Amen tanking kinda’ stinks. - You NEED to be a mechs expert - You CAN’T die - You can’t carry the group - You can’t be “fake,” but fake healers or DPS are everywhere - To do non-group content, you NEED another build (which sucks given the inventory and armory slot limitations) - The flashy sets (Frozen Watcher, Infernal Guardian, etc.) aren’t meta, and meta sets (except Turning Tide) are passive & boring - AND rude people still exist The one enduring benefit is that you’ll queue up quickly, very quickly!
Why would you want to fake tank or heal? Meta only really matters on the hardest organised content, but I'll grant you that you do generally spend 95% of your time using just 6 or so sets. It's hard to "express yourself" but then very few dds do either and they have the opportunity... But no - an endeless parade of Kinras, Nirn, Relequen... But yes, there are rude people about. Rarely the whole group though and you usually don't have to be the one to reply "wow, what are you using bigmouth - mouse clicks and Soggy Toiletpaper's Smite?"
@@Pooter-it4yg No disagreement here. I'm not a fan of actual fake tanks who can't/don't at least taunt dangerous foes. I don’t think anyone should want to be a sucky fake tank. However, I've noticed that some people have a double standard that tanks should be perfect, but DPS and healers can do whatever is convenient; that’s no good.
yes, and that benefit is sometimes bugged too. i mean wtf. if tank queue up sometimes its not instant or just dont go thru. i have to pass crown to dps for them to que or regroup/requeue because of this bug.
the armory cost being seprate for each toon, and you have to pay crowns for each is why there nobody bothering to have a tank build they can just switch to... i think they should of made armory slots cost gold for at least 2 more slots. and make armory slots universal when you buy the other slots that can cost crowns...i swair, zenmax is just so greedy when it comes to quality of life lmfao.
That one is the biggest bullshit i have seen. The fact they make you pay for each character separately is SO scummy. And if you purchase an armory assistent, they don't even give you a slot..for 50 dollars. The price on this assistance are ridiculous. The banker doesn't let you interact with your guild stores which i also find horrid.
I thought the new slots would keep the equipment with that armory slot without having to carry that gear around. Then I found it that's not happening. There are too many sets and not enough inventory space.
@@RagingRevine If you think armoury slots are bad, let me introduce you to mount upgrades that take HALF A FKN YEAR to max out PER CHARACTER. But of course, the store sells the unlocks for crowns at rediculous rates.........
@@Supadrumma441 I don't disagree. The mount shit is wild. If you're starting a new character you should not be required to upgrade the 3 stats all over again. It decentivizes people to make more than a few accounts if they decide to even make more than 1.
So I created learning groups, back in the day, on FFXIV. Now that we have a search engine in ESO for groups, its feasible to make learning parties. And in them, I set a rule that it required people who were patient and willing to learn, with ZERO toxicity. It usually worked out beautifully. Most ppl want this type of group to learn and relax, have fun, etc.
I'm not a great tank and don't have all meta loadouts for end game content, but I started tanking because of the shortage in general. My q times while playing as a tank are almost non existent so I've been enjoying learning. I think a big piece is not many people know mechanics. You also touched on how people expect everyone to know everything, which is why I mostly play dps when it comes to trial content. It's the one role I can confidently do without worrying about fucking the group up.
I agree with you there but there are some trials that depend on dps mechs. Vet DSR for example hehe. I also switched my stam dk DD to a full blown tank. Currently running Eternal Yokeda trial gear, leeching plates, and Lord Warden monster set. Frost staff back bar and sword/shield front bar. Also I’m an Imperial to help with sustain since tanks struggle with that.
Sometimes u have to not avoid it and just learn the mechs for learning sake just to be able to teach others so collectively the communities knowledge grows
I'm a tank main. I love the role of tanking. I think you've roughly identified the problems with it. Trials are honestly the most boring tanking because of the demand to conform to being a buff/debuff machine. I'd like to add a little something for everyone running random dungeons of any kind. The ONLY reason you won't find me there is because of a lack of decorum. I'm a proponent of the adage: "You pull it, you tank it." Of course when people get themselves killed they'll throw a legendary toddler tantrum because the tank didn't come save them from them being a jackwagon running ahead with their YOLO spec. In a nutshell, a large segment of the DPS community are entitled brats and it's not fun to tank for them. Tanks aren't shown any respect, common courtesy is rare, so it's no wonder we don't show up. Tanking is a fairly thankless job in any MMO but in ESO it's extra bad. Doesn't matter you've got every achievement for that trial, the normal diff pug is going to tell you that you don't know what you're doing. Doesn't matter you're the first real tank they've seen today, random dungeon DPS is going to sprint from start to finish and pull everything then blame you when they die.
I love tanking. My issue and the reason I don't actively look for trial groups, is people expect you to have the gear THEY want, run the skills THEY want and already know all the mechanics. I'm a passive player and do not study all the trials. I've found some cool groups that I play with. But I'll rarely answer the call for a PUG tank. Why put myself through the ridicule?
As an experienced player, both tank and dd, the main issue in veteran random dungeons is lack of dps and mechanics knowledge. A lot of content creators promote 1 bar builds that have no place in veteran content, they should tell their viewers the truth about what the builds are designed for.
Exactly this as a Tank in pve it’s so frustrating when you see DD’s just lighting heavy attacking not doing mechs not avoiding obvious mechs ect random vet dlc dungeons especially it just demotivates me to tank tbh it’s sad and I see the issue.
Well I've went into vet falkreath hold to help a friend and didnt even know it for a sec, i couldnt imagine doing it with randoms to be honest.. I admire eso that these dungeons have specific mechanics but for the first time its confusing to get insta killed after that (senche?) Tiger thing already did his power attack which I wasnt even in. Propably I missed something..
Most end game groups or guilds have a preferred tank (and a small handful of backups). When those tanks leave the game, they run into the issue of trying to find a tank. As a tank main myself, a lot of groups don’t want to take the time to help you learn. I’m fortunate some groups have taken a chance on me and have helped me learn.
As a dk main tank, i hate tanking in this game mostly because the DPS in pug groups are atrocious. No one knows the mechanics, you end up being the last person standing with your 8k dps trying to solo the vet boss for 20 mins just to get the clear, and the DPS output these days is the number one reason why i hate tanking. If I'm doing 8k dps, my CMX shouldn't show that I'm doing over 50% of the dmg. It's so INCREDIBLY slow. As the tank you'll take the aggro from enemies AND aggro from the group even if you're the only one still standing and no one is doing the mechs. No one is willing to learn, no one is willing to even try the mechs, all the DPS wants to do these days is keep trying the same thing over and over again like it'll magically work and they REFUSE to take blame that their DPS is god awful. There are some things that are just straight DPS checks but you as the tank will be blamed for it if the team wipes. If you tank in this game, i highly highly suggest you just tank for friends and experienced guild members. Never pug unless you want to waste hours of your life for a vet dung that could be ran in 30 mins or less.
Yea it’s just a big cycle. You start tanking, have a bad experience either from trying to learn or from dps being extremely low, then you remove yourself from the random pool to be with friends. Queue takes longer and so people queue up as a fake tank feeding the issue more. Never ending cycle 🥲
@@Cooperharley0204 you're absolutely right. I'm sorry but who wants to waste 2-3 hrs in a dung that could easily be done in 30-40 mins even with very mid DPS (sub 50k total group DPS if there's not a DPS check involved). A big issue is either the DPS is too low or the perks refuse to learn/do mechs. I have zero issues with a group that's low DPS but willing to do the mechs as long as there's no DPS checks
Of course the game has dps checks. This is for me the worst game design of all time. It's supposed to be the player overpowering the boss but just ends up forcing players to sacrifice everything to get 5% more damage.
Honestly the main reason there are so few tanks in endgame is because it is laughably hard to even start tanking in the first place. For example if I want to start tanking a normal Trial, I need about 2 trial sets (wich I can only farm as a DD or Healer since no group will accept me without the tanking gear). Getting in the Trial-Group as a DD is a big commitment in itself since you need to make time for a sceduled training run, be quick with the application and hit something like 85k+ on the 21 mil dummy to even meet the requirements of most guilds. Wich is just awful considering you have to do it on a role you propably don’t even want to play. And that is just to get starting with tanking. It is mindboggelingly frustrating to even get to the point of learning tanking mechanics that it is just a big turn of for any potential engame Players.
Yeah, I've been in PUGs in a final fight where as the tank I did 8k dps and the other 3 people who were light attack specialists managed 4k dps. Damn ZOS for nerfing light attacks! 😛 (Maybe I shouldn't be so critical of the Oakensoul HA builds and Arcanists)
to your note: It adds a little challenge cause the fights take longer. I don't think that's the case - i as a tank when questing am basically unkillable, i have self-heal, mitigation, whatever. So i just sit there constantly with 100% HP with fights just taking me longer, which is not a challenge if i essentially cannot die. It's more like unnecessary inconvenience.
I think the 1000+ cp players who have lost all enjoyment in the game and just speed run dungeons and dont wait for new players to quest will turn a lot of new players away from pve. In the last week i have had multiple runs where someone missed a boss and ruined the quest just because high cp level players refuse to wait. Everyone likes to complain about fake tanks but a new player wont care or notice there isnt a tabk. They will notice the dick that ran ahead and made them miss out completing the quest.
@@sigonellapc2 for some they just ignore and keep running ahead because they legitimately do not care and only care about completing the dungeon as fast as possible so they can get on with the rest of their dailies. I know it's a very small minority of high cp level players though most are great to play with. The pvp community honestly seems way more chill at least with people in their own faction.
Do you post "quest" in group chat? Then everybody knows. Otherwise WTF should I spend more time in a dungeon I've done literally 1000s of times? If you need the quest for your toon TYPE it!! Don't just say it because 99% of the time the audio is off when i play.
@@DS94everXev it literally makes no difference to the type of people I was talking about if you do or not. If you do slow down when someone says quest or you notice then at the quest giver then you are not the problem so thank you
I enjoy tanking. Knowing the mechanics. Guiding the group. Controlling the mobs. But it's entirely thankless. I try to keep mobs and pull mobs into aoe, apply debuffs. I supply backup healing, supply buffs, etc. It's pretty thankless though. Still, I'd rather do tanking that compete among the damage elitsts.
When I did play and was grouped with randos or organized group, I would tell them to f off if they tried to tell me what sets I should wear as a tank. "Get your happy arse over here and tank if you want those sets to be run." No one gets to tell someone how to play
I have to disagree with you about tutorials. In my opinion one of the greatest weaknesses of ESO is that it is bad at teaching people how to play. ZOS puts a lot of responsibility for this in the hands of the community. That means that people who don't seek out external resources and don't happen to stumble into a supportive guild, will most likely not even realize how much better they could be. A concept I have talked about in different places is to replace the Undaunted introduction quest where you have to enter a dungeon with a visit to an Undaunted training facility, where you can learn about the roles in group PVE and what is expected of them. Maybe place a portal in the enclaves, so players can go back there. ZOS is trying to appeal to a very casual audience. That means that many new players don't have any prior MMO experience and may have never heard of the holy trinity. If you teach them the basic idea behind every role, they probably not only become better at playing their own role, but also have a better understanding of what the other players in their group are doing. This could improve the conditions for new tanks by a lot, because even new players would have some basic understanding of the role and new tanks would start with a better foundation, so more experienced players would be more accepting of them. Of course, at some point you will not progress further without external resources, but as it is, many new players probably don't even know what to google for, if they want to get better.
I think you put too much expectations on tutorials actually working. People couldn't even read a tool tip that tells you an arcanist skill is a taunt. If they can't read a tool tip what makes you think they aren't skipping any "boring" dialogue.
@@badger_ninja8681 A tutorial would probably have to do a bit more than dialogue. Players could get temporary skill lines (like in Frostvault or Stone Garden) and do basic tasks for each role. For tanking it could be: You have a taunt and a chain, there is a big dummy and two small ones, taunt the big one, pull the small ones in. Of course, some people would still go trough it and learn nothing, but certainly not everyone. I encounter a lot of new players in a social guild and there are so many things they are unaware of, but most of them are willing to learn. As a new player, the game floods you with information and you have no idea what is actually important.
@@1Apep1 still ain't going to work. The average player can't even figure out quest boss mechanics. Like red is bad is taught and people still stand in it even interrupts and block/dodge mechanics are ignored. Like they are forced to do it in the intro and some seemingly never do it again.
I felt this to my core sir. Great points about a topic that is often the elephant in the room. The perpetual cycle of new players that are wanting to tank and failing to stick with it because of being frustrated or humiliated helps no one.
As an experienced tank and dps. In the beginning when a dps would complain. Id be like "cool let's switch then since you're a good tank. I thought the dps was low anyway."
The account wide stuff is weird. The crown store is so expensive for everything. They don't even realize if they made things account wide and reduced the prices MORE people would be buying it because it's cheap players would be less reluctant to make a purchase.
Make tanking MORE convenient. Add AoE taunts, give them better tools for complex trial mechanics and give them better buff sets for tanking. Theres not a single good reason that the most important role in trials is the most difficult and complex
Some of the problems for new tanks is they need to know the mechanics of the boss fights. The best way is to run these dungeons on normal, before going into vet content. The number of times I've had a pug member messages they have never done the dungeon before, playing on vet is crazy to me. I would never do that. Go do the dungeon on normal FIRST, get to know the lay of the land, & how to deal with the bosses. Another issue is Hard Mode, in the base game most just need the group to read a scroll, Which is even too complex for some group member to do. So when they do come to a HM mech that is complex, they fail miserably. The DLC dungeons I find are even worse, I really don't want to have to run to several different areas, just to pull a leaver, so I can activate the HM. Keep it simple, because most group players, can't even read a simple scroll. lol. But seriously, having to spend ten mins trying to activate the HM, can be a pain. Trying to keep a certain amount of enemy adds up, or start with a vast number of enemies first, ignoring an aid to heal or protect the group, can be problematic for many new players. Finally as stated, not having an AOE taunt, is a big issue. After killing the Tormentor armour set, there is really nothing in game that can effectively do this any more. Swarm mothers monster set has a limited effect, but still needs enemies to focus their attacks on the tank. I also agree having more MONSTER damage to enemies could help tanks in PVE do a bit more damage. So having access to Empowered on the Sword & Shield weapon passives, would be a good idea, as it has NO effects in PVP...
I remember when the devs tried to make Shield Bash actually do some real damage. My tank was hitting over 20k with it, & even more when it crit. But that was soon removed, not because of what I, or others were doing in PVE. It was the PVP players base fault, because they exploited it to such an extent in PVP, it was hitting over 40k, & even more when that crit...
Problem is that most normal versions of dungeons are pushovers where you can easily ignore mechanics. I really don't find that the normals do much, if at all, to prepapre me for the veteran version.
I practice tanking on vet dungeons not dlc dungeons but vet dungeons because I can’t learn mechs in normal dungeons because the enemy dies in 2 seconds, nor can I learn the layout because people just sprint through the dungeon
As a returning player who rolled a tank - its super fun when the group is chill. Ive tanked one trial and two vet dungeons now. Two of those experiences were amazing. The third was ok until the final boss, when one of the players got super nasty to me. I dont really think it was my fault we bricked on that boss, but dude just started shiting all over me. Made me never want to PUG again for vets.
A core memory I have when trying out tanking was fighting the final boss in Banished Cells 2. Our two DPS were around 200+ CP and neither could do a rotation to save their life (I think one dude was spamming crit rush the whole fight). Because you cant aggro the boss through taunt, I instead taunted every daedroth that spawned and brought them to the corner of the map so they wouldn't be in the way of the other group members. This fight went on for 30 minutes because not only was the boss taking very little damage but the two dps members couldn't stop the orbs in time from healing the boss. Eventually the number of daedroth exceeded around 20 or so and I was unable to keep them all aggroed causing the team to wipe. The dps guys got pissed and blamed me saying it was the tanks fault. Fortunately one of the dps dudes quit out and was replaced by a 1200cp character that knew what they were doing and we beat the boss in around 3 minutes. Moral of the story, tanking is a thankless job and is first to be blamed when disaster arises.
I switched to Tank recently. My POV is I get a lot of anger from groups for not being a good Tank at 2520CP. Issue is I was DPS until 5CP ago and played nothing but DPS until recently. So the hostility towards Tanks is so bad that no one wants to tank. It's a community attitude issue. I can leave a group, take the queue penalty and be back in a Vet DLC within 5 minutes. DPS and Healers can requeue for hours for all I care. If you want group content to be vibrant again. Be nice to tanks. That what I've learned
There is a simple fix. Have modes for each job, DPS, Healing and Tanking. DPS = no changes. Healing = -x% damage and +y% healing. Tanking = -x% damage and +200% aggro. Damage of other than DPS may go down, but they get a bonus to their role. In tanking, AOE damage is like a taunt, in that you are doing 3 times the aggro, but the Tank will still need taunts on the skill bar and to manage taunts, but damage is the AOE taunt, and it is enough damage to matter and be fun.
Well presented video. Very well thought through. I'm 10yrs in w/2 full tanks. Initially spec'd as tank. Levelled them as dps. Converted after finishing all bar skills and morphs. Highly recommended for new folks (not ALL skills, cause that's nuts) 😊
My first character was a tank. I don't remember a lot from when I first started, the endless misery that is tanking as noob will never be forgotten though.
CP 3000 and just started tanking and enjoying it. I will say it’s annoying when DPS runs ahead and doesn’t wait for me stack the ads. Also love zero waiting time for anything. Just started learning trial content and it’s difficult as people have zero patience and assume a level 3000 tank is an expert.
I’m a tank… running turning tide/powerful assault… fairly new to eso, like 1 month in… The eso community is not friendly 😂😂😂 Give me a chance to learn the mechanics BRO! Or try to help damn
Hello my Tank-Brother. I recommend you one thing....PLAY WHAT YOU LIKE! It makes the game a lot more fun. And thats the goal, having fun in the game. I Personally love frozen guardian set from Malatar and bloodspawn monster set as well as leeching plate. U can make anything work. Never stop messing around with sets. It is the most fun way to be a tank. Have a nice evening shield brother.
Make 1 fun tank DPS build for random normal stuff and questing and make a build if you have to tank for hard content for people you know that deserves to be there and not just looking for a carry. I have 5 different class tanks all sporting unique DPS tank builds which are fun and able to solo just about any world boss and solo any normal dungeon run, but I know enough that if I need to run trials or vet hard mode runs I need to run a different set so it's easy as hell enough to do. Join a guild you can have 5 different guilds, 500 per guild total 2495 potential semi vetted team mates for hard content.
@@eget4144 seriously???? 😒 You talk about trials and you don't know how to make a fun DPS tank build? Seriously? So a DPS kills it 30 secs faster .... That's an issue? 😂
This is facts XD I was just in a vDSA that I thought I'd help some people out with, and I have personally never seen the bosses get enraged in vDSA and I have been playing since 2015, and then, the healer blamed me and said they have gotten clears with lower dps. I have always loved tanking, but I have been playing mostly dps because tanking stuff is either impossible to clear if I go in as the tank, or they dont want me as tank because I havent tanked the content before.. which I do not understand, if I can't tank something because I havent tanked it before that means I just will never tank that content lol.
3:15 What you said is actually right. I am a new player who started playing 8 months ago. I got into tanking but let me tell you it is the most stress roll ever but if you make one mistake people just get so mad.
I think that’s the problem.. the majority of the player base is just DPS. I play every role I’m not a one trick pony we just need more people to play the other roles.. it not hard. And the type of people that say the other roles aren’t fun are just silly because they’re only saying that because they can’t damage on a tank or a healer.. like people don’t know how roles work just play the game! Makes me sad because 95% of the community are just cookie cutter builds we need to address that. Because when people just copy builds their not learning how to play.. it fucks shit up.. and we in a deep hole now I say rest everyone and let’s just start from the beginning…
Good video. Just got back into this game after a year break. Been queing as healer w/ SPC/PA in random norm and vet dailies for the transmutes. Though I have enjoyed PA in pvp, I want to get better at pve and this video made me realize I could be putting that ice staff to better use! Especially if a lot of tanks are already using this set then it means I'm not helping the group much. I'm gonna set up a tank tomorrow and start practicing, thanks for the motivation!
1. Tanking is complicated. Most people think you just stand there and hold block. Literally. I've had people say that that's all I do. 2. Tanks get no credit. After the completion of any group content, the deeps rant and rave about how hard they hit. Tanks and healers get no credit for actually making the completion possible for the parse monkeys. 3. Tanking requires intelligence. It's not just doing a rotation, it's dynamic and you have juggle responsibilities. Multitasking is kryptonite to lazy gamers. There aren't many endgame Tanks because not many wannabe Tanks can handle the pressure of endgame. They die or the let others die, and then they quit. Ask them... they will tell you straight up they're terrified to do hard stuff.
As a tank main, we're tired of the player bases's bullshit. Even if we are a mechanics expert there's always that one fucking dps who wants to be a shit head and not fuckin listen, who wants to make the entire experience unbearable because they refuse to listen. I make it a point to bully those players into leaving because my time is valuable to me, their inability to listen to a fucking thing. isn't. worth. shit. If you're the more saturated role in the fucking game that take maybe a minute to replace, you don't get to talk shit to me about being a "horrible tank" because you can't sidestep a red zone or because I pulled 20 adds and locked them down and you're mad about me missing the 21st add. I have a healer, and dps just so i don't get stuck having to deal with this 100% of the time. Also I 100% agree, with the 8:30 mark, coming to the realization that as a tank, my only real role was to be a cc and buff/debuff bot was really disheartening to me, and then having people call me a selfish tank for running Leeching or get mad at me for running leeching or mouth off to me about how i'm not a "real tank" because I'm not 100% using just utility sets? Like I'm running Pearlecent, Leeching, Magma Incarnate and void bash on a Nord DK, and that's not enough for you to be good at your job? Like I'm increasing your damage by 395 and giving you 3k resist and passively helping with damage and survivability. Why aren't you good enough at your job for that to be enough?
@@IseltheOverseer I will never forget the first time I had a group struggling because of a DPS, and he blamed me for not being better only for it to turn out that he could only hit 9k dps and I had to explain to him that your average tank or healer can hit 10k dps just by using a couple of different skills. They got pissed and blamed the fact they have a job so they can't be bothered.
True, I agree that a strong first step would be to improve the tank experience. However, I don’t think I fully agree on it being the community’s job to teach fundamental game mechanics. I tank almost every day I play but I am exclusively tanking for friends these days. Your average eso DPS player is *very bad* at the video game. It’s not meant as a personal insult, just an observation after thousands of hours in the game. I primarily blame ZOS but acknowledge the players do bear their share of the responsibility. I feel ZOS is at fault because they have pursued a playerbase who “main” the crown store and hasn’t educated them on the basic mechanics of the game at all. The tutorial is beyond elementary, and I think there are worthy group members out there who simply don’t know what the hell is going on haha. A lot of people say ESO is boring, but I think a major reason for that is that the tutorial has you light attacking the whole time and casting like one skill over and over. Get people involved in the combat mechanics early, let them have fun! However, I know it’s not just an education issue. I have also met a lot of players who think queuing for a dungeon means they are entitled to a clear. That’s not really much of a problem in and of itself for me, but it becomes a problem when they just mindlessly heavy attack without casting skills and ignore fight mechanics. I know we say this game has a great community, but honestly the most toxic people I’ve met are #esofam players who think you work for ZOS by tanking and that they’re paying your salary with their crown purchases or something lol. Never mind seeing that as a tank issue, I’m simply not going to play with someone who doesn’t respect other people. This is why I only do vet tanking with friends and guild mates now. Which, mind you, is a privilege as I actually *have* that network built up already. A new tank is out in the cold all alone which brings us back to needing to improve things on a game design level.
Getting my friend into tanking was a horrible experience for them - healers would constantly harass them for not being perfect. The armory thing also sucks; there's 3 roles, we should start with 3 armory slots!!!
When I first started playing this game, I initially had no interest in tanking. I just wanted to do damage and get my levels up. It didn’t take long for me to get board want to actually learn proper mechs and feel more of use to the player base as a whole. Made a new toon, DK, got some tanking sets and started my journey. Mind you it quickly became an addiction (I have 18 toons, 11 of which are tanks). And I’m still learning things daily. It’s not easy as most of the base expects you to automatically know every mechanic or buff/debuff everything. But they’re are those pug groups that will have that experienced player in it that will notice I’m not fully educated on the mechanics of a dungeon and take the time to talk me through it, give me some advice on certain sets, occasionally get an invite to help farm some sets. My point is, and it could be a little off topic I’m aware, they’re are people out there that are willing to help. And it makes tanking in this game rewarding. It’s a fucking slog sometimes. But learning the content, building your tank and trying to help other players is what keeps me tanking.
To be honest, if you are a good tank you don't need tormentor. Makes things easier for newer players, but it is not good in endgame content. Before the last update I recommended the set for players who don't know a lot about tanking and just want to do random normal or pledges. For "harder" content it is a waste.
The lack of a basic threat system makes it really boring to play, I don't want to spend the first minute of a fight running around taunting everything one at a time, or having to make going after and taunting an add my top priority. I don't necessarily need an aoe taunt, but just some passive aggro generation from aoes and cleaves like tanks in basically any other MMO gets just to pick up adds easily would be nice. In general tanks are less common in MMOs simply due to the pressure, in most MMOs a DPS can die and the only consequence is a slightly longer fight, but if the tank dies it's basically a guaranteed wipe, so anyone not confident that they'll never mess up a mechanic can't tank without feeling like a burden. The solo aspect is definitely a problem, I can use the same buildi use for group content for solo content as a DPS, but not as a tank. The only character I've really enjoyed tanking on so far is my arcanist, and a part of the reason why is that I can easily set it up for solo overland just by slapping fatecarver on my bars. Doesn't do as much as an actual dps build, but at least I can kill a story boss in less than 3 minutes.
I tried switching to tank as its what Ive always played in MMOs. I got trashed talked by a few groups for not "knowing" everything even after telling them I was new to tanking. I havent logged into that toon for over two years.
Yea MMO players can be shitty, but ESO’s community is still the best I’ve been a part of out of every MMO I’ve played. Always gunna have bad apples, but hopefully that didn’t push you away! Keep going! :)
Nice takes. I am a new player in ESO and I can see the lack of tanks is noticable in the community. Monetization is also running on the greed edge. May be tank changes are NECESSARY to make them more appealing? :D Maybe (wink-wink Dev team, if you are reading)
They need regular dungeons that teach mechanics, not bosses that hot harder but something like boss gets healed for every missed mechanic and start with more health. The normal dungeons as they are teach nothing, you cant even learn them the way they are.
it would be really cool, if Zos found away to have a tank trainer ( similar to the trial dummy) where it would run you through mechs of bosses or something, I dont know exactly how it would work but it would be awesome.
You can build tanks that do good damage. All my tanks do over 20k dps on the 6 million dummy. This works fine in the vet DLC dungeons or normal trials. In vet trials you typically have to wear what the group/raid lead demands to optimize the buffs/debuffs. If you don't do vet trials there's no reason you can't do good damage as well as tank properly. It's harder to play in vet DLC dungeons with pugs, but it's part of getting good at the game. I recommend go full tank first and learn to stay alive, then add damage skills/traits/sets as you get more sure of your abilities. When you choose sets, pick those that boosts both your damage and that of the group, that way you fill your support role as well as boost your own dps.
As an end-game tank with 7 years playing I can honestly say rudeness is the number reason I stopped tanking for people. I've become a "selfish tank" over the years as a matter of necessity. People in general demand too much from tanks to make it enjoyable. With the release of NECRON I finally switched to DPS because I've finally had too much.
God I hate that term, selfish tank. I can understand going selfless with Guildies where you have a rapport and know each others tendencies but with randoms, which is the most common type of group? Hell no.
I've got an unkillable necro tank for most random vet dungeons regards of DPS. It is 100% carry any group with reanimate and I used to love doing random vet dailies to help people. Maybe again one day @@-_-DatDude
2 months ago I started tanking on a CP200+ character, but I was afraid people would judge me, because I was new and didn't know all the mechanics. Luckily I found a guild who help me with vet dungeons (especially the DLC ones) so I can learn the mechanics. Once I did vet pledges with randoms and after that a rvd with my guild. we got the same dungeon as for one of the pledges, but it was so slow, because the dps was not so good. It felt horrible. I did not get yelled at so far, but I didn't do end-game stuff yet, so that's probably why. one person just asked me why I was still using the Ebony Set. I just answered, that I like the red bubbles and that if I did not use it during that run, I would have died, because they rushed the dungeon and I got stuck with 40 enemies around me.....
very balanced input and I hope ZOS implements even half of what you have suggested my priority list would be 1. making tank fun in the general game 2. making armory account wide 3. making gets sets/skills for tanks/healers way easier/less time consuming
maybe if being a tank didnt mean you had to get like 5 sets and use only those takeing all build veriety away just because 1 dps thinks they are too important to give up 1 of they sets to bring a group buff to the team rather then it being the tanks job to respec just so they can do they job...as well as nerfing themselves and takeing all the build craft out of the game. maybe then tanking would be more popular. i myself very much enjoy tanking until im REQUIRED to throw my build out the window because the dps cant deside to bring a set that would be actualy useful to them besides the buff the 5 piece gives. takes all the buiild craft out of the game and i feel like thats a problem that prevents tanking from being more popular it sure curbs my fun playing the game on a tank.
Been playing this game for a month and I'm lovin it. Upon watching this video, Ig choosing the tank role was the right decision I made and in hopes i could atleast do the community a teeney weeney favor lol
I don’t care about damage as a tank, I just want to stack all the trash mobs with something like vat sword and board and aoe taunt, so the dps can do their job. When I dps and have a tank that doesn’t stack or aoe taunt it gets so tedious to kill trash mobs. That’s my only gripe.
Yeah exactly, I wouldn’t have recommended that set for anything above vet base game pledge runs, but it made those runs smooth for everyone. So I believe having an aoe taunt outside of a 5 piece set bonus would be the thing that both makes tanks want to run random vet dlc dungeons and would help dps clear trash easier. Soft taunts are fine with an experienced group.
Thats why yoz can easily bring a chain like silver leash without dps loss on a DD ^^ I normally chain in all adds the tank didnt get with Vat SnB The tank can focus on the big adds and not worry about trash As DK you have the additional bonus that you can taunt with chains and keep trash off of newer or weaker players ;)
You and others have said it, and it has been my experience as well being one who started a main as a healer. Nothing is more frustrating in the game than bad DPS. I don't think that many expect them to be a meta top tier DPS, it's just actually shocking how bad/low they can get. Practically useless sometimes. Sometimes literally worse than a companion. I have had to port out of runs where I was running a support role to swap over to DPS to just finish a run. End game tanks or healers? Yeah, they ain't got not time for that and won't even mess with pugs.
I have an end game tank character with all of the sets (not perfected) and skills. I've tanked all the normal trials, all the dungeons and DLC dungeons on vet. My trials guild insists I have a certain number of vet hard mode clears BEFORE I can join any progression groups to vet trials. So I'm stuck. I'm ready and think I can get through vet trials, but I don't get the chance. All pugs and group finders require a vet clear to participate, and that would be a rough intro to a vet trial. I am content to do vet without hard mode, though I have a bunch of vet hard mode DLC dungeon clears. I have been working 1.5 years to qualify for their criteria to tank vet trials.
I'm the player you're describing here. I made a tank with tormentors because it was fun.... well that's gone so I made a DK cookie-cutter tank to try to learn about tanking and it was mind-numbingly boring. I have absolutely zero interest in tanking now and i'm definitely not going to run around spending hours doing overland content on my tank when i can just blaze right through it with a DPS.
Played ESO since console beta. I dont play ESO as much now but when I do, I exclusively play my tank build in dungeons due to que times(one character account but 8 builds). I found tanking on ESO to be miserable for the 2 following reasons: 1. You're expected to intrinsically know every mechanic in every dungeon or trial regardless of how new it is. Its a standard other roles aren't really held too. 2. The community. My pet peeve when I tanked in ESO was DPS running ahead of me and aggro'ing stuff like they are trying to speed run in PUGs instead of guilds. Respect my authoritah! Oh and theres also the fact that people are either rude on EU or theres a language barrier.
I've been a tank main for more than a year now just from the sheer fact of bad tanks in vet content to be honest. I was explaining mechanics and I was a dps main and the tank continuously did not execute the mechanics and ended up just rage quitting. I truly love tanking in ESO due to the fact how much in demand they are both in trials and in every queue. I ended up finishing so much more achievements, collected more dyes, more gear due to tanking. My tank is my gear grinder while now I mainly PvP atm. I do agree people with bad DPS LA and HA or using Oakenclutch/puncturing sweeps and still dying got really annoying.
I'll say for me personally that I loved taanking with a group that was growing and working on doing harder and harder content. Then drama busted up the group, so we had trouble filling a full roster from that small guild. I couldn't get a co-tank for trials and no one else wanted to tank. It's been nearly 3 months since I started looking for another endgame group and the best I've been able to play as is dps or support dps. Endgame groups prefer to go with their known tanks, leaving little opportunities for us other tanks to try the harder content. Now I seem to be EC Cro jailed because no dps wants to do such low numbers in a group. 😢
Thats why I adapt my builds to the content. Shouldn't be trying to bring meta setups from group content to solo gameplay. It has its own metas. Love my tanks, but also could go for some changes.
My solution is tanking in PUG groups on a frost warden with a taunt and double ice staves to still do as much damage as I can. Works well for most vet group dungeons in the game.
I use to normal and vet tank all the time, and was really good at it. But recently other classes in the game have started taking over the tanks role and then yelling about how inefectual of a player they are when everyone keeps dying. I havent played in three months because of not being able to find a group willing to cooperate long enough to learn mechanics and each others strengths and weaknesses. Yet I keep hearing about how helpful the community is. From my standpoint, players have become pure toxic and dont learn their roles.
I've not watched all of this yet, but i can already agree with most of it. I started playing as dps. But in my guild, we had the need for a tank - so, for us to be able to do content, i leveled a redguard dragonknight (boo hiss, i hear - for the naysayers, get knotted, i make it work) to tank with. I actually love tanking - with people i know. I refuse to pug as tank, The couple of time i tried, i was left behind to kill everything whilst the others zerged past everything to the final boss. That said, i have stepped into a dungeon for another guild who put the call out for a tank due to the group losing two others leaving......i found out in very short order that they were trying to burn stuff that just shouldn't be burned and they kept wiping. So then i played mentor and we got thru (after several wipes for not listening). I also refuse to pug as healer (my least favourite role, but i'll do it if asked) for the same reason i won't pug-tank.....a healer cannot be left behind with a squillion adds and a minor boss - i'm sorry, a real healer just can't. I don't use the armoury - it is expensive to add slots, AND it is way too easy to overwrite a build and lose everything. SETS - OMG.....!!! I refuse to join any craglorn group or other guild trial runs because i don't have everything they specify! Even guilds with discords who spruke that they are all about players learning how to do stuff are putting requirements on players. Evedrything from sets to skills and cp placement. I do not run tormentor, i think i did when my tank was a 'baby', but that wasn't for long. I have i think pearlescent and powerful assault on her currently, with sword and board from dragonstar arena - BUT i can manage most things when i have support and encouragement from the group.....being the only tank in normal cloudrest isn't fun. I'll never own perfected gear, and i'll never get the other sets completed to use - why? - because my guild is all but dead, and we haven't had enough players to fill a trial in over a year. I have 2 or 3 vet trials under my belt only. Warhorn - whilst i have it - it's effing expensive to trigger! it costs twice as much as my shield ulti.....i don't use it....is that bad - probably - do i know 'when' to cast it? no. What's more confusing is some groups (from what i heard) tell you not to use it, others demand that you do - well sorry, if i need to shield to keep alive and aggro, you better believe i'm doing that. FInal note - i tried to make a comment on that thread - but it won't let me - even after i logged into my account and searched the thread manually - it wanted a log in - which it said was invalid!!
I'm not sure why so many people saw Tormentor as being a sub-par tank set. The proc gave you a huge un-named buff to your resists, as well as AOE taunting (if the right skills proc-ed it). This idea that tanks in ESO exist to fluff the DPS is offensive on so many levels. "Hold agro and don't die."
I wanted to play tank but apparently being a 2h tank was a massive problem so I stopped, then there was the speeding through dungeons so I couldn’t get the lore which made me not care about what I was doing which made me in turn not care as much about the rest of the game. I still play now and then but I more or less act as though dungeons and trials just arent in the game.
Too true about the 3 dps groups, I had my healer change to a half setup for my dungeon HM prog group its just been easier. Although I have to say they still blame for when they have died for not paying attention. have to say I main an Arc tank its been a whole lot of fun to play I actually enjoy it but sadly end game players do NOT want an arc tank or it has been requested that I do 50k damage as one lol.
Speaking as a babytank just learning to walk. I stay far away from PUGs as possible. That being said. Shout out to my awesome guild for being super encouraging and nice to me. I'm very tankful. :3 Gameplay wise ZOS could make some improvements, Unlockable armory slots via gameplay, cool tank sets. special achievements when you play support roles in vet dungeons or somthing like that.. Or just a freaking ingame tutorial for those just starting out.
I used to tank when I do PVE content, but too many ppl bitching about not knowing everything in every dungeon... I'll just run solo on a high DPS build. Those elitist crybabies can just sit in their shitty queues.
Problem is that pvp and pve are not separated correctly. If you buff tanks pvp would be screwed. I’m also a tank main and yea it sucks because most people’s dps sucks ass and I just have to deal with it, nothing I can do.
They could also just implement a simple toggle “pve” or “pvp” (like “normal” and “veteran” are used for group finder) that you would switch between, depending on content, that could buff/debuff skills
I use my second armory slot for a tank mostly to queue quick in daily randoms but also tanking is fun until you get low dps and the dungeon lasts forever
I just came back a month ago after not playing for over 2 years. I wonder if this is an issue on PS5. I made my dragonknight for tanking and found it hard to quest with, and I went with a solo stamina build. If there is an issue, I can start crafting up a tank set and level my skills.
There's a lot of good, newbie-friendly tank sets available in the game. Basic Sets like Leeching Plate, Crimson Twilight, Ebon Armory, Brands of Imperiun (to name a few) can make newbies & casuals tanky enough while their learning. One problen that I see is some groups being impatient enough to see newbies & casuals join harder content (vet dgs and trials) wearing an off-meta tank set and kicks them off right away. This makes a lot of newbie tanks switch from tank to dd or worst, just quit the game entirely. I do understand the need & practicality of wearing meta sets in harder content. Just saying that getting kicked because of wearing a basic, off-meta tank set can be a big turn off for new & casual players. Especially tank players.
I think in a way that you feed into that a little bit, and you expose the greater problem. When you said that you would rather run with 1 tank and 3 dps. Where are healers supposed to learn? Healers need to learn the mechs too, and hopefully the have most of them down before they step into vet. That leads to the base issue though. ZOS made damage king. Hardly anything else matters. Almost all mechs can be bypassed by more damage. And when they do try and balance things out you wind up with something like vDSR where all it takes is a missed block by the OT and its a group wipe. And this comes from someone who plays all 3 roles well.
100% but at the end of the day normal is so easy that supports aren’t needed and that’s a large part of the problem. Most people that have been playing the game a while know that and that’s unfortunate. So when people get to veteran there’s mechanics they’ve never seen before. There’s just a huge learning curve and it’s hard to get there. Something that ZOS definitely needs to be looking at and that I haven’t seen any acknowledgement of
It doesnt help that its also pushed on us by the community that only DK or Necro can tank. Zos could scale damage to monsters based on armor value or max health, that would allow tanks to do damage without having to change too much.
i agree that zos need to make new stuff so its fun to tbe a tank in other areas of the game. got 4 tanks and they never get used outside of dungeons and trials and they are theme builds/fun build
I’ve been a tank since I started and didn’t even know the taunt abilities or uses. I actually never played an mmo at all. It made it worse at low levels, I didn’t know much about armor sets, or champion points. Let me tell you, I’ve been blamed for everything going wrong and kicked from groups. It’s a horrible feeling being constantly being told how bad I was. But every once in a while, I would get players who would tell me and help me during dungeons. Along with a little bit of research, I was able to get better. Still not the greatest at it getting the basic concepts now helps a lot. So now I just get shitted on sometimes. 😂
ZOS is gonna sell you the aoe taunt at a point. Im guessing the scribring system is gonna let you modify skills to make them aoe, including a taunt. Thats why the random nerf to tormentor. They always do this. Thats why the mid - endgame is problematic, cause new players gives them proportionally more money, new character slots, crates (they dont have 20+ mounts yet), dlcs bought, costumes, personalities etc, you only buy those things once, or for crates, like twice, cause you already have something that comes from them
@@Deinareia yeah but idk about the skill that is gonna apply to... like is the new modifiable skill for the 1h/shield a taunt? For what ive understood, its gonna be 1 new skill to each weapon which we gonna be able to modify, but yeah its very likely
@@ItzGenesis If I recall correctly, they were showing a new bow skill - it was an aoe. They showed aoe heal applied to it, but the list of available effects did also have a taunt.
I think the amount of fake tanks also makes it so late game they cant just que up anymore. The Other tanks can not learn the mechanics when they were easy but the crazy dps just blast past the bosses.
I cant agree on this completly Yes tgere are alot of fake tanks, but also fake DDs are nothing to sneeze at. I regularly queue as fanke tank (I always bring taunt, cause nothing gives less dps then a boss running wild) I neraly always get a queueproc within 30s, and if not then its mostly missing healers or DDs :/ Maybe this is different on other platforms or regions but Euw its not really an issue for tanks 😅
@DJxYoungz But the main issue is that people aren't allowed to learn the correct role, dps should be able to learn the role at the same time as the tank. Using your example the dps are not good and aren't being shown why. Not everyone is good at the role they are playing. And yes there are millions of resources online but that doesn't change they fact that low dps exists and that in some cases low heals and bad tanks are also not learning. When a super high dps just runs through a dungeon how should the others learn? A fank isn't allowing anyone to do there role/part
@@theterrorvortex6415 I think thats more of a groupfinder / reward issue. But changing the groupfinder will open a can of worma nobody wants. They could lower the rewards for rnd normal then there would be more incentive to rnd vet for those who want to do that. Speedrunners could get a separate queue (>lvl50) with lower rewards but be able to do them more than once per day -> ending on a equal rewards like rnd vet. This queue could have no role requierments and be completly random. But doing something like this will delude the normal queuepool way to much and no groups will be filled. Its kind of a lose-lose situation at the current stage of the game. This could maybe be fixed by buffing tank dmg for PvE specifically. So they dont have to carry the fights in full survival setup with like 8k dps while grouped with fake DD or heal.
@@DJxYoungz See I can agree with the smaller changes you listed however I would like to see them do something like other mmos do and instead of pushing everyone up to a high level of power (I.e maxing there dungon stats) They can lower everyone to a certain point. Like grotto can be level 10 and white gold tower can be 50 and just power scale everyone so, hey super high level dps boss slapped you for all your health.
it's just so frustrating that groups keep asking me achievements clear, i have collected tank gears from essentials to situationals but it's so hard to get a proper group
Having access to more transmutes, or at least more affordable transmutes would make things easier to get started. there's no reason why if I already have the part available to transmute that it should cost me 50 crystals but 25 if I collect all the pieces for the set in my book.
I see and hear a lot of responses talking about the problem being the community's opinion and the lack of damage. I dont MS tank, i MS heal but i wouldn't mind having some tank character's sitting around. But i have to ask- Does anyone think the issue is the quest/daily system and material requirements? A lot of people just want to do their 3+1 (3 pledges and 1 random) and move on. Maybe if ZOS lowered the transmutation stones and key requirements, prioritized pledges through random que, or something that will just make people slow down, there wouldn't be such a rush to blitz through everything. I think making monster's hit harder to people who don't have the "tank" role will put some love on tanks too. I stick with the tank in content as a healer but its not uncommon to see DDs blitz ahead and start fighting things without the tank.
i started tanking ( basic gear so far TT/Peralescent/crimson/ spaulder/archdruid/sax- dont have mats for the rest) but learning without fucking ppl and getting yelled at is oof. Did some vet dungeons so far since i know em well from Dding and getting achievs there but learning trials is big hurdle for me to wanna do
Am new to tanking but I will always wait and explain or let newbies do their quests. I also let people know if the content is new to me and feel free to swap me out. Personally? I rather stay in a dungeon after completion until every bag, box, container is searched. lol.
I feel the same, i played a tank in dcuo and it was a blast, till the game got very boring. Esos tanking is very monoton, not a lot of variation, especially wenn they nerfed Mistform. It was so much fun with Mistform but now i'm working on a tank that i like and enjoy to play. I couldn't care less of other players wanting me to play a specific way. Its my character not theirs, so they should keep out of my gameplay, or do it they're selves. The prioritys are only to keep the group safe and lower resistances, that's it. The rest is up to you what you like to do. No wunder there is a shortage of tanks, nobody wants to get told how to play their character, they want to enjoy the game in their off-time.
Amen tanking kinda’ stinks.
- You NEED to be a mechs expert
- You CAN’T die
- You can’t carry the group
- You can’t be “fake,” but fake healers or DPS are everywhere
- To do non-group content, you NEED another build (which sucks given the inventory and armory slot limitations)
- The flashy sets (Frozen Watcher, Infernal Guardian, etc.) aren’t meta, and meta sets (except Turning Tide) are passive & boring
- AND rude people still exist
The one enduring benefit is that you’ll queue up quickly, very quickly!
Why would you want to fake tank or heal? Meta only really matters on the hardest organised content, but I'll grant you that you do generally spend 95% of your time using just 6 or so sets. It's hard to "express yourself" but then very few dds do either and they have the opportunity... But no - an endeless parade of Kinras, Nirn, Relequen...
But yes, there are rude people about. Rarely the whole group though and you usually don't have to be the one to reply "wow, what are you using bigmouth - mouse clicks and Soggy Toiletpaper's Smite?"
@@Pooter-it4yg No disagreement here. I'm not a fan of actual fake tanks who can't/don't at least taunt dangerous foes. I don’t think anyone should want to be a sucky fake tank.
However, I've noticed that some people have a double standard that tanks should be perfect, but DPS and healers can do whatever is convenient; that’s no good.
yes, and that benefit is sometimes bugged too. i mean wtf. if tank queue up sometimes its not instant or just dont go thru. i have to pass crown to dps for them to que or regroup/requeue because of this bug.
Tanks are essentially the leader of the group lol
Tanking used to be fun when building a tank was all about making it a wallking fortress. Now tanking is all about buff the dps with some dlc sets
the armory cost being seprate for each toon, and you have to pay crowns for each is why there nobody bothering to have a tank build they can just switch to... i think they should of made armory slots cost gold for at least 2 more slots. and make armory slots universal when you buy the other slots that can cost crowns...i swair, zenmax is just so greedy when it comes to quality of life lmfao.
That one is the biggest bullshit i have seen. The fact they make you pay for each character separately is SO scummy. And if you purchase an armory assistent, they don't even give you a slot..for 50 dollars. The price on this assistance are ridiculous. The banker doesn't let you interact with your guild stores which i also find horrid.
I thought the new slots would keep the equipment with that armory slot without having to carry that gear around.
Then I found it that's not happening.
There are too many sets and not enough inventory space.
@@RagingRevine If you think armoury slots are bad, let me introduce you to mount upgrades that take HALF A FKN YEAR to max out PER CHARACTER.
But of course, the store sells the unlocks for crowns at rediculous rates.........
@@Supadrumma441 I don't disagree. The mount shit is wild. If you're starting a new character you should not be required to upgrade the 3 stats all over again. It decentivizes people to make more than a few accounts if they decide to even make more than 1.
So I created learning groups, back in the day, on FFXIV. Now that we have a search engine in ESO for groups, its feasible to make learning parties. And in them, I set a rule that it required people who were patient and willing to learn, with ZERO toxicity. It usually worked out beautifully. Most ppl want this type of group to learn and relax, have fun, etc.
I'm not a great tank and don't have all meta loadouts for end game content, but I started tanking because of the shortage in general. My q times while playing as a tank are almost non existent so I've been enjoying learning. I think a big piece is not many people know mechanics. You also touched on how people expect everyone to know everything, which is why I mostly play dps when it comes to trial content. It's the one role I can confidently do without worrying about fucking the group up.
I agree with you there but there are some trials that depend on dps mechs. Vet DSR for example hehe.
I also switched my stam dk DD to a full blown tank. Currently running Eternal Yokeda trial gear, leeching plates, and Lord Warden monster set. Frost staff back bar and sword/shield front bar. Also I’m an Imperial to help with sustain since tanks struggle with that.
Sometimes u have to not avoid it and just learn the mechs for learning sake just to be able to teach others so collectively the communities knowledge grows
I'm a tank main. I love the role of tanking. I think you've roughly identified the problems with it. Trials are honestly the most boring tanking because of the demand to conform to being a buff/debuff machine.
I'd like to add a little something for everyone running random dungeons of any kind. The ONLY reason you won't find me there is because of a lack of decorum.
I'm a proponent of the adage: "You pull it, you tank it."
Of course when people get themselves killed they'll throw a legendary toddler tantrum because the tank didn't come save them from them being a jackwagon running ahead with their YOLO spec.
In a nutshell, a large segment of the DPS community are entitled brats and it's not fun to tank for them. Tanks aren't shown any respect, common courtesy is rare, so it's no wonder we don't show up. Tanking is a fairly thankless job in any MMO but in ESO it's extra bad. Doesn't matter you've got every achievement for that trial, the normal diff pug is going to tell you that you don't know what you're doing. Doesn't matter you're the first real tank they've seen today, random dungeon DPS is going to sprint from start to finish and pull everything then blame you when they die.
I love tanking. My issue and the reason I don't actively look for trial groups, is people expect you to have the gear THEY want, run the skills THEY want and already know all the mechanics. I'm a passive player and do not study all the trials. I've found some cool groups that I play with. But I'll rarely answer the call for a PUG tank. Why put myself through the ridicule?
As an experienced player, both tank and dd, the main issue in veteran random dungeons is lack of dps and mechanics knowledge. A lot of content creators promote 1 bar builds that have no place in veteran content, they should tell their viewers the truth about what the builds are designed for.
Exactly this as a Tank in pve it’s so frustrating when you see DD’s just lighting heavy attacking not doing mechs not avoiding obvious mechs ect random vet dlc dungeons especially it just demotivates me to tank tbh it’s sad and I see the issue.
These HA sorcs typically stand in the most remote corner possible as well.
But but but my build is INSANE UNKILLABLE GOD LIKE DESTROYER OF UNIVERSES heavy attack nightblade 😭
@@kravez16this is so true. Had a level 3500 in my vet dread cellar that was literally doing less damage then my healer
Well I've went into vet falkreath hold to help a friend and didnt even know it for a sec, i couldnt imagine doing it with randoms to be honest.. I admire eso that these dungeons have specific mechanics but for the first time its confusing to get insta killed after that (senche?) Tiger thing already did his power attack which I wasnt even in. Propably I missed something..
Yea queue times for a dungeon as dps is ridiculously long. My tank instant joins a dungeon. So wild.
Most end game groups or guilds have a preferred tank (and a small handful of backups). When those tanks leave the game, they run into the issue of trying to find a tank. As a tank main myself, a lot of groups don’t want to take the time to help you learn. I’m fortunate some groups have taken a chance on me and have helped me learn.
As a dk main tank, i hate tanking in this game mostly because the DPS in pug groups are atrocious. No one knows the mechanics, you end up being the last person standing with your 8k dps trying to solo the vet boss for 20 mins just to get the clear, and the DPS output these days is the number one reason why i hate tanking. If I'm doing 8k dps, my CMX shouldn't show that I'm doing over 50% of the dmg. It's so INCREDIBLY slow. As the tank you'll take the aggro from enemies AND aggro from the group even if you're the only one still standing and no one is doing the mechs.
No one is willing to learn, no one is willing to even try the mechs, all the DPS wants to do these days is keep trying the same thing over and over again like it'll magically work and they REFUSE to take blame that their DPS is god awful. There are some things that are just straight DPS checks but you as the tank will be blamed for it if the team wipes.
If you tank in this game, i highly highly suggest you just tank for friends and experienced guild members. Never pug unless you want to waste hours of your life for a vet dung that could be ran in 30 mins or less.
Amen. I haven't pugged random normal solo in a long time. And shit group dps makes tanking much harder too.
Yea it’s just a big cycle. You start tanking, have a bad experience either from trying to learn or from dps being extremely low, then you remove yourself from the random pool to be with friends. Queue takes longer and so people queue up as a fake tank feeding the issue more.
Never ending cycle 🥲
@@Cooperharley0204 you're absolutely right. I'm sorry but who wants to waste 2-3 hrs in a dung that could easily be done in 30-40 mins even with very mid DPS (sub 50k total group DPS if there's not a DPS check involved). A big issue is either the DPS is too low or the perks refuse to learn/do mechs. I have zero issues with a group that's low DPS but willing to do the mechs as long as there's no DPS checks
Of course the game has dps checks.
This is for me the worst game design of all time. It's supposed to be the player overpowering the boss but just ends up forcing players to sacrifice everything to get 5% more damage.
Honestly the main reason there are so few tanks in endgame is because it is laughably hard to even start tanking in the first place.
For example if I want to start tanking a normal Trial, I need about 2 trial sets (wich I can only farm as a DD or Healer since no group will accept me without the tanking gear). Getting in the Trial-Group as a DD is a big commitment in itself since you need to make time for a sceduled training run, be quick with the application and hit something like 85k+ on the 21 mil dummy to even meet the requirements of most guilds. Wich is just awful considering you have to do it on a role you propably don’t even want to play. And that is just to get starting with tanking. It is mindboggelingly frustrating to even get to the point of learning tanking mechanics that it is just a big turn of for any potential engame Players.
Yeah, I've been in PUGs in a final fight where as the tank I did 8k dps and the other 3 people who were light attack specialists managed 4k dps. Damn ZOS for nerfing light attacks! 😛
(Maybe I shouldn't be so critical of the Oakensoul HA builds and Arcanists)
At least arcs will do big dmg as long as they can flail flail beam
@NotoriousLANK yeah, before patch I was consistently doing 100k DPS with this set up. Might be a braindead build, but it works decently
to your note: It adds a little challenge cause the fights take longer. I don't think that's the case - i as a tank when questing am basically unkillable, i have self-heal, mitigation, whatever. So i just sit there constantly with 100% HP with fights just taking me longer, which is not a challenge if i essentially cannot die. It's more like unnecessary inconvenience.
I think the 1000+ cp players who have lost all enjoyment in the game and just speed run dungeons and dont wait for new players to quest will turn a lot of new players away from pve. In the last week i have had multiple runs where someone missed a boss and ruined the quest just because high cp level players refuse to wait. Everyone likes to complain about fake tanks but a new player wont care or notice there isnt a tabk. They will notice the dick that ran ahead and made them miss out completing the quest.
I get frustrated by this as well and I’m at 2900+cp - at least come to agreement before running ahead.
@@sigonellapc2 for some they just ignore and keep running ahead because they legitimately do not care and only care about completing the dungeon as fast as possible so they can get on with the rest of their dailies. I know it's a very small minority of high cp level players though most are great to play with. The pvp community honestly seems way more chill at least with people in their own faction.
Do you post "quest" in group chat?
Then everybody knows. Otherwise WTF should I spend more time in a dungeon I've done literally 1000s of times?
If you need the quest for your toon TYPE it!! Don't just say it because 99% of the time the audio is off when i play.
@@DS94everXev it literally makes no difference to the type of people I was talking about if you do or not. If you do slow down when someone says quest or you notice then at the quest giver then you are not the problem so thank you
@@KnarBurger Well I've seen people do rage quit and get all mad saying they were doing quest but they never posted it in group chat.
I enjoy tanking. Knowing the mechanics. Guiding the group. Controlling the mobs.
But it's entirely thankless. I try to keep mobs and pull mobs into aoe, apply debuffs.
I supply backup healing, supply buffs, etc.
It's pretty thankless though.
Still, I'd rather do tanking that compete among the damage elitsts.
I started maining a tank and no one ever wants to help me farm gear yet complain there is not enough tanks
When I did play and was grouped with randos or organized group, I would tell them to f off if they tried to tell me what sets I should wear as a tank. "Get your happy arse over here and tank if you want those sets to be run."
No one gets to tell someone how to play
I have to disagree with you about tutorials. In my opinion one of the greatest weaknesses of ESO is that it is bad at teaching people how to play. ZOS puts a lot of responsibility for this in the hands of the community. That means that people who don't seek out external resources and don't happen to stumble into a supportive guild, will most likely not even realize how much better they could be.
A concept I have talked about in different places is to replace the Undaunted introduction quest where you have to enter a dungeon with a visit to an Undaunted training facility, where you can learn about the roles in group PVE and what is expected of them. Maybe place a portal in the enclaves, so players can go back there.
ZOS is trying to appeal to a very casual audience. That means that many new players don't have any prior MMO experience and may have never heard of the holy trinity. If you teach them the basic idea behind every role, they probably not only become better at playing their own role, but also have a better understanding of what the other players in their group are doing. This could improve the conditions for new tanks by a lot, because even new players would have some basic understanding of the role and new tanks would start with a better foundation, so more experienced players would be more accepting of them.
Of course, at some point you will not progress further without external resources, but as it is, many new players probably don't even know what to google for, if they want to get better.
I think you put too much expectations on tutorials actually working. People couldn't even read a tool tip that tells you an arcanist skill is a taunt. If they can't read a tool tip what makes you think they aren't skipping any "boring" dialogue.
@@badger_ninja8681 A tutorial would probably have to do a bit more than dialogue. Players could get temporary skill lines (like in Frostvault or Stone Garden) and do basic tasks for each role. For tanking it could be: You have a taunt and a chain, there is a big dummy and two small ones, taunt the big one, pull the small ones in.
Of course, some people would still go trough it and learn nothing, but certainly not everyone. I encounter a lot of new players in a social guild and there are so many things they are unaware of, but most of them are willing to learn. As a new player, the game floods you with information and you have no idea what is actually important.
@@1Apep1 still ain't going to work. The average player can't even figure out quest boss mechanics. Like red is bad is taught and people still stand in it even interrupts and block/dodge mechanics are ignored. Like they are forced to do it in the intro and some seemingly never do it again.
I felt this to my core sir. Great points about a topic that is often the elephant in the room. The perpetual cycle of new players that are wanting to tank and failing to stick with it because of being frustrated or humiliated helps no one.
As an experienced tank and dps. In the beginning when a dps would complain. Id be like "cool let's switch then since you're a good tank. I thought the dps was low anyway."
🤣 love it
The account wide stuff is weird. The crown store is so expensive for everything. They don't even realize if they made things account wide and reduced the prices MORE people would be buying it because it's cheap players would be less reluctant to make a purchase.
Make tanking MORE convenient. Add AoE taunts, give them better tools for complex trial mechanics and give them better buff sets for tanking. Theres not a single good reason that the most important role in trials is the most difficult and complex
Some of the problems for new tanks is they need to know the mechanics of the boss fights. The best way is to run these dungeons on normal, before going into vet content. The number of times I've had a pug member messages they have never done the dungeon before, playing on vet is crazy to me. I would never do that. Go do the dungeon on normal FIRST, get to know the lay of the land, & how to deal with the bosses. Another issue is Hard Mode, in the base game most just need the group to read a scroll, Which is even too complex for some group member to do. So when they do come to a HM mech that is complex, they fail miserably. The DLC dungeons I find are even worse, I really don't want to have to run to several different areas, just to pull a leaver, so I can activate the HM. Keep it simple, because most group players, can't even read a simple scroll. lol. But seriously, having to spend ten mins trying to activate the HM, can be a pain. Trying to keep a certain amount of enemy adds up, or start with a vast number of enemies first, ignoring an aid to heal or protect the group, can be problematic for many new players. Finally as stated, not having an AOE taunt, is a big issue. After killing the Tormentor armour set, there is really nothing in game that can effectively do this any more. Swarm mothers monster set has a limited effect, but still needs enemies to focus their attacks on the tank. I also agree having more MONSTER damage to enemies could help tanks in PVE do a bit more damage. So having access to Empowered on the Sword & Shield weapon passives, would be a good idea, as it has NO effects in PVP...
I remember when the devs tried to make Shield Bash actually do some real damage. My tank was hitting over 20k with it, & even more when it crit. But that was soon removed, not because of what I, or others were doing in PVE. It was the PVP players base fault, because they exploited it to such an extent in PVP, it was hitting over 40k, & even more when that crit...
Problem is that most normal versions of dungeons are pushovers where you can easily ignore mechanics. I really don't find that the normals do much, if at all, to prepapre me for the veteran version.
I practice tanking on vet dungeons not dlc dungeons but vet dungeons because I can’t learn mechs in normal dungeons because the enemy dies in 2 seconds, nor can I learn the layout because people just sprint through the dungeon
Try soloing the dungeons, or 2 man. You can find another player on the new Group Finder...
@@themibjc69 Good thought but doesn't really make much of a difference.
As a returning player who rolled a tank - its super fun when the group is chill. Ive tanked one trial and two vet dungeons now. Two of those experiences were amazing. The third was ok until the final boss, when one of the players got super nasty to me. I dont really think it was my fault we bricked on that boss, but dude just started shiting all over me.
Made me never want to PUG again for vets.
A core memory I have when trying out tanking was fighting the final boss in Banished Cells 2. Our two DPS were around 200+ CP and neither could do a rotation to save their life (I think one dude was spamming crit rush the whole fight). Because you cant aggro the boss through taunt, I instead taunted every daedroth that spawned and brought them to the corner of the map so they wouldn't be in the way of the other group members. This fight went on for 30 minutes because not only was the boss taking very little damage but the two dps members couldn't stop the orbs in time from healing the boss. Eventually the number of daedroth exceeded around 20 or so and I was unable to keep them all aggroed causing the team to wipe. The dps guys got pissed and blamed me saying it was the tanks fault. Fortunately one of the dps dudes quit out and was replaced by a 1200cp character that knew what they were doing and we beat the boss in around 3 minutes.
Moral of the story, tanking is a thankless job and is first to be blamed when disaster arises.
I know you paon😂I got 7 adds at the same time wAts your record? it was fun and I say the healer just heal the dds 😅it was ossome
I switched to Tank recently.
My POV is I get a lot of anger from groups for not being a good Tank at 2520CP. Issue is I was DPS until 5CP ago and played nothing but DPS until recently.
So the hostility towards Tanks is so bad that no one wants to tank. It's a community attitude issue. I can leave a group, take the queue penalty and be back in a Vet DLC within 5 minutes.
DPS and Healers can requeue for hours for all I care. If you want group content to be vibrant again. Be nice to tanks. That what I've learned
I'm a Templar tank who used Tormentor + Explosive Charge as my main build and they removed it. My motivation to tank now is just dead.
I'm just now finding out about this change. I guess ZoS hates us having fun and being creative with builds.
There is a simple fix.
Have modes for each job, DPS, Healing and Tanking.
DPS = no changes.
Healing = -x% damage and +y% healing.
Tanking = -x% damage and +200% aggro.
Damage of other than DPS may go down, but they get a bonus to their role.
In tanking, AOE damage is like a taunt, in that you are doing 3 times the aggro, but the Tank will still need taunts on the skill bar and to manage taunts, but damage is the AOE taunt, and it is enough damage to matter and be fun.
Well presented video. Very well thought through. I'm 10yrs in w/2 full tanks. Initially spec'd as tank. Levelled them as dps. Converted after finishing all bar skills and morphs. Highly recommended for new folks (not ALL skills, cause that's nuts) 😊
After watching this video: I won't try tanking in this game.
My first character was a tank. I don't remember a lot from when I first started, the endless misery that is tanking as noob will never be forgotten though.
End game tanks are hiding in their guilds. They don’t care about noobs lol
this is probably the truest statement in this entire comment section... why would i play with all these randoms that do ZERO damage?
@@randolphsantos9690 😂 My guild is nice tho. they have the vets who stick together, and the ones who train the peewees
@@randolphsantos9690 Crazy how you can join an endgame veteran activity and have people spamming light attacks for 1-3k damage a hit, like WTF...
CP 3000 and just started tanking and enjoying it. I will say it’s annoying when DPS runs ahead and doesn’t wait for me stack the ads. Also love zero waiting time for anything. Just started learning trial content and it’s difficult as people have zero patience and assume a level 3000 tank is an expert.
It makes me so mad too if they run ahead I just let them tank it. If they die they should learn to wait!
I’m a tank… running turning tide/powerful assault…
fairly new to eso, like 1 month in…
The eso community is not friendly 😂😂😂
Give me a chance to learn the mechanics BRO! Or try to help damn
all these "veterans" of the game that this guy is talking about are the ones screaming racial slurs at you for not being a perfect tank.
@@AmazedBunion it's rare to ever see that this community is way less toxic than wow etc.
Hello my Tank-Brother. I recommend you one thing....PLAY WHAT YOU LIKE!
It makes the game a lot more fun. And thats the goal, having fun in the game. I Personally love frozen guardian set from Malatar and bloodspawn monster set as well as leeching plate. U can make anything work.
Never stop messing around with sets. It is the most fun way to be a tank.
Have a nice evening shield brother.
Make 1 fun tank DPS build for random normal stuff and questing and make a build if you have to tank for hard content for people you know that deserves to be there and not just looking for a carry. I have 5 different class tanks all sporting unique DPS tank builds which are fun and able to solo just about any world boss and solo any normal dungeon run, but I know enough that if I need to run trials or vet hard mode runs I need to run a different set so it's easy as hell enough to do. Join a guild you can have 5 different guilds, 500 per guild total 2495 potential semi vetted team mates for hard content.
Trial tanks can solo dungeons and world bosses too. It is bot about being able to, it is about time it takes.
@@eget4144 seriously???? 😒 You talk about trials and you don't know how to make a fun DPS tank build? Seriously? So a DPS kills it 30 secs faster .... That's an issue? 😂
Most frustrating part for me as a (main) tank is when the group comes close to my DPS range or even below my max DPS.
This is facts XD I was just in a vDSA that I thought I'd help some people out with, and I have personally never seen the bosses get enraged in vDSA and I have been playing since 2015, and then, the healer blamed me and said they have gotten clears with lower dps. I have always loved tanking, but I have been playing mostly dps because tanking stuff is either impossible to clear if I go in as the tank, or they dont want me as tank because I havent tanked the content before.. which I do not understand, if I can't tank something because I havent tanked it before that means I just will never tank that content lol.
3:15 What you said is actually right. I am a new player who started playing 8 months ago. I got into tanking but let me tell you it is the most stress roll ever but if you make one mistake people just get so mad.
I think that’s the problem.. the majority of the player base is just DPS. I play every role I’m not a one trick pony we just need more people to play the other roles.. it not hard. And the type of people that say the other roles aren’t fun are just silly because they’re only saying that because they can’t damage on a tank or a healer.. like people don’t know how roles work just play the game! Makes me sad because 95% of the community are just cookie cutter builds we need to address that. Because when people just copy builds their not learning how to play.. it fucks shit up.. and we in a deep hole now I say rest everyone and let’s just start from the beginning…
Good video. Just got back into this game after a year break. Been queing as healer w/ SPC/PA in random norm and vet dailies for the transmutes. Though I have enjoyed PA in pvp, I want to get better at pve and this video made me realize I could be putting that ice staff to better use! Especially if a lot of tanks are already using this set then it means I'm not helping the group much. I'm gonna set up a tank tomorrow and start practicing, thanks for the motivation!
1. Tanking is complicated. Most people think you just stand there and hold block. Literally. I've had people say that that's all I do.
2. Tanks get no credit. After the completion of any group content, the deeps rant and rave about how hard they hit. Tanks and healers get no credit for actually making the completion possible for the parse monkeys.
3. Tanking requires intelligence. It's not just doing a rotation, it's dynamic and you have juggle responsibilities. Multitasking is kryptonite to lazy gamers. There aren't many endgame Tanks because not many wannabe Tanks can handle the pressure of endgame. They die or the let others die, and then they quit. Ask them... they will tell you straight up they're terrified to do hard stuff.
As a tank main, we're tired of the player bases's bullshit. Even if we are a mechanics expert there's always that one fucking dps who wants to be a shit head and not fuckin listen, who wants to make the entire experience unbearable because they refuse to listen. I make it a point to bully those players into leaving because my time is valuable to me, their inability to listen to a fucking thing. isn't. worth. shit. If you're the more saturated role in the fucking game that take maybe a minute to replace, you don't get to talk shit to me about being a "horrible tank" because you can't sidestep a red zone or because I pulled 20 adds and locked them down and you're mad about me missing the 21st add. I have a healer, and dps just so i don't get stuck having to deal with this 100% of the time. Also I 100% agree, with the 8:30 mark, coming to the realization that as a tank, my only real role was to be a cc and buff/debuff bot was really disheartening to me, and then having people call me a selfish tank for running Leeching or get mad at me for running leeching or mouth off to me about how i'm not a "real tank" because I'm not 100% using just utility sets? Like I'm running Pearlecent, Leeching, Magma Incarnate and void bash on a Nord DK, and that's not enough for you to be good at your job? Like I'm increasing your damage by 395 and giving you 3k resist and passively helping with damage and survivability. Why aren't you good enough at your job for that to be enough?
I can't believe there are people that queue into veteran and spam light attacks for 1-3k damage, it's insane how bad people are at ESO.
@@IseltheOverseer I will never forget the first time I had a group struggling because of a DPS, and he blamed me for not being better only for it to turn out that he could only hit 9k dps and I had to explain to him that your average tank or healer can hit 10k dps just by using a couple of different skills. They got pissed and blamed the fact they have a job so they can't be bothered.
True, I agree that a strong first step would be to improve the tank experience. However, I don’t think I fully agree on it being the community’s job to teach fundamental game mechanics. I tank almost every day I play but I am exclusively tanking for friends these days. Your average eso DPS player is *very bad* at the video game. It’s not meant as a personal insult, just an observation after thousands of hours in the game. I primarily blame ZOS but acknowledge the players do bear their share of the responsibility. I feel ZOS is at fault because they have pursued a playerbase who “main” the crown store and hasn’t educated them on the basic mechanics of the game at all. The tutorial is beyond elementary, and I think there are worthy group members out there who simply don’t know what the hell is going on haha. A lot of people say ESO is boring, but I think a major reason for that is that the tutorial has you light attacking the whole time and casting like one skill over and over. Get people involved in the combat mechanics early, let them have fun! However, I know it’s not just an education issue. I have also met a lot of players who think queuing for a dungeon means they are entitled to a clear. That’s not really much of a problem in and of itself for me, but it becomes a problem when they just mindlessly heavy attack without casting skills and ignore fight mechanics. I know we say this game has a great community, but honestly the most toxic people I’ve met are #esofam players who think you work for ZOS by tanking and that they’re paying your salary with their crown purchases or something lol. Never mind seeing that as a tank issue, I’m simply not going to play with someone who doesn’t respect other people. This is why I only do vet tanking with friends and guild mates now. Which, mind you, is a privilege as I actually *have* that network built up already. A new tank is out in the cold all alone which brings us back to needing to improve things on a game design level.
I can get behind all of this 100%
Getting my friend into tanking was a horrible experience for them - healers would constantly harass them for not being perfect. The armory thing also sucks; there's 3 roles, we should start with 3 armory slots!!!
When I first started playing this game, I initially had no interest in tanking. I just wanted to do damage and get my levels up. It didn’t take long for me to get board want to actually learn proper mechs and feel more of use to the player base as a whole. Made a new toon, DK, got some tanking sets and started my journey. Mind you it quickly became an addiction (I have 18 toons, 11 of which are tanks). And I’m still learning things daily. It’s not easy as most of the base expects you to automatically know every mechanic or buff/debuff everything. But they’re are those pug groups that will have that experienced player in it that will notice I’m not fully educated on the mechanics of a dungeon and take the time to talk me through it, give me some advice on certain sets, occasionally get an invite to help farm some sets.
My point is, and it could be a little off topic I’m aware, they’re are people out there that are willing to help. And it makes tanking in this game rewarding. It’s a fucking slog sometimes. But learning the content, building your tank and trying to help other players is what keeps me tanking.
The nerf to the Tormentor set is a barometer of how ZOS thinks about tanks - make life harder for them!
To be honest, if you are a good tank you don't need tormentor. Makes things easier for newer players, but it is not good in endgame content. Before the last update I recommended the set for players who don't know a lot about tanking and just want to do random normal or pledges. For "harder" content it is a waste.
The lack of a basic threat system makes it really boring to play, I don't want to spend the first minute of a fight running around taunting everything one at a time, or having to make going after and taunting an add my top priority. I don't necessarily need an aoe taunt, but just some passive aggro generation from aoes and cleaves like tanks in basically any other MMO gets just to pick up adds easily would be nice.
In general tanks are less common in MMOs simply due to the pressure, in most MMOs a DPS can die and the only consequence is a slightly longer fight, but if the tank dies it's basically a guaranteed wipe, so anyone not confident that they'll never mess up a mechanic can't tank without feeling like a burden.
The solo aspect is definitely a problem, I can use the same buildi use for group content for solo content as a DPS, but not as a tank. The only character I've really enjoyed tanking on so far is my arcanist, and a part of the reason why is that I can easily set it up for solo overland just by slapping fatecarver on my bars. Doesn't do as much as an actual dps build, but at least I can kill a story boss in less than 3 minutes.
I tried switching to tank as its what Ive always played in MMOs. I got trashed talked by a few groups for not "knowing" everything even after telling them I was new to tanking. I havent logged into that toon for over two years.
Yea MMO players can be shitty, but ESO’s community is still the best I’ve been a part of out of every MMO I’ve played. Always gunna have bad apples, but hopefully that didn’t push you away! Keep going! :)
@@Cooperharley0204 I love ESO and the community. I just do my own thing now and avoid the Veteran stuff until I get "smart".
I have a tank in every class. Done a lot of end game content. I still use it for farming, but I’ve got so burnt on PvE I basically PvP only anymore.
Nice takes. I am a new player in ESO and I can see the lack of tanks is noticable in the community. Monetization is also running on the greed edge.
May be tank changes are NECESSARY to make them more appealing? :D Maybe (wink-wink Dev team, if you are reading)
They need regular dungeons that teach mechanics, not bosses that hot harder but something like boss gets healed for every missed mechanic and start with more health. The normal dungeons as they are teach nothing, you cant even learn them the way they are.
it would be really cool, if Zos found away to have a tank trainer ( similar to the trial dummy) where it would run you through mechs of bosses or something, I dont know exactly how it would work but it would be awesome.
You can build tanks that do good damage. All my tanks do over 20k dps on the 6 million dummy. This works fine in the vet DLC dungeons or normal trials. In vet trials you typically have to wear what the group/raid lead demands to optimize the buffs/debuffs. If you don't do vet trials there's no reason you can't do good damage as well as tank properly. It's harder to play in vet DLC dungeons with pugs, but it's part of getting good at the game. I recommend go full tank first and learn to stay alive, then add damage skills/traits/sets as you get more sure of your abilities. When you choose sets, pick those that boosts both your damage and that of the group, that way you fill your support role as well as boost your own dps.
As an end-game tank with 7 years playing I can honestly say rudeness is the number reason I stopped tanking for people. I've become a "selfish tank" over the years as a matter of necessity. People in general demand too much from tanks to make it enjoyable. With the release of NECRON I finally switched to DPS because I've finally had too much.
God I hate that term, selfish tank. I can understand going selfless with Guildies where you have a rapport and know each others tendencies but with randoms, which is the most common type of group? Hell no.
I've got an unkillable necro tank for most random vet dungeons regards of DPS. It is 100% carry any group with reanimate and I used to love doing random vet dailies to help people. Maybe again one day @@-_-DatDude
2 months ago I started tanking on a CP200+ character, but I was afraid people would judge me, because I was new and didn't know all the mechanics. Luckily I found a guild who help me with vet dungeons (especially the DLC ones) so I can learn the mechanics.
Once I did vet pledges with randoms and after that a rvd with my guild. we got the same dungeon as for one of the pledges, but it was so slow, because the dps was not so good. It felt horrible. I did not get yelled at so far, but I didn't do end-game stuff yet, so that's probably why. one person just asked me why I was still using the Ebony Set. I just answered, that I like the red bubbles and that if I did not use it during that run, I would have died, because they rushed the dungeon and I got stuck with 40 enemies around me.....
very balanced input and I hope ZOS implements even half of what you have suggested
my priority list would be
1. making tank fun in the general game
2. making armory account wide
3. making gets sets/skills for tanks/healers way easier/less time consuming
maybe if being a tank didnt mean you had to get like 5 sets and use only those takeing all build veriety away just because 1 dps thinks they are too important to give up 1 of they sets to bring a group buff to the team rather then it being the tanks job to respec just so they can do they job...as well as nerfing themselves and takeing all the build craft out of the game. maybe then tanking would be more popular. i myself very much enjoy tanking until im REQUIRED to throw my build out the window because the dps cant deside to bring a set that would be actualy useful to them besides the buff the 5 piece gives. takes all the buiild craft out of the game and i feel like thats a problem that prevents tanking from being more popular it sure curbs my fun playing the game on a tank.
Been playing this game for a month and I'm lovin it. Upon watching this video, Ig choosing the tank role was the right decision I made and in hopes i could atleast do the community a teeney weeney favor lol
They have made tanking in ESO simply not fun. There is no surprise here that there is a shortage of tanks.
I don’t care about damage as a tank, I just want to stack all the trash mobs with something like vat sword and board and aoe taunt, so the dps can do their job. When I dps and have a tank that doesn’t stack or aoe taunt it gets so tedious to kill trash mobs. That’s my only gripe.
Aoe taunt?? that's gone now with the gutting of Tormentor
Yeah exactly, I wouldn’t have recommended that set for anything above vet base game pledge runs, but it made those runs smooth for everyone. So I believe having an aoe taunt outside of a 5 piece set bonus would be the thing that both makes tanks want to run random vet dlc dungeons and would help dps clear trash easier. Soft taunts are fine with an experienced group.
Thats why yoz can easily bring a chain like silver leash without dps loss on a DD ^^
I normally chain in all adds the tank didnt get with Vat SnB
The tank can focus on the big adds and not worry about trash
As DK you have the additional bonus that you can taunt with chains and keep trash off of newer or weaker players ;)
You and others have said it, and it has been my experience as well being one who started a main as a healer. Nothing is more frustrating in the game than bad DPS. I don't think that many expect them to be a meta top tier DPS, it's just actually shocking how bad/low they can get. Practically useless sometimes. Sometimes literally worse than a companion. I have had to port out of runs where I was running a support role to swap over to DPS to just finish a run. End game tanks or healers? Yeah, they ain't got not time for that and won't even mess with pugs.
I can massively simplify this. The reason people dont tank is because its alot of responisibilty that people dont want.
I have an end game tank character with all of the sets (not perfected) and skills. I've tanked all the normal trials, all the dungeons and DLC dungeons on vet.
My trials guild insists I have a certain number of vet hard mode clears BEFORE I can join any progression groups to vet trials. So I'm stuck. I'm ready and think I can get through vet trials, but I don't get the chance. All pugs and group finders require a vet clear to participate, and that would be a rough intro to a vet trial. I am content to do vet without hard mode, though I have a bunch of vet hard mode DLC dungeon clears. I have been working 1.5 years to qualify for their criteria to tank vet trials.
I'm the player you're describing here. I made a tank with tormentors because it was fun.... well that's gone so I made a DK cookie-cutter tank to try to learn about tanking and it was mind-numbingly boring. I have absolutely zero interest in tanking now and i'm definitely not going to run around spending hours doing overland content on my tank when i can just blaze right through it with a DPS.
Played ESO since console beta. I dont play ESO as much now but when I do, I exclusively play my tank build in dungeons due to que times(one character account but 8 builds). I found tanking on ESO to be miserable for the 2 following reasons:
1. You're expected to intrinsically know every mechanic in every dungeon or trial regardless of how new it is. Its a standard other roles aren't really held too.
2. The community. My pet peeve when I tanked in ESO was DPS running ahead of me and aggro'ing stuff like they are trying to speed run in PUGs instead of guilds. Respect my authoritah!
Oh and theres also the fact that people are either rude on EU or theres a language barrier.
I've been a tank main for more than a year now just from the sheer fact of bad tanks in vet content to be honest. I was explaining mechanics and I was a dps main and the tank continuously did not execute the mechanics and ended up just rage quitting.
I truly love tanking in ESO due to the fact how much in demand they are both in trials and in every queue. I ended up finishing so much more achievements, collected more dyes, more gear due to tanking. My tank is my gear grinder while now I mainly PvP atm. I do agree people with bad DPS LA and HA or using Oakenclutch/puncturing sweeps and still dying got really annoying.
Regarding the "giving tanks some damage" call, that would make PVP broken beyond repair.
I'll say for me personally that I loved taanking with a group that was growing and working on doing harder and harder content. Then drama busted up the group, so we had trouble filling a full roster from that small guild. I couldn't get a co-tank for trials and no one else wanted to tank. It's been nearly 3 months since I started looking for another endgame group and the best I've been able to play as is dps or support dps. Endgame groups prefer to go with their known tanks, leaving little opportunities for us other tanks to try the harder content. Now I seem to be EC Cro jailed because no dps wants to do such low numbers in a group. 😢
@Cooperharley great job! We'll said.
Thats why I adapt my builds to the content. Shouldn't be trying to bring meta setups from group content to solo gameplay. It has its own metas. Love my tanks, but also could go for some changes.
My solution is tanking in PUG groups on a frost warden with a taunt and double ice staves to still do as much damage as I can. Works well for most vet group dungeons in the game.
I stopped tanking as much bc I got tired of ppl running in front of me and pulling (vet dungeons).
I had to make a dps build for my tank for doing random questing because I hated life actually doing it as a tank.
I use to normal and vet tank all the time, and was really good at it. But recently other classes in the game have started taking over the tanks role and then yelling about how inefectual of a player they are when everyone keeps dying.
I havent played in three months because of not being able to find a group willing to cooperate long enough to learn mechanics and each others strengths and weaknesses. Yet I keep hearing about how helpful the community is.
From my standpoint, players have become pure toxic and dont learn their roles.
Hats off to op. Your not wrong. But, I feel as though that game is on the downswing.
your message is great... be nice to new tanks
I've not watched all of this yet, but i can already agree with most of it.
I started playing as dps. But in my guild, we had the need for a tank - so, for us to be able to do content, i leveled a redguard dragonknight (boo hiss, i hear - for the naysayers, get knotted, i make it work) to tank with. I actually love tanking - with people i know.
I refuse to pug as tank, The couple of time i tried, i was left behind to kill everything whilst the others zerged past everything to the final boss. That said, i have stepped into a dungeon for another guild who put the call out for a tank due to the group losing two others leaving......i found out in very short order that they were trying to burn stuff that just shouldn't be burned and they kept wiping. So then i played mentor and we got thru (after several wipes for not listening).
I also refuse to pug as healer (my least favourite role, but i'll do it if asked) for the same reason i won't pug-tank.....a healer cannot be left behind with a squillion adds and a minor boss - i'm sorry, a real healer just can't.
I don't use the armoury - it is expensive to add slots, AND it is way too easy to overwrite a build and lose everything.
SETS - OMG.....!!! I refuse to join any craglorn group or other guild trial runs because i don't have everything they specify! Even guilds with discords who spruke that they are all about players learning how to do stuff are putting requirements on players. Evedrything from sets to skills and cp placement.
I do not run tormentor, i think i did when my tank was a 'baby', but that wasn't for long. I have i think pearlescent and powerful assault on her currently, with sword and board from dragonstar arena - BUT i can manage most things when i have support and encouragement from the group.....being the only tank in normal cloudrest isn't fun.
I'll never own perfected gear, and i'll never get the other sets completed to use - why? - because my guild is all but dead, and we haven't had enough players to fill a trial in over a year. I have 2 or 3 vet trials under my belt only.
Warhorn - whilst i have it - it's effing expensive to trigger! it costs twice as much as my shield ulti.....i don't use it....is that bad - probably - do i know 'when' to cast it? no. What's more confusing is some groups (from what i heard) tell you not to use it, others demand that you do - well sorry, if i need to shield to keep alive and aggro, you better believe i'm doing that.
FInal note - i tried to make a comment on that thread - but it won't let me - even after i logged into my account and searched the thread manually - it wanted a log in - which it said was invalid!!
I'm not sure why so many people saw Tormentor as being a sub-par tank set. The proc gave you a huge un-named buff to your resists, as well as AOE taunting (if the right skills proc-ed it). This idea that tanks in ESO exist to fluff the DPS is offensive on so many levels. "Hold agro and don't die."
I wanted to play tank but apparently being a 2h tank was a massive problem so I stopped, then there was the speeding through dungeons so I couldn’t get the lore which made me not care about what I was doing which made me in turn not care as much about the rest of the game. I still play now and then but I more or less act as though dungeons and trials just arent in the game.
Too true about the 3 dps groups, I had my healer change to a half setup for my dungeon HM prog group its just been easier. Although I have to say they still blame for when they have died for not paying attention.
have to say I main an Arc tank its been a whole lot of fun to play I actually enjoy it but sadly end game players do NOT want an arc tank or it has been requested that I do 50k damage as one lol.
Speaking as a babytank just learning to walk. I stay far away from PUGs as possible. That being said. Shout out to my awesome guild for being super encouraging and nice to me. I'm very tankful. :3 Gameplay wise ZOS could make some improvements, Unlockable armory slots via gameplay, cool tank sets. special achievements when you play support roles in vet dungeons or somthing like that.. Or just a freaking ingame tutorial for those just starting out.
I used to tank when I do PVE content, but too many ppl bitching about not knowing everything in every dungeon... I'll just run solo on a high DPS build. Those elitist crybabies can just sit in their shitty queues.
Problem is that pvp and pve are not separated correctly. If you buff tanks pvp would be screwed. I’m also a tank main and yea it sucks because most people’s dps sucks ass and I just have to deal with it, nothing I can do.
There’s plenty of sets that they could introduce that only affect “monsters” like other sets that are present though
They could also just implement a simple toggle “pve” or “pvp” (like “normal” and “veteran” are used for group finder) that you would switch between, depending on content, that could buff/debuff skills
@@Daddio_McFattio or you know they could 100% separate them as they in no way play the same and are effectively 2 separate games.
The thing I find hilarious as a tank during the final boss at vet tempest Island is that i'm the last to die during a wipe😂
I use my second armory slot for a tank mostly to queue quick in daily randoms but also tanking is fun until you get low dps and the dungeon lasts forever
They need to add crushing blows or something so the fake problem dies out
I just came back a month ago after not playing for over 2 years. I wonder if this is an issue on PS5. I made my dragonknight for tanking and found it hard to quest with, and I went with a solo stamina build. If there is an issue, I can start crafting up a tank set and level my skills.
There's a lot of good, newbie-friendly tank sets available in the game. Basic Sets like Leeching Plate, Crimson Twilight, Ebon Armory, Brands of Imperiun (to name a few) can make newbies & casuals tanky enough while their learning.
One problen that I see is some groups being impatient enough to see newbies & casuals join harder content (vet dgs and trials) wearing an off-meta tank set and kicks them off right away. This makes a lot of newbie tanks switch from tank to dd or worst, just quit the game entirely.
I do understand the need & practicality of wearing meta sets in harder content. Just saying that getting kicked because of wearing a basic, off-meta tank set can be a big turn off for new & casual players. Especially tank players.
I think in a way that you feed into that a little bit, and you expose the greater problem. When you said that you would rather run with 1 tank and 3 dps. Where are healers supposed to learn? Healers need to learn the mechs too, and hopefully the have most of them down before they step into vet. That leads to the base issue though. ZOS made damage king. Hardly anything else matters. Almost all mechs can be bypassed by more damage. And when they do try and balance things out you wind up with something like vDSR where all it takes is a missed block by the OT and its a group wipe.
And this comes from someone who plays all 3 roles well.
100% but at the end of the day normal is so easy that supports aren’t needed and that’s a large part of the problem. Most people that have been playing the game a while know that and that’s unfortunate.
So when people get to veteran there’s mechanics they’ve never seen before. There’s just a huge learning curve and it’s hard to get there. Something that ZOS definitely needs to be looking at and that I haven’t seen any acknowledgement of
It doesnt help that its also pushed on us by the community that only DK or Necro can tank. Zos could scale damage to monsters based on armor value or max health, that would allow tanks to do damage without having to change too much.
i agree that zos need to make new stuff so its fun to tbe a tank in other areas of the game. got 4 tanks and they never get used outside of dungeons and trials and they are theme builds/fun build
I’ve been a tank since I started and didn’t even know the taunt abilities or uses. I actually never played an mmo at all. It made it worse at low levels, I didn’t know much about armor sets, or champion points. Let me tell you, I’ve been blamed for everything going wrong and kicked from groups. It’s a horrible feeling being constantly being told how bad I was. But every once in a while, I would get players who would tell me and help me during dungeons. Along with a little bit of research, I was able to get better. Still not the greatest at it getting the basic concepts now helps a lot. So now I just get shitted on sometimes. 😂
ZOS is gonna sell you the aoe taunt at a point. Im guessing the scribring system is gonna let you modify skills to make them aoe, including a taunt. Thats why the random nerf to tormentor. They always do this.
Thats why the mid - endgame is problematic, cause new players gives them proportionally more money, new character slots, crates (they dont have 20+ mounts yet), dlcs bought, costumes, personalities etc, you only buy those things once, or for crates, like twice, cause you already have something that comes from them
You don't have to guess, it's been a visible option in the previews they've shown of the scribing already.
@@Deinareia yeah but idk about the skill that is gonna apply to... like is the new modifiable skill for the 1h/shield a taunt? For what ive understood, its gonna be 1 new skill to each weapon which we gonna be able to modify, but yeah its very likely
@@ItzGenesis If I recall correctly, they were showing a new bow skill - it was an aoe. They showed aoe heal applied to it, but the list of available effects did also have a taunt.
I think the amount of fake tanks also makes it so late game they cant just que up anymore. The Other tanks can not learn the mechanics when they were easy but the crazy dps just blast past the bosses.
I cant agree on this completly
Yes tgere are alot of fake tanks, but also fake DDs are nothing to sneeze at.
I regularly queue as fanke tank (I always bring taunt, cause nothing gives less dps then a boss running wild)
I neraly always get a queueproc within 30s, and if not then its mostly missing healers or DDs :/
Maybe this is different on other platforms or regions but Euw its not really an issue for tanks 😅
@DJxYoungz But the main issue is that people aren't allowed to learn the correct role, dps should be able to learn the role at the same time as the tank. Using your example the dps are not good and aren't being shown why. Not everyone is good at the role they are playing. And yes there are millions of resources online but that doesn't change they fact that low dps exists and that in some cases low heals and bad tanks are also not learning. When a super high dps just runs through a dungeon how should the others learn? A fank isn't allowing anyone to do there role/part
@@theterrorvortex6415
I think thats more of a groupfinder / reward issue.
But changing the groupfinder will open a can of worma nobody wants.
They could lower the rewards for rnd normal then there would be more incentive to rnd vet for those who want to do that.
Speedrunners could get a separate queue (>lvl50) with lower rewards but be able to do them more than once per day -> ending on a equal rewards like rnd vet.
This queue could have no role requierments and be completly random.
But doing something like this will delude the normal queuepool way to much and no groups will be filled.
Its kind of a lose-lose situation at the current stage of the game.
This could maybe be fixed by buffing tank dmg for PvE specifically. So they dont have to carry the fights in full survival setup with like 8k dps while grouped with fake DD or heal.
@@DJxYoungz See I can agree with the smaller changes you listed however I would like to see them do something like other mmos do and instead of pushing everyone up to a high level of power (I.e maxing there dungon stats) They can lower everyone to a certain point. Like grotto can be level 10 and white gold tower can be 50 and just power scale everyone so, hey super high level dps boss slapped you for all your health.
it's just so frustrating that groups keep asking me achievements clear, i have collected tank gears from essentials to situationals but it's so hard to get a proper group
I'd like to be able to get more transmutes for stuff
Having access to more transmutes, or at least more affordable transmutes would make things easier to get started. there's no reason why if I already have the part available to transmute that it should cost me 50 crystals but 25 if I collect all the pieces for the set in my book.
I see and hear a lot of responses talking about the problem being the community's opinion and the lack of damage. I dont MS tank, i MS heal but i wouldn't mind having some tank character's sitting around. But i have to ask-
Does anyone think the issue is the quest/daily system and material requirements? A lot of people just want to do their 3+1 (3 pledges and 1 random) and move on. Maybe if ZOS lowered the transmutation stones and key requirements, prioritized pledges through random que, or something that will just make people slow down, there wouldn't be such a rush to blitz through everything.
I think making monster's hit harder to people who don't have the "tank" role will put some love on tanks too. I stick with the tank in content as a healer but its not uncommon to see DDs blitz ahead and start fighting things without the tank.
i started tanking ( basic gear so far TT/Peralescent/crimson/ spaulder/archdruid/sax- dont have mats for the rest) but learning without fucking ppl and getting yelled at is oof. Did some vet dungeons so far since i know em well from Dding and getting achievs there but learning trials is big hurdle for me to wanna do
I have a tank build for all my characters just for the instant queue time alone
Am new to tanking but I will always wait and explain or let newbies do their quests. I also let people know if the content is new to me and feel free to swap me out. Personally? I rather stay in a dungeon after completion until every bag, box, container is searched. lol.
I feel the same, i played a tank in dcuo and it was a blast, till the game got very boring. Esos tanking is very monoton, not a lot of variation, especially wenn they nerfed Mistform. It was so much fun with Mistform but now i'm working on a tank that i like and enjoy to play. I couldn't care less of other players wanting me to play a specific way. Its my character not theirs, so they should keep out of my gameplay, or do it they're selves. The prioritys are only to keep the group safe and lower resistances, that's it. The rest is up to you what you like to do. No wunder there is a shortage of tanks, nobody wants to get told how to play their character, they want to enjoy the game in their off-time.