SteamOS doesn't lock you down into Steam at all. Its just an atomic version of Arch Linux running the KDE desktop with Steam big picture mode enabled by default. Its completely open and other game stores work fine through launchers like Lutris, Heroic, and Bottles. Moreover, console emulation support is great on it too. Only thing missing is competitive multiplayer game compatibility because anti-cheat software tends not to work on Linux. SteamOS, or Linux-for-gaming distros like Bazzite or Nobara work great for all single player and non-competitive multiplayer gaming.
Also not entirely true, there's plenty of anti-cheat that works on Linux through Proton. If a game doesn't work through Proton, blame the game developer. Steam wants to support every game + anti-cheat. In my game library it's only Call of Duty that doesn't work.
Yeah just play games on Linux it already fucking works . Gaming on Linux already works great Bazzite already works so yeah its not like using steam os stops you from using something like Pop OS
@BlackJesus8463 My understanding is that "emulation" emulates the hardware. That's why you need a much beefier CPU for Dolphin/Wii emulation than the hardware in the Wii. Whereas my understanding is Wine/Proton on Linux/SteamOS take the DirectX calls that the game would pass to Windows and translate them to be understandable to the Linux system. So, you are not emulating any x86 hardware (the Steam Deck is x86 hardware). In fact, SteamOS is super, super frugal on RAM and other resources. So you get more of the hardware dedicated to the game that you are playing.
@@konstantinlozev2272 Yeah it does just take the API calls and translate them, usually into Vulkan in the case of graphics calls. In this way it's very similar to the Arc Alchemist drivers which do the same thing with DX9 and 11 because it was easier for intel to do that then build DX9 and 11 specific code from the ground up.
I swear, you gamers are getting dumber by the year. If Nvidia didn't want their cards to "age" well, then they would do a Apple and cut driver support as soon as possible. IE, what AMD did to their R9 300 series and R9 Fury.
The "problem" with other stores on SteamOS is kind of solved by a third party software called Heroic (which also has a Windows version). It combines multiple stores into one single software, like Epic, GoG, etc and allows you to run windows games on SteamOS just like Steam does with Proton. The biggest thing that holds down SteamOS or Linux overall is compatibility with some more niche gaming peripherals like racing wheels and pedals, VR, etc. For standard gaming, apart from the games locked with kernel level checks for anticheat, most of it is there.
@@dark666razorIf we wouldn't buy the GPUs, the companies would stop producing them and others would step in - perhaps with weaker but cheaper GPUs. Like Intel now.
Proton is not an emulation layer. It's a translation layer. The Windows game is running natively on Linux. When it's making Windows API calls like Win32, DirectX etc. the proton layer is answering those calls. It's a suite of replacement APIs that is the only thing running on the system. DirectX and Proton aren't both running. Only Proton is
What virtually all tech review channels don't seem to realize is how much chunkier graphics cards have gotten while you compare prices to what once was also excluding inflation. If judged by raw material alone you will find that prices are probably proportional if not favorable today. It is a matter of want that even supports such monstrosities (look at the chunkiness of the 4080 and 4090). What about the GTX 580 from many years ago? How do prices and matrial relate to that? What about even the GTX 1080 which was regarded as one of the best releases ever? These tech reviewers need a deep check.
The 30 and 40 series have been the worst selling on record. 30 series because they made less dies while using Samsung. 40 because they expected lower demand and they increased margins. They are banking on higher margins as people are waiting longer and longer between upgrades.
Tbf, gaming is slightly over 9% of their revenue at this point, and over the years the amount of money they're making there has been around the same. The gaming profits are even worse because their gaming hardware's profit margins are relatively slim. Their AI/datacentre business is booming tho, insane revenue and profits due to huge margins. So yeah, they don't particularly care about gaming, we're just lucky that for the most part what makes hardware good for AI also makes it good for gaming.
RTX 3000 series should have been selling incredibly well. They where only available for a very short time before selling out and prices skyrocketing. Prices did not get down to their launch price either after the crypto market crashed.
It's true. I'm one of them. If i want something, I don't look at the price or economy and politics behind it. I don't care. I mostly follow these videos to keep up with the tech capabilities and news about it. I'm pretty sure they target a consumer such as me.
As a desktop Linux user for ages, y'all being scaredy cats about using Linux sounds so insane to me. Just try it. It's really not that bad. What happens when you hold back is that you're having overly high expectations of what you want from an alternative OS that neither Linux meets or even your current Windows usage meets adequately, setting up your switch to Linux for failure. Not as important, but it also is a missed opportunity because you don't stretch your technical skills to see if you're even capable of using desktop Linux, which is doing your computer journey a disservice. Switching to Linux, for a PC enthusiast should be a bi-annual ritual, installing it on a system every few years, and daily driving for a while to see if it got better and to see how it changed. After a few times of doing it you'd be very comfortable switching or dual booting with Linux as your primary
Agreed. Anyone who can (re)install Windows, can also install any popular user friendly Linux distro. It's even easier without the privacy hassle Microsoft puts you through. Don't wait for "SteamOS". A good desktop experience will be had with other Linux distributions TODAY. I use Ubuntu. Linux Mint is also awesome.
I personally use, and can recommend for someone who is intimidated by linux, Mint. It's very familiar feeling to a windows user (but please do remember it's not windows and you WILL have to relearn certain ways of doing things, you can't just rely on "this works on windows so it must work here", be prepared to google and learn) and generally just works very well. I do think people who rely on an established windows workflow should perhaps try dual booting so that they still have windows for productivity while they learn the ropes in their off time with linux. The biggest problem in these youtube "linux challenges" imo is that they try to engage in complicated tasks like video editing day 1 of using a completely new operating system. They try to use it just like they've been using windows for decades, and become frustrated. It's like someone who's never touched a computer before booting into windows and immediately trying to make professional tier youtube videos. Of course it's going to be a mess.
@@KLIPPANLAN I went with PopOS! two times already, but I went back to Ubuntu. It just feels more mature in my very subjective experience. Also went with other distros, tried Debian, Fedora, Mint, Arch and NixOS. Still found my way back to Ubuntu. Lol. A lot of people hate me for that.
@@yt-mull0rUbuntu would be fine if not for snaps. I recommend KDE Fedora since its very close to what Steam OS is gonna be, while being up to date and stable. Bazzite is also there to double down on Steam OSisms
-what happens with people that bought games on other stores? -well, at the end of the day steam OS is linux, so they have two option: A- do nothing and let their clients install their stores with lutris like they do now B- develop a flatpak version of the store and use proton/wine (which are both open source) for compatibility.
Have you used Steam OS? It's a distro of Arch linux, it's not locked in to Steam. If you can run a piece of software on linux you can run it on SteamOS. That being said, steam is basically the superior option for gaming on linux. Proton being their own software and fully integrated into the application and all. The competitors could put some money into also supporting these systems so people don't have to rely on things like Lutris, but if they don't it's a choice they are making, not steam being restrictive.
@monki_sudo I'm playing the third playthorugh of Baldur's Gate on the Steam Deck so yes? We take up about 5% of the market, we're not common but not that rare.
@monki_sudo I'm not sure what your point is. I was being positive about gaming on steam on linux. The other platforms still have some work to do to catch up to how seamlessly steam have integrated it, and it's up to them to do that, not valve. I run linux Mint and with few exceptions games work fantastically with little effort through steam. I also have a steam deck, though I don't use desktop mode there a whole lot because I have a desktop.
Really who can make a good deal with Samsung's fabs on a previous tier node. Surely Samsung's previous gen nodes can be used cheaply? 5LPP and 5LPE should be cheap enough to make decent die sizes affordable for AMD and especially Intel who burned bridges with TSMC.
Timestamps : 00:00 Intro 00:40 Sponsor 1:43 Will there be higher-end Battlemage GPU's and when? 7:00 Will Battlemage GPU's be a concern for AMD and Nvidia? 11:40 Thoughts on claims that intel is losing money on B580? 20:07 Thoughts on SteamOS replacing Windows for PC gaming? 26:51 Thoughts on Path Tracing in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle? 42:06 Most overhyped motherboard feature?
@@dragonmares59110 Well we aren't talking about AMD here. But yeah AMD will likely do the usual shit of releasing too high rpiced, getting rekt in reviews for it and then quietly drop the price 2 months later when suprise suprise it doesn't sell.
No no no. Why wait for SteamOS??? Just hop on board Linux now then. SteamOS is just another Linux distro. It won't magically fix the few games not running, honestly, that's up to game devs!! But there's thousands and thousands of games just running from Steam alone. But you can also play non steam games on Linux. For now, SteamOS seems to be focusing on the handheld experience first. If you want a great desktop experience, go for an established Linux distro today and install Steam (and maybe the Heroic launcher and Lutris). And you're good to go. I am exclusively gaming on Linux and I don't see why people wait for SteamOS So bring it on and go for it man. Try it on another drive.
@@Jacko_486 This is an utterly inane comment, too delusional even for a troll. Ever heard of keyboard and mouse? Yes? There are whole genres of games that aren't even available on PS5, and never will be. Thousands of games.
I really dont want to be that guy but the translation layer used by steam is called proton which is based on WINE which explicitly says (Wine Is Not an Emulator) Rather its a translation layer
SteamOS IS Linux, there is nothing special about SteamOS necessarily over just using a linux distribution. The special sauce is the Proton compatibility layer. Give Linux a try!
@@haukikannel yeah, fucking 800 bucks midrange GPU with not enough VRAM to last 4 years (2 gens) which most people aim for. What a fucking time to be alive. At this point, I'm thinking to even quit AAA gaming altogether, because there's just so few great AAA games I'm willing to play that the costs of HW investments per game played got way too high (I play like 1-2 AAA games a year in recent years)
"the emulation is getting better" It's in the name "Wine Is Not Emulation" it's a compatibility layer that directly maps foreign calls to native APIs (whenever possible)
"Windows brings its game compatibility!" WRONG. But the BELIEF that they do being so commonplace and yet contrary to fact, is WHY we don't have either windows competitors OR backward compatibility with games. Heck, the SMB team in Windows OS had to get explanations from the SAMBA group that makes an Open Source replacement for Linux of the SMB protocol as to how it worked, because they, the windows team, didn't know how their SMB protocol worked. Try playing Max Payne, the first one, on Windows. Won't work. Try playing, ooh, say, Praetorian. Won't work. SCADS of games just plain won't work, even though Windows 10 claims "Run under WinXP compatibility mode" for them, because the stuff required just isn't in the OS any more. As a replacement that transcodes from Windows calls to Linux calls, WINE DOES run those games. GoG will also ship modifications to some games or a DOS emulation with their games that are older windows games BECAUSE Windows refuses to work on them. But Tim goes and believes, honestly I feel, and with his whole heart that, despite all facts against it, Windows has backward game compatibility, because he only plays Win7 games using DX8 or 9, and not DX8 Win98 games, so has no clue what backward compatibility windows fails to have, and just believes that since some new games work and some recent games work, then Windows is "better than Linux".
@@OriginalMergatroid It is indeed wrong though. It didn't "bring" compatibility, games are simply made to run on Windows because of its market dominance. Why would game studios make games for other platforms that has way lesser shares? It is no brainer.. Linux is the one trying to "bring" compatibility by making DX games run on Vulkan and OpenGL. The Linux segment of the video is truly an uneducated opinion.
I always remember the late Gordon Mah Ung saying the internet would piss and moan but still end up buying Nvidia which led to the current state of GPU market with Nvidia releasing overpriced GPU while AMD at half-raised white flag.
AMD gpu's are just not an option. They are so bad. If there was an viable competitive gpu I would buy it. But there is not. Current gen gaming requires upscaling for high resolution gaming, and FSR is complete garbage.
@@DrMicoco I mean, you could just take him apart with arguments instead of going full ad hominem. There are reasons other than brand loyalty why people keep buying Nvidia. He pointed to some of those reasons. Before you ad hominem me too: yes, I own a 4080 and I made the conscious decision to pick it over a 7900XTX because I care about ray tracing and the better upscaler.
Steam OS doesnt keep you from playing other platforms its linux, extremely stupid ceos do because they think game piracy is easier on open platforms like linux so they add drm
In Europe, the B580 is pretty easy to find. Most resellers have in stock. The problem is the price in Europe is more expensive then the RX7600 and the RTX4060 (around 20%) and most of the time it is as expensive as a RX7600XT with 16GB, for similar performance. The $250 price tag seems to be for US only intel card.
I dont even think an "US-thing". I think it is a "few" selected cards. it is like gatcha. You can get it or not. You will most likely find it for much higher prices. And is not scalping if the scalper is Intel itself.
@@rundown132 Yes, we can blame companies all day, but the real culprits are the people who enable this behavior.😂 to try and change that is an impossible task.
@@brokemono Calling that an "impossible task" is itself enabling and reinforcing bad behaviour. Why should people try anything different if it's "impossible"? Stop being a doomer enabler.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat it's not really about the competition being dogshit, like being fr most of AMD's gpu have nice value over Nvidia ones within the low end and mid range. The ultra high end it's not the majority so you would think AMD or Intel would be having a better time on the lower price market and therefore being more competitive, but it's insane how many people are scared of amd gpus because of driver issues that don't happen, and also you would be suprised how many people don't even know AMD sells gpus, or do know but don't even consider it because they want nvidia. The biggest customer they have are kids who probably don't know anything about pcs, and if you asked a kid what would he rather choose between a 4060 and a 7900XTX, do you really think he would choose the XTX?
That would actually have the opposite effect, these companies are charging the money they do to meet margins, every company has a target and will try hard to meet those targets, if People buy less, especially on an immediate basis, overstock will likely reduce in price temporarily, then production volume for next year decreases and all of a sudden prices are higher than they ever were, the reason prices have been rising souch since COVID is behaviour like this, COVID in particular saw a huge increase in the purchase of luxury goods and services, every market sector like the one this video details saw an increase in spending, people had less outgoings (lunch out, days out etc) and so a larger than usual surplus, prices were high for shortages but the economic state of countries meant huge cash surplus which came from essentially redirected money from services like leisure, food, and entertainment. While greed is certainly a factor, all that's really happening is someone's boss wants to please their boss, and they want to please theirs, and so on, that's why profit margins are high and low yield products are being produced, nobody would buy a gpu that barely improves over last generation, but also doesn't want to pay the fee for incredibly difficult processes
@@fewik8567 Capitalism is based on a simple theory of supply and demand. Demand dictates the price of the supply. That is the end of the story. Been seeing a lot of people inferring it doesn't matter whether you buy something or not. I can assure you, as someone who previously worked in retail for 20 years, it does.
They won't. For starters, most of the profits from NVIDIA come from Enterprise purchases. Then there is the fact that "just don't buy" isn't an option for workstation users, as it's not so much of a purchase as it is a necessary investment in your work. The prices aren't going to go down until the bubble bursts.
Im not sure about this. Nvidia are already making so much money off datacenters for Ai and other things that losing that small fraction of revenue from the commercial/gaming market wouldnt affect their bottom line. They'll still make a profit from the people still buying their cards though. But as the situation goes. When it comes to super or ultra-high-end GPus. There is only player in that market and its not AMD or Intel. Where else are these customers going to go if not Nvidia? I think it has to take AMD or Intel gaining a big amount of marketshare before Nvidia starts thinking about lifting a finger. Because Then its clear that people are actively boycotting or shunning their cards.
I’m grateful for the GPUs I already have. I’m not being fooled into upgrading just to play new unoptimized games that will eventually be patched to work with older GPUs. I can understand if you’re an enthusiast, or a streamer/tester/video editor, etc. making money with the newer GPUs but most people don’t need to spend more than $300 to $400 on a GPU to have a good experience.
Fair, I have a 7800xt cuz it is an absolute must for me to run all games at my 1440p monitors resolution and games like ark ascended need it. I wouldn't have upgraded anytime soon but my gf is building her first pc and I kinda wanna help her with the cost so she'll get my GPU for cheap and I'll buy a 9070xt probs
@@cliffordjohnson943 is 1440p considered "enthusiast" ? your logic that people shouldnt spend more than 400$ on a gpu when 1440p has become the mainstream and people just wanna have a good smooth gpu is just dumb
@@Eleganttf2 I think he was talking about the price of a 49" super ultra wide monitor. I looked and it range between 800 to 1000 $, it may be 1440p but it's still enthusiast stuff, and i guess someone who put that amount of money on a monitor put the same amount in a graphic card as a minimum (an investment in monitor is the best thing to do IMO, you keep it years) edit : it even go as expensive as 1900 $ for the top of the line monitor...
We can't have lower prices hardware or feature complete games because people are dumb. Preorders, massive microtransaction purchases, we know what would be good. Companies are greedy and we're rolling over and paying too much for too little.
I think mobile gaming has had a lot to do with the "sheepification" of the population. There's people who've grown up knowing nothing about games and think you have to spend money in them to do anything.
Nvidia...no CHANCE nvidia will lower. i am expecting nvidia 5080/5090 to have no competition from AMD as their only top end is just a 9070. Prices will be completely cooked, and for Australians..its going to be horrible
@@ZomgZomg007waste of screen presses tht comment. Best bag for buck is AMD, but people like to be brand fanatics cause they dont like to admit their lovely brand is bad.... ohh well...
Find it hilarious people claim to know intels exact profit margin when there’s people who worked on literally designing the architecture or the software stack that wouldn’t have access to that information
There are multiple profit margins anyway, depending on whether you look at just the costs of the hardware versus the income, or also look at the R&D, marketing and other costs. And with many of these extra costs, it's a choice how to calculate the costs. For example, to what extent do the Arc R&D costs get attributed to the CPUs versus the GPUs is a choice.
There is nobody that claim to know the exact profit margin. There are some that claim Intel is not making any money from it or selling it at a loss. And no, this is not using some insider information but just common sense. B580 is relatively big for the price (272mm2). It is using TSMC 5nm, thus they can't simply cut the foundry margin to make the product cheaper. It also has 12GB of VRAM. Compare that with RX 6600 that is 237mm2, using TSMC 7nm, and has 8GB VRAM. This is using a lower bin chip and right now you can get it at $200. I'm using RX 6600 because it is likely that the margin for this product is low because it is an older product and they probably want to clear it (but not to the point of taking a loss just to clear it). Thus based on this and also other product pricing, it is more likely to say that Intel is either selling it at cost or a loss vs saying that Intel is making money for every B580 sold. The fact that Intel rep can't confidently say that the GPU is making money also support this idea.
Arc is made in TSMC. So if you see the die size of the B580, intel is giving you an amount of silicon closely similar to a 4070Ti for a price below of the 4060, in the same node, and giving you 50% more Vram (fairly common 18Gbps GDDR6). Only with *that,* you don't need a PhD to know they're doing almost 0 money and why the big companies (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte) have shown ZERO interest in making Arc cards, even when Battlemage is being praised by everyone and selling out everywhere.
@@Just_An_Ignaciomy understanding is that it has gotten more and more expensive to make GPUs, especially over the past 7 years or so. Long gone are the days of huge generational leaps pending some sort of huge breakthrough. You can tell from how much more time there is between new GPU generations. A trade war with china doesn’t help, but at least the fabs are in Taiwan. Unfortunately TSMC has an effective monopoly on GPU production because they have the best fabs and the staff to run them. It’s just kind of what it is at this point. Prices are just going to be higher. Is that fair to me? Not really, but I don’t have to buy a GPU if I don’t want to I hope crypto goes away forever and the AI craze dies down so that maybe, just maybe, things can go back to normal
Its not an exact profit margin. Intel has already made it clear that they are not making money. That means the profit margin is not enough to offset development costs. We also have an approximate idea of the profit margins from AMD and NVidia (somewhere in the order of 40% and 60% respectively. Given the size of the die and the node used and the price you can make a reasonable guess as to where the profit margin sits. It could potentially be negative or it could be at cost or it could be somewhat positive. I think if the profit margin was positive, intel would have an incentive to allocate more waifers and expand supply, but they clearly haven't, like AMD is doing with the 9800x3D. You can see from the volume of sales that intel is pushing more supply out. So if the profit margin is positive its not positive enough.
SteamOS does have a normal desktop environment not just Big Picture mode, and games from other stores can be played through Linux apps like Lutris or Heroic Games Launcher since SteamOS is just a Linux distro.
@@tanmaypanadi1414Nvidia drivers have been improved big time. Nvidia is working on it. But also the open source driver for Nvidia is improving. But AMD/Intel are a little better for the out of the box experience. Anti cheat is figured out already. It's the game developers not working along. Proton is ready for it.
@@sirius4k genuinely not. I have not dual booted for long in quite a while. And when there's been issues, I've always had the ability to boot on the main and reinstall a Grub2 or else. Seems like it's gotten worse.
@@mickaelsflow6774 Well, it's not like you hadn't had an opportunity to repair these cases either, because you will have now a single-boot Windows system. It's just MS releases a crappy update and oopsie daisy, sorry! To be clear, it's not with every update... because it has to be a surprise. And you spend your time now repairing the mess, depending on your skill. You might just install everything again, because you don't know how to repair it or just go without Windows this time.
Tim and Steve are such a weird duo... Here they are once again whining about how they would "love" to have a competitor for Windows in the gaming space, whilst only few months ago in one of their Q&A videos repeating ignorant things about Linux and why they don't wanna test games on it... There will never be a competitor for Windows if you refuse to benchmark and spread the word about the existence of these alternatives, and I'm saying this as someone who is using 3 different operating systems daily! (those being Windows, Mac and Linux)
Yesn't, Gaming is a hobby and people tend to spend a lot on their hobbies, especially in first world countries, and gaming is a relatively cheap hobby as compared to cars, bikes, horses, photography and so on. It doesn't make sense price to performance wise, but neither does a BMW M3, high-end camera, or a race horse. I think it's a reality we won't get away from 😓
How can we make benchmarking even more taxing for Steve? We introduce 40 games on Linux benchmarks! =P I do look forward to SteamOS to start getting traction on PC desktop as well. On handheld is Linux has succeeded with SteamOS and the opening up with "Powered by SteamOS" might help making Linux it even more viable OS for gaming and open up for desktop.
Its just a huge risk as the competition is selling cards with massive profit margins so they could just drop prices to undercut you and Intel would have no case in claims competition is selling cards at a loss.
@@BlackJesus8463 Because not everything is on Steam, sometimes stuff is cheaper elsewhere, and in general being locked in to one Store sucks so it's important that the possibility exists, if only as a "just in case" kinda thing
NVidia and AMD (and Intel) are going to focus on the GPU compute not the GPU gaming market. Gamers will get the attention that these companies can afford to take away from their GPU compute pushes, nothing more.
AMD and Intel don't have a chance of competing in the server and workstation market. NVIDIA already has an established ecosystem, no company is going to opt for something other than the standard.
@@pedrolantyer Pretty much. At this point if you need performance you go Nvidia. The only reason to go AMD or Intel now is price and the products they offer are so inferior to Nvidia that they are not even worth it seeing how overpriced AMD is selling their GPUs
@@pedrolantyer some high profile tech companies including microsoft and IBM use AMD's MI300X in at least some of their clouds and a bunch of smaller AI businesses also use their cards. While their marketshare isn't great, 10% datacenter market share also isn't nothing (and it's going up instead of just staying steady or going down like what's happening in their gaming platform)
Jensen and Lisa are family. I don't get fanboys when both CEO can go to family dinners and laugh at you. Your opinion on AMD being better price to performance are irrelevant to them. Edit: Nevermind wrong thread but still valid tho.
I’m not upgrading from my 2080 anytime soon. Instead I would take the money that I would’ve spent on a new, high end pc and monitor and I’d buy a PS5 Pro, Series X, Switch, a couple of controllers for each and a high end 77” OLED. On top of that, I’d take the additional money I’d save and pay some bills, get some KFC and pay my rent.
People were using AMD to lower Nvidia's prices. When everyone got wise to that, now they hope that Intel will do the same. They will talk good about Intel only to buy cheaper Nvidia. Gamers deserve what they get. Like seriously, stop being such a spineless mouth breather. If someone sells something you don't like, DON"T BUY IT. How hard that can be? You have alternatives, it is not a monopoly...
It's a monopoly, regulators just won't step in because it's tech. If this crap was happening in China we'd be furious (although the prices would probably still be lower).
@@REgamesplayer "Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power - that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors." - FTC
Valve releasing steamOS might be the best thing for gamers, not because it’ll replace windows. But due to it’ll give Microsoft a competitor to step up their game optimizations of windows.
What people call path tracing in games is various different implementations with different limitations, so these modes cannot be directly compared between games. If you want true raw path tracing download Blender (cycles) or UE5 editor. Not even 4090 can handle it without giant amounts of noise for scenes with decent materials.
I find it interesting that people are attacking the B580 die size. Oh, they are losing money on every card because of the HUGE die size. I think a lot of these folks just want to attack the card, and since Intel finally made a generally good card, it's hard to find something to criticize, so they attack the die size, even though it's much smaller than it was on the A series. Sure, Nvidia has a pretty small die size below the 4070 tier, but 272 isn't extreme. The 6700 XT, which the B580 now frequently gets compared to, had a larger die at 335.
MASSIVE EXTREMELY LARGE 272 square millimeters meanwhile, ten years ago: GTX 970, 3.5 GB (totally 4 GB guys :DD) for 330 USD -- 398 mm² R9 390, 8 GB for 330 USD -- 438 mm² I guess the cost of silicon has quadrupled or something, lol?
It's completely okay to say "I don't have enough knowledge and/or experience with this, so I can't give my opinion on this," this would prevent blatant misinformation and increases trust with your audience.
To add on that: The overall feel and experience of it is pretty similar to Windows and easy to get into if you come from Windows. Non-Steam games work well too and tools like Lutris (has any game that's been submitted) and Heroic (EGS for Linux) make it easy to install and play them. For anyone curious to give it a try, most Linux distros allow you to try them from the installation flash drive directly, without installing anything. Kubuntu would be a good distro for that, or Linux Mint if you don't mind a slightly different desktop environment.
I was absolutely shocked when I loaded up Indiana Jones on my founders RTX 3080 10GB, and tried the high preset on 1080p, and it warned me that I did not have enough vram. Thankfully only needed to change a couple of settings to remove the warning, and it ran the game comfortably between 60-80 fps. Frame generation completely sucks, it just feels like your mouse is disconnected from your movement, sort of like cloud gaming.
I am using Ubuntu exclusively. No more Windows here. What are you waiting for exactly? Just hop on a popular beginner friendly distro like Ubuntu or Linux Mint, install Steam and play. And if you need other game launchers: use Lutris and Heroic. What do you mean by reliably? And is Windows reliable?
Great video, could you guys please add in the chapter marks next time so that it’s easier to navigate to the relevant questions that some may be interested in Thanks
Intel made a good move by releasing the B580 GPU at that price, I may consider buying it just to support them, the last time I purchased an Intel product was a long time ago, but now they deserve the support because they are trying now at least in the GPU market
I bought the A770 years back just to tinker with. Zero regrets. Solid card, plenty of VRAM, plus AV1 encoding. Makes for a perfect add-in or secondary rig adapter. The B580 is likely in that same vein, but a bit better.
People are saying that Intel is taking a loss on the B580 because it's kinda unthinkable even with how greedy Nvidia is that a 4070Ti costs 700-800 dollars which has almost the same size gpu die and the same vram and yet Intel can make money by selling the B580 for 250. That's such a huge difference it just doesn't make sense as the most expensive part on a gpu is the die itself. (even if its possibly true) Also the Intel guy during the interview explicitly said that Battlemage is "invaluable" for their iGPU and APU development so it could be the case that they don't even care about desktop GPUs so the profitability of Battlemage is irrelevant to them but they are using it for R&D which is the real beneficiary
I agree I think intel wants in on AI chips and that seemingly bottomless money pile. It turns out that discrete GPUs for running video games are good at AI
Intel GPU deparment reprentative did say in Gamer Nexus interview that they don`t make money with battlemage… so no… They do produce some b580 and b570 mainly for developing drivers… so again no…
@@haukikannel I don't think anyone is questioning that battlemage is a net loss. What people are questioning is whether the card costs more than $250 to manufacturer leading to intel wanting to make as few as possible.
Regarding steamOS, they are not emulating, they are translating. Emulation would occurred on macOS arm or windows arm systems. Other game providers, not steam, can be played on the steam deck by going to the desktop on steamOS and installing lutris which downloads what you need for the games you want to play. Like 3rd party launchers and dependencies, same with heroic game launcher. So those are not really an issue at all. The only real issue on Linux gaming is anticheat games. Even tho Linux supports anti cheat game makes are not wanting to enable it.
I think a plausible theory is that Intel has already paid for producing their cards, so by selling them at a loss they still get more than $0 to offset the production costs.
No loss at all @$250 there is only one card on the market that would take a loss the 4090 by about $30 , but even then they have to double the 4090's price due to giving 1 free with everyone sold to streamers/influencers/YTbers etc
Intel bought the fab capacity and sat on it for 4 ish year. it was already paid for during bob swan's tenure. i think the TSMC contract was about to expire so they had to use it for something.
From what remember reading somewhere. during bob swan's tenure. the theory was the management didn't respect him enough as a bean counter. so he tried to introduce competition by introducing the threat of Intel manufacturing will move to TSMC.
@@jurgengalke8127 There is no way a 4090 cost only $280 to make, it has a massive heatsink and shroud, has huge PCB and uses massive amount of RAM. Couple that with design, labor, shipping and manufacturing cost, the total cost is definitely way higher than that. Same for B580, it uses the same node as 4060Ti, but has bigger die size and more RAM. Of course there's also labor, shipping and retailer middleman cost. Another tell sign is that TSMC 5nm is such an old node, for Intel to have such low volume means it might not be that profitable after all.
Admittedly I'm comfortable with using Linux, far from an expert by any means but I've recently made the switch on my main pc to exclusively running Linux, and Proton is the entire reason I've been able to do so. The way I run my games now is if it's a gog game I use playonlinux to run the installer, and then point steam to launch the game through Proton and it's been flawless so far. It's almost there, and I think by the time windows 10 support ends I'll be able to fully move our lass over to Linux as well, especially if Steam OS for desktop launches in the interim, and finally be rid of windows completely.
Nvidia will adjust prices with the Super cards a year later. They're going to take advantage with the early adapters. It'll be the same as the 40 cards.
No, Steve, you can't reasonably draw the same conclusions for the 9800X3D as it literally sits at the top of the Amazon bestselling CPU list. The 9800X3D has to have both the supply and the demand to be there. On the other hand, not a single model of B580 shows up on Amazon top 100 bestselling graphics card list, so either there isn't the supply, the demand, or both for it to be there (remember that we don't even know if the B580 is in the top 10,000, since the list only goes to 100). It's pretty disingenuous to compare the two.
That's a fair point. It's at 17 for the reference model and 33 for the sparkle model in Amazon jp, but nowhere on the US site. I wonder how they've distributed them.
If/ when Intel cards start getting good, you can be sure they are going to start charging higher prices too. Their CPU prices are a prime example that Intel is just as greedy as the competition IF they can be
Man… rarely do I truly catch the accents as hard as I did in this video, especially in the beginning… sooooo many “Don’t knaurs” and I absolutely loved it 😅
People still forget how small NVIDIA's part in consumer GPUs is compared to enterprise. I believe it's more probable for NVIDIA leaving consumer GPU area completely before coming back to “reasonable” prices.
As soon as Pathtracing becomes a standard render pipeline for games in the future every currently existing GPU will absolutely suck compared to the first generation of Pathtracing dedicated hardware. There is no point in buying a GPU today with consideration for pathtracing performance in the future.
My takeaway confirms my bias: VRAM matters more than any fancy photo filters (ray tracing, path tracing, water Physics, etc). To make a game actually look good, you need high quality textures. This is step 1. Everything else comes second and you should budget your $$$ accordingly.
What matter the most is the computing power, VRAM is just one of the many bottleneck we can encounter. More VRAM doesn't lead to more FPS, more VRAM is like good tires on your car, it will help the engine reach it's peak performance by adding good traction to the asphalt but if you want to go from 120 fps to 240 you need a better processing power. We are actually in a bad spot because the need for VRAM seem to go way higher than before with video game trying to charge lossless textures like it's a fuckin Skyrim mod list and the GPU doesn't scale too well with that.
Other than the 1080ti a card lasting that long and still being viable is pretty much unheard of. Back in the day you had to upgrade every 2 to 3 years.
Love the 1080Ti for value, but you got to adjust for inflation at least. It was $900 in today's money. Obviously the performance isn't comparable to price now with technology having improved, but the fact that it's still a viable GPU carries a lot of opportunity cost over ~8 years.
25:09 This is actually not that big of a problem at this point. You can easily download Lutris and Heroic Game Launcher, and they even have a button to add games to steam. You can also access your Epic Games games easily in steam OS on the steam deck once you have Decky and Junk Store installed I get, that you first need to install those things to access all of that, but at the same time I think you kinda need to do that and more either way on Windows. Although I also wish for an easier implementation But all of this already allowed me to have more non Steam games installed on my steam deck, some GOG, some Epic, some other, compared to Steam games. Even something like Genshin Impact or Minecraft Java and can play them without going into desktop mode Edit: my personal problem with some Linux distros is managing of access for Apps. A normal user doesn't want to install Flatseal and put a specific folder for every app. They just want it to work. Same for auto mounting a drive, I had some problems, that were easy to fix, and if a Program would use UI for that, I think it would be enough
I do believe AMD might need to lower prices to keep their market share (if they actually will is a different question) Though Nvidia won't do anything. They don't need to lower prices because people keep buying either for the prestige of having an nvidia card or because they need cuda for something work related. (While ROCm works it often just isn't an option if all of your software is already written in cuda)
AMD has been lowering the prices for years (it's not rare to find their models with a good discount just a few months after release). They actually adjust to the market and so does Nvidia, the issue is the market is telling Nvidia they can get away with anything.
Issue with AMD is MSRP. They always without mistake undercut Nvidia by 5% which is a huge mistake since their products don’t compete with Nvidia at similar price ranges. They should be better priced to compete.
@@themarketgardeneryeah, if they priced the MSRP at the prices the market will accept they'd get so much goodwill from consumers and probably sell more. I don't know if they believe selling the first batches on a premium is worth the poor reception or what, but their market share is evaporating and they need to do something about it.
Overpricing their cards at launch and then cutting the price 3 months later is not adjusting to the market, it's either seeing if they can get away with that price or it's trying to milk their dedicated fans who will buy the new product day 1 regardless of price.
Some phones are able to send 3.5mm analog signals through the USB jack for either a passive adapter or analog headphones, so it wouldn't surprise me if some people do think PCs could do the same
Intel needs to focus on the area where people buy cards, namely competition with the Nvidia 60 and 60ti (4060/5060). This is where a lot more sales can happen, and with Intel already showing just how good the B580 is against the 4060, if Nvidia does another shit 60 card (4060 worse than 3060) then Intel really has a chance to make some serious sales.
Sorry but i dont beleive the BS you are talking about "omg windows so bad", but your content is 100% based on windows and if it wasn't your channel wouldnt have gotten this popular. But please, If you want change then start with THIS channel doing benchmarks/Testing on linux/Other OS First and then side note windows since you detest it so much. Talk is cheap, show us action guys, linux is free.
I wonder what the pricing model of full-on desktop SteamOS would be? It’s free for handhelds because Valve has an incentive to get the entire handheld market on Steam, but that’s less true for an open desktop experience. I wouldn’t mind paying for a desktop SteamOS if it offers a compelling experience.
The only one with whom Intel competes is AMD, not Nvidia. Not because of the strength of the card but because of the Nvidia brand. The best Intel can hope for in following years is to drag AMD down and Nvidia will laugh all the way to the bank.
Regarding overhyped GPU release mechanism: I think Steve is forgetting users with bigger CPU air coolers. If I wanted to get the GPU out of my last 2 PCs I needed a long stick/screwdriver/pencil to release the GPU without removing the cooler, which always made me anxious about damaging the board. That's why I am really happy about the quick release button on my latest motherboard. Sure, I don't remove the GPU very often, but especially in the building phase I had to do it at least 2 or 3 times in the past. And it was always a pain to do so.. Hope you have a good new year (couldn't find a translation for hour "Guten Rutsch ins neue Jahr" :) )
I just posted the same thing. The standard PCI-e release mechanism is terrible. If you have a GPU with a thick back plate and a large air cooler, it is extremely difficult to get it to release. There's very little of the lever available to push on and you have to reach down the thin channel between the cooler and the GPU. I for one appreciate better release mechanisms that aren't such a pain to operate.
Given they can use the silicone alternatively in data center and AI positions at higher profit margins, there is little pressure for them to sell consumer gpus at lower prices. It sucks but that’s where we are at.
AMD should absolutely worry because people are getting tired of their incompetence , I've been testing A770 for 2 weeks and its actually been quite a good experience , the drivers are a little bare vs AMD's drivers but all the games I play do work on the card
If y'all stop believing that you MUST upgrade/replace your GPU every year or two, then the prices will come down. "Muh favorite TH-cam tech channels said this new GPU will give me 5 more frames per second!" or "Muh ray tracing!".... "My eyes won't notice....but...MUST BUY!"
Upgrading every 2 years makes more sense than dealing with all of the issues that come with running new games on old hardware. Its not even expensive if you buy high end and sell your old GPU. High end GPU's hold value. Especially in a generation like this one, a 4080 for example will easily sell for ~$900+ used right now.
@@Dempig What issues? Surely the majority is "not enough VRAM," and people keep their GPUs way longer than that so I can't imagine it's a cornucopia of problems.
Them: "10% more perfomance improvement because I went from 3090 to 4090 for another loss of my kidney. HELL YEAH!!! I like keep scamming myself!!" Meanwhile, soon I am upgrading from my 1660 Ti to a 5070 Ti with a 300% performance increase. LOL
@@dingickso4098 What? The difference between a 3090 and a 4090 is much larger than 10% lol, and if they sold the 3090 before buying the 4090 they would have spent less than you did for a much much better upgrade
@@nimrodery Performance issues of all kinds whether it be from lack of power, vram, poor upscaling in AMDs case, whatever the reason. A mid range GPU from the 30 series is potato tier today for current gen games.
Awesome videos! I do use the onboard audio on motherboards, and I appreciate it being good without too much distortion, but I don't think in-depth testing of it is worthwhile in reviews. The VRM temperatures and knowing if a board can handle the high end processors with more cores are way more important to me. Thumbs up.
After this video, Nvidia has made the difficult decision to raise prices again.
😆
Yeah... NVIDIA and AMD got knockout this time...
It's so sad, honestly if it makes nvidia happy I'd glady accept a 200% price increase.
they love raising the prices
🤣
SteamOS doesn't lock you down into Steam at all. Its just an atomic version of Arch Linux running the KDE desktop with Steam big picture mode enabled by default. Its completely open and other game stores work fine through launchers like Lutris, Heroic, and Bottles. Moreover, console emulation support is great on it too. Only thing missing is competitive multiplayer game compatibility because anti-cheat software tends not to work on Linux. SteamOS, or Linux-for-gaming distros like Bazzite or Nobara work great for all single player and non-competitive multiplayer gaming.
Also not entirely true, there's plenty of anti-cheat that works on Linux through Proton. If a game doesn't work through Proton, blame the game developer. Steam wants to support every game + anti-cheat.
In my game library it's only Call of Duty that doesn't work.
Only kernel level anticheat doesn't work. And that shouldn't be used anyway.
@@loki555 Some kernel anti cheats do work (albeit they work in userspace). It's all down to developers. Helldivers 2 is one example.
Yeah just play games on Linux it already fucking works . Gaming on Linux already works great Bazzite already works so yeah its not like using steam os stops you from using something like Pop OS
@@Kropek13 They work by basically turning themselves off.
Steam Deck and Steam OS is not emulation. It's translation layer. And it works surprisingly well in terms of performance and battery life.
whats the difference?
@BlackJesus8463 My understanding is that "emulation" emulates the hardware. That's why you need a much beefier CPU for Dolphin/Wii emulation than the hardware in the Wii. Whereas my understanding is Wine/Proton on Linux/SteamOS take the DirectX calls that the game would pass to Windows and translate them to be understandable to the Linux system. So, you are not emulating any x86 hardware (the Steam Deck is x86 hardware). In fact, SteamOS is super, super frugal on RAM and other resources. So you get more of the hardware dedicated to the game that you are playing.
@@konstantinlozev2272 oh ok thanks
@@konstantinlozev2272 Yeah it does just take the API calls and translate them, usually into Vulkan in the case of graphics calls. In this way it's very similar to the Arc Alchemist drivers which do the same thing with DX9 and 11 because it was easier for intel to do that then build DX9 and 11 specific code from the ground up.
@@kettlesownchannelfinally2539this is the exact correct answer
I don't think Nvidia wants their cards "aging well".This is not part of their business plan.
They don’t want another 1080ti situation again. That gpu was the best performance for $ ever released from nvidia
same with the 3060 12gb
I swear, you gamers are getting dumber by the year.
If Nvidia didn't want their cards to "age" well, then they would do a Apple and cut driver support as soon as possible.
IE, what AMD did to their R9 300 series and R9 Fury.
When I buy hardware, price don't matter. Instead it matters are they aging well.
I still have a 1060ti that i got like 5 years ago, now looking to upgrade The whole system.
So you are saying that The new gpu's won't last as long?
The "problem" with other stores on SteamOS is kind of solved by a third party software called Heroic (which also has a Windows version). It combines multiple stores into one single software, like Epic, GoG, etc and allows you to run windows games on SteamOS just like Steam does with Proton.
The biggest thing that holds down SteamOS or Linux overall is compatibility with some more niche gaming peripherals like racing wheels and pedals, VR, etc. For standard gaming, apart from the games locked with kernel level checks for anticheat, most of it is there.
I came here to mention Heroic...
Nobody is lowering anything as long as people still buy them
Its not people like you or me that are making them billions. Its datacenters.
@@dark666razorIf we wouldn't buy the GPUs, the companies would stop producing them and others would step in - perhaps with weaker but cheaper GPUs. Like Intel now.
@@pelle7771 Like amd has been doing for a decade? :P Datacenters buy them by the pallet.
No, they won't lower it until demand lowers. It's called demand and supply.
And people will buy because what, you just not gonna play new games?
That sucks. Guess we had better save up for another leather jacket.
Proton is not an emulation layer. It's a translation layer. The Windows game is running natively on Linux. When it's making Windows API calls like Win32, DirectX etc. the proton layer is answering those calls. It's a suite of replacement APIs that is the only thing running on the system. DirectX and Proton aren't both running. Only Proton is
Should Nvidia lower GPU prices? Yes
Will Nvidia lower GPU prices? No
because there on monopoly if I are nvidia I would lower the price to $1
Nvidia will definitely lower the prices by a negative amount.
What virtually all tech review channels don't seem to realize is how much chunkier graphics cards have gotten while you compare prices to what once was also excluding inflation. If judged by raw material alone you will find that prices are probably proportional if not favorable today. It is a matter of want that even supports such monstrosities (look at the chunkiness of the 4080 and 4090).
What about the GTX 580 from many years ago? How do prices and matrial relate to that?
What about even the GTX 1080 which was regarded as one of the best releases ever?
These tech reviewers need a deep check.
Should governments stop being so stupid? Yes.
Will governments stop being so stupid? No.
I really think this next gen will sell very poorly... 5090s will see to deep pockets,... everything else no....
They don t give a shit since people keep buying overpriced stuff 😂
The 30 and 40 series have been the worst selling on record. 30 series because they made less dies while using Samsung.
40 because they expected lower demand and they increased margins. They are banking on higher margins as people are waiting longer and longer between upgrades.
Tbf, gaming is slightly over 9% of their revenue at this point, and over the years the amount of money they're making there has been around the same. The gaming profits are even worse because their gaming hardware's profit margins are relatively slim. Their AI/datacentre business is booming tho, insane revenue and profits due to huge margins. So yeah, they don't particularly care about gaming, we're just lucky that for the most part what makes hardware good for AI also makes it good for gaming.
RTX 3000 series should have been selling incredibly well. They where only available for a very short time before selling out and prices skyrocketing. Prices did not get down to their launch price either after the crypto market crashed.
It's true. I'm one of them. If i want something, I don't look at the price or economy and politics behind it. I don't care. I mostly follow these videos to keep up with the tech capabilities and news about it. I'm pretty sure they target a consumer such as me.
@@Val-bx6gn And here Im hoping AI bubble burst soon
As a desktop Linux user for ages, y'all being scaredy cats about using Linux sounds so insane to me. Just try it. It's really not that bad. What happens when you hold back is that you're having overly high expectations of what you want from an alternative OS that neither Linux meets or even your current Windows usage meets adequately, setting up your switch to Linux for failure. Not as important, but it also is a missed opportunity because you don't stretch your technical skills to see if you're even capable of using desktop Linux, which is doing your computer journey a disservice. Switching to Linux, for a PC enthusiast should be a bi-annual ritual, installing it on a system every few years, and daily driving for a while to see if it got better and to see how it changed. After a few times of doing it you'd be very comfortable switching or dual booting with Linux as your primary
Agreed. Anyone who can (re)install Windows, can also install any popular user friendly Linux distro. It's even easier without the privacy hassle Microsoft puts you through.
Don't wait for "SteamOS". A good desktop experience will be had with other Linux distributions TODAY. I use Ubuntu. Linux Mint is also awesome.
I recommend Pop OS, it works great for gaming
I personally use, and can recommend for someone who is intimidated by linux, Mint. It's very familiar feeling to a windows user (but please do remember it's not windows and you WILL have to relearn certain ways of doing things, you can't just rely on "this works on windows so it must work here", be prepared to google and learn) and generally just works very well.
I do think people who rely on an established windows workflow should perhaps try dual booting so that they still have windows for productivity while they learn the ropes in their off time with linux. The biggest problem in these youtube "linux challenges" imo is that they try to engage in complicated tasks like video editing day 1 of using a completely new operating system. They try to use it just like they've been using windows for decades, and become frustrated. It's like someone who's never touched a computer before booting into windows and immediately trying to make professional tier youtube videos. Of course it's going to be a mess.
@@KLIPPANLAN I went with PopOS! two times already, but I went back to Ubuntu. It just feels more mature in my very subjective experience. Also went with other distros, tried Debian, Fedora, Mint, Arch and NixOS. Still found my way back to Ubuntu. Lol. A lot of people hate me for that.
@@yt-mull0rUbuntu would be fine if not for snaps.
I recommend KDE Fedora since its very close to what Steam OS is gonna be, while being up to date and stable. Bazzite is also there to double down on Steam OSisms
-what happens with people that bought games on other stores?
-well, at the end of the day steam OS is linux, so they have two option:
A- do nothing and let their clients install their stores with lutris like they do now
B- develop a flatpak version of the store and use proton/wine (which are both open source) for compatibility.
Have you used Steam OS? It's a distro of Arch linux, it's not locked in to Steam. If you can run a piece of software on linux you can run it on SteamOS. That being said, steam is basically the superior option for gaming on linux. Proton being their own software and fully integrated into the application and all. The competitors could put some money into also supporting these systems so people don't have to rely on things like Lutris, but if they don't it's a choice they are making, not steam being restrictive.
@monki_sudoive been playing games on linux for the past few years
@monki_sudo I'm playing the third playthorugh of Baldur's Gate on the Steam Deck so yes? We take up about 5% of the market, we're not common but not that rare.
@monki_sudo I'm not sure what your point is. I was being positive about gaming on steam on linux. The other platforms still have some work to do to catch up to how seamlessly steam have integrated it, and it's up to them to do that, not valve.
I run linux Mint and with few exceptions games work fantastically with little effort through steam. I also have a steam deck, though I don't use desktop mode there a whole lot because I have a desktop.
TSMC has even less competition than the GPU makers...
possibly changing soon with YSNIC (south korean TSMC basically)
Really who can make a good deal with Samsung's fabs on a previous tier node. Surely Samsung's previous gen nodes can be used cheaply? 5LPP and 5LPE should be cheap enough to make decent die sizes affordable for AMD and especially Intel who burned bridges with TSMC.
Yeah, they are the one monopolise chip price now, hard to change if the sourcea have no competition
This is exactly why "going fabless" was a big lie for consumers. There has to be competition along-side innovation at all levels of the chain.
@@bpcgosimagine add 2 monopolies on supply chain. RiP price. Or a monopoli and duopoli.
Timestamps :
00:00 Intro
00:40 Sponsor
1:43 Will there be higher-end Battlemage GPU's and when?
7:00 Will Battlemage GPU's be a concern for AMD and Nvidia?
11:40 Thoughts on claims that intel is losing money on B580?
20:07 Thoughts on SteamOS replacing Windows for PC gaming?
26:51 Thoughts on Path Tracing in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle?
42:06 Most overhyped motherboard feature?
Thanks!
16gb 4070 competitor from Intel for $400 would be a good release.
Good would be an understatement. It would potentially be a market reset to pre COVID pricing.
You know AMD will be dumb enough to sell it at 550
@@dragonmares59110 650*
I would pay $500 for a 16GB RTX 4070. Simply because in my country a regular non gddr6x 4070 is at $570
@@dragonmares59110 Well we aren't talking about AMD here.
But yeah AMD will likely do the usual shit of releasing too high rpiced, getting rekt in reviews for it and then quietly drop the price 2 months later when suprise suprise it doesn't sell.
Honestly bring on SteamOS. Windows is going downhill so fast still and has been for some time. We need an alternative that can play all games.
It's called a PS5
@Jacko_486 I said any game. Not "what Sony chooses you can play"
Go try Stalker 2....oh wait
No no no. Why wait for SteamOS??? Just hop on board Linux now then. SteamOS is just another Linux distro. It won't magically fix the few games not running, honestly, that's up to game devs!! But there's thousands and thousands of games just running from Steam alone. But you can also play non steam games on Linux.
For now, SteamOS seems to be focusing on the handheld experience first. If you want a great desktop experience, go for an established Linux distro today and install Steam (and maybe the Heroic launcher and Lutris). And you're good to go. I am exclusively gaming on Linux and I don't see why people wait for SteamOS
So bring it on and go for it man. Try it on another drive.
@@Jacko_486 This is an utterly inane comment, too delusional even for a troll. Ever heard of keyboard and mouse? Yes? There are whole genres of games that aren't even available on PS5, and never will be. Thousands of games.
I really dont want to be that guy but the translation layer used by steam is called proton which is based on WINE which explicitly says (Wine Is Not an Emulator) Rather its a translation layer
whats the difference?
@BlackJesus8463 Practically it doesn't matter it's just a technical detail.
An emulator is more of a container for the game to run inside. Wine is just a layer between DirectX and the rest of the system.
SteamOS IS Linux, there is nothing special about SteamOS necessarily over just using a linux distribution. The special sauce is the Proton compatibility layer. Give Linux a try!
This. SteamOS seems to focus on handhelds. Which is great. But if you want that desktop experience: it's already here.
Guys, Intel has nothing to worry about. RTX 5070 12GB gonna be like $700 if not more
$799 makes most Sense if 5070ti is $1100 to $1200 and 5080 $1400 to $1500…
But let see.
AI 5070 and the normies will buy it for 999$ because it has AI in it
@@haukikannel yeah, fucking 800 bucks midrange GPU with not enough VRAM to last 4 years (2 gens) which most people aim for. What a fucking time to be alive. At this point, I'm thinking to even quit AAA gaming altogether, because there's just so few great AAA games I'm willing to play that the costs of HW investments per game played got way too high (I play like 1-2 AAA games a year in recent years)
If there will be enough ignorant consumers with deep pockets, like with the 30-series during 2021, they won't sell it under 1k.
"the emulation is getting better"
It's in the name "Wine Is Not Emulation" it's a compatibility layer that directly maps foreign calls to native APIs (whenever possible)
Don't be surprised when you name something WinE and people call it Windows Emulator
"Windows brings its game compatibility!"
WRONG. But the BELIEF that they do being so commonplace and yet contrary to fact, is WHY we don't have either windows competitors OR backward compatibility with games. Heck, the SMB team in Windows OS had to get explanations from the SAMBA group that makes an Open Source replacement for Linux of the SMB protocol as to how it worked, because they, the windows team, didn't know how their SMB protocol worked.
Try playing Max Payne, the first one, on Windows. Won't work. Try playing, ooh, say, Praetorian. Won't work. SCADS of games just plain won't work, even though Windows 10 claims "Run under WinXP compatibility mode" for them, because the stuff required just isn't in the OS any more. As a replacement that transcodes from Windows calls to Linux calls, WINE DOES run those games. GoG will also ship modifications to some games or a DOS emulation with their games that are older windows games BECAUSE Windows refuses to work on them.
But Tim goes and believes, honestly I feel, and with his whole heart that, despite all facts against it, Windows has backward game compatibility, because he only plays Win7 games using DX8 or 9, and not DX8 Win98 games, so has no clue what backward compatibility windows fails to have, and just believes that since some new games work and some recent games work, then Windows is "better than Linux".
It's not wrong. More games work in Windows on PC than ANY OTHER OS.
That's just fact for you. It's not a "belief"``
@@OriginalMergatroid It is indeed wrong though. It didn't "bring" compatibility, games are simply made to run on Windows because of its market dominance. Why would game studios make games for other platforms that has way lesser shares? It is no brainer.. Linux is the one trying to "bring" compatibility by making DX games run on Vulkan and OpenGL. The Linux segment of the video is truly an uneducated opinion.
No need to use SteamOS. Fedora or any other distro really provides the same gaming experience and it's full blown desktop with great package manager.
I always remember the late Gordon Mah Ung saying the internet would piss and moan but still end up buying Nvidia which led to the current state of GPU market with Nvidia releasing overpriced GPU while AMD at half-raised white flag.
AMD gpu's are just not an option. They are so bad. If there was an viable competitive gpu I would buy it. But there is not. Current gen gaming requires upscaling for high resolution gaming, and FSR is complete garbage.
@@Dempig said an nvidia fanboy
@@DrMicoco I mean, you could just take him apart with arguments instead of going full ad hominem. There are reasons other than brand loyalty why people keep buying Nvidia. He pointed to some of those reasons. Before you ad hominem me too: yes, I own a 4080 and I made the conscious decision to pick it over a 7900XTX because I care about ray tracing and the better upscaler.
@@Dempig Sorry but that's simply not true.
@@TheEchelonit is, and you're not going to convince people who have owned both.
Steam OS doesnt keep you from playing other platforms its linux, extremely stupid ceos do because they think game piracy is easier on open platforms like linux so they add drm
In Europe, the B580 is pretty easy to find. Most resellers have in stock. The problem is the price in Europe is more expensive then the RX7600 and the RTX4060 (around 20%) and most of the time it is as expensive as a RX7600XT with 16GB, for similar performance. The $250 price tag seems to be for US only intel card.
I dont even think an "US-thing". I think it is a "few" selected cards. it is like gatcha. You can get it or not. You will most likely find it for much higher prices. And is not scalping if the scalper is Intel itself.
It's not 250 in the US either lol, also way over that here
It is getting scalped at the moment. Plus you have to remember EU includes VAT
@@brolo7234 the VAT applies to the competition too
Ya the $250 price was for like 2 hours. Been looking since launch. Only models you can get are on newegg for $380-429.
Why would they? Nvidia charged 1600 and they sold out.
Yup, until people stop buying they'll keep gouging
@@rundown132 Yes, we can blame companies all day, but the real culprits are the people who enable this behavior.😂 to try and change that is an impossible task.
@@brokemono Calling that an "impossible task" is itself enabling and reinforcing bad behaviour. Why should people try anything different if it's "impossible"? Stop being a doomer enabler.
@@rundown132 And people won't stop buying if the competition is dogsh!t.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat it's not really about the competition being dogshit, like being fr most of AMD's gpu have nice value over Nvidia ones within the low end and mid range. The ultra high end it's not the majority so you would think AMD or Intel would be having a better time on the lower price market and therefore being more competitive, but it's insane how many people are scared of amd gpus because of driver issues that don't happen, and also you would be suprised how many people don't even know AMD sells gpus, or do know but don't even consider it because they want nvidia. The biggest customer they have are kids who probably don't know anything about pcs, and if you asked a kid what would he rather choose between a 4060 and a 7900XTX, do you really think he would choose the XTX?
Nvidia lowering GPU prices is like Stevie Wonder seeing a rainbow.
or in general
Stevie Wonder isnt blind, its an act
Omegalul 😂
He ain't blind it's a grift
@@FocconMc 🤣🤣🤣
Sure, just don't buy, then the prices will fall automatically
That would actually have the opposite effect, these companies are charging the money they do to meet margins, every company has a target and will try hard to meet those targets, if People buy less, especially on an immediate basis, overstock will likely reduce in price temporarily, then production volume for next year decreases and all of a sudden prices are higher than they ever were, the reason prices have been rising souch since COVID is behaviour like this, COVID in particular saw a huge increase in the purchase of luxury goods and services, every market sector like the one this video details saw an increase in spending, people had less outgoings (lunch out, days out etc) and so a larger than usual surplus, prices were high for shortages but the economic state of countries meant huge cash surplus which came from essentially redirected money from services like leisure, food, and entertainment.
While greed is certainly a factor, all that's really happening is someone's boss wants to please their boss, and they want to please theirs, and so on, that's why profit margins are high and low yield products are being produced, nobody would buy a gpu that barely improves over last generation, but also doesn't want to pay the fee for incredibly difficult processes
@@fewik8567 Capitalism is based on a simple theory of supply and demand. Demand dictates the price of the supply. That is the end of the story. Been seeing a lot of people inferring it doesn't matter whether you buy something or not.
I can assure you, as someone who previously worked in retail for 20 years, it does.
They won't.
For starters, most of the profits from NVIDIA come from Enterprise purchases.
Then there is the fact that "just don't buy" isn't an option for workstation users, as it's not so much of a purchase as it is a necessary investment in your work.
The prices aren't going to go down until the bubble bursts.
Im not sure about this. Nvidia are already making so much money off datacenters for Ai and other things that losing that small fraction of revenue from the commercial/gaming market wouldnt affect their bottom line. They'll still make a profit from the people still buying their cards though.
But as the situation goes. When it comes to super or ultra-high-end GPus. There is only player in that market and its not AMD or Intel. Where else are these customers going to go if not Nvidia?
I think it has to take AMD or Intel gaining a big amount of marketshare before Nvidia starts thinking about lifting a finger. Because Then its clear that people are actively boycotting or shunning their cards.
No look at Intel with cpus. Intel almost never drops prices even though amd is selling more and offering better value at a cheaper price
I’m grateful for the GPUs I already have. I’m not being fooled into upgrading just to play new unoptimized games that will eventually be patched to work with older GPUs. I can understand if you’re an enthusiast, or a streamer/tester/video editor, etc. making money with the newer GPUs but most people don’t need to spend more than $300 to $400 on a GPU to have a good experience.
Enter 49" super ultrawide
@@pranze3484 that qualifies as enthusiast IMO
Fair, I have a 7800xt cuz it is an absolute must for me to run all games at my 1440p monitors resolution and games like ark ascended need it. I wouldn't have upgraded anytime soon but my gf is building her first pc and I kinda wanna help her with the cost so she'll get my GPU for cheap and I'll buy a 9070xt probs
@@cliffordjohnson943 is 1440p considered "enthusiast" ? your logic that people shouldnt spend more than 400$ on a gpu when 1440p has become the mainstream and people just wanna have a good smooth gpu is just dumb
@@Eleganttf2 I think he was talking about the price of a 49" super ultra wide monitor.
I looked and it range between 800 to 1000 $, it may be 1440p but it's still enthusiast stuff, and i guess someone who put that amount of money on a monitor put the same amount in a graphic card as a minimum (an investment in monitor is the best thing to do IMO, you keep it years)
edit : it even go as expensive as 1900 $ for the top of the line monitor...
We can't have lower prices hardware or feature complete games because people are dumb. Preorders, massive microtransaction purchases, we know what would be good. Companies are greedy and we're rolling over and paying too much for too little.
pre order is going down since DEI entered the gaming market, i saw this trend around that people not pre ordering that much anymore.
@@allxtend4005 pre orders are not going down lol.
I think mobile gaming has had a lot to do with the "sheepification" of the population.
There's people who've grown up knowing nothing about games and think you have to spend money in them to do anything.
Nvidia...no CHANCE nvidia will lower.
i am expecting nvidia 5080/5090 to have no competition from AMD as their only top end is just a 9070. Prices will be completely cooked, and for Australians..its going to be horrible
nobody forces you to get a 5090 lol
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j no one is forcing you to buy anything in this world? I don't get it, what was your point here?
Even the 5070 and 5060 will have no competition from AMD if we look back at what happened with the 3/4000 series...
4080 super was lowered. ... 5080 will likely sell worse then 4080... don't be so sure. Its can and HAS happened
@@ZomgZomg007waste of screen presses tht comment. Best bag for buck is AMD, but people like to be brand fanatics cause they dont like to admit their lovely brand is bad.... ohh well...
Find it hilarious people claim to know intels exact profit margin when there’s people who worked on literally designing the architecture or the software stack that wouldn’t have access to that information
There are multiple profit margins anyway, depending on whether you look at just the costs of the hardware versus the income, or also look at the R&D, marketing and other costs.
And with many of these extra costs, it's a choice how to calculate the costs. For example, to what extent do the Arc R&D costs get attributed to the CPUs versus the GPUs is a choice.
There is nobody that claim to know the exact profit margin. There are some that claim Intel is not making any money from it or selling it at a loss. And no, this is not using some insider information but just common sense. B580 is relatively big for the price (272mm2). It is using TSMC 5nm, thus they can't simply cut the foundry margin to make the product cheaper. It also has 12GB of VRAM. Compare that with RX 6600 that is 237mm2, using TSMC 7nm, and has 8GB VRAM. This is using a lower bin chip and right now you can get it at $200. I'm using RX 6600 because it is likely that the margin for this product is low because it is an older product and they probably want to clear it (but not to the point of taking a loss just to clear it). Thus based on this and also other product pricing, it is more likely to say that Intel is either selling it at cost or a loss vs saying that Intel is making money for every B580 sold. The fact that Intel rep can't confidently say that the GPU is making money also support this idea.
Arc is made in TSMC. So if you see the die size of the B580, intel is giving you an amount of silicon closely similar to a 4070Ti for a price below of the 4060, in the same node, and giving you 50% more Vram (fairly common 18Gbps GDDR6).
Only with *that,* you don't need a PhD to know they're doing almost 0 money and why the big companies (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte) have shown ZERO interest in making Arc cards, even when Battlemage is being praised by everyone and selling out everywhere.
@@Just_An_Ignaciomy understanding is that it has gotten more and more expensive to make GPUs, especially over the past 7 years or so. Long gone are the days of huge generational leaps pending some sort of huge breakthrough. You can tell from how much more time there is between new GPU generations. A trade war with china doesn’t help, but at least the fabs are in Taiwan. Unfortunately TSMC has an effective monopoly on GPU production because they have the best fabs and the staff to run them. It’s just kind of what it is at this point. Prices are just going to be higher. Is that fair to me? Not really, but I don’t have to buy a GPU if I don’t want to
I hope crypto goes away forever and the AI craze dies down so that maybe, just maybe, things can go back to normal
Its not an exact profit margin. Intel has already made it clear that they are not making money. That means the profit margin is not enough to offset development costs. We also have an approximate idea of the profit margins from AMD and NVidia (somewhere in the order of 40% and 60% respectively. Given the size of the die and the node used and the price you can make a reasonable guess as to where the profit margin sits. It could potentially be negative or it could be at cost or it could be somewhat positive. I think if the profit margin was positive, intel would have an incentive to allocate more waifers and expand supply, but they clearly haven't, like AMD is doing with the 9800x3D. You can see from the volume of sales that intel is pushing more supply out. So if the profit margin is positive its not positive enough.
SteamOS does have a normal desktop environment not just Big Picture mode, and games from other stores can be played through Linux apps like Lutris or Heroic Games Launcher since SteamOS is just a Linux distro.
steam need to figure out the nvidia and anticheat situation before steam machines are released
@@tanmaypanadi1414Nvidia drivers have been improved big time. Nvidia is working on it. But also the open source driver for Nvidia is improving. But AMD/Intel are a little better for the out of the box experience.
Anti cheat is figured out already. It's the game developers not working along. Proton is ready for it.
Pleb: Has dual boot system
Windows Update: Would be a shame if something happened to that illegal boot system you have here.... 🙄
Illegal boot system? Expand, please.
@@mickaelsflow6774 I guess you're not aware of Windows blowing up (overwriting) bootloaders in dual boot systems after updates. It was a joke.
@@sirius4k genuinely not. I have not dual booted for long in quite a while. And when there's been issues, I've always had the ability to boot on the main and reinstall a Grub2 or else.
Seems like it's gotten worse.
@@mickaelsflow6774 Well, it's not like you hadn't had an opportunity to repair these cases either, because you will have now a single-boot Windows system.
It's just MS releases a crappy update and oopsie daisy, sorry! To be clear, it's not with every update... because it has to be a surprise.
And you spend your time now repairing the mess, depending on your skill. You might just install everything again, because you don't know how to repair it or just go without Windows this time.
Tim and Steve are such a weird duo... Here they are once again whining about how they would "love" to have a competitor for Windows in the gaming space, whilst only few months ago in one of their Q&A videos repeating ignorant things about Linux and why they don't wanna test games on it...
There will never be a competitor for Windows if you refuse to benchmark and spread the word about the existence of these alternatives, and I'm saying this as someone who is using 3 different operating systems daily! (those being Windows, Mac and Linux)
The market sets the prices, but the market is dumb.
buyers
Yesn't, Gaming is a hobby and people tend to spend a lot on their hobbies, especially in first world countries, and gaming is a relatively cheap hobby as compared to cars, bikes, horses, photography and so on. It doesn't make sense price to performance wise, but neither does a BMW M3, high-end camera, or a race horse. I think it's a reality we won't get away from 😓
How can we make benchmarking even more taxing for Steve? We introduce 40 games on Linux benchmarks! =P
I do look forward to SteamOS to start getting traction on PC desktop as well.
On handheld is Linux has succeeded with SteamOS and the opening up with "Powered by SteamOS" might help making Linux it even more viable OS for gaming and open up for desktop.
The B580 is what people want to buy. They got it right, if they can do that for the next release in the £400 range they will gain market share quickly
People are ready to leave Nvidia, no joke.
Its just a huge risk as the competition is selling cards with massive profit margins so they could just drop prices to undercut you and Intel would have no case in claims competition is selling cards at a loss.
Then NVIDIA will just lower prices. As long as its £100 more, then that is enough for most people to go for NVIDIA lol
intel isnt in a position to lose profit to gain market share
You can easily add non-steam games to steam already today, in both windows and steamOS.
why would you?
@@BlackJesus8463 Because not everything is on Steam, sometimes stuff is cheaper elsewhere, and in general being locked in to one Store sucks so it's important that the possibility exists, if only as a "just in case" kinda thing
Now that NVIDIA have had tasted the AI pricing premium, no way they'll stop increasing prices.
NVidia and AMD (and Intel) are going to focus on the GPU compute not the GPU gaming market. Gamers will get the attention that these companies can afford to take away from their GPU compute pushes, nothing more.
This. The AI/Pro business is making them much more money, gaming is a loss for them at this point.
AMD and Intel don't have a chance of competing in the server and workstation market.
NVIDIA already has an established ecosystem, no company is going to opt for something other than the standard.
@@pedrolantyer Pretty much. At this point if you need performance you go Nvidia. The only reason to go AMD or Intel now is price and the products they offer are so inferior to Nvidia that they are not even worth it seeing how overpriced AMD is selling their GPUs
@@pedrolantyer some high profile tech companies including microsoft and IBM use AMD's MI300X in at least some of their clouds and a bunch of smaller AI businesses also use their cards. While their marketshare isn't great, 10% datacenter market share also isn't nothing (and it's going up instead of just staying steady or going down like what's happening in their gaming platform)
Jensen and Lisa are family. I don't get fanboys when both CEO can go to family dinners and laugh at you. Your opinion on AMD being better price to performance are irrelevant to them.
Edit: Nevermind wrong thread but still valid tho.
The only thing that can make them drop prices is an equally good, but significantly cheaper competitor. Other than that, no fcking chance.
Yes, stop buying if you dont really need.
I’m not upgrading from my 2080 anytime soon. Instead I would take the money that I would’ve spent on a new, high end pc and monitor and I’d buy a PS5 Pro, Series X, Switch, a couple of controllers for each and a high end 77” OLED. On top of that, I’d take the additional money I’d save and pay some bills, get some KFC and pay my rent.
People were using AMD to lower Nvidia's prices. When everyone got wise to that, now they hope that Intel will do the same. They will talk good about Intel only to buy cheaper Nvidia. Gamers deserve what they get. Like seriously, stop being such a spineless mouth breather. If someone sells something you don't like, DON"T BUY IT. How hard that can be? You have alternatives, it is not a monopoly...
Most people like nvidia GPU's, its a fact. The only people complaining are AMD fanboys grasping at any amount of copium they can.
It's a monopoly, regulators just won't step in because it's tech. If this crap was happening in China we'd be furious (although the prices would probably still be lower).
The ugly truth is nvidia gpus generally are better
@@nimrodery Monopoly is when consumers don't have options. Not when one outperforms the other.
@@REgamesplayer "Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power - that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors." - FTC
Valve releasing steamOS might be the best thing for gamers, not because it’ll replace windows. But due to it’ll give Microsoft a competitor to step up their game optimizations of windows.
I think you need to do some Linux class homework on SteamOS and Linux in general.
What people call path tracing in games is various different implementations with different limitations, so these modes cannot be directly compared between games. If you want true raw path tracing download Blender (cycles) or UE5 editor. Not even 4090 can handle it without giant amounts of noise for scenes with decent materials.
I find it interesting that people are attacking the B580 die size. Oh, they are losing money on every card because of the HUGE die size. I think a lot of these folks just want to attack the card, and since Intel finally made a generally good card, it's hard to find something to criticize, so they attack the die size, even though it's much smaller than it was on the A series. Sure, Nvidia has a pretty small die size below the 4070 tier, but 272 isn't extreme. The 6700 XT, which the B580 now frequently gets compared to, had a larger die at 335.
When comparing die sizes you need to account for the node too, 6700 XT was on N7 (pre-EUV IIRC), B580 is on N5.
MASSIVE EXTREMELY LARGE 272 square millimeters
meanwhile, ten years ago:
GTX 970, 3.5 GB (totally 4 GB guys :DD) for 330 USD
-- 398 mm²
R9 390, 8 GB for 330 USD
-- 438 mm²
I guess the cost of silicon has quadrupled or something, lol?
@@TheDoomerBlox not silicon itself, but yeah, we went from something like $2000 per wafer to $18 000 per wafer
@@defeqel6537 I wonder how TSMC can afford expanding all the time...
It's completely okay to say "I don't have enough knowledge and/or experience with this, so I can't give my opinion on this," this would prevent blatant misinformation and increases trust with your audience.
Linux gaming is still very limited, are we wrong? I like playing Fortnite and Apex Legends, can I do that on Linux?
@@Hardwareunboxed You were until the developers decided to put in code to explicitly not allow them be playable in Linux.
You have a typo in the description section. You have the Intel B580 listed as B850.
GJ Editor, you did good.
As long as people keep buying the cards, they won’t. Despite the horrific pricing of the 40 series they still sell
Just to clarify: SteamOS do have desktop mode and with dock you can use Steam Deck like normal PC
To add on that: The overall feel and experience of it is pretty similar to Windows and easy to get into if you come from Windows. Non-Steam games work well too and tools like Lutris (has any game that's been submitted) and Heroic (EGS for Linux) make it easy to install and play them.
For anyone curious to give it a try, most Linux distros allow you to try them from the installation flash drive directly, without installing anything. Kubuntu would be a good distro for that, or Linux Mint if you don't mind a slightly different desktop environment.
Don't forget, GPU prophet once said, "The more you pay, the more you save." Pretty sure that's what he said.
While wearing another new leather jacket...
I just bought a B580 now when I'm upgrading from a 1060, its amazing for the price
That's the perfect upgrade for you. Good buy!
"lunched a product for a bizarre metric? what would the point be?" -> to avoid court cases raised by investors
I don't think that's what Battlemage is but you're right. It definitely does happen.
I was absolutely shocked when I loaded up Indiana Jones on my founders RTX 3080 10GB, and tried the high preset on 1080p, and it warned me that I did not have enough vram. Thankfully only needed to change a couple of settings to remove the warning, and it ran the game comfortably between 60-80 fps. Frame generation completely sucks, it just feels like your mouse is disconnected from your movement, sort of like cloud gaming.
Am so sick of windows. I want a Linux-based OS that can be used reliably for gaming.
I am using Ubuntu exclusively. No more Windows here. What are you waiting for exactly? Just hop on a popular beginner friendly distro like Ubuntu or Linux Mint, install Steam and play. And if you need other game launchers: use Lutris and Heroic.
What do you mean by reliably? And is Windows reliable?
bazzite exists. you should try it
Great video, could you guys please add in the chapter marks next time so that it’s easier to navigate to the relevant questions that some may be interested in
Thanks
Intel made a good move by releasing the B580 GPU at that price, I may consider buying it just to support them, the last time I purchased an Intel product was a long time ago, but now they deserve the support because they are trying now at least in the GPU market
I am also considering the B580 for my second rig
I bought the A770 years back just to tinker with. Zero regrets. Solid card, plenty of VRAM, plus AV1 encoding. Makes for a perfect add-in or secondary rig adapter.
The B580 is likely in that same vein, but a bit better.
It is interesting how Steve calls Tom at MLID “full of it” at 16:49 without naming him. The $20 loss FUD came from MLID.
I hope he responds with some more BS. I want to see him squirm lol
People are saying that Intel is taking a loss on the B580 because it's kinda unthinkable even with how greedy Nvidia is that a 4070Ti costs 700-800 dollars which has almost the same size gpu die and the same vram and yet Intel can make money by selling the B580 for 250. That's such a huge difference it just doesn't make sense as the most expensive part on a gpu is the die itself. (even if its possibly true)
Also the Intel guy during the interview explicitly said that Battlemage is "invaluable" for their iGPU and APU development so it could be the case that they don't even care about desktop GPUs so the profitability of Battlemage is irrelevant to them but they are using it for R&D which is the real beneficiary
I agree I think intel wants in on AI chips and that seemingly bottomless money pile. It turns out that discrete GPUs for running video games are good at AI
Intel GPU deparment reprentative did say in Gamer Nexus interview that they don`t make money with battlemage… so no…
They do produce some b580 and b570 mainly for developing drivers… so again no…
@@haukikannel I don't think anyone is questioning that battlemage is a net loss. What people are questioning is whether the card costs more than $250 to manufacturer leading to intel wanting to make as few as possible.
Regarding steamOS, they are not emulating, they are translating. Emulation would occurred on macOS arm or windows arm systems.
Other game providers, not steam, can be played on the steam deck by going to the desktop on steamOS and installing lutris which downloads what you need for the games you want to play. Like 3rd party launchers and dependencies, same with heroic game launcher. So those are not really an issue at all.
The only real issue on Linux gaming is anticheat games. Even tho Linux supports anti cheat game makes are not wanting to enable it.
I think a plausible theory is that Intel has already paid for producing their cards, so by selling them at a loss they still get more than $0 to offset the production costs.
No loss at all @$250 there is only one card on the market that would take a loss the 4090 by about $30 , but even then they have to double the 4090's price due to giving 1 free with everyone sold to streamers/influencers/YTbers etc
Intel bought the fab capacity and sat on it for 4 ish year. it was already paid for during bob swan's tenure.
i think the TSMC contract was about to expire so they had to use it for something.
From what remember reading somewhere. during bob swan's tenure. the theory was the management didn't respect him enough as a bean counter.
so he tried to introduce competition by introducing the threat of Intel manufacturing will move to TSMC.
proposed like a insurance plan if their 10 nm node sucked they could use TSMC and win big on design fronts.
@@jurgengalke8127 There is no way a 4090 cost only $280 to make, it has a massive heatsink and shroud, has huge PCB and uses massive amount of RAM. Couple that with design, labor, shipping and manufacturing cost, the total cost is definitely way higher than that. Same for B580, it uses the same node as 4060Ti, but has bigger die size and more RAM. Of course there's also labor, shipping and retailer middleman cost. Another tell sign is that TSMC 5nm is such an old node, for Intel to have such low volume means it might not be that profitable after all.
Admittedly I'm comfortable with using Linux, far from an expert by any means but I've recently made the switch on my main pc to exclusively running Linux, and Proton is the entire reason I've been able to do so.
The way I run my games now is if it's a gog game I use playonlinux to run the installer, and then point steam to launch the game through Proton and it's been flawless so far.
It's almost there, and I think by the time windows 10 support ends I'll be able to fully move our lass over to Linux as well, especially if Steam OS for desktop launches in the interim, and finally be rid of windows completely.
Nvidia will adjust prices with the Super cards a year later. They're going to take advantage with the early adapters. It'll be the same as the 40 cards.
Here I'll answer the question in the video title.
Only if people buy Intel GPU's thus taking sales away from Nvidia and AMD.
No, Steve, you can't reasonably draw the same conclusions for the 9800X3D as it literally sits at the top of the Amazon bestselling CPU list. The 9800X3D has to have both the supply and the demand to be there. On the other hand, not a single model of B580 shows up on Amazon top 100 bestselling graphics card list, so either there isn't the supply, the demand, or both for it to be there (remember that we don't even know if the B580 is in the top 10,000, since the list only goes to 100). It's pretty disingenuous to compare the two.
That's a fair point. It's at 17 for the reference model and 33 for the sparkle model in Amazon jp, but nowhere on the US site. I wonder how they've distributed them.
48:50 Just trees hitting the studio, we'll be fine😂😂💀 That's how dedicated these guys are
0:28 if you guys haven’t already, you should put one of those sad Charlie Brown Christmas trees next to Balin’s workstation 😂
Thank you Balin!! Happy New Year boys
If/ when Intel cards start getting good, you can be sure they are going to start charging higher prices too. Their CPU prices are a prime example that Intel is just as greedy as the competition IF they can be
Man… rarely do I truly catch the accents as hard as I did in this video, especially in the beginning… sooooo many “Don’t knaurs” and I absolutely loved it 😅
At 2:30 what's up whit the memory speed we have 19Gbps, 16000Gbps and 16000/17500 Gps (note the lack of b)? I'm confused about it all
People still forget how small NVIDIA's part in consumer GPUs is compared to enterprise. I believe it's more probable for NVIDIA leaving consumer GPU area completely before coming back to “reasonable” prices.
Short answer: no
Long answer: no.
As soon as Pathtracing becomes a standard render pipeline for games in the future every currently existing GPU will absolutely suck compared to the first generation of Pathtracing dedicated hardware.
There is no point in buying a GPU today with consideration for pathtracing performance in the future.
It’s much more likely for AMD to price more competitively to not lose market share to Intel. Nvidia? Doubt they will care.
My takeaway confirms my bias: VRAM matters more than any fancy photo filters (ray tracing, path tracing, water Physics, etc). To make a game actually look good, you need high quality textures. This is step 1. Everything else comes second and you should budget your $$$ accordingly.
What matter the most is the computing power, VRAM is just one of the many bottleneck we can encounter. More VRAM doesn't lead to more FPS, more VRAM is like good tires on your car, it will help the engine reach it's peak performance by adding good traction to the asphalt but if you want to go from 120 fps to 240 you need a better processing power. We are actually in a bad spot because the need for VRAM seem to go way higher than before with video game trying to charge lossless textures like it's a fuckin Skyrim mod list and the GPU doesn't scale too well with that.
Still running my 1080 Ti, not sure a current $700 card could last 7 years.
Other than the 1080ti a card lasting that long and still being viable is pretty much unheard of. Back in the day you had to upgrade every 2 to 3 years.
Love the 1080Ti for value, but you got to adjust for inflation at least. It was $900 in today's money.
Obviously the performance isn't comparable to price now with technology having improved, but the fact that it's still a viable GPU carries a lot of opportunity cost over ~8 years.
$700 is worth much less than $700 when the 1080ti was released.
25:09
This is actually not that big of a problem at this point. You can easily download Lutris and Heroic Game Launcher, and they even have a button to add games to steam. You can also access your Epic Games games easily in steam OS on the steam deck once you have Decky and Junk Store installed
I get, that you first need to install those things to access all of that, but at the same time I think you kinda need to do that and more either way on Windows. Although I also wish for an easier implementation
But all of this already allowed me to have more non Steam games installed on my steam deck, some GOG, some Epic, some other, compared to Steam games. Even something like Genshin Impact or Minecraft Java and can play them without going into desktop mode
Edit: my personal problem with some Linux distros is managing of access for Apps. A normal user doesn't want to install Flatseal and put a specific folder for every app. They just want it to work. Same for auto mounting a drive, I had some problems, that were easy to fix, and if a Program would use UI for that, I think it would be enough
I do believe AMD might need to lower prices to keep their market share (if they actually will is a different question)
Though Nvidia won't do anything. They don't need to lower prices because people keep buying either for the prestige of having an nvidia card or because they need cuda for something work related. (While ROCm works it often just isn't an option if all of your software is already written in cuda)
Love the cursor on the sponsor message
AMD has been lowering the prices for years (it's not rare to find their models with a good discount just a few months after release). They actually adjust to the market and so does Nvidia, the issue is the market is telling Nvidia they can get away with anything.
Issue with AMD is MSRP. They always without mistake undercut Nvidia by 5% which is a huge mistake since their products don’t compete with Nvidia at similar price ranges. They should be better priced to compete.
The market is heavily influenced by marketing, including streamers, youtubers etc... so not so inocent. Well on the other side of inocence i'd say.
@@themarketgardeneryeah, if they priced the MSRP at the prices the market will accept they'd get so much goodwill from consumers and probably sell more. I don't know if they believe selling the first batches on a premium is worth the poor reception or what, but their market share is evaporating and they need to do something about it.
Overpricing their cards at launch and then cutting the price 3 months later is not adjusting to the market, it's either seeing if they can get away with that price or it's trying to milk their dedicated fans who will buy the new product day 1 regardless of price.
Better would be them not trying US$100 more on launch than their stuff is worth. There's no second chance to make a first impression.
Some phones are able to send 3.5mm analog signals through the USB jack for either a passive adapter or analog headphones, so it wouldn't surprise me if some people do think PCs could do the same
Intel needs to focus on the area where people buy cards, namely competition with the Nvidia 60 and 60ti (4060/5060). This is where a lot more sales can happen, and with Intel already showing just how good the B580 is against the 4060, if Nvidia does another shit 60 card (4060 worse than 3060) then Intel really has a chance to make some serious sales.
Because Intel is not making money with b580… not likely that Intel want to make many of those gpus….
Sorry but i dont beleive the BS you are talking about "omg windows so bad", but your content is 100% based on windows and if it wasn't your channel wouldnt have gotten this popular. But please, If you want change then start with THIS channel doing benchmarks/Testing on linux/Other OS First and then side note windows since you detest it so much.
Talk is cheap, show us action guys, linux is free.
"The more you buy, the more you save"
Someone, somewhere.
.>
....Some jacket.
I wonder what the pricing model of full-on desktop SteamOS would be? It’s free for handhelds because Valve has an incentive to get the entire handheld market on Steam, but that’s less true for an open desktop experience. I wouldn’t mind paying for a desktop SteamOS if it offers a compelling experience.
The only one with whom Intel competes is AMD, not Nvidia. Not because of the strength of the card but because of the Nvidia brand. The best Intel can hope for in following years is to drag AMD down and Nvidia will laugh all the way to the bank.
Regarding overhyped GPU release mechanism: I think Steve is forgetting users with bigger CPU air coolers. If I wanted to get the GPU out of my last 2 PCs I needed a long stick/screwdriver/pencil to release the GPU without removing the cooler, which always made me anxious about damaging the board. That's why I am really happy about the quick release button on my latest motherboard.
Sure, I don't remove the GPU very often, but especially in the building phase I had to do it at least 2 or 3 times in the past. And it was always a pain to do so..
Hope you have a good new year (couldn't find a translation for hour "Guten Rutsch ins neue Jahr" :) )
Another argument for my case: th-cam.com/video/izwl3eeJjyc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HPEHDpYEX7MiB-P9&t=752 :)
I just posted the same thing. The standard PCI-e release mechanism is terrible. If you have a GPU with a thick back plate and a large air cooler, it is extremely difficult to get it to release. There's very little of the lever available to push on and you have to reach down the thin channel between the cooler and the GPU. I for one appreciate better release mechanisms that aren't such a pain to operate.
Given they can use the silicone alternatively in data center and AI positions at higher profit margins, there is little pressure for them to sell consumer gpus at lower prices. It sucks but that’s where we are at.
Gamers get the failed, leftover chips. The ones that have defects. They cut them down and salvage what wouldn't sell to enterprise customers.
Thanks for the Q & A, guys! Have a nice holiday!
AMD should absolutely worry because people are getting tired of their incompetence , I've been testing A770 for 2 weeks and its actually been quite a good experience , the drivers are a little bare vs AMD's drivers but all the games I play do work on the card
Once Steve and Tim tie the knot, the outpouring of joy will be the catalyst that lowers GPU prices.
Bad news, we did it like 5 years ago :(
@@Hardwareunboxed😅😂😅
If y'all stop believing that you MUST upgrade/replace your GPU every year or two, then the prices will come down.
"Muh favorite TH-cam tech channels said this new GPU will give me 5 more frames per second!" or "Muh ray tracing!".... "My eyes won't notice....but...MUST BUY!"
Upgrading every 2 years makes more sense than dealing with all of the issues that come with running new games on old hardware. Its not even expensive if you buy high end and sell your old GPU. High end GPU's hold value. Especially in a generation like this one, a 4080 for example will easily sell for ~$900+ used right now.
@@Dempig What issues? Surely the majority is "not enough VRAM," and people keep their GPUs way longer than that so I can't imagine it's a cornucopia of problems.
Them: "10% more perfomance improvement because I went from 3090 to 4090 for another loss of my kidney. HELL YEAH!!! I like keep scamming myself!!"
Meanwhile, soon I am upgrading from my 1660 Ti to a 5070 Ti with a 300% performance increase. LOL
@@dingickso4098 What? The difference between a 3090 and a 4090 is much larger than 10% lol, and if they sold the 3090 before buying the 4090 they would have spent less than you did for a much much better upgrade
@@nimrodery Performance issues of all kinds whether it be from lack of power, vram, poor upscaling in AMDs case, whatever the reason. A mid range GPU from the 30 series is potato tier today for current gen games.
Awesome videos! I do use the onboard audio on motherboards, and I appreciate it being good without too much distortion, but I don't think in-depth testing of it is worthwhile in reviews. The VRM temperatures and knowing if a board can handle the high end processors with more cores are way more important to me. Thumbs up.
Gigabyte ad @ 0:45 - Seizure Warning
For Intel GPU division , it is better to be a victim of your success than to be total write-off.