I don't know if you've played surgical before but it can be nice to wait for their draw step to use it since they might draw a copy of what you're extracting
Because they’re playing a cool reanimating strategy versus something that you literally can’t interact with since it’s BO1. Facing combo is basically a non-game.
with scheming symmetry from M20 you can force them to search their library while getting a copy of the archive trap so you can maybe mill for x times 13 on turn 1
Oh, you're not alone, mate. I had a control mill deck when I was a teenager, with crabs, Glimpse, Traps and Traumatize to mill, and Propaganda and counterspells to keep aggro decks at bay. Needless to say, it was traumatic indeed.
@@dipian it was sick. I’m old. Like been playing since Beta old. I remember when Sligh//Geeba was invented and people started to build decks on a curve. It was mostly 1 drops. With some 2 drops. 4-6 3 drops. 2-4 4 drops and 2 Xspells for the finish.
I've learned that arena will determine whether you can play a card or not, then engage the auto pass feature. If things change after that, it is still in auto pass mode. So you'll need to engage full control on turns you can't play anything but want to trap them.
Surgical Extraction is a fantastic spell to use for those pesky Gaea's Blessing cards that totally shut down mill decks. As soon as one triggers, cast it before it's effect resolves and you wipe ALL copies of it to prevent players from getting their graveyards back into their library. Things like Tormod's Crypt work well for that also but not many people use it that often Edit: Tasha's Hideous Laughter is a massively underrated card also as it lets you nuke their cards into exile rather than the graveyard, thus avoiding the dreaded Gaea's Blessing triggers. I have 2 copies of Gaea's Blessing in my W/G/U deck that I play on Arena and the number of mill deck players that I've seen instantly scoop the second that I get my graveyard back with Gaea's Blessing is astounding. It's so immensely satisfying seeing half my library in the GY one turn and then getting it all back the next. Although the opposite is true when they blast me with Tasha's and I lose both copies to exile. At that point I'm the one who scoops immediately
3 mana Ashiok is also pretty funny, Gaea's animation starts playing out like the cards are gonna go into the library, but then Ashiok's effect puts it all in exile before it can resolves. Gaea's Blessing spells doom for mill decks, but everytime it's put in exile the opponents scoops immediately
@@CatFinder3000 Is it not an instant? If so then SE can be cast in response to the trigger and if it resolves then the trigger won't occur because the last thing on the stack happens first remember?
@@davidcrawford5324 yes it is instant, but there’s a difference between the card and any effect caused by the card. Once the triggered effect goes on the stack, the location of the card itself doesn’t matter anymore. Surgical Extraction would exile all copies of Blessing you select, and then the effect of Blessing would still trigger since it is on the stack. So every card other than Blessing (because Blessing has been exiled by Surgical Extraction) would be shuffled into the library. Remember that for the effect to trigger, Blessing has already entered the graveyard, THEN the effect goes on the stack. So if you Surgical Extraction in response to the effect of Blessing, it’s already too late.
Personally, I've been playing with thr new Jace in mill. Plotting Maddening Cacophany and casting mill half for 4 mana is pretty good. Not to mention just plotting Tasha's, and the combo Jace has with Leyline of Anticipation.
Oh HELLS yes!!! I don't even like mill, but all is fair in a hyper strong format like Timeless. This deck is lethal and DISGUSTING and I love it! Evil Luca is back in the house y'all!!! 😂😄🤘
Yessss love the mill. Used to hate it so much but then I just embraced it. Still way cooler, more interactive and simply better than that endless Capenna landspam deck from Standard 🤣
Really like playing this kind of deck in bo3 with some thoughseize, couple of bounce spells for white leylines, cheap counterspells and the surgicals on the sideboard with some more card draw in the main. Really like the manabase, will copy it lol. Great video as always
Honestly really interesting to see this decklist basically as the missing link between Modern Mill and Pioneer Mill. It is missing the other crabs and the Fractured Sanitys, but it has the traps and extractions. Hopefully Pioneer gets some more mill cards, because currently the deck kinds sucks.
The OTP cards are cool and all but you sure can't tell the colour identity of many of them without knowing or looking really hard (I wasn't familiar with i.e. surgical extraction and wouldn't know without the tooltip). Must be a super pain in paper.
It usually doesn't have an immediate effect when you play it, which is not ideal in a format as unforgiving as Timeless. It also doesn't double the effect from Hideous Laughter, which is one of the better "mill" spells.
The reason is very simple: it`s easier to prevent damage or regain life than it is to prevent mill or regain cards in your library. Just by playing you lose cards in your library which is not the case for lifepoints. I personally have a inherit hate towards all non-combo-mill-players (combo-mill beeing things like Painter/Grindstone, RiP/Helm of Obedience) cause every single time I got paired against a millplayer in a competitive encounter it was always the greasiest, most foul smelling dude with a disgust for soup you could find. I have yet to encounter a millplayer who is pleasant to play against.
@@kaemonbonet4931 Yeah but mono red players are chiseled with amazing jawlines and they usually show you pictures of all the girls they've been with on their phone immediately after they pass their 4 second turn.
@@napoearth but every deck wants you to not play your cards. Either you're hoping to get an insurmountable lead before the cards are useful, or you're trying to put together some value that engine that makes their cards worthless, or you're ignoring what they're doing and pulling a big fuckoff gun. That's aggro/tempo, mid-range/control , ramp/combo. There's "I win" decks and "you lose" decks and both want the same thing. None of the opponents cards getting chance to mess up their plan. What it comes down to for me is do you enjoy the game or do you enjoy navel gazing. It's one of the reasons I don't like commander as much as literally any other format. Commander is all about ignoring each other as opposed to 60 card formats where it's important to sculpt your interaction around the things happening in the meta. I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes you lose to burn. the experience is the same as losing to mill. Sometimes you lose to control, it feels the same as losing to mill. No matter what you lose to You took a slow hand, they had some good pieces and got started before you could get to killing them. Eventually you have to either build your deck to do better in the matchup or accept that the deck beats yours and move on.
Normally you still have priority before the turn ends. Arena will usually skip over it to save time unless you put a stop, although they've programmed a lot of cards to still hold priority if you can cast them for free, which sadly wasn't the case here.
you get me every time.. i start watching the video and get more and more confused the more cards i see until i finally realize "its NOT standard" ... it would be realy great if you could add the format on the thumbnail.. thx
@@LegenVD ya maybe its my own fault. i always skip directly to the gameplay. the detailed explanation of every card is a bit too dry for my taste... personal opinion, nothing to worry about. just a little suggestion, a single letter would be enough. S or E. edit: i see the problem, when i skip your Intro scene by pressing the right arrow key once, it skips in 5 second increments.. that brings me right behind the mentioning of the format... thats a habbit of mine for a long time already.. i never watch channel logo intros or the mandatory hello for the viewer. most channels are doing that and of course thats just social protocol but it's not of interest to me, at least not more then once per channel.
@@FalconDS9 I did this when Historic and Standard were the main formats on Arena by adding a special border around the thumbnail for Historic videos, nowadays there are way too many formats. Adding a symbol or letter would add unneeded clutter to the thumbnail and most people wouldn't know what it stands for.
Those are indeed options. Brainstorm does get punished by the omnipresent Orcish Bowmasters and in some of the faster games you don't always have time to cast a bunch of cantrips. Mana Drain is great, but the way this deck is configured we often want to tap out in our own turn, so keeping up double blue isn't always easy. I would certainly want some more counterspells in the 75 for combo and control matchups so we can swap them for removal.
Match 2 - Draw a winning card a turn before you lose. Match 3 - If you draw something, it gets instantly countered. Otherwise draw nothing but land. This is why I no longer play this "game".
@@ciesma6381 You could argue that Surgical Extraction is too, and even Ruin Crab after an initial investment. But Trap and Surgical are the only new cards for the archetype introduced in the latest set. There are various combo decks can mill an entire deck for "free" with the right interactions, but you wouldn't really refer to them as mill decks.
@@LegenVD I understand, but if You put a title: Free Mill (That means that all is for free). I supposed that You Will play a card that gives You the Power to mill for free in the rest of the Match, but you "create" a deck that is a copy of something that I already played vs a lot of times. That what i'm talking about. Where is your creativity?.
@@ciesma6381 I made this deck when the set just came out, so nobody was playing with these cards yet at the time. Doesn't surprise me that this strategy has picked up in popularity since. Sounds like your interpretation is having a copy of Omniscience on the battlefield, easy to accomplish with Show and Tell, but at that point there are better ways to win the game.
@@Skel_cat63 That is the problem. A game vs mill leaves both players in the position of playing a game of solitaire that requires zero skill. Goldfishing just isnt a good use of time.
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I love match 5 opponent's deck, just a 5 color saga deck in timeless. living their best life over there.
I don't know if you've played surgical before but it can be nice to wait for their draw step to use it since they might draw a copy of what you're extracting
Yeah good call, it's been a while!
Is there a time to response between draw and main phase?
@@Raghetielyou can act during upkeep
@@squizioo1098Upkeep comes before draw step. But yes, you have an opportunity to cast spells between their draw and their main phase.
@Raghetiel yes each player has the opportunity to gain priority after the draw but before the first main
Opponent spamming the snooze emoji like they aren't voluntarily playing in the strongest format on Arena lmao
Because they’re playing a cool reanimating strategy versus something that you literally can’t interact with since it’s BO1. Facing combo is basically a non-game.
@@PopeyesBiscuit-c6n found the guy
😴😴😴😴😴😴
@@PopeyesBiscuit-c6nthat’s why timeless is a meme format
Mill suuuuuucks
It's always a good laugh when an opponent spams. Just take the L, say good game, and concede. It's not that serious
with scheming symmetry from M20 you can force them to search their library while getting a copy of the archive trap so you can maybe mill for x times 13 on turn 1
The scheming symmetry, trapmaker's snare & mission briefing build was pretty spicy. Maybe some day they'll add merchant scroll to arena.
Yes but no? Even of you search another trap, you won't draw it to play it the turn they search
I had a play set of Glimpse the Unthinkable back when it first came out. ...I was not a popular kid at school, lols.
Lol
Still better than land hate. I’m a new gen magic player and just learned they use to print black cards that are also land hate.
Gotta keep the goofy decks honest with some mill amirite
Oh, you're not alone, mate. I had a control mill deck when I was a teenager, with crabs, Glimpse, Traps and Traumatize to mill, and Propaganda and counterspells to keep aggro decks at bay. Needless to say, it was traumatic indeed.
@@ERealslimshadyyeah baby sinkhole is an awesome card
Great video. Nice set of games, fun deck and informative commentary. Top quality as always.
I had a Tasha’s Hideous Laughter hit for 34 once. It was sick. It was against a mono red deck whose curve stopped at 1. 😂😂😂😂
Mono red decks with 1 drops that's my style of deck
@@dipian it was sick. I’m old. Like been playing since Beta old. I remember when Sligh//Geeba was invented and people started to build decks on a curve. It was mostly 1 drops. With some 2 drops. 4-6 3 drops. 2-4 4 drops and 2 Xspells for the finish.
I like the new animation when you draw from an empty library.
I think the skull is a bit gratuitous, but the blue/black swirls are cool
Timeless is such an interesting format
I've learned that arena will determine whether you can play a card or not, then engage the auto pass feature. If things change after that, it is still in auto pass mode. So you'll need to engage full control on turns you can't play anything but want to trap them.
Surgical Extraction is a fantastic spell to use for those pesky Gaea's Blessing cards that totally shut down mill decks. As soon as one triggers, cast it before it's effect resolves and you wipe ALL copies of it to prevent players from getting their graveyards back into their library. Things like Tormod's Crypt work well for that also but not many people use it that often
Edit: Tasha's Hideous Laughter is a massively underrated card also as it lets you nuke their cards into exile rather than the graveyard, thus avoiding the dreaded Gaea's Blessing triggers. I have 2 copies of Gaea's Blessing in my W/G/U deck that I play on Arena and the number of mill deck players that I've seen instantly scoop the second that I get my graveyard back with Gaea's Blessing is astounding. It's so immensely satisfying seeing half my library in the GY one turn and then getting it all back the next.
Although the opposite is true when they blast me with Tasha's and I lose both copies to exile. At that point I'm the one who scoops immediately
3 mana Ashiok is also pretty funny, Gaea's animation starts playing out like the cards are gonna go into the library, but then Ashiok's effect puts it all in exile before it can resolves.
Gaea's Blessing spells doom for mill decks, but everytime it's put in exile the opponents scoops immediately
You can also use stifle to stop blessing and it pulls double duty hitting fetch lands.
surgical extraction does not stop gaeas blessing as the effect is triggered and already on the stack
@@CatFinder3000 Is it not an instant? If so then SE can be cast in response to the trigger and if it resolves then the trigger won't occur because the last thing on the stack happens first remember?
@@davidcrawford5324 yes it is instant, but there’s a difference between the card and any effect caused by the card. Once the triggered effect goes on the stack, the location of the card itself doesn’t matter anymore. Surgical Extraction would exile all copies of Blessing you select, and then the effect of Blessing would still trigger since it is on the stack. So every card other than Blessing (because Blessing has been exiled by Surgical Extraction) would be shuffled into the library. Remember that for the effect to trigger, Blessing has already entered the graveyard, THEN the effect goes on the stack. So if you Surgical Extraction in response to the effect of Blessing, it’s already too late.
Personally, I've been playing with thr new Jace in mill. Plotting Maddening Cacophany and casting mill half for 4 mana is pretty good. Not to mention just plotting Tasha's, and the combo Jace has with Leyline of Anticipation.
I’d like to take the time to appreciate the breaking news flavor text. For example “ dead horse deliverers beating”
small tip. Use the surgical AFTER his draw step. Maybe he draws the card you want to extract and take another card from his hand.
Indeed! It had been a while since playing with the card.
I love mill it's so much fun. Also, love how you didn't acknowledge the person spamming the snooze emote at all can't give them the satisfaction.
Oh HELLS yes!!! I don't even like mill, but all is fair in a hyper strong format like Timeless. This deck is lethal and DISGUSTING and I love it!
Evil Luca is back in the house y'all!!! 😂😄🤘
Always a good day for Mill.
Yessss love the mill. Used to hate it so much but then I just embraced it. Still way cooler, more interactive and simply better than that endless Capenna landspam deck from Standard 🤣
Who hurt you ....?
Show us where the bad man milled you
My man here has never been milled before
Love me a good mill deck
I'd love to find a deck like this when I'm playing my silly mushroom deck that revolves around milling myself
RAAAAHH WE LOVE TIMELESS GAMEPLAY
Really like playing this kind of deck in bo3 with some thoughseize, couple of bounce spells for white leylines, cheap counterspells and the surgicals on the sideboard with some more card draw in the main. Really like the manabase, will copy it lol. Great video as always
I like your calm voice :D
Orcish Bowmaster be like: "LOOKS LIKE MILL IS BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS!" xD
Honestly really interesting to see this decklist basically as the missing link between Modern Mill and Pioneer Mill.
It is missing the other crabs and the Fractured Sanitys, but it has the traps and extractions.
Hopefully Pioneer gets some more mill cards, because currently the deck kinds sucks.
great vid
interesting list, thanks for the video
big mill fan. love it！
Mill players rise up!
Let's jump in some games and see how da deck doz!
Into*
Love me some mill!
Crazy mirror match at the end 😵💫
The OTP cards are cool and all but you sure can't tell the colour identity of many of them without knowing or looking really hard (I wasn't familiar with i.e. surgical extraction and wouldn't know without the tooltip). Must be a super pain in paper.
I want you to do a brawl deck with oko or a standard either one no one seems to do any 😢😢😢
Ah mill… the only thing worse than counter spells.
Blue, the color of sadness
The colour of no friends
WHY NO x4 FRAYING SANITY's
Listed In This Deck, It Doubles
ALL Of Ur Mill Card's ???
Also, I Would Add x4 TOXIC DELUGE'S
For More Creature Control...
It usually doesn't have an immediate effect when you play it, which is not ideal in a format as unforgiving as Timeless.
It also doesn't double the effect from Hideous Laughter, which is one of the better "mill" spells.
What cards do you recomend for bo3?
Quick tip: if you put a stop in your own endstep while the opponent's spell or ability is on the stack, you'll always get priority afterwards.
I shouldn't have to.
I would have punched my screen after that game 1 top decks...
All but the lands, you could make this exact same deck in Historic. Why not play it there instead?
Fetchlands enable our crab and we rely on opponents having them for Archive Trap.
23:50 My Arakis...My Dune...
No Prismatic Vista to go with crab?
There's other fetches we can play, but there's only so much room.
@@LegenVDYeah that makes sense. It was the 4-of Field of Ruin that made me ponder
I want to archive trap with the rebound god.
no cancophony needed
I just got back onto Arena because of Legend and got my butt kicked in a draft... luckily my duct tape mono green standard deck still works :,D
I'll never understand why people dont like mill. Its just burn, a check on the format. If you're too slow you lose.
The reason is very simple: it`s easier to prevent damage or regain life than it is to prevent mill or regain cards in your library. Just by playing you lose cards in your library which is not the case for lifepoints.
I personally have a inherit hate towards all non-combo-mill-players (combo-mill beeing things like Painter/Grindstone, RiP/Helm of Obedience) cause every single time I got paired against a millplayer in a competitive encounter it was always the greasiest, most foul smelling dude with a disgust for soup you could find. I have yet to encounter a millplayer who is pleasant to play against.
@@zirilan3398 you can beat mono red without playing life Gain. And mill is usually slower than that
@@kaemonbonet4931 Yeah but mono red players are chiseled with amazing jawlines and they usually show you pictures of all the girls they've been with on their phone immediately after they pass their 4 second turn.
Because like everything blue, it just tries to prevent you from playing your own cards. That's not fun. It's actually quite simple to understand.
@@napoearth but every deck wants you to not play your cards. Either you're hoping to get an insurmountable lead before the cards are useful, or you're trying to put together some value that engine that makes their cards worthless, or you're ignoring what they're doing and pulling a big fuckoff gun. That's aggro/tempo, mid-range/control , ramp/combo.
There's "I win" decks and "you lose" decks and both want the same thing. None of the opponents cards getting chance to mess up their plan. What it comes down to for me is do you enjoy the game or do you enjoy navel gazing.
It's one of the reasons I don't like commander as much as literally any other format. Commander is all about ignoring each other as opposed to 60 card formats where it's important to sculpt your interaction around the things happening in the meta.
I guess what I'm saying is, sometimes you lose to burn. the experience is the same as losing to mill. Sometimes you lose to control, it feels the same as losing to mill. No matter what you lose to You took a slow hand, they had some good pieces and got started before you could get to killing them. Eventually you have to either build your deck to do better in the matchup or accept that the deck beats yours and move on.
I think you couldn't play Archive Trap because there was nothing to play "in response" since the library searching happens after the cycling resolves
Normally you still have priority before the turn ends. Arena will usually skip over it to save time unless you put a stop, although they've programmed a lot of cards to still hold priority if you can cast them for free, which sadly wasn't the case here.
I like good sportsmanship, but I would never gg someone who counters literally everything you try to play.
Is this on standard
No this is Timeless.
you get me every time.. i start watching the video and get more and more confused the more cards i see until i finally realize "its NOT standard" ... it would be realy great if you could add the format on the thumbnail.. thx
I mention the format within the first 5 seconds. It's also written in the video description.
@@LegenVD ya maybe its my own fault. i always skip directly to the gameplay. the detailed explanation of every card is a bit too dry for my taste... personal opinion, nothing to worry about.
just a little suggestion, a single letter would be enough. S or E.
edit: i see the problem, when i skip your Intro scene by pressing the right arrow key once, it skips in 5 second increments.. that brings me right behind the mentioning of the format... thats a habbit of mine for a long time already.. i never watch channel logo intros or the mandatory hello for the viewer. most channels are doing that and of course thats just social protocol but it's not of interest to me, at least not more then once per channel.
@@FalconDS9 I did this when Historic and Standard were the main formats on Arena by adding a special border around the thumbnail for Historic videos, nowadays there are way too many formats. Adding a symbol or letter would add unneeded clutter to the thumbnail and most people wouldn't know what it stands for.
@@LegenVDmini ribbon on top right might work?
Is there a reason that the Fallout stuff wasn't added to online?
Its commander, legacy and vintage only.
why timeless instead of historic? Looks like its all valid in historic except the fetch lands?
Fetchlands are a big part of what enables Archive Trap.
Cycling is just a draw, not a search effect.
Swampcycling is a search.
@@LegenVD ah ok, I only heard “cycling” since the video was in my pocket as I work 8-5. Of which cycling isn’t a search.
@@ryanbolson23 Indeed, I even added a little popup to emphasize the Swampcycling, but you wouldn't have seen it.
what formats can this be played ?
Timeless
Why not brainstorm or mana drain??
Those are indeed options. Brainstorm does get punished by the omnipresent Orcish Bowmasters and in some of the faster games you don't always have time to cast a bunch of cantrips. Mana Drain is great, but the way this deck is configured we often want to tap out in our own turn, so keeping up double blue isn't always easy. I would certainly want some more counterspells in the 75 for combo and control matchups so we can swap them for removal.
MILL DECK???? Free like.
Man I am so glad I quit arena, this seriously looks miserable to play against - nothing sticks around to be used at all!
Match 2 - Draw a winning card a turn before you lose.
Match 3 - If you draw something, it gets instantly countered. Otherwise draw nothing but land.
This is why I no longer play this "game".
The timing on surgical is abhorrent. Draw step it my dude
Luckily I play MtG only online, otherwise lots noses of mill players would have "interesting shapes", not to mention their kneecaps! xD
Haha, violence!
Jesus Christ
Tellement mauvais comme deck 0 victory 6 loses
Where's the free mill. You pay for almost all. I thought You create a deck where you mill all for free.
Archive Trap is the big one, having everything be free wouldn't be very reasonable.
@@LegenVD One card is your free mill?.
@@ciesma6381 You could argue that Surgical Extraction is too, and even Ruin Crab after an initial investment. But Trap and Surgical are the only new cards for the archetype introduced in the latest set. There are various combo decks can mill an entire deck for "free" with the right interactions, but you wouldn't really refer to them as mill decks.
@@LegenVD I understand, but if You put a title: Free Mill (That means that all is for free). I supposed that You Will play a card that gives You the Power to mill for free in the rest of the Match, but you "create" a deck that is a copy of something that I already played vs a lot of times. That what i'm talking about. Where is your creativity?.
@@ciesma6381 I made this deck when the set just came out, so nobody was playing with these cards yet at the time. Doesn't surprise me that this strategy has picked up in popularity since. Sounds like your interpretation is having a copy of Omniscience on the battlefield, easy to accomplish with Show and Tell, but at that point there are better ways to win the game.
So, this is what cancer looks like from the other side😂
I immediately concede to mill. Its not interesting or fun. Its a solitaire goldfish deck, go play against the computer and stop wasting people's time
Lmfao nice opinions, do you cry when people play “paper” in “rock, paper, scissors”?
Skill issue
@@Skel_cat63 That is the problem. A game vs mill leaves both players in the position of playing a game of solitaire that requires zero skill. Goldfishing just isnt a good use of time.