Thank you so much! this is probably the most useful video regarding desk chairs that I've come across and has made my decision making a lot easier now.
Since you mixed them up in the video: It might be worth mentioning that the Aeron is the one with different sizes to choose from but without seat depth adjustment, while the Mirra 2 is the one with seat depth adjustment but without different sizes.
Thanks for taking time to make all the great videos on your channel. I find them to be highly practical and so useful...without any marketing BS found everywhere on youtube. kudos ! 🍻
Thanks a lot for the very pinpointed compliment!! I just had a discussion with my marketing guys on the importance of playing the slow and honest game rather than falling into the quick marketing s..t that will kill my reputation on the long term. 😁
Got the Herman Miller Aeron, definitely one of the best high end office chairs available in the UK. No other company offers the same package as Herman Miller does over here, not even Steelcase and Haworth.
Currently sitting in an 8000-something Synchrone with red suede which I found recently second hand. I had a 6000-something FreeFloat before and I liked both mechanisms but the Synchrone is best. The Synchrone is the one on which the seat and back is synched.
I got stuck in a San Diego hotel working 7 hrs a day on my laptop. I am over 6 ft tall and my room had the only chair that didnt give me backpain..ever. Rather than being bold and stealing it, I took pictures of the brand name and serial number. It was a Herman Miller but I never found the chair. Thank you for pointing out that this chair has 3 sizes and several points of adjustment. I’ll try to find one again
There are many products on the market, you know!! I like those, but I do feel comfortable on many other chairs. My real goal is to empower you and everybody so that you can decide upon good criteriae :)
Thanks again for another informative video, my current issue with a gaming chair I’m testing from Costco, is the armrests positions are too wide and yes the seat is too deep, I also need 4D armrests where I can rotate in perfect alignment with my natural arms position when typing and mouse use. I’ve had that perfect chair in a big company, I never had any problem. I’m no longer working there, but WFH, I’m trying replicate this ergonomic setup so I can finally comfortably work. I love your channel!
Thank you Simon!! Also make sure that you have a lumbar support that is good enough: on many gaming chairs, the backrest is completely flat, which reduces the pressure at belt level (due to the thickness of the butt). Result is that you slouch on them...
As someone who does everything on the PC, I have no TV, so I watch everything on my PC as well as work and gaming, so the headrest is a very nice thing to have as it's also my chair for relaxing.
It is frustrating - one could look for hours for a chair. Would love to have a recommendation for an adjustable chair to start from. There aren’t places to go try them out (I live in Nevada, USA). Im 6’ 180lb. The Kinnarps +8 looks great but can’t even find it with Google. Appreciate the help! I have a kneeling chair and I think you’re right it’s over rotating my lower back forward
agreed, hard armrests, cuz your elbow to go numb after 4-5 hours, a solution would to be velour pads or leather pads, thats wat i do, and it works good! Thats why I like the mirra 2, and the haworth zody, soft armrests!, if its hard, i just bu velour pads for them.
Hi! I have indeed. I like these chairs, but only when they are blocked. We have different visions on stability vs movement. They have built their chair with the axis of rotation under the front edge of the seat pan, which makes the chair constantly moving. I don't agree with that: I recommend a stable chair that will truly support your weight when you work, whilst you take the responsibility for moving around at least every 30 min. Not everyone agrees with this, but I truly believe that the idea that movement = health creates a lot of damage (th-cam.com/video/Ndwmo333hxA/w-d-xo.html).
Excellent video! What do you think about the Hermann Miller Cosm ? I tried one with the fixed leaf arm rest but there is also a model that adjustable arm rest. Thanks in advance!
Thank you for the video. I see so many chair reviews for Americans but hardly any for Europeans. Do you have any chairs for Europeans to get, particularly in the mid range?
It depends on the country in which you live... but Kinnarps is rather well distributed in Europe (the 5000 model is a good midrange one). Dauphin is also a good brand, as well as Sitag Xilium
@@OlivierGirard Your video was super helpful for what to look for in a truly supportive chair. Thank you! I wanted to order the Kinnarps chair you use, but since I’m based in Washington DC the shipping is out of my price range. I also looked at the Just Magic 2 model you recommend, but shipping makes that hard too. Based on the Kinnarps and Just Magic 2 specs, I’ve searched for other models that seem similarly built and in closer shipping range. I’m curious if you have ever seen the below brands/ models and have an opinion on them. They are my top choices that I've found so far (but youtube won’t let me post this comment with the links) The Zody or Fern models by Haworth Gesture by Steelcase (Steelcase seems to have a few good options) Ergo3D by Nouhaus I’m 6 feet tall and have chronic neck, shoulder, and upper back pain, so a good office chair is so important. I'd be grateful for any of your expert guidance!
Finally I could find your comment, among all those which were deleted!! So...my apologies for the late reply! I know Haworth and Steelcase: 2/3 :) ! I recently intervened with someone who had the Zody chair, and somehow the plastic plate serving as a lumbar support was creating painful pressure points (whenever you see a hard material behind a mesh, you need to test first). It seemed broken so this may not happen normally, but if so, the durability of the chair is to be questioned. I have never seen the Fern but it looks good. The Gesture is also good (many of my clients use it). The Nouhaus is in my opinion a risky choice: the 2-parts backrest could potentially be super uncomfortable, esp. when you want to lean back for a break leaning back. Hence, my advice would be that you test the Fern vs. the Gesture. If you can't test (which I never recommend so much), the Gesture seems a safe choice :) Does this help?
Your highly informative advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you for your videos. I'll be looking into Kinnarps. It seems even better than those heavily marketed Herman Miller chairs. I wonder if it's more expensive.
Thank you very much indeed!! Kinnarps is less expensive than Herman Miller. Their entrance model (Claro) starts (in Switzerland) around $350, and my own chair (+8) is around $850. I also have a Herman Miller at home (Mirra), which I bought 15 years ago. It's a good brand, but I find it overpriced indeed. Furthermore, their chairs tend to be too wide and too deep, and the controls are not intuitive. It's the standard chair in several embassies; every time I intervene there I see that people haven't adjusted the tilt well, so they recline too much...
@@encapsulatio my chair is the Kinnarps +8: www.kinnarps.com/products/seating/task-chairs/plus/. But not every brand is distributed in every country, which makes it a bit difficult to give a unique recommendation for everybody :)
@@OlivierGirard Herman Miller chairs aren't overpriced, name a single chair brand that offers the same or better build quality, quality of adjustments and warranty. Unless you're talking about Steelcase or Haworth, no other company comes close enough.
Well they're not better than Herman Miller, that brand looks like a cheaper version of Steelcase and Haworth. Also, I'm not sure why you think Herman Miller chairs are heavily marketed, because unless you're actively searching for an office chair, you'd probably never hear about them. I didn't even know what Herman Miller was or what their chairs looked like until I literally started researching high end office chairs. If you like the Kinnarps chair, good for you, but don't ever cheap out on office chairs unless you want to keep replacing them.
Thank you so much for this! Kinnarps+8 looks amazing, adjustable head rests are extremely rare to find! I dont think i can buy it in my country, no site shows a price and you have to contact a showroom or something, is there any alternative? Note, i do use armrests while using the mouse and my left arm is currently on the armrest while typing
Hi dear! There are alternatives, of course. Other good brands include Dauphin, SteelCase, etc. My advice is that you go to my website: www.ergoh-conseil.ch/screen-work-training.html, and scroll down. You will find technical specs for office furniture, against which you can check any chair you find on the market. There's also an article on the usual traps. Bear in mind that you don't want to buy a chair without testing it first :-) !! If you still hesitate after using all this info, post the references of the model you consider here, and I'll tell you what I think... you just won free consulting, Sir 😂😂!!
Thank you Olivier for this information. Your videos are very much appreciated. I am short so it is hard to find a chair with the right depth, and then all of the other features are doubly hard to find. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate.. Many chairs are too deep and hit my knees in the back as you have said. But most things are bought online and in the USA there really aren’t many places where you can sit in a vast variety of chairs so you have to purchase them online
Thank YOU :) I have indeed heard from other viewers that finding chair showrooms isn't easy in the US. I know that Kinnarps have a short seat pan on the 6000 / 8000 model. You can see it on the brochure: www.kinnarps.com/globalassets/product-brochures/en/6000_8000_eng.pdf (e.g., model 8114). If you need a chair with an even shorter seat pan, there's this other concept called HAG Capisco (but then, make sure that the gas spring is the small one): store.flokk.com/us/en-gb/products/hag-capisco?store=auto I hope this helps!!
Hello Mr. Girard, I have a meshback chair similar to the Claro (although probably not as well constructed). From what I've understood so far the most important part of a chair is the pelvic support but how do I know if I'm getting adequate support while working or if I should get an additional pillow/towel?
what is your recommendation for Hobbyist, people who need to be seating down but tend to lean in when working on a desk. I understand working on a desk with keyboard and mouse, but what is recommended for people who need to get closer to their desk and perhaps even putting their elbows or hands on the desk as an anchor for more precise steps on their hobbies
That's a wonderful question. My #1 advice would be that you watch the entire video that I have for watchmakers (th-cam.com/video/SS9KNjHsmOI/w-d-xo.html). Then, you should try and recreate something similar with your own desk: bring the piece you're working on closer towards your eyes, but not whilst spreading the elbows nor flexing the wrists. An important muscle for you will be the mid back extensors; you can train them with the exercise that I show here th-cam.com/video/UitiV6V5dNo/w-d-xo.html at 4'15''. Makes sense?
Yep, you’re 100% right that I had a lapsus. I had just visited a client who has Aeron for all staff and my mind was still there :) I think I put a note to correct, didn’t I?
Wish I had seen this around the turn of the year... Bought a "gaming" chair for home work (and, yes, games), of course without adjustable back height and seat angle. Three months later, developed sciatica. Sigh.
Hi Olivier, just found out your channel and I love all the informations you give. Really nice job! I'm curious of what you think about "zero gravity workstations" like LEVUS, Altwork or ErgoQuest where you basically work lying down with the monitors up. By watching at it, it looks very comfortable and very ergonomic but I'd like to have your opinion.
Hi Daniele! This is a great question! Part of the answer is in this video: th-cam.com/video/Fa4SFs85too/w-d-xo.html . Basically, the idea is that the more you lean back, the less mobility you have in your arms. For certain tasks, it's not a problem (e.g., reading) but for some others it may lead to strain the wrists (moving them to the side, called lateral deviation, in part.). The other issue is their price (and the space they take!)... hence, I have recommended one some time ago for a disabled client of mine but that's really a rare case. Most people should first look for other solutions. Does this make sense?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you for the great answer, it makes sense. I know I always miss something because everyone will tell you their solution is 100% perfect whan they sell it to you... and they are not cheap. Sitting at my desk is becoming really uncomfortable recently and I'm trying to find the best solution to be comfortable again. I bought your book, I'm gonna read it soon so I have a better point of view :)
Perfect content! THANKS A LOT. I have a question. Sometimes I read on Ipad, takes notes on it etc. Therefore I am away from the lumbar support. I lean forward... Any chair/posture recommendation?
Excellent question, dear! There are different ways to look at this: - either you can find a chair that follows you forward a bit more (e.g., with a seat pan that can slightly tilt forward... but only slightly: th-cam.com/video/_M7t30EaLbU/w-d-xo.html). The BMA Axia does this, for example... even if I find it rather unstable - or you can tilt your desk towards you (like architects do): if your working surface faces you more, you will not tend to lean forward that much. That can for example be using a document holder (this one is really cool: www.bakkerelkhuizen.com/document-holders/flexdoc-circular/) when you use your ipad. Makes sense?
@@andresfd89 try and sit on the Steelcase Gesture: th-cam.com/video/lFgr8dix03Q/w-d-xo.html. It's really quite a good chair, which is easier to find than the Kinnarps where you live...
@@OlivierGirard sorry to be a pain, I have more questions. I bought a leap v2 and it was putting too much pressure on my back. After trying for 1.5 months, I gave it to my wife. Do you think the gesture will have that aggressive back support too? only dealer I have nearby is Herman Miller. Is the Embody a good choice? thank you for taking the time.
Very honestly, it's not a chair on which I sat personally. Generally speaking, I find that Herman Miller chairs tend to be quite expensive, even though they are good chairs. The other thing is that they tend to be quite wide (in part. in terms of distance between the armrests). But we're here having a discussion on Mercedes vs. Audi vs. BMW, you know: all these are good brands, with their pros and cons. I'll see if I can test it personally and I'll keep you posted.
Hey dear! I have written a full article on this topic: check out my blog post www.trainyourposture.com/blog-posture-ergonomics/chair-or-gym-ball-at-the-office
Hi Olivier, I have Herman Miller Embody model but I still feeling tightness and pain in my shoulder after working for even 20 mins on my workstation. I have tried everything, please help!!!
Nice video. I hesitate between Kinnarps plus and HAG Futu or Sofi model. I have tried the swing forward feature that is very nice for working close to the desk. It is called Kinnarps free float and For HAG it is called free Balance. What do you think about this feature?
Thanks! I have a 2-fold answer: - the impact of seat pan tilt is here: th-cam.com/video/_M7t30EaLbU/w-d-xo.html - freefloat is ok only as long as it doesn’t create instability. The job of the chair is to carry your weight, which requires quite some stability. Honestly, my chair is blocked and I move through activity variation. I only recommend the Plus 6 to clients for whom I need very fine posture tuning. For the others I use synchronous mechanisms. Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard thanks Olivier. It was not the answer I was expecting however I guess it is some personal taste. I tried HAG Futu which has a swing mechanism forward and it is very stable. I also tried Kinnarps plus 6 series which also swing forward but Kinnarps feels instable and not as good as HAG. Salutations depuis la France.
@@titi7776 I just wanted to make a comment. I purchased the Kinnarps plus and I think this free-float feature probably doesn't lead you towards a healthy seating position. I don't think you'd ever want to leave it unblocked, because it leaves your chair in an unstable state. it can flip back and forward as you move, and unless you specifically increase the resistance to the max (by turning the dial under your chair clockwise) it feels like you're riding a slippery fish. I've found it to be a really great chair, I no longer have any back pain and work comfortably the whole day now. I leave it in a blocked state in the neutral position, and only unblock when I am reclining.
@@arankin2914 i purchased HAG Futu for 500 euros, 10 months ago and I hate it! When I tried the swing feature at the shop I found it very nice however with time I realize it does not improve comfort. Moreover I have a bad coccyx pain when I sit more then 2 hours.
How far back does that Kinnarps lean? I love how, say the classic Leap v2 leans very far back, but the headrest it comes with is trash (should be able to push away when upright and only engage when lounging), and aftermarket options are nonexistant compared to the Aeron. Hoping this chair might be good, as I'm one of those people that like to kick back and put my feet up when lounging so a chair that facilities this well is a bonus.
Good question... I just measured around 45°: enough for me to have my feet on the desk (although I shouldn't write this!!). But definitely, you need a good headrest when you do this, and the one on the +8 does the job.
Hi Olivier, digging your videos on this very relevant topic - I wish basics such as how to sit / what makes a good sitting chair or even how to find the right mattress for you was communicated more clearly and scientifically to avoid confustion for the customer and scam / low quality products. I am glad I stumbled upon your channel which seems to discuss the former in a very neutral and product-agnostic fashion. I do have a question about a classic: The Varier Gravity Balans (formerly known as Stokke Gravity Balans). How would you rate that chair (or rather armchair) in terms of spinal support for a taller than average person (I myself am 1,95m)? I find it quite comfortably to rest in, especially in the 45 degree and horizontal "sleeping" position. But after watching your videos, I wonder if the static lumbar support is perhaps bad for your back in the long term. Though I don't use it for longer than 1-2 hours. Looking forward to your response! Loving your activity here in the comments. Cheers from Germany, Ben
Hi Ben!! Thanks very much for your message! I think an important thing is to not look for perfection: we're looking for chairs and seats that are comfortable for certain postures and activities, and then we adjust the duration of use compared to what you feel. In the case of the Varier Gravity Balans, it looks indeed quite comfortable in the lying down position, although it's true that all the elements are static: for some of us, they will be a the right place and for some others, they might cause some discomfort (yet another reason for never buying a chair without testing it first!). Hence, it can be that the elements are at the right place for your morphology, and that you're all good in there. However, it's not a chair that I would use for sitting like this man: www.arredatutto.com/de/images/sedie/4y79nk8k_81871__02.jpg. Feet under the chair = hollow back, plus you see that the posture is completely locked. Schönes Wochenende!! Olivier
Hello Mr. Girard. I was looking for kinnarps +8 in my country and I couldn´t find one but I found kinnarps 6 used a bit in one local store. What is a difference between +8 and 6? Are there any major differences that I would need that Kinnarps 6 doesn´t have? I now have new very adjustable chair and It wasn´t cheap (500 USD+-) but it is quite uncomfortable and I still can´t find an comfortable position on it even after like 2 months of sitting so I´m thinking about trying kinnarps. I noticed that the seat is not much cushioned and my buttocks hurt from it, also the back is quite hard made from mesh with no cushioning. Thank you for your reply.
Hey dear! From a cushion perspective, +6 and +8 are the same. The difference is in the mechanism: +8 is a synchronous mechanism, i.e. backrest and seat pan move together. +6 is asynchronous, i.e. you can move them free with respect to each other. This means 2 things: 1. when you lock the chair, you won't feel the difference between both 2. with +6, you can play around much more... or you can be lost much more. In other words, +6 is a chair that I use for the most complex cases, when I need to make very precise adjustments. ForMr Mrs Everybody, i go for +8. But if the budget is key, i.e. +6 used or Ikea new, I choose +6 without any hesitation!! Makes sense??
What is the decision process for a midback or highback chair? Is there value to a thoracic support feature in the backrest? What I'm personally trying to fix with a new chair is my forward rolled shoulders & hunched neck. I'm not sure if its better to have a backrest I can lean into or one I can rest my shoulder blades on.. or if even having a midback set to the height where that is possible is properly ergonomic.
Hi Vergo. It's actually a matter of use case. A midback or highback will be useful to recline, which isn't a healthy working posture as I explain here: th-cam.com/video/Fa4SFs85too/w-d-xo.html. However, you also need to relax from time to time, and that's when - you may need more support at shoulder blades level (high or mid height backrest, it depends on your size) - you can stand up. If you're e.g., a medical doctor and you're always in movement between the desk, the examination table, the waiting room, etc. you'll get postural variation by standing up. A low backrest can do the job. If you're a business analyst or a programmer and you spend many hours on your screen, relaxing will occur more often on your chair and that's when you may consider a higher backrest (in which case an adjustable headrest may make sense too). Does this answer your question?
@@OlivierGirard I'm buying a chair for gaming & education use at home. The video linked is helpful as it tells me I shouldn't rely on recline as my usecase allows me to leave the chair for breaks as needed. The part I don't understand is how a higher backrest supports the shoulders or if support is required when sitting upright in a working posture.
Thanks for your response Olivier. Can you recommend any ergonomic chair for tailbone/sacrum pain? I am interested in buying Kinnarps chair due to cost reasons. Will mesh chairs be any better than the foam chairs or other materials?
@@rajee120 It depends on the origin of the pain... if pain increases with contact on the tail bone / sacrum, special chairs can be beneficial, like the DuoBack chair: www.duoback.co.uk/duoback-split-seat. But there are other origins of such pain (e.g. muscular): www.triggerpoints.net/symptom/iliosacral-pain. In this case, you really need 1) a good lumbar support 2) to work on your posture 3) to stand up every 30 min. The thing with mesh chairs is that you need to beware the longevity of the mesh: the elasticity can drop over time. That's why some companies add a reinforcing bit (which can sometimes create pressure points on the pelvis, and which can be height adjustable or not). Hence, I tend to prefer a foam backrest if the chair is for you, and keep mesh chairs for hot desking (i.e. when people change chair every day: you know that they usually don't adjust it, and mesh backrests are more "tolerant" to not being adjusted that foam ones). Makes sense?
Hi, thanks you very much for this video and many other useful ones. I have a question. I can't find the Kinnarps plus 8 close to my home (in the Netherlands). Are the Kinnarps 6000, 8000, or 9000 good chairs?
They are indeed! Only the shapes of the cushions are slightly different but they are those which made me discover the brand. Look at the differences in the mechanics: - 6000 is a free float, i.e. backrest and seat are independent. You can adjust them precisely and then lock, but you may feel instability if you leave them unlocked; - 8000 is synchronous, like +8. Even unlocked you won’t feel like it’s moving too freely: - 9000 is their new model: you can choose between the two types of mechanisms. So it’s an all in one chair, therefore more expensive. If your budget is tight, you can also consider the 5000 with a foam backrest (no mesh on this one as you’ll feel pressure points in the lower back). Makes sense?
@@etienne2540 Hey Etienne! Here is the link... they have a showroom in Zutphen: www.kinnarps.nl/showrooms/. Call them, or speak to Paul Zwaans (www.linkedin.com/in/paul-zwaans-064a679/)... maybe he'll remember me if you tell him that I was the ergonomist at the European Patent Office when Kinnarps won the tender.
Hi Oliver! I'm planning to make myself a wooden chair taking all of your advices in consideration , do you think the feel of the wood in touch with the body can be counterproductive?
Hey mate, I love this creative energy that you have!!! Indeed, you're now touching a very important topic... and to answer, I'll share with you a video that's unlisted because it's part of my paid program: th-cam.com/video/27t7HEEHKac/w-d-xo.html. You'll learn about the 4 criteria to assess a seat for home... one of them is too firm :) Last year, I was mandated by a firm who was willing to develop a new line for ergonomic street benches. One of my recommendations was to try and use for some parts of the seat and lower back support the same material as what's used for children playgrounds so that they don't hurt themselves when falling... try this direction ;)
I've had bouts with sciatica and once I start using the kneeling chai my back feels 100 percent better. Im kinda of scared to use traditional chairs. What's your advice? Thank you!
You know, I'm rather conservative on that: if you found a solution to your problem and you feel that you are not hollowing your back much, keep your kneeling chair even though I'm quite critical with them. Just make sure that you take at least 2 breaks per hour, and that you do my muscle relaxation exercise at least 10 times a day (th-cam.com/video/yxIkf36TRD4/w-d-xo.html). What I suspect with your past history of sciatica is that you were slouching too much (there are different reasons for this so watch this video: th-cam.com/video/EQFwM2Cztzo/w-d-xo.html) and for too long. And slouching isn't better for you than hollowing your back... Does this answer your question, David?
Do you have tips for people neurodivergent people? I have adhd and i straight up think sitting normally / the same way all day is hell, and having my feet on the ground with too much force, can actually be painful because of other medical issues.
Good question... some therapists may be specialized in this type of conditions, which isn't my case. So I wouldn't try "to change you", but rather to adapt your environment to your needs. In this case, as you seem to require a lot of postural variation, I would: - have an electric sit-stand desk so that you can have a wider range of working postures; - test a HAG Capisco chair, which would help you sit well at different heights (hence help you follow the desk); - get you a wireless headset so that you can walk around during your calls and video conferences; - make sure that you have enough freedom in arranging your activities so that you can take breaks anytime you like (incl. productive breaks: you can make a work-related call from your mobile whilst having a walk in the forest, etc.). How do you feel about this?
Let's be honest, Edwin: it's a good chair. But a BMW lover will always find something to improve on an Audi or a Mercedes (and conversely!), so let's do the exercise 😅: - by experience, it tends to be too wide (the armrests are too spread apart for many small people). I think that the older models don't have armrests that can be turned inwards or outwards, but it is at least an option in the newer models. Still, it remains important that you choose the good size (A, B, C) and this will result in organizational complexity for many companies. It's easier to have one chair that suits most people; - the latest version seems to have a new type of control for the seat tilt (it used to be at the base of your left armrest, a control that you could slide up and down). This is good news, because most people had not clue how to use it, and they were leaning backwards too much. On the old model, the control was actionable depending on whether you were leaning backward or forward. For most people, this was difficult to master. I haven't tested the newest model; - older versions did not have a height adjustable lumbar support. I see that the new one now does. I don't know how comfortable it is, though. So in short, the newer version seems to have worked on some of the issues of the older model. Whether it's fixed or not, I can't tell you. However, 2 major issues remain: the 3 different sizes... and THE PRICE🤑! I see it here for $2000, whilst my own chair (Kinnarps +8 with all the options) costs $850. Would I like to spend double that on an Aeron? My own answer is no, because for the price of the Aeron I could get a Kinnarps +8, their electric desk and probably still go to a nice restaurant...
Any recommendations for people who have to lean forward on their chairs for extended periods of time? I'm a tattoo artist and spend most of my time leaning forward to reach clients skin or while designing new art work. I find myself leaning on things almost constantly for support which I'm sure can't be good for me and others in simular job fields
Hey John! Very good question... my take on this would be to advise you the same as for dentists: try a saddle chair (max. 4 hours per day on it, though). Your knees will be less in the way, so it will also be easier for you to come close to your client. I have an old subtitled video on that: th-cam.com/video/2WBdt3HDyoU/w-d-xo.html. Do you think it could help?
@@OlivierGirard After watching the video it looks like a saddle chair might do the trick and I'll definitely look into it further. The time limitations is a bit concerning as sessions can run anywhere from 1-6hrs
@@OlivierGirard Alright that looks like a very interesting option. I believe the sternum support would be very helpful during longer sessions. Thank you
what do you think about secret lab gaming chair? i am 190cm tall and when i stay on the chair i have knee pain so i wanted to buy a new chair, i thought about getting a kneeling chair
Hey Elisjon, I had this question during a webinar for Logitech employees. My answer is in this video that I shot for them, at 3'54'': th-cam.com/video/9e-1kvxHnc4/w-d-xo.html. Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard i'm from italy so i'm not that good in englidh but for what i understood it is more significant to get the habit of standing up then thinking about a new chair? but i also want to change my chair because the onei have is almost broken, i can't sit in a good way because the back of the vhair broken and it is not straight that's why i wanted to know if the secretlab is a good choice or should i opt for something else?
@@elipro97 It's not your English, dear... it's my stupidity. I sent you the wrong link (now corrected in my post): check this video th-cam.com/video/9e-1kvxHnc4/w-d-xo.html. I explain why the secretlab chair isn't too ergonomic. Is this address far from where you live: VIA GIOVANNI DA CERMENATE 69 , 22063 CANTÙ? It's the Kinnarps showroom
Tricky question, Albin 😅... I have been 2 weeks ago to Ikea and tried to find an office chair that I could recommend: I could not find any. Let's put it this way: - all their armrests are non adjustable: don't buy any of them that has armrests (will be too spread apart, too high, too hard) - none of them has an adjustable lumbar support, whereas this is the most critical part of the chair (apart from one which has a mini adjustment (ALEFJÄLL; unfortunately, it has armrests that will be super annoying to most). However, there's a difference between a chair for an individual and a chair that you'd buy for a company: the former can be adjusted without being adjustable, the latter cannot. What I mean is: it can happen that a non adjustable chair is, by chance, comfortable for you, because your morphology fits the design. But that's usually by chance. Hence, I would never buy an Ikea chair online. If now you threaten me 😂, I would go into a shop and sit on these and see how I feel (without armrests): - VALLFJÄLLET - HATTEFJÄLL - LÅNGFJÄLL I wouldn't trust JÄRVFJÄLLET to be supportive enough on the long run. This is for their chairs. I have a different opinion on their electric sit-stand desk: BEKANT is a good deal (RODULF won't go low enough for small people, and probably not high enough for tall people when they stand). Does this answer your question?
It depends on the country and the options... in Switzerland, mine with headrest and the best armrests costs approx. 800€. But the headrest is not very useful, honestly.
@@OlivierGirard Hello sir. What do you mean by "the headrest is not very useful". Is it not comfortable enough? Not worth getting? I'm looking for a chair and I'm kind of interested in the Kinnarps Plus 8 (used). But I don't know yet if I would like to buy one with the headrest or without. I'm a student (I am 6ft if that matters) who sits a lot of time behind his desk every day and I do like to recline from time to time. I'm using a new IKEA JÄRVFJÄLLET at the moment, but I kind of have a feeling I need to find something else. It's alright, but the lumbar support is kind of stiff and a bit low for me. Kinnarps looks interesting. Their 6000 model also looks pretty good. Thank you.
Hey dear! Thanks for your question… my answer is short indeed. The full explanation is here: th-cam.com/video/SfGQXZH02T0/w-d-xo.html. The idea is that the headrest is just to lean back, which isn’t a working position 😊
No, it's wasn't the wiggle function 🤣... in some videos I use the DJI Ronin gimbal, but it can become a bit hysterical sometimes depending on the setting, especially if the subject is a bit too close. I think it's better for shooting outdoors...
Tall people should adjust the height (obviously!!), not be too worried about a seat pan depth that may seem a bit short, and adjust the lumbar support properly (like everybody else).
@@OlivierGirard Appreciate it. Is there a point where the seat depth is too short? I've seen other videos where it was mentioned it could pinch some nerves/veins farther up your leg because they are by the edge of the chair. Where as for shorter people those areas would be supported by the chair and therefore not a concern.
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Why didn't I find this video before buying my chair 😭
Why what happen?
@@sandeepdeshan3256 I basically chose the wrong chair for myself lol
This video is priceless!!! Thank you very much
Thank you so much! this is probably the most useful video regarding desk chairs that I've come across and has made my decision making a lot easier now.
That’s exactly the goal… to empower you 💪🏾👏🏽!!
I totally agree! Gave me so much information I did not know and confirmed some of the information I already had. Thx!!!
Love seeing a review of the Swedish chairs. Finally. Thank you. This video is criminally underrated
There’s not enough space in jail for all 😂😂
Since you mixed them up in the video: It might be worth mentioning that the Aeron is the one with different sizes to choose from but without seat depth adjustment, while the Mirra 2 is the one with seat depth adjustment but without different sizes.
Thanks for taking time to make all the great videos on your channel. I find them to be highly practical and so useful...without any marketing BS found everywhere on youtube. kudos ! 🍻
Thanks a lot for the very pinpointed compliment!! I just had a discussion with my marketing guys on the importance of playing the slow and honest game rather than falling into the quick marketing s..t that will kill my reputation on the long term. 😁
@@OlivierGirard I couldn’t agree more with your assessment and smart approach! 👍🏻
really professional thank you for your video!
Got the Herman Miller Aeron, definitely one of the best high end office chairs available in the UK. No other company offers the same package as Herman Miller does over here, not even Steelcase and Haworth.
Currently sitting in an 8000-something Synchrone with red suede which I found recently second hand. I had a 6000-something FreeFloat before and I liked both mechanisms but the Synchrone is best. The Synchrone is the one on which the seat and back is synched.
This is such an excellent video and sooo helpful!
I got stuck in a San Diego hotel working 7 hrs a day on my laptop. I am over 6 ft tall and my room had the only chair that didnt give me backpain..ever. Rather than being bold and stealing it, I took pictures of the brand name and serial number. It was a Herman Miller but I never found the chair. Thank you for pointing out that this chair has 3 sizes and several points of adjustment. I’ll try to find one again
Excellent!! But next time, remember to put a split keyboard and mouse in your suitcase so that you don't need to kill your neck ;)
This is great! I was looking around for which products ergonomic experts use themselves, because that would be one of the best options on the market.
There are many products on the market, you know!! I like those, but I do feel comfortable on many other chairs. My real goal is to empower you and everybody so that you can decide upon good criteriae :)
Thanks again for another informative video, my current issue with a gaming chair I’m testing from Costco, is the armrests positions are too wide and yes the seat is too deep, I also need 4D armrests where I can rotate in perfect alignment with my natural arms position when typing and mouse use. I’ve had that perfect chair in a big company, I never had any problem. I’m no longer working there, but WFH, I’m trying replicate this ergonomic setup so I can finally comfortably work. I love your channel!
Thank you Simon!! Also make sure that you have a lumbar support that is good enough: on many gaming chairs, the backrest is completely flat, which reduces the pressure at belt level (due to the thickness of the butt). Result is that you slouch on them...
This guy is the goat. Great vid!
thank you my friend!!!
As someone who does everything on the PC, I have no TV, so I watch everything on my PC as well as work and gaming, so the headrest is a very nice thing to have as it's also my chair for relaxing.
Indeed… just beware that you don’t sit for too long in a row (no more than 30 min) 😉
Merci mon ami. This guide is incredibly useful and I have left a like.
Merci mon ami :)!!
very informative, thank you
great video...lucky i saw before purchase
Thank you for such a helpful video 😊😊
Are you planning to review dynamic seating chairs, like the Haider Bioswing series?
This is fantastic, thank you!
This is great. Could you provide a link to the exact chair you use daily?
It is frustrating - one could look for hours for a chair. Would love to have a recommendation for an adjustable chair to start from. There aren’t places to go try them out (I live in Nevada, USA). Im 6’ 180lb. The Kinnarps +8 looks great but can’t even find it with Google. Appreciate the help! I have a kneeling chair and I think you’re right it’s over rotating my lower back forward
Great great video
yep Sir: th-cam.com/video/e2wwl6ZohLg/w-d-xo.html
it seems you found my most controversial video ever... the one on kneeling chairs. It has upset many people 😂
Thank you very much this is very insightful.
Best video of this kind!
agreed, hard armrests, cuz your elbow to go numb after 4-5 hours, a solution would to be velour pads or leather pads, thats wat i do, and it works good! Thats why I like the mirra 2, and the haworth zody, soft armrests!, if its hard, i just bu velour pads for them.
This guy sits, thanks for the great explanation.
But he doesn’t sit for more than 30 min in a row 🤣🤣
@@OlivierGirard hahaha yeah this is the trademarkom of a good sitter
Hi! Very good video! Have you tried Logic RH 220, or something else from that brand? What are your thoughts?
Hi! I have indeed. I like these chairs, but only when they are blocked. We have different visions on stability vs movement. They have built their chair with the axis of rotation under the front edge of the seat pan, which makes the chair constantly moving. I don't agree with that: I recommend a stable chair that will truly support your weight when you work, whilst you take the responsibility for moving around at least every 30 min. Not everyone agrees with this, but I truly believe that the idea that movement = health creates a lot of damage (th-cam.com/video/Ndwmo333hxA/w-d-xo.html).
It would be nice if you share which chair is the one with head support
Kinnarps plus 8: th-cam.com/video/e2wwl6ZohLg/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Excellent video! What do you think about the Hermann Miller Cosm ? I tried one with the fixed leaf arm rest but there is also a model that adjustable arm rest. Thanks in advance!
Thank you for the video. I see so many chair reviews for Americans but hardly any for Europeans. Do you have any chairs for Europeans to get, particularly in the mid range?
It depends on the country in which you live... but Kinnarps is rather well distributed in Europe (the 5000 model is a good midrange one). Dauphin is also a good brand, as well as Sitag Xilium
@@OlivierGirard Thank you very much for the recommendations. I'll research those brands.
Hello Olivier, thank you so much for this video since it’s really helped me find a chair that beat suits me. This is truly priceless. Merci bcp!
You’re welcome Roberto!! Now you’ll need this one, on how to adjust it properly: th-cam.com/video/Du0VU0hOvlQ/w-d-xo.html 💪🏾🔥
This video is just what I needed.
Which chair model did you finally go for, Duncan :) ?
@@OlivierGirard Your video was super helpful for what to look for in a truly supportive chair. Thank you! I wanted to order the Kinnarps chair you use, but since I’m based in Washington DC the shipping is out of my price range. I also looked at the Just Magic 2 model you recommend, but shipping makes that hard too.
Based on the Kinnarps and Just Magic 2 specs, I’ve searched for other models that seem similarly built and in closer shipping range. I’m curious if you have ever seen the below brands/ models and have an opinion on them. They are my top choices that I've found so far (but youtube won’t let me post this comment with the links)
The Zody or Fern models by Haworth
Gesture by Steelcase (Steelcase seems to have a few good options)
Ergo3D by Nouhaus
I’m 6 feet tall and have chronic neck, shoulder, and upper back pain, so a good office chair is so important. I'd be grateful for any of your expert guidance!
Finally I could find your comment, among all those which were deleted!! So...my apologies for the late reply!
I know Haworth and Steelcase: 2/3 :) ! I recently intervened with someone who had the Zody chair, and somehow the plastic plate serving as a lumbar support was creating painful pressure points (whenever you see a hard material behind a mesh, you need to test first). It seemed broken so this may not happen normally, but if so, the durability of the chair is to be questioned.
I have never seen the Fern but it looks good. The Gesture is also good (many of my clients use it).
The Nouhaus is in my opinion a risky choice: the 2-parts backrest could potentially be super uncomfortable, esp. when you want to lean back for a break leaning back.
Hence, my advice would be that you test the Fern vs. the Gesture. If you can't test (which I never recommend so much), the Gesture seems a safe choice :)
Does this help?
Fantastic video, thank you!
Your highly informative advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you for your videos.
I'll be looking into Kinnarps. It seems even better than those heavily marketed Herman Miller chairs. I wonder if it's more expensive.
Thank you very much indeed!!
Kinnarps is less expensive than Herman Miller. Their entrance model (Claro) starts (in Switzerland) around $350, and my own chair (+8) is around $850.
I also have a Herman Miller at home (Mirra), which I bought 15 years ago. It's a good brand, but I find it overpriced indeed. Furthermore, their chairs tend to be too wide and too deep, and the controls are not intuitive. It's the standard chair in several embassies; every time I intervene there I see that people haven't adjusted the tilt well, so they recline too much...
@@OlivierGirard What chair do you use as your office chair,can you give a link please?
@@encapsulatio my chair is the Kinnarps +8: www.kinnarps.com/products/seating/task-chairs/plus/. But not every brand is distributed in every country, which makes it a bit difficult to give a unique recommendation for everybody :)
@@OlivierGirard Herman Miller chairs aren't overpriced, name a single chair brand that offers the same or better build quality, quality of adjustments and warranty. Unless you're talking about Steelcase or Haworth, no other company comes close enough.
Well they're not better than Herman Miller, that brand looks like a cheaper version of Steelcase and Haworth.
Also, I'm not sure why you think Herman Miller chairs are heavily marketed, because unless you're actively searching for an office chair, you'd probably never hear about them.
I didn't even know what Herman Miller was or what their chairs looked like until I literally started researching high end office chairs.
If you like the Kinnarps chair, good for you, but don't ever cheap out on office chairs unless you want to keep replacing them.
Hi Olivier, thx for your informative videos! Would you reccomend me the Dauphin SC 9242? It looks like a good chair.
Thank you
Im always fascinated by Frenchmen who are articulate in English haha
Great video!
Thank you mate!! I have the same reaction when I see a UK / US press correspondent who's fluent in French :)
Thank you so much for this!
Kinnarps+8 looks amazing, adjustable head rests are extremely rare to find!
I dont think i can buy it in my country, no site shows a price and you have to contact a showroom or something, is there any alternative?
Note, i do use armrests while using the mouse and my left arm is currently on the armrest while typing
Hi dear! There are alternatives, of course. Other good brands include Dauphin, SteelCase, etc. My advice is that you go to my website: www.ergoh-conseil.ch/screen-work-training.html, and scroll down. You will find technical specs for office furniture, against which you can check any chair you find on the market. There's also an article on the usual traps. Bear in mind that you don't want to buy a chair without testing it first :-) !!
If you still hesitate after using all this info, post the references of the model you consider here, and I'll tell you what I think... you just won free consulting, Sir 😂😂!!
Thank you Olivier for this information. Your videos are very much appreciated. I am short so it is hard to find a chair with the right depth, and then all of the other features are doubly hard to find. If you have any suggestions I would appreciate.. Many chairs are too deep and hit my knees in the back as you have said. But most things are bought online and in the USA there really aren’t many places where you can sit in a vast variety of chairs so you have to purchase them online
Thank YOU :) I have indeed heard from other viewers that finding chair showrooms isn't easy in the US. I know that Kinnarps have a short seat pan on the 6000 / 8000 model. You can see it on the brochure: www.kinnarps.com/globalassets/product-brochures/en/6000_8000_eng.pdf (e.g., model 8114). If you need a chair with an even shorter seat pan, there's this other concept called HAG Capisco (but then, make sure that the gas spring is the small one): store.flokk.com/us/en-gb/products/hag-capisco?store=auto
I hope this helps!!
Awesome video
Merci Beaucoup pour votre temps!!! Je vous souhaite la bonne sante!!
Merci beaucoup!!
Hello Mr. Girard, I have a meshback chair similar to the Claro (although probably not as well constructed). From what I've understood so far the most important part of a chair is the pelvic support but how do I know if I'm getting adequate support while working or if I should get an additional pillow/towel?
what is your recommendation for Hobbyist, people who need to be seating down but tend to lean in when working on a desk. I understand working on a desk with keyboard and mouse, but what is recommended for people who need to get closer to their desk and perhaps even putting their elbows or hands on the desk as an anchor for more precise steps on their hobbies
That's a wonderful question. My #1 advice would be that you watch the entire video that I have for watchmakers (th-cam.com/video/SS9KNjHsmOI/w-d-xo.html). Then, you should try and recreate something similar with your own desk: bring the piece you're working on closer towards your eyes, but not whilst spreading the elbows nor flexing the wrists.
An important muscle for you will be the mid back extensors; you can train them with the exercise that I show here th-cam.com/video/UitiV6V5dNo/w-d-xo.html at 4'15''. Makes sense?
I just bought the Kinnarps 8000 plus, i guess that was a good choice then? :)
I think it was ;) ... here is the complete adjustment video with this very model: th-cam.com/video/Du0VU0hOvlQ/w-d-xo.html... enjoy your investment!!
@@OlivierGirard Thank you! Just what i needed.
Thank you, you are awesome.
Thanks a lot for the compliment :) !!
That appears to be a Herman Miller Mirra Chair you’re using as an example. Aeron is the mesh one :)
Yep, you’re 100% right that I had a lapsus. I had just visited a client who has Aeron for all staff and my mind was still there :) I think I put a note to correct, didn’t I?
Merci beaucoup!
Buying chair not online in very difficult, since offline we have only Jysk and Ikea. Other office chairs you can buy only online.
it depends on the country. In Europe, there are local shops that are multi brand resellers
This was fantastic
Thank you, dear!
Wish I had seen this around the turn of the year... Bought a "gaming" chair for home work (and, yes, games), of course without adjustable back height and seat angle. Three months later, developed sciatica. Sigh.
Ouch... did you get it diagnosed as a hernia, or it is due to contraction in the piriformis muscle (th-cam.com/video/PHXmQ8Pt0Nc/w-d-xo.html)?
Hi Olivier, just found out your channel and I love all the informations you give. Really nice job!
I'm curious of what you think about "zero gravity workstations" like LEVUS, Altwork or ErgoQuest where you basically work lying down with the monitors up.
By watching at it, it looks very comfortable and very ergonomic but I'd like to have your opinion.
Hi Daniele! This is a great question! Part of the answer is in this video: th-cam.com/video/Fa4SFs85too/w-d-xo.html . Basically, the idea is that the more you lean back, the less mobility you have in your arms. For certain tasks, it's not a problem (e.g., reading) but for some others it may lead to strain the wrists (moving them to the side, called lateral deviation, in part.).
The other issue is their price (and the space they take!)... hence, I have recommended one some time ago for a disabled client of mine but that's really a rare case. Most people should first look for other solutions.
Does this make sense?
@@OlivierGirard Thank you for the great answer, it makes sense. I know I always miss something because everyone will tell you their solution is 100% perfect whan they sell it to you... and they are not cheap.
Sitting at my desk is becoming really uncomfortable recently and I'm trying to find the best solution to be comfortable again.
I bought your book, I'm gonna read it soon so I have a better point of view :)
Perfect content! THANKS A LOT. I have a question. Sometimes I read on Ipad, takes notes on it etc. Therefore I am away from the lumbar support. I lean forward... Any chair/posture recommendation?
Excellent question, dear! There are different ways to look at this:
- either you can find a chair that follows you forward a bit more (e.g., with a seat pan that can slightly tilt forward... but only slightly: th-cam.com/video/_M7t30EaLbU/w-d-xo.html). The BMA Axia does this, for example... even if I find it rather unstable
- or you can tilt your desk towards you (like architects do): if your working surface faces you more, you will not tend to lean forward that much. That can for example be using a document holder (this one is really cool: www.bakkerelkhuizen.com/document-holders/flexdoc-circular/) when you use your ipad.
Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard Thanks a lot Olivier. Never heard about tilting pans, before. Great info!
The kinnops looks interesting but it looks like I can’t get it in the USA?
It isn't well distributed there, that's correct... I'm lobbying them as much as I can but....
@@OlivierGirard 😔
@@OlivierGirard do you know any recommendations for someone who is 1.77m and same body build as you and the chair is available in the USA?
@@andresfd89 try and sit on the Steelcase Gesture: th-cam.com/video/lFgr8dix03Q/w-d-xo.html. It's really quite a good chair, which is easier to find than the Kinnarps where you live...
@@OlivierGirard sorry to be a pain, I have more questions. I bought a leap v2 and it was putting too much pressure on my back. After trying for 1.5 months, I gave it to my wife. Do you think the gesture will have that aggressive back support too? only dealer I have nearby is Herman Miller. Is the Embody a good choice?
thank you for taking the time.
What are your thoughts on the Herman Miller Embody from an ergonomic perspective?
Very honestly, it's not a chair on which I sat personally. Generally speaking, I find that Herman Miller chairs tend to be quite expensive, even though they are good chairs. The other thing is that they tend to be quite wide (in part. in terms of distance between the armrests). But we're here having a discussion on Mercedes vs. Audi vs. BMW, you know: all these are good brands, with their pros and cons. I'll see if I can test it personally and I'll keep you posted.
Hello Olivier how about medicine ball chairs like gaiam? Thanks
Hey dear! I have written a full article on this topic: check out my blog post www.trainyourposture.com/blog-posture-ergonomics/chair-or-gym-ball-at-the-office
thanks for the information. what about the standing chairs like saddle seats? are they better than the ones you mention here?
I let you check the description of this video: th-cam.com/video/2WBdt3HDyoU/w-d-xo.html 😉... let me know if you have any additional question!
Hi Olivier, I have Herman Miller Embody model but I still feeling tightness and pain in my shoulder after working for even 20 mins on my workstation. I have tried everything, please help!!!
check out my latest post on the community tab, mate: you can send me pics for a free public workplace assessment :)
Direct link to the office furniture specs: www.ergoh-conseil.ch/screen-work-training.html
Are there any good brands that are not like completely unaffordable :/
I would try the second hand market
My current chair has a fixed lumbar support and it feels too low! Would you have any advice on how to make my current chair work?
I would try and add a lumbar cushion, which you can adjust at any height you like. Not too expensive, often very useful :)
Nice video. I hesitate between Kinnarps plus and HAG Futu or Sofi model. I have tried the swing forward feature that is very nice for working close to the desk. It is called Kinnarps free float and For HAG it is called free Balance. What do you think about this feature?
Thanks! I have a 2-fold answer:
- the impact of seat pan tilt is here: th-cam.com/video/_M7t30EaLbU/w-d-xo.html
- freefloat is ok only as long as it doesn’t create instability. The job of the chair is to carry your weight, which requires quite some stability.
Honestly, my chair is blocked and I move through activity variation. I only recommend the Plus 6 to clients for whom I need very fine posture tuning. For the others I use synchronous mechanisms.
Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard thanks Olivier. It was not the answer I was expecting however I guess it is some personal taste. I tried HAG Futu which has a swing mechanism forward and it is very stable. I also tried Kinnarps plus 6 series which also swing forward but Kinnarps feels instable and not as good as HAG. Salutations depuis la France.
@@titi7776 I just wanted to make a comment. I purchased the Kinnarps plus and I think this free-float feature probably doesn't lead you towards a healthy seating position. I don't think you'd ever want to leave it unblocked, because it leaves your chair in an unstable state. it can flip back and forward as you move, and unless you specifically increase the resistance to the max (by turning the dial under your chair clockwise) it feels like you're riding a slippery fish. I've found it to be a really great chair, I no longer have any back pain and work comfortably the whole day now. I leave it in a blocked state in the neutral position, and only unblock when I am reclining.
@@arankin2914 i purchased HAG Futu for 500 euros, 10 months ago and I hate it! When I tried the swing feature at the shop I found it very nice however with time I realize it does not improve comfort. Moreover I have a bad coccyx pain when I sit more then 2 hours.
How far back does that Kinnarps lean? I love how, say the classic Leap v2 leans very far back, but the headrest it comes with is trash (should be able to push away when upright and only engage when lounging), and aftermarket options are nonexistant compared to the Aeron. Hoping this chair might be good, as I'm one of those people that like to kick back and put my feet up when lounging so a chair that facilities this well is a bonus.
Good question... I just measured around 45°: enough for me to have my feet on the desk (although I shouldn't write this!!). But definitely, you need a good headrest when you do this, and the one on the +8 does the job.
Hi Olivier,
digging your videos on this very relevant topic - I wish basics such as how to sit / what makes a good sitting chair or even how to find the right mattress for you was communicated more clearly and scientifically to avoid confustion for the customer and scam / low quality products. I am glad I stumbled upon your channel which seems to discuss the former in a very neutral and product-agnostic fashion.
I do have a question about a classic: The Varier Gravity Balans (formerly known as Stokke Gravity Balans).
How would you rate that chair (or rather armchair) in terms of spinal support for a taller than average person (I myself am 1,95m)? I find it quite comfortably to rest in, especially in the 45 degree and horizontal "sleeping" position. But after watching your videos, I wonder if the static lumbar support is perhaps bad for your back in the long term. Though I don't use it for longer than 1-2 hours.
Looking forward to your response! Loving your activity here in the comments.
Cheers from Germany,
Ben
Hi Ben!! Thanks very much for your message!
I think an important thing is to not look for perfection: we're looking for chairs and seats that are comfortable for certain postures and activities, and then we adjust the duration of use compared to what you feel. In the case of the Varier Gravity Balans, it looks indeed quite comfortable in the lying down position, although it's true that all the elements are static: for some of us, they will be a the right place and for some others, they might cause some discomfort (yet another reason for never buying a chair without testing it first!). Hence, it can be that the elements are at the right place for your morphology, and that you're all good in there.
However, it's not a chair that I would use for sitting like this man: www.arredatutto.com/de/images/sedie/4y79nk8k_81871__02.jpg. Feet under the chair = hollow back, plus you see that the posture is completely locked.
Schönes Wochenende!!
Olivier
@@OlivierGirard thank you very much for your reply! You're amazing!
Hello Mr. Girard. I was looking for kinnarps +8 in my country and I couldn´t find one but I found kinnarps 6 used a bit in one local store. What is a difference between +8 and 6? Are there any major differences that I would need that Kinnarps 6 doesn´t have? I now have new very adjustable chair and It wasn´t cheap (500 USD+-) but it is quite uncomfortable and I still can´t find an comfortable position on it even after like 2 months of sitting so I´m thinking about trying kinnarps. I noticed that the seat is not much cushioned and my buttocks hurt from it, also the back is quite hard made from mesh with no cushioning. Thank you for your reply.
Hey dear! From a cushion perspective, +6 and +8 are the same. The difference is in the mechanism: +8 is a synchronous mechanism, i.e. backrest and seat pan move together. +6 is asynchronous, i.e. you can move them free with respect to each other. This means 2 things: 1. when you lock the chair, you won't feel the difference between both 2. with +6, you can play around much more... or you can be lost much more. In other words, +6 is a chair that I use for the most complex cases, when I need to make very precise adjustments. ForMr Mrs Everybody, i go for +8.
But if the budget is key, i.e. +6 used or Ikea new, I choose +6 without any hesitation!!
Makes sense??
@@OlivierGirard Perfectly. Thanks a lot!
What is the decision process for a midback or highback chair? Is there value to a thoracic support feature in the backrest?
What I'm personally trying to fix with a new chair is my forward rolled shoulders & hunched neck. I'm not sure if its better to have a backrest I can lean into or one I can rest my shoulder blades on.. or if even having a midback set to the height where that is possible is properly ergonomic.
Hi Vergo. It's actually a matter of use case. A midback or highback will be useful to recline, which isn't a healthy working posture as I explain here: th-cam.com/video/Fa4SFs85too/w-d-xo.html. However, you also need to relax from time to time, and that's when
- you may need more support at shoulder blades level (high or mid height backrest, it depends on your size)
- you can stand up.
If you're e.g., a medical doctor and you're always in movement between the desk, the examination table, the waiting room, etc. you'll get postural variation by standing up. A low backrest can do the job.
If you're a business analyst or a programmer and you spend many hours on your screen, relaxing will occur more often on your chair and that's when you may consider a higher backrest (in which case an adjustable headrest may make sense too).
Does this answer your question?
@@OlivierGirard I'm buying a chair for gaming & education use at home. The video linked is helpful as it tells me I shouldn't rely on recline as my usecase allows me to leave the chair for breaks as needed.
The part I don't understand is how a higher backrest supports the shoulders or if support is required when sitting upright in a working posture.
Hi Oliver, Where can we buy Kinnarps series in the UK? Any ideas?
Hi Rajesh! They have a showroom in London: www.kinnarps.com/showrooms/UK/ . Is that close to where you are?
Thanks for your response Olivier. Can you recommend any ergonomic chair for tailbone/sacrum pain? I am interested in buying Kinnarps chair due to cost reasons. Will mesh chairs be any better than the foam chairs or other materials?
@@rajee120 It depends on the origin of the pain... if pain increases with contact on the tail bone / sacrum, special chairs can be beneficial, like the DuoBack chair: www.duoback.co.uk/duoback-split-seat. But there are other origins of such pain (e.g. muscular): www.triggerpoints.net/symptom/iliosacral-pain. In this case, you really need 1) a good lumbar support 2) to work on your posture 3) to stand up every 30 min.
The thing with mesh chairs is that you need to beware the longevity of the mesh: the elasticity can drop over time. That's why some companies add a reinforcing bit (which can sometimes create pressure points on the pelvis, and which can be height adjustable or not). Hence, I tend to prefer a foam backrest if the chair is for you, and keep mesh chairs for hot desking (i.e. when people change chair every day: you know that they usually don't adjust it, and mesh backrests are more "tolerant" to not being adjusted that foam ones).
Makes sense?
Hi, thanks you very much for this video and many other useful ones. I have a question. I can't find the Kinnarps plus 8 close to my home (in the Netherlands). Are the Kinnarps 6000, 8000, or 9000 good chairs?
They are indeed! Only the shapes of the cushions are slightly different but they are those which made me discover the brand. Look at the differences in the mechanics:
- 6000 is a free float, i.e. backrest and seat are independent. You can adjust them precisely and then lock, but you may feel instability if you leave them unlocked;
- 8000 is synchronous, like +8. Even unlocked you won’t feel like it’s moving too freely:
- 9000 is their new model: you can choose between the two types of mechanisms. So it’s an all in one chair, therefore more expensive.
If your budget is tight, you can also consider the 5000 with a foam backrest (no mesh on this one as you’ll feel pressure points in the lower back).
Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard Thanks a million! I ended up buying a 9000 second hand for 200 euros. Very happy with it!
@@chemx4439 well done!! I’m super happy for you 😊
Hello Chem X, I wondered where you bought this chair. I'm also dutch.
@@etienne2540 Hey Etienne! Here is the link... they have a showroom in Zutphen: www.kinnarps.nl/showrooms/. Call them, or speak to Paul Zwaans (www.linkedin.com/in/paul-zwaans-064a679/)... maybe he'll remember me if you tell him that I was the ergonomist at the European Patent Office when Kinnarps won the tender.
Hi Oliver! I'm planning to make myself a wooden chair taking all of your advices in consideration , do you think the feel of the wood in touch with the body can be counterproductive?
Hey mate, I love this creative energy that you have!!! Indeed, you're now touching a very important topic... and to answer, I'll share with you a video that's unlisted because it's part of my paid program: th-cam.com/video/27t7HEEHKac/w-d-xo.html. You'll learn about the 4 criteria to assess a seat for home... one of them is too firm :)
Last year, I was mandated by a firm who was willing to develop a new line for ergonomic street benches. One of my recommendations was to try and use for some parts of the seat and lower back support the same material as what's used for children playgrounds so that they don't hurt themselves when falling... try this direction ;)
@@OlivierGirard thanks for the advice! i will consider joining your program in the near future
I've had bouts with sciatica and once I start using the kneeling chai my back feels 100 percent better. Im kinda of scared to use traditional chairs. What's your advice? Thank you!
You know, I'm rather conservative on that: if you found a solution to your problem and you feel that you are not hollowing your back much, keep your kneeling chair even though I'm quite critical with them. Just make sure that you take at least 2 breaks per hour, and that you do my muscle relaxation exercise at least 10 times a day (th-cam.com/video/yxIkf36TRD4/w-d-xo.html).
What I suspect with your past history of sciatica is that you were slouching too much (there are different reasons for this so watch this video: th-cam.com/video/EQFwM2Cztzo/w-d-xo.html) and for too long. And slouching isn't better for you than hollowing your back...
Does this answer your question, David?
Thank you so much for your feedback and yes It did answer my question. Have a great day!@@OlivierGirard
Do you have tips for people neurodivergent people? I have adhd and i straight up think sitting normally / the same way all day is hell, and having my feet on the ground with too much force, can actually be painful because of other medical issues.
Good question... some therapists may be specialized in this type of conditions, which isn't my case. So I wouldn't try "to change you", but rather to adapt your environment to your needs. In this case, as you seem to require a lot of postural variation, I would:
- have an electric sit-stand desk so that you can have a wider range of working postures;
- test a HAG Capisco chair, which would help you sit well at different heights (hence help you follow the desk);
- get you a wireless headset so that you can walk around during your calls and video conferences;
- make sure that you have enough freedom in arranging your activities so that you can take breaks anytime you like (incl. productive breaks: you can make a work-related call from your mobile whilst having a walk in the forest, etc.).
How do you feel about this?
thankyou!
you're welcome, Josh!!
What are your thoughts on the “legendary” Herman Miller Aeron?
Let's be honest, Edwin: it's a good chair. But a BMW lover will always find something to improve on an Audi or a Mercedes (and conversely!), so let's do the exercise 😅:
- by experience, it tends to be too wide (the armrests are too spread apart for many small people). I think that the older models don't have armrests that can be turned inwards or outwards, but it is at least an option in the newer models. Still, it remains important that you choose the good size (A, B, C) and this will result in organizational complexity for many companies. It's easier to have one chair that suits most people;
- the latest version seems to have a new type of control for the seat tilt (it used to be at the base of your left armrest, a control that you could slide up and down). This is good news, because most people had not clue how to use it, and they were leaning backwards too much. On the old model, the control was actionable depending on whether you were leaning backward or forward. For most people, this was difficult to master. I haven't tested the newest model;
- older versions did not have a height adjustable lumbar support. I see that the new one now does. I don't know how comfortable it is, though.
So in short, the newer version seems to have worked on some of the issues of the older model. Whether it's fixed or not, I can't tell you. However, 2 major issues remain: the 3 different sizes... and THE PRICE🤑! I see it here for $2000, whilst my own chair (Kinnarps +8 with all the options) costs $850. Would I like to spend double that on an Aeron? My own answer is no, because for the price of the Aeron I could get a Kinnarps +8, their electric desk and probably still go to a nice restaurant...
@@OlivierGirard Haha thanks for this little review about the Herman Miller..I was really curious what you would think of those. Thanks for sharing!
@@KoelArtChannelYou're very welcome!! Have a great Christmas!
Any recommendations for people who have to lean forward on their chairs for extended periods of time?
I'm a tattoo artist and spend most of my time leaning forward to reach clients skin or while designing new art work.
I find myself leaning on things almost constantly for support which I'm sure can't be good for me and others in simular job fields
Hey John! Very good question... my take on this would be to advise you the same as for dentists: try a saddle chair (max. 4 hours per day on it, though). Your knees will be less in the way, so it will also be easier for you to come close to your client. I have an old subtitled video on that: th-cam.com/video/2WBdt3HDyoU/w-d-xo.html. Do you think it could help?
@@OlivierGirard
After watching the video it looks like a saddle chair might do the trick and I'll definitely look into it further. The time limitations is a bit concerning as sessions can run anywhere from 1-6hrs
I get it... an alternative might be the HAG Capisco chair. Try and compare the two😉
@@OlivierGirard Alright that looks like a very interesting option. I believe the sternum support would be very helpful during longer sessions.
Thank you
@@OlivierGirardsomething with forward tilt maybe
Thank You Very Much ❤️
You're welcome 😊
Thanks from Sweden!
what do you think about secret lab gaming chair? i am 190cm tall and when i stay on the chair i have knee pain so i wanted to buy a new chair, i thought about getting a kneeling chair
Hey Elisjon, I had this question during a webinar for Logitech employees. My answer is in this video that I shot for them, at 3'54'': th-cam.com/video/9e-1kvxHnc4/w-d-xo.html. Makes sense?
@@OlivierGirard i'm from italy so i'm not that good in englidh but for what i understood it is more significant to get the habit of standing up then thinking about a new chair? but i also want to change my chair because the onei have is almost broken, i can't sit in a good way because the back of the vhair broken and it is not straight that's why i wanted to know if the secretlab is a good choice or should i opt for something else?
@@elipro97 It's not your English, dear... it's my stupidity. I sent you the wrong link (now corrected in my post): check this video th-cam.com/video/9e-1kvxHnc4/w-d-xo.html. I explain why the secretlab chair isn't too ergonomic. Is this address far from where you live: VIA GIOVANNI DA CERMENATE 69
, 22063 CANTÙ? It's the Kinnarps showroom
@@OlivierGirard it is like 3-4 hours from my home
What are your thoughts on ikea's office chairs? Which one would you buy if you had to buy one?
Tricky question, Albin 😅... I have been 2 weeks ago to Ikea and tried to find an office chair that I could recommend: I could not find any. Let's put it this way:
- all their armrests are non adjustable: don't buy any of them that has armrests (will be too spread apart, too high, too hard)
- none of them has an adjustable lumbar support, whereas this is the most critical part of the chair (apart from one which has a mini adjustment (ALEFJÄLL; unfortunately, it has armrests that will be super annoying to most).
However, there's a difference between a chair for an individual and a chair that you'd buy for a company: the former can be adjusted without being adjustable, the latter cannot. What I mean is: it can happen that a non adjustable chair is, by chance, comfortable for you, because your morphology fits the design. But that's usually by chance.
Hence, I would never buy an Ikea chair online. If now you threaten me 😂, I would go into a shop and sit on these and see how I feel (without armrests):
- VALLFJÄLLET
- HATTEFJÄLL
- LÅNGFJÄLL
I wouldn't trust JÄRVFJÄLLET to be supportive enough on the long run.
This is for their chairs. I have a different opinion on their electric sit-stand desk: BEKANT is a good deal (RODULF won't go low enough for small people, and probably not high enough for tall people when they stand). Does this answer your question?
@@OlivierGirard Why do you think the JÄRVFJÄLLET wouldn't be supportive enough in the long run?
@@OlivierGirard they have a new chair called STYRSPEL. It's adjustable and I'd appreciate your opinion on it once you're able to.
This is the link to the Kinnarps +8: www.kinnarps.us/products/seating/task-chairs/plus/
Thank you very much, too many crazy people talking nonsense about chairs...
Yep my friend... a lot of dogma out there. Don't ever follow any advice if you don't understand the reasoning behind ;) !
He took never lose eye contact to the T lmao
12:00 😅
how much does a Kinnarps Plus 8 cost?
It depends on the country and the options... in Switzerland, mine with headrest and the best armrests costs approx. 800€. But the headrest is not very useful, honestly.
@@OlivierGirard Do they sell online?
@@JZOKU Not in Switzerland I believe, but it's very much country-dependent.
@@OlivierGirard Hello sir. What do you mean by "the headrest is not very useful".
Is it not comfortable enough? Not worth getting?
I'm looking for a chair and I'm kind of interested in the Kinnarps Plus 8 (used). But I don't know yet if I would like to buy one with the headrest or without.
I'm a student (I am 6ft if that matters) who sits a lot of time behind his desk every day and I do like to recline from time to time.
I'm using a new IKEA JÄRVFJÄLLET at the moment, but I kind of have a feeling I need to find something else. It's alright, but the lumbar support is kind of stiff and a bit low for me.
Kinnarps looks interesting. Their 6000 model also looks pretty good.
Thank you.
Hey dear! Thanks for your question… my answer is short indeed. The full explanation is here: th-cam.com/video/SfGQXZH02T0/w-d-xo.html. The idea is that the headrest is just to lean back, which isn’t a working position 😊
What chair are you currently using?
It's a Kinnarps Plus 8: www.kinnarps.com/products/seating/task-chairs/plus/
Got it, monstrous Herman Miller for the overweight americans, lol.
🤣🤣🤣 I didn't really say that!!
Just letting you know the fake camera shake didn't go unnoticed :D
Every day is a new learning experience :) !!
@@OlivierGirard Wait, am I right? I was just kidding but it did look kind of fake. Like the wiggle function in After Effects
No, it's wasn't the wiggle function 🤣... in some videos I use the DJI Ronin gimbal, but it can become a bit hysterical sometimes depending on the setting, especially if the subject is a bit too close. I think it's better for shooting outdoors...
You discuss short people here but not tall people. What adjustments should be made by tall people to fit these requirements.
Tall people should adjust the height (obviously!!), not be too worried about a seat pan depth that may seem a bit short, and adjust the lumbar support properly (like everybody else).
@@OlivierGirard Appreciate it. Is there a point where the seat depth is too short? I've seen other videos where it was mentioned it could pinch some nerves/veins farther up your leg because they are by the edge of the chair. Where as for shorter people those areas would be supported by the chair and therefore not a concern.
@@phenom568 the answer in video: th-cam.com/video/jp_8jjZP3cw/w-d-xo.html 😀
@@OlivierGirard Excellent, thank you!