Can you charge a 24V battery with a 20V solar panel and PWM charge controller?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- www.altestore....
Sixty cell solar panels, a.k.a. 20V solar panels, are commonly known as grid-tie solar panels, as they are most often used in grid-tie solar systems without batteries. We compare charging a 24V deep cycle battery bank with a 20V solar panel and a 24V solar panel on a hot summer day with a PWM charge controller. Because silicon solar panels output a lower voltage in the heat, the voltage output of the solar panels is lower than standard test conditions (STC), so we see if the voltage is high enough to charge the 24V battery bank. In a follow-up video, we do the same test with an MPPT charge controller.
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Kinda works.. definitely works. Really mislead me in a prior video. Everyone knows a 72 cell is more efficient than a 60 cell as it's higher voltage. Big woop.
As usual well explained. Thanks for your excellent video. It is very good to put numbers on the video rather than telling verbally. Many of us are not good at English .
Thank you. I'm trying to be better with making the videos more international. Most of them also have English subtitles that can be turned on by selecting the CC icon. It might help as well, you could use a translation site if I use any words you don't understand. I'm planning on adding more subtitles very shortly to videos that don't have them.
Thanks for another great review Amy younger and prettier
Thanks for this great video. Keep up the good work 👍😊
Very good demonstration video. Thank you 🙏
Someone could use a pair of these 20V panels to help charge some golf cart batteries. For example, on a 36V golf cart using six 6V batteries in series, have 2 of these "20V" panels on the roof of the golf cart (sideways not longways), 2 separate charge controllers, and only connect 3 batteries to each charge controller. So then you would have 20V (nominal) rated panels charging about 18V (nominal) of batteries. This might allow you to downsize the batteries in your golf cart and save significant weight, perhaps even close to 50 pounds net savings (after adding in the weight of the 2 panels). It would also help keep the batteries topped off when not using the golf cart. An additional benefit is the panels will make more shade on sunny days, keeping the golfers a bit cooler while waiting to hit.
Another solution would be to use a single panel (longways) and use a boost charge controller. Those increase the voltage to the battery bank so for example, if you have about 20V coming in from the solo panel under normal load, you can get 42V out to charge the entire 36V battery bank. For a single panel setup like that, I would not downsize the battery bank for weight savings.
With a pair of panels, it seems reasonable to get about a 10A charge in the sun and since golf is more waiting that driving, it should keep the batteries in a high state of charge (assumng you are not one of those golfers that often drives around for 5 minutes looking for your ball).
Most charge controllers need a higher voltage solar panel than the 36V or 48V battery bank on a golf cart. However, Genasun makes one specifically for this and boosts the voltage output to the correct voltage to charge the battery bank. You can see a video we did on it here, th-cam.com/video/0Rb77J1bI94/w-d-xo.html
Wow, Lady,you seem to know it all,what a pleasure to hear it from someone with experience who KNOWS;
I am stuck with five 60 cell panels,all 5 in parallel, to feed the house and charge the batteries; works well,but they cannot do it perfectly,voltage in not high enough,at least now in the summer
Can i ADD five 12 cell panels to my five panels,in series with each one,, so they kind of become 72 cells?
And i want to keep my cheap two PWM controllers,can i do that,or there will be a waste of energy in them?
Unfortunately it won't work like that since the cells are already wired together within the panels. If you did put a 60c panel in series with a 12c panel, the smaller one would most likely limit the current of the larger and you would not be operating efficiently.
@@AltEStore Thank you; i now have 6 panels,all the same; i am going to look into cheap DC-DC converters,but that may not work well too;
What i think will work, is to wire the 2 panel strings in series and get 60 volts,and buy an MPPT; will that work? thanks
I look forward to seeing your MPPT version. There are loads of 60 cell panels available second hand for very low prices where I am so I'm looking at getting a couple and building a small off grid lab.
The MPPT version is out, th-cam.com/video/4hU6FUiFI2I/w-d-xo.html. The answer is the same with one panel, 24V is better, but the good news is, with two 20V panels in series with an MPPT, you will be in terrific shape!
@@AltEStore so if I have 2 100 watt 20v panels I can do a 24v battery pack?
@@Willsmokalot The 100W panels are probably nominal 12V panels with 36 cells. Two of them in series can charge a 24V battery bank with either a PWM or MPPT charge controller.
@@AltEStore I want to put two 100 watt panels in series and parallel another two in series that I can move around incase my suv in shade so 2 fixed on roof rack and two that have enough wire to move around. I only have two right now trying to get another two to add later. thanks for your reply
@@AltEStore the module I'm using is hqst-100d-ss
Good explanation. 72 cell modules rather 60 cell modules are better for PWM controllers.
how do you figure? better in what way?
Jerry amazing information+ more ams good job man tnx(-:
All the good info is here at the altE Store . Get back inside or you'll have a farmer tan like me and don't pick your noise . T/C/E
Excellent
Nice job.,,thanks Ma'am
Great video!
Add to your "to do list" what happens if you use a mismatch wire to for your panel, say, a 5awg and 10awg.
Interesting idea. I may modify it a bit, and measure the voltage output at the end of 100' spool of 6AWG and 10AWG to show voltage drop. The resulting difference in volts would then likely have the same results as mismatched voltage solar panels. If we wired them in parallel after the 100', as if you paralleled at the charge controller or inverter instead of at a combiner box by the solar panels, the lower voltage string (10AWG) would pull down the voltage of the higher voltage string (6AWG). Ooh, I'm liking this a lot. Stay tuned.
+altE Good, that will be a great video. 👍🏼
+altE make sure the higher wire gauge is connected to the positive terminal of the panel.
love it
Hot? 88 sounds nice compared to 95 and 100 percent humidity.
Hot for solar panels, since Standard Test Conditions are about 76°F!
Very nice...
I have a single 22voc panel will a pwm solar charge controller let me charge a 24v battery will it step the voltage up
Why are panels standardized for spring weather (70's F) instead of summer weather (80's-100's F)? Isn't then the best time to collect solar power (both for sun access and non off-grid consumer's most likeliness to use them via vacation.) the worst time to have the panels in the sun?
Yes for one panel it does charge the battery and work but the performance falls as soon as you have more than one panel. I have 4 255watts panels with Max volts of about 31v. When the current goes up around 23amps the volts drop to about 24.9v. which can't really charge the battery. If i attached two panels in series the volts increase and is out of operating voltage of pwm charger. So i have no option but to buy mppt charge controller.
yes. buy mppt charge controller. but be careful. everyone is calling their charger MPPT. watch some reviews first. usually nothing less than $70. but they make all the difference in the world.
A solar canopy would be great to power the 18v motor I found for my recumbent bike.Great explanation,just wondering if a mobile panel would be cooler thus much more efficient than a static one.
More airflow is always good to cool off the panel. But a canopy would likely be horizontal, and unless you are on the equator, not the ideal angle. So you'd have a trade-off. Often the right solution is just the one that physically works best for you, and accept that it is not ideal. Note to charge an 18V battery bank, you would need a custom charge controller. Genasun would be a good place to look. genasun.com/all-products/solar-charge-controllers/for-lead/gvb-8a-pb-solar-boost-controller/
Hi,between 8am to 4pm,minimal tilt would set my panel perpendicular to the sun rays,as I am from a tropical Island and it's sunny most of the time.Solar assist bike commute would be a nice upgrade.
Perfect! You should do that and send us a picture!
Certainly,any day next year,with my son's help.
With a 24 volt battery bank can i use 3 100 watt 12 volt solar panels @ 36 volts total to charge it? Thank you
my 20/20 dingo plasmatonics pwm charge controller 12 24 48 volt charge controller it won't work with my single house solar panel 180 watts why???
so what really charges a solar battery high amperage or high voltage?
typo 2:20 on the SolarWorld Panel.. shouldn't it say 20v ? not 24v. thanks for your great videos!
Shoot, when copy and paste goes bad. Thanks for catching that.
Hi i was planning for a small offgrid system I've got a 12v 325 watt inverter, 12/24v charge controller (pwm) , support 390w in 12v and 780w in 24v
Max pv voltage 50, rated current is 30A , planning to get LiFePo4 battery, ( from supermexx - Indian Company) , I've just ordered for a dc-dc converter 24-12 v
supporting 300watt ,
Not yet sure of the solar pannel between 12 or 24 and the battery voltage ( 12 or 24 v)
I want the whole thing to be portable .
Should I get two 12v battery, two 12v pannel, or 24v battery and 24v solar or two 12v solar, or any different combination,
I've already ordered for converter, for the 12v inverter,
Hi, I am a student, and would like to get some help in this.
Thanks, regards
Question? I want to charge a single 12v battery with 320 watt 24v solar panel using a 12/24v 30a PMW charge controller (EPEVER 30a) that claims it can handle up to 50v and 360watts. Will there be efficiency losses vs an MPPT? Do PMW chargers like this step down voltage and step up Amperage efficiency?
An MPPT reduces the voltage while increasing the current, therefore minimizing lost energy. A PWM only reduces the volts, it does not increase the amps. If you try to use a 24V panel on a 12V battery, you will lose half of the potential energy. The reason the EPEVER you are looking at supports up to 50V is for when it is used with a 24V battery bank and solar array. The solar voltage will be around 44Voc.
Did I understand correctly that you need more than 24 volt panels using an MPPT controller to charge a 24 volt battery bank? I have 24 volt panels, an 80 amp MPPT charge controller and a 24 Volt battery bank. I would like to run the 24 volt panels in parallel at 24 volts but I can easily run two pairs in series and then parallel those to be 48 volts. Which is the best approach?
A"24V panel" has 72 cells and outputs about 44V when not connected to anything. If your panel is a true 24V panel (double check, as some companies mislabel 20V 60 cell panels as 24V), then you can wire them either 2 in series or parallel. An advantage to running them in series is that you end up with higher voltage and lower current running from the solar panels to the charge controller, which is usually the longest wire in the system. That allows you to use smaller wire with less voltage drop, saving you money. I'm assuming you have at least 4 panels. You could run two series strings of 2 in parallel, that would work terrific with an MPPT charge controller.
I've got a 24v-48v GTI inverter that quits when the voltage drops below 27.8 volts.... I'm adding 3 12v batteries in series to create a 36v loop to keep the inverter running... think my 24v panels working through a 36v charge controller can keep my batteries charged?
Grover Watson most mppt charge controllers have to have a higher voltage to charge the battery bank. You said panels. Can you wire 2 in series with an MPPT?
I wonder if there's a reason (other than cost) that people go with PWM controllers as opposed to MPPT?
Some people have said the PWM is more reliable... but I see no reason that a PWM controller (especially the majority of them out there) would outlive a quality MPPT controller.
It depends on the size of the system. It is commonly said that with a solar array under 500W, the increase in the solar output is outweighed by the additional power consumed by the MPPT, and the increased cost. But over 500W, cost would be the only reason. Another thing to take into consideration is voltage drop if the panels are a distance from the charge controller. MPPT allows you to wire them in series, generating higher voltage and lower current, letting you use smaller wire, and saving money there.
Wire does get really expensive really fast... If you need to pump 25 amps at 17ish volts through something, you're gonna need some big wire. 100 feet of 2/0 wire and you've quite possibly bought more than one MPPT controller. :D
Good point about the power usage of the controller. For a very small system, that would be significant.
Why do they even call it a 20V panel if it's really has 39.4V / 34.AV Voc?
It goes back to when solar panels were made just to charge batteries, and before MPPT charge controllers could change the output voltage to the battery. A 36 cell panel had the right voltage to charge a 12V battery, so it was called a nominal 12V panel. A 72 cell panel can charge a 24V battery, so it's a 24V panel. When they started making solar panels for grid tie, and didn't care about battery voltages, they made a 60 cell panel. Using the same naming method, it is considered a 20V panel. It does make it clear that the voltage is too high for a 12V battery, and too low for a 24V battery bank.
Ah thanks! So it's an anachronism.
@@AltEStore Excellent explanation;
I have a 12/24v 20A PWM charge controller and 2x100 watt solar panel. My question is, can the PWM charge controller take 24v (36v + 6.1A) and convert it to 12v (14.2v + 12.2A) for the battery?
A PWM charge controller only passes the voltage through, it does not change it. If it is rated as 12/24V, that means it can use a 12V solar array with a 12V battery bank, or a 24V solar array with a 24V battery bank. To convert from 24V array to 12V battery, you need an MPPT charge controller which drops the volts and raises the amps.
Hello Again. I hate to bother you again but I have just one more question. So much to learn. Anyway, If I was going to buy and Inverter only for right now. What would you recommend to run just the basic stuff but the main thing a TV ?? Thanks and Last Question. Terry :)
If you are just looking to connect a couple of low power items to a 12V battery bank that is getting charged from another source, just a little Samlex Pure Sinewave inverter like the SSW models would do the trick for not much money. www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/100-to-999-watts/samlex-ssw-12v-350w-pure-sine-inverter-p10828/ If you need a little bigger, there are several to choose from, www.altestore.com/store/inverters/off-grid-inverters/100-to-999-watts-c600/ I suggest you stick with pure sine and not modified, because pure works better with today's modern electronics.
Thank You so much. I will check those out and have already learned that the Pure Sine is better. You and your site are great. Sure glad I found it and Thanks so much. Terry
Hi. I have a 24v, 6.6 Ah Lithium battery powered electric bike I'd like to charge remotely (ie: portable). The A/C adapter I use now is 120-240v, 50-60Hz with 2.0 amp input and 24v, with 2.0 amp output. I'm confused whether I need a: solar panel, charger controller, inverter and/or a storage battery. Can I simply connect directly with simply a portable solar panel and charge controller, or do I have to use the A/C adapter? Thank you so much.
I suggest not bothering with the AC adapter, and just charge the battery directly from a solar panel with a charge controller designed for lithium batteries. If the charger is 2A output at 24V, you want about a 60W solar panel. You can get something like the Genasun GV- Boost, genasun.com/all-products/solar-charge-controllers/for-lithium/gvb-8a-li-lithium-solar-boost-controller/. It can take a 12V solar panel, and boost it up to 24V and control the charge into the lithium battery. You could use this panel, www.altestore.com/store/solar-panels/alte-poly-60-watt-12v-solar-panel-p11907/
Awesome ! Thank you for the info AND the very fast response.
Hi! thank you for this wonderful video. I have 60 cells SolarGiga panels from china, the Vmp is 39,42 V and Pmax is 280W just about the same for the CanadianSolar! Do you recommend battery of 12V or I go with 24V?
If you only have one 60 cell panel, I recommend 12V battery. If you have multiple panels you can put in series, you can do 24V. It really depends on the size of your system to determine which is the best battery voltage.
@@AltEStore Thank you for your answer! Yes, I was hesitating between 12 or 24V batteries, but I think 12 will do the work perfectly. FYI, I have 20 panels of Voc 39.42V and capacity of 280 Watt for each panel. our home consumes around 0.317 kw/h. Do I have enough power to boot it up?
@@hichamelouali With 20 panels, you should use a higher battery voltage than 12V. At least 24V, if not 48V. 20 x 280W = 5600W. 5600W / 12V battery bank = 466A into the bank. That is too much for a 12V battery bank. 5600W / 48V battery bank = 116A into the bank, that is much more manageable and can be done with one or two charge controllers.
@@AltEStore many thanks for such valuable info! I'll let you know once done ;)
great vid but I'm a bit confused, why are we only seeing 150 to 160 watts output
There are so many things that can affect the output of a solar panel. When I do calculations for off-grid, I plan on 60% of rated output actually getting to the battery bank. One thing is definitely the heat, it was very hot that day, so that dropped the voltage. Also I was not at ideal tilt and angle, and if memory serves me, the battery was not very low, so the draw on the charge controller from the battery may not have been as great as if the battery was low. But I agree, I was also a little surprised by the wattage, but as I said, there's a lot of different things that can add up.
@@AltEStore Each case is a case, and that is experience and knowledge; 60%, maybe 70% ? i'll remember that.
Pls assist it is possible to use 48v charger controller to 24v batteries and inverter is also 24v?
Pls reply sorry to border again
It depends on the charge controller. Is it designed to support multiple voltages, up to 48V, or is it just for 48V. If just 48V, no, it cannot be used for a 24V battery bank. It will either read the voltage as too low to charge, or it will try to charge it to 48V, damaging the batteries.
Can I connect two 72 solar panels in parallel to charge 24v battery
I want to know the same thing did you ever find out will it work with a solar charge controller
I’m not that expert but i think when it’s match in series better than parallel because of the inverter needs more voltage to works and try to buy inverter mppt range between 60-100 . That what I’ve found in TH-cam experiences
I think so,THAT is what they were made for; a 60 cell,they say here,won't do it well,just kinda...
I have 700 watt of solar panel .12volt.12six volt batteries tie together to make 16volt.for sum reason my 12volt charge controler keep reading dat the batteries r full even tho dere not.I end up unplugging the wire's to the charge controler and running dem straight to the batteries. works fine but den I can't tell if dere full r not and am afraid of damaging the batteries. is dere a better way 4me to do dis plz hlp
Can you describe how the batteries are wired together? Are they in 6 parallel strings of 2 in series? Where are you getting the 16V from? A full 12V battery bank will be around 14V. Did you wire them 3 in series? If so, the charge controller will always think they are full, because they are way above the 14V full voltage.
there 8volt golf cart batteries 2 tie together in series make 16volt .dats the only way I cud get dem to work wit my 12volt inverter. problem is when I have dem.(batteries)on my 12volt charge controler it tink dat the bat3s r full and dere not
my bad didn't notice i wrote 12volt instead of 8volt.just seen it looking back at my txt
these batteries are no good for A 12 volt system a 12 volt controller shuts of at 14.6 volt and floats at 13.7 this is to low for your battery set up and will not charge then correctly
the best way i can think of is a circuit to turn on and off the solar panels to the battery when they reach a set voltage very much how alot of cheap charge controllers work
Hi
Is it possible to modify the solar panels.
If I got 12V solar panel is there anyway to make it 24V??
Only way to do that is put a second one in series.
Many thanks for your prompt reply.
If I have only one panel?
Is there a way to do so looks like to change the fuse of panel.
If the panel only has 36 cells, there is nothing you can do. Some 12V panels have 72 cells, 2 parallel strings of 36 cells in series. If you have one of them, and there is a way to rewire the junction box to have them all in series (and that is a big if, I doubt it), then you can do it.
Your support is Highly appreciated.
Thank you very much...
Does water on the panel cause shading?
Good question. My answer is what I often say, it depends. If the water is pooling in a corner, and brings dirt and pollen over with it, then definitely yes. But if it is a spray with clear droplets, it *might* actually increase the sunlight to it. It'd be fun to measure some different scenarios, I'll put it on the list.
i'm using the iota battery charger with the iq smart module to maintain my backup battery since i won't have solar installed for winter. does the iq module sense what type of battery it has since there is no settings on this charger. you may not recall that i'm using the t-105 re battery.
nice tanned legs
The Iota IQ4 smart charger is not configurable for voltage outputs. For every 12V, its Float is 13.6V, 14.2V for Absorbtion, and 14.8V for Bulk. (x2 for 24V, x4 for 48V).
it is 44C & my voltage is only 70% in 12 am is it normal?
OH my god. That's hot!! I think you meant to say 12 PM. At 12 AM, you would get 0% voltage because it would be midnight :) And it wouldn't be 44C at that time.
But geez, I have never seen a voltage drop like that for solar cells. That's crazy. If you pour water on the panels, does the water boil ???
I would melt right then and there. That's 111F for you fahrenheit folks. But that's just air temperature. In my video, the air was 31C, but the panel sitting on the hot pavement all day was 60C. With your air temperature being 13C higher than mine, let's assume the panel is also that much hotter, so say your panel may be 73C. Let's do a bit of math to see what a typical panel voltage drop would be. 73C - 25C = 48C hotter than standard test conditions (STC). I looked up the spec for a Canadian Solar polycrystalline panel, and it loses 0.34 %/℃. If we multiply that by the number C that it is hotter than STC, .34% x 48 = 16% loss. So temperature accounts for half of your loss. You may also have some voltage drop from the wires, dirt on the panels, less than perfect angle, etcetera, which could all add up to another 15% loss.
Love your site. Question : I just bought a 24' RV. I am going as much 12 Volt as possible with Solar. The problem is. I'm leaning as I go. So could you give me a ideal what would be the best videos to watch first being a beginner. Thanks in Advance. Terry :)
Terrific, welcome. We did put together a small RV kit, you can take a look at it here, www.altestore.com/store/solar-power-systems/off-grid-cabin-solar-power-systems/rv-solar-panel-300-watt-kit-p40521/. But to learn about solar, so you can determine what size system you need, I'd start with our off-grid design playlist. It will step you through determining your loads, solar array, and battery bank. th-cam.com/play/PLoHd6hGDqS07bbZkyi_4ntfiySUKjPsUL.html You can also check out the blog article we did on RVs and solar, www.altestore.com/blog/2016/07/solar-panels-for-rv/
Thanks so much for the information. Its appreciated and I will start on these Sites today. I'm a Subscriber now and will be watching. You do a Great Job on your Videos. Thanks Again. Terry :)
One more thing. I am going to try and run everything but the Air Conditioning with Solar. From what I've seen it take a Huge Set Up for Solar Air. Again. Just learning. Maybe this is an option to. Want to stay as Simple as possible. Thanks Again. Terry :)
Again : One more thing. I don't use a Microwave. :)
You are right, anything that makes heat or cold uses a lot of electricity. The AC may be best reserved for when you have shore power, or a generator. While it can be done with solar, it will take a lot of panels and batteries.
Get a hat on girl. You don't want to wrinkle or get skin cancer...
Thanks for your concern. I wear a lot of sunscreen. I'm a boater, I'm very careful outside.
Awesome. I could tell you are intelligent. I just see far too many people outside with no protection, and then they wonder why they shrivel up like an old tomato...