I’d like to take a moment to appreciate the outro music in this video. It’s totally recognizable now as “Floral Shoppe” by Macintosh Plus. it itself isn’t quite a “pastiche,” but a “remake” in a way of “It’s Your Move” by Diana Ross (played/arranged beautifully btw). I see what you did there rhystic.
An aesthetic reference of an a e s t h e t i c remake :P I do think it presents an interesting thought though - as someone who enjoys both classical music and the gaudy memery of vaporwave, the piano rendition is actually quite nice, and is something that wouldn't be the same or carry the same weight if it was just a piano cover of the original song. I've quite liked what I've played from Theros, it's mechanically interesting and the draft environment is quite good. I don't disagree with the video either though, as I missed the first Theros block so all the rehashes and fairly substantial retreaded ground is still new to me.
yeah, i think seeing more of the underworld in THB would've been good - it might've also been able to show us more of elspeth's journey, which feels extra missing in this set given the lack of a story supplement. regardless, the self-referential in magic is very popular. for better or for worse, people LOVE the full-art nyxlands, and there would've been a ton of outrage if the five monocolor gods hadn't been in this set. people can barely get over the two titans not being a full cycle. if it's any consolation, the pastiche^2 effect that Return To sets have does give the newer audience (like myself!) the chance to experience things for the first time again. sure, we can look back at those cards again or play with them in eternal formats, but there wasn't any way for newbies such as myself to just go to the theros prerelease. it's a give and take, as with a lot of things in this game. just ask the minotaur tribal lovers! good video, sam. and it's good to see you back. hope you're keeping safe in this troubling times.
I'd be curious to see what it'd look like if WotC expanded on the titan and underworld aspects. They'd have to work to make it still feel like Theros, but also that we're exploring new parts and stories of the setting.
I honestly agree with your comment but specifically with your point of newer players experiencing these things for the first time. I just started to play and learn about the big story of MTG during the first weeks of the War of the Spark release (Started playing/learn how to play about a month prior) and there are so many stories and sets that looked amazing to play, like the Inistrad blocks and the Phyrexian/Mirrodan sets. I was not happy about some specific things with the return to Theros, but because it was new for me and showed me many of the old themes and mechanics it became an overall enjoyably experience, and that also extends to this third visit to Ravnica with Guilds/Allegiance which is now one of my favorite plains. I get that for the older players it can get boring to got to the same places, but it can be refreshing every once in a while. And new plains are totally good as well and needed to keep the game fresh and unique, I had fun with Eldraine and I hope to enjoy Ikoria. The return to Zendikar should be fun later in the year even if the Eldrazi are back, that could be a worthwhile experience learning wise. This aspect of having new players experience these older things is one of the main reasons I want some of the older plains/sets to return because I want to experience them (along with my playgroup/friends as well) but with new improvements/canges being welcome as not to just copy the original. The main one that I would want to return from what I have learned is Kamigawa, but any that have not been visited for a long time would be cool just for experiencing them.
Self-referential Magic is fine, and I'm glad we're at a point where we can recognise tropes within this game that we all share. But self-referential cards are only good under 2 conditions: A) If they come from a bottom-up design. We just had a return to Ravnica, and we're about to see a return to Zendikar. Magic came up with and created those worlds, so it feels more authentic for them to focus on those. To do anything else feels cheap. B) If they're used in moderation. Again, we have a lot of returns to Magic's past recently (and we're expecting some from Commander Legends), so just seeing riffs feels like they can't come up with anything new or expand on the ideas they had before. This is only exacerbated by the clear directions they COULD have taken to expand their worldbuilding (with a larger focus on the "Old Gods" in Ravnica, or the Erstwhile, for example)
The new Theros set should've been and likely was initially conceptualized as the first set of a two set block, to introduce new players to the setting and remind old players of what the setting was like. And then in the second set they should've explored the underworld; and it's that set which should've been called Theros: Beyond Death.
Experience-wise, I think, making 2 small sets would've been better than one. Generally I think it was a good move to abandon the Block structure, but here it would've been handy. Imagine this: In the first set we are in the underworld. We explore the realm of death and the surreal landscape where dreams can become real. There we need a mechanic that symbolizes that, that creates tokens based on cards in your and for example. We see Elspeth as she tries to escape. And like Elspeth, we want to escape to see the world of Theros. Then, in the second set, we finally escape - and so do a bunch of other creatures. We get the new Gods, we see them at war, we get to fight Polukranos and the Titans, Calix becomes a 'walker, etc. The way it is right now, we see little about a war and we never spend any time in the underworld and that is a shame if you ask me.
Us, Vorthos, hardly matter to WoTC since we don't make them nearly as much money as the other demographics, so it wouldn't surprise me if originally they meant for it to be an underworld set but when the first struggles started they dove into scraps of design from the past and just threw a set together from there.
Maro talked about this and said that 2 sets was the original plan, but they wanted to show off the new lack of a block system after spending 3 sets on ravnica and visit 4 worlds in one year, something that hasn't bee done in magic yet.
In a sense, the Copy of a Copy facet of Beyond Death does map nicely onto a different aspect of Greek Myth - the tendency of the Romans to produce what was a kind of fanfic. Virgil's Aeneid is the Beyond Death of epic poetry...
I have played a lot limited of this set and have loved every minute of it, so to hear a less than perfect review of it from you was a surprise. In the end though, I think you are right. I wasn't around for the first Theros block and now I wish I had been. Thank you for reminding me that there is so much more to love about this game than the game itself.
Having been around for original, I would say that Theros: Beyond Death is much better as a set. The limited environment is more fun, and the cards in general are more powerful and relevant than most were in the original three sets. Unfortunately, barring a few key cards that were very powerful in the original Theros block, most of the actual cards were received quite badly in terms of pure power level. Cards like the Grey Merchant became well known because they were the key break-out cards from a block that was considered quite weak. Thematically, I think that Rhystic Studies argues well that the original block was much more innovative and interesting than the return. However, I think that as a set, speaking specifically about the cards and their interactions with the Standard meta, Theros: Beyond Death is a better set than any of the previous three, and could be argued to have been better than the entire previous Theros block. I also think that Rhystic Studies is being a bit too hard on Theros as well. In general, returning to a previous plane is a tricky bargain because you both have to hit what people liked about the original visit, and do something new and interesting with it. This is especially hard in a top-down set that exists as a reference to a specific mythology or literary trope. In Theros's case, the original block hit so many myths that it would be really hard to do more of them, since Greek mythology is a self-contained subject and there aren't more myths coming out; once you've hit them all, there aren't any more to do. Now, there definitely were more myths they could have done, which is why I don't fully disagree with Rhystic Studies, but I think overall that Theros: Beyond Death does an acceptable job at returning to Theros. The other thing I would say is that the very nature of Theros itself makes dramatic changes less likely. The five main gods of Theros are embodiments of their color alignment, and their unchanging nature is a major part of the plane's lore. In fact, it is precisely this point that prompted this return, as Heliod killed Elspeth because, needed or not, she had introduced a massive change in Nyx, a realm which was supposed to stay static. Klothys, God of Destiny, from the new set, is also a living embodiment of this concept, as she exists to ensure that the order of the Underworld is not disturbed: in other words, to prevent large-scale changes to the metaphysical reality of Theros and Nyx as happened at the end of Journey Into Nyx when Elspeth killed Xenagos, and as Elspeth plans to do a second time by escaping the Underworld without becoming a Returned. So from that perspective, you could argue (as I am) that making too many changes is antithetical to Theros as a plane. It's a place where the order of the world is memorialized, and any change to that order is seen by its gods as a bad thing. This was true in the first block, with Xenagos's ascension being considered a plane-threatening disaster, and it is still true in Theros: Beyond Death. I would specifically counter Rhystic Studies's point by saying that before Theros was created, Theros was an idea for an MTG pastiche of Greek mythology, but that now that Theros exists, it is a functioning plane in the multiverse with its own rules grounding it aside from just its status as a pastiche. I would agree that Theros: Beyond Death is a worse pastiche of Greek mythology than the original block was, in much the same was as modern high-budget remakes of old classic pastiches usually are, but I think it does a reasonably good job of being an addition to Theros as an existing plane. I think that dramatically altering the status quo of Theros is a great idea, but it would be a fundamental, world-altering change akin to loosing the Eldrazi upon Zendikar. The functioning order of Theros as both a set and a physical/metaphysical place would have to be completely upended. And again, I think that's a great idea, and could result in some seriously interesting cards and a very cool story that doesn't just pastiche ancient stories, but also examines them and helps players look at them in a new light. However, I think that a single set would be way too short for that kind of thing. You'd need at least two sets, but probably a full three, showing the dissolution of the old Theros, the chaotic in-between period as it struggles to become something new while keeping elements of its old nature, and finally the new thing that Theros evolves into. I think that this is a fantastic idea for a three-set saga, but for a singleton set whose point was to reintroduce Elspeth and Ashiok while continuing the story of Theros, Theros: Beyond Death did a good, if not fantastic, job.
I don't think you're crazy to enjoy the Limited of Theros: Beyond Death. To my taste it is assuredly deeper and more fun to play overall than any combination of sets from the first Theros block.
This is an art channel. He rarely references the quality of the game play and mechanics. He's simply talking about the artist merits of the 2 sets. You can still enjoy all the art from the original block without playing with them. I never played theros either but I hear it was one of the least enjoyable blocks of the last decade, in terms of gameplay.
While I think the overall quality of this video is remarkable as always, I have to disagree with most of your premise. I love Theros: Beyond Death because I think it succeeded in capturing what we all loved about original Theros while still bringing new ideas to the table. It was cool and fun to see the little references to the old art and cards, the returns of fan-favorite mechanics like devotion, etc. I think this video and my opinion simply represent different philosophical approaches to the idea of returning to an old plane. In my opinion, not every Magic set has to be focused on taking huge risks and exploring totally new design space. Sometimes the point of a return is that you just miss the world and want to play around in it again. No, it's never going to be able to recapture the nostalgia perfectly, but that just means you get to have a new experience while still feeling like you're reliving an element of Magic's past.
I can dig it. there are so many little elements I love about TBD, as with all new magic sets and worlds, and Theros is still very much among my favorite planes. I took a holistic approach here to give some bird's-eye observations, but I agree that it can nonetheless be enjoyable to visit a familiar place. cheers, thanks for responding.
Rhystic Studies Also thank you for not going “EWWW YOUR OPINION IS WRONG.” Or some other dumb fallacy. Someone countered your point? You take it like a champ. BTW I agree. Theros inspired me to write fantasy/sci fi. And TBD was more of a disappointment then War of the Spark. ...which I never thought i would say back to back but whatever.
I agree. I totally understand feeling like the second go around not being as special because of the existence of the original, but I find it really hard to agree with the concept that "when you copy a copy there is a tangible loss of quality". I don't think for example Frankenstein movies are any less worthwhile because the book they are based on is itself heavily based on several other classic stories. I definitely agree that maybe centering the block only in the underworld would have been a really novel and interesting way to take this block, but asking a return to Theros block to not touch on at least some of what people liked about the original block is a really hard sell.
It is a fascinating thing to consider returning to a plane in magic if you really consider it. If you want to take risks with a block, you have only to look at what happened with Zendikar block and Battle for Zendikar block as to why there may be apprehensions towards trying something new. The latter block itself was not necessarily great or received overly well, but sold well due to bling that came with the set. What folks loved and remembered fondly about Zendikar was not the Eldrazi, but the exploration and adventure of a new world. It felt like it could be a Dungeons and Dragons campaign. When we returned, the heavy focus on the Eldrazi as a mechanism to further along the story took such heavy precedence over the plane itself (not to mention how much they were playing into the Avengers and Super Hero team hype of the day) that what folks loved was lost in something that felt very alien in often the best of circumstances. Perhaps this was the point. If it was, it showed what folks loved about Zendikar. We retreaded old territory in Theros because they are comfortable, and they tend to sell very well. It is not innovative, nor does it try to be anything more than nostalgia. There is another saying from a more modern era: "You can never go home again." and maybe this fits for Theros. You could even apply this to Hollywoods love affair with remakes and reboots. You can continue to add to a franchise, or reboot it, but the wonder and awe of seeing something for the first time can never be recaptured. Does this mean that going back to the familiar is bad? Not necessarily. Does this mean that innovation and exploring new ideas is always well recieved? Not Necessarily. Invoking the phrase I referenced earlier, you have to realize that when you go back to something you loved, hated, or were indifferent to; it often never changes, but you do and your experience with it will always be a part of you.
I think that what hurts the most is to see MTG being pushed away from a work of love into a money maker for the corporate heads. Just throw the players a bone in the form of a half-assed return set with some spicy new cards and keep the ball rolling.
all i have heard and read about the second return to zendikar tells me they bet on the "world of exploration and adventure" side of things. But wasnt that the same feel that Eldraine capitalized on?
@@goncaloferreira6429 We'll see. I don't know how you go from being the apocalypse plane back to the adventure plane, when we now have another plane which, imo, already captures a lot of the adventure/exploration feel that Zendikar lost in Ixalan. (Though, who knows, maybe if we return to Ixalan, it'll be the "colonial resistance" plane or something. It would be cathartic for many people around the world, I think, to have the Sun Empire and merfolk successfully resist the colonial ambitions of the vampires and kick them and the pirates off the continent.)
@@goncaloferreira6429 - Eldraine is designed top-down as a Arthurian legend and fairy-tale set. Zendikar is a bottom-up design focusing on D&D-like "adventurer" and exploration mechanics with equipment upgrades and characters leveling up or forming adventuring parties (Allies). I second Ford Mulligan's concern though - the original Zendikar and Worldwake were largely centered around discovery and a hint of mystery. What was the deal with the gods, Ula, Cosi, and Emeria? Where did they go? Who were the Eldrazi referred to in Eldrazi Monument? What was the deal with Eye of Ugin - helps cast artifact creatures? Those are the only colorless creatures, after all, are Eldrazi mechanical like Phyrexians? There was lot we knew we didn't know, which I think is what helped make it so appealing. Then they ran into the classic horror trope: "don't show the monster". Once we knew that the Eldrazi were eldritch horror monstrosities the people of the plane had mistaken as gods, the allure of mystery was gone. They didn't really play into the "unimaginable horror" thing much either, as we could clearly see them in the card art. So what's the mystery now? The world has essentially been razed, the Eldrazi destroyed everything the Roil didn't, so what long-lost dungeons are there left to crawl? It'll be interesting to see where they go with the story, I hope they can come up with something completely new lore-wise while harkening back to the original mechanics. This is D&D land, after all.
I've never played magic, this channel was recommended to me one day, and I've been a huge fan ever since. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it right.
The little reference to Macintosh Plus with the outro music was such a nice touch at the end there, to choose a genre based within the sampling of music of bygone decades, while rehashing Greek busts to develop its aesthetic is such a perfect touch to end the video, very well thematically linked.
At least as far as Gray Merchant goes, it kinda falls into that trap of, "what to do with magic as a game," and, "What to do with the planes as story." People want to play with it and use is, so it gets reprints so people can use it. Unlike a lot of other cards, though, The name makes it difficult to fit into non Theros planes, so it ends up being printed back into Theros. It's funny how the shock lands of Ravnica avoid the problems Gary does, even if their need for constant reprinting is significantly greater. Unlike Gary, who just got art to match the 2020 Art direction, the shock lands at least have the benefit of changing to match the situation of the new planes. The overgrown Tomb of GRN is not the same as the one in the RTR or Ravnica blocks; it says different things about the setting, even if they're the same card mechanically.
I don't even slightly understand what the supposed "problem" with Gary is. Reprinting one of if not the most beloved cards from the original block (definitely much more than a mere "cult classic") is a no-brainer if you want people to love your set.
I see the reprint of Gary and shock lands are completely different. We need shock lands for a greedy mana base of a block like ravnica, but they cloud build a better devotion card than Gary, it's like reprinting Bob just because it's ravnica, or to put in a gameplay perspective repri thing the same Niv mizzet reborn that was printed last year, not a new version like the gods or Niv himself, just the good 5c legendary dragon again
Alex Vinicus Now see if they printed an homage to Grey Merchant, people would be upset. You have all these other obvious parallels, but amid all of them Grey Merchant remains unchanged (other than rarity). I think it's probably one of the things they got right with the set, but most of the other self-referential content just seems to be a rush job/extra pressure from Chinese overlords.
I would absolutely agree. Theros: beyond death has some very interesting cards, and i enjoy the mechanics that were introduced. But from a lore perspective, they devolped some of the characters. But the world itself saw little change.
I'm currently running a tabletop rpg RuneQuest campaign for some friends set in the neolithic. They're currently on what's a fictional equivalent of Cyprus. I've lately ran into an artistic block, and I found myself unable to develop some of the elements of the story. Your videos, as they always had, bring back the inspiration I need to put myself to work again, they remind me of the beauty and art that this game has and how I can use those elements to bring the world to life. Heck, one of the most important antagonists they met just a few sessions ago was the original Mold Demon. Love your videos, and will always return to them for inspiration and guidance. They always brighten my day.
I understand your point, and I agree that some authenticity is lost. However, I am a new player. I never played the old Theros block, but I saw the mechanics and wished I could have. When I heard they would return to the plane, I was hoping for exactly this: an introduction and a continuation at the same time. I was welcomed into a new world, yet made aware that it was a world that had already existed before my arrival. Because there are so many new players who, like me, never experienced the lore of the worlds before, I think this was an excellent history lesson that also concluded a cliffhanger story.
When I think of Greek myths, I go back to the big hardcover children's books sold at the book fair. There is a nostalgic feeling that lines up so clearly to me involving the first time I actually wanted to read something, as opposed to it being forced on me. It was about ancient myths, and the various gods and monsters of mythology. Discussing Greek mythology takes me back to that musty elementary school library.
I'm a little upset you didn't mention that the tapestry in The Akroan War is another reference not just to Greek culture, but specifically to Odysseus' wife, Penelope, and her weaving and re-weaving a tapestry in a gambit to stave off the suitors while she awaits Odysseus' return from the Trojan War.
I fully agree, it would have been a much better set if we had stayed in the afterlife the whole time. Innistrad's return was great because it took gothic horror and turned it into eldritch horror, it didn't feel so much like the same place that Theros does.
Counterpoint: A friend of mine DESPISES Eldritch Moon. Innistrad had been by far his favorite plane for years, and he hated what was done to it in that set. Radical reinventions may sound like a universally good idea to those who prize novelty over all else, but that doesn't mean it's actually the correct decision in all circumstances. The fact that when we went back to Theros we went back to Theros is a feature, not a bug.
@@Izandaia Innistrad was not radically reinvented. Eldritch horror was basically the final climax of Gothic horror; consider how much Lovecraft, who basically single-handedly invented Eldritch horror, was inspired by the works of Poe, and how much his early work mirrored the themes of Gothic horror. Not only was Eldritch Moon not a radical reinvention to Innistrad, it was in fact the logical culmination of everything Innistrad is and was, and if you look closely, Shadows and Eldritch Moon do the same for Eldritch horror that original Innistrad did for Gothic horror, there's homages to all the tropes and well-known stories just like original Innistrad had homages to all your typical Gothic horror tales. The only problem I have with Eldritch Moon is that there should have been a slower climax. Maybe just one other set; basically a "Call of Emrakul" in between Shadows and Eldritch Moon, so that the suspense of the coming apocalypse could have been used better and the themes could have been fully utilized.
Tacklepig Yeah, like a Shadows over Innsmouth style set that focuses more on the cultists and fear the eldrazi invoke as an unknown foe, rather than one set that is all about the mystery of the eldrazi and the next set being full on assault of Eldritch horror. I would've liked to see the changes to the landscape made by abandoned farmsteads and villages razed to the ground by the inquisition as the fear level rises. Maybe some cards could have referenced the original gothic horror with a small twist to it, the sense of something else lurking in the shadows rather than the monsters we know. This would have made people slowly adapt to the whole Eldrazi invasion and adapt to the idea of Innistrad going from classical gothic horror to Eldritch horror.
@@Tacklepig This is yet another consequence of the ill-conceived Large-small block model. There just wasn't enough space in one large and one small set for it, so we ended up only getting the beginning set-up of a full arc and the big climax, without something to bridge us between those story beats in a satisfying way. Under the old model, where Eldritch Moon could be made as a large set in spring with your "Call of Emrakul" as a small winter set, we could have SOI as is, and have more build up. Alternatively, under the current flexible block model, EMN would have been a large set, which would make space to move some of the self-contained top-down designs from SOI into EMN to make room for the cultist theme in both to serve as our bridge.
"That is Green's territory, and by extension belongs to the god Nylea" he says, as Dictate of Karametra appears onscreen. (I kid, but fantastic video as always)
I think what is meant to be shown there is that even though Both Dictate and Blessing of Karametra (Both are shown in the same image) are the blessings of a White-Green God when they are in the trees of the forest it is a mono-green spell. Kinda the idea that the landscape where the individual is has more powerful than the god themselves.
Boy, that was one artistic way to say the original was better. But in all seriousness, great job on this art and video.I love how much the eerie similarities reappear between the cards thanks to the same artists doing similar cards.
“What do you know of Greek Myth?” For myself and many others of my generation I think it conjures up two words from deep in our minds, our memories: Percy Jackson.
theros is my favourite block probably edit after watching: I think I do agree with you. When Theros Beyond Death was revealed, I literally jumped out of my chair and I've never been so hyped about anything before then. but when I actually saw the full card list eventually, I was kinda dissapointed, I was thinking "wait, this card is just this old card I once knew, and wait this is just this one, why didn't they just reprint the old cards?" and that while I was hoping to see more of the underworld, and instead we just got more of the same old overworld. which was a nice throwback, but nothing new, really.
Something important to realize about Greek myth is that The Mythical was not contemporary for the Greeks. In these stories, all the Heroes and Monsters and Gods coming down to Earth all happened in the "Heroic Age" which for them was in some impossibly distant past; similar in a lot of ways to how they feel for us today.
Wow, that encapsulates exactly why I was underwhelmed by THB and I didn't know why consciously myself (well of course besides the complete lack of written story following the War of the Spark: Forsaken disaster)
The end with the reimagination/cover of a reimagination/cover with just a tiny bit of greek it’s just Perfect, thank you so much for this video, made me incredibly happy in this strage days.
Funny how ... in an episode that at its core is about the question of self-referencing you start and end on the same quote. A quote from Homer whos authorship of The Odyssey is questioned as some believe him to be just an editor of previously told stories. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and mark it down as being cheeky and an easter egg ;)
God Damn. I'm getting vicarious satisfaction just imagining of the moment you think: "Yep, this is ready to upload." The deep breath and relaxed exhale, the sip of now-lukewarm coffee, and the careful double-checking of correct file. Somehow, through the quality of your work alone; I am inspired and urged to learn how to do this myself, if only to earn honestly that satisfaction I mentioned.
I made a Greek setting for my current D&D campaign, and when Theros was coming back, I wanted to relook to it for inspiration, but I didn't find anything new. This video has a very solid point in that regard- it's a remake, not a sequel.
I thought of this video when writing a paper for my film study class in college. I wanted to reference the opening quote from Homer but I couldn’t remember the exact wording. However, what I’m more amazed by is the fact I thought this was a recent upload from the channel. Finding out this is already two years old blew me away for a moment. I am left stunned.
Normally, I'm perfectly fine with "the same thing, but again" in Magic sets since I always build decks set entirely in one world and having more cards from that world (like when they show up in Core Sets) increases the possibilities of what one can build. But I must admit that I was a little disappointed in the Theros sequel. Don't get me wrong: I'm happy to, for example, see Iroas' worshippers & creations get more material (since he was fighting for space with the nation of Akros, it was slim pickings beforehand). But the original Theros had this neat evolution in mechanics and flavor over the course of the block from "mortals are empowered by the gods to accomplish their feats" at the beginning to "mortals can empower themselves with their Strive spells in order to fight the gods' Constellation creatures" at the end. The idea of these faithful, fearful servants rising up to topple their tyrants was really interesting, and I was sad to see the reset button applied to wipe away this conflict and depict the world, once again, just how the first set did.
Honestly you just knock it out the park with every video you produce. The tone, colours, editing, content and just everything is done so well. I love your videos, please keep making them!
This video really sums up my problem with it. I used to proudly declare Theros as my favorite plane and eagerly awaited the Return To. "Trust me guys, they'll fix constellation this time! Sword and sandals, here we come!" Boy did I eat those words. They dropped the ball so hard I didn't even crack one pack and I'm quietly on team Innistrad now - until they fuck that one up too later this year.
I am consistently satisfied every time I watch one of your videos. The mixing of your inherent talent, calm and calculated voice, and acquired skill make these some of my favorite videos to watch intently upon my first viewing and then listen to in the background when I work on something that's related to the game. Keep thinking outside the booster box.
What a fantastic video essay. It is so well written, so well thought out and done. The end gave me chills, referring back to the very beginning with a nw better understanding of how you meant it. Astonishing work. Thank you
What a great video essay; as always the moment I saw this video on my homepage I stopped all I was doing and watched the whole thing. The way you talk and present the topics are a pure pleasure. So well researched and the information is presented in such a beautiful way visually and audibly. I know everyone asks for more all the time, but I feel your videos are so well done because you become inspired to do a video on a certain topic that you delve into out of personal interest. I just wanted to give my personal appreciation for your videos. Cheers mate.
Sam, you're videos are all fantastic. You give a voice to the emotional connection I feel to art, and your words help me to really internalize what it is about art that mystifies me. While I enjoy the cards for the exciting game, the real attraction for me has always been the illustrations. Thank you for loving it as much as I do, and thank you for helping me to understand why I love it.
I'd just like to say i've been here since you were the magic man sam, and you're honestly my favorite youtuber to just listen to and watch. I've seen everyone of your video's twice because your videos are something that I can just put on and watch at anytime. Along with watching every video that comes out asap. keep it up.
Lucent Liminid was one of three cards that I got from my brother when he opened a pack of future sight like ten years ago. Seeing it in this video really made me realize that maybe that’s why theros is one of my favorite blocks
As a fan of original Theros, this is one of my favorite video you made. Not as iconic as bolt or siege rhino, but right in my personal enjoyment of the game.
An absolute gorgeous and educational video. You do this game proud and I cant thank you enough for allowing me to see the beauty in the art and giving me a happy cry. Thank you.
Hundred-Handed One is one of my favorite cards, and after learning what a Hecatonchires is, the flavor and function of the card create a more distinct piece. He can block a hundred creatures, one for each hand, and you can't catch him off-guard in most cases (vigilance). Sure, the card is terrible, but he's pretty spicy.
While it takes half a millennia, I thoroughly enjoy all of your content. It’s so polished and pristine, if I ever decide to make video essays, I hope mine can one day live up to this quality.
My favorite mtg channel by far. This video was awesome, you found a certain amount of displeasure in the new set but instead of bickering and complaining you not only told us why but showed us. You didn't tell anyone they couldn't enjoy the set or that it was bad, just not what you had hoped, and so eloquently done. Amazing video can't wait for the next one! A side note being in the underworld for a majority of this set would have been awesome, I hadn't even seen those basics yet. They hint at a story that I hope we get to see if we go back.
Fantastic video as always! I wanted to point out a little subtle Homeric reference hidden in art for The Akroan War. The Akroan War is, of course, a reference to the Trojan War. In the Odyssey, Odysseus' wife Penelope faithfully waits for his return after the Trojan War for 20 years. During this period, she must stave off many suitors who implore her to accept her husband as dead and take them in marriage instead. She devises many little plots and tricks to deter them including "insist[ing] that [her suitors] wait until she has woven a shroud for Laertes, father of Odysseus. Every night for three years, until one of her maids reveals the secret, she unravels the piece that she has woven by day so that she will not have to give up hope for the return of her beloved husband and remarry." If you look closely at the art for The Akroan War, you will see that the tapestry being woven is incomplete or unfinished right before it's final chapter. Pretty sure this is a reference to Penelope's guile. www.britannica.com/topic/Penelope-Greek-mythology
I probably only really liked this set then since I kinda am in and out in sets and the fact that I completely missed the first set in theros, so I thought this was pretty neat.
I almost wonder if WOTC heard the criticism of "too much changed about Zendikar/Innistrad/Ravnica, they don't read like their former selves anymore" and decided with this set to go hard the other way. Just play the hits, no need to change. That's why I think that bittersweet nostalgia feeling you mentioned rings so hard in this set. It's been over 10 years in real life time, but almost nothing in Theros has actually changed. Unlike Innistrad, which I think did the best job of taking cards from the original, putting a twist on them and shifting them from gothic horror to cosmic horror with the Eldrazi, everything in Theros has just kinda...stayed the same. It feels like we're only here because People Like Theros and we wanted to see Elspeth's story continue instead of end in tragedy which.... isn't that kinda the point? Great job putting into words a feeling I couldn't quite describe, and thank you for your content.
You have been the first person that has encapsulate my feelings on this set. I never liked it as I felt it never went to place that the original set went. People called me a hater but now your video sumed up my feeling.
Once again i sant in awe of your talent, dedication and mind. You are by far the best content creator i watch in this platform and your content goes beyond me liking mtg, its a masterpiece in its own right. A journey into analisis and knowledge.
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I'm really really enjoying your essays on the various cultures in the MTG various planes and their influence and, as a matter of fact, enjoy all the video essays you do on MTG, so please don't stop.
Nice to see that I wasn’t the only one who was a bit disappointed by TBD. Somehow, it was really hard to put my finger on why I wasn’t as excited by the set as I wanted to be, but this video does a great job of pinpointing how it falls short. It felt solid in every way, yet somehow lackluster.
I think Theros is a difficult plane to return to in general. Due to the fact that its story, art, and even mechanics are so closely tied to real-world mythology, there is a finite amount of material available for the designers to use as a reference for their game. For example, you can only retell the story of Icarus so many times (and I'd say the two times that they have has been enough). Unless the next Theros set includes designers' original interpretations/stories of these characters and events already so deeply established in both Greek mythology and now already-printed cards, there will never be a way to keep Theros' impact from diminishing each time we visit it. But if future cards start to tell/reference stories and events dissimilar to what both the ancient Greeks and original cards told, Theros will likely lose its top-down design and become like any other plane original to Magic (even if that's not objectively a bad outcome). We've already seen this with the current original story on Theros: the focus on Elspeth's tribulations on the plane. But hey, it's just a theory.
This was fantastic, like all your work, beautifully stated. Exactly why most of us long term magic players feel like the game has lost its soul, it's just like the film industry throwing out the old recycled hits
This might be the first time I don't agree with you on something. This is just my opinion of course : When talking about Theros, we encounter different types of people, but the two I see the most are : -The ones who love Greek mythology and want to see references to that in the card -The ones who hate worlds that are too inspired by real life stuff and therefore hate some amount of cards in Theros. For my part, I really don't like "copy/pastes" of real life into Magic. When I first saw Alirios, enraptured, I thought "Yeah, this is Narcissus, and this is a very nice way to showcase this story into gameplay. But that's not Magic". One of my friends hates Theros because some gods are just Greek gods, with very little modifications. But I've also noticed that I love Theros, and Innistrad too, and both are heavily inspired by real life. But when I try to see what I love in these, I see that I love the story in general, how the characters interact with each others, and usually the characters I like the most are not the ones inspired by real life, unless I can really relate to them. In Theros, my favorite god is Kruphix, and that's for a lot of reasons, one of them being that he feels unique. I know he might be inspired by multiple greek gods, yet this is not copy/paste. He fulfills a role in the Theros story and universe before all else. When reading the books, I didn't care if Purphoros was mostly Hephaestus. I loved his relationship with Kruphix, Heliod, Thassa. But that's because I managed to deactivate my brain and avoid thinking about greek mythology. However, not everybody is able to do so. So when we went back to Theros, I liked it. It was in fact a reference to Theros, not to greek mythology, and that's fine. At least it would be fine if the story was not so poor and the universe was a little bit more developed. I feel like a lot of people started to love Theros over pure greek mythology, perhaps because they are familiar with this world. I think this "remake" being a reference to Theros itself is not only fine, but also a good idea, because that's when they should have expanded Theros the same way they used greek mythology as a basis to create this great plane.
While I definitely see some areas where they hewed too closely to the last time (the gods in particular really don't stand out from their prior version), bringing Gary back was probably the boldest and most surprising thing they did. Bringing a powerful, fan favorite card back so you can relive old glory, or taste it for the first time, was a great move. It's the same as that cheeky flavor text when they brought Lightning Bolt back; unexpected but a love letter to everything that makes this game great.
I really liked this. I understand why it can take so long for a new video to come out now. I thought tbd was a good set. But it takes an extremely well polished essay to convince me, and even have me agreeing with it that I was wrong. Last time was so beautiful, and the quote at the end me me tearing up
“What do you know of Greek Myth?” In my case school and PC game came to my mind in response to the question. In my country middle school history class cover ancient civilizations and some mythology, at the same time I was attending those, Age of Mythology cames out. Both caught my interest and as I was a nerd in no time I was knowing way more on Greek, Roman, Norse and Egypt mythology than your typical kid.
This is the most eloquent shade I have ever seen thrown.
I know right?
Comes second only to “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve”.
Someone @me when it hits 666
@@kiwiwasoncehere3623 got it just for u bb xoxo
@@kiwiwasoncehere3623 sup
"I'm not mad, just disappointed" the video.
“What do you know of Greek Myth?”
Three words for you, my friend: Xena Warrior Princess.
*slow claps*
This one should be pinned.
A man of culture I see - even more than was already apparent!
I believe you spelled "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys" wrong. :>
Percy Jackson anyone?
plebs be plebs
I’d like to take a moment to appreciate the outro music in this video. It’s totally recognizable now as “Floral Shoppe” by Macintosh Plus. it itself isn’t quite a “pastiche,” but a “remake” in a way of “It’s Your Move” by Diana Ross (played/arranged beautifully btw). I see what you did there rhystic.
I'm so glad you caught on.
the album is called Floral Shoppe, the track itself is "リサフランク420 / 現代のコンピュー" (or "Lisa Frank 420 / Modern Computing")
I second that emotion.
An aesthetic reference of an a e s t h e t i c remake :P
I do think it presents an interesting thought though - as someone who enjoys both classical music and the gaudy memery of vaporwave, the piano rendition is actually quite nice, and is something that wouldn't be the same or carry the same weight if it was just a piano cover of the original song.
I've quite liked what I've played from Theros, it's mechanically interesting and the draft environment is quite good. I don't disagree with the video either though, as I missed the first Theros block so all the rehashes and fairly substantial retreaded ground is still new to me.
That was the cherry on top of an already excellent video.
I've waited patiently for this triumphant return.
And wait again we shall.
And wait again we have.
@@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149 and now we're waiting again
@@justabeholder4753 _The cycle continues..._
Do you know why he left?
yeah, i think seeing more of the underworld in THB would've been good - it might've also been able to show us more of elspeth's journey, which feels extra missing in this set given the lack of a story supplement.
regardless, the self-referential in magic is very popular. for better or for worse, people LOVE the full-art nyxlands, and there would've been a ton of outrage if the five monocolor gods hadn't been in this set. people can barely get over the two titans not being a full cycle. if it's any consolation, the pastiche^2 effect that Return To sets have does give the newer audience (like myself!) the chance to experience things for the first time again. sure, we can look back at those cards again or play with them in eternal formats, but there wasn't any way for newbies such as myself to just go to the theros prerelease.
it's a give and take, as with a lot of things in this game. just ask the minotaur tribal lovers!
good video, sam. and it's good to see you back. hope you're keeping safe in this troubling times.
I'd be curious to see what it'd look like if WotC expanded on the titan and underworld aspects. They'd have to work to make it still feel like Theros, but also that we're exploring new parts and stories of the setting.
I'll throw in my voice as someone who LOVES the Nyx lands. I don't even slightly care that they don't depict plains, islands, etc. They're GORGEOUS.
Hahahaha I'm one of the Minotaur tribal lovers. Never leave home without my Neheb EDH ;]
I honestly agree with your comment but specifically with your point of newer players experiencing these things for the first time. I just started to play and learn about the big story of MTG during the first weeks of the War of the Spark release (Started playing/learn how to play about a month prior) and there are so many stories and sets that looked amazing to play, like the Inistrad blocks and the Phyrexian/Mirrodan sets. I was not happy about some specific things with the return to Theros, but because it was new for me and showed me many of the old themes and mechanics it became an overall enjoyably experience, and that also extends to this third visit to Ravnica with Guilds/Allegiance which is now one of my favorite plains.
I get that for the older players it can get boring to got to the same places, but it can be refreshing every once in a while. And new plains are totally good as well and needed to keep the game fresh and unique, I had fun with Eldraine and I hope to enjoy Ikoria. The return to Zendikar should be fun later in the year even if the Eldrazi are back, that could be a worthwhile experience learning wise. This aspect of having new players experience these older things is one of the main reasons I want some of the older plains/sets to return because I want to experience them (along with my playgroup/friends as well) but with new improvements/canges being welcome as not to just copy the original. The main one that I would want to return from what I have learned is Kamigawa, but any that have not been visited for a long time would be cool just for experiencing them.
Self-referential Magic is fine, and I'm glad we're at a point where we can recognise tropes within this game that we all share.
But self-referential cards are only good under 2 conditions:
A) If they come from a bottom-up design. We just had a return to Ravnica, and we're about to see a return to Zendikar. Magic came up with and created those worlds, so it feels more authentic for them to focus on those. To do anything else feels cheap.
B) If they're used in moderation. Again, we have a lot of returns to Magic's past recently (and we're expecting some from Commander Legends), so just seeing riffs feels like they can't come up with anything new or expand on the ideas they had before. This is only exacerbated by the clear directions they COULD have taken to expand their worldbuilding (with a larger focus on the "Old Gods" in Ravnica, or the Erstwhile, for example)
“What do you know of Greek Myth?”
Me: Finally, those years of learning Latin and ancient Greek are going to pay off.
ΟΠΠΑ!
Χα!
The new Theros set should've been and likely was initially conceptualized as the first set of a two set block, to introduce new players to the setting and remind old players of what the setting was like.
And then in the second set they should've explored the underworld; and it's that set which should've been called Theros: Beyond Death.
Experience-wise, I think, making 2 small sets would've been better than one. Generally I think it was a good move to abandon the Block structure, but here it would've been handy. Imagine this:
In the first set we are in the underworld. We explore the realm of death and the surreal landscape where dreams can become real. There we need a mechanic that symbolizes that, that creates tokens based on cards in your and for example. We see Elspeth as she tries to escape. And like Elspeth, we want to escape to see the world of Theros.
Then, in the second set, we finally escape - and so do a bunch of other creatures. We get the new Gods, we see them at war, we get to fight Polukranos and the Titans, Calix becomes a 'walker, etc.
The way it is right now, we see little about a war and we never spend any time in the underworld and that is a shame if you ask me.
Us, Vorthos, hardly matter to WoTC since we don't make them nearly as much money as the other demographics, so it wouldn't surprise me if originally they meant for it to be an underworld set but when the first struggles started they dove into scraps of design from the past and just threw a set together from there.
Maro talked about this and said that 2 sets was the original plan, but they wanted to show off the new lack of a block system after spending 3 sets on ravnica and visit 4 worlds in one year, something that hasn't bee done in magic yet.
@@jeffreydenenberg7101 They already showed it off with Dominaria and Eldraine tho
I come from the future! they did the same for Innistrad... ehmmm didn't work so well
In a sense, the Copy of a Copy facet of Beyond Death does map nicely onto a different aspect of Greek Myth - the tendency of the Romans to produce what was a kind of fanfic. Virgil's Aeneid is the Beyond Death of epic poetry...
Don't forget the Titanomachy.
@@LadyLunarSatine how is the titanomachy a Copy of a Copy ?
@@anblueboot5364the overthrow of cronus by zeus is nearly identitcal to the story of the overthrow of uranus by cronus
I have played a lot limited of this set and have loved every minute of it, so to hear a less than perfect review of it from you was a surprise. In the end though, I think you are right. I wasn't around for the first Theros block and now I wish I had been.
Thank you for reminding me that there is so much more to love about this game than the game itself.
Having been around for original, I would say that Theros: Beyond Death is much better as a set. The limited environment is more fun, and the cards in general are more powerful and relevant than most were in the original three sets. Unfortunately, barring a few key cards that were very powerful in the original Theros block, most of the actual cards were received quite badly in terms of pure power level. Cards like the Grey Merchant became well known because they were the key break-out cards from a block that was considered quite weak.
Thematically, I think that Rhystic Studies argues well that the original block was much more innovative and interesting than the return. However, I think that as a set, speaking specifically about the cards and their interactions with the Standard meta, Theros: Beyond Death is a better set than any of the previous three, and could be argued to have been better than the entire previous Theros block.
I also think that Rhystic Studies is being a bit too hard on Theros as well. In general, returning to a previous plane is a tricky bargain because you both have to hit what people liked about the original visit, and do something new and interesting with it. This is especially hard in a top-down set that exists as a reference to a specific mythology or literary trope. In Theros's case, the original block hit so many myths that it would be really hard to do more of them, since Greek mythology is a self-contained subject and there aren't more myths coming out; once you've hit them all, there aren't any more to do. Now, there definitely were more myths they could have done, which is why I don't fully disagree with Rhystic Studies, but I think overall that Theros: Beyond Death does an acceptable job at returning to Theros.
The other thing I would say is that the very nature of Theros itself makes dramatic changes less likely. The five main gods of Theros are embodiments of their color alignment, and their unchanging nature is a major part of the plane's lore. In fact, it is precisely this point that prompted this return, as Heliod killed Elspeth because, needed or not, she had introduced a massive change in Nyx, a realm which was supposed to stay static. Klothys, God of Destiny, from the new set, is also a living embodiment of this concept, as she exists to ensure that the order of the Underworld is not disturbed: in other words, to prevent large-scale changes to the metaphysical reality of Theros and Nyx as happened at the end of Journey Into Nyx when Elspeth killed Xenagos, and as Elspeth plans to do a second time by escaping the Underworld without becoming a Returned.
So from that perspective, you could argue (as I am) that making too many changes is antithetical to Theros as a plane. It's a place where the order of the world is memorialized, and any change to that order is seen by its gods as a bad thing. This was true in the first block, with Xenagos's ascension being considered a plane-threatening disaster, and it is still true in Theros: Beyond Death. I would specifically counter Rhystic Studies's point by saying that before Theros was created, Theros was an idea for an MTG pastiche of Greek mythology, but that now that Theros exists, it is a functioning plane in the multiverse with its own rules grounding it aside from just its status as a pastiche. I would agree that Theros: Beyond Death is a worse pastiche of Greek mythology than the original block was, in much the same was as modern high-budget remakes of old classic pastiches usually are, but I think it does a reasonably good job of being an addition to Theros as an existing plane.
I think that dramatically altering the status quo of Theros is a great idea, but it would be a fundamental, world-altering change akin to loosing the Eldrazi upon Zendikar. The functioning order of Theros as both a set and a physical/metaphysical place would have to be completely upended. And again, I think that's a great idea, and could result in some seriously interesting cards and a very cool story that doesn't just pastiche ancient stories, but also examines them and helps players look at them in a new light. However, I think that a single set would be way too short for that kind of thing. You'd need at least two sets, but probably a full three, showing the dissolution of the old Theros, the chaotic in-between period as it struggles to become something new while keeping elements of its old nature, and finally the new thing that Theros evolves into. I think that this is a fantastic idea for a three-set saga, but for a singleton set whose point was to reintroduce Elspeth and Ashiok while continuing the story of Theros, Theros: Beyond Death did a good, if not fantastic, job.
I don't think you're crazy to enjoy the Limited of Theros: Beyond Death. To my taste it is assuredly deeper and more fun to play overall than any combination of sets from the first Theros block.
This is an art channel. He rarely references the quality of the game play and mechanics. He's simply talking about the artist merits of the 2 sets. You can still enjoy all the art from the original block without playing with them. I never played theros either but I hear it was one of the least enjoyable blocks of the last decade, in terms of gameplay.
This was, perhaps, the most beautifully-worded insult I've ever had the pleasure of experiencing. Let me say, good job.
the consistant high quality of your videos never fail to brighten my day when they arrive
While I think the overall quality of this video is remarkable as always, I have to disagree with most of your premise. I love Theros: Beyond Death because I think it succeeded in capturing what we all loved about original Theros while still bringing new ideas to the table. It was cool and fun to see the little references to the old art and cards, the returns of fan-favorite mechanics like devotion, etc. I think this video and my opinion simply represent different philosophical approaches to the idea of returning to an old plane. In my opinion, not every Magic set has to be focused on taking huge risks and exploring totally new design space. Sometimes the point of a return is that you just miss the world and want to play around in it again. No, it's never going to be able to recapture the nostalgia perfectly, but that just means you get to have a new experience while still feeling like you're reliving an element of Magic's past.
I can dig it. there are so many little elements I love about TBD, as with all new magic sets and worlds, and Theros is still very much among my favorite planes. I took a holistic approach here to give some bird's-eye observations, but I agree that it can nonetheless be enjoyable to visit a familiar place. cheers, thanks for responding.
@@RhysticStudies Thank you for making such consistently great content!
Rhystic Studies Also thank you for not going “EWWW YOUR OPINION IS WRONG.” Or some other dumb fallacy. Someone countered your point? You take it like a champ.
BTW I agree. Theros inspired me to write fantasy/sci fi.
And TBD was more of a disappointment then War of the Spark.
...which I never thought i would say back to back but whatever.
I agree. I totally understand feeling like the second go around not being as special because of the existence of the original, but I find it really hard to agree with the concept that "when you copy a copy there is a tangible loss of quality". I don't think for example Frankenstein movies are any less worthwhile because the book they are based on is itself heavily based on several other classic stories. I definitely agree that maybe centering the block only in the underworld would have been a really novel and interesting way to take this block, but asking a return to Theros block to not touch on at least some of what people liked about the original block is a really hard sell.
It is a fascinating thing to consider returning to a plane in magic if you really consider it.
If you want to take risks with a block, you have only to look at what happened with Zendikar block and Battle for Zendikar block as to why there may be apprehensions towards trying something new. The latter block itself was not necessarily great or received overly well, but sold well due to bling that came with the set. What folks loved and remembered fondly about Zendikar was not the Eldrazi, but the exploration and adventure of a new world. It felt like it could be a Dungeons and Dragons campaign. When we returned, the heavy focus on the Eldrazi as a mechanism to further along the story took such heavy precedence over the plane itself (not to mention how much they were playing into the Avengers and Super Hero team hype of the day) that what folks loved was lost in something that felt very alien in often the best of circumstances. Perhaps this was the point. If it was, it showed what folks loved about Zendikar.
We retreaded old territory in Theros because they are comfortable, and they tend to sell very well. It is not innovative, nor does it try to be anything more than nostalgia. There is another saying from a more modern era: "You can never go home again." and maybe this fits for Theros. You could even apply this to Hollywoods love affair with remakes and reboots. You can continue to add to a franchise, or reboot it, but the wonder and awe of seeing something for the first time can never be recaptured. Does this mean that going back to the familiar is bad? Not necessarily. Does this mean that innovation and exploring new ideas is always well recieved? Not Necessarily. Invoking the phrase I referenced earlier, you have to realize that when you go back to something you loved, hated, or were indifferent to; it often never changes, but you do and your experience with it will always be a part of you.
I think that what hurts the most is to see MTG being pushed away from a work of love into a money maker for the corporate heads. Just throw the players a bone in the form of a half-assed return set with some spicy new cards and keep the ball rolling.
all i have heard and read about the second return to zendikar tells me they bet on the "world of exploration and adventure" side of things. But wasnt that the same feel that Eldraine capitalized on?
@@goncaloferreira6429 We'll see. I don't know how you go from being the apocalypse plane back to the adventure plane, when we now have another plane which, imo, already captures a lot of the adventure/exploration feel that Zendikar lost in Ixalan. (Though, who knows, maybe if we return to Ixalan, it'll be the "colonial resistance" plane or something. It would be cathartic for many people around the world, I think, to have the Sun Empire and merfolk successfully resist the colonial ambitions of the vampires and kick them and the pirates off the continent.)
@@mrrodgers0 I mean, there can be multiple adventure planes. Ikoria, Zendikar and Ixalan are different enough.
@@goncaloferreira6429 - Eldraine is designed top-down as a Arthurian legend and fairy-tale set. Zendikar is a bottom-up design focusing on D&D-like "adventurer" and exploration mechanics with equipment upgrades and characters leveling up or forming adventuring parties (Allies).
I second Ford Mulligan's concern though - the original Zendikar and Worldwake were largely centered around discovery and a hint of mystery. What was the deal with the gods, Ula, Cosi, and Emeria? Where did they go? Who were the Eldrazi referred to in Eldrazi Monument? What was the deal with Eye of Ugin - helps cast artifact creatures? Those are the only colorless creatures, after all, are Eldrazi mechanical like Phyrexians? There was lot we knew we didn't know, which I think is what helped make it so appealing. Then they ran into the classic horror trope: "don't show the monster". Once we knew that the Eldrazi were eldritch horror monstrosities the people of the plane had mistaken as gods, the allure of mystery was gone. They didn't really play into the "unimaginable horror" thing much either, as we could clearly see them in the card art.
So what's the mystery now? The world has essentially been razed, the Eldrazi destroyed everything the Roil didn't, so what long-lost dungeons are there left to crawl? It'll be interesting to see where they go with the story, I hope they can come up with something completely new lore-wise while harkening back to the original mechanics. This is D&D land, after all.
I've never played magic, this channel was recommended to me one day, and I've been a huge fan ever since. Whatever you're doing, you're doing it right.
The little reference to Macintosh Plus with the outro music was such a nice touch at the end there, to choose a genre based within the sampling of music of bygone decades, while rehashing Greek busts to develop its aesthetic is such a perfect touch to end the video, very well thematically linked.
At least as far as Gray Merchant goes, it kinda falls into that trap of, "what to do with magic as a game," and, "What to do with the planes as story." People want to play with it and use is, so it gets reprints so people can use it. Unlike a lot of other cards, though, The name makes it difficult to fit into non Theros planes, so it ends up being printed back into Theros.
It's funny how the shock lands of Ravnica avoid the problems Gary does, even if their need for constant reprinting is significantly greater. Unlike Gary, who just got art to match the 2020 Art direction, the shock lands at least have the benefit of changing to match the situation of the new planes. The overgrown Tomb of GRN is not the same as the one in the RTR or Ravnica blocks; it says different things about the setting, even if they're the same card mechanically.
I think this is why bringing Core Sets back was a good idea - reprints, plus a facility to scratch little nostalgia itches.
I don't even slightly understand what the supposed "problem" with Gary is. Reprinting one of if not the most beloved cards from the original block (definitely much more than a mere "cult classic") is a no-brainer if you want people to love your set.
I see the reprint of Gary and shock lands are completely different. We need shock lands for a greedy mana base of a block like ravnica, but they cloud build a better devotion card than Gary, it's like reprinting Bob just because it's ravnica, or to put in a gameplay perspective repri thing the same Niv mizzet reborn that was printed last year, not a new version like the gods or Niv himself, just the good 5c legendary dragon again
Alex Vinicus Now see if they printed an homage to Grey Merchant, people would be upset. You have all these other obvious parallels, but amid all of them Grey Merchant remains unchanged (other than rarity). I think it's probably one of the things they got right with the set, but most of the other self-referential content just seems to be a rush job/extra pressure from Chinese overlords.
Everytime you release a video, I feel a compulsion to pull out all of my cards and stare at the artwork. Great job as usual!
"What do you know of Greek Myth?" *Thinks of Overly Sarcastic Productions*
Dont forget the PJ books!
Images of a badly dubbed Arnold Schwarzenegger running around New York as Hercules flash feverishly through my mind...
Aidan Quiett oh my god I thought I was the only one. I’ve been scrolling through this comment section for five minutes looking for a reference to it.
I would absolutely agree. Theros: beyond death has some very interesting cards, and i enjoy the mechanics that were introduced.
But from a lore perspective, they devolped some of the characters. But the world itself saw little change.
I'm currently running a tabletop rpg RuneQuest campaign for some friends set in the neolithic. They're currently on what's a fictional equivalent of Cyprus. I've lately ran into an artistic block, and I found myself unable to develop some of the elements of the story. Your videos, as they always had, bring back the inspiration I need to put myself to work again, they remind me of the beauty and art that this game has and how I can use those elements to bring the world to life.
Heck, one of the most important antagonists they met just a few sessions ago was the original Mold Demon.
Love your videos, and will always return to them for inspiration and guidance. They always brighten my day.
I understand your point, and I agree that some authenticity is lost. However, I am a new player. I never played the old Theros block, but I saw the mechanics and wished I could have. When I heard they would return to the plane, I was hoping for exactly this: an introduction and a continuation at the same time. I was welcomed into a new world, yet made aware that it was a world that had already existed before my arrival. Because there are so many new players who, like me, never experienced the lore of the worlds before, I think this was an excellent history lesson that also concluded a cliffhanger story.
I think we all needed this right now
Appreciate all the work you put into your videos. When Rhystic Studies drops a video I know it'll be quality.
I absolutely love Theros Beyond death and enjoyed the art and flavour tremendously, but I think you have a point well made.
When I think of Greek myths, I go back to the big hardcover children's books sold at the book fair. There is a nostalgic feeling that lines up so clearly to me involving the first time I actually wanted to read something, as opposed to it being forced on me. It was about ancient myths, and the various gods and monsters of mythology. Discussing Greek mythology takes me back to that musty elementary school library.
I'm a little upset you didn't mention that the tapestry in The Akroan War is another reference not just to Greek culture, but specifically to Odysseus' wife, Penelope, and her weaving and re-weaving a tapestry in a gambit to stave off the suitors while she awaits Odysseus' return from the Trojan War.
“What do you know of Greek Myth?”
Me picking up PJO books and MTG cards: “I’m ready.”
LMAO same
I fully agree, it would have been a much better set if we had stayed in the afterlife the whole time. Innistrad's return was great because it took gothic horror and turned it into eldritch horror, it didn't feel so much like the same place that Theros does.
Counterpoint: A friend of mine DESPISES Eldritch Moon. Innistrad had been by far his favorite plane for years, and he hated what was done to it in that set. Radical reinventions may sound like a universally good idea to those who prize novelty over all else, but that doesn't mean it's actually the correct decision in all circumstances. The fact that when we went back to Theros we went back to Theros is a feature, not a bug.
@@Izandaia Innistrad was not radically reinvented. Eldritch horror was basically the final climax of Gothic horror; consider how much Lovecraft, who basically single-handedly invented Eldritch horror, was inspired by the works of Poe, and how much his early work mirrored the themes of Gothic horror.
Not only was Eldritch Moon not a radical reinvention to Innistrad, it was in fact the logical culmination of everything Innistrad is and was, and if you look closely, Shadows and Eldritch Moon do the same for Eldritch horror that original Innistrad did for Gothic horror, there's homages to all the tropes and well-known stories just like original Innistrad had homages to all your typical Gothic horror tales.
The only problem I have with Eldritch Moon is that there should have been a slower climax. Maybe just one other set; basically a "Call of Emrakul" in between Shadows and Eldritch Moon, so that the suspense of the coming apocalypse could have been used better and the themes could have been fully utilized.
Tacklepig Yeah, like a Shadows over Innsmouth style set that focuses more on the cultists and fear the eldrazi invoke as an unknown foe, rather than one set that is all about the mystery of the eldrazi and the next set being full on assault of Eldritch horror. I would've liked to see the changes to the landscape made by abandoned farmsteads and villages razed to the ground by the inquisition as the fear level rises. Maybe some cards could have referenced the original gothic horror with a small twist to it, the sense of something else lurking in the shadows rather than the monsters we know. This would have made people slowly adapt to the whole Eldrazi invasion and adapt to the idea of Innistrad going from classical gothic horror to Eldritch horror.
@@Tacklepig This is yet another consequence of the ill-conceived Large-small block model. There just wasn't enough space in one large and one small set for it, so we ended up only getting the beginning set-up of a full arc and the big climax, without something to bridge us between those story beats in a satisfying way. Under the old model, where Eldritch Moon could be made as a large set in spring with your "Call of Emrakul" as a small winter set, we could have SOI as is, and have more build up. Alternatively, under the current flexible block model, EMN would have been a large set, which would make space to move some of the self-contained top-down designs from SOI into EMN to make room for the cultist theme in both to serve as our bridge.
"That is Green's territory, and by extension belongs to the god Nylea" he says, as Dictate of Karametra appears onscreen.
(I kid, but fantastic video as always)
I think what is meant to be shown there is that even though Both Dictate and Blessing of Karametra (Both are shown in the same image) are the blessings of a White-Green God when they are in the trees of the forest it is a mono-green spell. Kinda the idea that the landscape where the individual is has more powerful than the god themselves.
Boy, that was one artistic way to say the original was better.
But in all seriousness, great job on this art and video.I love how much the eerie similarities reappear between the cards thanks to the same artists doing similar cards.
I especially loved the art for “Basic Island 2” by Raoul Vitale in this plane
“What do you know of Greek Myth?” For myself and many others of my generation I think it conjures up two words from deep in our minds, our memories: Percy Jackson.
Exact same here, the series enraptured me in mythology, and Rick Riordans Magnus Chase series introduced me to my favorite mythology
theros is my favourite block probably
edit after watching: I think I do agree with you. When Theros Beyond Death was revealed, I literally jumped out of my chair and I've never been so hyped about anything before then.
but when I actually saw the full card list eventually, I was kinda dissapointed, I was thinking "wait, this card is just this old card I once knew, and wait this is just this one, why didn't they just reprint the old cards?" and that while I was hoping to see more of the underworld, and instead we just got more of the same old overworld. which was a nice throwback, but nothing new, really.
the world just got a little bit brighter
The lands are so gooooood, honestly the best part
Something important to realize about Greek myth is that The Mythical was not contemporary for the Greeks. In these stories, all the Heroes and Monsters and Gods coming down to Earth all happened in the "Heroic Age" which for them was in some impossibly distant past; similar in a lot of ways to how they feel for us today.
TH-cam is doing a horrible job promoting this video. Great stuff as always Sam!
Wow, that encapsulates exactly why I was underwhelmed by THB and I didn't know why consciously myself (well of course besides the complete lack of written story following the War of the Spark: Forsaken disaster)
The end with the reimagination/cover of a reimagination/cover with just a tiny bit of greek it’s just Perfect, thank you so much for this video, made me incredibly happy in this strage days.
Come back man... we miss you. I barely play magic now days but I still think about your videos all the time.
What a powerful closing statement. Dude I literally sat back in my seat and just... stared for a few seconds. Wonderful.
Funny how ... in an episode that at its core is about the question of self-referencing you start and end on the same quote. A quote from Homer whos authorship of The Odyssey is questioned as some believe him to be just an editor of previously told stories.
Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and mark it down as being cheeky and an easter egg ;)
"Homer" may have also been a collective name, with multiple people reciting the tales.
God Damn. I'm getting vicarious satisfaction just imagining of the moment you think: "Yep, this is ready to upload." The deep breath and relaxed exhale, the sip of now-lukewarm coffee, and the careful double-checking of correct file. Somehow, through the quality of your work alone; I am inspired and urged to learn how to do this myself, if only to earn honestly that satisfaction I mentioned.
I'm from Greece and I loved those magic sets with Greek mythology
I made a Greek setting for my current D&D campaign, and when Theros was coming back, I wanted to relook to it for inspiration, but I didn't find anything new. This video has a very solid point in that regard- it's a remake, not a sequel.
I thought of this video when writing a paper for my film study class in college. I wanted to reference the opening quote from Homer but I couldn’t remember the exact wording. However, what I’m more amazed by is the fact I thought this was a recent upload from the channel. Finding out this is already two years old blew me away for a moment. I am left stunned.
Just the kind of long form media we need for this season of physical distancing. Excellent work!
Dude, you always destroy these videos. Great work.
Normally, I'm perfectly fine with "the same thing, but again" in Magic sets since I always build decks set entirely in one world and having more cards from that world (like when they show up in Core Sets) increases the possibilities of what one can build. But I must admit that I was a little disappointed in the Theros sequel.
Don't get me wrong: I'm happy to, for example, see Iroas' worshippers & creations get more material (since he was fighting for space with the nation of Akros, it was slim pickings beforehand). But the original Theros had this neat evolution in mechanics and flavor over the course of the block from "mortals are empowered by the gods to accomplish their feats" at the beginning to "mortals can empower themselves with their Strive spells in order to fight the gods' Constellation creatures" at the end. The idea of these faithful, fearful servants rising up to topple their tyrants was really interesting, and I was sad to see the reset button applied to wipe away this conflict and depict the world, once again, just how the first set did.
Honestly you just knock it out the park with every video you produce. The tone, colours, editing, content and just everything is done so well. I love your videos, please keep making them!
This video really sums up my problem with it. I used to proudly declare Theros as my favorite plane and eagerly awaited the Return To. "Trust me guys, they'll fix constellation this time! Sword and sandals, here we come!" Boy did I eat those words. They dropped the ball so hard I didn't even crack one pack and I'm quietly on team Innistrad now - until they fuck that one up too later this year.
I am consistently satisfied every time I watch one of your videos. The mixing of your inherent talent, calm and calculated voice, and acquired skill make these some of my favorite videos to watch intently upon my first viewing and then listen to in the background when I work on something that's related to the game. Keep thinking outside the booster box.
The quality of these videos cannot be overstated.
I love the full art theros basics
What a fantastic video essay. It is so well written, so well thought out and done. The end gave me chills, referring back to the very beginning with a nw better understanding of how you meant it. Astonishing work. Thank you
Please do a video on innistrad. Its very beloved and I think it deserves its own love letter.
What a great video essay; as always the moment I saw this video on my homepage I stopped all I was doing and watched the whole thing. The way you talk and present the topics are a pure pleasure. So well researched and the information is presented in such a beautiful way visually and audibly. I know everyone asks for more all the time, but I feel your videos are so well done because you become inspired to do a video on a certain topic that you delve into out of personal interest. I just wanted to give my personal appreciation for your videos. Cheers mate.
Oh man, loved every second of this. So much nostalgia here: RhysticStudies videos, Greek mythology, OG Theros
Hey Rhystic! Where have you been man? I'm itching for some new content. Hope to see you back one day. Love your videos. Hope you're doing well.
You videos are my favourite video essays on TH-cam. I'm so glad you're still around, and so sad that TH-cam never told me about this video
I am SO glad you're back, you have an unique view on art, myth and their use in culture, which I greatly appreciate.
You put a much finer point on my feelings of "wow THB fell kinda flat compared to the first go-around..." Excellent as always.
This was an amazing video, the script and how you tie everything thematically together. Wow, just wow
Sam, you're videos are all fantastic. You give a voice to the emotional connection I feel to art, and your words help me to really internalize what it is about art that mystifies me. While I enjoy the cards for the exciting game, the real attraction for me has always been the illustrations. Thank you for loving it as much as I do, and thank you for helping me to understand why I love it.
The wait is over! Yessssssss....
I don't even want to watch it yet - I'll save this morsel for a rainy day...
I loved Theros, and I love Theros Beyond Death. Theros got me into Magic and to me, it feels like coming home.
This is my fav of your essays, its so beautifully built and wrapped
I'd just like to say i've been here since you were the magic man sam, and you're honestly my favorite youtuber to just listen to and watch. I've seen everyone of your video's twice because your videos are something that I can just put on and watch at anytime. Along with watching every video that comes out asap. keep it up.
Lucent Liminid was one of three cards that I got from my brother when he opened a pack of future sight like ten years ago. Seeing it in this video really made me realize that maybe that’s why theros is one of my favorite blocks
I'm new to magic, this was the first Theros set I've got to experience. But wow do I have respect for its history after watching this
As a fan of original Theros, this is one of my favorite video you made. Not as iconic as bolt or siege rhino, but right in my personal enjoyment of the game.
An absolute gorgeous and educational video. You do this game proud and I cant thank you enough for allowing me to see the beauty in the art and giving me a happy cry. Thank you.
Hundred-Handed One is one of my favorite cards, and after learning what a Hecatonchires is, the flavor and function of the card create a more distinct piece. He can block a hundred creatures, one for each hand, and you can't catch him off-guard in most cases (vigilance). Sure, the card is terrible, but he's pretty spicy.
The piano cover of flower shoppe at the end caught me off guard. What a perfectly thematic way to end this video.
Why is your content sooooo amazing? Every video you make is so informative while being entertaining as fuck
While it takes half a millennia, I thoroughly enjoy all of your content. It’s so polished and pristine, if I ever decide to make video essays, I hope mine can one day live up to this quality.
I have a much deeper interest and appreciation in the art of magic cards now.. thank you very much for this video!
My favorite mtg channel by far. This video was awesome, you found a certain amount of displeasure in the new set but instead of bickering and complaining you not only told us why but showed us. You didn't tell anyone they couldn't enjoy the set or that it was bad, just not what you had hoped, and so eloquently done. Amazing video can't wait for the next one!
A side note being in the underworld for a majority of this set would have been awesome, I hadn't even seen those basics yet. They hint at a story that I hope we get to see if we go back.
I see you're a man of culture as well. That outro was such a good choice. Floral shop is, and will always be iconic.
Fantastic video as always! I wanted to point out a little subtle Homeric reference hidden in art for The Akroan War. The Akroan War is, of course, a reference to the Trojan War. In the Odyssey, Odysseus' wife Penelope faithfully waits for his return after the Trojan War for 20 years. During this period, she must stave off many suitors who implore her to accept her husband as dead and take them in marriage instead. She devises many little plots and tricks to deter them including "insist[ing] that [her suitors] wait until she has woven a shroud for Laertes, father of Odysseus. Every night for three years, until one of her maids reveals the secret, she unravels the piece that she has woven by day so that she will not have to give up hope for the return of her beloved husband and remarry."
If you look closely at the art for The Akroan War, you will see that the tapestry being woven is incomplete or unfinished right before it's final chapter. Pretty sure this is a reference to Penelope's guile.
www.britannica.com/topic/Penelope-Greek-mythology
I probably only really liked this set then since I kinda am in and out in sets and the fact that I completely missed the first set in theros, so I thought this was pretty neat.
I almost wonder if WOTC heard the criticism of "too much changed about Zendikar/Innistrad/Ravnica, they don't read like their former selves anymore" and decided with this set to go hard the other way. Just play the hits, no need to change.
That's why I think that bittersweet nostalgia feeling you mentioned rings so hard in this set. It's been over 10 years in real life time, but almost nothing in Theros has actually changed. Unlike Innistrad, which I think did the best job of taking cards from the original, putting a twist on them and shifting them from gothic horror to cosmic horror with the Eldrazi, everything in Theros has just kinda...stayed the same. It feels like we're only here because People Like Theros and we wanted to see Elspeth's story continue instead of end in tragedy which.... isn't that kinda the point?
Great job putting into words a feeling I couldn't quite describe, and thank you for your content.
When the world needed him most, he vanished
You have been the first person that has encapsulate my feelings on this set. I never liked it as I felt it never went to place that the original set went. People called me a hater but now your video sumed up my feeling.
Once again i sant in awe of your talent, dedication and mind. You are by far the best content creator i watch in this platform and your content goes beyond me liking mtg, its a masterpiece in its own right. A journey into analisis and knowledge.
I'm really really enjoying your essays on the various cultures in the MTG various planes and their influence and, as a matter of fact, enjoy all the video essays you do on MTG, so please don't stop.
Nice to see that I wasn’t the only one who was a bit disappointed by TBD. Somehow, it was really hard to put my finger on why I wasn’t as excited by the set as I wanted to be, but this video does a great job of pinpointing how it falls short. It felt solid in every way, yet somehow lackluster.
I think Theros is a difficult plane to return to in general. Due to the fact that its story, art, and even mechanics are so closely tied to real-world mythology, there is a finite amount of material available for the designers to use as a reference for their game. For example, you can only retell the story of Icarus so many times (and I'd say the two times that they have has been enough). Unless the next Theros set includes designers' original interpretations/stories of these characters and events already so deeply established in both Greek mythology and now already-printed cards, there will never be a way to keep Theros' impact from diminishing each time we visit it. But if future cards start to tell/reference stories and events dissimilar to what both the ancient Greeks and original cards told, Theros will likely lose its top-down design and become like any other plane original to Magic (even if that's not objectively a bad outcome). We've already seen this with the current original story on Theros: the focus on Elspeth's tribulations on the plane.
But hey, it's just a theory.
This was fantastic, like all your work, beautifully stated. Exactly why most of us long term magic players feel like the game has lost its soul, it's just like the film industry throwing out the old recycled hits
Im happy you're not gone! This is the channel that got me into MTG
This might be the first time I don't agree with you on something. This is just my opinion of course :
When talking about Theros, we encounter different types of people, but the two I see the most are :
-The ones who love Greek mythology and want to see references to that in the card
-The ones who hate worlds that are too inspired by real life stuff and therefore hate some amount of cards in Theros.
For my part, I really don't like "copy/pastes" of real life into Magic. When I first saw Alirios, enraptured, I thought "Yeah, this is Narcissus, and this is a very nice way to showcase this story into gameplay. But that's not Magic". One of my friends hates Theros because some gods are just Greek gods, with very little modifications.
But I've also noticed that I love Theros, and Innistrad too, and both are heavily inspired by real life. But when I try to see what I love in these, I see that I love the story in general, how the characters interact with each others, and usually the characters I like the most are not the ones inspired by real life, unless I can really relate to them. In Theros, my favorite god is Kruphix, and that's for a lot of reasons, one of them being that he feels unique. I know he might be inspired by multiple greek gods, yet this is not copy/paste. He fulfills a role in the Theros story and universe before all else.
When reading the books, I didn't care if Purphoros was mostly Hephaestus. I loved his relationship with Kruphix, Heliod, Thassa. But that's because I managed to deactivate my brain and avoid thinking about greek mythology. However, not everybody is able to do so.
So when we went back to Theros, I liked it. It was in fact a reference to Theros, not to greek mythology, and that's fine. At least it would be fine if the story was not so poor and the universe was a little bit more developed. I feel like a lot of people started to love Theros over pure greek mythology, perhaps because they are familiar with this world. I think this "remake" being a reference to Theros itself is not only fine, but also a good idea, because that's when they should have expanded Theros the same way they used greek mythology as a basis to create this great plane.
You put in words what I have felt but could not put a finger on when I looked at Beyond Death. Great video!
While I definitely see some areas where they hewed too closely to the last time (the gods in particular really don't stand out from their prior version), bringing Gary back was probably the boldest and most surprising thing they did. Bringing a powerful, fan favorite card back so you can relive old glory, or taste it for the first time, was a great move. It's the same as that cheeky flavor text when they brought Lightning Bolt back; unexpected but a love letter to everything that makes this game great.
I really liked this. I understand why it can take so long for a new video to come out now. I thought tbd was a good set. But it takes an extremely well polished essay to convince me, and even have me agreeing with it that I was wrong. Last time was so beautiful, and the quote at the end me me tearing up
this is, easily, one of your best. hit it right outta the park!
I'm excited for more to come from this "series" and more from Mary she's awesome and did a great job.
“What do you know of Greek Myth?” In my case school and PC game came to my mind in response to the question.
In my country middle school history class cover ancient civilizations and some mythology, at the same time I was attending those, Age of Mythology cames out. Both caught my interest and as I was a nerd in no time I was knowing way more on Greek, Roman, Norse and Egypt mythology than your typical kid.
I'm so happy you have another video. You sir are an amazing analyst and meditator of art, of gaming and of mythology.