Legends Need Not Apply | A History of "The Legend Rule" in Magic
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2018
- This video explores the history and function of "The Legend Rule" in Magic.
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Alright I'm gonna do a vorthos deep dive here to explain why the legend rule is perfectly in flavor. So in the story Loran's Smile Feldon of the Third Path learns how to summon creatures from a white mage. The mage explains that a summoned creature is a construction made from Mana and shaped from your memories. Old Planeswalkers used to be able to actually bring creatures from modern planes but most can not after the mending. As such when you summon a creature you are forming Mana into your impression of that creature. When it is a legendary creature instead of fitting into some concept it fits into a memory of a specific person. You can't control two since you can't hold the concept of an individual in your mind twice and keep them separate, but your opponent can hold one impression of a person and you can hold another. As such it makes sense why each mage can have a single copy of a legendary out at a time as they can each have their own memory of an individual.
Wow, that actually is a really interesting explanation!
#VorthosFTW
What a cool explanation! I remember in the old Magic books this is how Magic worked. Purely as a thought exercise, what if two planeswalkers remembered a legendary person differently? Would their abilities be different?
wow! that was awesome!
So in lore when you summon 3 Sorin you’re actually remembering him at 3 different points in his life? I really like this take on what’s happening.
When Soren-Tron came onto my radar I had a discussion with a friend of mine who is very into trying to find ways to explain strange play combos in Magic. We pretty quickly decided it wasn't multiple Sorens. It was an increasingly more powerful single Soren who gained or lost power as the game pieces came onto or left the board. Just my two cents.
I agree with this interpretation
Nah. It's the same as legendary creatures, we are summoning our memories of Sorin at a specific time in his life. This is after all why summoned planeswalkers can't use all their powers, but only the kind of powers we saw them use in the time the memory was formed. If that was not the case, the planeswalker in question could cast their own spells but they cant
I tend to just explain the presence of a single Legendary creature or planeswalker in multiples, on either or both sides of the field, as being Temporal Bullshit. Soren-Tron is just Soren being pulled from multiple points in his personal timeline. Or possibly from different timelines.
There has to be SOME consequence for Terefi's shenanigans.
This is exactly how i picture it.
That’s pretty creative and makes sense
Imagine a hissing quagmire crewing a smugglers copter equipped with a basilisk collar.... Like honestly wtf is even happening there?
UltimateOmbuStorm You can have a runaway carriage crew a train.
And how is emrakul suposed to fit in that thing?
Emrakul doesn't pilot it, I kill her with a 15 unit 1/1 squirrel army. Nothing gets past 15 squirrels.
Emrakul flies over your squirrels.
Any Voltron deck is going to be like that. You should see my Kemba, Kha Regent commander deck. She can be found wearing 2 pairs of boots, 2 sets of armor, carrying up to 12 swords and a banner.
I like to believe that multiple instances of the same legend - especially planeswalkers - is the same person. Say you have 3 Jaces on the field: Vryns Prodigy, Mind Sculptor, and Cunning Castaway. You only control one ACTUAL character - Jace. He has every ability on each card. He never lost them. You, as a player, just need to cast multiple spells and get multiple cards on the table in order to use Jace to his full potential.
I know I’m a bit late on this but it’s ironic you use Jace as an example considering he’s wiped his memory between each of those incarnations (once when he beat Vryn, again when he stopped being the mind sculptor)
And now, he has been completed yet again under our queen to yet again, lose his memory. All Planes Walkers Will be One :D
A new Rhystic Studies video? Today is a good day
dzeeff Magic pack opening when?
I would have to agree
Big fan Dz!
Today is a day
A Legendary Day !
Under mirror universe rules Thespian Stage could still copy Dark Depths and not have any counters on it. The only difference is you would get to keep the original Dark Depths with the ice counters on it because you never have to sacrifice it to the legend rule. The copied one would still trigger Marit Lage due to having no counters. RE: 12:45
I like to think of equip costs as using mana to rework the artifacts into a form that whatever you're equipping it to can use: so turning the "sword" of fire and ice into some kind of claw augment Bolas could use costs 2 mana. I'm making an equipment deck for Tromocratis, the big fat kraken, so I've been thinking about this :)
a little over 4 years later the count more than doubled from 1,032 to 2,132, which is wild in of itself.
There are times I might miss the old legend rule and others that I'm just simply happy Evil Twin works way better now
You provide the most thorough and informative MTG videos on TH-cam. I always look forward to your content.
Skadoosh!!
Oh hi
Yet Baller on a budget kinda fights for that 1# spot mate ;)
Anyone know wh the "Nate" he was talking about, the one who described Geist?
It's always an honor to have one of my rants sampled
"Wielding 3 swords even though he only has 2 hands."
Someone's never seen One Piece.
Like Bolas would not have some sort of telekinesis at his disposal...
I'm pretty sure the Dark depths combo still works without the legend rule, as its not the sacrifice of the dark depths, its that thespians stage/dark depths never enters the battlefield so it doesn't get the counters. The legend rule was just a nuance that players had to acknowledge to perform the combo. Still, sweet vid.
yep, you are correct, and this was my mistake confusing how it worked. thanks for the heads up.
I’d argue that the legend rule makes sense if you compare MTG to war games like WH40K or Warmachine.
If two players have the same legendary commander, it’s seen that one of them is an imposter. And the commander who wins is obviously the real legendary person at the end of it all.
1:59 oh baby I love those transitions
Interesting to see you here, I often forget two of your first videos were about MTG
YOU PLAY MTG. I love this man
seeing The Adventure Zone content in this brought a smile to my face
Ah yes, I remember when the legend rule let clones kill any legend you saw. It was absurd gameplay-wise, but it also twisted the color pie. Blue is not supposed to be good at directly destroying creatures. So glad we have the more functional and fun rule now.
I kind of liked the Kamigawa version. Cloning something like your own Kokusho or Yosei after an attack was pretty funny.
That is funny. But you can still kinda do that with clones since you can still sac one of them. Still kinda bends that color pie though...I wonder what MaRo thinks about that?
(Also Senpai noticed me!)
Sam says its in a perfect place.
wotc "WE CAN FIX THAT FOR YOU"
The only thing I don't care for about the Legend rule is its interactions with clones. I literally can't make an illusionary copy of a legendary creature, despite, you know, it being an ILLUSION. Space and time have no respect for cosplay it seems.
That's true.
It could be fixed by making cards which say "becomes a copy of target creature except it loses the legend supertype".
Or you could take the view that Legendary creatures are too complex to become believable illusions.
Sure, I can use my clone spells to copy huge eldrazi monstrosities, large mobs of people, any average demon or dragon or whatever have you, but copying Konda's special dog is way too complicated and difficult. TBH I kind of like that explanation, it's just goofy enough for me
Faultiplayer. Well, it´s not the best explanation :P
But clones aren't illusions - they're shapeshifters that literally copy something so well that they become indistinguishable from the original.
They're illusions, Michael.
Legend rule also adds a bit more nuance to deckbuilding when building around them. Legends often have unique abilities that make you want to build around them, and so it can be an interesting balance to figure out how many copies are worth playing.
"I block your Eldrazi with 15 squirrel tokens..."
It started with Seth. I can only be good!
He returns!
I kinda feel that the change to the planeswalker rule let a possible design disappear. After the gatewatch, I kinda expected "Nissa and Chandra" team-up cards appear. I felt that while some planeswalkers were overused, others could use new iterations and could fuel mechanics based on planeswaker subtype (they appeared in planeswalker decks but have yet to be printed at constructed power levels)
The point about interaction of mechanics creating absurd results was great and got me thinking of some of my best memories playing MTG...such as a river boa equipped with kitesail and an axe wrecking my face on one late night kitchen table match which left everyone involved in stitches. Great video once again!
The legend rule not applying would be a buff to Thespian Stage + Dark Depths. The stage would still turn into marit lage, you'd just get to keep the old Dark Depths.
Once again you blow me away. Keep it up man - as always, fantastic content.
As always, appreciate the thoughtfulness in these videos. Happy to support
Thank you, again, for these videos. Every time I come back to watch, I am floored & amazed by your talent & insight.
This video had me in stitches. The zoom! Your videos are getting better every time. Always looking forward to the next video
Phew awesome vid as usual. I love seeing Magic through your eyes.
Your editing and musical choice gives me goosebumps too haha.
Thank you.
Yess, It's been a while! I love your content!!!
So much love for your work. Thank you for taking the time and making these thoughtful videos
Fantastic Video. Thanks for taking the time putting it together.
this is my favourite channel on yt, and it saddens me to wait for the next vid. Good work, like always. 👏
Hey Rhystic studies, I have just stumbled upon your channel and so far, the videos has been amazing. Thank you for your work.
Continually impressed by the topics chosen and their quality, keep it up man!
I absolutely love your videos and the unique view you have on things. I hope there will be many videos to come!
besides being a limp for some of the stronger cards, the legend rule on can also lend itself to some interesting decision making in deck building, as you have to actually weigh the risk vs reward rather than just blindly throwing in 4, which is something I really wish we saw more of.
it always surprises me when you upload something new because I always think it's something from the past and I missed it, but always good content and great voiceover!
Been waiting for another videos, these are always so good
Fantastic video as always. I'm not even a fan of the game but hearing someone passionate for it examine all sorts of things related to the series is entrancing, your editing is absolutely on point, and you make consistently interesting content.
You always provide a unique lens to view these topics through. Always appreciate the insight
I was waiting for a New Video! Finally! Thanks
INCREDIBLY convincing argument, brilliantly written, absolute joy to watch. Some of the best magic content out there.
These videos are so incredibly cool! Would you consider doing a series going throughout the Magic storyline? I have been looking for something like that for a long time, but I cant imagine anyone as nice to listen to as yourself.
Keep it up!
Your content is seriously incredible. Thorough and informative as always 👍
FINALLY! I was already memorizing every single one of your other videos by watching them over and over again.
Your videos go so far beyond just Magic. I have posted this on several videos I'm sure, but I am under the belief that anyone with an appreciation for art and history would love these videos.They do an excellent job at putting perspective on the game we have all grown to love
I watch a lot of "video essay" channels on TH-cam, and while most of them are film-related, I think you're the best of the channels I watch, period. The structure, use of examples, and PACING are perfect. You just make an easy-to-follow argument that makes sense. Always look forward to your videos, even though I don't play MTG anymore. Keep up the good work, man.
Always awesome! Why do you have such a calming voice.
We have a quote in our play group. It goes like this: 15 squirrels can kill emrakul. When we talk about flavor vs gameplay.
I got into magic back in highschool with Kamigawa (which I still love, sad we will never see it again) and the mutually assured destruction of Legendary creatures back then. I get all the rule changes around the Legendary cards, but I still kind of like the M.A.D. legendary rule. It made sense to me that only one instance of a legendary creature could exist at one time without some kind of paradox happening.
I literally just wanted to know what the rule did. This was above and beyond, great work! Going to be watching more for sure.
YOU are the Legend, for making such amazing content. TY.
What a fantastic way to start out the summer.
Good to see you!!
Your video composition skills are beautiful. I very much enjoy your work.
Brilliant insight
The zoom in on the bird token broke me! As always thank you for the amazing content!
Your content is beyond amazing! Thank you!
Saw that there was a new video. Need to go home and "set the mood" and prepare my mind and body for this experience
Great as always!
If you think about it, the players of magic are planeswalkers summoning things from different times and spaces so it makes perfect sense to have two sorins in play as long as they are from different times
Planeswalkers don't really summon planeswalkers.
Also it depends how time functions. That only makes sense if multiple timelines exist simultaneously independent of each other.
@@CGoody564 they do summon planeswalkers. The planeswalkers come and help you was retconned to deatg
Amazing work as always!
I really like this deep dive into the rules of the game from a flavor and function perspective.
10:40-11:00 the best part by far. I love these videos, but this part has been the one to make me double over in my chair for a few minutes clutching my sides. Thank you for the much needed laughter.
Another excellent video! Thank you for your work.
Lovin this video format!
I always wait for videos from you, they are far between but the quality of the content is unparalleled by any other channel
Man, your videos are so good!
Sam, I wish you put out content more often. I live everything you've put out.
Not were I thought this was going but wow that was a great video.
I now understand why people used to play vanilla Jace Beleren during the Mind Sculptor days. Had that doubt ever since I saw your Mind Sculptor video. Love your videos even though I don´t play Magic. Keep it up!
It's always a good day when this channel uploads. :D
I watched all of your videos rather quickly. I haven't played mtg in over a decade but I greatly appreciate all of your content, especially the art analyses. Cheers
My favorite thing that happened in a game as far as flavor was back in my second year of magic (this is my 5th year btw so im still fairly new) I'd cast a genesis hydra for 22 and gave him featherfleet sandles i think it's called, the equipment from theros that gives flying and haste. Human sized sandles allowing a beast the size of a trailer park to just... fly. Ah flavor
Another incredible video. Thank you 🙏🏻
The smuggler's copter part reminds me of a historic deck i have in arena. I used artificer's assistant to crew my sleek schooner, which i then used to crew the Weatherlight. All I could think of was a tiny bird behind the wheel of a giant boat riding on top of a flying ship
Luke Trickey I'm not a person who is typically fixated on flavor, but, come on. Crew is a really funny mechanic
Friendly reminder that three squirrels can kill Jace the Mind Sculptor. ;)
Let's be honest, most of us would die to three squirrels if they were focused solely on trying to kill us. There's a reason why Squirrel Girl is so OP in Marvel comics ;)
Or that a Soldier, fully clad in armor and weapons, will die fighting a squirrel
Rubarack Then, by that logic, two squirrels can take on a bear. As said, it leads to circular loop of logic.
@Rubarack that doesn't make sense. Squirrels are 1/1. 3 squirrels can kill Jace as he is a 3/3; him being a "superhuman" isn't relavant; the stats tell the story. If he is superhuman, the squirrels are super squirrels.
And forget about laurence's comment not being relavant; it isn't even correct, generally speaking
Do I really need to mention that even drinking too much water can kill a normal human? Anything can kill a human; what is relavant is how likely it is to happen.
@@laurencebrown3822 someone who knows who Squirrel Girl is!? :O
You are a legend for including the link to the Soren Tron video. Couldn't for the life of me find it on TH-cam. Thank you!
Edit: Heh. Just saw the adventure zone reference towards the end.
Yes ! Always love your content!
I'm always sad when I reach the end of one of your videos... But then I just rewatch them :D
I figured the Legendary ruling concerning Planeswalkers was changed to increase sales. LOL I never thought about Innistrad and Kaladesh having ''flavor'' issues but now that I do I just figure Kaladesh slides into the Mad Scientist role:P
After in kaladesh emrakul was too in standard (some time) and one time I needed the card from my library so bad, I didn't care for the 13 damage (can't remember the situation entirely) so i had to crew the smugglers copter with Emrakul. After i said that me, my opponent and few spectators exploded in laughter and that forever changed the way I looked the game flavourwise. I think vehickles was that moment for many one way or another.
Thanks for the upload
Love these studies!!
What a video, loving it as usual
You know it's going to be a good day when there is a new rhystic study video
love your vids man !
Amazing video and quality.
Wow nice summary and Analysis of this interesting concept, I think I agree it seems like they've reached a good balance with the current rules situation.
Yet another fantastic video.
Flavor-wise it never bothered me when legends doubled as removal. Back when I learned the game, creatures were still understood as "summoning spells" so it made since that if both planeswalkers could summon the same legend, one could use their spell to unsummon the other. They aren't "looking at each other", rather you are "closing the portal". I would make it exile rather than sacrifice, though
Legendary video as always.
Almost 5 years later and the number of legends has doubled, 2,265, At time of writing. Crazy
Your videos are always top quality.
Thank you for your work I love your channel and videos
Sorin-tron was the inciting inspiration for my favourite commander deck: Nicol Bolas Tribal. Most cards in the deck reference Nicol Bolas directly in some way (in either the art, name, or flavor text). But most importantly, it runs every version of Nicol Bolas, and the truest win condition of the deck for myself is to have Nicol Bolas the creature, the 4 Nicol Bolas planeswalkers, and the double-faced Nicol Bolas transformed to Nicol Bolas the Arisen.
I love these so much!
Removal of the legend rule wouldnt remove the Thespian depths combo you would just keep the original depths rather than sacrificing both