ASUS' marketing team is clearly in isolated damage control mode and isn't talking to the engineering team. So much of the responses are canned double speak.
Hardware Unboxed: The product sucks and could be improved Asus: Reeeeeeeeee Hardware Unboxed: *dremmels the chassis* Asus: *sub to get the next episode on Hardware Unboxed and find out how Asus responds*
It was nice of them to “optimize for real world scenarios” by installing a poor screen. For content creators give them poor color performance. For gamers give them a panel with bad motion blur. At least they have that Mil-Spec since that is my number one concern. Wait, if it was wouldn’t I buy an LG Gram or a Dell Latitude 14 Rugged Extreme?
@@zerosystem8743 It's just marketing crap because the TUF name was used on stuff like the old Sabertooth boards, which were actually built really well. These days, the TUF brand is reduced to just one designed for entry-level "gaming" gear and while there are some decent options, there are also plenty of mediocre junk with "military spec engineering" marketing plastered all over.
D13H4RD2L1V3 Yep, just like how things are labeled as “Tactical”. It’s like look guys; tactical knives, tactical sunglasses, tactical bacon, and tactical baby gear.
Well done - the new A15 now has stock air-intake vents like the ones you manually cut. Thank you for helping them create a better budget product for the ppl to enjoy.
Hope they've made some more improvements since then. (I remember when the Gateway FX laptops (like the P-171X FX) came out and they had Serious heat problems. Was a real pain in the ass. Have always worried about heating issues since then (...and SSD drives are Very susceptible to heat).
Spending $2000 of their own money just to see, if the manufacturer’s claims are “justified”. Mad respect for you guys, sure makes me glad I’m subscribed and watching their videos constantly.
Same... but he didn't lose $2000.00. He still has a laptop that he can use or sell... and it's only the one part that's replaceable. I'm sure he's gonna have warranty problems with it... but he don't seem like the kind of guy that sends his computers to be fixed for him.... and I think (and hope) he made enough money off the video to justify it all.
Remember when Asus released a 5700XT with loose screws, and then failed to take responsibility, blaming AMD instead? The response here makes it sound like their PR department still haven't learned anything.
TBH I understood this since 2017 when Ryzen line ups being introduced for the first time. Never buy any AMD or Radeon related products if it is assembled by Asus. It's been 3 years and my stereotype of Asus is still true. Guess Asus is biased to Intel when making perfect Hardware solution. Asus only want money so they just making products that people are looking for, with half assed quality. While other brands never being Biased towards Intel or AMD in terms of quality.
@@Elc22 no, Asus designed ALL 5000 series Radeon Cards wrong 5500, 5600, 5700 non-XT and XT. Wrong Voltage and Wattage value and controller, Wrong amount of electrical components on the Card's PCB design (some are too thick or too thin) so the amount of Electricity flowing through the Card is wrong straight from the Factory and cannot be solved by Bios flash or Bios update
So rarely do you find people who care about their integrity more than anything else. I often get the impression that people who do reviews try to please everyone and lose their credibility. Thank you!
Tim: "Why is the SSD install in the left slot instead of the right slot?" *Asus has left the chat* They'll come back stronger. These videos make them better. Good job as always.
Agreed. Asus will be better in the next year. Across the board they have made some very poor thermal decisions lately. Will be good to see their products really improve as a result of these guys picking their choices apart.
I recognize through the time that ANY Asus notebook sucks at airflow. Either it just sucks from the beginning, or vaccum in the cooling tubes will dissapear after about 2 years
it seems that this was a manufacturing mishap as it seems the GTX 1650 version of the laptop does not have the problematic heatsink beside it... It feels like they made the laptop with the 1650 in mind and then just modified it to the 1660 for those who wanted the little bit of extra power.... as a result the design doesn't handle the extra thermal load all that well. Obviously, ASUS is not gonna tell that because: 1. They're trying to sell a product here. 2. Theyre not going to reveal business practices which are confidencial.
Asus engineers: No! You can't simply cut holes into a laptop and expect better thermals it's a very complex design process that takes the mutual benefit of all laptop components at the same time even the aco..... Hardware Unboxed: haha Dremel goes brrrr
some just don't take criticism very well... they want gold medals even if the products are shite (Intel and Nvidia are the same way) if you don't do good reviews they dump you instead of fixing the issues
Asus just lying on "the first laptop with new AMD CPU" so they can said like "our stuffs are cheap and strong so those mistakes can be passed" while literally they can just keep the old FX505 version with 3 exhaust sinks and 5 heat pipes :V
Here's a testimony, bought a ASUS FX505DU laptop recently. AMD Ryzen 7 3750H (which isn't upgradable, because they were lazy to allow this option, to save a buck and make my life miserable) and Nvidia 1660 Ti. The laptop spins its double fans like little jet engines when running any sort of a modern game and cannot be held on the desk any longer. That's how good their "specific" designs are. Never getting Asus again, needless to say. :) EDIT: Wasn't trying to rag on them, or troll anyone: it's the simple truth, meh.
CPUs are designed to throttle and they don't get damaged even when played at high temperatures for long. But other components will be damaged if overheated
@@shrujanamsyama9940 CPU's are designed to thermal throttle for the same reason cars have a rev-limiter: because if you go any higher, you'll break something. Possibly hitting the limiter from time to time when you're working it hard is what it's designed for. Running the machine bouncing off the limiter non-stop is not what it's designed for. Besides, if you're thermal throttled, the CPU is underclocking. You may as well have just put in a smaller CPU at that point. because a 2.6ghz cpu running at 2.6 is better than a 2.9ghz cpu that's thermal throttled back to 2.3! This FAQ from Intel: www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005597/processors.html "The goal for a system builder or a do-it-yourself (DIY) end user is to design a platform configuration that keeps the processor under the Tjunction max threshold during heavy workloads to maximize performance of the system"
I remember reading somewhere that the reason why the temps are so high up is due to some feature amd added to their laptops, which can be switched off. It was called virtual super sampling to something. The individual said it went down from 100+c to below 80. I can’t verify the claims, but if that is true, then should I buy this laptop? Also yeah, you’re right, i rather have a laptop that functions normally at 2.6ghz instead of one with a cpu that can potentially go up to 2.9ghz, but is only at 2.3ghz because its power has been reduced due to too much heat.
@@foxgaming76yt24 sadly, because specs and dimensions are all people care about, it's getting harder and harder to find one that DOESNT do this... Best way around it is to get a lower wattage CPU. If a laptop has R7 and R5 options, chances are the R5 one is rocking the same cooling solution as was used on the R7 model... Just have to see if you can fine one with the ram, SSD and GPU spec you want with the lower processor
@@rahuldogra Way less than that lol. Trust me if it was that much they would be justified in not using them! (multiply by number of that model made. There's your answer why, heh)
idk what is going on @ASUS. They continue to destroy their premium brand reputation by releasing such garbage products and then they wonder why fewer people buy their products
All right, so the modification made the VRM hotter. But it also made the CPU run faster by drawing more power. Delivering more power to the CPU should result in hotter VRM. So what happens if you lock the CPU frequency and power delivery to the same watts? That should equalize VRM power consumption and let you compare VRM temperature more directly to see what the difference from the design alone is in isolation.
Depends on the quality and efficiency of the VRMs used. Lower would mean more heat is generated while higher means less. Since this is the TUF line, it would naturally have cheaper VRMs than a ROG laptop. While CPU power consumption does play a key role, the power config set is only about 45w which is average and there are many other devices that handle a 45w chip better, be it Intel or AMD.
after dealing with my boss' macbook 16" with thermal issues, this is the same thing all over again. With an aluminum base and some thermal pads, you could cool this laptop down ALOT. I mean really... who games on their lap?
My take away from this. Asus where right, their design was helping to cool the other components. However this needed to be done because of the bad design of the overall cooling solution.
Well its a bit more nuanced than that... they probably made any 'early on' decision to not bother with heatsink to include the cpu vrm. Due to it being for a lower tdp more effecient AMD 7nm cpu.... Then found out at a later time that it was inadequate. And could not change the heatsink assembly by that point because it was too late during mfr. At least not without raising the costs for the product. Which the product manager would have been under some pressure to keep costs under control. So then the PM turns to the engineers and says 'find some other way to solve this'. And it comes at the bigger picture cost 'not on the books', for damaging the company's reputation and image. So this whole thing is institutionalized into their product development and management / corporate culture. Just dont buy ASUS, they - should not be rewarded for this kinds of behaviour. Your hard earned money should go to other companies who give more honest responses. And not repeat canned responses going through the legal dept.
ASUS made a balanced laptop, that does one thing, it makes the balance sheet better. They could've added cooling for the VRM's but that costs more money, they could've used a better screen but that costs money.
@@imo098765 Loosing sales because of poor reviews also costs money. Hopefully companies start to learn that good reviews from trusted reviewers matter a lot.
@@imo098765 I would be willing to pay 100 $ more for better thermals... and copper is not that expansive. It is just a poor design. I wanted to buy A15, but I decided on another laptop. And I am definitely not the only one. The decided to cheapen out and are losing money because of it.
More fun, check the heat that is forced onto the LCD panel from the M16(2022) version. They have the exhaust vents directly forcing hot exhaust onto the bottom of the LCD panel. Yes, it does substantially heat up the panel during gameplay.
I use an Asus Zenbook Pro that doesn’t even have visible intake vents on underside. With a i7 7700HQ and a GTX 1050 it just takes time before it thermal throttles without using it...
Thanks for the thorough review. I am a loyal ASUS customer based on owning several of their laptops. The first was a G73 followed by a G74. I gave the G73 away but it is still going strong and running 24/7 in a monitoring role,. My G74 has been upgraded with an SSD and is a fabulous matching for my astronomy needs. Longevity is important to me and I have never need to push my systems to the limit. I am considering upgrading to one of the FX505 Tuf gaming laptops as a travelling astronomy machine. Again, I will probably never run games on it but just wanted the extra ruggedness for the travel. What ASUS claim makes sense to me and I can see your points also. For best performance the extra holes seem to help. For longevity, ASUS did what they believe was needed. For the price I think I will get this new machine anyway and thanks again for such a detailed and honest review,.
My son has that computer FX505 with GTX1650 and Ryzen 5 3550H. He is very happy with and the performance of it seems about identical to my other son's Asus Strix Rog with about similar specs. Its a fine machine. I do not know how much of the ruggedness claim Asus makes with the TUF series is actually valid. These machines are no Panasonic Toughbooks. They seem to be built well, and the thicker plastic must protect them a bit, but they are such expensive machines anyhow that the YT reviewers will not subject them and their counterparts to "lets drop from 50 cm and again at 1m" abuse to see what the real differences are. And what are the real dangers anyhow, is it drops or is it water from condensation or rain or is it sand or dust. That changes from person to person, but I from what I see these machines really have no protection against the dangers beyond small bumps.
I still have a G74Sx that is still running after 9 odd years.. But I was after an upgrade and so bought the ASUS TUF FX505DV the Ryzen 7 with the 2060 RTX and I'm very happy with it and its max temps in turbo mode stay around 82 degree and in silent mode around the low 40s which is acceptable to me.. I love it
@@mateuszpilski5524 It's pretty loud I'll admit that. Very loud even.. much louder than the G74SX, I usually have the game volume up high enough or headphones in so it doesn't bother me much, infact you get use to the noise and tune out from it - its only noisey when running a modern game, in Windows and office its dead silent with no fan spin at all.
@@mrbrad4637 thanks for that info , i assumed that this was the case , I think for high performance modern gaming , you will just need a PC, at the end of the day low budget laptops are just laptops on steroids , and the high end are spaceships 🤣 l don't want to nudge you too much more , but do you use it for video and photo editing by any chance? If so , what's the noise like when using that kind of software...
This is because the purpose of the right m2 slot is to butcher the battery capacity. You can't have battery life in the budget products. Also, cooling and display. There is ROG series for that.
Maybe you can check what happens after the whole honeycomb structure is cut out? And my friend reduced the temperature by raising the back of the laptop (he made a small stand on the back along the entire length).
No. They won't. Because, if they hire this guy, then the thermals of their budget laptops would increase and more people would prefer these budget laptops and sales of their premium products will decrease
This video is just beyond stupid. He didnt even think about that not everybody puts notebook just on flat table? If you put on uneven surface or in bed or on yourself its immediately choked. It just suck dust and garbage from whatever surface you put it on. Whoa! what an amazing idea! The grills as he cut it would most likely break as soon as someone grabbed the notebook and put finger over it. Not to mention that everybody likes to have fan blowing over them when they have laptop on lap. Or that everybody for sure likes to have glowing hot heatsinks in their lap for hours. I dont know if they ran out of content or what happened here really. The insulation on bottom is on most laptops for a reason and that is to dont burn you from direct contact with 100C chip/heatsink. I hope everybody likes to put hot heatsinks directly on them, just wtf sure there is no direct airfrow from bottom, if there was your leg your skin would be few mm from those heatsinks and you would get burned after few minutes. Good channel really but this was really low. Very similar to Gamers nexus case reviews that almost always end up with conclusion that best peformance is achieved when you remove all dust filters and drill holes to all panels. You just have to clean your pc from dust every week or do it like them, dump the case after few days of testing and never use it again.
Man, it's been tuf for ASUS' TUF GAMING brand. They did a great job with their X570 MOBOs, but between these A15 laptops and the RX 5700 (XT) issues, they really need to get their act together.
their entire z390 line was trash with low vrm phases and they claimed they were fine and purposefully engineered with 8 phases compared to competing brands 12-16 phases for equivalent line boards while asus' boards were priced 25-100 bux more for equivalents
I feel the exact same way, ASUS product stack is very inconsistent with thermal performance. I own an ASUS X570-F Gaming and it is excellent, but I would never have purchased their older Ryzen MBs with the reported terrible VRM performance (such as their B450 MBs). Their x5700 Tuff GPU was also a train wreck. ASUS really needs to take Tim's conclusions and his advice seriously in my opinion, I am highly disappointed with their reply to him.
tuf used to be rog level quality without the flashiness and more focus on cooling and longevity, they were cool products, now its another low end pece of shit
Once upon a time Asus TUF used to be pretty much the same as ROG without all the 14 year old "look at me" RGB like nonsense. Asus has pretty much downgraded their TUF branding to cheapo "value" brand. Itseems however they forgot to downgrade the price as well..
"Engineered with certain things in mind." Someone told the engineers to make a laptop that didn't suck or blow and the engineer thought that meant zero cooling.
Have you ever heard Planned Obsolescence? Almost every product made with a mind that "this product shouldn't last too long, make it worse so they need to buy/repair faster".
Asus R&D: We tested this with games and it ran great! I don't know what Hard-Brown-box is talking about. Asus CEO: What games did you test? Asus R&D: Minesweeper and Solitaire Asus CEO: Awesome...Ship it
Asus engineers are very smart. They remove one exhaust hole, cut out heat pipes and place the vent away from the fan compare to last year and still thinking that they have "improved" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
A bigger hole isn't always better than a smaller holes. You couldn't be more wrong to think that having bigger hole equals to more airflow in volume, it depends on the fan size. A bigger hole equals to larger air volume intake at 1 time (but also spread wider area and lower circulation speed due to less pressure) and smaller hole equals to faster circulation speed ( but spread narrower and higher internal pressure), given the fans' power and size are constant value and also the hole size isn't extremely unreasonable. That being said it doesn't take a Sherlock to guess that they intentionally covering those hole because they probably design the casing for multiple fan sizes and heat sink arrangement for different GPU (with common knowledge that gtx is power efficiency core and rtx isn't) Another mistake is you thought higher end laptop models would generate more profits than lower end laptop models, thus motivate they doing this to sell higher end unit. That couldn't be more wrong cause the profit actually based on the price they set and the actual hardware and design cost, not to mention lower end/budget end models usually sell more units than higher end models. Also i believe they create the hole not directly below the fan is to create a more accesible (not heated) keyboard to enhancing gaming experiences of long hours gaming and also to protect components. Rog gaming laptop is in minority (compared to Lenovo and MSI) which can still run flawlessly while being as powerful after 6 years of usage and that's show the quality of design they had. All in all I think you're not an engineer cause you didn't understand everything had trade off (and obviously you didn't think that through before you made reckless groundless assumption), like adding heat sink and plastic thickness would make the laptop more chunky, heavier, higher price and possible blocking/ bottleneck the air ventilation space inside the casing. As Sherlock Holmes quote, "The distinction is clear. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of twisting theories to suit facts."
In 2010 me and a friend of mine bought Asus Rog g51v's they had the same shitty design for the air flow. I decided to cut a hole on the bottom and my friend decided to keep it stock. His laptop died 3 years before mine. So you are saying...?
Might be they paid for those toughness approvals, failed them as those vents break easily and damage the fan which is a critical failure, so to fix it with minimal effort they just removed those cutouts. Another possibility they have some component(s) that overheat too much and fail completly. Anyways it's quite clear to me that whatever the reason is they don't want to share it.
Last years TUF series had 2 grills near their both fans and one large in the middle...you could practically see the ram from the outside...that intake configuration was so good! They ruined it with this new version.
Choking the new 4000 series amd laptops. The 4800H with moderate cooling puts the best from intel (found in +2000$ laptops) to shame. It would be a direct attack to their higher line-up. This laptop with a better cooling solution (vrm heatsink, better underside...) And a better screen would probably only increase the price by 100$ at most, making it still a lot cheaper than their high-end laptops. It would be a no brainer to buy since the rest of laptop is pretty good, unless you're seeking a very slim and light design (which would perform worse thermal vise).
The MacBook Pro already has fan vents on the side and there are channels to guide the air from there to the fan. The Macbook AIR on the other hand, that's a different story…
you dont mention changing fan profiles or undervolting the CPU... both work in reducing temps... im running the F17 TUF from Asus and its been running great... not had the issues youre having but everyone knows the i7 CPUs run hotter than the equ. Ryzen 5/7/9...
When the best tool for improving performance by an end-user is a dremel tool, the engineers who designed the product have failed. To deny this failure and also deny the results from testing by said end-user baselessly, is to be blatantly lying to save face.
I doubt that the engineers would have made it that way. As a software engineer I love good solution but I'm often held back by time and business constraints. I believe the engineers aren't happy either with the design.
@@user-rm4sy7nl3k Your contention is that ASUS makes shit laptops so that... TH-camrs can make content? Or that ASUS can make content? Or? Your comment makes no sense lol
I cut two half pentagons on top of both my gpu and cpu fans. The increased airflow did lead to higher chassis temps on the front vent, however as it's a plastic case you won't feel anything unless you put your hand on the vent. My idling temps have decreased by 5-9 degrees.
I guess you could cut the holes near the original holes and not directly over the fans, this way giving more breathing room to the fans and cooling the VRMs and SSD.
Well isn't that a perfectly reasonable thing to say? The TUF brand is supposed to give you value for your dollar. If that means tweaking the design to perform to spec under normal load conditions such as games or video rendering, that should be enough. If making the system perform better for benchmarks would mean a $10 higher BOM then the purpose of the brand is lost. ASUS aren't dumb and know that most customers want a product that just works while they do normal use-case things, at a good price. My reasoning of course being that benchmarks generally load the system more than any normal use would do.
Well when u make product. U not just put all in the spec performance. Literally if asus deed make it far better. I think the cost will also increase. What i see from this series is they sacrifice something to target certain price customer and also widen the customer profit from it. For us geek it is not optimal. But for most population which is only normal people, they don't care about it it just the same thing. It work and it do it work well thats all most common people care.
ikr... the premise of TUF brand is a tough products that can last longer than regular ASUS brand. Now, this brand is basicly a cheaper products with worse components than ROG. And the regular ASUS brand is basicly a laptop with good design. Let me make it clear, the looking is good, but the touch feeling is bad
Cutting holes makes air flow directly into the fan instead of traversing throughout the whole of base. This increases temperature for other components located far behind. You cannot throttle other minor electronic components but can throttle CPU or GPU
asus pc parts are way better than their laptop counterparts, either its TUF or ROG, most of them do have a good quality meanwhile their laptops especially their low ends are total disaster
I remember when the asus 5700xt had the "best overall thermal performance" too. I have always uses msi/giga/asus and liked all of them (they've all had thier faults too) but right now its like asus are trying to fuck up as much as asrock and they're trying really hard.
I agree almost in all aspects of the video, but I personally bought this laptop and in any way it feels like a bad purchase and a "must not buy", in fact, I found it really good as a Quality/Price product, since almost all of the other laptops with overall same specs, are like $200 to $500 more expensive. That been said, the video it's really complete and the investigation done is simply amazing!
@@yottaXT this could have been a GOLDEN laptop. As a video editor, the 144hz screen could have gone with a lower Hertz and better color gamut. This simple hack here is amazing.
I'll share some findings which might sort of make sense why manufacturers tend to do what they do. I recently purchased a MSI GE 75 Raider(i7 9750H/RTX 2080 150W) The out of the box thermals weren't very impressive with the i7 constantly crossing 90C and the GPU hovering between 70-80C. So I undervolt the CPU, so there's an instant reduction in temps as expected. Now comes the interesting part, GPU sits between 60s-low 70s now since GPU & CPU shares the cooling solution & thus a reduction in CPU temps reflects along in the GPU as well. Now, I feel that this isn't enough & I decide to repaste the laptop(both CPU & GPU) with TG Kryonaut. Surprise surprise, load & idle CPU and GPU temps drop down considerably, (by ~ 10C). However I notice a slight increase in load GPU temps(~ 2-5C) & a noticeable increase in surface temps(WASD now starts feeling hot to touch), this is somewhat mitigated by manually putting the fan speed to max, but the surface is still warmer than before. This leads me to believe that the better paste resulted in better dissipation & thus consequently the surface temps rise more due to the temperature gradient. This was further validated when I found in a thread on a MSI forum that a guy who claimed to be a MSI technician said that the factory paste that they apply is different for the CPU, GPU & VRM. The GPU paste they use has a supposedly higher conductivity than the CPU one, The improvement I got in temps are in line with this theory, there was a very noticeable improvement in CPU temperatures while a slight increase in GPU temps. While the slight increase in GPU temps can't be attributed to a poorer paste since I used TG Kryonaut which is sort of the category leader in TIMs, I can assume it is because the CPU now dumps more heat & faster onto the cooling solution thus resulting in a higher than before GPU temp, although small. The same reason is why the surface temps now rise. This doesn't affect me since I use an external keyboard, but I suppose MSI was deliberate about their choice of TIM to ensure overall temp stability and this was done(rather counterintuitively so) by using a inferior TIM on the CPU. So I suppose, these manufacturers are well aware of the tradeoffs they make in the final production grade design. Having said that, I agree with you that this is a cheap solution to maintain thermals & that we deserve better, more all round cooling solutions.
@Ben T. I gained thermal headroom so the sustainable boost clock ceilings rose to 3.5Ghz+ at the cost of temps crossing 80C+ , however I am paranoid about temps crossing 70(haha lol Ik I can go more but I prefer not to) so my main intention was not sustaining higher turbos but rather lower load temps. I have all the 6 cores capped at 3.0Ghz, speedshift epp at 128, and PL1 & PL2 both capped at 45W, along with -250mV on core, -125mV on cache and -75mV on IGP. GPU capped at 775mV/1700MHz Combined Load temps on both CPU and GPU stay within 70 for the most part.
@@renmaru4485 nah the 8th and 9th gen Intel CPUs can handle undervolt in a 2:1 ratio. The core voltage offset can go about twice as low as the cache. My 9300h is on -250mV core and -130 cache at 4.1 GHz.
@Ben T. I had a HP and I know what you mean. The laptop was well built but had some issues like the overheating.. HP laptops are known to be a good heat source in winter :D In the other hands I remember friends with more expensive laptops experiencing shut downs during game while my throttling loud HP still working. The next one was an Asus in 2015, with poor cooling and annoying always stressed fan. I ordered an XMG 17/Eulktronics 17 and I think these laptops are the solution for people wanting reliable machines with good AMD CPUs
1:53 "Had the best overall performance and the design specifically Engineered with *Certain THING in mind* " p. s. : Certain THING " *cough* " *INTEL MONEY* " *cough* "
I repaired a a15 for a friend and some other Asus gaming laptops in the last 2 yrs, apparently components love to fuse themselves to the layers of the board. Wonder why
Don't overthink. I have a 10 year old laptop which would work perfectly well nowadays, but because of thermal solution it is sucking air through keyboard together with dust. Thus the keys right in front of the fan are automatically broken because of planned obsolescence. And it is nearly impossible to clean the keyword from inside, I tried, it is not meant to be opened but only replaced as one module.
"Engineered with certain things in mind" - That thing would be market/product segmentation. buy the top end SKU from asus and you won't get throttled. What an amazing idea /s
Thank you! Finally someone in the comments has a business mind and not just a tech brain, shittt. Asus does not want to cannibalize sales from their next tier/level of laptops. So yes, throttle this one and if you want the best of the best, spend more $$
zerocal76 the “best of the best” would sell anyway if it performed on par (it also thermal throttles) with a mediocre design and no ugly logo on the back. You can tap in to one market without tanking you’re other ones that isn’t smart business wise as it leads to angry customers bad publicity and people like me who won’t buy the top end even if it didn’t have issues because of what they’ve done with this one. What kind of a “business” that has the customers best intentions at heart does that?
@@harrisoningham5992 Ok sure the better product would still sell given what you said but it would sell in lower quantities. And if the profit margin is higher on the more expensive product, which is very common in most industries, then less profit for the company. I, like you, don't agree with what they do (call it tactics) but so many companies are doing the sort of thing that was done w the Tuf line that its becoming a standard. Businesses basically won't give the consumer a better product until they absolutely have to or when they are trying to capture more market share.
@@EdiUtomoPutra I'm pretty sure that Apple made the Macbook Air's cooling system is intentionally bad. The fan is literally not cooling anything and the puny heatsink isn't even properly touching the CPU.
Cutting holes makes air flow directly into the fan instead of traversing throughout the whole of base. This increases temperature for other components located far behind. You cannot throttle other minor electronic components but can throttle CPU or GPU
I hope AMD intervene or something, they promised to inspect and work closely on laptop featuring their product to offer a balanced system and this is really not.
If AMD rock the boat too much, then these OEMs will just go "too much effort, back to Intel". No matter which way AMD cuts it, the OEMs did this to them before and they'll do it again!
@@eabelcourt I mean if AMD keeps dominating CPUs they'll have all the power to say fine, go with Intel. Although I'd never buy an Asus laptop anyway so idk
@@JhanSolo332 well, what's even they point it's not like the intel version of the laptop is getting a new body unless it does LOL. Because intel throttles down maybe a tinsy bit below AMD and they underrate the TDP as well.
To those who have bought this laptop, my suggestion would be to add heatsinks over the vrms, heatpipes and use the laptop normally. Connect the above heatsinks to the back panel and cover the top part of the back panel (above the fans) with copper tape. There is no need to drill holes into the back panel.
@@johnnyhshify by normally I meant no need of extra optimization etc etc... If u still insist.. U can limit cpu temperature to 85 or tdp to 30 watts For heatsinks, Checkout the amd reddit thread : "tuf a15 after properly fixing thermal issues". Basically what they do is use heatsinks to connect the heatpipes and vrms to the back panel. This will make ur back panel hotter but who cares, it wil increase ur laptop internals lifespan Last suggestion is using optimized settings for games, lock single player games to 30 or 60 fps For cpu only workloads, not stress tests... The laptop can sustain max speed. I have the R9 variant and it sustained 4.4 ghz during game installs
this is why I love this channel they admit if their assumption was wrong and gives the other side to defend themselves. hooray guys. cheers hake care always
You can't stop dusty with holes of this big size , and humidity too ! The hot air just leaves so do not enter dusty or humidify in the holes created! The dynamics of this system just let the hot air leave.
It might have similar chassis, actually ASUS hasn't changed the chassis and cooling system on the newer versions, its pretty similar to Stix Scar series which also had sub par cooling
I own the older FX705 with a Ryzen5 - RX560X and same Problems here...Temperatures well above 90 on the CPU...heatpipes seem to be the same as in the A17..chassis only slightly different on the intake holes but not much
ASUS seems to prefer keeping other parts "cooler" by heating/throttling more important components LOL This was awesome. Seeing the thumbnail of a power tool and OEM saltiness had me sold. 👌🏻
TreborSelt that's exactly how Dell overthought my 2500u laptop. If AMD claims it can run 95C, then why not to put it on 65C idle with fans turned off and 95C at a workload? I never expected 15W machine to be that bad
@@drwijnstein ASUS TUF RTX 3080 is now the best at cooling. ASUS is capable if it were possible I'd say. Gaming laptops are all bad at cooling anyways.
The could have made VRM run cooler if they located it better, or put a small heat spreader with some fins on a heat sink. It doesn't need to be big or tall. But I am sure the issue showed up pretty late in the design, where they already designed the main board (possibly glueing it would not be enough, and would require mounting holes, which motherboard lacks), and only were tweaking the case. Also cost reasons. The heatsink would probably need to be custom designed, and machined, then anodized, which is time consuming and costly process.
I will give you the reason why ASUS installed the M.2 SSD on the left(hotter) slot. The reason is because by doing that they are able monitor/control the temps using their specific m.2 drives they choose to use. If they had installed it on the right(cooler) slot and the user intalled a hot m.2 ssd drive on the left(hot) slot, it could possibly thermal throttle and then perfom poorly or even below advertised, which could have cause ASUS to receive all sort of complains regarding that. So it comes down to QA and (poor)design reasons.
tbh I was kinda thinking the same thing. In the end he wasn't talking to the persons who designed it so I don't think too much about the emails. From what I can see though neither him nor Asus are technically wrong and they definitely cut some corners
From what I understand OEMS have laptop designs in house all designed around intel cpus going years back. Now that they are using amd stuff they "should" redesign the chassis around it however, that's not what happens. They don't want to invest in retooling costs so they cram AMD into an intel chassis. Hence, things don't line up perfectly or at all.
2020 tuf a15 engineer: we have design honey comb style air flow for maximum cooling. marketing: no, cover 95% of the air flow. 2021 tuf a15 marketing: it's time to uncover the air flow and increase the price engineer:
@@Cat_Cat_Catto mean while on the side of Acer. Consumer: ryzen 4000 series is better Acer: Nah i mah stick with intel, let give lower spec configuration to amd
As a sabertooth x79 user for 6 years, I would say no. As the only company to come out with this much horsepower at this price... no. It looks like a testing bench for a ROG laptop honestly.
Asus Reasoning: "It overheats the components a little, causing them to break down just a little bit faster. That means you buy another laptop from us sooner."
Did you not see in the video where the increased VRM temperature caused constant throttle spikes of their own? The author's response to this was "well the cpu throttling without the modification is slightly worse the VRM throttling, so my point still stands". That's just retarded.. you just replaced one throttling component with another by making this modification.. actually two, since the ssd now runs hot... and you've reduced their lifespans.. Can't believe people are eating this crap up because "hurr anti-corporation is automatically gud journalism!"
@@mysnackr dude, the laptop is horrendously designed for thermals. don't try to justify Asus because HU tried to solve cpu 95C thermal throttling. Asus plain as day, shit the bed with this one. if I tried to justify a kick in the nuts for solving a headache that's one way to go about it. or you know, take the aspirine. Well, here's the thing, Asus chose to kick you in the nuts. good for you if you like getting your nuts kicked, I don't
@@mysnackr Leave aside for a moment the relative cost difference between the VRM and CPU... the comparison between throttling was not his main point, it's an aside. His actual response was: why didn't you install a heat sink on the VRM? With the obvious answer being that it was probably fractions of a dollar cheaper per unit - a decision that means consumers are forced to accept shitty cooling. I mean I don't buy into this mod (or a case redesign) by itself being a production ready solution. But one bloke and a Dremel and (I'm guessing) a day or two's worth of effort tops and we're, what, about three quarters of the way there? Asus' entire engineering team could and should have done better. Even if they couldn't his point remains, it's clearly a poor cooling design overall and should be avoided.
@@xedwyn6244 But the VRMs weren't the only issue, and it's not only about thermals. Staying to the thermals, take a look at high end professional Apple laptops. They constantly throttle and run hot, so badly that the performance is often very poor. And we're talking about laptops that cost upwards of 4 times what this laptop cost (I got a 2060 model at Best Buy for $899, and its performance destroys laptops 2x to 3x its cost). I'm sure you or I could make a video and dremel-out some holes in an Apple laptop and bring CPU temperatures down a few degrees, but at what cost? Thermals, structural integrity, lifespan of all components, heat transfer through the keyboard, aesthetics, etc. Asus covers their laptops on warranty like all companies. I"m sure if they could have easily made this laptop run cooler they would have, as it would translate to savings in warranty repairs. Unless you're buying the "Intel conspiracy" theory it doesn't make much sense. I understand bad designs can still happen, but this particular analysis is wrong and unfair.
I own an A15 and, the cooling fans are unfortunately failing on mine and I've had it for about a year. I'm curious now if modifying the base like you did would have prevented this.
Great video! Could the reason for the increased VRM temperatures be due to higher power draw and clock speed? You should set the clock speed manually to confirm if that's the reason for higher VRM temperatures.
I think it's definitely the case here, it looks like they deliberately make the hardware throttle enough just to make the VRM temperature did not exceed their considered "safe" limit, although i can see this problem solved by adding heatsink for the VRM which they didnt opted to do so. This is basically a bad internal design by looking at the cooling solution and M.2 slot placement and a bad product considered they categorize this laptop as a gaming laptop yet they used a panel with a mediocre response time. Yet we can't complain much about it because they probably did this to make people opted for the ROG line up rather than settling with a TUF laptop because its better, a strange decision considering people tend to choose AMD rather than Intel machine these days.
Making manufacturers "very angry". My favourite type of honest journalism.
ASUS' marketing team is clearly in isolated damage control mode and isn't talking to the engineering team. So much of the responses are canned double speak.
More like marketing frustrated and engineering justifying
@@johnknightiii1351 More like, no more review samples! :(
I hope they keep this up. It makes a difference!
Hardware Unboxed: The product sucks and could be improved
Asus: Reeeeeeeeee
Hardware Unboxed: *dremmels the chassis*
Asus: *sub to get the next episode on Hardware Unboxed and find out how Asus responds*
Congratulations on buying another ASUS laptop just to take it apart. Such dedication to calling out BS should be applauded.
I second this
It was nice of Hardware Unboxed to give Jarrod's Tech TWO of these laptops to test.
It was nice of them to “optimize for real world scenarios” by installing a poor screen. For content creators give them poor color performance. For gamers give them a panel with bad motion blur. At least they have that Mil-Spec since that is my number one concern. Wait, if it was wouldn’t I buy an LG Gram or a Dell Latitude 14 Rugged Extreme?
@@zerosystem8743 It's just marketing crap because the TUF name was used on stuff like the old Sabertooth boards, which were actually built really well.
These days, the TUF brand is reduced to just one designed for entry-level "gaming" gear and while there are some decent options, there are also plenty of mediocre junk with "military spec engineering" marketing plastered all over.
D13H4RD2L1V3 Yep, just like how things are labeled as “Tactical”. It’s like look guys; tactical knives, tactical sunglasses, tactical bacon, and tactical baby gear.
Well done - the new A15 now has stock air-intake vents like the ones you manually cut. Thank you for helping them create a better budget product for the ppl to enjoy.
Hope they've made some more improvements since then. (I remember when the Gateway FX laptops (like the P-171X FX) came out and they had Serious heat problems. Was a real pain in the ass. Have always worried about heating issues since then (...and SSD drives are Very susceptible to heat).
They were mad to think people buying a gaming laptop would prefer a pretty bottom over good airflow..
Spending $2000 of their own money just to see, if the manufacturer’s claims are “justified”.
Mad respect for you guys, sure makes me glad I’m subscribed and watching their videos constantly.
this is a battle of credibility. both can't really afford to lose.
Same
So many channels be like: "I wanted to do a review but they never sent a review unit 😭" lol
Same... but he didn't lose $2000.00. He still has a laptop that he can use or sell... and it's only the one part that's replaceable.
I'm sure he's gonna have warranty problems with it... but he don't seem like the kind of guy that sends his computers to be fixed for him.... and I think (and hope) he made enough money off the video to justify it all.
Remember when Asus released a 5700XT with loose screws, and then failed to take responsibility, blaming AMD instead? The response here makes it sound like their PR department still haven't learned anything.
lol yeah. probable the same people
And what's shocking none of the others manufactures had that issue and they *followed* the same guidelines that AMD gave them.
TBH I understood this since 2017 when Ryzen line ups being introduced for the first time. Never buy any AMD or Radeon related products if it is assembled by Asus. It's been 3 years and my stereotype of Asus is still true. Guess Asus is biased to Intel when making perfect Hardware solution. Asus only want money so they just making products that people are looking for, with half assed quality. While other brands never being Biased towards Intel or AMD in terms of quality.
Or, the 5700xt that didn't have proper cooling due to a garbage heat sink design?
@@Elc22 no, Asus designed ALL 5000 series Radeon Cards wrong 5500, 5600, 5700 non-XT and XT.
Wrong Voltage and Wattage value and controller, Wrong amount of electrical components on the Card's PCB design (some are too thick or too thin) so the amount of Electricity flowing through the Card is wrong straight from the Factory and cannot be solved by Bios flash or Bios update
MILITARY GRADE airflow restriction
Underated comment😂
@Harsh Kumar you have no idea how many kids I chased around with a stick when I was in school :))
@Harsh Kumar 😅😅
Ur surname means milk in my country
@@センナ-h4c that's a new one :))
Not sure if we will make a tee with "Hard Brown-Box" on it :S
That would be the shit. I'll be seeing myself out.
Hmmm. Harbour unboxed is pretty good too
You should make on and collaborate with noctua on it to get the best browness for your hard Box with best out of the Box thermals.
So a wooden box?
It could be a plain brown cardboard box weathering blows from a hammer and an anchor
In short: If ONE guy can mod/test and improve things, then, Asus with a team of engineers could have delivered a better design.
Asus been slacking recently
I concur.
@@GewelReal That's what focusing your marketing on a bunch of brand name fanatics does to a company (Republic of Gamers club).
and apple with the shitty cooling design on the macbook air
Gewel ✔ but zephyrus
So rarely do you find people who care about their integrity more than anything else. I often get the impression that people who do reviews try to please everyone and lose their credibility. Thank you!
He’s being quite TUF on the product
I'd punch a hole in the wall reading this comment if I worked for Asus 😂
He is Honest like TUF that's really wonderful 🤩
A15 year old would have agreed to what he said!
where is that VRM is that R15 modules?
Ba dum tsssss. . .
Tim: "Why is the SSD install in the left slot instead of the right slot?"
*Asus has left the chat*
They'll come back stronger. These videos make them better. Good job as always.
Agreed. Asus will be better in the next year. Across the board they have made some very poor thermal decisions lately. Will be good to see their products really improve as a result of these guys picking their choices apart.
I recognize through the time that ANY Asus notebook sucks at airflow. Either it just sucks from the beginning, or vaccum in the cooling tubes will dissapear after about 2 years
it seems that this was a manufacturing mishap as it seems the GTX 1650 version of the laptop does not have the problematic heatsink beside it... It feels like they made the laptop with the 1650 in mind and then just modified it to the 1660 for those who wanted the little bit of extra power.... as a result the design doesn't handle the extra thermal load all that well.
Obviously, ASUS is not gonna tell that because:
1. They're trying to sell a product here.
2. Theyre not going to reveal business practices which are confidencial.
Maybe because the included ssd does better near the heatpipes than third party ssd(s) which a customer might want to add in the future.
Other tech channel don't know jack how a computer works
Asus engineers: No! You can't simply cut holes into a laptop and expect better thermals it's a very complex design process that takes the mutual benefit of all laptop components at the same time even the aco.....
Hardware Unboxed: haha Dremel goes brrrr
Haha underrated
Lmao
they design to be infior...
Buahahaha
Like DOOM guy making a big hole in mars surface haha
1:45. That ASUS was livid about your review means you did your job. Numbers don't lie.
some just don't take criticism very well... they want gold medals even if the products are shite (Intel and Nvidia are the same way) if you don't do good reviews they dump you instead of fixing the issues
@@LiLBitsDK Screw them, I will always stick with who I can TRUST. Channels like this help stop ASUS and the like, from RIPPING OFF THE CONSUMER
I remember posted his video on Asus TUF facebook post. I guess they saw it lol
Asus just lying on "the first laptop with new AMD CPU" so they can said like "our stuffs are cheap and strong so those mistakes can be passed" while literally they can just keep the old FX505 version with 3 exhaust sinks and 5 heat pipes :V
Amazing investigation, well done 👍
Thank you for providing the pictures in this vid!
Dude..u r everywhere..
@@uddeshyasingh9789 he loves any laptop reviews, mate :D
You are here
Here's a testimony, bought a ASUS FX505DU laptop recently. AMD Ryzen 7 3750H (which isn't upgradable, because they were lazy to allow this option, to save a buck and make my life miserable) and Nvidia 1660 Ti. The laptop spins its double fans like little jet engines when running any sort of a modern game and cannot be held on the desk any longer. That's how good their "specific" designs are. Never getting Asus again, needless to say. :)
EDIT: Wasn't trying to rag on them, or troll anyone: it's the simple truth, meh.
Asus: "we had to focus on the overall longevity of the entire unit"
CPU bouncing off thermal throttling limits regularly: "Ummm... K."
CPUs are designed to throttle and they don't get damaged even when played at high temperatures for long. But other components will be damaged if overheated
@@shrujanamsyama9940 CPU's are designed to thermal throttle for the same reason cars have a rev-limiter: because if you go any higher, you'll break something. Possibly hitting the limiter from time to time when you're working it hard is what it's designed for. Running the machine bouncing off the limiter non-stop is not what it's designed for.
Besides, if you're thermal throttled, the CPU is underclocking. You may as well have just put in a smaller CPU at that point. because a 2.6ghz cpu running at 2.6 is better than a 2.9ghz cpu that's thermal throttled back to 2.3!
This FAQ from Intel:
www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005597/processors.html
"The goal for a system builder or a do-it-yourself (DIY) end user is to design a platform configuration that keeps the processor under the Tjunction max threshold during heavy workloads to maximize performance of the system"
I remember reading somewhere that the reason why the temps are so high up is due to some feature amd added to their laptops, which can be switched off. It was called virtual super sampling to something. The individual said it went down from 100+c to below 80. I can’t verify the claims, but if that is true, then should I buy this laptop? Also yeah, you’re right, i rather have a laptop that functions normally at 2.6ghz instead of one with a cpu that can potentially go up to 2.9ghz, but is only at 2.3ghz because its power has been reduced due to too much heat.
@@foxgaming76yt24 sadly, because specs and dimensions are all people care about, it's getting harder and harder to find one that DOESNT do this... Best way around it is to get a lower wattage CPU. If a laptop has R7 and R5 options, chances are the R5 one is rocking the same cooling solution as was used on the R7 model... Just have to see if you can fine one with the ram, SSD and GPU spec you want with the lower processor
@@shrujanamsyama9940 what other components are you talking about?
"Hey our VRM temps are cocked, what do we do?"
"Lets block up the vents and throttle our CPU."
"You're a f*cking genius!"
This comment needs more thumbs up, lol
Heat pipes cost 5$ ! 🤕🤒
@@rahuldogra Way less than that lol.
Trust me if it was that much they would be justified in not using them! (multiply by number of that model made. There's your answer why, heh)
@@rahuldogra Not necessarily the space for more heatpipes to cool the VRMs.
I really think this was an actual discussion in Asus. :v
asus just keep destroying their rep. they dont know how to take feedback and improve their products anymore.
their reply is typical marketing buzz words
@@kasmidjan the person replying might not probably the engineer who designs them which is a normal thing i guess
idk what is going on @ASUS. They continue to destroy their premium brand reputation by releasing such garbage products and then they wonder why fewer people buy their products
True i think the fx505dy is the last asus im using..consider getting an Acer or Lenovo after this
@@LuqmanHM the person who designed it wasn't an engineer either
All right, so the modification made the VRM hotter. But it also made the CPU run faster by drawing more power. Delivering more power to the CPU should result in hotter VRM. So what happens if you lock the CPU frequency and power delivery to the same watts? That should equalize VRM power consumption and let you compare VRM temperature more directly to see what the difference from the design alone is in isolation.
THISSSSSSSSSSSS
Getting strong Gamer's Nexus vibes here from drilling holes in a poorly ventilated chassis.
I think that the "other" Steve might take issue now that you have more options for a "disappointment of the year" video.
Gamers Unboxed
Hardware Nexus
Plus the making Asus angry part lol
Aren't VRM temperatures higher in some part because the CPU is consuming more power?
That would be a funny consequence.
@@icedoutshef ditto
Depends on the quality and efficiency of the VRMs used. Lower would mean more heat is generated while higher means less.
Since this is the TUF line, it would naturally have cheaper VRMs than a ROG laptop. While CPU power consumption does play a key role, the power config set is only about 45w which is average and there are many other devices that handle a 45w chip better, be it Intel or AMD.
That vrm should not run that hot in the first place
and they could spend 20$ and make a heatpipe or heatsink for VRM
@@icedoutshef yes your are right
Waiting for someone to make a custom 3D-printed base lid for this laptop
They should sell that on ebay or something
I was just going to mount some standoffs and point a fan at the base
after dealing with my boss' macbook 16" with thermal issues, this is the same thing all over again. With an aluminum base and some thermal pads, you could cool this laptop down ALOT. I mean really... who games on their lap?
3D print might melt
I'm also waiting for custom base for this laptop.
TUF= Throttles Under Full load
Try again
TUF = Throttles under Furmark
@@StephenDeTomasi better
Throttles Under Fire ? :D heheheh
TUF = Truly Uniquely Fucked
My take away from this. Asus where right, their design was helping to cool the other components. However this needed to be done because of the bad design of the overall cooling solution.
That's absolutely right
they could spend 20$ and make a better cooling design, they are just cheaping out
Ugh, this is what I tried to say in an overly verbose comment! Well said :)
Well its a bit more nuanced than that... they probably made any 'early on' decision to not bother with heatsink to include the cpu vrm. Due to it being for a lower tdp more effecient AMD 7nm cpu.... Then found out at a later time that it was inadequate. And could not change the heatsink assembly by that point because it was too late during mfr. At least not without raising the costs for the product. Which the product manager would have been under some pressure to keep costs under control. So then the PM turns to the engineers and says 'find some other way to solve this'. And it comes at the bigger picture cost 'not on the books', for damaging the company's reputation and image. So this whole thing is institutionalized into their product development and management / corporate culture. Just dont buy ASUS, they - should not be rewarded for this kinds of behaviour. Your hard earned money should go to other companies who give more honest responses. And not repeat canned responses going through the legal dept.
they can install a passive heatsink on the VRM's for less than $1...
This dude is what every reviewer should aspire to be, 100% called out thier bs and when they responded he directly challenges the response.
Better R&D done by a reviewer who spent their own money, for shame ASUS.
ASUS made a balanced laptop, that does one thing, it makes the balance sheet better.
They could've added cooling for the VRM's but that costs more money, they could've used a better screen but that costs money.
@@imo098765 Loosing sales because of poor reviews also costs money. Hopefully companies start to learn that good reviews from trusted reviewers matter a lot.
@@imo098765 I would be willing to pay 100 $ more for better thermals... and copper is not that expansive. It is just a poor design. I wanted to buy A15, but I decided on another laptop. And I am definitely not the only one. The decided to cheapen out and are losing money because of it.
@@imo098765 it costs 5$-10$, just look at the price of CPU coolers, you can get a full tower cooler with a fan for 30$-40$
@@katech6020 per unit. It adds up more than a few sales lost. Otherwise they wouldnt make it this way
That Asus reply seems largely like PR nonsense which largely ends up being a non answer
I call those "excuses"!
they just PR their product and dont want to answer. Those reply is nonsense
What is PR
Ayrton Arias public relations I think, It’s to improve the reputation of a company to gain the trust of more consumers and in turn sell more products
More fun, check the heat that is forced onto the LCD panel from the M16(2022) version. They have the exhaust vents directly forcing hot exhaust onto the bottom of the LCD panel. Yes, it does substantially heat up the panel during gameplay.
19ms response time, wtf were they thinking - my ping is less than that
My OLED tv has such a response time....
My phone had that response time, if not worse :(
If you think that's bad wait until you hear about the g14
10ms less won't make you a better gamer
Aman Goyal i bet you are one of the people who said 60hz and 144hz difference dont matter in gaming
"we heard 4000 series ryzen CPUs are really power efficient. We won't even need vents!"
Yeah best to insulate the Ryzen 4000 CPUs from the rest of the PC to keep other components cool. Like spray insulating foam around the CPU.
Kurt U series yes
I use an Asus Zenbook Pro that doesn’t even have visible intake vents on underside. With a i7 7700HQ and a GTX 1050 it just takes time before it thermal throttles without using it...
@@jelledekort5786 thats bad @@ mine Duo dont get throttled even after 6 hours using nonstop @@
"We need to save power somehow. Oh, I know! Throttle the clocks down with overheating!"
Thanks for the thorough review. I am a loyal ASUS customer based on owning several of their laptops. The first was a G73 followed by a G74. I gave the G73 away but it is still going strong and running 24/7 in a monitoring role,. My G74 has been upgraded with an SSD and is a fabulous matching for my astronomy needs.
Longevity is important to me and I have never need to push my systems to the limit.
I am considering upgrading to one of the FX505 Tuf gaming laptops as a travelling astronomy machine. Again, I will probably never run games on it but just wanted the extra ruggedness for the travel. What ASUS claim makes sense to me and I can see your points also. For best performance the extra holes seem to help. For longevity, ASUS did what they believe was needed.
For the price I think I will get this new machine anyway and thanks again for such a detailed and honest review,.
My son has that computer FX505 with GTX1650 and Ryzen 5 3550H. He is very happy with and the performance of it seems about identical to my other son's Asus Strix Rog with about similar specs. Its a fine machine. I do not know how much of the ruggedness claim Asus makes with the TUF series is actually valid. These machines are no Panasonic Toughbooks. They seem to be built well, and the thicker plastic must protect them a bit, but they are such expensive machines anyhow that the YT reviewers will not subject them and their counterparts to "lets drop from 50 cm and again at 1m" abuse to see what the real differences are. And what are the real dangers anyhow, is it drops or is it water from condensation or rain or is it sand or dust. That changes from person to person, but I from what I see these machines really have no protection against the dangers beyond small bumps.
I still have a G74Sx that is still running after 9 odd years.. But I was after an upgrade and so bought the ASUS TUF FX505DV the Ryzen 7 with the 2060 RTX and I'm very happy with it and its max temps in turbo mode stay around 82 degree and in silent mode around the low 40s which is acceptable to me.. I love it
@@mrbrad4637 hey , what's it like when it comes to noise at these high temperatures of 80-90 ?
@@mateuszpilski5524 It's pretty loud I'll admit that. Very loud even.. much louder than the G74SX, I usually have the game volume up high enough or headphones in so it doesn't bother me much, infact you get use to the noise and tune out from it - its only noisey when running a modern game, in Windows and office its dead silent with no fan spin at all.
@@mrbrad4637 thanks for that info , i assumed that this was the case , I think for high performance modern gaming , you will just need a PC, at the end of the day low budget laptops are just laptops on steroids , and the high end are spaceships 🤣 l don't want to nudge you too much more , but do you use it for video and photo editing by any chance? If so , what's the noise like when using that kind of software...
Alternate title: Delusional Asus representatives destroyed by facts and logics and Dremel tool
Thanks!
ben shapiro reference
We should use the Dremel tool directly on them...
Fact don't care about your feelings
L😷L
That default ssd placement is just stupidity by these "professional" engineers.
Just because they hold an engineering degree doesn't mean they are smart.
@@Lewis360 What do you call engineers who graduated last in their class?
Engineers.
@@Lewis360 Tim has his Masters of engineering so I agree.
@@gamingunboxed5130 Oof, that burn.
This is because the purpose of the right m2 slot is to butcher the battery capacity.
You can't have battery life in the budget products. Also, cooling and display. There is ROG series for that.
Maybe you can check what happens after the whole honeycomb structure is cut out?
And my friend reduced the temperature by raising the back of the laptop (he made a small stand on the back along the entire length).
Asus: This is best design!!!
Harbour Unboxed: HOLD MY DREMEL TOOL!!!
"Harbour unboxed", is that an insider?
@MzNToS Also Hammer on Box, Hard Wrong Box and the most recent one, Hard Brown-Box.
Harbour Unboxed: HOLD MY DREMEL TOOL!!
...oooo errrr Missus
That cool looking crane in the background holding a CPU box though
Lennie Godber Its awesome! Loved those kind of toys as a kid. Some of them can lift a few kilos, which is not bad actually considering.
Beat me to it, very nice
I see junk and clutter
@@gaurd3 found the Asus rep
It's the LEGO 42082
Asus is going to hire this guy.
No. They won't. Because, if they hire this guy, then the thermals of their budget laptops would increase and more people would prefer these budget laptops and sales of their premium products will decrease
Hardware Unboxed: "So why didn't you put heatsinks on the VRM?"
Asus: *panics and quickly copy-pastes a paragraph from their marketing material*
It really is incredibly frustrating when they can't just be honest. Because it's cheaper, obviously.
they are good at that
its good propaganda
What a great opportunity for me to place my b450m gaming mb here to pair with that oven
This video is just beyond stupid. He didnt even think about that not everybody puts notebook just on flat table? If you put on uneven surface or in bed or on yourself its immediately choked. It just suck dust and garbage from whatever surface you put it on. Whoa! what an amazing idea! The grills as he cut it would most likely break as soon as someone grabbed the notebook and put finger over it.
Not to mention that everybody likes to have fan blowing over them when they have laptop on lap. Or that everybody for sure likes to have glowing hot heatsinks in their lap for hours.
I dont know if they ran out of content or what happened here really. The insulation on bottom is on most laptops for a reason and that is to dont burn you from direct contact with 100C chip/heatsink. I hope everybody likes to put hot heatsinks directly on them, just wtf sure there is no direct airfrow from bottom, if there was your leg your skin would be few mm from those heatsinks and you would get burned after few minutes.
Good channel really but this was really low. Very similar to Gamers nexus case reviews that almost always end up with conclusion that best peformance is achieved when you remove all dust filters and drill holes to all panels. You just have to clean your pc from dust every week or do it like them, dump the case after few days of testing and never use it again.
@@eth_saver Yeah
intel: cripple amd laptops - here is money
asus: ok
...
intel: give our bribe back - it shouln'd be done so obvious
Shouldn'd
This laptop can be configured with an intel processor so no.
@@siZeDcuBe so what, people are too ignorant to buy amd, they think it still sucks
the 4800h is this laptop can beat the 4900hs in the g14 what are you talking about?
😂😂😂😂💯
1:57 Engineered with certain things in mind...... That thing in mind being that the pricier laptops are the ones that get actually good cooling
Man, it's been tuf for ASUS' TUF GAMING brand. They did a great job with their X570 MOBOs, but between these A15 laptops and the RX 5700 (XT) issues, they really need to get their act together.
their entire z390 line was trash with low vrm phases and they claimed they were fine and purposefully engineered with 8 phases compared to competing brands 12-16 phases for equivalent line boards while asus' boards were priced 25-100 bux more for equivalents
I feel the exact same way, ASUS product stack is very inconsistent with thermal performance. I own an ASUS X570-F Gaming and it is excellent, but I would never have purchased their older Ryzen MBs with the reported terrible VRM performance (such as their B450 MBs). Their x5700 Tuff GPU was also a train wreck.
ASUS really needs to take Tim's conclusions and his advice seriously in my opinion, I am highly disappointed with their reply to him.
tuf used to be rog level quality without the flashiness and more focus on cooling and longevity, they were cool products, now its another low end pece of shit
Remember the old TUF Sabertooth? That was a legitimately good product...
Welcome to butchering a once good brand for the sake of market segmentation
Once upon a time Asus TUF used to be pretty much the same as ROG without all the 14 year old "look at me" RGB like nonsense. Asus has pretty much downgraded their TUF branding to cheapo "value" brand. Itseems however they forgot to downgrade the price as well..
"Engineered with certain things in mind."
Someone told the engineers to make a laptop that didn't suck or blow and the engineer thought that meant zero cooling.
Have you ever heard Planned Obsolescence?
Almost every product made with a mind that "this product shouldn't last too long, make it worse so they need to buy/repair faster".
"I've sacrificed this laptop here as an experiment so you don't have to" just earned my sub
Asus R&D: We tested this with games and it ran great! I don't know what Hard-Brown-box is talking about.
Asus CEO: What games did you test?
Asus R&D: Minesweeper and Solitaire
Asus CEO: Awesome...Ship it
To be fair, maybe it was solitaire at 8k 144fps /s
Who would win?
A team of Asus engineers
- or -
A guy with a dremel?
tech jesus with a drill
Keep in mind this design is now 2 years old -- this is the FX505 series rebadged
You would think a team of engineers lol but not the case. Or they really trying to make AMD look bad? Can see any other explanation.
Asus engineers are very smart. They remove one exhaust hole, cut out heat pipes and place the vent away from the fan compare to last year and still thinking that they have "improved" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@mhamma6560 except, it's worse than FX505.
My FX505D doesn't overheat, but it's loud, and i don't care, as long it's not overheating.
A bigger hole isn't always better than a smaller holes. You couldn't be more wrong to think that having bigger hole equals to more airflow in volume, it depends on the fan size.
A bigger hole equals to larger air volume intake at 1 time (but also spread wider area and lower circulation speed due to less pressure) and smaller hole equals to faster circulation speed ( but spread narrower and higher internal pressure), given the fans' power and size are constant value and also the hole size isn't extremely unreasonable.
That being said it doesn't take a Sherlock to guess that they intentionally covering those hole because they probably design the casing for multiple fan sizes and heat sink arrangement for different GPU (with common knowledge that gtx is power efficiency core and rtx isn't)
Another mistake is you thought higher end laptop models would generate more profits than lower end laptop models, thus motivate they doing this to sell higher end unit. That couldn't be more wrong cause the profit actually based on the price they set and the actual hardware and design cost, not to mention lower end/budget end models usually sell more units than higher end models.
Also i believe they create the hole not directly below the fan is to create a more accesible (not heated) keyboard to enhancing gaming experiences of long hours gaming and also to protect components.
Rog gaming laptop is in minority (compared to Lenovo and MSI) which can still run flawlessly while being as powerful after 6 years of usage and that's show the quality of design they had.
All in all I think you're not an engineer cause you didn't understand everything had trade off (and obviously you didn't think that through before you made reckless groundless assumption), like adding heat sink and plastic thickness would make the laptop more chunky, heavier, higher price and possible blocking/ bottleneck the air ventilation space inside the casing.
As Sherlock Holmes quote, "The distinction is clear. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of twisting theories to suit facts."
Very well said. This is true.
In 2010 me and a friend of mine bought Asus Rog g51v's they had the same shitty design for the air flow. I decided to cut a hole on the bottom and my friend decided to keep it stock. His laptop died 3 years before mine. So you are saying...?
I'm engineer and what you just said no make sense at all , lower temps = longevity it's so easy to grasp.
Might be they paid for those toughness approvals, failed them as those vents break easily and damage the fan which is a critical failure, so to fix it with minimal effort they just removed those cutouts.
Another possibility they have some component(s) that overheat too much and fail completly.
Anyways it's quite clear to me that whatever the reason is they don't want to share it.
Big Brain time
They probably weren't counting on Tim going at it with a cutting tool when their PR person word-smithed the response lol
Last years TUF series had 2 grills near their both fans and one large in the middle...you could practically see the ram from the outside...that intake configuration was so good! They ruined it with this new version.
Choking the new 4000 series amd laptops. The 4800H with moderate cooling puts the best from intel (found in +2000$ laptops) to shame. It would be a direct attack to their higher line-up. This laptop with a better cooling solution (vrm heatsink, better underside...) And a better screen would probably only increase the price by 100$ at most, making it still a lot cheaper than their high-end laptops. It would be a no brainer to buy since the rest of laptop is pretty good, unless you're seeking a very slim and light design (which would perform worse thermal vise).
Let's make this into a series.
Let's cut fan vents into a MacBook Pro.
The MacBook Pro already has fan vents on the side and there are channels to guide the air from there to the fan. The Macbook AIR on the other hand, that's a different story…
@@RaXXha I own a MBP 16". It get mad hot beneath and it could use more cooling.
@@RaXXha Wireless CPU cooling is always good
For macbook pro you need cooling dongle
@@RaXXha it doesn't even have a fan on its CPU no heat piping either. The fan is on the other side of the laptop for emotional support.
you dont mention changing fan profiles or undervolting the CPU... both work in reducing temps... im running the F17 TUF from Asus and its been running great... not had the issues youre having but everyone knows the i7 CPUs run hotter than the equ. Ryzen 5/7/9...
Investigation part 2: put a heat sink on the vrm
This comment need more thumps up
When the best tool for improving performance by an end-user is a dremel tool, the engineers who designed the product have failed. To deny this failure and also deny the results from testing by said end-user baselessly, is to be blatantly lying to save face.
They successfully handicapped a cheaper product to make their top tier products looked better to uninformed customers.
Or a youtuber trying to make content
I doubt that the engineers would have made it that way.
As a software engineer I love good solution but I'm often held back by time and business constraints.
I believe the engineers aren't happy either with the design.
@@themasterofdisaster1 Could be, but there's also plenty of shit engineers who are still employed worldwide.
@@user-rm4sy7nl3k Your contention is that ASUS makes shit laptops so that... TH-camrs can make content? Or that ASUS can make content? Or?
Your comment makes no sense lol
I cut two half pentagons on top of both my gpu and cpu fans. The increased airflow did lead to higher chassis temps on the front vent, however as it's a plastic case you won't feel anything unless you put your hand on the vent. My idling temps have decreased by 5-9 degrees.
Asus : Gets angry and says they're right.
Hardware Unboxed : Makes another video and says they installed the ssd in the wrong place. 😂😂😂😂
More like: "Why is there a heatsink right next to the SSD and not used to cool down the ssd?"
"911? I've just witnessed a murder."
I guess you could cut the holes near the original holes and not directly over the fans, this way giving more breathing room to the fans and cooling the VRMs and SSD.
Asus replies to his questions are like indiegogo scam Q&A's.
any response to a popular youtuber must extreme carefully, because they already hijacked a large amount of audience.
"we focus on real world scenarios" reminds me of intel's "not everything is benchmarks"
Well isn't that a perfectly reasonable thing to say? The TUF brand is supposed to give you value for your dollar. If that means tweaking the design to perform to spec under normal load conditions such as games or video rendering, that should be enough. If making the system perform better for benchmarks would mean a $10 higher BOM then the purpose of the brand is lost. ASUS aren't dumb and know that most customers want a product that just works while they do normal use-case things, at a good price.
My reasoning of course being that benchmarks generally load the system more than any normal use would do.
I remember when intel was all about the "benchmarks", back when they used to pay off the most popular benchmarking software to perform worse with AMD.
@@rihasanatrofolo2472 good old cinebench
@@crazytech5755 with Open CL having not being updated since 2012, it's really obvious why and cards take such a hit
History repeats itself
The design is like that to help their anti dust fans. So it gives you a longer lifespan overall. 👍🏻
Lol
Or you clean them occasionally? I know that's crazy talk, I do that sometimes.
“We can’t keep the VRM, SSD, CPU and GPU cool all at the same time” = We didn’t design this at all competently.
If only ASUS hired a dude in his garage with a dremel.
Well when u make product. U not just put all in the spec performance. Literally if asus deed make it far better. I think the cost will also increase. What i see from this series is they sacrifice something to target certain price customer and also widen the customer profit from it. For us geek it is not optimal. But for most population which is only normal people, they don't care about it it just the same thing. It work and it do it work well thats all most common people care.
@@calvingea7180 Bro , there's the Acer Nitro 5 tho...
@@Aka.Aka. but acer nitro 5 not giving u rtx2060 except if u buy around the $1500 price one. Remember in tuf u get rtx2060
@@Aka.Aka. if u buy the gtx version nitro 5 is better choice
The tuf series for me has gather enough bad reputation for me to keep away.
Thanks for the great video!
ikr... the premise of TUF brand is a tough products that can last longer than regular ASUS brand.
Now, this brand is basicly a cheaper products with worse components than ROG.
And the regular ASUS brand is basicly a laptop with good design.
Let me make it clear, the looking is good, but the touch feeling is bad
The ASUS brand is gathering a bad reputation on its own because of issues like this and how they handle the criticism.
Cutting holes makes air flow directly into the fan instead of traversing throughout the whole of base. This increases temperature for other components located far behind. You cannot throttle other minor electronic components but can throttle CPU or GPU
that's exactly what I was thinking
it seems like any product with the TUF branding is shoddy.
Only a few are actually decent to good, like the X570 Plus.
Other than the old Sabertooth, many of them are just low-tier poop
exactly what i was thinking!
asus pc parts are way better than their laptop counterparts, either its TUF or ROG, most of them do have a good quality meanwhile their laptops especially their low ends are total disaster
@@NeXMaX Yeah, my old Sabertooth 990FX boards which I had several were top notch. TUF branding is DOA today.
These days my z97 sabertooth tuf edition was pretty solid
I remember when the asus 5700xt had the "best overall thermal performance" too.
I have always uses msi/giga/asus and liked all of them (they've all had thier faults too) but right now its like asus are trying to fuck up as much as asrock and they're trying really hard.
I agree almost in all aspects of the video, but I personally bought this laptop and in any way it feels like a bad purchase and a "must not buy", in fact, I found it really good as a Quality/Price product, since almost all of the other laptops with overall same specs, are like $200 to $500 more expensive.
That been said, the video it's really complete and the investigation done is simply amazing!
The sad part is that it could've been even better, but they decided not to.
@@yottaXT this could have been a GOLDEN laptop. As a video editor, the 144hz screen could have gone with a lower Hertz and better color gamut. This simple hack here is amazing.
Nothing is destroyed anyway: you can buy for 40$ ASUS original bottom replacement from spare parts resellers. Great video on a very interesting topic!
My thoughts exactly.
but you dont have the warranty pad for it @@
Or buy a replacement part to do the alterations, and keep the original as backup? So your warranty will not be void.
I couldn't find one. ANy names where I can find one?
it's always the same story for AMD laptops for the past 15+ years. Poor displays and lower battery capacity compared to Intel counterparts.
Yes I wonder who that would benefit, doesn't make sense does it? 😉
@@redrock425 Obviously the OEM milking AMD hype, and taking rebates from intel.
Ah, the power of "Marketing Development Funds" 🙃
I'll share some findings which might sort of make sense why manufacturers tend to do what they do. I recently purchased a MSI GE 75 Raider(i7 9750H/RTX 2080 150W)
The out of the box thermals weren't very impressive with the i7 constantly crossing 90C and the GPU hovering between 70-80C. So I undervolt the CPU, so there's an instant reduction in temps as expected. Now comes the interesting part, GPU sits between 60s-low 70s now since GPU & CPU shares the cooling solution & thus a reduction in CPU temps reflects along in the GPU as well.
Now, I feel that this isn't enough & I decide to repaste the laptop(both CPU & GPU) with TG Kryonaut. Surprise surprise, load & idle CPU and GPU temps drop down considerably, (by ~ 10C). However I notice a slight increase in load GPU temps(~ 2-5C) & a noticeable increase in surface temps(WASD now starts feeling hot to touch), this is somewhat mitigated by manually putting the fan speed to max, but the surface is still warmer than before.
This leads me to believe that the better paste resulted in better dissipation & thus consequently the surface temps rise more due to the temperature gradient.
This was further validated when I found in a thread on a MSI forum that a guy who claimed to be a MSI technician said that the factory paste that they apply is different for the CPU, GPU & VRM. The GPU paste they use has a supposedly higher conductivity than the CPU one, The improvement I got in temps are in line with this theory, there was a very noticeable improvement in CPU temperatures while a slight increase in GPU temps. While the slight increase in GPU temps can't be attributed to a poorer paste since I used TG Kryonaut which is sort of the category leader in TIMs, I can assume it is because the CPU now dumps more heat & faster onto the cooling solution thus resulting in a higher than before GPU temp, although small. The same reason is why the surface temps now rise. This doesn't affect me since I use an external keyboard, but I suppose MSI was deliberate about their choice of TIM to ensure overall temp stability and this was done(rather counterintuitively so) by using a inferior TIM on the CPU.
So I suppose, these manufacturers are well aware of the tradeoffs they make in the final production grade design. Having said that, I agree with you that this is a cheap solution to maintain thermals & that we deserve better, more all round cooling solutions.
@Ben T. I gained thermal headroom so the sustainable boost clock ceilings rose to 3.5Ghz+ at the cost of temps crossing 80C+ , however I am paranoid about temps crossing 70(haha lol Ik I can go more but I prefer not to) so my main intention was not sustaining higher turbos but rather lower load temps.
I have all the 6 cores capped at 3.0Ghz, speedshift epp at 128, and PL1 & PL2 both capped at 45W,
along with -250mV on core, -125mV on cache and -75mV on IGP.
GPU capped at 775mV/1700MHz
Combined Load temps on both CPU and GPU stay within 70 for the most part.
@@saikatsarkar858 wow -250mv on core it must be a good silicon or msi is overvolting that cpu
@@renmaru4485 nah the 8th and 9th gen Intel CPUs can handle undervolt in a 2:1 ratio. The core voltage offset can go about twice as low as the cache.
My 9300h is on -250mV core and -130 cache at 4.1 GHz.
@Ben T. I had a HP and I know what you mean. The laptop was well built but had some issues like the overheating.. HP laptops are known to be a good heat source in winter :D In the other hands I remember friends with more expensive laptops experiencing shut downs during game while my throttling loud HP still working.
The next one was an Asus in 2015, with poor cooling and annoying always stressed fan.
I ordered an XMG 17/Eulktronics 17 and I think these laptops are the solution for people wanting reliable machines with good AMD CPUs
Did you try undervolting the GPU as well? Cause pretty sure the 1660ti could easily hit close to 2ghz and do so at a lower voltage than stock.
1:53 "Had the best overall performance and the design specifically Engineered with *Certain THING in mind* "
p. s. : Certain THING
" *cough* "
*INTEL MONEY*
" *cough* "
Glad someone brought it up
Exactly my thoughts, all those companies do this intentionally in order to help Intel
@@Oneath why doesn't Lisa sue Intel Again?
@@rubaiyatmehedi9337 Good word joke, I guess she is too shy :P
He literally said this design is used in intel laptops
Bro if i use this laptop in Malaysia with ambient of 34C average, i can boil some water
Here in your neighborhood, Indonesia with same temp, and currently using FX laptop, I can relate
Wait for g14 man, launches next monday
if that's the case in my city we have an average temp of 44C i can use it as a barbecue!
go for nitro 5/dell G5
@@iADActive yo dude wtf. That's scary. Where do you live?
I repaired a a15 for a friend and some other Asus gaming laptops in the last 2 yrs, apparently components love to fuse themselves to the layers of the board. Wonder why
When you can't make good high end laptops, sabotage the budget offerings.
The ROG Zephyrus G14 is very well reviewed.That makes this stupid failure even more baffling.
checkmate Asus, get your ASUS together
Don't overthink. I have a 10 year old laptop which would work perfectly well nowadays, but because of thermal solution it is sucking air through keyboard together with dust. Thus the keys right in front of the fan are automatically broken because of planned obsolescence. And it is nearly impossible to clean the keyword from inside, I tried, it is not meant to be opened but only replaced as one module.
"welcome back to hard brown box.." that is a interesting one auto generated by youtube XD
Definitely the wrong website
Dude I can't unhear it now
@@EEF2077 maybe you are machine too now
New merch incoming
"Engineered with certain things in mind" - That thing would be market/product segmentation. buy the top end SKU from asus and you won't get throttled. What an amazing idea /s
Aymane Boubleh Macbook air even doesn’t have heat pipes 🤣
Thank you! Finally someone in the comments has a business mind and not just a tech brain, shittt. Asus does not want to cannibalize sales from their next tier/level of laptops. So yes, throttle this one and if you want the best of the best, spend more $$
zerocal76 the “best of the best” would sell anyway if it performed on par (it also thermal throttles) with a mediocre design and no ugly logo on the back. You can tap in to one market without tanking you’re other ones that isn’t smart business wise as it leads to angry customers bad publicity and people like me who won’t buy the top end even if it didn’t have issues because of what they’ve done with this one. What kind of a “business” that has the customers best intentions at heart does that?
@@harrisoningham5992 Ok sure the better product would still sell given what you said but it would sell in lower quantities. And if the profit margin is higher on the more expensive product, which is very common in most industries, then less profit for the company. I, like you, don't agree with what they do (call it tactics) but so many companies are doing the sort of thing that was done w the Tuf line that its becoming a standard. Businesses basically won't give the consumer a better product until they absolutely have to or when they are trying to capture more market share.
@@EdiUtomoPutra I'm pretty sure that Apple made the Macbook Air's cooling system is intentionally bad. The fan is literally not cooling anything and the puny heatsink isn't even properly touching the CPU.
Can someone explain why increasing airflow causes the SSD temperature to rise? Isn't more air for cooler internals?
Cutting holes makes air flow directly into the fan instead of traversing throughout the whole of base. This increases temperature for other components located far behind. You cannot throttle other minor electronic components but can throttle CPU or GPU
I hope AMD intervene or something, they promised to inspect and work closely on laptop featuring their product to offer a balanced system and this is really not.
If AMD rock the boat too much, then these OEMs will just go "too much effort, back to Intel". No matter which way AMD cuts it, the OEMs did this to them before and they'll do it again!
They simply can't, because OEM don't care about AMD, if AMD wanted to put strict rule, they will simply not make AMD laptops
@@eabelcourt I mean if AMD keeps dominating CPUs they'll have all the power to say fine, go with Intel. Although I'd never buy an Asus laptop anyway so idk
@@JhanSolo332 well, what's even they point it's not like the intel version of the laptop is getting a new body unless it does LOL. Because intel throttles down maybe a tinsy bit below AMD and they underrate the TDP as well.
Could you review lenovo legion 5 amd versions whenever you get review units please!
To those who have bought this laptop, my suggestion would be to add heatsinks over the vrms, heatpipes and use the laptop normally.
Connect the above heatsinks to the back panel and cover the top part of the back panel (above the fans) with copper tape.
There is no need to drill holes into the back panel.
Using it normally means significantly underutilizing the CPU and GPU. What heatsinks and additional piped do you recommend and is there even space.
@@johnnyhshify by normally I meant no need of extra optimization etc etc...
If u still insist.. U can limit cpu temperature to 85 or tdp to 30 watts
For heatsinks, Checkout the amd reddit thread : "tuf a15 after properly fixing thermal issues". Basically what they do is use heatsinks to connect the heatpipes and vrms to the back panel. This will make ur back panel hotter but who cares, it wil increase ur laptop internals lifespan
Last suggestion is using optimized settings for games, lock single player games to 30 or 60 fps
For cpu only workloads, not stress tests... The laptop can sustain max speed.
I have the R9 variant and it sustained 4.4 ghz during game installs
this is why I love this channel they admit if their assumption was wrong and gives the other side to defend themselves.
hooray guys.
cheers hake care always
Not really, their previous video was very assertive, he openly attacked Asus and made no adumptions but Rather judgment was passed.
I read the Acer Nitro 5 with 144 Hz monitor beats the A15 :)
Ryzen 5 4600H + GTX 1650 (Ti).
Sad there is no 17" version.
The holes are engineered ins such a way to stop humidity and dust Broo
If u cut the bottom pannle j have to clean it every few weeks
right
You can't stop dusty with holes of this big size , and humidity too ! The hot air just leaves so do not enter dusty or humidify in the holes created! The dynamics of this system just let the hot air leave.
What about the A17?
It might have similar chassis, actually ASUS hasn't changed the chassis and cooling system on the newer versions, its pretty similar to Stix Scar series which also had sub par cooling
I own the older FX705 with a Ryzen5 - RX560X and same Problems here...Temperatures well above 90 on the CPU...heatpipes seem to be the same as in the A17..chassis only slightly different on the intake holes but not much
Hardware Unboxed vs Asus
second season
the best thing is to remove the freakin bottom panel all together and keep the laptop on an ice pack or inside the fridge 🤣🤣🤣
ASUS seems to prefer keeping other parts "cooler" by heating/throttling more important components LOL
This was awesome. Seeing the thumbnail of a power tool and OEM saltiness had me sold. 👌🏻
TreborSelt that's exactly how Dell overthought my 2500u laptop. If AMD claims it can run 95C, then why not to put it on 65C idle with fans turned off and 95C at a workload? I never expected 15W machine to be that bad
Tim this might be my favourite video of yours on this channel, keep up the great work, really excellent stuff! Appreciate your hard work
Asus after getting frustrated: "bro just get a laptop cooling pad"
Won't help it since the intake vents are so tiny 😂
by Asus
@@drwijnstein ASUS TUF RTX 3080 is now the best at cooling. ASUS is capable if it were possible I'd say. Gaming laptops are all bad at cooling anyways.
@@jonirojonironin5353 not legion
@@Farhan-mn1fr I meant it as a comparison to desktops. The cooling on gaming laptops is just so much inferior compared to desktops.
18:47 This heatpipe must be covered with Kapton tape to block heat transfer to SSD.
As far as I know, this tape is not used for thermal insulation. Correct me if I am wrong.
Should test with a cooling pad, curious to see if it would help with vrm and ssd
The could have made VRM run cooler if they located it better, or put a small heat spreader with some fins on a heat sink. It doesn't need to be big or tall. But I am sure the issue showed up pretty late in the design, where they already designed the main board (possibly glueing it would not be enough, and would require mounting holes, which motherboard lacks), and only were tweaking the case. Also cost reasons. The heatsink would probably need to be custom designed, and machined, then anodized, which is time consuming and costly process.
Asus says: "no, this is the best thermal performance! "
Hardward Unboxed:
or... hold my box
Hold my dremel!
I would love to see deep dives of other laptop coolers and GPU coolers as well. big honks of copper. Lets see who does it best
Please do this research for the 2021 model as well. I noticed some changes to the new one.
I will give you the reason why ASUS installed the M.2 SSD on the left(hotter) slot. The reason is because by doing that they are able monitor/control the temps using their specific m.2 drives they choose to use.
If they had installed it on the right(cooler) slot and the user intalled a hot m.2 ssd drive on the left(hot) slot, it could possibly thermal throttle and then perfom poorly or even below advertised, which could have cause ASUS to receive all sort of complains regarding that.
So it comes down to QA and (poor)design reasons.
Ok, I can take that reasoning, but it someone needs to verify that that's actually what's happening.
tbh I was kinda thinking the same thing. In the end he wasn't talking to the persons who designed it so I don't think too much about the emails. From what I can see though neither him nor Asus are technically wrong and they definitely cut some corners
I suspect an Intel engineer was involved in the design of this laptop and obviously sabotaged it to make intel looks cooler.
No pun intended?
I think AMD should make their own laptop that's the best solution for now
Can you imagine, if Apple has a processor like ryzen they would only use it their own MacBooks
From what I understand OEMS have laptop designs in house all designed around intel cpus going years back. Now that they are using amd stuff they "should" redesign the chassis around it however, that's not what happens. They don't want to invest in retooling costs so they cram AMD into an intel chassis. Hence, things don't line up perfectly or at all.
2020 tuf a15
engineer: we have design honey comb style air flow for maximum cooling.
marketing: no, cover 95% of the air flow.
2021 tuf a15
marketing: it's time to uncover the air flow and increase the price
engineer:
What happened to ASUS lmao, what a joke of a company they've become. They're being outpaced by all their competitors now.
People should buy nitro 5 2020 instead of buying this shit.
@@Cat_Cat_Catto mean while on the side of Acer.
Consumer: ryzen 4000 series is better
Acer: Nah i mah stick with intel, let give lower spec configuration to amd
Thor the nitro 5 amd version or the legion 5 amd version, it’s really worth considering.
@@edwlimjh1854 I addressed it shit because of its cooling system.Dumb ass.Nitro 5 2020 cooling system just literally raped this shit laptop.
As a sabertooth x79 user for 6 years, I would say no.
As the only company to come out with this much horsepower at this price... no.
It looks like a testing bench for a ROG laptop honestly.
Asus Reasoning: "It overheats the components a little, causing them to break down just a little bit faster. That means you buy another laptop from us sooner."
Did you not see in the video where the increased VRM temperature caused constant throttle spikes of their own? The author's response to this was "well the cpu throttling without the modification is slightly worse the VRM throttling, so my point still stands". That's just retarded.. you just replaced one throttling component with another by making this modification.. actually two, since the ssd now runs hot... and you've reduced their lifespans.. Can't believe people are eating this crap up because "hurr anti-corporation is automatically gud journalism!"
@@mysnackr yeah
@@mysnackr dude, the laptop is horrendously designed for thermals. don't try to justify Asus because HU tried to solve cpu 95C thermal throttling. Asus plain as day, shit the bed with this one. if I tried to justify a kick in the nuts for solving a headache that's one way to go about it. or you know, take the aspirine. Well, here's the thing, Asus chose to kick you in the nuts. good for you if you like getting your nuts kicked, I don't
@@mysnackr Leave aside for a moment the relative cost difference between the VRM and CPU... the comparison between throttling was not his main point, it's an aside.
His actual response was: why didn't you install a heat sink on the VRM? With the obvious answer being that it was probably fractions of a dollar cheaper per unit - a decision that means consumers are forced to accept shitty cooling.
I mean I don't buy into this mod (or a case redesign) by itself being a production ready solution. But one bloke and a Dremel and (I'm guessing) a day or two's worth of effort tops and we're, what, about three quarters of the way there? Asus' entire engineering team could and should have done better.
Even if they couldn't his point remains, it's clearly a poor cooling design overall and should be avoided.
@@xedwyn6244 But the VRMs weren't the only issue, and it's not only about thermals.
Staying to the thermals, take a look at high end professional Apple laptops. They constantly throttle and run hot, so badly that the performance is often very poor. And we're talking about laptops that cost upwards of 4 times what this laptop cost (I got a 2060 model at Best Buy for $899, and its performance destroys laptops 2x to 3x its cost).
I'm sure you or I could make a video and dremel-out some holes in an Apple laptop and bring CPU temperatures down a few degrees, but at what cost? Thermals, structural integrity, lifespan of all components, heat transfer through the keyboard, aesthetics, etc. Asus covers their laptops on warranty like all companies. I"m sure if they could have easily made this laptop run cooler they would have, as it would translate to savings in warranty repairs. Unless you're buying the "Intel conspiracy" theory it doesn't make much sense.
I understand bad designs can still happen, but this particular analysis is wrong and unfair.
I own an A15 and, the cooling fans are unfortunately failing on mine and I've had it for about a year. I'm curious now if modifying the base like you did would have prevented this.
Great video!
Could the reason for the increased VRM temperatures be due to higher power draw and clock speed?
You should set the clock speed manually to confirm if that's the reason for higher VRM temperatures.
I think it's definitely the case here, it looks like they deliberately make the hardware throttle enough just to make the VRM temperature did not exceed their considered "safe" limit, although i can see this problem solved by adding heatsink for the VRM which they didnt opted to do so. This is basically a bad internal design by looking at the cooling solution and M.2 slot placement and a bad product considered they categorize this laptop as a gaming laptop yet they used a panel with a mediocre response time.
Yet we can't complain much about it because they probably did this to make people opted for the ROG line up rather than settling with a TUF laptop because its better, a strange decision considering people tend to choose AMD rather than Intel machine these days.