“Devils are what you would get if you gave phenomenal godlike powers to a bunch of divorce attorneys, loan sharks and dictators. Demons are what you would get if you combined the concept of hatred itself with a black hole. Now, here’s the kicker: the divorce attorneys, loan sharks and dictators are undeniably horrible, but they’re also the ones in charge of keeping the giant angry black hole from eating the universe.” - my Stepdad, explaining the difference between Devils and Demons to 12-year-old me.
Realization: the infinite nature of the Abyss and the fact that there are a bunch of undiscovered layers is basically an open invitation for DMs to make their own demon lords (who canonically would probably be lesser known/less influential, but whatever)
Make the layer where everything is peaceful, I mean it, no catch, just a clean enviroment where you can settle down and live there, demon still acting the same though
I want to make a plan where the Demon Lord is entertained by the pain mortals feel through loss etc so he/she allows people to live etc without being completely decimated. It's as close to normal life in the Abyss someone can have in. Still harsh & horrible with the threat of demons is constant & the BBEG themselves. But, survivable. The BBEG gets to feed or whatever through the everyday sadnesses of the harsh life in the Abyss. Party ends up there somehow & yeah. Throw demons at them.
I'm pretty sure that the abyss was created by the Shard of Pure evil and it keeps getting deeper because the shard of pure evil bores it deeper and deeper hence why it's considered infinite
Quick pointer: hold onto the wand of orcus for 30 days in a random abyssal layer and you automatically become a demon lord or prince. Shouldnt be too hard, eh?
I've talked with my spiritual friend who is well versed in many faiths and esoteriscisms and the conclusion I have come to is thus; to defeat the abyss you need to have a really cool, Lord of the Rings quality campaign that focuses on moral and ethical victories, the metaphysical purpose of the Abyss and all other planes while at the same time, you and your party achieving Apotheosis. Interestingly, back in the day (Greco-Egyptian) Abussos was not necessarily bad but something you had to pass through when you die. The idea being you need to peice yourself back together after ego death.
Zachary Adams hate to break it you, buuuut...as long as the idea of evil exists, so too will the abyss. Any attempts at removing it, sooner or later, another will just appear
If mere gods could do something about it then the newest generation of demons would not exist. Demons formed from the consumed and corrupted corpses of gods arrogant enough to believe they could strike at the abyss and not have it strike back. Maybe the Overgod could do something but so far that being has either chosen not to and cannot do anymore than they have. So the Abyss can be assumed to be a true existential threat to all of reality, gods included.
“In the abyss, there is nothing impartial but death. For all living creatures death is sure to eventually come. Death is the equalizer, it is an absolute truth, and it’s always lingering just within reach of us. People make the best use of their wits and courage, struggling, floundering, they cling to life until the very end, and soon we realize, this unjust and indifferent world, it’s just the way we like it”
Man just the way AJ gets the lore like this in incredible. It definitely gets your audience going. You are one of the better things about D&D lore on TH-cam here.
I have a paradise layer I created in my campaigns. Reality TV was not yet a thing. People in that paradise are inspired to conflict with each other, often manipulated into it. It was enjoyed a bunch of times. My players loved using the device to transport them there. One player with a True Seeing artifact saw it for what it was. Every inhabitant was a succubus or disintegrating soul and their healing there was the thing that bolstered their enemy's attacks on them, damage wise. One of my player's Quasite familiars spoke up at the time of the discovery. "Don't worry. It's a succubi plane. They actually follow rules more than any other demon should. Master, I say we move there." The CE mage was hated by the other players at that point. So... the "paradise plane" was ghosted. That did not stop the inhabitants from trying to get them to come back. Also, I always treated The Abyss as an infinite chaotic evil plane. The whole layering number is and was a ruse to make people believe that there is some form of order. In my campaigns, I have a precedent on how to run them called "cubing the sphere". No, it's not like the 2nd Ed spell of that name. It is a rule I created because I was used to gamers that read all the related books and MOST cannot plan their tactics on a new creature to their character without the knowledge of the books. I slightly alter all life with every new campaign, "cubing the sphere". It made many people who read up on the monsters backfire with special tactics that only people who read the DM material knew before-hand would know... bad role-play backfire. I had a special Sehaguin god avatar get special power and heal by electricity. I had Bronze Golems heal against cold magic even though they are immune to fire and splatter molten metal on anyone that damage them... I wrote that in as a forging nugget. I had Red Dragons go from being vulnerable to cold to being vulnerable to corrosive gas (the Gold Dragon 2nd breath weapon akin to Green Dragons). Sorry for the rant but I am getting to a point. Beings from The Abyss, I almost abuse Cubing the Sphere. I pull things out of the air. I roll a die and apply that many weaknesses and that many strengths. Usually one and one, but I roll a die for the "boss fights". Even my veteran players are wary of Abyssal beings.
I've been playing D&D since it's inception in 1974. In 1977, I created a 1st ed. fighter/ranger. It took twenty years of solid playing for my character to reach a cumulative level of 114. In 1997 we were playing the last module of the four module Bloodstone campaign. My character, and four of his adventuring companions of equally high level, finally made it to The Palace of Bones (Orcus's main place of residence) in the Abyss. Even with my character as high level as he was, he still had his toughest battle ever when he squared off with Orcus himself. His companions dealt with the numerous demons and undead that were summoned in during the battle. Eventually, my character defeated Orcus. However, he himself was severely beaten and battered in the epic battle. The Abyss and its denizens, especially the demon lords, is no joke!!
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he there by become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche~
There are many layers of the Abyss that can contain numerous disparate realms like Layer 99 in Tales From the Outer Plane. One can be similar to a layer of Carceri, planetoids floating in an airy void, each orb reflecting the nature of the petty demon noble that rules it. Another layer can be shaped like a tesseract like the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga with each realm on one side of the tesseract.
(Your face when) you find out the abyss is actually nothing more than an intentionally guided creation of THEE mega dungeon that if you reach the end earns you a position as an Overdiety.
AJ, I have to tell you. I found your channel a couple weeks ago and I have been binge-watching your videos. And having a GREAT TIME! Thanks man. I really appreciate your work.
I just like that they are again called Devils and Demons. As someone who started with AD&D 1st ed. and lived through the 'Satanic panic' I always hated Baatezu and Tanar'ri (Obyrith, Loumara ... ) Refreshing to get back to that at least even if everything else has changed. Yes, I know they are still often called Baatezu and Tanar'ri but many people ignore those terms.
If the abyss is infinite, imagine a layer and it exists Same things with demon lords, if you imagine one it exists My theory on this is: while they may exist, they are outside of the true power structures we know in the source material In essence, the abyss is so vast, connects to so many prime worlds that my home brew abyssal lords cernios, vulvbra and qu'trac'jus terrorize my world and ally, backstab, reconcile with each other constantly, in the abyss the true powers like demogorgon et al barely know of them. To the lords close to their own layers, yes theyre well known, just not to most other abyssal lords and certainly not mortal sages
So what about the "Shard of Pure Evil" at the heart of the Abyss- what is it exactly? Where did it come from? What properties does it have? How can it be reached? And can it be destroyed?
I am astounded that spells like summon lesser or greater demon don't have text that says something like, "roll on this table to see if a devil or celestial comes to murder you for siding with the enemy"
It is simple. Mortals are exempt from those rules. That is not to say they are unaware or apathetic but that they are contained by divine law to only get involved under very specific conditions. Sides, why would a devil attack you for giving them a possible free ticket to uncounted potential souls?
Reminds me of something I read in the past that the only reason the blood war remains a stalemate is because the demons fight eachother as much if not more than the devils and should they decide to simply work together and swarm the devils then the demons would swarm all realms and win.
I once introduced an adventuring party to a layer of the Abyss that looked like an idealized pastoral place filled with Care Bears, Smurfs, and My Little Ponies (all with demon powers and abilities). The players quickly declared this to be the 666th layer, the foulest and most evil plane in existence. A demon from this realm that escaped into the mortal world was a Raggedy Ann with medusa powers, but instead of stone her petrification turned people into plush and stuffing.
I've always seen the abyss as the demons that show up in it.. starts out you feel violated as a manes, ends up as you take all that forbidden knowledge and use it for your own advantage like the sibriex, then you act like the balor
I would LOVE to hear some descriptions of random abyssal layers! Your description of Franz..Urloo-whatever's domain was down right captivating. And there are so many layers to choose from, too!
According to the original manuel of the planes, one of the abysal realms was sentinant; the entire plane was alive and filled with malice at intruders. I always thought that was kick ass but to be avoided if possible.
83b5'th layer of the Abyss is a place, where actual ground is covered with orange and blue strings, trying to cover everything that isn't in constant motion. Basically everything is trying to choke players and absorb them as string puppets in services to THE LOOM!
I disagree. Chaos in it's purest form is in Limbo. There is no malicious nature, no intention, no desire. All those things give things order. There is no demon that wants peace. Their consistency is in their evil nature and desire for destruction, torment, and suffering. Demons are honestly the biggest threat to the multiverse. The idea of a great balance is a lie. What should happen is the devils should be assisted in killing all demons, destroying the abyss, and then all the forces of good can kill off all the forces of lawful evil. That would end the blood war, but it would also end a large source of conflict for the D&D multiverse, so no one will actually try it.
Since the abyss is a lower plane maybe it’s decaying due to it being filled with negative energy. That’s part of the reason they need to add new layers.
Listening to this made me think of Hollow Nnight and its fallen kingdom Hallownest. There is a area formally called the Abyss, but it has been known to extend to parts of Hallownest. I know this isn’t a Hollow Knight channel, but is it possible that parts of Hollownest, if not the entire kingdom, are actually an extension of the Abyss outsiders (this case being bugs) keep trying to control and eventually fail? I love dnd and have most recently become interested in Hollow Knight. Might even build a DnD campaign with Hollow Knight elements mixed in.
So the abyss has always been fascinating to me and I want to run a campaign at some point that would have the party delve within its depths to confront a demon lord that is causing them problems. (Obviously at higher levels) The issue is that even at higher levels the abyss strikes me as the kind of place that is danger incarnate and suicide to explore but I don’t want to totally tpk the party by having them be swarmed by the hoards of demons that roam about. (I know It’s a party of 4 not a platoon of devils but I have trouble suspending disbelief that the hoards would just ignore the presence of mortals without a significant reason why they wouldn’t know they were there or why they wouldn’t care) Essentially I want to get the feel of danger and some decently challenging encounters without either babying the players or killing my players outright. Anyone have any tips?
Alright so here is the way to run a abyss campaign first off... don't! Through any attempt to get your players into the abyss they will attempt to get out a soon as possible however if they cannot excape first thing your going to want to do is Explain the enviorment and all the ways it can kill them. (the key it to have it seem that it could kill them at any time then through them finding a way to excape the demons will eventually find out that a group of random mortals came around and well... who knows what happens probably some sort of trial and error have everything chaotic and evil as you can think of just not happing to them.
Just make the experience as chaotic and evil as possible just not torwards your players, Nothsa Rekcap. Remember: the main rule to the abyss is survival, to kill or to be killed everything else goes and sometimes not even that.
I'd say the abyss is the negative energy that dwells within us all.. you put it out in life then go into eternity and it stays, doesn't disintegrate just adds up and changes into worse and worse until armageddon lol
I scrolled down to find anyone else asking about the image at 10:32. That's a nice picture but I don't recognize who it is of. The Abyss appears to be the primary cause of warps in reality. Could it be that mortal magic is demonic in origin? How much magic existed before the shard tore into the elemental chaos? Was magic only used by gods? Perhaps all magic in use by mortals is ichor and belief is how gods heal. The shard tore reality and the weave is the fray?
Sometimes I feel like I'm quoting something I haven't read. Is that how magic works in that series? There is always something else I need to read. Thanks for the suggestion. :)
The difference between demons and devils is plain as day but what I don't understand is what's the difference between demons and Primordials? they are both chaotic evil they are both of chaos i mean hell what's the difference between the abyss and the elemental chaos? >_
Three ways.. first, Manes get killed all the time, but they dissolve into a putrid mist and simply reform after a day, unless they are consumed by a Demon Lord, in which case their essence is consumed and utterly destroyed. On very rare occasions, a particularly destructive and resourceful Mane is transformed into a higher order of demon, this is usually the action of a Demon Lord, simply expending energy to create a larger force of demons, or it may happen spontaneously, when large numbers of demons are slain and reforming, or the Mane can slowly grow in power by consuming other Manes. Manes are the fodder of the Abyss, and their existence is constant agony, so, they are always 100% ready to charge into suicidal combat, as death, even a temporary one, is their only relief. Manes are sometimes abused in highly creative and brutal fashion, sometimes rendered into parts for infernal machines of destruction, sometimes mutated into twisted beasts or more specialised, mute and tormented servitors.
For me you can take control of certain layers. Like 1-50 but you can't take control over all of it because it is so massive and always changing. The new Lawful forces can stop the plains they are on from changing but only so long as they hold power.
thats all i wanted to know about the difference between hell and the abyss a lot of holes fixed thank you so much because after the glasya video i was sorta confused
It should be after the more normal denizens of the abyss for full effect and context, but I'd love to see one on the Bebilith. A spider infestation worthy of the abyss.
Yah, they're in the core pathfinder monster manual and I know I read a more extensive bit on them somewhere (such as one of the "X Monsters Revisited" books) but I'm not sure where and I can't find it anymore.
Bebelith are a hell of a thing. Back in 2e a high level party of adventurers (i was gm for this game) traveled to the abyss in order to retrieve a celestial artifact that was stolen and hidden in one of the dark planes of the abyss (the now abandoned demon web pits of Llolth )found a bebelith, thought it was just some left over pet of llolth, got completely wrecked by that thing.
Surely Tiamat should own a plain within the Abyss? instead of kinda tacked onto the 9 hells as an afterthought. As a complete force of destruction and utter primordial power and predation and selfish gain, her and dragon flights / spawn are uniquely suited and able to wage an endless war for it's own thrill? if I recall does not her own realm within Krynn's lore get called the "Abyss"? And if not, hell what a twist if the ultimate answer to supress the power of the Abyss is Tiamat and the Chromatic Dragons?
Tiamat is a god and has yet to deign to conquer a layer of the abyss. I suppose she could as any being of sufficient power can claim a layer but not sure she has reason to.
@@jacobfreeman5444 Tiamat is shackled to reside within Avernus, the first layer of the Nine Hells. The reason and circumstances for her being there are likely known only to her and Asmodeus, but she's definitely not free to go barging into the Abyss.
In my cosmos you can't destroy realms limbo can't exist if machines is destroyed there must be evil for there to be good and there must be law for there to be chaos
665th layer - go through portal and on your "fall" a wind fillets the flesh from your bones...repeat the portal "fall", infinite loop --- ooooo damn, that would be horrific.
I recently bought a small cottage on tbe 66th layer of the Abyss just a few blocks away from Lolths pad! Shes such a sweet neighbor never nosy and she always cleans up after her dog does his business on the front lawn 😎 I live a charmed life! 👹😈👺👿
Find the shard of evil in the abyss and get rid of it. Then the abyss loses its power or blows up. My money on the abyss to punt the Devils if the blood wars break out again.
If Obox-Ob is ever restored to full power, the Abyss will once again tear into the multiverse and reality for gods and mortals alike will become a nightmare blend of elemental chaos and the Far Realm.
what about those that constantly worship demons? coz we have followers that are faithful to Orcus or Lolth and yet they're not usually torn apart the moment they summon them.
@@mikifauns I tend to presume that he hauls off and hits you with a club. If you manage not to die then ok your worthy of working for him for a bit. Then until he gets to murder the whole multiverse. Honestly Orcus is one of the more insane threats to all life. I'm shocked Bane's church hasn't tried to get rid of him. Bane's ideology is like the Nine Hells. You would think they would want Orcus gone. Him and Graz'zt both should be on most churches hit lists.
I assume it's harder to find art for the more eldritch-like massive demons so he probably had to find the closest approximation, and besides, it's d&d. Anything can be anything here
How comes Lolth made her home in the abyss, isn't she lawful? Or did they change her alignment? Same for vampires, aren't they lawful as a basic trait ? Should t they have a different origin/ patron that isn't Orcus? Someone lawful, evil I mean. What about the effect yeenogu has on minotaurs? What is it?
numbering, naming, describing, and mapping the "layers" of The Abyss is just lawful beings (likely the devils) trying to apply some sort of order to what is, in actuality, a writhing mass of shifting chaos 8)
Wait around 18 minutes in it said unclaimed souls end up in the abyss. I thought unclaimed souls ended up in the very bottom of the 9 hells where Admodeus true body is that he feeds off of to restore his original body? Alongside those who not only dont worship one but actively fight against and hate?
Hey AJ, ever thought about doing videos of D&D content you've homebrewed? I know you are or will be offering to do that as a paid service, but how about a free sample? I'd personally love to see a detailed run down of a new plane of the Abyss or maybe the Far Realm...
The only instance I can think of is where the Blood War was paused for a little while to deal with the Mindflayers, who were taking over the prime material plane.
Man thanks I love this the monster manual like I said in some of my old text my first monster manual I want to say I was about 9 maybe 12 years old I had a weird upbringing born in December a Sagittarius
I’m wanting to run a campaign where the players at higher levels go into the abyss to fight a demon lord that has been messing with their minds, but the abyss as is very clear seems incredibly hostile and I don’t want to kill my players by having them swarmed constantly and without a chance for a long or short rest as soon as they enter the abyss, is there any way you could reasonably survive in the abyss when traveling there???
Most of the abyss is fairly demon sparse, they tend to mass up around the big bads and so there are large areas with not many demons around. If the characters DO NOT DRAW ATTENTION THROUGH ANY DESTRUCTION OR VIOLENCE they may remain under the demon radar. Otherwise, they will get swarmed and torn to bits.
@@AJPickett yeah the whole plot is sort of based on a similar concept to the roko’s basilisk thought experiment but with a dnd twist of what if an inevitable ended up getting corrupted by the abyss and now there’s a flaw in its order to where it still views itself as absolute law and chaos as abhorrent but can’t see that it itself has become tainted by chaos while still trying to enforce law in a way that causes more mayhem. And of course the new demon lord will if it can tap into the minds of mortal creatures and test them to see if they are a threat to its warped view of order or an ally, and if they’re a threat they will be trapped in that simulation to die and repeat the cycle until they break free by confronting it in the simulation. Our group has inadvertently created a few new demons through chains of events. Like what if Zariel fell a second time and became a demon lord now? Since she broke a divine contract with Asmodeus would an inevitable pursue her? And if so what would happen if the inevitable too became corrupted. And lastly What would happen if someone planted a seed from the apple of the gulthias tree in the abyss on the banks of the river Styx I just love how there’s so much lore to play around with but admittedly sometimes we get a bit too ambitious and need to make some major repairs to the cosmology lol 😂
Sounds like the devil's got the short end of the stick by committing the ultimate sacrifice. The "good" gods seem the most evil by comparison, they seem absolutely selfish and thus cause the devils to be selfish and prolong basically the destruction of their own ideals as a byproduct of what is essentially their sins, the hypocrites. Good to know, my drow who wishes to overthrow lolth by his own means of which he fucks with everyone and dragging out everyone's mistakes and making them face them in the grueleist way possible, will love this information, as he sees the hidden consequences of the world, and forces the people's eyes open. Hes very mad at the world, and disappointed in a lot of ways. For example of how he works and thinks, when you made that demon that possesses skin, in the story you put out, the man was doomed to die from the skin demon because the priests wouldnt help him and he didn't have enough coin. In my own little fan version, my drow would have forced the demon to posses him instead, and trap the demon and absorb his consciousness, gaining some of the abilities of the demon through stretching his skin like pieces of cloth and some resistances. He would then "haunt" the priest who, in his mind, didn't act very "priestly" (and here I thought these surface dwellers were supposed to be nice? Well, if he wants to act like a drow, then I'll show him what becomes of that) and force him to give up gold for his penance and learn his lesson in charity well. So hes a criminal, but he saved the priest and man respectfully, now the priest can go to heaven, learning his lesson here instead of in hell, the man is saved, and the drow gains a cool new ability and some gold. He does "good" through some "bad" means, but he gets the job done. Maybe the gods approve too idk. But yeah, vengeance throigh utility is a bitch.
would the abyss in real life be space, a black hole/dark star or the space between universes?.. infinitely deep. is earth a hell dimension?.. or´d the abyss be on a molecular level? tiny devils ;).
“Devils are what you would get if you gave phenomenal godlike powers to a bunch of divorce attorneys, loan sharks and dictators. Demons are what you would get if you combined the concept of hatred itself with a black hole. Now, here’s the kicker: the divorce attorneys, loan sharks and dictators are undeniably horrible, but they’re also the ones in charge of keeping the giant angry black hole from eating the universe.”
- my Stepdad, explaining the difference between Devils and Demons to 12-year-old me.
Sound about right
That's amazing actually. Can I rip that off? I'll give credit to your dad
@@caplorunnin 👍
Realization: the infinite nature of the Abyss and the fact that there are a bunch of undiscovered layers is basically an open invitation for DMs to make their own demon lords (who canonically would probably be lesser known/less influential, but whatever)
Absolutely.
Make the layer where everything is peaceful, I mean it, no catch, just a clean enviroment where you can settle down and live there, demon still acting the same though
I want to make a plan where the Demon Lord is entertained by the pain mortals feel through loss etc so he/she allows people to live etc without being completely decimated. It's as close to normal life in the Abyss someone can have in. Still harsh & horrible with the threat of demons is constant & the BBEG themselves. But, survivable. The BBEG gets to feed or whatever through the everyday sadnesses of the harsh life in the Abyss. Party ends up there somehow & yeah. Throw demons at them.
I'm pretty sure that the abyss was created by the Shard of Pure evil and it keeps getting deeper because the shard of pure evil bores it deeper and deeper hence why it's considered infinite
I want to put that shard on a stick
I think the shard is the 4e origin story for the Abyss. It's my favorite, but there are others.
Actually yes that is known cannon
Quick pointer: hold onto the wand of orcus for 30 days in a random abyssal layer and you automatically become a demon lord or prince. Shouldnt be too hard, eh?
I've talked with my spiritual friend who is well versed in many faiths and esoteriscisms and the conclusion I have come to is thus; to defeat the abyss you need to have a really cool, Lord of the Rings quality campaign that focuses on moral and ethical victories, the metaphysical purpose of the Abyss and all other planes while at the same time, you and your party achieving Apotheosis.
Interestingly, back in the day (Greco-Egyptian) Abussos was not necessarily bad but something you had to pass through when you die.
The idea being you need to peice yourself back together after ego death.
Zachary Adams hate to break it you, buuuut...as long as the idea of evil exists, so too will the abyss. Any attempts at removing it, sooner or later, another will just appear
@@johnnyscifi fair point, fair point. But, hear me out now, counterpoint- that would be no fun.
If mere gods could do something about it then the newest generation of demons would not exist. Demons formed from the consumed and corrupted corpses of gods arrogant enough to believe they could strike at the abyss and not have it strike back. Maybe the Overgod could do something but so far that being has either chosen not to and cannot do anymore than they have. So the Abyss can be assumed to be a true existential threat to all of reality, gods included.
Putting Artorias at 8:08 when introducing the ways to contain the abyss was spot on. Bravo!
“In the abyss, there is nothing impartial but death. For all living creatures death is sure to eventually come. Death is the equalizer, it is an absolute truth, and it’s always lingering just within reach of us. People make the best use of their wits and courage, struggling, floundering, they cling to life until the very end, and soon we realize, this unjust and indifferent world, it’s just the way we like it”
You just wrote the monologue of my abyss BBEG. I thank you
Man just the way AJ gets the lore like this in incredible. It definitely gets your audience going. You are one of the better things about D&D lore on TH-cam here.
I appreciate it
They are rage, brutal, without mercy.
The Demonic Taint. And thus my next homebrewed fermented hot sauce was named.
I have a paradise layer I created in my campaigns. Reality TV was not yet a thing. People in that paradise are inspired to conflict with each other, often manipulated into it. It was enjoyed a bunch of times. My players loved using the device to transport them there. One player with a True Seeing artifact saw it for what it was. Every inhabitant was a succubus or disintegrating soul and their healing there was the thing that bolstered their enemy's attacks on them, damage wise. One of my player's Quasite familiars spoke up at the time of the discovery. "Don't worry. It's a succubi plane. They actually follow rules more than any other demon should. Master, I say we move there." The CE mage was hated by the other players at that point. So... the "paradise plane" was ghosted. That did not stop the inhabitants from trying to get them to come back. Also, I always treated The Abyss as an infinite chaotic evil plane. The whole layering number is and was a ruse to make people believe that there is some form of order. In my campaigns, I have a precedent on how to run them called "cubing the sphere". No, it's not like the 2nd Ed spell of that name. It is a rule I created because I was used to gamers that read all the related books and MOST cannot plan their tactics on a new creature to their character without the knowledge of the books. I slightly alter all life with every new campaign, "cubing the sphere". It made many people who read up on the monsters backfire with special tactics that only people who read the DM material knew before-hand would know... bad role-play backfire. I had a special Sehaguin god avatar get special power and heal by electricity. I had Bronze Golems heal against cold magic even though they are immune to fire and splatter molten metal on anyone that damage them... I wrote that in as a forging nugget. I had Red Dragons go from being vulnerable to cold to being vulnerable to corrosive gas (the Gold Dragon 2nd breath weapon akin to Green Dragons). Sorry for the rant but I am getting to a point. Beings from The Abyss, I almost abuse Cubing the Sphere. I pull things out of the air. I roll a die and apply that many weaknesses and that many strengths. Usually one and one, but I roll a die for the "boss fights". Even my veteran players are wary of Abyssal beings.
Interesting take on the abyss, reminds me of what the spellweavers plan to do to the multiverse.
I've been playing D&D since it's inception in 1974. In 1977, I created a 1st ed. fighter/ranger. It took twenty years of solid playing for my character to reach a cumulative level of 114. In 1997 we were playing the last module of the four module Bloodstone campaign. My character, and four of his adventuring companions of equally high level, finally made it to The Palace of Bones (Orcus's main place of residence) in the Abyss. Even with my character as high level as he was, he still had his toughest battle ever when he squared off with Orcus himself. His companions dealt with the numerous demons and undead that were summoned in during the battle. Eventually, my character defeated Orcus. However, he himself was severely beaten and battered in the epic battle. The Abyss and its denizens, especially the demon lords, is no joke!!
Lol, hope you had fun.
OMG I've never made it past 18th level
That's pretty unrealistic. You would still lose like a baby fighting a pit bull.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he there by become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche~
Well said
A good quote as well as a good summary of what the abyss is and what is can do to you
Everyone gangsta until 3E Demogorgon or Orcus show up.
Keep your 5E easy mode.
1st edition was all we ever needed. Orcus is a boss
There are many layers of the Abyss that can contain numerous disparate realms like Layer 99 in Tales From the Outer Plane. One can be similar to a layer of Carceri, planetoids floating in an airy void, each orb reflecting the nature of the petty demon noble that rules it. Another layer can be shaped like a tesseract like the Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga with each realm on one side of the tesseract.
Yep, the very nature of the Abyss is chaos, so, pretty much anything is possible. :)
“Nothing is too destructive” Immediately shows a Terrasque.
ruff ruff ruff
😂
(Your face when) you find out the abyss is actually nothing more than an intentionally guided creation of THEE mega dungeon that if you reach the end earns you a position as an Overdiety.
Watching both Warhammer 40k and Dungeons and Dragons while Reading the SCP Foundation is hard
Raymond Narvaez piss in the abyss
Makes me wonder, did some SCPs like The Flesh That Hates spring forth from the Abyss?
Possibly
@@bluecollarcanuck a lot of these universes have eldritch abominations as the most ancient beings in existance, maybe they all connected
Throw in the Cuthulu Mythos too
So basically the Abyss is an infection? Interesting concept!
my favorite was Ojukalazogadit. The layer is in fact a single vast demon prince.
AJ, I have to tell you. I found your channel a couple weeks ago and I have been binge-watching your videos.
And having a GREAT TIME!
Thanks man. I really appreciate your work.
I just like that they are again called Devils and Demons. As someone who started with AD&D 1st ed. and lived through the 'Satanic panic' I always hated Baatezu and Tanar'ri (Obyrith, Loumara ... )
Refreshing to get back to that at least even if everything else has changed.
Yes, I know they are still often called Baatezu and Tanar'ri but many people ignore those terms.
Why do you hate it? I honestly like those terms more; devils and demons sounds too generic to me.
Funnily enough, they’re still using Yugoloth as the middle kid instead of Daemon
It says something about the Drow that even Demons give them a modicum of respect.
Descriptions of the layers in the Abyss is an itch I just can't scratch enough. Do a video for every know layer please. ;p
GORELORD13 - Not just the known levels.
Do videos on the unknown levels too!
If the abyss is infinite, imagine a layer and it exists
Same things with demon lords, if you imagine one it exists
My theory on this is: while they may exist, they are outside of the true power structures we know in the source material
In essence, the abyss is so vast, connects to so many prime worlds that my home brew abyssal lords cernios, vulvbra and qu'trac'jus terrorize my world and ally, backstab, reconcile with each other constantly, in the abyss the true powers like demogorgon et al barely know of them. To the lords close to their own layers, yes theyre well known, just not to most other abyssal lords and certainly not mortal sages
So what about the "Shard of Pure Evil" at the heart of the Abyss- what is it exactly? Where did it come from? What properties does it have? How can it be reached? And can it be destroyed?
The more recent videos answer these questions, The wind dukes, obyrith, astral Dreadnaught videos in particular.
@@AJPickett ok thanks. I will check those out.
I am astounded that spells like summon lesser or greater demon don't have text that says something like, "roll on this table to see if a devil or celestial comes to murder you for siding with the enemy"
It is simple. Mortals are exempt from those rules. That is not to say they are unaware or apathetic but that they are contained by divine law to only get involved under very specific conditions. Sides, why would a devil attack you for giving them a possible free ticket to uncounted potential souls?
Reminds me of something I read in the past that the only reason the blood war remains a stalemate is because the demons fight eachother as much if not more than the devils and should they decide to simply work together and swarm the devils then the demons would swarm all realms and win.
I once introduced an adventuring party to a layer of the Abyss that looked like an idealized pastoral place filled with Care Bears, Smurfs, and My Little Ponies (all with demon powers and abilities). The players quickly declared this to be the 666th layer, the foulest and most evil plane in existence. A demon from this realm that escaped into the mortal world was a Raggedy Ann with medusa powers, but instead of stone her petrification turned people into plush and stuffing.
I find that even more terrifying
If the Abyss is supposedly Infinite, then that could be a very real layer
I'll never look at Smurfs the same again.
I've always seen the abyss as the demons that show up in it.. starts out you feel violated as a manes, ends up as you take all that forbidden knowledge and use it for your own advantage like the sibriex, then you act like the balor
I would LOVE to hear some descriptions of random abyssal layers! Your description of Franz..Urloo-whatever's domain was down right captivating. And there are so many layers to choose from, too!
According to the original manuel of the planes, one of the abysal realms was sentinant; the entire plane was alive and filled with malice at intruders. I always thought that was kick ass but to be avoided if possible.
I would think the void layer would be the layer you want to avoid the most.
83b5'th layer of the Abyss is a place, where actual ground is covered with orange and blue strings, trying to cover everything that isn't in constant motion. Basically everything is trying to choke players and absorb them as string puppets in services to THE LOOM!
Basically the devils are the representation of necessary evil whereas the demons are the embodiment of chaos in its purest form.
I disagree. Chaos in it's purest form is in Limbo. There is no malicious nature, no intention, no desire. All those things give things order. There is no demon that wants peace. Their consistency is in their evil nature and desire for destruction, torment, and suffering.
Demons are honestly the biggest threat to the multiverse. The idea of a great balance is a lie. What should happen is the devils should be assisted in killing all demons, destroying the abyss, and then all the forces of good can kill off all the forces of lawful evil. That would end the blood war, but it would also end a large source of conflict for the D&D multiverse, so no one will actually try it.
No. Devils are Tyranny, demons are evil, with no regard for structure. Close...:)
In God terms...Bane v Cyric
Kyle limbo being chaotic neutral
Ps: chaos isnt inherently evil, or good
Since the abyss is a lower plane maybe it’s decaying due to it being filled with negative energy. That’s part of the reason they need to add new layers.
The Abyss is alive.
I really enjoy the Abyss. Well some of it. Specifically Juiblex and the oozes and Zuggtmoy. As well as the Nalfeshnee race
Listening to this made me think of Hollow Nnight and its fallen kingdom Hallownest. There is a area formally called the Abyss, but it has been known to extend to parts of Hallownest. I know this isn’t a Hollow Knight channel, but is it possible that parts of Hollownest, if not the entire kingdom, are actually an extension of the Abyss outsiders (this case being bugs) keep trying to control and eventually fail?
I love dnd and have most recently become interested in Hollow Knight. Might even build a DnD campaign with Hollow Knight elements mixed in.
So the abyss has always been fascinating to me and I want to run a campaign at some point that would have the party delve within its depths to confront a demon lord that is causing them problems. (Obviously at higher levels)
The issue is that even at higher levels the abyss strikes me as the kind of place that is danger incarnate and suicide to explore but I don’t want to totally tpk the party by having them be swarmed by the hoards of demons that roam about. (I know It’s a party of 4 not a platoon of devils but I have trouble suspending disbelief that the hoards would just ignore the presence of mortals without a significant reason why they wouldn’t know they were there or why they wouldn’t care)
Essentially I want to get the feel of danger and some decently challenging encounters without either babying the players or killing my players outright.
Anyone have any tips?
Alright so here is the way to run a abyss campaign first off...
don't! Through any attempt to get your players into the abyss they will attempt to get out a soon as possible however if they cannot excape first thing your going to want to do is Explain the enviorment and all the ways it can kill them. (the key it to have it seem that it could kill them at any time then through them finding a way to excape the demons will eventually find out that a group of random mortals came around and well... who knows what happens probably some sort of trial and error have everything chaotic and evil as you can think of just not happing to them.
Just make the experience as chaotic and evil as possible just not torwards your players, Nothsa Rekcap. Remember: the main rule to the abyss is survival, to kill or to be killed everything else goes and sometimes not even that.
I'd say the abyss is the negative energy that dwells within us all..
you put it out in life then go into eternity and it stays, doesn't disintegrate just adds up and changes into worse and worse until armageddon lol
In the SCP Universe, The Obyrith are called Pattern Screamers. The Sibriex may be responsible for Sarkicism in the SCP Universe.
I feel sorry for those poor hypothetical artificial beings.
I scrolled down to find anyone else asking about the image at 10:32. That's a nice picture but I don't recognize who it is of.
The Abyss appears to be the primary cause of warps in reality. Could it be that mortal magic is demonic in origin?
How much magic existed before the shard tore into the elemental chaos? Was magic only used by gods?
Perhaps all magic in use by mortals is ichor and belief is how gods heal. The shard tore reality and the weave is the fray?
You should check out the Prince of nothing series
Sometimes I feel like I'm quoting something I haven't read. Is that how magic works in that series?
There is always something else I need to read. Thanks for the suggestion. :)
That is a fan art depicting Slaanesh, a chaos god of Warhammer fantasy, lord of excess and lust.
Thats funny that you say that, because your theory is exactly how magic works in Warhammer 40k.
I haven't played 40K yet but the asymmetrical mechanics fascinate me.
The difference between demons and devils is plain as day but what I don't understand is what's the difference between demons and Primordials? they are both chaotic evil they are both of chaos i mean hell what's the difference between the abyss and the elemental chaos? >_
Primordials generally don't have much to do with souls and don't give a toss about mortal life.
How does a Maine (Mane, Main?) get promoted to a greater form? Is it by time, by deed or something else?
Three ways.. first, Manes get killed all the time, but they dissolve into a putrid mist and simply reform after a day, unless they are consumed by a Demon Lord, in which case their essence is consumed and utterly destroyed. On very rare occasions, a particularly destructive and resourceful Mane is transformed into a higher order of demon, this is usually the action of a Demon Lord, simply expending energy to create a larger force of demons, or it may happen spontaneously, when large numbers of demons are slain and reforming, or the Mane can slowly grow in power by consuming other Manes. Manes are the fodder of the Abyss, and their existence is constant agony, so, they are always 100% ready to charge into suicidal combat, as death, even a temporary one, is their only relief. Manes are sometimes abused in highly creative and brutal fashion, sometimes rendered into parts for infernal machines of destruction, sometimes mutated into twisted beasts or more specialised, mute and tormented servitors.
For me you can take control of certain layers. Like 1-50 but you can't take control over all of it because it is so massive and always changing. The new Lawful forces can stop the plains they are on from changing but only so long as they hold power.
thats all i wanted to know about the difference between hell and the abyss a lot of holes fixed thank you so much because after the glasya video i was sorta confused
"it is akin to refusing to breathe or eat"
I shall remember to use that one with my players.
It should be after the more normal denizens of the abyss for full effect and context, but I'd love to see one on the Bebilith.
A spider infestation worthy of the abyss.
oh wow! I just realised they are not in the 5th edition monster manual.. well we better remedy that!
Yah, they're in the core pathfinder monster manual and I know I read a more extensive bit on them somewhere (such as one of the "X Monsters Revisited" books) but I'm not sure where and I can't find it anymore.
Bebelith are a hell of a thing. Back in 2e a high level party of adventurers (i was gm for this game) traveled to the abyss in order to retrieve a celestial artifact that was stolen and hidden in one of the dark planes of the abyss (the now abandoned demon web pits of Llolth )found a bebelith, thought it was just some left over pet of llolth, got completely wrecked by that thing.
Lolths demonweb pits enter the chat...
Welcome to another installment of RPG Lore online!
This is a great vid! Further reading of the Planescape box set Planes of Chaos D&D 2nd Ed is a good place to start.
Surely Tiamat should own a plain within the Abyss? instead of kinda tacked onto the 9 hells as an afterthought. As a complete force of destruction and utter primordial power and predation and selfish gain, her and dragon flights / spawn are uniquely suited and able to wage an endless war for it's own thrill? if I recall does not her own realm within Krynn's lore get called the "Abyss"?
And if not, hell what a twist if the ultimate answer to supress the power of the Abyss is Tiamat and the Chromatic Dragons?
Tiamat is a god and has yet to deign to conquer a layer of the abyss. I suppose she could as any being of sufficient power can claim a layer but not sure she has reason to.
She's too cool for our expectations.
@@jacobfreeman5444 Tiamat is shackled to reside within Avernus, the first layer of the Nine Hells. The reason and circumstances for her being there are likely known only to her and Asmodeus, but she's definitely not free to go barging into the Abyss.
In my cosmos you can't destroy realms limbo can't exist if machines is destroyed there must be evil for there to be good and there must be law for there to be chaos
665th layer - go through portal and on your "fall" a wind fillets the flesh from your bones...repeat the portal "fall", infinite loop --- ooooo damn, that would be horrific.
I recently bought a small cottage on tbe 66th layer of the Abyss just a few blocks away from Lolths pad! Shes such a sweet neighbor never nosy and she always cleans up after her dog does his business on the front lawn 😎 I live a charmed life! 👹😈👺👿
Find the shard of evil in the abyss and get rid of it. Then the abyss loses its power or blows up. My money on the abyss to punt the Devils if the blood wars break out again.
If Obox-Ob is ever restored to full power, the Abyss will once again tear into the multiverse and reality for gods and mortals alike will become a nightmare blend of elemental chaos and the Far Realm.
That would be really scary. As would what Demogorgon's response to all someone trying to replace him.
This is super creative writing.
Nice start to the series. Any info on this is welcome.
Cool. Is there any change with the abysse in the last edition?
They would have to actually write some lore for a change, so, not really no.
what about those that constantly worship demons? coz we have followers that are faithful to Orcus or Lolth and yet they're not usually torn apart the moment they summon them.
Not torn apart, but all demons corrupt whatever the deal with, in some way.
This is a universal constant.
I presume when you summon Orcus, he boops your nose and turns you into a lich or vampire.
@@mikifauns I tend to presume that he hauls off and hits you with a club. If you manage not to die then ok your worthy of working for him for a bit. Then until he gets to murder the whole multiverse. Honestly Orcus is one of the more insane threats to all life. I'm shocked Bane's church hasn't tried to get rid of him. Bane's ideology is like the Nine Hells. You would think they would want Orcus gone. Him and Graz'zt both should be on most churches hit lists.
19:55 isn’t a demon, he’s an elder ask and his name is Ulamog from the Blind Eternities which is the space between the different worlds of Magic.
I assume it's harder to find art for the more eldritch-like massive demons so he probably had to find the closest approximation, and besides, it's d&d. Anything can be anything here
eldrazi actually feel like oberyths of dnd universe, they bot have that old god lovecraftian theme around themselves
How comes Lolth made her home in the abyss, isn't she lawful? Or did they change her alignment?
Same for vampires, aren't they lawful as a basic trait ? Should t they have a different origin/ patron that isn't Orcus? Someone lawful, evil I mean.
What about the effect yeenogu has on minotaurs? What is it?
I think he confused Yeenoghu with Baphomet regarding minotaurs. Lolth is Chaotic Evil.
How does one even discover all these layers?
Painfully
@@AJPickett yeah, that makes sense for most layers, but for some, like layer 665, how do you even discover and record such a layer without dying?
numbering, naming, describing, and mapping the "layers" of The Abyss is just lawful beings (likely the devils) trying to apply some sort of order to what is, in actuality, a writhing mass of shifting chaos 8)
Great video by the way!
It is the time of demons, it is the time of chaos!
When it comes to demon ecology videos, expect the unexpected.
I really hope Balder's Gate III lets you explore this place.
Wait around 18 minutes in it said unclaimed souls end up in the abyss. I thought unclaimed souls ended up in the very bottom of the 9 hells where Admodeus true body is that he feeds off of to restore his original body? Alongside those who not only dont worship one but actively fight against and hate?
I may not remember correctly, but don't go atheist to Asmodeus? Also Neutral character go to him.
Hey AJ, ever thought about doing videos of D&D content you've homebrewed? I know you are or will be offering to do that as a paid service, but how about a free sample? I'd personally love to see a detailed run down of a new plane of the Abyss or maybe the Far Realm...
One hell of an intro bro! \m/
Has demons and devils ever worked together before? Can they work together for a common goal?
The only instance I can think of is where the Blood War was paused for a little while to deal with the Mindflayers, who were taking over the prime material plane.
The Abyss is like a box of chocolates...
There might also be only 333 layers because that's how many gems Tharizdun has.
I would love a video on the Queen of Chaos and Mishka the wolf spider
oooo well, you must be a fan of the rod of seven parts!
Man thanks I love this the monster manual like I said in some of my old text my first monster manual I want to say I was about 9 maybe 12 years old I had a weird upbringing born in December a Sagittarius
11:15 that must be the ballsiest person in the world
nevermind 13:30 there the ballsiest people in the world
lets sprinkle some warp dust on that cake and we are ready to go.
Great video are you from New Zealand mate
Sure am :)
Yo!!!i like this bit ya know once you say the abyss is a flaw or blight I think it’s a bit of a weird turn but I’m about it god bless
I’m wanting to run a campaign where the players at higher levels go into the abyss to fight a demon lord that has been messing with their minds, but the abyss as is very clear seems incredibly hostile and I don’t want to kill my players by having them swarmed constantly and without a chance for a long or short rest as soon as they enter the abyss, is there any way you could reasonably survive in the abyss when traveling there???
Most of the abyss is fairly demon sparse, they tend to mass up around the big bads and so there are large areas with not many demons around. If the characters DO NOT DRAW ATTENTION THROUGH ANY DESTRUCTION OR VIOLENCE they may remain under the demon radar. Otherwise, they will get swarmed and torn to bits.
@@AJPickett interesting I hadn’t considered that before thanks for the help
@@someoneonyoutube8622 any time 🙂
@@AJPickett yeah the whole plot is sort of based on a similar concept to the roko’s basilisk thought experiment but with a dnd twist of what if an inevitable ended up getting corrupted by the abyss and now there’s a flaw in its order to where it still views itself as absolute law and chaos as abhorrent but can’t see that it itself has become tainted by chaos while still trying to enforce law in a way that causes more mayhem. And of course the new demon lord will if it can tap into the minds of mortal creatures and test them to see if they are a threat to its warped view of order or an ally, and if they’re a threat they will be trapped in that simulation to die and repeat the cycle until they break free by confronting it in the simulation.
Our group has inadvertently created a few new demons through chains of events.
Like what if Zariel fell a second time and became a demon lord now?
Since she broke a divine contract with Asmodeus would an inevitable pursue her? And if so what would happen if the inevitable too became corrupted.
And lastly
What would happen if someone planted a seed from the apple of the gulthias tree in the abyss on the banks of the river Styx
I just love how there’s so much lore to play around with but admittedly sometimes we get a bit too ambitious and need to make some major repairs to the cosmology lol 😂
I would like to see a under dark episode, I think you could pull it off well.
this video is... abysmal (not really, I just couldn't resist the pun)
19:47 sir demons don’t have annihilator 🤣
How do humans enter the abyss, specifically the third layer?
Do you have a video about kostchichi?
Kostchtchie, giant demon lord of Wrath. No, but I can add him to my list.
You're the best AJ.
Do we have this video yet, guys? I would love a link
Do the demon web pits!!! that would be so amazing
The Demonweb pits are currently vacant. The rent is very reasonable, as long as you don't mind feeding minions to spindly legged horrors.
what about a video on the vistani? might be interesting
hmmm, had not considered that, I will take a look into it and see what I can do for you.
very good ^^
Thanks for the vid sir.
Can and do the blood war and the Dawn war intersect and interact?
Yes, more or less. Those are not places/times one wants to visit.
I can't find a canon reference for the manitou. Where did you find your resource material?
My detect evil senses are tingling
Sounds like the devil's got the short end of the stick by committing the ultimate sacrifice.
The "good" gods seem the most evil by comparison, they seem absolutely selfish and thus cause the devils to be selfish and prolong basically the destruction of their own ideals as a byproduct of what is essentially their sins, the hypocrites.
Good to know, my drow who wishes to overthrow lolth by his own means of which he fucks with everyone and dragging out everyone's mistakes and making them face them in the grueleist way possible, will love this information, as he sees the hidden consequences of the world, and forces the people's eyes open.
Hes very mad at the world, and disappointed in a lot of ways.
For example of how he works and thinks, when you made that demon that possesses skin, in the story you put out, the man was doomed to die from the skin demon because the priests wouldnt help him and he didn't have enough coin.
In my own little fan version, my drow would have forced the demon to posses him instead, and trap the demon and absorb his consciousness, gaining some of the abilities of the demon through stretching his skin like pieces of cloth and some resistances.
He would then "haunt" the priest who, in his mind, didn't act very "priestly" (and here I thought these surface dwellers were supposed to be nice? Well, if he wants to act like a drow, then I'll show him what becomes of that) and force him to give up gold for his penance and learn his lesson in charity well.
So hes a criminal, but he saved the priest and man respectfully, now the priest can go to heaven, learning his lesson here instead of in hell, the man is saved, and the drow gains a cool new ability and some gold.
He does "good" through some "bad" means, but he gets the job done.
Maybe the gods approve too idk.
But yeah, vengeance throigh utility is a bitch.
Rick James dwells in the Abyss
would the abyss in real life be space, a
black hole/dark star or the space between
universes?.. infinitely deep. is earth a hell
dimension?.. or´d the abyss be on a molecular
level? tiny devils ;).
Unknown, a parallel dimension?
Ah, so this is where all the murder hobo pcs go! :p
Ya got anything on Loth or the Drow???
yes
Where do I find a book that has all this information?
Serious question though!
so basically the devils protect the rest of the world and gods from being destroyed by the abyss …. so devils not bad just misunderstood
Yes, I'm so glad this exists. Finally they have found the way to make me want to read spider man again. 😮💨
All life is going to partake of the abyss in thier life, early on or if you dont deal with it early on you got to deal with it at the end of your life
Anybody who summons demons is an engineer. Wreak havoc now, explain yourself later
Anti Paladins may now hate they gods .... also weres my ally the aboleth