Why the Dutch Right-Wing Can’t Form a Government
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Three months on from the election, Geert Wilders and the PVV are struggling to form a government after a potential coalition partner has left talks. So in this video, we explain the possible coalition outcomes and whether we could see another election.
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Seems like they hebben een serieus probleem
Ik ben er sure of that it will take een lange time to form a coalition
Kromme tenen speech
Een véry groot probleem.
Dutch is NOT a real language 😭
@momytik makan siang gratis
It really isn't that strange. The last two Dutch government formations took around 300 days from the day of election. The average is about 103 days counting since the 2nd world war. We haven't even reached the average yet. Upvote this to inform people that aren't from the Netherlands.
Ik ben Nederlands maar hoe de f*cking hell ga je dit allemaal proberen te verdedigen als gewenst. Daarnaast, hoeveel kabinetten hebben we gehad sinds de Tweede Wereldoorlog? Niet veel nee, dus niet gaan doen of dit gewenst is, of getuigd van enige competentie.
How are things managed while there's no government? Is there some sort of caretaker government while the parties sort themselves out? Honest question.
@@victorleoncio1079
There's a couple of things that can happen, like forming a new temporary interim government, or the currently more common method of the previous ruling coalition continuing as a "demissionary" cabinet. Formally a demissionary cabinet is when the ruling coalition offers their resignation to the king (or queen) and this hasn't been accepted yet. In practice and in this context it means that they will be leaving as soon as is convenient (when they're replaced by the new coalition).
Formally our current demissionary government are not supposed to handle big or controversial issues and only deal with "ongoing" issues. In practice they continue taking on everything including large and controversial issues, as long as it doesn't give them too huge blowback from opposition in media.
@@Socragames Sounds convoluted and seems almost like a democracy deficit. If the election changes don't alter government policy, how will the voters realize if they made a mistake or not in the last election, since the government fundamentally hasn't changed much.
@@darkfool2000
Name a country without a democracy deficit.
At 5:45 when you show the experienced candidates for the new cabinet, for the 6th candidate from the VVD you've put a picture of Rob Jetten. He's currently the leader of D66 and not a part of the VVD...
TLDR and small mistakes they never correct nor fix, name a more iconic duo
They also said the formation has collapsed. Which is still not the case, it’s waiting for the formation report on the 12th.
Just don’t think TLDR is news, it’s entertainment. If you think like that, they’re watchable.
@@Ticklestein The negotiations did collapse. The fact that both NSC (Omtzigt) and the other parties said they may resume talks later, does not alter the fact that the negotiations broke down
@@addylandzaat8080the talks broke down, not the actual negotiations. We probably will see some form of government with the same parties.
@@wile123456 Give them a break. Daily uploads on a topic as complex as multinational European politics isn't exactly easy.
5:30 How many takes for this tongue twister? 😂
it's like he suddenly started beat boxing
"peeveeveeveeveedeeandbeebeebee"
I'm down to comments for this!
That was amazing 😂😂😂I was listening in the background and I thought TH-cam glitched
I'm honestly more surprised NSC stayed in the talks as long as they did than anything else.
In many ways his ideologies are diametrically opposed to the PVV and he has clashed with Wilders countless times before.
He got pushed out of the CDA as part of negotiations between VVD and CDA for exposing one of the biggest government scandals in recent Dutch history.
After one of his party members got threatened by a rioting farmer the BBB leader explicitly supported said farmer.
Finances feels like it's mostly just an excuse for something that was going to happen anyway.
she didn’t support him she just didn’t want to talk about the issue.
@@chunkykong1976 Tantamount to tacit support.
Da
i mean he knew that most of his voters wanted him to stay. he knew this could cost him votes.
@@chigchong2805
Do they though?
Omtzigt's dislike for Wilders has never been a secret, so if his voters wanted a coalition with Wilders they really picked the wrong man. He has been very clear that he did not want to form a coalition with Wilders right up till the elections.
Pieter Omtzigt pulled out of talks not simply because the govt finances looked worse than initially thought, he said that (he felt like) the documents were kept from the negotiating parties for too long. Omtzigt has always campaigned for transparent government and proper procedures, so this move totally suits his character. Also, he said that this was the straw that broke the camel's back, so there was probably a lot more going on than just a few documents with some bad news being sent too late
Yeah, it's very "convenient" for the remaining three parties that everything was behind closed doors, so they can claim they are truly surprised.
Exactly! Thanks for commenting this. Seems like TLDR has not looked further than the length of their own noses (beautiful Dutch saying) and relies a bit too much on the Telegraaf and other VVD/populist media outlets. I suspect Omtzigt will try to get rid of Plasterk as informateur soon, and continue talks to form an extraparliamentary cabinet.
@@annekekramer3835we always have it behind close doors.
If you talk about it before its ovet thats seen as bad faith.
He is transparent about his weak spine, the one you seem to have as well. Groeten uit Brabant, deugkneus
@@Thomas-xd4cx je zet jezelf en Brabant weer mooi op de kaart met deze onnodige sneer 👍
6:30 I think the PvdA-GL getting into a coalition with the BBB is about as likely as me being able to touch the moon tomorrow
Steal a rocket, I heard Bezos has one
Same with working with VVD and especially not with VVD and NSC
Don't think they need BBB on board though, the graphic certainly didn't look like they need it for the majority.
They need BBB because they have 1/3 of the seats in the senate
@@qvinnyc But they don't *need* majority in the upper house do they? Since the biggest party definitely cannot have dual control in their proposed government, it shouldn't be a problem for the second biggest party to not have dual control in theirs?
At 5:45 the sixth portrait is Rob Jetten the leader of another party D66, so its unlikely he's gonna be a VVD candidate 😂😂😂
There have been mistakes like this in pretty much any video of which I have some knowledge of the topic. Makes me wonder: how many false truths have I picked up on topics I know little about.
Also that is Kajsa Ollongren, minister of Defense for D66
@@Rosebakker5242 You mean the 4th? Because that is Micky Adriaansens, The Minister of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy.
@@DutchDesiresThey said that the VVD is the only party that can supply experienced ministers which is accurate. The editor put in random pictures of Dutch politicians in that list because the individuals are not discussed in the video script. This channel pumps out a LOT of content so spelling and editing mistakes are common, and understandable. Everything said in this video is 99% accurate
@@Rosebakker5242 Yes, Ollongren with her document leak, showing that the other politicians had been gossiping about Omtzigt behind his back, and not in a nice way.
He was regarded as a bit of a nuisence, after playing a big part in exposing the child benefits scandal, which caused the cabinet to fall.
Also he was regarded as not stress resistent enough for a really top job, as he had a bit of a nervous breakdown.
The hours can be long in politics and the level of stress high, if you have a top function.
Bruno Bruins collapsed in the 2nd chamber at one stage.
He was Minister of Health during the beginning of the corona crisis and collapsed from overwork and stress.
He was replaced by Hugo De Jonge, who later became CDA party leader, after competing for the job with Omtzigt.
Another reason Pieter Omtzigt with NSC broke the current negotiations, is because there was a lot of personal attacks on social media like X, while playing ignorant to each other a few hours later in a face-to-face setting. Omtzigt (rightfully) disliked this manner of coalition negotiations, and called the other party leaders out on it...
Which happened some or all of the others leaked info, while they agreed on radio silence for this part of the negotiations. This did not help. The original worries of the NSC (the PVV not agreeing with the constitution and wanting to change basic rights) were apparently also not (fully) cleared up..
Imagine sitting at a negotiation table and the person next to you keeps talking shit about you on twitter…
I would have gone home allot sooner.
Omtzigt wouldn't have been called out if he wasn't being such a childish, opportunistic snake
@@michaelk4896 I don't agree with Omtzicht on a lot of major points, but I say Opportunistic and childish is way more applicable to the other parties.
Wlders being most childish (20 years of name calling and empty oneliners) the VVD Opportunistic by faking not to want to rule, as a bargaining chip.
BBB is a bit of both, only resisting farming reform, without alternative and screaming "it's not fair"
so uninformed :o crazy
Fun fact: Caroline van der Plas uses the English pronunciation of her first name.
Correct. Due to her half Irish heritage.
Yeah, kinda stupid. It's because her mother is Irish.
@@DFandVoh that explains the klavertje too! In their logo I mean, not the Jesse klavertje.
Yeah. That is really bugging me for sure.
She prob thinks she looks smarter with a "english" name. So annoying.
@@Perfectblue33or it's just her name
6:27 BBB doesn't even have to be a part of this coalition and propably won't be if it actually happens.
Without BBB that coalition lacks a majority in the senate, 29/75 seats, and although you can govern without it, iot really does not provide a stable base for more controversial issues.
@@TheSeparhimYeah but the PVV, VVD, NSC and BBB coalition don’t have a senate majority either
@@Phoenix_VideoXalways helps to get closer to that mayority.
@@Phoenix_VideoX They are far closer to one opposed to the centre left coalition though.
@@TheSeparhim As the BBB is a new and in my opinion opportunistic party, I am willing to bet it is a matter of very limited time before quite a few BBB members wil leave the party and take their seat with them. As happened with the FVD, JA21 and every pensioners party the Netherlands ever had.
The second option wil never involve BBB, The left combinationparty(GL/PvdA) and BBB are like water and fire. So even though VVD and GL/PvdA say they do not want to work together, the chances of BBB and GL/PvdA working together is non existent.
This coalition without BBB is stil an option tho. Because they'll still have a mayority without them.
Highly doubt it. The VVD would basically commit suicide if they were to make a coalition with the opposition party. They are already at a steep downhill, that move could easily see them going out of parliament in next elections.
I think CDA is more likely, but its not impossible. They work together in some provinces
It’s sad because they should not be. Farmers are in a bad place because of many reasons, but most stem from the current system forcing them to farm at huge scale, which just happens to be terrible for the environment (local and global), animals welfare, and the farmers quality of life. The only people profiting are banks, input suppliers, and the companies that sell their products (but often not the farmers themselves).
The left are generally speaking against the things that put farmers in this spot.
Could PvdD maybe replace them? They're pretty close to GL/PvdA right?
Yeahh that's whyy Germany is doing soo better rn @@DerekHardwick
huge props to you for reading out all those three letter acronyms next to each other soo many times
It is simple. Every talk of forming a government is sidetracked when the other party leaders get distracted by Wilders' weird hair.
You're missing one very important point: Wilders will not take responsibility. Ever.
He does not want to be part of a cabinet, he does not want to govern the country. He can't say this obviously, but a lot of signs show this.
There's also an option for a minority cabinet consisting of VVD, NSC and BBB. This cabinet would have a luxury to get votes for policies over both the right wing (with PVV support) or the left wing (with GL/PvdA and D66 support) in both houses (Eerste en Tweede Kamer).
If there is going to be a minority cabinet with VVD and NSC, surely GLPVDA would be a better choice as extra partner than the tiny BBB?
Of course that would probably involve a Premier Timmermans, which would infuriate the right wingers.
The center-left alliance proposed here is closer to a grand coalition.
I think he meant Center-left Lead coalition. Since they are the second largest party after the election.
Anything to ignore popular opinion
technically not a grand coalition, since it’s not of the 2 largest parties
@@hevnervals But the people with the "popular opinion" isn't popular enough to get majority in the House of Representatives.
The far right and right wingers doesn't actually have majority, they have to rely on the centrist to get majority. It means that they are not the most popular one.
That's why they can't form a majority coalition.
@@nntflow7058 Are you suggesting popular opinion on single issues would match 1:1 with votes?
Geert Wilders looks like what would happen if you gave an AI image generator the prompt of "Trump, but Dutch".
Our King looks more like him, seriously google "Koning Willem Alexander"
It should be noted that while the other parties reacted surprised, this was coming. I guess the real surprise was the how badly the announcement was handled. It was actually leaked before he even told them.
Pronunciation guide: Geert rhymes with beard, not bird. Caroline is pronounced like in English.
Pieter is like English Peter.
Ze heet gewoon Caroline man. Op zijn engels ziet het er een stuk beter uit. Bullshit.
@@Perfectblue33 You're really upset about that, aren't you?
@@Perfectblue33she was named by her irish mother.
A bit about the naming but not to much. It's just annoying. Have a wonderful day!@@RUBBER_BULLET
VVD is definitely right wing, not centre-right. And the NSC cannot be seen as a plain centre party either.
Its center right.
BBB and GL-PvdA is not likely to form a government. If GL-PvdA would conctruct a government it would most likely be without BBB
Yeah, I don't understand why they put BBB in that center coalition. They're not needed for numbers and would only add more friction to negotiations.
@@zoefschildpadfor their 29 seats in the senate (1e kamer).
There would also be a massive revolt if they only tried to form a government under PvdA. Most Dutch people are extremely allergic to Timmermans.
@@zoefschildpadThe BBB have 16 seats in the Senate
Ah yes, classic Dutch politics
Right leaning government fails, let's make a government that's even more right and keep one of the parties responsible for the failing.
Personality in more in the mood for a center left progressive government, but it seems I'm in the minority.
Watch out Belgium we're going for your record! (541 days without a government forming after elections)
I'm baffeled, I was under the impression that the far right are soft spoken, agreeable, willing to work and live together with people different than them. They looked sooo open to nuance willing to compremise and seemed open minded.
Sarcasm at its finest
5:45 poor Rob Jetten
Correction: Rutte is still prime minister (be it demissionary), so the (2010-2023) at 1:22 isn't correct, though he isn't the party leader anymore
Also the maps around 7:12 aren't really useful: the Netherlands doesn't have a district system but a proportional one, so maps with the largest party per municipality are non-information. Many maps of this kind show one party being the largest in a large majority of municipality. The largest parties in any of these elections had just 30% of the vote, not the overwhelming majority they seem on these maps. Also they give the false impression that a municipality has voted just one way, when in many cases the largest party had just 20% of the vote.
I am still so glad that we have proportional representation and not that constituency type of politics. Otherwise we would have the religious nut case SGP having power right along the Bible Belt, with maybe a quarter or even third of the seats, instead of the just 3 out of 150 that they have now, because almost nobody actually supports them. PR is considerably fairer. And we don't have the crooked gerrymandering by sitting parties, as there is no point to it.
It’s these kinds of maps that cause confusion in both the Dutch population and abroad. It’s simply a misrepresentation of how politics works in the Netherlands.
round of applause for saying the acronyms together quickly.
Thank goodness. The anti extreme right should come together in the Netherlands, as in France
We hebben een serieus probleem!
🤓
I just feel bad for Rutte for still having to be prime minister after having announced he'd retire from politics like a gazillion years ago.
PVV and BBB are highly populist parties, while Omtzigt is an experienced and informed politician with high standards on governance and rule of law. Naturally they clash with him on almost everything.
VVD is responsible for the biggest government scandal of the century (which Omtzigt helped expose), and for the rise of the PVV. Yet they try to push NSC into governing with the populists.
If I were Omtzigt, I'd think 3x before stepping into that hornets nest "all for the good of the country."
@5:29
Hmm, yes, *_PVVVVDBBB._*
4:19
If only places like the US and UK had such systems of government
It's a good system but don't get it twisted if we had the same politicians as the uk or us it'd be a joke as well.
I will sadly say they're slowly starting to look more and more like the US and UK so who knows
@@yofedstyhrega4594I think having more parties and needing to form coalitions more would actually result in less cooky politicans having a lot of power in the US and the UK
@@yofedstyhrega4594
It's the same though everywhere, especially since Trump Americanesque Politics are getting more and more popular all over the world. You just need to scream/talk in an enraged way, can just straight out lie and get a personal Fanclub as long as you say you're anti Establishment. Sprinkle in some buzzwords like woke , sheep and you'll win millions of votes, you can even look like an absolute clownish super villain
@@sejanus855 sad but true. kinda similar around ww2.
@@sejanus855, it's because to the average joe, they prefer hearing easy sounding "solutions" to complex societal problems rather than hearing less sexy nuanced solutions or long term solutions where people have to be patient for it to take fruit.
The result is very unnuanced and unprincipled politics which just consists of slogans like "Tax the Rich", "Stop the immigrants", "Transwomen are women", "Stop green policies", "Just stop oil" etc
He overstretched his hand
Maybe a prime minister that nobody wants to work with isn’t fit to run the country.
You don't know Dutch Politics, the majority want him, and it's growing fast
Majority of dutch citizens want them to form a coalition with wilders. Only the political parties don't want to work together with Wilders. This has been polled many times
@@tnickknightOnder de categorie; "Met geweld neuk je een ezel"?
That's whyy his party is polling at 36%
@@tnickknight how is 25 to 30 percent a majority exactly? And even then a not insignificant part of those voters are people who don't like the PVV, but voted for them strategically because they hate GL-PVDA more...
I love this graphics ❤
Thanks
3:19 nice hahaha. Real leaked screenshot.
Nice pronounciations of names btw! Only Geert is a long eee sound. But quite well done for the rest!
Funny thing is that Caroline vd Plas her first name is actually pronounced the english way, which most Dutch people got wrong at first.
Geert rhymes with Wierd, to be clear.
he pronounced G wrong
@@FoxInClogs it's like kheert
@@momytikEurope uses Whatsapp mostly
@@momytik It's not strange for politicians to message each other via Whatsapp in the Netherlands. A lot of business is also conducted through the app. It'd be considered informal in many countries, but not so much in the Netherlands.
At 1:18 it should be noted that the VVD isn't wholly in for a new cabinet. Party leader Dilan Yeşilgöz noted that due to the poor election results the party wouldn't be going in a new cabinet, but instead take on a support role. This means that their seats don't count towards the new cabinet and they don't deliver ministers but instead they will support some plans of the new cabinet while getting support for some of their own plans. The support role was one NSC probably wanted so they can support not only right wing but also left wing plans. The pulling out of NSC therefore doesn't only mean that PVV has lost 20 seats and has only 68/76 but in reality only has 44/76 needed seats.
Besides that it should also be noted that at 0:14 it is said that NSC pulled out of the talks. In an interview at the program 'Humberto' party leader Omtzigt said that they ''pulled out of the first round'' to parafrase him. Not the whole talks. This means there is still an option for them to go further in the talks of forming a new cabinet.
I wish Britain had leaders with the same guts and common sense as Geert Wilders:
Omtzigt stepped out of the negotiations because of bad government finances. That makes it harder to make a coalition agreement that all parties agree with (there is less money to spend). NSC might come back to the negations again after the coalition report.
Is it really that bad? I thought Rutte was known for his austerity and not spending much. We Belgians have a far worse financial situation and our biggest debate is whether we should give people who buy electric cars a 5000 euros premie lmfao.
Kaag was Minister of Finance... Yes, I think it's worse than we think. It's because of Covid, Ukraine, the cost of healthcare. The toeslagenschandaal. I don't think it's hard to find information about the topic. Het begrotingstekort in Nederland is ook hoger dan 3% in Nederland. Groeten van je Nederlandse buur! @@houseplant1016
@@houseplant1016Rest of the forming coalition didn’t see major problems in finances. Based on that, dutch media concludes it was an excuse to leave negotiations. Time will tell why Omzigt quit but we can speculate it’s because of apparent incompetence of the PVV and BBB.
@@houseplant1016Rutte is quite left wing, while claiming to be right wing. He spend a lot of money, even more then the Netherlands used to spend on socialist programs (like student "loans", etc.). And in his time we also lost the gas bubble in Groningen due to earthquakes, we have a migrant crisis (which he gives and gave millions to), etc.
Yes, Ritte spend a buckload of cash.
@@BrotherHood-xh9sg Rutte is interventionist liberal, which is by definition still right wing. It just means that sometimes austerity is the right move and sometimes increasing spending is the right move. The problem is that I see this disconnect where there is seemingly a lack of system building knowledge in government, or rather, they keep making the same mistakes. When an idea gains momentum, because of politics finally aligning, they still go with it, even if genuinely valid criticism is made or it turns out they forgot to consider some aspects, causing the project to fail in the public eye. That is wasted taxes, and, I think at least, one of the problems greatly exacerbating discontent among the populace.
Also worth to note that the current prime minister has a serious chance of becoming the next head of NATO in March. Leaving us without a prime minister
PVV VVD BBB
its really hard to take this seriously
found your explanation confusing, I had to watch this "4" times before I realised you had put the PVV Party logo at the top of one shot.
I still don't know where the PVV comes in all of this?
The PVV won the most seats in parliament, and therefore are the first party that can try form a coalition. Geert Wilders is therefore the big player in these negotiations. The PVV also has the most controversial agenda.
Haha not me thinking you actually had a screenshot of the whatsapp
Honestly a minority government is the best option. It means the debates finally start mattering again. For the last several governments all decisions had already been decided in the negotiations at the start, so all debates were meaningless theatre. I hope to get back to a country where the debates actually matter.
Sounds like a Monty python sketch
A rather key thing you missed is thay the VVD immediately after elections ruled out government participation, only wanting to give confidence and supply. A move analystis say was specifically to make sure the NSC wouldnt be able to do the same, since a government with only 2 of the parties is seen as unworkable.
I think the VVD also did this so that they need less of an excuse to blow up the next coalition when they want to, claiming they were already not to sure about this. Then take seats back from the PVV in the next election. They know it will be a mess, and then they have plausible deniability, at least in the eyes of the right wing voters.
5:27 Squeak
😂 I thought it was someone near me at first
This will cause PVV to increase its lead way more. That should be the motivation for these parties, especially NSC, to try and bring Wilders a bit more to middle ground with his policies. Otherwise, with a higher share in the House, he will go back to his more radical policies.
They can try, if there is a snap election, Wilders will do far far better. People want what changes now.
If he goes back to his more extreme stances he'd lose all those votes though. That's the only reason he gained those votes in the first place. He became way more moderate in debates and speeches and people fell for it. And of course heavily related is the fact that the VVD didn't exclude them from possible coalition talks, as was the norm for the more than a decade. The moderation in debates at least and the breakdown of the Cordon Sanitaire resulted in the huge rise. If Wilders becomes more extreme again and the Cordon Sanitaire is raised again, all those new votes will be lost for sure.
@@jaspermooren5883hmm. Yeah, you changed my mind, you are right.
@@jaspermooren5883 we will see what happens to the VVD is there is another vote.
@@jaspermooren5883You’re not looking at the whole picture though. The underlying reason he got so many votes is because the Dutch are getting increasingly dissatisfied with the current status quo. Not to mention people all across Europe are getting increasingly anti-immigration. Wilders was always known for the anti-immigration guy I don’t think him being more moderate suddenly made him get the most votes. I think a survey said that 89% of PVV voters had immigration as their most concerning topic. The simple truth is that the failure to properly integrate third world immigrants is becoming more apparent to the public.
The problem with the notion of fresh elections when no coalition can be formed is that they tend to deliver almost identical results to the election that created the deadlock.
Generally, the reason people's votes change is because they react to the performance of the incumbent government (generally adversely - politicians are rarely popular - but exceptions are not unheard of). But when no government has been formed between one set of elections and the next, voters have very little reason to change their minds, and will give politicians the same impossible parliamentary arithmetic they were supposed to clear away.
Very well explained! I can imagine our system is hard to grasp in it's core. But you did a great job!
Just wanted to say I liked how much you enjoyed saying "PVV VVD and BBB" at 5:31.
One thing I want to notice is that Omtzigt did not totally abandon the talks, just this round of talks. Which means if they restart the talks with the current group of party's, he might return.
The reason for why he left is simple, for weeks the party's have been discussing the government finance, Omtzigt asked several weeks before for papers detailing the current situation. This important file was given to the party two days before the final meeting. This prompted Omtzigt to step out of the talks, as many of the things he had subscribed to during the coalition talks were not possible anymore thanks to the actual state of the finances.
as a Dutch guy who is a member of the democratic socialist party (SP) I would love a minorty government , it stops shady backrooms and forces concession and debate meaning that compromises will be the rule not the exception
Capitalism is better than socialism bud
@@machovalkarie7896 that's a opinion and capitalism and socialism is very broad and mix economics mostly work best I am a Democratic socialist I want change and a democratic world , the SP doesn't want to replicate the USSR we want a society where human dignity , equality and solidarity are central.
Thatcher is a witch and neoliberale thinking that places profit before people and privation are the root of a large part of our troubles. And you don't need neoliberale thinking and a cult of greed mentality for capitalism/mixed economics/ freedom/prosperity.
see how thats going in the us
the country is chaos, just look at texas having a standoff with the goverment @@machovalkarie7896
@@machovalkarie7896 You wouldn't be able to define either, and EVERY country is a mix of both, child.
@@earnthis1 why call me a child
2:58 is a great idea! Hope he follows through
Is that message real at 3:18 lol. If so that hilarious
Parties who define themselves by unconstructive complaining can't find common ground for actually getting things done... big surprise...
5.30... you're having some fun with it all there 😂
It's nothing, compared to UK and USA politics, whith their Brexit and their Trump.
@@emmajones8590 I think you missed my point
Geert's overall appearance reminds me of Max Shreck from Batman Returns... 😂
Regarding VVD and PvdA-Groenlinks. They have been in a coalition before. It's less unlikely than you might think. Although in this case, the tension between them is much higher.
The most likely outcome would probably still be a coalition with PVV, BBB and VVD.
It's so over.
we are Bidone
Jover
We hebben een serieus probleem
I don’t think it is over. Groenlinks-PvdA, who are the best option, still have a decent chance, so there’s no need to lose hope.
@@ASocialistTransGirl I do hope you realise I meant "it's so over that the PVV doesn't actually manage to form a coalition, and we don't see based Geert Wilders become PM."
When it suits their purposes they say its unconstitutional, when it doesn't support their purposes they do it anyway.
Congratulations on rattling out all those party letters.
It confirms that the parties on the right side only exists at EGOIST
To be fair it isn't strange that Omzicht doesn't want to be a part of this mess. The BBB don't just have little governing experience they are also seen as dangerously financially illiterate. In addition the PVV have on multiple occasions shown severe disregard for coalition partners in the past (the downfall of Rutte 2 iirc was caused by this for example). As a result the PVV are seen as generally untrustworthy in politics.
Let's just go for new elections, for pity's sake...
@@thevoid5503 This is the most likely conclusion to all this yes. Though not sure if things will be better or see the PVV get even bigger. That is the fear back home anyway.
@@Lordblow1 My fear too,but there is a slight hope in me that the electorate will punish the PVV.
untrue, PVV stopped the coalition because they were against leess money for healtcare, now we have closing hospitls.... BBB is perfectly capable they have people that understand it. Just false news to make them look bad.
@@erik7853 Wasn't the public reason issues over migration? I see no reason they wouldn't publicly refute a misrepresentation to let a cabinet fall. Do you maybe have a source?
Do you even have someone who follows the Dutch news in your team? Some of your biggest mistakes:
1) The formation did not collapse at all. Omtzigt was simply done talking for this round.
2) You somehow failed to mention that Omtzigt is done talking because Plasterk seems to have withheld financial information until their final talk about finances. He will probably ask to replace him this week.
3) A way more likely outcome than a government with PvdA/GL or snap elections is a so-called extraparliamentary government, with neutral ministers from outside of politics. All the politicians would stay in parliament and work with multiple majorities.
Please get better or be more honest. This is just bad guesswork and extremely lazy """research"""...
1) Being done talking is what a collapse looks like.
2) Replacing Plasterk will not fundamentally alter the dynamics of negotiations which Omtzigt cited as further cause for tge collapse.
3) while an extraparliamentary government is possible, it is no more likely than one led by GLPvdA.
How ridiculous. If a government cannot form a coalition they should be diminished or barred from forming new government.
You're not talking sense.
love how with the BBB you are trying to pronounce her name the dutch way, while it's actually pronounced in the english way instead ( in her case that is ).
There are other small right/far-right parties that could take the right to a majority (just) without the NSC.
Ask public... snap election.
well seems germany will face the same problem next year in the election where afd is strong but who wants a coaltion with them
A minority government with Wilders would be deeply ironic, as he pulled the rug out from Rutte I when budget negotiations didn't go his way. Would Wilders pull support for his own cabinet as well if he doesn't get his way?
His pull out game is weak
IMAO, opposition to the 'spreidingswet' is cynical, preventing the dispersal of refugees and keeping them concentrated in a camp that can't cope with the numbers.
This arguably leads to the problem appearing more acute, keeping it newsworthy/easier to report on.
It does nothing to reduce the influx of refugees, but it does lead to real (localised) problems, making the problem appear to be insurmountable.
I watered down my first draft after discussing misinformation aspects with Google Gemini.
Gemini drafted a much more neutral version of my post:
"The 'spreidingswet' aims to disperse refugees, potentially alleviating pressure on specific locations and aiding integration. However, some argue that concentrated camps might offer easier access to resources and foster community spirit. Opposing dispersal could have consequences like continued strain on current facilities and heightened media attention. It's important to consider various perspectives and potential outcomes before forming strong opinions."
In my opinion the "spreadingwet" could be good.
It forces cities that don't pull their weight to do their part.
But it's a band-aid, it doesn't solve the issues of sustaining the asylum seekers, housing them in the country and the welfare and health care burden of having them in the country.
So i the short term it dilutes the problems, but unless they solve it at the root (the influx of those people)
the problem will continue, and it will get bigger and bigger.
Places that vote for migration friendly parties should take 2 times there share. They want them there anyways
@@electricangel4488sure, let's halve social benefits in places that vote against social spending too then
@@Merugaf i asume those place can also reject paying for them then.
see thats the point. are the people that vote for it gonne bear the burden of bringing it to the people.
The Dutch need to come up with better party names! Every damn letter in their acronym sound similiar, all im hearing is VVD or a variant of it 🤣
I feel like the effort put into pronounciation of Dutch words was way better this time. Its still not perfect, but I am seeing progress. I also think that Jack's pronounciation of the Dutch r makes him sound like he's from Limburg, the same place as Wilders.
HAHAHHAHA. What you say now...
Omtzigt's reputation as a good governance politician would, in my opinion, also be ruined by going into a coalition with the PVV due to its undemocratic party structure (it is, after all, a party of one, and every politician elected under the PVV banner is at the mercy of Wilders).
Omtzigt doesn't need the PVV to have his reputation being destroyed... 😉
PVV isnt unconstitutional as you say. the constitution in the netherlands can be changed with 100/150 votes.
Yes, but he said undemocratic. Good point to make, though. @@chunkykong1976
Technically speaking, the PVV isn't even a proper party.
Which is a problem for Wilders if he has to make some party "members" ministers. He will lose control. What is he going to do? Fire a minister?
The pronunciation of Dutch names was pretty good here. The biggest mistake was going too Dutch on a name: Caroline van der Plas has an Irish mother who has given her an English name, so you just pronounce her first name as in English.
Such a controversial, difficult figure would find it difficult to hold up against a resilient democracy
The BMC can not work with the STD, unless the BMW gives their majority to the MBA.
Hilarious 😂😂😂😂😂
The last thing we need is more STD...
what the fuck does this mean
@@ASocialistTransGirl An English-speaker making fun of the Dutch parties' abbreviations because they're ignorant of what those parties & their names stand for. It's easier to make fun of something than it is to try & understand it.
Or perhaps they really think that: "the British Mountaineering Council cannot work with the Sexually Transmitted Disease, unless the Bayerische Motoren Werke gave their majority to the Master of Business Administration..."
To be fair though, it does sound funny & props to tldr for mastering the avalanche of three letter names. 🙂
@@LeafHuntress oh okay
It is GeErt Wilders not Gert Wilders and Van der plas instead of Ven der plas 😂
En het is MiereNneuker!
It's just a last stand by the old ruler's to try to hold on to power. The only problem for VVD and NSC is that they are digging their own graves by being stubborn. When new elections will be held, Wilders together with BBB will have enough seats in parlement to rule by themselves. I'm Dutch, and voted for Wilders. I know people who voted VVD and NSC, and almost all of them said they would vote for Wilders if new elections have to be held. That means that those people feel betrayed by their parties. Just like the Dutch have been betrayed by our pro US/ Israeli government over the last 12 years.
Polls show that they will still come short of a majority. PVV gets 50 (they have 37) now and BBB gets 7-10. He still needs like 16 more seats from other parties (and those polls give VDD 13, so a fourth party is still needed). New elections won't work for anyone
'Wilders together with BBB will have enough seats in parlement to rule by themselves'
In your dreams. They won't. All those extra seats for the PVV have come from other right wing parties, including the BBB. That party is now down to 7 seats and shrinking. Probably end up at about 5. Could be even less, if the voters want to support Wilders instead.
Wilders is not going to get 70 seats.
'I know people who voted VVD and NSC, and almost all of them said they would vote for Wilders'
And most of the people I know where I know what they voted, would never vote for Wilders, under any circumstances.
But that's just an anecdote, like your predictions.
Take a look at the polls. Wilders is doing very well.
But then so was NSC a few months back. And BBB a year previously. And FVD was the largest party, for a short time, about 5 years back.
If new elections come now, because Wilders can't form a coalition, he will probably still do well, but he will have exactly the same problem as he has now.
@@j.t.6741 polls also showed that Wilders wouldn't be no 1 before last elections, and look what happened. And it's not just the Netherlands, it's happening all over Europe. People are fed up with corruption.
There is also a fourth one a which is a bit of an experiment having ministers who don’t affiliate with the parties but who are just good at what they do like a hospital boss doing the ministry of health and a general being I charge of defense. There would be no coalition and every issue would get debated about creating some wild things. This would be democracy at its best as the parties are not bound to coalition agreements which ca be as long as 50 pages.
I really hope the centre-left can come together to form a government based on not letting the far-right be able to form one just like what happened in Poland
Yeah no thanks i dont need to read the communist manifesto.
@@pietervanderzwaan4295 brother if you think GL-PVDA is gonna make you read the communist manifesto you have some seriously twisted world views
If they attempt a centre left coalition it is highly unlikely that they would involve the BBB, sure they won't have a majority in the first chambers, but the BBB is pretty much diametrically opposed to the positions of the green labour alliance
Actually they don't need the BBB to have a majority. GLPVDA, VVD, D66 and NSC would have 78 seats together, whereas they need just 76 to have a majority.
@@Zeyox96 that's in the Dutch "tweede kamer".
But that is where laws get thought of.
Then they have to give those laws to the "eerste kamer" (what others would call, the senate) and there they decide if it becomes a new law or if it gets rejected.
And in the senate they beed BBB for a majority.
If you only dominate one of the 2, you are at the mercy of "outsiders" to have your laws be accepted.
So you need an majority in both chambers to make some real changes.
@@Zeyox96 That's why I said first chamber, not second chamber
@@basvriese1934 Ahh sorry, I misread, my bad.
@Zeyox96 You are insane if you think this will happen
Give it time the world is getting sick of the way things are run by government
5:46 Mark Rutte is back and Rob Jetten switched to VVD??
A center left government would be the best choice.
Man alive Dutch politics is messy.
Send help
Wait till the Belgian elections hehe
All politics is messy, the Netherlands is just a bit more transparent & lets you vote FOR something instead of choosing between the two worst options.
That Whatsapp "screenshot" though 😅
In option 2 the BBB isn't necessary
They have 16 seats in the Senate
Is looking like Poland.
Thats the dream. Savety, gdp, no terrorism.
We'd all like that.@@electricangel4488
Caroline is actually pronounced in the English way, so it was quite funny to see you struggling trying to pronounce it the Dutch way.
I've always liked our multi-party system, but there should be additional regulations to speed up the process to form a government. They should give the nr one party two months to form a coalition, after which the nr two party will be given a shot and if all else fails, there should be new elections after 6 months, like in Spain.
I also think we should be able to vote directly for a prime minister. Many people voted against PvdA because they didn't want Timmermans as PM. But yeah, that would probably only make it more complicated.
In Netherlands, one party never gets full power and they struggle passing laws in Parliament
I grew up in the UK and I much prefer the system we have here in the Netherlands.
Proportional representation and a coalition co-operation between at least two parties.
It stops wannabe dictators in their tracks and prevents real idiots taking complete power.
I hat that two party, first past the post, winner takes it all system with the constituencies and the gerrymandering and the possibility for one party to take complete power with maybe a third or less of the votes.
The American system is even worse than the UK, with it's ridiculous electoral college.
It happens regularily that the losing party in that two party system, gets to take complete power and the top job.
The entire political system there is also incredibly complicated.
There are plenty of laws passed here. But they are well discussed before hand and a vote is taken on whether to implement or reject them.
I prefer that. One man with complete or way too much power, smacks of dictatorship.
VVD has already ruled out working with GL-PvdA. If Omzigt doesn’t change his mind that probably means that there will be a re-election which means PVV will go from 37/150 seats to 50/150 seats according to recent polls. Also Omzigt handled this really bad, the other parties had to hear it from the news that he wouldn’t continue talks after which he send them a text.
Edit: now it would be 52/150 in which you could theoretically get this coalition PVV, VVD, BBB, SGP.
Yesh the MSC really screwed this up.
Even if their reasons are just, they just (kinda) ghosted the others in the formation talks.
They just stopped coming to the talks.
And so if new elections would be held, NSC would lose votes.
And most of those lost votes will end up going to PVV.
Because: yes PVV might not be the solution to all the problems in The Netherlands, but at least they come up with ideas that might lessen the problems.
While VVD, CDA and D66 have had years to solve these problems and haven't done anything about it.
And most left parties do have nice ideas, but they want to change things to fast and that will impact a lot of lives in a bad way.
So they have to give good solutions for the people that will be impacted by their proposed policies. otherwise will never vote for them.
VVD also ruled out forming a coalition with PVV (just support), yet here we are. I wouldn't count too much on their words. I think a coalition with pvda/gl might be less bad for VVD than new elections.
@@Tinky1rs indeed, this is just powerplay by the VVD. We do not want to, so give us something extra and we will play ball. It's what they always do, and the reason the last coalition of Rutte was off to a bad start.
If the polls say that PVV would gain seats in an election (as they currently do), you can bet that the other parties aren´t going to be interested in that for at least a few years, full stop. Which again, leaves them the choice of either massively tying Wilders´ hands but still letting him be PM, or the centre-left coalition, pick one.
Now if the public becomes convinced that Wilders `blew it` and his support collapses, THEN they would trigger an elction immediatly, but that´s still a ways off.
@@Tinky1rsyet a lot of vvd voters were in favor of working with the pvv so in the event of a reelection this might hurt the vvd a bit.
In simple Dutch: 'We zijn de lul.'
A center coalition is possible but not feasible. As many commenters have already pointed out, the BBB and the Labour Greens coalition are diametrically opposed when it comes to environmental issues. As such, the BBB will never agreed to this. But while the remaining options can still form a majority, this is not straightforward either because the center left wants to up government spending to finance the transition to renewables and to ensure a more stable financial situation for its citizens - farmers included, for that matter.
However, this would either blow the budget (which NSC would oppose) or rely on increasing taxation on the wealthy (which the VVD historically opposes).
And even if an ostensible center coalition of the VVD, Labour, NSC and D66 can be hammered out, without the BBB they would still lack a majority in the Senate (29 out of the needed 38 seats). There are ways around this over both the right and left flank of the senate, but its hardly ideal.
Still beats new elections.
Suggesting a coalition with both Pvda/GL and D66 on the one hand and BBB on the other seems pretty ridiculous to me when looking at it from the perspective of Pvda/GL and D66. They are ideologically very dissimilar to BBB and the BBB seats wouldn't even be necessary for a majority. Why would you even suggest this as an option? Purely because of the senate?
Basically only for the senate.