As soon as you said "choose base" I knew 2 things: 1. I won't learn how to create cool non-positional system 2. Conlang Critic will show up yelling "SEXIMAL"
*"But what about counting yams by the... uh, groups of 6 yams?"* Literally me explaining anything. Note to self: exclusively use yams to measure things.
@@pierreabbat6157 base 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
Isaac DeVera We first have to know when OA is done. Personally, I don’t know How the heck anyone can say they’re done with a conlang. I wish I knew cuz I’m still working on mine. But I do have multiple.
He recently said that he's not going to talk about tutorial conlangs because it would be less of a critique of the conlang and more of a critique of the tutorials.
@@livedandletdie all I was saying was that Edgar has made it abundantly clear 12 is his favourite, so he would obviously need an excuse not to use his favourite if he doesn't think it fits with the culture when making a conlang. I never said anything about which one was better. And he's making a world to go along with it, so our modern society makes no difference.
SystemofEleven Six and twelve are both good, as they both have the advantage of being highly composite numbers. 16 is the square of a highly composite number, but that number is only called highly composite because it’s the smallest composite number.
@@ragnkja Sure, but why is six supposedly "better" than twelve? Since twelve has twice as many factors and includes six as one of said factors, and writing in heximal requires significantly more digits to express large whole numbers, the only thing that might be going for base 6 is that reciprocal simplicity thing CC was talking about (which isn't included on the chart and I am not up for doing butt tons of calculations right now, so maybe not even that).
I would die if that happened. My body would implode. There would be no point in living after watching that, because that's the best that thing could ever be
@@JL-ti3us I feel like it'd only work if they all built a world and a civilization from the ground up over a few months of videos, with each person contributing to it. Worldbuilding Notes could do the illustrations, Biblaridion and Conlang Critic could do the language, and everybody adds their own flavor to the stew. It would either end as an amazing masterpiece or a flop with too many cooks in the kitchen.
There's also a typo in the chart - futAtsu, not futtsu. I also found characterizing Japanese as having exactly seven sets of number words to be confusing. Ignoring some irregularities, Japanese has one set of native number morphemes: (hito 1, futa 2, mi 3, yo 4, etc.) , and one set of number morphemes borrowed from Chinese (ichi 1, ni 2, san 3, shi 4, etc.). Japanese also has many (more than seven!) sets of counter morphemes for different semantic classes of nouns, and number words from one or the other set combine with a counter in a phonologically-predictable way. "Hitotsu" is (native) "hito" + the counter "tsu", so "1-generic-thing" (then futa-tsu, mit-tsu, etc.). "Ikkai" is a predictable reduction of "*ichi-kai", "1-floor" (and then ni-kai, san-kai, etc.), "ichinichi" is "ichi-nichi", "1-day" (and then ni-nichi, san-nichi) ,and so on.
I was literally about to post that exact comment haha, compete with the "how cute" Number words in Japanese is basically never ending, I'm not sure I've ever seen a page with all of them
In this case I'll have to agree with jan.misali base 6 is better. although personally I use base 37 when I count on my hands. totaling up at 1368 at the last position. It's really useful for when you're counting stuff and most other counting systems is not sufficient.
Oh, I didn't know other languages had whole other sets of numbers for counting! In my part of Manila, I've noticed people often use Tagalog numbers to count things, Spanish numbers to tell the time, talk about grades, or for specific amounts of money (10, 15, 20 and 50), and English for very large numbers... or maybe it's just me
@@mortimer687 True. Although Tagalized Spanish numbers. Like Bente for 20 instead of Vente or _Singkwenta_ for 50 instead of _Cincuenta_ . Also, for money specifically, 1 is almost always _Piso_ or _Isang Piso_ instead of _Uno_ . For grades, I've only ever heard them in English.
@@bitterlemonboy I know Javascript, Java, C#, HTML... I could go on. And yes, I have programmed in raw binary instructions. (Don't mind me, just flexing for no reason.) *Read More*
RIGHT? I went through to trig in high school, and statistics in college-- and this was NEVER taught. They should be teaching this shit in grade school.
I know what you're talking about with the latter, but it barely even counts as a number system. It more accurately translates as none, some, much, and a lot than any defined numerical value. They still are significant as number words, though.
Japanese has way more than seven "number words" and they are called counters. An example of a counter very commonly used in Japanese that is not part of the table shown at 6:26 is the counter for animals (or _hiki_ 匹 counter), which has the first three numbers: _ippiki_ 一匹, _nihiki_ 二匹 and _sanbiki_ 三匹. Now since the table shown at 6:26 only provides six counters and jan Misali said "seven", I shall provide another counter bringing the amount I have demonstrated to eight (more than the seven stated); this is the counter for books (or the _satsu_ 冊 counter), which has the first three numbers: _issatsu_ 一冊, _nisatsu_ 二冊 and _sansatsu_ 三冊. I hope this shows that Japanese has more than seven number words.
Do you mean something along the lines of Ternary, but using ±1 and 0 as the digits; meaning "5"_10 could be represented as "1 -1 -1"_3 ? That would certainly make counting interesting: 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 -1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 -1 -1 1 -1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 -1 1 1 0 1 1 1 and so on.
@@etiennemassart2030 Not really. In regular, unsigned ternary, the first time you'd flip the digit that stands for 3^1 would be when actually reaching 3. In this situation however you already flip it when reaching 2, because you actually say "1*3 +(-1)*1". It would probably be more obvious with a bigger base (as well as more interesting - do you allow any digit do become negative? Only certain ones? Do you keep it bijective or can a number be represented differently? Etc.)
you should start adding the corresponding Oa glyphs along side the translations of phrases, I would really be interested to see what these phrases look like written in Oa glyphs
Yeah, I had to rewind and check that, because I thought maybe he'd said it in Irish and just pronounced it wrong - "sia leabhair" is "six books" in Irish.
@@msolec2000 I'm pretty sure that's not the reason, or at least, not the only reason. Also, he's not a 12-hater, he just prefers base 6. And, what's with this insult?
oren Anything where the smallest is at one end, the largest is at the other end, and everything in between is in increasing/decreasing order is sensible.
i didnt read the title properly, and only realised that yan Misali when he suddenly popped in, even though i kinda expected him to come up as soon as i heard 12
6:24 "The 7 distinct sets of number words used in Japanese". There is also the simple 'zero, ichi, ni, san, yon/shi, go, roku, nana/shichi, hachi, ku/kyuu, juu' in Japanese, as well as the near-infiite amount of counter words. 2 birds = niwa. 2 boxs = futahako. And there are plenty more. Japanese is so lovely :D
@@angeldude101 I've always seen it written as nibble in the context of computers and binary numbers as well. Never seen it when referring to a hexadecimal digit (apart from when discussing that 4 bits can be translated to 1 hexadecimal digit).
Japanese is bit tricky considering "number words", as they have more like "suffixes", and while there's under a dozen of those that are used most commonly, if you don't want to have any problems, there's dozens of them, and in principle you can learn hundreds, even though that's highly impractical use of your time.
I've used base 5 for my main culture for years, it just comes from the number of fingers in one hand. Since it's very important number for them, they also divide the human life into 5 year periods which comes into play in their laws about coming of age and such things. I'm planning base 12 for my other culture who are traders, so they would benefit from a more mathematically useful system. Also a neat trick about naming numbers: in Finnish 8 (kahdeksan) literally means 10-2 and nine (yhdeksän) 10-1.
Yes, there are many languages around the planet which still do, or have in the past, used phrases like "one from ten" for nine, or "two from ten" for eight. It's perfectly fine. A few languages might even use "three from ten" for seven. Ainu seems to do this. It's also a vigesimal system.
I've been going with base 8 for my 4-fingered elves, but after watching this I'm more open to 16. I've never seen such a thorough, easy explanation of different bases before. Thanks for dumbing it down :)
3:06 Oh i get it! How have i never realized before now that this is because if you don't really eat food properly you just take a "nibble" out of it, which is smaller than a "bite" of food, and that's why half a byte is a nybble! This is something i only realized like the third time around watching this video, and having heard a nybble MANY times before!!
Prepare for an angry comment from me about how you didn't even mention signed-digit bases, once I've finished watching the video. This is what I've become: a guy who watches videos expecting and planning on getting angry that his very specific favorite thing about a subject wasn't mentioned. Oh dear.
I prefer balanced bases over negative ones, but my absolute favorites are positional non-additives. Yes, every real number can be approximated as a sum of powers of any non-zero, non-one real number, and there’s a finite representation for every integer, but the same is true for the product of primes. I created a system where every natural number is represented by its prime factorization, and it turns out it works quite well (except for zero, it’s not on my records and therefore doesn’t exist). Rational numbers are represented with negative indexes, and you can use a continued fraction to generate approximations for irrationals.
My first finnished number system is kinda weird. It uses base 12 AND 5, which is to say you count units untill you have a dozen, then dozens untill you have 5 dozen, known as a flock, then count untill you have 5 flock, known as a horde, and then count untill 12 hordes.
As has been noted in other comments, there are WAY more counters in Japanese. In addition to the ones you listed, there are e.g. 匹 hiki (small-ish pets/animals). 本 hon (cylindrical objects), 枚 mai (flat objects, like paper, which also happens to be one of the few words using a couter in English: 5 sheets of paper), 頁 pe-ji (pages of a book. Uses a reading derived from English these days, for whatever reason), 冊 satsu (for bound objects, like books themselves), 首 shu (songs or poems), 台 tai (machines), 回 kai and 度 do (times as in occurrences), 倍 bai (times as in multiplication/amounts), 代 dai (ages or generations) and many more. Of course there's also the obvious ones that map pretty cleanly to units as most languages use them, e.g 年 nen (year), 週 shuu (week), 円 en (yen as in currency) and others, though a lot of SI units just use borrowed words. Finally there's an odd one: 第 dai which is used to create ordinals (mostly written or formal contexts) and it is odd in that it's a prefix instead of a suffix. Japanese numbers are actually a ton of fun (also because of how the writing works, as traditionally the radices are explicitly specified as in 五万七 "5 ten-thousand 7", kind of like how it is actually spoken in most languages), though all the different counters sure are something to wrap one's head around. It's actually even a problem for some Japanese, so in recent years usage of つ tsu, which is technically the counter for small objects, as a kind of catch-all counter has increased, especially among young speakers.
There was actually an article out there that mathematically determined the best base to use, by giving weighted scores, for example, more digits to memorize reduces score, more digits for a given number also reduces score, a higher number of divisors raises score, etc. Guess what, 12 wins, with 60, 30, and 6 as good options.
I mean depending on the society wouldn't having a neat structure make sense? I'm far from an expert but Korean's writing system was specifically designed to ensure it made sense and promote literacy, although I guess there aren't many cultures that set out to do that.
I love how you did your numbers. This is exactly how the D'ni numbers in the Myst books and games are written, but 1-4, up to 24. Also note how the numbers resemble the D'ni alphabet.
kalez238 Actually, D’ni numbers are base 25 subdivided into fives, and 5, 10, 15 and 20 look like 1, 2, 3 and 4 rotated 90°. 6 is formed by layering 1 and 5, 8 by layering 3 and 5, 19 by layering 4 and 15 and so on.
My constructed numerical system is based on a base5 mainly due to the symbols i use for numbers, a stripe with one spike is 1 etc till 5 when it gets a circle and repeat that till ten when it becomes a wing. It's supposed to be similar to plumage of birds. This gave me a lot of ideas to improve on it, thanks a lot
TRiG (Ireland) Danish counting is just weird. The other Germanic languages may have (or have previously had, in the case of Norwegian) the units between the hundreds and the tens, but Danish is the only language that calls 50 “halfway to three score”.
Darn, I was really freaking excited for base 12, but my hopes were dashed almost immediately. :/ Would you be willing to adapt it to 12? I personally feel like 12 is a neglected base for new number systems, and I've heard tons of great things about it.
I always thought that if I created a new number system I would do base 8 for the simplification of it being a power of 2 and also less characters makes it easier to have numbers that don't look or sound the same, but I guess if someone were to grow up learning it that wouldn't be much of a problem.
how do you get the 7 kinds of numerals in Japanese? I can think of two ways to dived them into different kinds. 1st On/Kun reading (ichi/hitotsu) which is 2, or noun classifiers which is much more than 7. (hitotsu/ippai/ ichimai/ tsuitachi/ hitori/ ippon/ ikkagetsu/ ichisai/ ...)
I wondered about that, too, but I think it's the way they morph. ippon, nihon, sanbon ippun, nifun, sanbun would be counted as a single group, even though they use different counters. They would, however, be different from issai, nisai, sansai, despite both using onyomi. Do you get to 7 with this? Plausible, but I'm not sure.
I don't like your numeral system because almost all of them look like a different one upside down. It would make it inconvenient for day-to-day use, or on objects that don't have a clear up-and-down, like the numbers on dice, or the sizing of wrench sockets, or for reading papers at a glance. I think they should all be more distinct from each other.
I was recommended this video out of context, with no background. I assumed he was talking about creating a number system for a computer language for the longest time until he started discussing how to write the numerals. I was so increasingly dismayed by the intentional messiness up until that point, until it clicked what was going on. Cool video, I'd never thought much about this topic before.
@@Motofanable biologically how does base 12 map to us? Is it because it is a multiple of 4, given we have 4 fingers? Or is there something else I'm missing
8:01 I recently heard about a study on the frequency of verb regularization, and it actually turns out that the more commonly a word is used, the fewer changes it goes through, so I think it would be the other way around. But then again, "one" has no similarity with "first," "two" has no similarity with "second," then "three" is pretty similar to "third," and from fourth to ninth they're all just basically the adding of "-th" to the number.
I'm sure it's already been said, but won't you need to update your flag, or at least redefine the 12 pointed star thing. Also, 9:56 took me out of the moment for a bit. Not often I hear my name - let alone to mean 256.
I have watched your video, and I shall now complain that you didn't so much as mention signed-digit bases. My dudes, signed digits are literally the coolest thing, and you didn't even /mention/ them! Come on, guys, you argued for ages about seximal vs dosenal, but you can't even /bring up/ signed digits? I am disappointed.
As soon as you said "choose base" I knew 2 things:
1. I won't learn how to create cool non-positional system
2. Conlang Critic will show up yelling "SEXIMAL"
S E X I M A L
Heximal? :/
Oh hex is 16 not 6 :(
@@Ardorstorm hexagon
@@lhgs7289 sexagon
"I heard someone imply that dozenal is the best numbering system, so I just sort of materialized."
Yeah, that seems about right.
*"But what about counting yams by the... uh, groups of 6 yams?"*
Literally me explaining anything. Note to self: exclusively use yams to measure things.
Yam languages, such as Arammba, use base 6.
As long as you use proper yams, and not "yams" that are sweet potatoes.
@@pierreabbat6157 base 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
@@pierreabbat6157 What if I make a science number system that's more scientific notation than normal number systems
@@want-diversecontent3887 So expanded notation/form but each number is described by scientific notation?
This was great
hi atlas pro
love your vids
K
The crossover we all knew we needed
Agreed.
Yes
True but I could never predict it.
The only problem I have with having jan.misali in a video is you may hear the worst language ever invented. Toki Pona..
@@livedandletdie toki pona li ike mute tawa sina tan seme?
Base 32’s representation of 1/9 is amazing.
It contains the word “hose”, and I find that property funny for some reason.
and 1/13 has m4th
That is only if you represent 10+ as A+
But if you use other shapes, then you obviously wouldn't get this effect.
it just screams hose at you over and over again lmao. 0.3HOSE73HOSE73HOSE73HOSE73HOSE73HOSE7...
@@falpsdsqglthnsac hehe 3 hose 73 hose
Same
The only thing that'll make things better is that Conlang Critic talks about Artifexian's language OA.
He probably won’t until it’s done
But he should do it at some point, it would be nice
Isaac DeVera We first have to know when OA is done. Personally, I don’t know How the heck anyone can say they’re done with a conlang. I wish I knew cuz I’m still working on mine. But I do have multiple.
Mr you have got 666 likes
He recently said that he's not going to talk about tutorial conlangs because it would be less of a critique of the conlang and more of a critique of the tutorials.
I feel like Conlang Critic was only here so Artifexian could come with a reason why he chose 16 rather than 12...
16 is better than 12. At least it's more useful in modern society, 6 is a lot better than both 12 and 16 and 8 and 10 for that matter.
@@livedandletdie all I was saying was that Edgar has made it abundantly clear 12 is his favourite, so he would obviously need an excuse not to use his favourite if he doesn't think it fits with the culture when making a conlang. I never said anything about which one was better. And he's making a world to go along with it, so our modern society makes no difference.
@@livedandletdie Why is 6 better than 12, again?
SystemofEleven
Six and twelve are both good, as they both have the advantage of being highly composite numbers. 16 is the square of a highly composite number, but that number is only called highly composite because it’s the smallest composite number.
@@ragnkja Sure, but why is six supposedly "better" than twelve? Since twelve has twice as many factors and includes six as one of said factors, and writing in heximal requires significantly more digits to express large whole numbers, the only thing that might be going for base 6 is that reciprocal simplicity thing CC was talking about (which isn't included on the chart and I am not up for doing butt tons of calculations right now, so maybe not even that).
Notice how after he says Toki Pona, he just starts to list conlangs that you will hate after watching Conlang Critic's video on it.
"Votgil"
*"Vötgil"*
“I’m a bit excited”
vöt- vötgil
9:06 _"Why not a threesome of goats?"_ -Conlang Critic, 2019.
Edgar: >translates it
2019? more like:
hinor i la?as i nolo
@@daffa_fm4583 hingor i la'as i ngolo
Where’s the big collab with Biblaridion, Worldbuilding Notes, Conlang Critic, Xidnaf, WASD20, Stoneworks and James Tullos all in one video?
I would die if that happened. My body would implode. There would be no point in living after watching that, because that's the best that thing could ever be
Holy shit
That would be the most amazing worldbuilding video ever made
@@JL-ti3us I feel like it'd only work if they all built a world and a civilization from the ground up over a few months of videos, with each person contributing to it. Worldbuilding Notes could do the illustrations, Biblaridion and Conlang Critic could do the language, and everybody adds their own flavor to the stew. It would either end as an amazing masterpiece or a flop with too many cooks in the kitchen.
I hope this happens. Also, thanks for the new channels.
nice
Sure is, Misali.
e
Only 2 replies?
@@opposing No, there's more
toki anus
"Seven distinct sets of number words in Japanese"
Oh how cute, he thinks there's only seven :B
Perhaps he meant 7 "major" ones. But yeah, it is tough with Japanese
There's also a typo in the chart - futAtsu, not futtsu. I also found characterizing Japanese as having exactly seven sets of number words to be confusing. Ignoring some irregularities, Japanese has one set of native number morphemes: (hito 1, futa 2, mi 3, yo 4, etc.) , and one set of number morphemes borrowed from Chinese (ichi 1, ni 2, san 3, shi 4, etc.). Japanese also has many (more than seven!) sets of counter morphemes for different semantic classes of nouns, and number words from one or the other set combine with a counter in a phonologically-predictable way. "Hitotsu" is (native) "hito" + the counter "tsu", so "1-generic-thing" (then futa-tsu, mit-tsu, etc.). "Ikkai" is a predictable reduction of "*ichi-kai", "1-floor" (and then ni-kai, san-kai, etc.), "ichinichi" is "ichi-nichi", "1-day" (and then ni-nichi, san-nichi) ,and so on.
You’re cool sanny. You want a Japanese award?🥇
I was literally about to post that exact comment haha, compete with the "how cute"
Number words in Japanese is basically never ending, I'm not sure I've ever seen a page with all of them
@@RammusTheArmordillo all you really need to know is 一十百千万億兆 and even then, the last two don't get used that often
"Not all bases are created equal." That sounds pretty bassist.
now i'm not bassist, BUT... instruments are not created equal and the instruments will higher registrers need to respect their superiors.
All bases are created equal but some bases are more equal than others
Yeah, I'm a bacist. I hate Suboptimal.
But, in your video, titled "The Oa Writing System," you had a Mayan inspired base 12 because, "12 is jolly, 10 is folly."
Well, that was 3 years ago. He decided to take the number system in a different direction.
Mayan also used base 20
@@MrTrilbe He means the glyphs were Mayan-inspired, not the base, as the symbols were sort of like a multi-radix tally system.
He changed it because "12!" "6!" "*12!*" "*6!*"
In this case I'll have to agree with jan.misali base 6 is better. although personally I use base 37 when I count on my hands. totaling up at 1368 at the last position. It's really useful for when you're counting stuff and most other counting systems is not sufficient.
Oh, I didn't know other languages had whole other sets of numbers for counting! In my part of Manila, I've noticed people often use Tagalog numbers to count things, Spanish numbers to tell the time, talk about grades, or for specific amounts of money (10, 15, 20 and 50), and English for very large numbers... or maybe it's just me
This basically applies to pretty much our entire nation. Tagalog is used for counting, but most of the time, Spanish and English is used.
I think counting in Tagalog is more complicated if you think about code-switching and which nimbers to use in which instance...but yeah
@@mortimer687 True. Although Tagalized Spanish numbers. Like Bente for 20 instead of Vente or _Singkwenta_ for 50 instead of _Cincuenta_ . Also, for money specifically, 1 is almost always _Piso_ or _Isang Piso_ instead of _Uno_ . For grades, I've only ever heard them in English.
@@moondust2365 small correction: It's actually veinte in Spanish
@@ArielGoV Oh, okay. Thanks! ^^
"Oh, Jan Misali from Conlang Critic- what are you doing here?" Smooth hahaha love it
222 likes ayyyyy, also the j in jan isn’t capital
You made my day when you said base 12
And then dashed my hopes against the rocks...
But I’m a programmer and approve base 16 as well
You probably only program javascript, and you don't even probably know what binary means
@@bitterlemonboy Talk about unnecessarily insulting a stranger.
@@bitterlemonboy I program javascript, and I *do* know binary.
@@bitterlemonboy I know Javascript, Java, C#, HTML... I could go on. And yes, I have programmed in raw binary instructions.
(Don't mind me, just flexing for no reason.)
*Read More*
This is the first time I've ever understood alternative bases, due to the first explanation, thank you so much Edgar
buddy you haven't even watch the vid yet don't even act like you have 😂😂
Me too! Great video.
same hat, I always had trouble getting it until now!
RIGHT? I went through to trig in high school, and statistics in college-- and this was NEVER taught. They should be teaching this shit in grade school.
oh btw for context ludvis posted his comment like 2 minutes after it was uploaded XD
You pronounced Na'vi like it was originally supposed to be pronounced. My appreciation for you has grown.
I'M SO EXCITED! I've needed to make a number system really badly
Vötgil vötgil im a bit excited
Bluemon you know what zese!
Δ Δ yeah. It needs to chilll out, like IS with its whole mess of central vowels.
Δ Δ yeah and ö for [ɑ] is so weird. Like maybe ä for [a] and a for the other.
ｉ’ｍａｂｉｔｅｘｃｉｔｅｄ
7:07 A race with five fingers and four knuckles could count to sixteen on just one hand the same way we can count to twelve. No need to use toes.
a race with five fingers and three knuckles, like humans, can too, just count the knuckles themselves plus the tip of the fingers
The documentary "The Linguists" features a language whose number base switches between ten and twenty as you count.
I heard of this language. Its from europe i think. Across from UK.
@@abdulmuhaimin9780 In this case, it was a little-known Indian language. But many do something similar. It's a good documentary.
You mean French?
Cornish does this too
@@electroflame6188 gotta love the French number system
French: 1-10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, English: :D
French: Ten-seven, ten-eight, ten-nine, twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two...
English: :)
French: sixty-nine....... Sixty-ten (70), sixty-eleven (71), sixty-twelve....
English: :O
French: :)
French: Four-twenty (80)....
English: >:O
French: Four-twenty-one (81), four-twenty-two... Four-twenty-ten (90), Four-twenty-eleven (91), four-twenty-twelve (92)...
English: @,____,@
I love the aesthetic of Conlang Critic's visuals with Artifexian's smooth editing. Great video!
The most interesting bases: 12 base and the "0, 1, 2, many"
I know what you're talking about with the latter, but it barely even counts as a number system. It more accurately translates as none, some, much, and a lot than any defined numerical value. They still are significant as number words, though.
Japanese has way more than seven "number words" and they are called counters. An example of a counter very commonly used in Japanese that is not part of the table shown at 6:26 is the counter for animals (or _hiki_ 匹 counter), which has the first three numbers: _ippiki_ 一匹, _nihiki_ 二匹 and _sanbiki_ 三匹. Now since the table shown at 6:26 only provides six counters and jan Misali said "seven", I shall provide another counter bringing the amount I have demonstrated to eight (more than the seven stated); this is the counter for books (or the _satsu_ 冊 counter), which has the first three numbers: _issatsu_ 一冊, _nisatsu_ 二冊 and _sansatsu_ 三冊. I hope this shows that Japanese has more than seven number words.
isn't it close to 300 ? I'm learning (aka trying to learn) japanese right now and I ran across an article about it... yikes
No, but seriously, signed digits are actually the coolest thing, and I'm really disappointed that they weren't mentioned here.
Do you mean something along the lines of
Ternary, but using ±1 and 0 as the digits; meaning "5"_10 could be represented as "1 -1 -1"_3
?
That would certainly make counting interesting:
0 0 0
0 0 1
0 1 -1
0 1 0
0 1 1
1 -1 -1
1 -1 0
1 0 0
1 0 1
1 1 -1
1 1 0
1 1 1
and so on.
what?
@@entropyzero5588 well that's just -1 as a digit
@@etiennemassart2030 Not really.
In regular, unsigned ternary, the first time you'd flip the digit that stands for 3^1 would be when actually reaching 3. In this situation however you already flip it when reaching 2, because you actually say "1*3 +(-1)*1".
It would probably be more obvious with a bigger base (as well as more interesting - do you allow any digit do become negative? Only certain ones? Do you keep it bijective or can a number be represented differently? Etc.)
@@entropyzero5588 Is that similar as how roman numerals do subtractive notation? So 9 is "1_10" or 90 is "10_100" ?
5:38 "Look how 4 and 9 are alike"
Me: what about 6 and 9?
And 2 and 5, seems like there are 2 3-gap pairs along with the 5-gap ones
I'm still waiting on the 12tone collab.
Nativlang and Artifexian on the same day, plus conlang critic? Nice!
you should start adding the corresponding Oa glyphs along side the translations of phrases, I would really be interested to see what these phrases look like written in Oa glyphs
Other language:
We need to pronoun number differently under different circumstances and counting method.
Chinese:
NUMBER IS NUMBER
Then again, Chinese has "classifiers", which are a different sort of complicated. Also, 二／两
@@moshi9800 yea I saw it in the video "Dog is a gender"
At 8:09 you say that "si lama" means six books, but it means four books.
Yeah, I had to rewind and check that, because I thought maybe he'd said it in Irish and just pronounced it wrong - "sia leabhair" is "six books" in Irish.
Raghnaid Anna NicGaraidh
That’s probably what caused the error.
I would be interested in a series on constructing mathematical notation.
The New Numeral System -- a new way to calculate and express numbers.
th-cam.com/video/GWX-TBijClc/w-d-xo.html
Yessss base 12! That's what I'm doing, so this should he useful....
Huhhh.... Why...!!?
12 likes, perfectly balanced like all things should be!
Ok, who's the heretic who put the 13th like?
@@Motofanable 18(b12) likes now
Because he let that silly excuse for a conlanger and declared 12-hater interfere. Should have kept it at 12.
@@msolec2000 I'm pretty sure that's not the reason, or at least, not the only reason. Also, he's not a 12-hater, he just prefers base 6. And, what's with this insult?
> Mentions vötgil
> Just *assumes* that the numbers of a positional numbering system always go from largest to smallest power
oren
Anything where the smallest is at one end, the largest is at the other end, and everything in between is in increasing/decreasing order is sensible.
Wrong end card. Should be Conlang Critic, not Biblaridion, right? c:
Edit: He fixed it, but I swear it was wrong at first.
right
Right
➡️
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter
->
voiced alveolar approximate, unrounded mid near-open to unrounded vowel & front-mid near-close vowel, asperated unvoiced alveolar plosive
Artifexian just cannot stop collaborating with my favorite creators. Worldbuilding Notes, Biblaridion, and now jan Misali? I am so here for this.
i didnt read the title properly, and only realised that yan Misali when he suddenly popped in, even though i kinda expected him to come up as soon as i heard 12
Coincidence, I was learning about number systems in computer class, and I was learning a number system in German class, then this comes out!
"Senery or whatever? Give me a break"
*flashback to new radio shows*
Show me the bibliography
6:24 "The 7 distinct sets of number words used in Japanese".
There is also the simple 'zero, ichi, ni, san, yon/shi, go, roku, nana/shichi, hachi, ku/kyuu, juu' in Japanese, as well as the near-infiite amount of counter words. 2 birds = niwa. 2 boxs = futahako. And there are plenty more.
Japanese is so lovely :D
First time I've seen nibbles written with a y.
(Interesting stuff. I would have made it more regular, easier to remember but less organic.)
That's because the common term for a small _bite_ is "nibble", but in the context of computing and hexadecimal, half of a _byte_ is a "nybble".
@@angeldude101 I've always seen it written as nibble in the context of computers and binary numbers as well. Never seen it when referring to a hexadecimal digit (apart from when discussing that 4 bits can be translated to 1 hexadecimal digit).
Japanese is bit tricky considering "number words", as they have more like "suffixes", and while there's under a dozen of those that are used most commonly, if you don't want to have any problems, there's dozens of them, and in principle you can learn hundreds, even though that's highly impractical use of your time.
I've used base 5 for my main culture for years, it just comes from the number of fingers in one hand. Since it's very important number for them, they also divide the human life into 5 year periods which comes into play in their laws about coming of age and such things.
I'm planning base 12 for my other culture who are traders, so they would benefit from a more mathematically useful system.
Also a neat trick about naming numbers: in Finnish 8 (kahdeksan) literally means 10-2 and nine (yhdeksän) 10-1.
Yes, there are many languages around the planet which still do, or have in the past, used phrases like "one from ten" for nine, or "two from ten" for eight. It's perfectly fine. A few languages might even use "three from ten" for seven. Ainu seems to do this. It's also a vigesimal system.
I find it funny how Mitch compared your number system with French numbers right before he called it "neat."
Could've labeled it "nerd compromise"
People are SLEEPING on Hex, base-12 may have more factors and be more commonplace but 16 deserves some love too.
SEXIMAL FOR THE WIN
16 for lose. Its prime divisor is just 2
It looks awful numbers mixed with letters.
Am I the only one that watches videos like these for fun without actually knowing what's going on?
I've been going with base 8 for my 4-fingered elves, but after watching this I'm more open to 16. I've never seen such a thorough, easy explanation of different bases before. Thanks for dumbing it down :)
We should devise a language the minimizes spitting during speech...
I was waiting for this collab, Conlang Critic wanted it for quite a while!
3:06 Oh i get it! How have i never realized before now that this is because if you don't really eat food properly you just take a "nibble" out of it, which is smaller than a "bite" of food, and that's why half a byte is a nybble! This is something i only realized like the third time around watching this video, and having heard a nybble MANY times before!!
Truly disgusting that some people would do this horrible thing
@@Dalekscientist wut
@@L1M.L4M search up nibble on TH-cam click the first result, look at the description and look at the comments
OMG YES!
THIS IS IT BOYS!
loving these conlang channel crossovers
Prepare for an angry comment from me about how you didn't even mention signed-digit bases, once I've finished watching the video.
This is what I've become: a guy who watches videos expecting and planning on getting angry that his very specific favorite thing about a subject wasn't mentioned.
Oh dear.
Hate9. Nerd :p
I prefer balanced bases over negative ones, but my absolute favorites are positional non-additives. Yes, every real number can be approximated as a sum of powers of any non-zero, non-one real number, and there’s a finite representation for every integer, but the same is true for the product of primes.
I created a system where every natural number is represented by its prime factorization, and it turns out it works quite well (except for zero, it’s not on my records and therefore doesn’t exist). Rational numbers are represented with negative indexes, and you can use a continued fraction to generate approximations for irrationals.
I just imagine you being like "Oh, here's a new video on this topic... well, I need to prepare my fist for some shaking"
My first finnished number system is kinda weird. It uses base 12 AND 5, which is to say you count units untill you have a dozen, then dozens untill you have 5 dozen, known as a flock, then count untill you have 5 flock, known as a horde, and then count untill 12 hordes.
“Let’s keep it simple”
I’m still waiting for them to dumb it down to someone who didn’t sell their soul to calculus
As has been noted in other comments, there are WAY more counters in Japanese.
In addition to the ones you listed, there are e.g. 匹 hiki (small-ish pets/animals). 本 hon (cylindrical objects), 枚 mai (flat objects, like paper, which also happens to be one of the few words using a couter in English: 5 sheets of paper), 頁 pe-ji (pages of a book. Uses a reading derived from English these days, for whatever reason), 冊 satsu (for bound objects, like books themselves), 首 shu (songs or poems), 台 tai (machines), 回 kai and 度 do (times as in occurrences), 倍 bai (times as in multiplication/amounts), 代 dai (ages or generations) and many more.
Of course there's also the obvious ones that map pretty cleanly to units as most languages use them, e.g 年 nen (year), 週 shuu (week), 円 en (yen as in currency) and others, though a lot of SI units just use borrowed words. Finally there's an odd one: 第 dai which is used to create ordinals (mostly written or formal contexts) and it is odd in that it's a prefix instead of a suffix.
Japanese numbers are actually a ton of fun (also because of how the writing works, as traditionally the radices are explicitly specified as in 五万七 "5 ten-thousand 7", kind of like how it is actually spoken in most languages), though all the different counters sure are something to wrap one's head around. It's actually even a problem for some Japanese, so in recent years usage of つ tsu, which is technically the counter for small objects, as a kind of catch-all counter has increased, especially among young speakers.
Oh hey, it's that rhythm heaven guy!
There was actually an article out there that mathematically determined the best base to use, by giving weighted scores, for example, more digits to memorize reduces score, more digits for a given number also reduces score, a higher number of divisors raises score, etc. Guess what, 12 wins, with 60, 30, and 6 as good options.
I mean depending on the society wouldn't having a neat structure make sense? I'm far from an expert but Korean's writing system was specifically designed to ensure it made sense and promote literacy, although I guess there aren't many cultures that set out to do that.
"All bases are created equal, but some bases are more equal than others"
me: skips to 4:00 without any context
me: *what*
They care about each other
I am so f*c*ing happy because I spammed your youtube to make this possibole!!
I started clapping when you said base 12.
Base 30 (2*3*5) is better
Base 27 is the donk step boys that have an electrical car
i clapped when i saw darth vaderrr
I booed, base 6 is better. The redundant two makes it worse, not better.
Pfft. Haters the lot of you. But I do like Base 30.
Wow. This is right up my alley. I had no idea other people were interested in this. So well done. Subscribed.
IT would be amazing if you wrote a novel that incorporated everything you've developed in all of your videos
the fact that the first number sound he made was i-kia is amazing
6:30
go raibh maith agat, Artifexian
Irish needs more international love as school butchers any enjoyment with this language
I could see the "pn" suffix becoming "m" because it blends the bilabial and nasal aspects of those sounds.
For a number of reasons.
I got the joke.
Marvelous.
I'm working on a conlang for goblins, and I like the idea of base 16 where it represents counting on fingers and toes.
6:25 "seven sets used in japanese"
... if only it was merely these seven... *cries in weeabo*
I love how you did your numbers. This is exactly how the D'ni numbers in the Myst books and games are written, but 1-4, up to 24. Also note how the numbers resemble the D'ni alphabet.
kalez238
Actually, D’ni numbers are base 25 subdivided into fives, and 5, 10, 15 and 20 look like 1, 2, 3 and 4 rotated 90°. 6 is formed by layering 1 and 5, 8 by layering 3 and 5, 19 by layering 4 and 15 and so on.
@@ragnkja Yes, that is what I said, like he did it, but they are combinations of 1-4, and only up to 24. 25 is an X in a box.
can I point out that 0.9 in base 32 looks like a Username for someone called José born in 1973
My constructed numerical system is based on a base5 mainly due to the symbols i use for numbers, a stripe with one spike is 1 etc till 5 when it gets a circle and repeat that till ten when it becomes a wing. It's supposed to be similar to plumage of birds. This gave me a lot of ideas to improve on it, thanks a lot
love your videos man
hello jay
Charming, informative video thanks! Love the melodic/rhyming subsets of numbers, too!
But ... 58 isn't a confusing number in this system.
TRiG (Ireland)
Danish counting is just weird. The other Germanic languages may have (or have previously had, in the case of Norwegian) the units between the hundreds and the tens, but Danish is the only language that calls 50 “halfway to three score”.
You keep working with such amazing people!
Darn, I was really freaking excited for base 12, but my hopes were dashed almost immediately. :/ Would you be willing to adapt it to 12? I personally feel like 12 is a neglected base for new number systems, and I've heard tons of great things about it.
I couldn’t tell when the conlang ended and the technical jargon started...
0:53 base TREE
I always thought that if I created a new number system I would do base 8 for the simplification of it being a power of 2 and also less characters makes it easier to have numbers that don't look or sound the same, but I guess if someone were to grow up learning it that wouldn't be much of a problem.
how do you get the 7 kinds of numerals in Japanese?
I can think of two ways to dived them into different kinds. 1st On/Kun reading (ichi/hitotsu) which is 2, or noun classifiers which is much more than 7. (hitotsu/ippai/ ichimai/ tsuitachi/ hitori/ ippon/ ikkagetsu/ ichisai/ ...)
I wondered about that, too, but I think it's the way they morph.
ippon, nihon, sanbon
ippun, nifun, sanbun
would be counted as a single group, even though they use different counters. They would, however, be different from issai, nisai, sansai, despite both using onyomi.
Do you get to 7 with this? Plausible, but I'm not sure.
Soo. Freakin. COMPLICATED! Why did I even click on this video, what was I even thinking about?
(11:20) Wait, people actually like Vötgil?
Gotta love the fusion of Artifexian and Misali's graphic style!
I don't like your numeral system because almost all of them look like a different one upside down. It would make it inconvenient for day-to-day use, or on objects that don't have a clear up-and-down, like the numbers on dice, or the sizing of wrench sockets, or for reading papers at a glance. I think they should all be more distinct from each other.
I was recommended this video out of context, with no background. I assumed he was talking about creating a number system for a computer language for the longest time until he started discussing how to write the numerals. I was so increasingly dismayed by the intentional messiness up until that point, until it clicked what was going on.
Cool video, I'd never thought much about this topic before.
>seven distinct sets of number words in Japanese
REEEEEE MISINFORMATION
Yesssss I love all your videos, but I am especially excited to see the return of Oa, it feels like it's been a while.
You just materialize when someone mentions base 12?! Makes sense.
bases 8,10,12 make perfect sense if you are human of course
@@Motofanable biologically how does base 12 map to us? Is it because it is a multiple of 4, given we have 4 fingers? Or is there something else I'm missing
@@Dragrath1 watch this th-cam.com/video/UixU1oRW64Q/w-d-xo.html
@@Dragrath1 (not including the thumb) you have 4 fingers each with 3 segments, thus you are able to count to 12 on a single hand.
@@cameoshadowness7757 That seems so counter intuitive to me never thought about my hands as segments
This is getting way too complicated for my brain to comprehend but that’s pretty cool that you made your own numbers
9:46 amogus
8:01 I recently heard about a study on the frequency of verb regularization, and it actually turns out that the more commonly a word is used, the fewer changes it goes through, so I think it would be the other way around. But then again, "one" has no similarity with "first," "two" has no similarity with "second," then "three" is pretty similar to "third," and from fourth to ninth they're all just basically the adding of "-th" to the number.
I'm sure it's already been said, but won't you need to update your flag, or at least redefine the 12 pointed star thing.
Also, 9:56 took me out of the moment for a bit. Not often I hear my name - let alone to mean 256.
The Mesopotamian base 60 is the best. Fractions become trivial. Also gives a more accurate estimation for PI and other ratios.
I have watched your video, and I shall now complain that you didn't so much as mention signed-digit bases.
My dudes, signed digits are literally the coolest thing, and you didn't even /mention/ them! Come on, guys, you argued for ages about seximal vs dosenal, but you can't even /bring up/ signed digits? I am disappointed.
One of the presenters sounds almost exactly like one of my friends and now I can’t unhear it lol. Super interesting video!