and the oil has probably run out of the tappets so are running dry and will take some time to refill. Just give it an hour of running and it should return to normal as the oil level returns to it's operating level.
Slight misfire could be due to old fuel in in the tank, give it time.
Just started my engine after 5 years of being idle with half a tank of old fuel. started after only a minute of cranking but suffered both of these problems. Must put some clean fuel in it.
Very informative series, keep it up.
Thought it would be timing Lee, had similar issues with cars in the past, they try and fire initially but then nothing! I've just bought myself a sister car to this same colour and engine but slightly older (52 plate). It's got 45,000 miles, one owner from new, last MOT'd in 2013 and has been dry stored since early 2014. Got the leather interior and front fog lights listed on the original invoice (which I have). Thankfully I live less than 15 minutes from Rimmer Bros and already go there a lot for the 1969 MG Midget we have 😂.
Tackling timing belt (and water pump), full major service, metal brake pipe replacement, tyres (dry rot!), possible new steering rack or upper front arm bushing, and a few cosmetic bits before it's MOT either end of this month or end of next depending on how it goes and time I've got.
Very tempted to try and film some of it!
P.S. As for the engine sound and shaking - mine does the exact same thing currently. I've never owned a K-Series powered car before but thought it might be down to stale fuel - I put 1/4 of a tank fo 98 Octane in and the more it runs the better it seems to get. But obviously not running it too much before I've sorted the cambelt (and MOT!)
Once timing is done turn it over at least twice by hand. Especially for interference engines.
I’ve got a complete engine and rear subframe coming out of my car as I’m putting a full rebuilt engine and frame in this week if you need a decent head or any bits
The sound of those lifters running dry always freaks out people :D
Good to see you have it running now Lee, did suggest it could be the location on dowel issue. As regards the rough running,running on only three cylinders I'd say as I had the same problem and found that it just one of the ht leads not pushed home fully so hopefully yours could be similar. Anyway a great video again. Dont forget to keep an eye on the oil and also the coolant level. Has yours got an alarm for low coolant? Think your year may have. Mine is a 2002 model tf so had to fit one, only £25 off Ebay and easy to fit. I'm really enjoying driving mine around the minor roads in West Sussex although now thinking about spraying the bonnet as a few minor pin dents and difficult to blend in on metallic paint. Hay ho, all part of the ownership of these fun little cars. Look forward to seeing your next report👍.
As long as phase 3 isn't selling or giving away the MG, I am good with this channel.
PS. no it is not typical Rover and it should run smoothly.
PPS: if in doubt about timing and you don't want to open the engine, remove the plugs and turn the engine by hand. That way any resistance is wrong (i.e. valve/piston interaction), as there is no compression to fight with. It will at least give prevent expensive costs due to bad timing/timing out of sync
Definitely not! Lol..and great advice to check interference!
Hi Lee, I'm so glad for you that you found the issue and I'm hoping with fingers crossed that you haven't had a valve crash.
Our beloved k series engines can be noisy from cold due to a few things like steel cylinder liners in an aluminium block, hydraulic tappets and also the charcoal purge canister.
The way I check to see if all cylinders are firing OK is to use one of those handheld laser thermometers on the exhaust manifold. Dead giveaway which cylinder isn't preforming.
Also in my tool box I have a cheap endoscope camera that connects to my phone so handy for all sorts of diagnostics and inspection. Or plug in your laptop if you have a mems3 ecu. Good luck Lee
Good job getting it diagnosed and getting it running Lee.
Some engines run like that shaky and noisy and others are silky smooth. I would suggest getting it warm and running it down the road and see what it's like after.
Couple things I noticed : timing belt cover behind crank pully, I would strongly recommend getting one fitted and the cam gear bolts should be done up to 65nm.
I am happy for you that my tip to check the position of the camshafts was successful.
The rattle of the hydraulic valve lifters is norma (lafter assembling the engine) at the beginning and the engine becomes quieter over time. Greetins from Germany!
Well done Lee. Had a 160TF a few back that kept me awake at night by not starting so know yourpain
Lee, that is brilliant to see - the look on your face said it all. Well done on working out the problem.
Great to see you get it going... Mine is the same year as yours but a low mileage example and the 135 but sounds very sweet on tick-over... Looking forward to seeing you get the tick over sorted and out on the road...
I knew it would be a timing issue, just not the one I mentioned in the last video comment. This issue always confused me until I realised the cams were exactly the same, and the dowels are just to phase the cams correctly. Cheaper to manufacture the same cams twice but have them interchangable using dowels.
Since it was out of time, it may be a valve crash issue. It doesn't sound right as it is. It can be 180º out of phase and be fine after, but anything more or less and you risk valve crash. Notice the dowels are slightly off 180º. Hoping it's just that the tappets need filling fully with oil, as it hasn't been run for a long time.
I'd do an IACV reset too. Turn key to position 2 --> wait 10 seconds --> press accelerator full in and full out 5 times --> turn key fully off for 10 seconds --> now start engine.
Cheers Jim, that's really useful! I'm suspecting a bent valve but fingers crossed! 🤞
@@wheatleysworkshop
Hopefully it's just the tappets that need filing fully. I've had both before: severe misfire (3 cylinders only firing) and also zero compression until the next day when it started first time lol. Anyway, good luck with it. 🍀🤞
Another educational video 😃 learning lots of useful info about engines in general, not just the TF! Looking forward to seeing it on the road.
These videos are very relevant for me, my “new” TF is being dropped off at a mechanic friend’s unit tomorrow :) not much work to do, but you never know as it hasn’t been started for 3 years :p keep up the excellent quality, and good luck!
Great work, once its started this improves morale no end! Ive just done an engine swap on a mk3 mr2 which is mid-engined, always a pain to do stuff on! I got it started after the bank holiday, fortunately first try.
Keep up the good work.
Well done! I'd give it a drive around then see how it sounds. :) Looking forward to the next one!
I suggest driving it for a hour every day for two weeks. I recently did the first oil change on a car I got in February, and it seem to take two weeks daily driving for the ECU to re-adjust things. Then it gives you a much more noticeable push. The exhaust sound better too. Best sound is made by labouring it just a little, rather than high revving it. Best time this happened was in Windsor. Just passing a cyclist though a bridge under the station. Just in front of me a Range Rover appeared around the corner. So I put my foot down. The exhaust made a "Borp Borp" sound, echoing in the bridge. Clearing cyclist, I then nipped back in. Second later I heard "Whoa!" from the cyclist. Getting the appreciation of others is always a bonus.
Can't wait till thats me!! Lol
Great to see the TF finally going Lee! Look forward to what you do next with the car and you mentioned the next phases, ‘great driving roads’. I’ve always struggled to think of where to take my TF for a real stand out drive, although the car clubs I’m in do help with that. Hope you can start to enjoy the car soon! 👍
Hii Lee, it’s amazing that you got it running again! I had the exact same problem with my engine after i replaced headgasket etc. The smoke is no problem and the engine that is shaking is also no problem, the enige just needs to get a good drive and then it should be running a lot better. Keep up the great video’s!
Great job! I got some smoke too from burnt oil when i changed the valve seals. The different thing is that i really thought the engine was on fire because i did not have any experience with oil on hot engine parts :).
Awesome video as usual, congratulations on finally hearing the engine run!!! Excited for the next episode.
Great timing Lee 😀 I also got some smoke from oil on the exhaust, thought my MG was on fire and run for a fire distinguisher, when I came back the smoke was gone 😂
That ticking sound .... hmmm that’s not normal. Thanks for this video 🇳🇱
hopefully not to long a list for the MOT, looking forward to seeing you on the roads this summertime.
Great stuff! To be fair Lee that's such an easy mistake to make, its not the best design for cam location I've seen, good detective work. Just a note, my cams were loud after standing for some time, they got much better after it warmed up. The engine on my car doesn't shake on tick over, might be a little miss there. Very informative, I wasn't aware of the cam being able to locate in that way.
Awesome although it sounds horrendous but great to see your joy at it starting - well done and great info yet again
Good to see it started. Definitely sounds like it’s misfiring especially as the engines shaking like mad, sounds a bit tappety as well but shouldn’t be hard to fix 👌🏻
👍🏻😎 you did it, very nice to see its running !!, i,m learning something from each video thx !!
Brilliant to see it start. Does sound rough, maybe a coil. I have a 95 mgf and is quite smooth. Good luck with the mot 👍
For the engine shake I would check the bottom engine steady that attaches to the sump, any leaking oil tends to collect on the rubber bush making it soft.
I would say that engine noise is typical of a k-series that hasn’t been run in a long time and an Italian tune up when on the road will help. They do have tappet noise on startup, I use Castrol Magnatec 10w40, this does seem to help.
Cheers Chris, great advice 👍
Wooooo it started
Great Lee happy you got her going , sounds a bit rough but your getting there mate 👍
"Does that sound normal?"....sure...for a diesel.......in london.....coloured black with a kinda TAXI logo motif lol
Nice one Lee glad it’s running recon that wobble and the sound is not quite right hope you get to the bottom of the problem 😀
I had a similar experience with my MGF vvc after changing the head gasket. slightly uneven running with engine shake. Turned out the timing belt was one tooth out which is easy to do with these.
Nearly there Lee - great work. Shaking may simply be due to a worn engine mount.
I think you're on to something there as there's loads of play in it!!
Hi Lee, my MGTF sounds the same on start up but when it heats up it is fine.
Very excited for phase 3 sounds good im thinking turbo ;)
I'm glad its going.... now to get though the emissions !!!
🤣🤣😖😖
You are right to be suspicious Lee, shouldn’t sound or vibrate like that but at least there’s no metallic clashing noises ! So you can’t be far out. Hard to tell remotely but I think your guess of a misfire sounds right, mine runs smoothe as so that vibration isn’t right in case that helps.
Happy you got it started lee great video
Yeah well done Lee. Got it going. To me the hydraulic lifters sound bad. Maybe worth looking at.
P.s forgot to add. You are a natural for this so please keep the focus on keeping us followers focused. Good job. 👍
Well done - first kick - in the end.
Chapeaux
Well done Lee, great video 👍
It does sound like a noisy hydraulic tappet. Might come good after running for sometime to get the oil all the way through the system as others have said. I'll still watch even though I didn't win the giveaway :-)
If you take one plug lead off it'll sound close to a Subaru ....
well-done Lee another great video, so pleased it started. Is the cat a clue to the next give away .
🤣
Don't look at the title typo. I said DON'T LOOK
Nice one 👍 congrats
Defo miss fire, I had this issue when changing coil packs 😂
A bit of a misfire. Your tappets are also making a noise. Run at 3K rpm for a minute or so when hot to get the hydraulic lifters primed. The ticking noise should go away then.
Great stuff as usual 👍
What’s Phase 3??? :)
Congrats on getting it started
Top
Hi Lee, how do you disable the immobiliser?
Sounds like it had a sticky lifter to me
I just realized why you look so familiar !!!!!!!! you're Dominic Coopers twin
Your lucky the valves didnt hit the piston.
pole position!!