If you are doing a non dlc vet you can have a setup with like 30k hp and you are straight up a dps with a taunt and some sort of self heal, but for dlc vet dungeons you have to actually tank. But support overall is only fun when the people you are supporting know what they are doing. The same for healing
This. All the damage boosting sets in the world dont mean jack if the vast majority of dps in this game cant even pull 25k. I know, I tank allot. It sucks.
@@Supadrumma44125k per DPS would need heavenly... Oftentimes I see on my CMX that my 9-10k DPS on my tank is doing about 50% of the DMG with a total group DPS of 20k or so. It's incredibly painful to go through a vet dlc dung like that and if you hit a DPS check, you somehow take the blame for not finishing.
OMG so spot on.I primarily tanked from day 1. Loved the role and responsibility. Call me a control freak but was so fun to first time thru hard mode vet dlc dungeons. My message board for requests to help a group out of a jam was always full. Unfortunately, the constant grind for new sets along with terrible players made it not so fun anymore.. Miss those times.
I use a nord dk with oakensoul, spell power cure, and powerful assault, trainee heavy chest, and its been the only way I could take a pve tank into overland and pvp etc. just because essentially you give everyone over 700 weapon and spell dmg including yourself.
My 2nd character for ESO was a Tank, leveled as a Tank... but is now my main PvP character for Cyrodiil. I've tried Tanking a few times, with different classes. The one I had the most fun with was my Necro Tank... now my main I.C. PvP character. After Tanking both Vet DLC Dungeons and Trials, I had people telling me my setup sucked and I wouldn't be able to Tank Vet content. Same with my Necro Healer. So now I don't DO Tanking, because for the most part other players made my funist Tank not fun. Same with my Necro Healer, I only bring him out for Guildmates that I can voice chat with ( PC on Discord) so that I can explain how he works. It's simply easier on my nerves to DPS for PUGs. IMO, the biggest problem with people not Tanking is other players. IDK how many times I've seen 'You don't need a Tank or Healer' for..... While that may be true, how do you get experience if no one is willing to let you learn? You'd think in Normal Dungeons, right? But no.. cause 'you don't need' a Tank or Healer in Normal Dungeons and non-DLC vet Dungeons. So when Baby Tank with almost no experience goes into DLC vet Dungeon and doesn't know their job, everyone whines and tells them they should have learned the roll before doing DLC vet Dungeons. To get the job you need experience, But to get experience you need the job.
Random dungeons are incentivized as a great way to get xp and your keys so people want to do them fast. If tanks had AOE taunts and didn’t have lower movement speed for no reason it wouldn’t be such an issue. Dps just want to do the dungeon fast and get their reward so they can move on to content they actually want to do. If ZOS just made tanks more mobile it wouldn’t be such an issue to do big pulls.
I hate when this happens. It might be server lag or something, but hitting a boss with a taunt and them continuing on to smack a DPS is quite irritating.
Biggest issue with tanking is that for normal content, its basically irrelevant, and in vet its pretty much a "boost dps as much as possible and never stop holding block" Basically, its boring as hell, especially with the fact that allot of pug groups, not to be elitist, just suck. Most dps can barely pull 25k dps in my experience, so all the dps boosting sets in the game really dont mean jack if your party is atrocious. The lack of aoe taunt is an annoyance but not the end of the world, I straight up REFUSE to chase after mobs taunting every single mob. One of my favourite trash clearing sets for me right now is dark convergence, mainly because it groups big packs up and stuns so I don't have to run around like a headless chicken spamming pierce armour. When it comes to running daily normals for transmutes, most of my tanks are basically dps in heavy armour these days. 1, its more fun and 2, I can compensate for garbage pug groups. I have my single nightblade and my dk tanks that are "proper" tanks for vet content.
Ugh, I used to love slotting DC bb on my main necro healer and carry the team with the grave synergy thru all the mob packs... Modern cooldown time and huge nerfs to the class and harmony trait makes it almost useless . :(
@@Supadrumma441maybe i'm late to this conversation, but imagine they just nerfing on PTS the Tormentor set, telling some bs like "like everything in the world thing needs come to an end". Why? Cause it's ZOS :D
@@Supadrumma441 The problem is they made fun PvE sets that were blatantly broken in pvp to an absurd degree and they refuse to balance the two seperately
I would say the theme of this podcast, specifically the part about crawling really slowly in a dungeon, is accurate. I have been doing vet dungeons with random groups. I finally got a guild of good people and the speed at which we can move through is amazing.
My 2nd char at Lvl 50 is a Arcanist Tank (the other 2 are DDs: Vamp Necro and Stamplar). I was very unsure about tanking, because of what I heard prior (mainly the elitist players), but after I found a guild I grew more confident. I am at CP450ish now and still hesitate to just queue for vet pledges or rvds, because I am afraid to get a dungeon I don't know and then make mistakes. The blame of me dying in Frostvault (as DD) 6 times in one go still goes deep. It's getting better though. BTW, I definitely noticed the bad DPS more than once during pug dungeons. Especially since I only have a few DLC dungeons in my list. The amount of times I end up in Spindleclutch or Fungal Grotto with Lvl20s is huge.
Hi hi, Just getting back into the game after being away for a few years. I typically like Tanks and Pet Classes in MMO's, so I am planning on rolling a Necro. Either magica or tank, undecided yet. (still catching up on stuffs) But IIRC, my main complaint about tanking when I was playing a DK, is that solo play felt lackluster. It was slow and ponderous at times, and outside very specific fights, tanks weren't really needed. So it felt like I was hobbling my own play which is mostly solo, for the occasional fun job to do. As far as ESO itself? Well, I did tire of the "gogogogo" play from random groups. I know that's kind of the deal with randoms, and I don't mind people pulling, but what I do mind is if they get themselves stomped and then blame me for it which I seemed to remember happening frequently. I haven't given up on tanking, as I really love it, but I am more or less re-learning everything all over again.
The real reason is that people are trash and all think the same way. Drones. Sheep.....The narcissism is off the charts. EVERYONE wants to do damage and that's it. Been playing since beta and it's ALWAYS been this way. My guild has a saying: In ESO, there's 45,000 deeps, and theres only 19 tanks, and we have 8 of them....
He makes a lot of good points. In normal it's basically everyone from himself, no one follws any kind group role rule. Healers trying to be first in etc. The penalties are low in normal so it can teach bad habits. In vet dungeons i found people mostly are not setup for grp content but still solo so many of the skills the benefit a grp a missing because they still have no understanding of group build vs solo build. The last thing that makes people not want to tank is the numbers people, whose concern is stats over dmg in the grp or why isnt the healer doing more dps, or tanks that brag they are highest dps in grp but never taunted anything and everyone was struggling to stay alive. ESO was a shock when i started playing yrs ago compared to other games and it really showed no one cared about performing their role.
I tried to start to learn tanking however every one in dungeons are toxic! criticizing you while you’re trying to learn, making it completely miserable to try and learn. If people are upset that there are not more tanks maybe they should stop criticizing people who are trying to learn tanking this makes all new potential tanks give up on tanking before they actually learn anything.
I started tanking, because of that eso picture… with a Tank leading, a healer elf and a nightblade(s) following the tank. So I, could lead the way through the vet dungeons or more stuff I wanted. And not depend on another random tank… also farm certain dungeons basically. It’s great tanking, Im making a healer next.
The main reason I run tanks is the q' time: I get angry when tank q' procs in more than 3 seconds lol. I don't bother myself with 6 key sweating, I only do 5. And I can say there are ways to mitigate 'bad dps/healer/tank problem': for a tank it's deadlands demolisher bash tank (I run the exact same build in PvP and PvE group content hehe) or frost-HA-semi-dd tank in case of dk class; for a dps it's HA+pale order mythic build with 3 heavy pcs on you, you'll be able to withstand almost any situation when tank's down; and for a healer it's similar to the previous one, and the arcanist works the best for me in this regard: just slot DSA resto bb or any support set, say, SPC as bb (in pair to deadly dw frontbar) and you're gtg. Geared like this (+pale order), you may even slot simmering frenzy and fire thru 5-key routine like a meteor. And in general with an experienced group you wouldn't need a dedicated tank in any instance up to dlc normal, at all. Let the beefiest one slot taunt and that's enough lmao.
Started the game as a tank and came back after half a year and its so weird.. in normal content as a tank its almost not needed as DPS kills even bosses within minutes and when tried veteran it was way different, just joining takes more time as people want high level tanks and when I find a game Im leader and others are leaving.. Solo content is also not difficult but sucks that WB takes 30 minutes to kill while not even getting any damage.
Also when you tell the DPS that they need to do something for the mechanics it's like it goes in one ear and out the other as they just stand there mashing buttons 🤦🏻♂️ those books in Scrivener's Hall is a good example
Playing tank is very stressful. One small mistake and you're dead in harder content so it's not very forgiving and everyone blames you for everything that goes wrong. One time in hard mode vet March of Sacrifice, everyone blamed my tanking because they were dying but i would be alive until I purposely killed myself to die. One of the DPS said i should let him come on his tank and we'll finish this easy. He died faster than i did and i had to keep ressing up. The issue was that the DPS and the healer kept standing in stupid over and over again but somehow i was blamed for it. It was so frustrating that after 13 attempts i just left. I've cleared it before many times in hard mode but i they felt that if the group wasn't doing well, it has to be the tank's fault. I didn't tank for months after that. Playing tank in vet dungs or mid tier content is incredibly boring as well because the DPS does just as much dmg as you do but die at least once in every boss. When it's good it's smooth but 8/10 it's F tier dps that makes a dung that would normally take 30-40 mins to complete take 2-3 hrs or never complete in the first place due to DPS checks. You can be the best tank in the world, stay alive and never die, but when everyone else is dead it's so incredibly slow... At least that's my experience with tanking. A lot rides on the DPS and because there's such bad DPS in pug groups a lot of ppl just fake tank. You hit the nail on the head with this video.. THANK YOU for understanding the issues of us tank mains.
I remember when I first got into ESO, at about cp 240ish, I started out tanking. I just wanted to far some gears sets, didn’t even really have particular sets in mind. After a while, it just got boring. I made a healer to practice weaving and still far sets. Way more fun. And when I went back to order world, I could kill things quick. Got a good 2 pet magsorc build and pretty haven’t logged into my tank in like a year, maybe 2.
I played the game for 8k hours. I've completed every trifecta in the game as both tank and DD multiple times. I mostly played as a tank, and my favorite class is Arcanist at the moment. As a tank, I would say I had the most fun. However, you have to admit that you can only play this game seriously if you have three other friends to play with. If you always have to find randoms for the harder content in the game, you're out of luck these days. The reason why no experienced tank is using the queue is because no one, who knows the game, would want to do those 30-40 minute runs with 20k group DPS.
They should just update their dungeon finder queue code so that it tries to prioritize balanced DD groups (i.e. it could look at the last N dungeons, check the historic avg DPS of both DDs, and if it's low for one of them - group him with a different DD which had historically above avg DPS).
for those, who want be a tank and make dps I recommend lazy tank build, but instead of shield equip ice staff and atributes dived more or less equally between health and magicka, also food max magicka and health. also u can slot pvp flare for extra resist and magicka recovery and barrier for recover and strong shield if needed. Build is strong enough for 5 keys and dps is 30%-70% depending on group u get
As someone that dosnt have discord. and doesn't join organised raids I like to run random ones with the guildies. Tanking with randoms definitely has its draw backs but I tank to help new players and do things like fang lair 😊 that's how I met some good gamers. If the dd runs off tanking and doing all the damage cool, thanks for doing all the work lol but chances are they still wont be able to absorb a one shot mech as a hybrid dps in vet content😮🎉 And arcanist beam absolutely shreds bosses hp bar in seconds lol😂 we've all seen it. That's what need to change eso cant balance these classes at all.
Tanks and healers, beyond their basic duties have a lot of possible overlap. This is one reason why they're collectively referred to as supports. I generally go by the following priorities: my tanks taunt, survive and debuff enemies; my healers heal and buff the group.
I like tanking in ESO. I only tanked dungeons for a couple years. Then I tried tanking in FF14 and it impacted my love for ESO tanking pretty negatively. I still enjoy it, but I was playing my healer and DPS builds a lot more. Wonder how much I'd have actually enjoyed tanking in ESO if it wasn't my first MMO.
@@bladeninja7495 what I do like about ESO tanking is that I have so options and since all I have to do is taunt and survive, I can choose what kind of flavor of support I want to give, or even if I just wanna be lazy and selfish lol. but build freedom is what I like about ESO in general
@@bladeninja7495 I've only tried ff14 and wow and I liked ff14 but it was like, Warrior is fun and feels great, but I'm playing Warrior, not really playing *my* warrior. ESO my tank didn't feel like anyone elses, but tanking being so simple is kind of what lends itself to that option.
@@swanvonmane8533 the problem is this only applys to casual content. To accomplish any of the harder content you’re required to have very specific setups because sets are so unbalanced. There will always be a META and I’m aware of that. But having about 4 different tank sets that are necessary for end game content is really restricting. It’s pretty much the same with DPS, they killed half of their variety when they added hybridization. There are no mag and stam dk’s anymore. Everyone is just a dps dragon knight that uses whatever weapon type does the most damage and whatever skills have the biggest tooltips regardless of the resource cost
I was helping a friend out the other day on one of my tanks . They had told me they hadn't completed vet Fang Lair and I was like that's not too difficult so we started a group and I invited a good healer friend of mine to join us too but they had to leave before we could queue so the healer was puged. If it wasn't for the fact I knew what I was doing as a tank we wouldn't have made it as far as we did but the replacement healer I'm sure was a fake. I'm not the biggest fan of fake heals but if you're gonna do that at least be a good dps and know mechs! Unfortunately my friend had an emergency and couldn't complete the dungeon but I don't think we would have with the fake healer/poor dps anyway.
I tank because I like tanking. But I hate tanking in ESO. It's been an issue for years in the community. Nobody wants to tank. So you'd figure ZOS would change the philosophy for tanking in ESO.. 😢 I'm about to go back to WoW. Even New World tanking feels better.
You know I kinda like being the only tank, I can pop a grand scroll at the end of BG win and go straight into a dungeon, then I just keep dungeon delving until the scroll is out. Suddenly I’m 8 levels ahead on my new character.
No aoe taunt absolutely kills my ability to tank. Unfortunately I do not have the best eyesight, and when there are tons of mobs and all kinds of spell effects flashing about, I simply lose track of where everything is and cannot keep on top of every loose mob.
It's obvi not for trials and stuff but I started tanking simply for faster q times and rn I'm using an arcanist with TT and Deadly sets and it's pretty fun because tides is a solid tank set but deadly lets me still beam in normal and most vet dungeons and have more fun while doing so
99% of those ‘games’ are frustrating when neither of the DD’s and the healer know the mechanics to the base game vet dungeons, and they are boasting 1500CP and keep dying. I miss the pandemic when the dungeon queues were full of players who actually knew what they were doing.
I often don't like tanking because most DPS in this game are terrible. I know that sounds elitist, but it's true. When I get a decent group, tanking is a joy.
if you're going to PUG then be sure your setup has some selfish to it. Plan on a not-so-good healer (so, self heals), and so-so dps (so, good health and resistances) Also plan on a nuke dps that will occasionally pull agro from you. The big payoff for tanking pug dungeons is the zero wait time. Even if you select specific dungeons you have no wait time. If your setup is correct, think solo build without the dps, you will have little problems at all. To learn trials, start only with your guild on normal. oh, and yes eso needs to add aoe taunts for sword and board.
as a tank main its is a nightmare do vet pledges in pugs cause i know for a fact if i got over 15% of the damge its gonna be rough time cause often case DD suck at damage . like yesterday the pledges took me like 2 hours in total cause the damge was just nor there at it sucked soo bad. my mate joins me more often then not and he plays healer , i ussually have himwe slot some DD abilities just so shit goes faster
There is a simole solution - experiment with sets/skill combos for a DPS Tank Hybrid build. Make sure u can taunt - use sets that buff team/defuff enemy - slot some DD skills. Advisable to have two groups of sets, to switch to full on tank when you get to the harder bosses. But thus way, you are not fully dependent on DDs to maintain their DMG
Tanking confuses me, and the few times I tried it I had a difficult time maintaining threat on groups of enemies as well as some bosses. It's also just way easier to level alts via random dungeon spamming as a healer because there's almost no queue time as a healer, and you just spam the same 2 or 3 abilities to keep the party alive.
In ESO you are not supposed to taunt groups of enemies. The devs want tanking in ESO to be more strategic, meaning you have to choose which enemies to taunt (mainly elites and bosses). Thats why the game only have single-target taunts.
main tank here, gone through all trials on vet (no hard modes yet outside of crag), I like it, I just like tanking and being tanky in general, if I'm gonna game for escapism then I'm gonna be the meatshield I want to be instead of this 115 Lbs skin and bones twig that turns invisible if I go sideways that I actually am! More seriously though, a reason I can think of is based on anecdotal events. For example, back when I started, was still learning and had just hit lvl 45 about 4 years ago or something, I was running through Moonhunter Keep for my first time as one of my first DLC dungeons. I was in there to get my skill points. The other dungeons clearly did not prepare me for it and back then it had more mechanics to it to look out for and there wasn't as much power creep yet so I had a hard time learning it. The entire time though I was being berated by some asshole DPS who assumed I should have known perfectly what I was doing from the get-go...a lvl 45 newbie who went in there for the first time. I ignored it and moved on because I don't let these people get to me, I'm just sad thinking that some other poor saps could have ended up with this same guy at some other point in time, and what if that interaction ruined the role for them forever? Tanks need learning like anyone else but the least at least some people could do is give them the room to learn and be okay with wiping a few times. Losing isn't exactly the end of the world, it's just a video game.
If they gave tanks a little more damage when battle spirit was NOT active and paired that with an AOE taunt I think I’d do a triple backflip with excitement
@@Cooperharley0204 1.It can be fixed if you add some damage skills like beam or jabs, but there should be dps skills spesifically for tanks. 2 dont even think about aoe taunt in eso.. (not gonna happen)
No aoe taunt says it a lot by itself. I don't understand ESO's philosophy with this. You can't reasonably expect damage dealers in any PUG to wait for the tank to grab aggro before they start hurling rocks and fatecarvers. The GO GO GO mentality of PUGs in ESO is beyond obnoxious. And if you're trying to complete a dungeon quest without clicking through the dialogue like a meth addict, you're WRONG. ESO dungeon PUGs are a shit show; a stain on the ESO experience.
used to love templar tanking vet dunegons with the tormentor and swarm mother sets, charge everything and have ranged get pulled to me because of the swarm set, basically played like a paladin tank from WoW, don't bother since the tormentor nerf, kinda hardly play the game because of it tbh.
Tanking is the only role in group content that is actually fun and rewarding. Its strategic, you have to think about what you are doing, you have to prepare by learning mechs. You lead the entire group, you go first and stand alone face to face with the biggest enemies, and often when the DDs die you can save the day, get the team up or do the last 100k damage on the boss. Being a DD is just boring. Run together with seven other dudes, stand on top of each other because you are all afraid, and then press X, LA, Y, LA, LB, LA, X, LA for ten minutes until the boss is dead. I tag along as a DD in dungeons and trials when I dont know the mechs, and its just so incredibly boring doing the «rotation» like a robot.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in personal experience i feel like tanking is so boring. Half the time I don’t have to swap bars in high end vet content. Dps is boring too an extent but when I tanked I was doing like 4 skills on repeat at times
Hi Cooper! 10/10 my favorite ESO TH-camr, can't wait to watch the growth of your channel. Any chance you have a discord channel or Patreon set up? Would love to join/support
@@Chrysaphius86 Nah, the sitting duck training dummy style of tanking is Just boring, yes It is cool survive a 45k+ hit while also taunting and debuffing, but u Just stand still and thats all
For myself, it is a complete waste of time to group up for vet content. Where I live the ISP is so bad that I can't even run vMA or anything else. With a group, regardless of my role I can't do what I'm suppose to do and end up getting yelled at or kicked. So even after playing since beta, I still have never played a trial. I have no vet arena or dungeon gear and even been kicked out of guilds because of it.
Crimson oath, tremorscale, turning tide with vDSA weapon and shield. Swap to good old bloodspawn for trash to build up ulti for doot doot on boss. rinse repeat.
Every time I made a tank build, it would get nerfed because of assholes in pvp. So why would I bother? I love tanking. I was really good at it in every game I played. I had aggro and interrupt skills for melee and ranged. I studied mechanics. I slotted as much synergy and group buffs/heals as I could without sacrificing survivability. But then they nerfed damage shields.
Love tanking in ESO. You need to learn what enemies are dangerous, which you need to taunt. Mobs you control with crowd control skills(slowing, rooting, stunning etc). You can do plenty of damage on a tank as long as you bring a taunt.
I have farmed almost the entire stickerbook, which means I have tanked a lot of normal and vet dungeons via Dungeon Finder with PUGs. Queueing solo as a tank basically guarantees you get a PUG straightaway. It's IMO the best way to farm. Normal dungeons average out at half an hour. The problem is IMO the lack of community content, such as build videos, designed specifically for this purpose. The tank / DD hybrid build you need is quite different from anything else. I'm not talking about a fake tank. It's basically a templar or a Master's 2H Brawler build with a Tormentor back bar. Depending on your exact spec, this does exactly what you and those Reddit posts are looking for, e.g. it's a DD tanky enough to be the tank in most dungeons, with an AOE taunt, great AOE damage, and 15K to 30K single target damage on a normal target skeleton, depending on how exactly you spec it. That kind of build will tank or entirely carry the group. A Tormentor / Brawler build on the tanky end of the spectrum will solo the hardest base game vet dungeon, City of Ash 2, on hard mode, while taunting everything. Having a group just makes it faster. There may be other builds that can do the same. You simply have to get out of the mindset that trickle-down knowledge from how tanks operate in vet trials is also optimal for dungeon PUGs. It is not. That said, the problem with random dungeons is that the difficulty runs the gamut and may demand that you adjust your build. Knowing exactly how to spec your tank / DD hybrid, and in which (DLC) dungeon fights you have to fall back on a conventional blocking setup via gear change, that only comes with experience. The first boss fight in even just normal March of Sacrifices is the rare normal example where a too low health / no extra block mitigation setup simply won't work. On the other hand the final boss in vet Cauldron hard mode is an example that can be soloed on a tanky 2H Brawler spec. It's high pressure, but it doesn't need a blocking tank, nor a group, and only minimal mechanics knowledge with the right build. I am not talking about a high-skill solo build that heavy attacks. It can be done with a tanky Brawler that simply powers through. If you want to deal an optimal amount of damage, you need experience, preparation, and you probably want the Dressing Room addon on PC. You can limit yourself to one or two builds, if you don't want to squeeze optimal damage from your setup. That said, you have described ZOS' philosophy correctly. They are about to nerf the Tormentor set, which currently provides an AOE taunt when using Stampede or Explosive Charge. This is a shame. It's a fun playstyle that also keeps you ahead of DDs rushing in. If I had any sway, I'd contact ZOS about this IMO questionable change. It's an armor set that precisely plugs the gap you described, yet is hardly ever used in truly hard content, such as vet trials. When I read the patch notes, I thought ZOS' stubborn insistence on their "philosophy" seriously out of touch.
Two examples of my Brawlersorc, specced out for more damage and more tankiness. I wouldn't really do vSWR with a PUG, nor with that build, but it shows how far you can push this kind of build: th-cam.com/video/w00hhYOod4I/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/fuCXG3RRuxk/w-d-xo.html
The real issue with being a tank, as a tank main with most trial trifectas, is that this game is CARRIED by friends. Random anything on any role is brutal. This game forces you to find a raid team, or find some friends and grow with them, and play with them. if you do not, then you're gonna have a bad time on any role no matter how good you are.
Tanks and healers are expected to be buff bitches in vet content. I used to love tanking early on in eso. After a while i got tired of doing the tank part and DPS would have taunts on their bars and pull agro. They wonder why they die, saying I'm a bad tank. I tell them i tank vet dlc and have no death runs and a lot of achievements to prove it. I also like to teach mechanics but people don't listen. Now i only play as a healer because it's less stressful. If you stand in stupid you die it's as easy as that.
Imo, I think that people would like to tank, but it's unnecessary at lower levels and new tanks are dropped into the hardest content without knowing how it works. A single mistake can wipe the entire group. This is scary and you will get trashed for this. It's also very expensive to build (Power Assault staff is like 4M+ last I checked) and sucks for solo content.
As a Sorc Tank main- Tanking is boring, Only 2 weapon options that are viable S&B + Ice Staff, No Aoe Taunt, Most pulls die to fast for u to enjoy tanking. If there were more weapon options then maybe it could make up for everything by having more tank weapons
every mmo has an AOE tank ability, somehow ESO doesn't have that to maintain aggro. I am basing this off of my early years of experience before the necromancer and arcanist released.
I DPS main everything except pugging vet dungeons because of the queue. With limited gaming time I built a tank just for that. I'm not a fan at all. It's the exception, not the rule, that you get good DPS (they don't need to be great, just good). I've carried low CP DD's through vet dlc content because they were good, but bad DD's (no matter the CP count) are just bad. Worse are the ones that are bad and try to blame ev1 else for issues, those toxic morons can kick rocks.
average player queuing pugs in this game just for the xp bonus actually sucks at DPS. I've left multiple vet LoM because the DPS physically can't bass Boss 3, maybe they thought they'd get carried by the other DPS or they just actually don't understand the difficulty curve in the game.
So I see alot of "No Aoe taunting is bad" comments and Idk if that is a hot take, but I think these people want an Aoe taunt because of the same reason you mentioned a lot in this video. There dps players suck. If you run a dungeon (I'm just guessing now this is about dungeons) with good dps players and you do your Void Bash, Caltrops, Wall Pulsar, the enemies are already dead. There is just no real use for an aoe taunt, espacially when non elite mobs in dungeons are not dangerous at all In other mmo's I played when a tiny archer focus a dd by accident they lose 60% of the health. But in Eso? Nah small adds are whatever. About Trial mechanics: You will notice tanking becomin "easier" at least for your own sanity, when you start going for trifectas. Before that, getting wiped kinda sucked, yeah. But at this point were every single death means a restart you start noticing its the dps that are sweating the most. Because now it's not just 1 person dying, its the whole run. While as a tank you did that "not dying" shit the whole prog.
I tank alot and i teach and tutor all players, people in the community are very clocky and don't like new people unless they don't have a choice. I have all trefectas and I still can't get into groups as a tank so i rarely get on eso now. Pros instant dung qs easier to farm gear Cons: required to many skill points Requires way to much time to learn endgame let alone be invited Toxicity always goes at the tank over every thing else. Tanking in eso isn't viable for most people due to the lack of skilled players Tanking is not fun for slow runs Also i get forced to raidlead constantly I could list thousands of cons but I'll leave it there
I like tanking, I just wish templar was a better tank, and a Necro was a better dps. Because I have both of them, but Templar tanking is meh, and Necro dps is….
Tank damage 🟰 th-cam.com/users/shortsYqKcacz3v4g?si=3gSdGQ154e2rHm9l as trivial as overland and world bosses are in ESO for experience players, tanking remains the only role that hinders other tanks when they are in an area. DPS and healers can number in the dozens and not impede one another generally, but multiple tanks will steal each others taunts regardless of capability in that role. if tanks were able to perform a damaging synergy based on their teammates output, they would probably feel more satisfying outside of demanding Contin, that cannot be beaten without them
tanking outside of vet dungeons or trials feels like i am wasting my time, most normal content is full of bad high level 1st person camera using Skyrim online type dps or actual noobs levelling or players leveling alts without making training gear so they do no damage. Tanking is the most important role in the group, no tank? no vet hm dungeon clear. yet tanking is one of the most unfun roles in the game. When ZOS kills off more 'fun' or 'easy' tank builds like the aoe templar taunt or werewolf it doesn't help. ZOS needs to make PvE tanking more fun (or have actual pug matchmaking of some kind) and basically kill off the PvP tank meta some how
No real concept of threat beyond single target taunts and all sets are basically just giving buffs to people/debuffs to enemies rather than tools to make your job easier (which ironically would make everyone else's jobs easier by default). If you don't wear a set that gives buffs to others or use abilities that give specific buffs to the group, the build is then called a "selfish" build despite the very role of tank being non-selfish in nature... I have never considered maintaining buff durations for other people particularly compelling gameplay. Other people having control over my build and gear erks me. My suggestion is to give tank gear set bonuses that add unique utility or tools to maintain control of the battle field or tools for the job and make the enemies hit MUCH harder on any who aren't built for survivability (so the role of tank is actually needed in most situations), then maybe we can talk. This is why I and likely many others tank in pretty much every mmorpg EXCEPT ESO
I agree. It’s always been my least favorite part about support roles. I find that selfish builds tend to be drastically more fun more often, but they’re so frowned upon
@@Cooperharley0204 The closest we ever had to a decently interesting "utility" build, as I prefer to call them, was the Tormentor AoE taunt and Rush of Agony item set combination. It wasn't even a build used in the end-game, just a niche build they didn't like for pretty much no reason or because a few people were having fun with it. The irony is that the build also protected the party better since they were all attacking the tank (ya know, tanking) rather than running around randomly choosing targets, AND it increased the DPS of the party members by causing enemies to be clustered together allowing the group to just layer on the AoE damage. It wasn't a perfect build, but it was actually entertaining and I was able to pretend to be a tank for a minute there. Can't have that!
Come to console and see how bad it is 😂. I want to point out something i think you missed mentioning (all your other points are spot on). The name of the game is dps. You're designing your tank to support that dps and be as efficient as possible, Just as they are. When you run with x2 dps that are 120k you need to sustain an add pool for 10 seconds, when your running with x2 dps with 20k dps it takes much longer and you have to manage to sustain that on the same build. You make your builds to reflect and compliment your group dps and you're at their mercy. Tanks will only take dps they know because they know their build is right for those dd and can sustain and compliment them with set ups.
another reason why players don't tank is class skills, this may have changed I quit before necrom because of this. templar tank is the most non functional poorly deigned tank class I've seen ever seen, needing to use 2 different desro staff skill just to aoe root when other classes eg warden and DK just press 1 thats just one issue I have with this terrible class ( I'm already mad thinking abought it) nightblade same point as templar its just doesn't work these no buff or skill that makes this worth running over anting else at leas it has a % burst heal unlike templar. soecerer is ok. the block value buff is fun to use as well as the pet heal, unless it dies, if only a high mobility tank as useful in this game. DK is really good, I personally hate it, I think stager staking should not drop block but overall a very good class. warden is a good class has everting it needs to be a fun tank but noting spectacular. necromancer in my opinion this is the best class its aoe root is kind of bad but the focus on ult generation and the alt abilities themselves more than makeup for it, clunky but fun. the new class whatever its called I cant comment as I've never played it. excluding the new class their are 2 good tanks, 2 ok tanks and 2 bad tanks so on character creation you have a 1 in 3 chance of making a tank that will preform poorly on anting harder than base game vet content, I'm not saying it can't be done but just don't put yourself and yore team through this pain. the warden tank class kit should be the standard for all tanks as the kit is easy to use their are no holes in capability and it has a unique quirk in passive max health increase on heal.
Long winded rant incoming..... I love tanking but it is often a slog. nothing bothers me more than queueing up as a healer or dps and finding out you have some 340cp dps nerd queued as a tank because he didn't want to wait for that long dps queue. so i often queue up for pug groups as a tank and i see a massive portion of the community has absolutely no idea what they should be doing on a minute to minute basis. within the last 24 hours i have encountered 3 players in random vet dungeons with more than 500cp one of them had 1400 and none of them had sets equipped. i have never minded taking the time to teach people mechanics but no amount of coaching will help a 600 cp sorc wearing various blue and green heavy armor pieces get through vet Bal Sunnar. And on the other hand people have these ridiculous expectations of the random people they come across in random dungeons. i was in vet earthen root enclave as a dps and the other dps was lets just say sub optimal, by the time we got to the first boss the tank messaged the group and said "im out you guys dont nearly have the dps to be here" never thought my 90k dps templar was subpar but to each their own. he sent a few more disparaging messages and quit the group. This has become ridiculously common people act as if the bare minimum for dps is 80k+ when in reality 20-30k will see you comfortably through any vet dungeon. i really hate the player base sometimes.
Tanking is just plain boring. ESO lacks build variety overall. Everyone uses the same 20 sets and anything outside of those are just so lackluster that it makes harder content an absolute slog or just outright can't be completed.
If you are doing a non dlc vet you can have a setup with like 30k hp and you are straight up a dps with a taunt and some sort of self heal, but for dlc vet dungeons you have to actually tank. But support overall is only fun when the people you are supporting know what they are doing. The same for healing
This. All the damage boosting sets in the world dont mean jack if the vast majority of dps in this game cant even pull 25k. I know, I tank allot. It sucks.
@@Supadrumma44125k per DPS would need heavenly... Oftentimes I see on my CMX that my 9-10k DPS on my tank is doing about 50% of the DMG with a total group DPS of 20k or so. It's incredibly painful to go through a vet dlc dung like that and if you hit a DPS check, you somehow take the blame for not finishing.
I like to tank but, but I have to do always everything even heal the group
OMG so spot on.I primarily tanked from day 1. Loved the role and responsibility. Call me a control freak but was so fun to first time thru hard mode vet dlc dungeons. My message board for requests to help a group out of a jam was always full. Unfortunately, the constant grind for new sets along with terrible players made it not so fun anymore.. Miss those times.
I use a nord dk with oakensoul, spell power cure, and powerful assault, trainee heavy chest, and its been the only way I could take a pve tank into overland and pvp etc. just because essentially you give everyone over 700 weapon and spell dmg including yourself.
My 2nd character for ESO was a Tank, leveled as a Tank... but is now my main PvP character for Cyrodiil.
I've tried Tanking a few times, with different classes. The one I had the most fun with was my Necro Tank... now my main I.C. PvP character.
After Tanking both Vet DLC Dungeons and Trials, I had people telling me my setup sucked and I wouldn't be able to Tank Vet content. Same with my Necro Healer.
So now I don't DO Tanking, because for the most part other players made my funist Tank not fun.
Same with my Necro Healer, I only bring him out for Guildmates that I can voice chat with ( PC on Discord) so that I can explain how he works.
It's simply easier on my nerves to DPS for PUGs.
IMO, the biggest problem with people not Tanking is other players. IDK how many times I've seen 'You don't need a Tank or Healer' for.....
While that may be true, how do you get experience if no one is willing to let you learn? You'd think in Normal Dungeons, right? But no.. cause 'you don't need' a Tank or Healer in Normal Dungeons and non-DLC vet Dungeons.
So when Baby Tank with almost no experience goes into DLC vet Dungeon and doesn't know their job, everyone whines and tells them they should have learned the roll before doing DLC vet Dungeons.
To get the job you need experience,
But to get experience you need the job.
Player that play as dps spoil the tanking experience because they run ahead of the tank.
Random dungeons are incentivized as a great way to get xp and your keys so people want to do them fast. If tanks had AOE taunts and didn’t have lower movement speed for no reason it wouldn’t be such an issue. Dps just want to do the dungeon fast and get their reward so they can move on to content they actually want to do. If ZOS just made tanks more mobile it wouldn’t be such an issue to do big pulls.
Main reason: frustration with taunts not taking when clearly they hit a target.
Sure you dont hit enemies that cant be taunted?
Taunt immune is a thing
I hate when this happens. It might be server lag or something, but hitting a boss with a taunt and them continuing on to smack a DPS is quite irritating.
I have always liked Tanking in ESO, but it could use a little refreshment.
Biggest issue with tanking is that for normal content, its basically irrelevant, and in vet its pretty much a "boost dps as much as possible and never stop holding block" Basically, its boring as hell, especially with the fact that allot of pug groups, not to be elitist, just suck. Most dps can barely pull 25k dps in my experience, so all the dps boosting sets in the game really dont mean jack if your party is atrocious.
The lack of aoe taunt is an annoyance but not the end of the world, I straight up REFUSE to chase after mobs taunting every single mob. One of my favourite trash clearing sets for me right now is dark convergence, mainly because it groups big packs up and stuns so I don't have to run around like a headless chicken spamming pierce armour.
When it comes to running daily normals for transmutes, most of my tanks are basically dps in heavy armour these days. 1, its more fun and 2, I can compensate for garbage pug groups. I have my single nightblade and my dk tanks that are "proper" tanks for vet content.
Ugh, I used to love slotting DC bb on my main necro healer and carry the team with the grave synergy thru all the mob packs... Modern cooldown time and huge nerfs to the class and harmony trait makes it almost useless . :(
Yep every fun build is nerfed, you will be bored sitting there holding block and LIKE it - Zos probably@@DrYankeeDoodle
@@Supadrumma441maybe i'm late to this conversation, but imagine they just nerfing on PTS the Tormentor set, telling some bs like "like everything in the world thing needs come to an end". Why? Cause it's ZOS :D
No fun is allowed while tanking in ESO, you will sit there bored out of your mind holding block and LIKE IT - ZOS probably@@gudhlef
@@Supadrumma441 The problem is they made fun PvE sets that were blatantly broken in pvp to an absurd degree and they refuse to balance the two seperately
Some of my most fun runs took 3+ hours with low CP pugs and 20K group damage. That's where doing mechs to a tee really matters.
I would say the theme of this podcast, specifically the part about crawling really slowly in a dungeon, is accurate. I have been doing vet dungeons with random groups. I finally got a guild of good people and the speed at which we can move through is amazing.
My 2nd char at Lvl 50 is a Arcanist Tank (the other 2 are DDs: Vamp Necro and Stamplar). I was very unsure about tanking, because of what I heard prior (mainly the elitist players), but after I found a guild I grew more confident. I am at CP450ish now and still hesitate to just queue for vet pledges or rvds, because I am afraid to get a dungeon I don't know and then make mistakes. The blame of me dying in Frostvault (as DD) 6 times in one go still goes deep.
It's getting better though.
BTW, I definitely noticed the bad DPS more than once during pug dungeons. Especially since I only have a few DLC dungeons in my list. The amount of times I end up in Spindleclutch or Fungal Grotto with Lvl20s is huge.
Hi hi,
Just getting back into the game after being away for a few years. I typically like Tanks and Pet Classes in MMO's, so I am planning on rolling a Necro. Either magica or tank, undecided yet. (still catching up on stuffs) But IIRC, my main complaint about tanking when I was playing a DK, is that solo play felt lackluster. It was slow and ponderous at times, and outside very specific fights, tanks weren't really needed. So it felt like I was hobbling my own play which is mostly solo, for the occasional fun job to do. As far as ESO itself? Well, I did tire of the "gogogogo" play from random groups. I know that's kind of the deal with randoms, and I don't mind people pulling, but what I do mind is if they get themselves stomped and then blame me for it which I seemed to remember happening frequently. I haven't given up on tanking, as I really love it, but I am more or less re-learning everything all over again.
The real reason is that people are trash and all think the same way. Drones. Sheep.....The narcissism is off the charts. EVERYONE wants to do damage and that's it. Been playing since beta and it's ALWAYS been this way. My guild has a saying: In ESO, there's 45,000 deeps, and theres only 19 tanks, and we have 8 of them....
He makes a lot of good points. In normal it's basically everyone from himself, no one follws any kind group role rule. Healers trying to be first in etc. The penalties are low in normal so it can teach bad habits. In vet dungeons i found people mostly are not setup for grp content but still solo so many of the skills the benefit a grp a missing because they still have no understanding of group build vs solo build. The last thing that makes people not want to tank is the numbers people, whose concern is stats over dmg in the grp or why isnt the healer doing more dps, or tanks that brag they are highest dps in grp but never taunted anything and everyone was struggling to stay alive. ESO was a shock when i started playing yrs ago compared to other games and it really showed no one cared about performing their role.
I tried to start to learn tanking however every one in dungeons are toxic! criticizing you while you’re trying to learn, making it completely miserable to try and learn. If people are upset that there are not more tanks maybe they should stop criticizing people who are trying to learn tanking this makes all new potential tanks give up on tanking before they actually learn anything.
I started tanking, because of that eso picture… with a Tank leading, a healer elf and a nightblade(s) following the tank. So I, could lead the way through the vet dungeons or more stuff I wanted. And not depend on another random tank… also farm certain dungeons basically. It’s great tanking, Im making a healer next.
The main reason I run tanks is the q' time: I get angry when tank q' procs in more than 3 seconds lol. I don't bother myself with 6 key sweating, I only do 5. And I can say there are ways to mitigate 'bad dps/healer/tank problem': for a tank it's deadlands demolisher bash tank (I run the exact same build in PvP and PvE group content hehe) or frost-HA-semi-dd tank in case of dk class; for a dps it's HA+pale order mythic build with 3 heavy pcs on you, you'll be able to withstand almost any situation when tank's down; and for a healer it's similar to the previous one, and the arcanist works the best for me in this regard: just slot DSA resto bb or any support set, say, SPC as bb (in pair to deadly dw frontbar) and you're gtg. Geared like this (+pale order), you may even slot simmering frenzy and fire thru 5-key routine like a meteor.
And in general with an experienced group you wouldn't need a dedicated tank in any instance up to dlc normal, at all. Let the beefiest one slot taunt and that's enough lmao.
Started the game as a tank and came back after half a year and its so weird.. in normal content as a tank its almost not needed as DPS kills even bosses within minutes and when tried veteran it was way different, just joining takes more time as people want high level tanks and when I find a game Im leader and others are leaving.. Solo content is also not difficult but sucks that WB takes 30 minutes to kill while not even getting any damage.
really enjoy your eso content. wish servers were up.
lol even in vet dungeons the dds pull ahead of you 😂 I was in Scrivener’s Hall and these dds run into trash mobs and die before I can even get there
Yes the community has built up some really bad habits with normal modes being so braindead easy people have forgotten what death is.
Also when you tell the DPS that they need to do something for the mechanics it's like it goes in one ear and out the other as they just stand there mashing buttons 🤦🏻♂️ those books in Scrivener's Hall is a good example
Playing tank is very stressful. One small mistake and you're dead in harder content so it's not very forgiving and everyone blames you for everything that goes wrong. One time in hard mode vet March of Sacrifice, everyone blamed my tanking because they were dying but i would be alive until I purposely killed myself to die. One of the DPS said i should let him come on his tank and we'll finish this easy. He died faster than i did and i had to keep ressing up. The issue was that the DPS and the healer kept standing in stupid over and over again but somehow i was blamed for it. It was so frustrating that after 13 attempts i just left. I've cleared it before many times in hard mode but i they felt that if the group wasn't doing well, it has to be the tank's fault. I didn't tank for months after that.
Playing tank in vet dungs or mid tier content is incredibly boring as well because the DPS does just as much dmg as you do but die at least once in every boss. When it's good it's smooth but 8/10 it's F tier dps that makes a dung that would normally take 30-40 mins to complete take 2-3 hrs or never complete in the first place due to DPS checks. You can be the best tank in the world, stay alive and never die, but when everyone else is dead it's so incredibly slow... At least that's my experience with tanking. A lot rides on the DPS and because there's such bad DPS in pug groups a lot of ppl just fake tank. You hit the nail on the head with this video.. THANK YOU for understanding the issues of us tank mains.
I remember when I first got into ESO, at about cp 240ish, I started out tanking. I just wanted to far some gears sets, didn’t even really have particular sets in mind.
After a while, it just got boring. I made a healer to practice weaving and still far sets. Way more fun. And when I went back to order world, I could kill things quick.
Got a good 2 pet magsorc build and pretty haven’t logged into my tank in like a year, maybe 2.
I played the game for 8k hours. I've completed every trifecta in the game as both tank and DD multiple times. I mostly played as a tank, and my favorite class is Arcanist at the moment. As a tank, I would say I had the most fun. However, you have to admit that you can only play this game seriously if you have three other friends to play with. If you always have to find randoms for the harder content in the game, you're out of luck these days. The reason why no experienced tank is using the queue is because no one, who knows the game, would want to do those 30-40 minute runs with 20k group DPS.
They should just update their dungeon finder queue code so that it tries to prioritize balanced DD groups (i.e. it could look at the last N dungeons, check the historic avg DPS of both DDs, and if it's low for one of them - group him with a different DD which had historically above avg DPS).
That’d be cool. Don’t know if our current queue system could handle that much info though 🤣
If DDs run ahead. Let them.. It's on them if they die
for those, who want be a tank and make dps I recommend lazy tank build, but instead of shield equip ice staff and atributes dived more or less equally between health and magicka, also food max magicka and health. also u can slot pvp flare for extra resist and magicka recovery and barrier for recover and strong shield if needed. Build is strong enough for 5 keys and dps is 30%-70% depending on group u get
As someone that dosnt have discord. and doesn't join organised raids I like to run random ones with the guildies. Tanking with randoms definitely has its draw backs but I tank to help new players and do things like fang lair 😊 that's how I met some good gamers. If the dd runs off tanking and doing all the damage cool, thanks for doing all the work lol but chances are they still wont be able to absorb a one shot mech as a hybrid dps in vet content😮🎉
And arcanist beam absolutely shreds bosses hp bar in seconds lol😂 we've all seen it. That's what need to change eso cant balance these classes at all.
Tanks and healers, beyond their basic duties have a lot of possible overlap. This is one reason why they're collectively referred to as supports.
I generally go by the following priorities: my tanks taunt, survive and debuff enemies; my healers heal and buff the group.
I like tanking in ESO. I only tanked dungeons for a couple years. Then I tried tanking in FF14 and it impacted my love for ESO tanking pretty negatively. I still enjoy it, but I was playing my healer and DPS builds a lot more.
Wonder how much I'd have actually enjoyed tanking in ESO if it wasn't my first MMO.
Tanking in FFXIV taught me how bad tanking was in ESO, I was blind to how much fun tanking could be if you weren’t just a taunt bot
@@bladeninja7495 what I do like about ESO tanking is that I have so options and since all I have to do is taunt and survive, I can choose what kind of flavor of support I want to give, or even if I just wanna be lazy and selfish lol.
but build freedom is what I like about ESO in general
@@swanvonmane8533 I’m not trying to argue against you, but it’s funny because lack of build freedom is why I quit lol
@@bladeninja7495 I've only tried ff14 and wow and I liked ff14 but it was like, Warrior is fun and feels great, but I'm playing Warrior, not really playing *my* warrior. ESO my tank didn't feel like anyone elses, but tanking being so simple is kind of what lends itself to that option.
@@swanvonmane8533 the problem is this only applys to casual content. To accomplish any of the harder content you’re required to have very specific setups because sets are so unbalanced. There will always be a META and I’m aware of that. But having about 4 different tank sets that are necessary for end game content is really restricting. It’s pretty much the same with DPS, they killed half of their variety when they added hybridization. There are no mag and stam dk’s anymore. Everyone is just a dps dragon knight that uses whatever weapon type does the most damage and whatever skills have the biggest tooltips regardless of the resource cost
I was helping a friend out the other day on one of my tanks . They had told me they hadn't completed vet Fang Lair and I was like that's not too difficult so we started a group and I invited a good healer friend of mine to join us too but they had to leave before we could queue so the healer was puged. If it wasn't for the fact I knew what I was doing as a tank we wouldn't have made it as far as we did but the replacement healer I'm sure was a fake. I'm not the biggest fan of fake heals but if you're gonna do that at least be a good dps and know mechs! Unfortunately my friend had an emergency and couldn't complete the dungeon but I don't think we would have with the fake healer/poor dps anyway.
I tank because I like tanking. But I hate tanking in ESO. It's been an issue for years in the community. Nobody wants to tank. So you'd figure ZOS would change the philosophy for tanking in ESO.. 😢 I'm about to go back to WoW. Even New World tanking feels better.
ESO tanking is just holding block all day, and hoping the group healer pop you a synergy once awhile to fill your stimina.
You know I kinda like being the only tank, I can pop a grand scroll at the end of BG win and go straight into a dungeon, then I just keep dungeon delving until the scroll is out. Suddenly I’m 8 levels ahead on my new character.
No aoe taunt absolutely kills my ability to tank.
Unfortunately I do not have the best eyesight, and when there are tons of mobs and all kinds of spell effects flashing about, I simply lose track of where everything is and cannot keep on top of every loose mob.
It's obvi not for trials and stuff but I started tanking simply for faster q times and rn I'm using an arcanist with TT and Deadly sets and it's pretty fun because tides is a solid tank set but deadly lets me still beam in normal and most vet dungeons and have more fun while doing so
I main a nerco tank and love doing hard mode content
Always pug vet DLC dungeons with the finder. You get a new game every time!
99% of those ‘games’ are frustrating when neither of the DD’s and the healer know the mechanics to the base game vet dungeons, and they are boasting 1500CP and keep dying.
I miss the pandemic when the dungeon queues were full of players who actually knew what they were doing.
I often don't like tanking because most DPS in this game are terrible. I know that sounds elitist, but it's true. When I get a decent group, tanking is a joy.
if you're going to PUG then be sure your setup has some selfish to it.
Plan on a not-so-good healer (so, self heals), and so-so dps (so, good health and resistances)
Also plan on a nuke dps that will occasionally pull agro from you.
The big payoff for tanking pug dungeons is the zero wait time.
Even if you select specific dungeons you have no wait time.
If your setup is correct, think solo build without the dps, you will have little problems at all.
To learn trials, start only with your guild on normal.
oh, and yes eso needs to add aoe taunts for sword and board.
as a tank main its is a nightmare do vet pledges in pugs cause i know for a fact if i got over 15% of the damge its gonna be rough time cause often case DD suck at damage . like yesterday the pledges took me like 2 hours in total cause the damge was just nor there at it sucked soo bad. my mate joins me more often then not and he plays healer , i ussually have himwe slot some DD abilities just so shit goes faster
There is a simole solution - experiment with sets/skill combos for a DPS Tank Hybrid build.
Make sure u can taunt - use sets that buff team/defuff enemy - slot some DD skills.
Advisable to have two groups of sets, to switch to full on tank when you get to the harder bosses. But thus way, you are not fully dependent on DDs to maintain their DMG
You can get away with this for normal mode, but not vet DLC.
Tanking confuses me, and the few times I tried it I had a difficult time maintaining threat on groups of enemies as well as some bosses. It's also just way easier to level alts via random dungeon spamming as a healer because there's almost no queue time as a healer, and you just spam the same 2 or 3 abilities to keep the party alive.
In ESO you are not supposed to taunt groups of enemies. The devs want tanking in ESO to be more strategic, meaning you have to choose which enemies to taunt (mainly elites and bosses). Thats why the game only have single-target taunts.
main tank here, gone through all trials on vet (no hard modes yet outside of crag), I like it, I just like tanking and being tanky in general, if I'm gonna game for escapism then I'm gonna be the meatshield I want to be instead of this 115 Lbs skin and bones twig that turns invisible if I go sideways that I actually am!
More seriously though, a reason I can think of is based on anecdotal events. For example, back when I started, was still learning and had just hit lvl 45 about 4 years ago or something, I was running through Moonhunter Keep for my first time as one of my first DLC dungeons. I was in there to get my skill points. The other dungeons clearly did not prepare me for it and back then it had more mechanics to it to look out for and there wasn't as much power creep yet so I had a hard time learning it. The entire time though I was being berated by some asshole DPS who assumed I should have known perfectly what I was doing from the get-go...a lvl 45 newbie who went in there for the first time.
I ignored it and moved on because I don't let these people get to me, I'm just sad thinking that some other poor saps could have ended up with this same guy at some other point in time, and what if that interaction ruined the role for them forever? Tanks need learning like anyone else but the least at least some people could do is give them the room to learn and be okay with wiping a few times. Losing isn't exactly the end of the world, it's just a video game.
when i tank i always think to myself "i wish i could do more damage.."
If they gave tanks a little more damage when battle spirit was NOT active and paired that with an AOE taunt I think I’d do a triple backflip with excitement
@@Cooperharley0204 1.It can be fixed if you add some damage skills like beam or jabs, but there should be dps skills spesifically for tanks. 2 dont even think about aoe taunt in eso.. (not gonna happen)
No aoe taunt says it a lot by itself. I don't understand ESO's philosophy with this. You can't reasonably expect damage dealers in any PUG to wait for the tank to grab aggro before they start hurling rocks and fatecarvers. The GO GO GO mentality of PUGs in ESO is beyond obnoxious. And if you're trying to complete a dungeon quest without clicking through the dialogue like a meth addict, you're WRONG. ESO dungeon PUGs are a shit show; a stain on the ESO experience.
😂"like a meth addict"
used to love templar tanking vet dunegons with the tormentor and swarm mother sets, charge everything and have ranged get pulled to me because of the swarm set, basically played like a paladin tank from WoW, don't bother since the tormentor nerf, kinda hardly play the game because of it tbh.
Tanking is the only role in group content that is actually fun and rewarding. Its strategic, you have to think about what you are doing, you have to prepare by learning mechs. You lead the entire group, you go first and stand alone face to face with the biggest enemies, and often when the DDs die you can save the day, get the team up or do the last 100k damage on the boss. Being a DD is just boring. Run together with seven other dudes, stand on top of each other because you are all afraid, and then press X, LA, Y, LA, LB, LA, X, LA for ten minutes until the boss is dead. I tag along as a DD in dungeons and trials when I dont know the mechs, and its just so incredibly boring doing the «rotation» like a robot.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in personal experience i feel like tanking is so boring. Half the time I don’t have to swap bars in high end vet content. Dps is boring too an extent but when I tanked I was doing like 4 skills on repeat at times
Hi Cooper! 10/10 my favorite ESO TH-camr, can't wait to watch the growth of your channel. Any chance you have a discord channel or Patreon set up? Would love to join/support
That means a lot! Thanks so much! Working on a patreon and a discord is in progress! Keep an eye out :)
My little experince with tanking in this game is that tanking is boring
Feels like allot of effort for little reward to me personally.
It could be someone else taunting off of you too by accident
@@Supadrumma441 yes, i started as a tank, but Its Just that, much effort, nothing as reward
My friend literaly had to carry my on dgs cause i couldnt Deal damage, Its like i was a sitting duck
@@Chrysaphius86 Nah, the sitting duck training dummy style of tanking is Just boring, yes It is cool survive a 45k+ hit while also taunting and debuffing, but u Just stand still and thats all
For myself, it is a complete waste of time to group up for vet content. Where I live the ISP is so bad that I can't even run vMA or anything else. With a group, regardless of my role I can't do what I'm suppose to do and end up getting yelled at or kicked. So even after playing since beta, I still have never played a trial. I have no vet arena or dungeon gear and even been kicked out of guilds because of it.
Noble conquest, turning tide, and whatever, what i use
Crimson oath, tremorscale, turning tide with vDSA weapon and shield. Swap to good old bloodspawn for trash to build up ulti for doot doot on boss. rinse repeat.
Every time I made a tank build, it would get nerfed because of assholes in pvp. So why would I bother?
I love tanking. I was really good at it in every game I played. I had aggro and interrupt skills for melee and ranged. I studied mechanics. I slotted as much synergy and group buffs/heals as I could without sacrificing survivability. But then they nerfed damage shields.
Love tanking in ESO. You need to learn what enemies are dangerous, which you need to taunt.
Mobs you control with crowd control skills(slowing, rooting, stunning etc). You can do plenty of damage on a tank as long as you bring a taunt.
If I tank a normal dung I always slot 2 dots and a spammable to speed things up..but they are usually a boring slog
I have farmed almost the entire stickerbook, which means I have tanked a lot of normal and vet dungeons via Dungeon Finder with PUGs. Queueing solo as a tank basically guarantees you get a PUG straightaway. It's IMO the best way to farm. Normal dungeons average out at half an hour.
The problem is IMO the lack of community content, such as build videos, designed specifically for this purpose. The tank / DD hybrid build you need is quite different from anything else. I'm not talking about a fake tank. It's basically a templar or a Master's 2H Brawler build with a Tormentor back bar. Depending on your exact spec, this does exactly what you and those Reddit posts are looking for, e.g. it's a DD tanky enough to be the tank in most dungeons, with an AOE taunt, great AOE damage, and 15K to 30K single target damage on a normal target skeleton, depending on how exactly you spec it. That kind of build will tank or entirely carry the group. A Tormentor / Brawler build on the tanky end of the spectrum will solo the hardest base game vet dungeon, City of Ash 2, on hard mode, while taunting everything. Having a group just makes it faster. There may be other builds that can do the same.
You simply have to get out of the mindset that trickle-down knowledge from how tanks operate in vet trials is also optimal for dungeon PUGs. It is not. That said, the problem with random dungeons is that the difficulty runs the gamut and may demand that you adjust your build. Knowing exactly how to spec your tank / DD hybrid, and in which (DLC) dungeon fights you have to fall back on a conventional blocking setup via gear change, that only comes with experience. The first boss fight in even just normal March of Sacrifices is the rare normal example where a too low health / no extra block mitigation setup simply won't work. On the other hand the final boss in vet Cauldron hard mode is an example that can be soloed on a tanky 2H Brawler spec. It's high pressure, but it doesn't need a blocking tank, nor a group, and only minimal mechanics knowledge with the right build. I am not talking about a high-skill solo build that heavy attacks. It can be done with a tanky Brawler that simply powers through.
If you want to deal an optimal amount of damage, you need experience, preparation, and you probably want the Dressing Room addon on PC. You can limit yourself to one or two builds, if you don't want to squeeze optimal damage from your setup.
That said, you have described ZOS' philosophy correctly. They are about to nerf the Tormentor set, which currently provides an AOE taunt when using Stampede or Explosive Charge. This is a shame. It's a fun playstyle that also keeps you ahead of DDs rushing in. If I had any sway, I'd contact ZOS about this IMO questionable change. It's an armor set that precisely plugs the gap you described, yet is hardly ever used in truly hard content, such as vet trials. When I read the patch notes, I thought ZOS' stubborn insistence on their "philosophy" seriously out of touch.
Two examples of my Brawlersorc, specced out for more damage and more tankiness. I wouldn't really do vSWR with a PUG, nor with that build, but it shows how far you can push this kind of build:
th-cam.com/video/w00hhYOod4I/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/fuCXG3RRuxk/w-d-xo.html
The real issue with being a tank, as a tank main with most trial trifectas, is that this game is CARRIED by friends. Random anything on any role is brutal. This game forces you to find a raid team, or find some friends and grow with them, and play with them. if you do not, then you're gonna have a bad time on any role no matter how good you are.
"Why don't you tank in ESO?"
Me to every fake tank, who could easily put on some heavy armor and slot a taunt because we were just doing a daily rando
There are some good points here.
Its a multi faceted issue for sure. ZoS design philosophy actively discourages tanking
Tanks and healers are expected to be buff bitches in vet content. I used to love tanking early on in eso. After a while i got tired of doing the tank part and DPS would have taunts on their bars and pull agro. They wonder why they die, saying I'm a bad tank. I tell them i tank vet dlc and have no death runs and a lot of achievements to prove it. I also like to teach mechanics but people don't listen. Now i only play as a healer because it's less stressful. If you stand in stupid you die it's as easy as that.
Imo, I think that people would like to tank, but it's unnecessary at lower levels and new tanks are dropped into the hardest content without knowing how it works. A single mistake can wipe the entire group. This is scary and you will get trashed for this. It's also very expensive to build (Power Assault staff is like 4M+ last I checked) and sucks for solo content.
The only pro for Puging Dungeons as a Tank are the instant q times
As a Sorc Tank main- Tanking is boring, Only 2 weapon options that are viable S&B + Ice Staff, No Aoe Taunt, Most pulls die to fast for u to enjoy tanking.
If there were more weapon options then maybe it could make up for everything by having more tank weapons
An AOE taunt and the option to make all party members abilities visible would make the game worth playing again tbh.
every mmo has an AOE tank ability, somehow ESO doesn't have that to maintain aggro. I am basing this off of my early years of experience before the necromancer and arcanist released.
I DPS main everything except pugging vet dungeons because of the queue. With limited gaming time I built a tank just for that. I'm not a fan at all. It's the exception, not the rule, that you get good DPS (they don't need to be great, just good). I've carried low CP DD's through vet dlc content because they were good, but bad DD's (no matter the CP count) are just bad. Worse are the ones that are bad and try to blame ev1 else for issues, those toxic morons can kick rocks.
I prefer healing the tanks. I'm usually just kiting around, no biggie. Necros got range in that healing category.
average player queuing pugs in this game just for the xp bonus actually sucks at DPS. I've left multiple vet LoM because the DPS physically can't bass Boss 3, maybe they thought they'd get carried by the other DPS or they just actually don't understand the difficulty curve in the game.
So I see alot of "No Aoe taunting is bad" comments and Idk if that is a hot take, but I think these people want an Aoe taunt because of the same reason you mentioned a lot in this video. There dps players suck. If you run a dungeon (I'm just guessing now this is about dungeons) with good dps players and you do your Void Bash, Caltrops, Wall Pulsar, the enemies are already dead. There is just no real use for an aoe taunt, espacially when non elite mobs in dungeons are not dangerous at all In other mmo's I played when a tiny archer focus a dd by accident they lose 60% of the health. But in Eso? Nah small adds are whatever.
About Trial mechanics: You will notice tanking becomin "easier" at least for your own sanity, when you start going for trifectas. Before that, getting wiped kinda sucked, yeah. But at this point were every single death means a restart you start noticing its the dps that are sweating the most. Because now it's not just 1 person dying, its the whole run. While as a tank you did that "not dying" shit the whole prog.
Tell your tank "nice stack". It makes them happy.
I tank alot and i teach and tutor all players, people in the community are very clocky and don't like new people unless they don't have a choice. I have all trefectas and I still can't get into groups as a tank so i rarely get on eso now.
Pros instant dung qs easier to farm gear
Cons: required to many skill points
Requires way to much time to learn endgame let alone be invited
Toxicity always goes at the tank over every thing else.
Tanking in eso isn't viable for most people due to the lack of skilled players
Tanking is not fun for slow runs
Also i get forced to raidlead constantly
I could list thousands of cons but I'll leave it there
I like tanking, I just wish templar was a better tank, and a Necro was a better dps. Because I have both of them, but Templar tanking is meh, and Necro dps is….
Tanking is the shit, love farming dungeons quick
Tank damage 🟰 th-cam.com/users/shortsYqKcacz3v4g?si=3gSdGQ154e2rHm9l
as trivial as overland and world bosses are in ESO for experience players, tanking remains the only role that hinders other tanks when they are in an area. DPS and healers can number in the dozens and not impede one another generally, but multiple tanks will steal each others taunts regardless of capability in that role. if tanks were able to perform a damaging synergy based on their teammates output, they would probably feel more satisfying outside of demanding Contin, that cannot be beaten without them
tanking outside of vet dungeons or trials feels like i am wasting my time, most normal content is full of bad high level 1st person camera using Skyrim online type dps or actual noobs levelling or players leveling alts without making training gear so they do no damage. Tanking is the most important role in the group, no tank? no vet hm dungeon clear. yet tanking is one of the most unfun roles in the game. When ZOS kills off more 'fun' or 'easy' tank builds like the aoe templar taunt or werewolf it doesn't help. ZOS needs to make PvE tanking more fun (or have actual pug matchmaking of some kind) and basically kill off the PvP tank meta some how
No real concept of threat beyond single target taunts and all sets are basically just giving buffs to people/debuffs to enemies rather than tools to make your job easier (which ironically would make everyone else's jobs easier by default). If you don't wear a set that gives buffs to others or use abilities that give specific buffs to the group, the build is then called a "selfish" build despite the very role of tank being non-selfish in nature... I have never considered maintaining buff durations for other people particularly compelling gameplay. Other people having control over my build and gear erks me. My suggestion is to give tank gear set bonuses that add unique utility or tools to maintain control of the battle field or tools for the job and make the enemies hit MUCH harder on any who aren't built for survivability (so the role of tank is actually needed in most situations), then maybe we can talk. This is why I and likely many others tank in pretty much every mmorpg EXCEPT ESO
I agree. It’s always been my least favorite part about support roles. I find that selfish builds tend to be drastically more fun more often, but they’re so frowned upon
@@Cooperharley0204 The closest we ever had to a decently interesting "utility" build, as I prefer to call them, was the Tormentor AoE taunt and Rush of Agony item set combination. It wasn't even a build used in the end-game, just a niche build they didn't like for pretty much no reason or because a few people were having fun with it. The irony is that the build also protected the party better since they were all attacking the tank (ya know, tanking) rather than running around randomly choosing targets, AND it increased the DPS of the party members by causing enemies to be clustered together allowing the group to just layer on the AoE damage. It wasn't a perfect build, but it was actually entertaining and I was able to pretend to be a tank for a minute there. Can't have that!
Come to console and see how bad it is 😂. I want to point out something i think you missed mentioning (all your other points are spot on).
The name of the game is dps. You're designing your tank to support that dps and be as efficient as possible, Just as they are. When you run with x2 dps that are 120k you need to sustain an add pool for 10 seconds, when your running with x2 dps with 20k dps it takes much longer and you have to manage to sustain that on the same build. You make your builds to reflect and compliment your group dps and you're at their mercy. Tanks will only take dps they know because they know their build is right for those dd and can sustain and compliment them with set ups.
I used to love tanking. But lately pug groups have become so toxic, it's not worth it anymore.
another reason why players don't tank is class skills, this may have changed I quit before necrom because of this.
templar tank is the most non functional poorly deigned tank class I've seen ever seen, needing to use 2 different desro staff skill just to aoe root when other classes eg warden and DK just press 1 thats just one issue I have with this terrible class ( I'm already mad thinking abought it)
nightblade same point as templar its just doesn't work these no buff or skill that makes this worth running over anting else at leas it has a % burst heal unlike templar.
soecerer is ok. the block value buff is fun to use as well as the pet heal, unless it dies, if only a high mobility tank as useful in this game.
DK is really good, I personally hate it, I think stager staking should not drop block but overall a very good class.
warden is a good class has everting it needs to be a fun tank but noting spectacular.
necromancer in my opinion this is the best class its aoe root is kind of bad but the focus on ult generation and the alt abilities themselves more than makeup for it, clunky but fun.
the new class whatever its called I cant comment as I've never played it.
excluding the new class their are 2 good tanks, 2 ok tanks and 2 bad tanks so on character creation you have a 1 in 3 chance of making a tank that will preform poorly on anting harder than base game vet content, I'm not saying it can't be done but just don't put yourself and yore team through this pain. the warden tank class kit should be the standard for all tanks as the kit is easy to use their are no holes in capability and it has a unique quirk in passive max health increase on heal.
Tanking in eso is so boring it’s not a suprise no one wants to do it. Taunt -> Buff -> heal ->regain resource -> repeat
Long winded rant incoming..... I love tanking but it is often a slog. nothing bothers me more than queueing up as a healer or dps and finding out you have some 340cp dps nerd queued as a tank because he didn't want to wait for that long dps queue. so i often queue up for pug groups as a tank and i see a massive portion of the community has absolutely no idea what they should be doing on a minute to minute basis. within the last 24 hours i have encountered 3 players in random vet dungeons with more than 500cp one of them had 1400 and none of them had sets equipped. i have never minded taking the time to teach people mechanics but no amount of coaching will help a 600 cp sorc wearing various blue and green heavy armor pieces get through vet Bal Sunnar. And on the other hand people have these ridiculous expectations of the random people they come across in random dungeons. i was in vet earthen root enclave as a dps and the other dps was lets just say sub optimal, by the time we got to the first boss the tank messaged the group and said "im out you guys dont nearly have the dps to be here" never thought my 90k dps templar was subpar but to each their own. he sent a few more disparaging messages and quit the group. This has become ridiculously common people act as if the bare minimum for dps is 80k+ when in reality 20-30k will see you comfortably through any vet dungeon. i really hate the player base sometimes.
i havent tanked in years because i grew tired of low dps and worthless healers.
You can get one shot no matters how high your hp or resources are. That's a lazy mech.
I don't tank cause it's not as fun as say tanking in WoW. No aoe taunting sucks too
Tanking is just plain boring. ESO lacks build variety overall. Everyone uses the same 20 sets and anything outside of those are just so lackluster that it makes harder content an absolute slog or just outright can't be completed.
Because lack of buffs
Only reason why no one tanks in ESO is cause Argo is rng and most often Agro is given to the player who isn’t even in the room.