Bob has been banging this drum for over _ten years_ now: just because you're aiming for silly, dumb spectacle, that doesn't give you a license to be lazy, stupid and boring. He said as much in his infamous review of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, where he lambasted defenders of the film for having low expectations because "it's just a toy commercial" by pointing out that even the original G1 cartoon, which was even _more_ blatantly a toy commecial, managed to create a decent and engaging story.
Isn't it a little weird how the MCU and DCEU mirror the way their respective comic-book companies used to approach continuity, especially in the pre-Crisis "bronze age"? Like, I remember as a kid, back in the seventies, struggling to understand DC's pre-Crisis continuity, because their books where all-over-the-place, whereas Marvel's always felt a lot more straight-forward and connected. Now, their respective movie-universes feel the same way... and it looks like DC (aka Warner Bros.) has decided to just give in, and lean into it. It's almost like they've finally realized that impenetrably confounding continuity is their *brand*.
Plus DC's heroes are not just larger than life, they're (except Batman) either gods or have god-like powers. Whereas Marvel heroes are relatable people who happen to have powers
All this reminds us just how damn lucky Marvel is to have Kevin Feige...while Marvel is not at all consistent, They SEEM TO CARE ABOUT PUTTING OUT COHERENT FILMS!
It's all a mentality thing. DC wants to be super hardcore and serious all the time, Marvel knows that super heroes are inherently a bit ridiculous and leans into it.
@@nangke I've always wondered the same. How did a man who openly admitted to not really liking or understanding the appeal of super heroes become the poster boy for the entire DC movie franchise?
@@JDKT002 someone at Warner Bros thought the appeal of Super Heroes was Spectacle and Cool factor. I'm betting that someone also didn't know that Snyder didn't actually write Watchmen.
@@tarecalibrav1642 no, marvel just knows how to pick talent and create good stories. the whole marvel knowing superheroes are ridiculous is total bullshit and a complete misunderstanding of why marvel is more successful. lets just say, Marvel knows how to stick a landing. people doubted that infinity war would live up to the hype and it blew it out the park.
6:35 Yeah, not to distract from the wonderwoman stuff when it's still at peak relevancy, but two ongoing, live action batmans at once? Somebody needs to have a sit down with these people.
Why Disney seems to knock it out of the park ALMOST everytime with Marvel Studios and why Warner Bros and DC can't seem to find their footing, I see it as that DC didn't set up proper leadership with their DC projects and go with it, where Disney and Marvel did. That's right I'm chalking it up to Marvel Studios has A Kevin Feige and DC does not. That's my view anyway. Edit: look further down in the comments, I believe my guy Jim Ballard has an excellent point. It appears Disney/Marvel has a bit more faith in their characters and stories where WB/DC seems a bit embarrassed by it.
More broadly, I think the problem is faith. Marvel has faith that the books they've been selling for decades have a following that means the characters and stories have value; DC is ashamed of the books it's been selling for decades and thinks the movies need to apologize for the source material being uncool. Like, dude, if I'm buying a ticket to Wonder Woman, then I want Wonder Woman! The first movie gave me Wonder Woman and I love it! You don't have to try to fix Wonder Woman!
@@jimballard1186 - I agree, it's just an update of the embarrassed tone of comic book movies pre-X-Men. Because their idea of leadership is callous IP management/finance/marketing while being out-of-touch with their actual content, and by extension their viewers. Marvel feels like a boardroom-backed creative team, whereas with DC the corporate boardroom is trying to essentially be the creative team.
You are 100% right, the executives almost destroyed the Avengers, on phase 2 they where given more free reign which culminated in Age of Ultron which is not as good. After that Feige was given full controll.
WB is making the same stupid mistakes that DC Comics have been making for the past three decades with never ending reboots and obsessive continuity wank.
It is Warner fault on the first place. In opposition to Disney, Werner tend to meddling and be ignorant about own property, considering DC people as weirdos in they basement.
@@TheKevphil This argument is literally called "New Godwin Law", as only especially dub people use grammar as argument, on platform where majority of people are foreigners 0_0
Meanwhile the Arrowverse just did an epic, literal multiverse-shattering crossover to solid reviews and it still feels like that's the franchise people on the internet prefer to hate on. Weird how these priorities work when the CW actually has a plan for their shows compared to movie world.
As I often say, success has enemies. And Arrowverse has been the only consistent success of DC comics properties for the entire 2010s. It may also sting some of the haters that a) Arrowverse has the kind of tone mixture that MCU does and b) they pulled this off on TV series budgets while DCEU films remain a most unprofitable crap shoot.
I think people are being a little harsher on this than it deserves. It's not great, but at the same time, it's not nearly as bad as some of the DC films (looking at you Batman vs Superman). I have a suspicion that what keeps dragging these films down is that DC is trying to build up to the level of the first Avengers movie in something like ten minutes - and they also decided that everyone should hate superman, both in the universe and amongst the fandom.
I look at people's disappointment of this movie and all I can see is Obiwan standing over Anakin shouting "You were the Chosen One! I loved you!" People might just be extra mad because the first movie didnt completely suck and we all just want DC to start making good movies. Not just decent or passable movies but actual good movies.
@@Shirospyre Ah, to be the person that never learns. I mean, DC movies generally aren't great. In fact, historically, they're more often straight up bad than even just good enough.Anyhow, I see what you're saying, but the expectation seems to be more wishful thinking than based on any reality.
The way people were talking about it, I thought this movie was gonna be pure unadulterated garbage that's going to drive society 50 years backwards. Then I actually saw it. Remember, the internet RUNS on hyperbole.
Seriously. It was ok. Good bits here and there but also messy and discombobulated as hell. The internet is just being sensationalist, hyperbolic and polarizing as always.
I really wish the Star Wars Sequels and Snyder Fans had this sort of, "Yeah, okay, look we know there are massive problems with it but we like it anyway" awareness. I feel this sort of attitude is going to make interactions between the "It was good vs it was bad" groups much nicer.
@@alonsoarana5307 I haven't seen the Mandalorian, but I've only seen positive things about it from people at least in my social media circles. My point wasn't that "bad people exist in fandom" because that's clearly true of most fandoms, but more that there are apologists (or just people who like the movies referenced) that think they are flawless despite so many obvious things being wrong with them.
So no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room? .... Wonder Woman sleeping with an unconscious man? Even in the movie "Ghost", Whoopi Goldberg gave consent to do the intimacy thing.
He wasn't unconscious. He was Freaky Friday'd with a dead man. There is no evidence in the narrative that Random Other Guy was in any way present for any of it. This was a comic book movie, not Get Out.
@@twincitiestara No, that guy isn't dead. He was unconscious with no memory of meeting her. The way he looked in our screen is the same look Diana is seeing as well. In fact, he was in the end of the movie meeting Diana near the Merry Go Round with the same tacky fashion Steve wore. That's the guy if you didn't realized.
@@ultrustic He was brought back to life when Diana "revoked her wish." At no point is it even implied that he was alive and present in his body when Steve was living in it.
@@wwaxwork Well, Marvel can stumble. And Marvel did stumble a bunch early on. They made all the mistakes other studios made when they tried to start their own universe. But Marvel was the pioneer here. What they were doing was brand new, so nobody had any idea what to do. But DC and Universal and Sony were following Marvel, so they should have been able to sidestep Marvel's mistakes. Instead, they all made their own Iron Man 2...AFTER Iron Man 2 proved to be a misstep.
Bob, I really love how this video feels in the vein of an 'autopsy' video, but doesn't have any of the bad faith connotations to it (other than the inflammatory title meant to catch eyes). A lot of people have moved past the troglodyte rage videos of yesteryear; even a lot of the reviewers who popularized it with humorous intentions (Linkara, Nostalgia Critic, etc.) But nowadays people have traded those in for 'critics' who just act dead-eyed and sardonic. As if being poised or mumbling while delivering personal attacks and degrading implication is enough to NOT sound like an asshat. It's still TH-camrs riling up their audiences by painting creators as villains who make sub-par content with the explicit intent of making viewers feel bad; trying to instill righteous anger through victimhood born out of entitlement. But you didn't seem to go into this like you were angry at anyone who was on set. You approached us, the audience, like you had some simple bad news to break, but that it wasn't anymore dramatic than like when a home team loses a game. You encouraged a response of looking ahead to what could be done better, instead of trying to make ourselves feel better by dancing on ashes.
Something where so much money is spent, culturally “significant,” and people livelihoods depends on is open to this kind of criticism. It’s not shit talking. It’s a critique cause he provides why it’s good...why it’s bad...and possible ways to fix it. It’s needless complaining if it doesn’t provide context and solutions
Well, i stopped watching moviebob as he rated socio-political motivations higher than a coherent story, see his Star Wars reviews. Thus i wanted to give him a new try for month, and am kind of astonished now that he does not even mention the ra-py aspects of WW84. Could it have an impact that the victim was male and the perpetrator female? ....just asking....
I actually liked the lighter, goofier turn this movie tried to present. What I didn't like was the ... implications happening with Diana and Trevor's relationship. Clearly something happened got overlooked in the rewrite.
Continuity is a magic trick: You have to know how it works to make people believe in it, be able to improvise in response to outside distractions, bluff like it was always the plan, and be prepared for any part of the stunt to come crashing down around you.
If I had a time machine or had complete control over DC, I never compete with Marvel for live actions movies. Instead I focus on making animated movies, tv series, and potentially tie in games/comics. I mean Marvel already had their lane established by the first avengers movie so I would focus on a market they left open and needs filling. Also DC has a good track record with animated series and talented tv creators, writers, and artist they could rely on. Also I think its criminal that it took Young Justice so much effort to get a season 3 and the Harley Quinn show would have had major backing if I was in charge of DC. But hey thats just me.
@@matthewlane I'm just saying we have a difference of opinion. If you hate season 3 for whatever reason cool. But my point is DC should invest in animation instead of live action because Marvel has that market on lock.
@@matthewlane oh your one of those people 🙄. Hate to break it to you but these icons are profitable and i hate the new 52 as much as the next guy but there worst animated was better than most of their DCU movies. I say go back to doing what worked. And maybe allow tv shows and animated movies to be there own continuity instead of copying the comics. DC needs to make money and what they have done since copying marvel isn't working so im just throwing out ideas.
The most awkward thing was the Trevor resurrection fiasco. No one was concerned about the poor guy who’s body was stolen. WW looked ready to let Trevor possess some guy’s body for the rest of his life....
IKR and what is so weird is they went out of their way to let us know this guy had a life, an apartment, a career, presumably friends, family, and co-workers that would miss him...and probably come looking for him. It’s like how can a character who represents such good, WW does not live in the grey, be tots fine with that. Doesn’t phase her at all, no moral dilemma.
There was a lot changed in Salvation. Originally John Connor only had a minor role where he'd talk to troops but not be seen. When Christian Bale was cast the role was significantly beefed up.
I'm one of those people who enjoyed the movie, including most of the silly bits... There were only a couple of areas that fell flat for me. One of them was around Cheetahs story... I felt like we were sold a different version than what we got and can't help but think that is because of studio meddling
Dear God I hope they don't make a live action Batman Beyond. That would require great care and Valerian/Jupiter Ascending levels of production. AT&T is not going to put up that kind of money for a niche Batman title that Joe Schmoe moviegoer doesn't recognize.
In addition to all these foolish and short-sighted corporate decisions being made by AT&T, the company has also decided to *_GUT_* DC Comics, eliminating most of the titles and laying off hundreds of people, many of them the cheaply available creatives behind the occasionally *_good_* concepts available.
Yeah, that one still alarms me. Leaving aside the human toll that this mass layoff causes, it kills the idea factory that keeps them competitive with Marvel, as you say. I'm still waiting for them to announce a firesale of every DC Comics property that isn't giving them any immediate or meaningful cash flow.
DC: "Hey, you know how trying to replicate the success of the MCU was too complex for us to do all in a rush? Let's try to set up something even *more* complex - what could possibly go wrong?"
Like seriously. Almost all scenes from this fight were in trailer as for most movie Barbara was completely different type of villain, until they randomly switch to Cheetah. Like WTF?
THANK YOU!!! I also generally liked the movie but HATED how that fight looked. Like, I don't even care if her "golden armor" would have looked power-rangers cheap in broad daylight, and I don't care if a good look at Cheetah's final form would have resembled the CGI characters from Tom Hooper's "Cats" movie. I was cool with Wonder Woman catching a cloud with her lasso and pulling herself across the sky, so I was obviously ready for a big technicolor supervillain battle right out of the pages of a Silver Age DC book. Instead we got a dark & blurry mess that looked WAY too much like the end of the first movie... and the end of Batman v. Superman... and come to think of it, the ending battles of Justice League, Suicide Squad, and even (to a lesser extant) Birds of Prey. It's like somebody at DC just decided that a dark filter is the easiest way to make these CGI-heavy scenes look convincing, and now it's the special sauce that they just add every single time. Who would have guessed, walking out of Man of Steel way back when it was first screened, that what we saw would be the best-looking final battle of the entire DCEU?
This movie is a big dumb mess of a thing, and it kinda did it for me. Idunno. Maybe in this case I’m one of those people into the thing everyone agrees is not good; I gave people who liked Rise of Skywalker plenty of side-eye, maybe it’s my turn.
I didn't dislike the movie. I didn't think it was great, didn't think it was bad. It was a mildly entertaining Christmas morning romp. I mean, it doesn't hold up if you stop to think about it, but neither does Aquaman. I remember almost walking out of that movie about ten minutes in, then telling myself, "It's okay, just turn off your brain, look at the pretty colors, and try not to think about anything too hard." Once you do that, it's kinda fun. Same thing.
@@CasepbX Fun is subjective. Some people find golf fun, others do not; some people find slasher films fun, others do not. One person's fun is another person's boredom. You did not have fun, but that does not preclude others from finding enjoyment.
I'm firmly in the "I know it's bad and I liked it anyway" camp, because I classify WW84 in the same category as, like, the Fantastic Four movies or the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. Dumb, but colorful and earnest, and I sometimes I need that.
I think it makes a big difference that we all watched this for free in the comfort of our homes, which doesn't make it feel like a 200+ mil production. But if mass post endgame audiences went to a theater to watch this ...we'd probably be asking for Patty Jenkins to resign.
@@shindean People ARE asking her to step down. They don't want her near WW3 or Rogue Squadron. It's kind of amazing that once a female director gets into a position of power that fans suddenly turn on them because they don't provide them with exactly what they want.
@@getreal2592 I don't believe that statement you said is completely true, Bryce Dallas Howard has done multiple Mando episodes and she's gained more followers and love for it. But women will face harsher and immediate criticism for doing a poor job on a famed property, and that is not fair but it doesn't help her cause when she let down the DCEU fans who thought the company hit a turning point.
I lost hope in the opening scene where she magically worked out that 2 of the people blending in the crowd in the mall, were part of the robbery. I was severly disappointed by the fact she'd basically been moping around for 50 years sad about her one and only love interest of a week, in her 900 year life.....what is that.....
@@aceflibble if that's the case, then that week that she spent with Trevor should have been equivalent to an hour for her, not enough time to fall completely in love with Trevor.
Most of the complaints I see about the movie are things like "It's a terrible movie because they never explained why Lord was able to get things from other people's wishes," and they did explain that. So far, out of all the complaints I've heard, I don't get why people have a problem with it. The only real issue I have is that Wonder Woman spends much of the movie pining over a man. A female empowerment icon really shouldn't spend that much time fussing over a love interest. Other than that, I just don't get what all the whining is about. Sorry.
Imagine this, you fall in love with someone after living on an island for the your whole life without any men and knowing him for such a short time and he dies and you have to live the rest of your life without him and then you get the option to get him back? Wouldn't you feel the same, I rather they do that instead of making her a total feminist who "doesn't need a man" she's a loving but powerful and smart woman, that's true femininity right there
You enjoyed it. That's cool. The fact that MOST people didn't means that there's probably more than just 2 minor things that others find fault with it. If it really was just those 2 things then don't you think the majority of people would agree with you?
I'd say you should check out Movie Bob's actual review if you haven't already, he goes into way way more depth about the details of the film (both the stuff it did really well, and the areas that fell short), and the critique you mentioned about her kind of revolving around Chris Pine's character is featured prominently in his discussion (again both the ways it could've worked but also the ways it struggled)
That was my big issue with the movie. The living embodiment of the phrase "strong independent woman who don't need no man" spends most of the movie not wanting to lose the ghost of her long dead boyfriend. Then basically has to be told by the same guy she needs to move on. I'm not against the idea of a love that transcends time, but she knew this guy for at best a few months and shes still mot over him 60 years later? I mean I could see 10 years, 20 years maybe, and 30 years would be pushing it,but after 60 years? Move on woman! Imho the movie almost works, but that was a big glaring issue. Wonder woman shouldn't have to be told she needs to move on. She should either learn it or have already moved on or have just gotten over him at the very least. I enjoyed the movie otherwise, but that feels like they didn't really understand the character of wonder woman and the first movie was a fluke.
I have to say that "Odin's Treasures FAKE" clip is the perfect clip for talking about how continuity isn't that big an issue with MCU, and I thank Marvel, Kevin Feige, and Taika Waititi for including it in Thor Ragnarok!
The wishing rock being tied into Desire from Sandman would actually have been kind of cool. Maybe that's an origin they'll try to retroactively put in.
@@jiado6893 That's not the kind of game the Endless bother with. It's incredibly small scale by their reckonining and it doesn't mess with the relatives. And making it the Duke Of Desception actually ties it into Wonder Woman lore.
@@jonathonbisiach749 Except that people didn't like Jar Jar so George had to rewrite the whole thing to erase Darth Jar Jar, and he was turning in scripts literally DAYS before filming started. See also: th-cam.com/video/VgICnbC2-_Y/w-d-xo.html
I fall into the "All the criticisms are true but I liked it anyway" camp. The only things that actually bugged me during the watching of the thing was the editing and the stunted setup/payoff beats. I wonder if a #JenkinsCut would have done better with that.
Yeah, this reminds of what the Fandom Menace response to those who like the The Last Jedi (ie, they know it sucked but they liked it anyway). As if there is no valid reason to like WW84 and just like it anyway for reasons. I really hate that kind of thinking, it's completely lazy and disingenuous to think anyone who likes a movie that you do not must be either dumb or willfully blind.
Agreed. I think WW84 is like some cult classics where it's not particularly good, but there's something about it that just clicks with you because there are few other pieces of media like it. It's not for everyone, but for the people it IS for, it just really resonates with them. I think in a decade fans are going to look back and reevaluate this movie as something unique and worth more than it seems.
@@moonlitebrite9317 There are legit reasons why I dislike this movie, like it is boring, has weak villains and based purely on gimmicks. But I can't say that people who like it are dumb or something. This movie is just wasted opportunity, not true garbage.
I think unless the movie is boring or not interesting, every kind of movie can be enjoyable, I haven't watched the movie yet but I heard it was really boring at times, so it was the factor for me to not watch it.
The impression I got was more that they were hands off on this film. Patty Jenkins made "the only good" DCEU film and they're still sorting through backlash about the Justice league reshoot. I think they just gave her free license to make her auteur vision. To me the movie felt like it needed some studio interference and editing out some self indulgent moments.
The problem with DC's plans with the movies seems to be lacking a crucial step - namely, stop making bad movies. Flashpoint is probably gonna end with them saying, "Now all the bad movies are non-canon," but that won't mean a thing if they don't stop making bad movies!
I find it funny how even after moving to the big screen, DC Comics are still kind of not entirely there. Not that they’re bad or anything like that. But for decades Marvel has always had at least some semblance of knowing what it was they wanted to do with its IP (we don’t talk about the Clone Saga). DC has always been a confusing amalgamation of properties dating back from the early 20th century that got updated, retconned, and pulled forward. And it appears they’re taking that same scattershot attitude going forward.
If you haven't already, read the excellent book Slugfest, which chronicles the roots of this dysfunction from the rise of Marvel Comics in the Silver Age on. It's a fascinating story.
My brother and I were both kinda confused over Steve Trevor's amazement with subways and escalators, after all, they had all those things in 194-- OH WAIT HE'S FROM WORLD WAR I NOT II.
Surprise, surprise, the company that allowed "Granny's Peach Tea" to make it to the final cut of BvS seems to be having some management and production issues. Honestly, it's more surprising that the original WW film came out as good as it did, since a relative lack of quality now seems to be the standard.
Jenkins is a good director, but she did not write the first WW movie. Then she got a lot of credit for WW1 and got to write the second one in addition to directing duty. Turned out bad. Giving-people-too-much-power-based-on-the-success-of-a-collaborative-effort shall henceforth be known as the George Lucas Problem. Give her a good writer for WW3 and it will probably be fine
@@archer1949 just because she did 'Monster' doesn't mean she was qualified to write and direct a superhero film. She clearly missed the mark by a wide shot with WW1984. And Patti Jenkins was give 100% creative control over WW1984. It wasn't any Exec interference this time around. This was all Patti.
Well from wat I remember, in the comics she didn't usually fly. Except for in her invisible jet. 🤷🏾♂️ but I'm old and probably wrong... then again, I don't recall her flying in the first movie at all either (I haven't watched 1984 yet)
WW began "gliding on air currents" in the Silver Age, either 1950's or early 60's. She gained the full power of flight in the George Perez reboot in 1987.
@@RawbeardX And Superman started out with the strength of ten men and the ability to jump over tall buildings. Power creep happens when characters stick around for almost a century.
@3:51 I have to laugh at that point just because I am totally in the camp of "I am stuck at home and WTF else am I gonna do with time!!" and "It's dumb but why not just enjoy it because it exists ^_^, the part way through the movie I am like "Wait, did she just lasso a bolt of lightning?? And then following that with.. Wait, did she just lasso a flipping plane??"
I think the fact that Patty Jenkins jumped right on board to making Rogue Squadron, is also probably a bit of evidence that she needed a break from working with WB/AT&T and things didn't quite go how she wanted with WW1984.
@@NickPiers not really. Dr Fate doesn't have to actively save the day, he can just observe how Fate favours and advise the heroes then repair the damage once the dust is settled.
What this movie honestly reminded me of was some of the bigger David Tennant Doctor Who episodes. When there's 4 or 5 different things happening at the same time at different places around the world and sometimes in space, and the camera is constantly cutting between the different locations in the final minutes before the world ends. So the wildness of the movie wasn't something I wasn't unaccustomed to.
Yeah, it felt a lot like Series 4 era Doctor Who. Which I love a lot, but tends to only hang together by the strength of the characters you’ve been following for x many episodes.
Nail on the head right there. It had the messy plotting of Doctor Who (which I can and do forgive a lot). The lasso now does what it needs to do and is effectively 'sonic'. There was a companion who could ask questions There were problems solved just because the lead is a goddess/alien and can 'do that thing now' The whole thing centres on a magic/alien macguffin that has a specific 'hook' and seems benign but its actually disastrous And, as you point out, a global montage catastrophe that cannot be solved just by punching and shooting things I enjoyed it because I wanted to enjoy it. (NB: I imagine that The Doctor would have had a different reaction to the 'Steve Trevor Problem' - even if it had been Rose or River)
Is it just me or does it seem WB is trying to play speed catch up to Marvel. Making last minute changes, plans, plots, multiverse all the while Marvel as started this years ago and is already about to explain their own multiverse much better.
Agreed, I largely don't see the massive narrative issues being mentionned. It's a bit convoluted but it works and everyone does a fantastic job in it (I heart Pedro Pascal so much; his ending made me bawl). The action scenes are less crunchy than I wanted them and there's perhaps too much focus on the female lead's heartbreak; but otherwise, it's really good stuff. Critics giving it between a 65 and a 75 are on point as far as I'm concerned.
I steered totally clear of WW84 chatter until I saw it last week and was a bit taken aback by people's responses. I really liked it. It felt very like a Reeves Superman movie to me, so it was pushing at an open door here. I don't care about the external continuity. Also, Wondy swung off a lightening bolt at one point. I was grinning ear to ear at that one.
Short summary: bad script - good idea of using envy and greed as motivation but c'mon you need a good script. bad CGI - supposedly the veteran team that did the first film and other DC films (e.g. JL and BvS) was dumped - while they were not necessarily great - the current results were shockingly bad. bad timing - the second film in a series needs to really solidify the fandom. Empire Strikes Back wasn't just a good film for the SW series, it helped make SW fandom soar - it showed what the series could be. This film did not help the WW franchise. misreading nostalgia - yes, people liked the original Lynda Carter TV show but it was an OK TV show - people's expectations have moved on - they expect more - you can't do a Batman movie like the campy Batman 1966 movie no matter how much people may smile at Adam West's portrayal. This is true of all genre. War movies are hard to do now since Saving Private Ryan - and the Omaha Beach scene .
The first movie already sh... all over the original Lynda Carter TV show. They can't expect that they can first discard all the good aspects which made the show so successful and then please the audience by referencing all the worst aspects of it.
I'm continually baffled at how bad the effects are in most of the DCEU productions. Like, I know that Disney has all the money, but they don't have a monopoly on good VFX studios. And yeah, the MCU occasionally drops the ball too (Black Panther's third act) but on the whole, they keep the quality up. Whereas most of the big-budget DCEU movies look absolutely amateurish. Ironically, I feel like their mid-budget movies like Birds of Prey end up looking best because they aren't trying so hard.
@@jasonblalock4429 Maybe not a monopoly, but they have easy access to the best in the business since Disney bought Lucas film with everything connected to it. Plus, CGI and Animation are closely connected.
@@swanpride Yeah, but there are still loads of good VFX houses out there which aren't affiliated with Disney. There's just no excuse for a movie like Justice League to look as bad as it did.
They should’ve connected the envy and concept to the seven deadly sins from Shazam. The magic fits with Themyscira, and Hercules and Zeus are Roman god’s. You can’t connect the two like that and help build up the universe.
This was an *unnecessary sequel* starring a beautiful woman (whose acting skills are debatable), two comic book villains who were completely watered down and essentially useless supervillains, and ALOT of bad CGI, corny acting, lackluster fight scenes, random storylines, and just an movie that the original screenwriter(s) who wrote it should feel embarrassed 😬😆
There are a lot of things to criticize about this movie, but the "wishing stone" central plot point hardly seems like one of them given the unquestioned success of the Infinity Stones in the MCU. Those are essentially wishing stones, too. So is it a question of how the material is presented that allows one to be accepted and the other not?
I think it's the fact that the Infinity Stones were established over a span of several movies before Marvel unleashed their full "magic wishing stone potential". In the beginning, they were just curiosities, appearing sporadically but still fitting into the world of the MCU. If I understand it correctly, the stone in WW84 kinda comes out of nowhere, especially considering how "gritty and serious" the DCEU tried to be for a long time.
Looking forward to part 2. Still can’t see Wonder Woman 1984 in the Philippines since most theaters have been closed since March and will probably remain closed in the foreseeable future. Your video essays on Batman v. Superman and Superman the Movie were really insightful and enjoyable to watch.
I have a theory for at least one of the changes in this movie. She Ra. When Dianna and Barbara met, it all felt like a romance setup. I'm not the only person who has noticed this. I've seen at least a couple threads in various communities in part of calling the film out for queerbaiting. I think originally Dianna and Barbara have that same meeting and "date" they do at the start of the film; but then Steve comes back and Barbara has accidentally wished some of her humanity away. A lot of their character arcs hinged on this I think. Dianna realizing she was living in the past and needing to let go to move on, and feeling horrible about jilting Barbara like that, and Barbara realizing she is really jealous and her wishes have just made her really petty about it. It actually even makes Barbara rescinding her wish make actual sense, while in the film as is...it just kinda happens for reasons. There was likely some executive pushback on this; but I think somewhere along the line She Ra happened and suddenly they were going to look like they were copying the Wonder Woman stand-in unrequited love for cat themed rival/villain lesbian thing. And I think all the heart in this movie was in the scenes cut to remove that. If I'm right, I really want to see a director's cut.
I'm just confused by the confusion. Lots of the criticisms I understand: but was this really hard to follow? I didn't have any trouble following the plot, to me it seemed pretty simple and even cliche. Yeah, the expositionary dialog was often clunky, but to me it wasn't confusing.
@@ClericOfPholtus It was before that. But seriously. That was world scale clusterfuck! Did they forget that there were hundreds Superheroes there? Like they could drop some Amethyst Princes, Black Lightning, Jade, Power Girl or some other forgotten 80's hero who would never get opportunity to be on screen otherwise, at least doing something in background. But no! Magic wish stones, fine. Minimal level of continuity bad!
Colin Trevorrow gets announced as a Star Wars Director: The Book of Henry is critically reviled. Patty Jenkins gets announced as a Star Wars Director: Wonder Woman 1984 is critically reviled. It's like a curse... I guess we'll have to see what happens with Taika Waititi and 'Love and Thunder'...
Not the same, Waititi has an impeccable track record; actually he has a track record, Jenkins had only made 1 theatrical film before Wonder Woman, and Trevorrow 2 (and they weren't very good); meanwhile Taika Waititi has 6 and at least 4 of them are good (I don't know anything about _Boy_ or _Eagle vs Shark_ )
It is conceivable that the production company did not make any serious post production changes/corrections is that they were facing huge profit losses from 2020 theater closures, and the uncertainty of profits from HBO max. They might have decided to spend as little as possible and hope they made their money back.
I did find the first one really boring. Birds of prey is the only DC film I liked so far but seem to put my self through them in hope. I love Wig and Pascal so tempted though...
As some on who really likes first WW movie and is over all fan of character I am still looking forward to seeing this one no matter what other people might say about. Am I going to like it when I see it? Possibly yes. Personally I am tired to overly dark Snyder style. What I want from comic book movies is to feel like comic books and if WW84 delivers that I am going to be happy.
Looks like WB is going half in on my suggestion of not caring about continuity between movies. For years I've been saying they shouldn't try to imitate Marvel and have every movie be a stand-alone. That way you don't have to worry about things from previous movies unless you want to and can switch up the actors. But saying that it's a multiverse is like trying to have the advantages of stand-alone movies while saying it's part of a bigger picture. That's just not going to work. You need to jump in with both feet and make it a point of telling the audience that you don't need to remember what happened in 22 movies that span over a decade. Each movie is fresh. Want to try having Superman be from India and Batman from Japan? Great! If it flops, send them back to Smallville and Gotham for the next movie.
Ultimately the problem is that it doesn't work particular well even on its own terms. The proof of that is Shazam which is similar in tone and subject, although it's a picture of restraint in comparison to WW84.
Honestly, I’ve been wondering for the longest time what the « tone », so to speak, of WW in general is supposed to be. It doesn’t help that her rogue gallery is lackluster to an almost legendary level.
I don't think I've ever seen on Rotten Tomatoes a movie that came hot out of the gate red hot and be certified fresh in the first couple of dozen reviews with a low 90s rating plummet so fast once more reviews poured in dropped to barely fresh in the low 60s in so short of a time.
@@aaronhumphrey3514 Just barely though. It's at 61 and under 60 is rotten. But the fact that it plummeted to nearly rotten after being certified fresh is absolutely crazy because when they certify a movie fresh it's with the assumption that based on the number of positive reviews as well as the quality of those positive reviews that it's going to stay in at least the lower to mid 80s once a large number of reviews come out. I'm not a RT historian but I don't think this has ever happened.
Dont know what it is, but the audio in this video is hard to listen to to me. Seems like his mic is overtuning a little. Other than that, of course I love the content.
At this point I kinda just wish they'd partner with the CW and get their actors into the DC films. Why not? Like 'em or not the CW DC Universe is successful and a known quantity in that regard. Getting Grant Gustin to play the Flash in movies for example just seems like a logical choice to me and I really wish it'd happen. Yes I know there are legalities in play here but I can't help but feel like those could be overcome.
Two and a half hours is way too long for a film aimed more directly at kids. It didn't feel like anything was cut, more like they just wouldn't stop adding things.
I really wish WB & DC would just step back, take a good look at itself, what it's done, where it's going, and say "Okay! We are taking a break until we can figure out what we want, and how we want to do it successfully w/ the best intentions; until then, SHUT IT DOWN!" As much as i want to be a DC fan, i can't fathom all the bad decisions they've made, and keep making. Sorry to all :(
They're afraid of missing the money train MCU is riding completely. Nobody in Hollywood wants to be first but everybody wants to be second. The problem is that if they DID wait like you say, they might actually get where they want to be.
Multiverse isn't an explanation, it's merely the backdrop of everyday reality. Entertainment doesn't need to be stuck with common-sense notions of physics from 150 years ago. Assume that every shot in every movie was done in a parallel universe - because it was.
@@voltijuice8576 Established fact: it was such pretentious bullshit that cut the legs out from under DCEU from the start. A concept like that demands the sort of rigor and thought that has yet to be demonstrated by WB on this.
Oddly, the recent DC Superhero Girls cartoon designed strictly for little girls handled the morals and ethos of Wonder Woman with more maturity than the "You Know, For Kids!" approach of WW84...
As trash as the plot is, the biggest offense of it all was that it's such a massive bore. So god damn boring! If it was still a dumb fun flick it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But it wasn't. At least it made me laugh at how bad some parts were.
My biggest problem with this film is the tone is all over the place. It goes from happy, goofy, silliness, to grimdark "oh my God the world is going to end" and back at the drop of a hat. It was schizophrenic.
Can't wait for part 2. And if you're up for it, I'd love to hear your take on how tone-deaf Wonder Woman's line at the end comes across. Is it OK to do spoilers in comments here?
I enjoyed WW84! Escapist popcorn movie with a heart. I liked the Richard Donner-esque quality to it. While utterly eclipsed by Superman the movie, it seemed to draw more from Superman II with a healthy dose of Superman III. It was better than Zack Snyder’s dark, brooding morass DC movies, Suicide Squad, and Birds zig Pray (Huntress isn’t unfunny comic relief and Cassandra Caine should be awesome).Thats all said, Bob, your analysis is the best critical review I’ve heard posted on TH-cam yet. I enjoyed it, as I enjoy most of your reviews.
Jesus, not only was this movie so terrible I fell asleep watching it, 4 times christmas day, the review of it is putting me to sleep! Thank you, I couldn't sleep!
Bob has been banging this drum for over _ten years_ now: just because you're aiming for silly, dumb spectacle, that doesn't give you a license to be lazy, stupid and boring. He said as much in his infamous review of Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, where he lambasted defenders of the film for having low expectations because "it's just a toy commercial" by pointing out that even the original G1 cartoon, which was even _more_ blatantly a toy commecial, managed to create a decent and engaging story.
Isn't it a little weird how the MCU and DCEU mirror the way their respective comic-book companies used to approach continuity, especially in the pre-Crisis "bronze age"? Like, I remember as a kid, back in the seventies, struggling to understand DC's pre-Crisis continuity, because their books where all-over-the-place, whereas Marvel's always felt a lot more straight-forward and connected. Now, their respective movie-universes feel the same way... and it looks like DC (aka Warner Bros.) has decided to just give in, and lean into it. It's almost like they've finally realized that impenetrably confounding continuity is their *brand*.
Plus DC's heroes are not just larger than life, they're (except Batman) either gods or have god-like powers. Whereas Marvel heroes are relatable people who happen to have powers
Great points!!!
All this reminds us just how damn lucky Marvel is to have Kevin Feige...while Marvel is not at all consistent, They SEEM TO CARE ABOUT PUTTING OUT COHERENT FILMS!
It's all a mentality thing. DC wants to be super hardcore and serious all the time, Marvel knows that super heroes are inherently a bit ridiculous and leans into it.
What I wonder is how did Zack Snyder become the loudest voice in the room for DC? Just on the strength of his versions of 300 and Watchmen?
@@nangke I've always wondered the same. How did a man who openly admitted to not really liking or understanding the appeal of super heroes become the poster boy for the entire DC movie franchise?
@@JDKT002 someone at Warner Bros thought the appeal of Super Heroes was Spectacle and Cool factor.
I'm betting that someone also didn't know that Snyder didn't actually write Watchmen.
@@tarecalibrav1642 no, marvel just knows how to pick talent and create good stories. the whole marvel knowing superheroes are ridiculous is total bullshit and a complete misunderstanding of why marvel is more successful. lets just say, Marvel knows how to stick a landing. people doubted that infinity war would live up to the hype and it blew it out the park.
6:35
Yeah, not to distract from the wonderwoman stuff when it's still at peak relevancy, but two ongoing, live action batmans at once? Somebody needs to have a sit down with these people.
Also probably multiple incarnations of the Joker.
@@raggedcritical Mark my words, friends. AT&T will give away the rights to everything but Batman before it's over.
I'll believe that when they can just make one decent film.
Imagine how different this ENTIRE landscape of DC movies would look if BvS had actually been, y'know, GOOD.
So if WB had stepped in and kept Zack Snyder on a short leash then instead of waiting until halfway through Justice League.
Between Cap v Iron Man, Flash v Arrow, Daredevil v Punisher and Batman v Superman, how did Batman/Superman turn out the worst?
@@orangeapples because Zack Snyder doesn't understand the characters he was writing.
@@orangeapples Because everything else were stone houses built on a solid stone foundation; while Batman v Superman was stone house built on a swamp.
Man of Steel too.
marvel: "careful dc, panned sequels lead to hate, and hate leads..."
dc: " I KNOW WHAT IT LEADS TO!!!"
Feige as the editor of the marvel universe like the old editors of comics had to keep reins on everything
Any guy in charge of a big, interconnected operation has to. The alternative is what we keep seeing with WB/DC.
Why Disney seems to knock it out of the park ALMOST everytime with Marvel Studios and why Warner Bros and DC can't seem to find their footing, I see it as that DC didn't set up proper leadership with their DC projects and go with it, where Disney and Marvel did. That's right I'm chalking it up to Marvel Studios has A Kevin Feige and DC does not. That's my view anyway.
Edit: look further down in the comments, I believe my guy Jim Ballard has an excellent point. It appears Disney/Marvel has a bit more faith in their characters and stories where WB/DC seems a bit embarrassed by it.
I guess technically you could say that DC had Zack Snyder, but that's kind of as if Marvel depended entirely on Jon Favreau and it didn't, really.
More broadly, I think the problem is faith. Marvel has faith that the books they've been selling for decades have a following that means the characters and stories have value; DC is ashamed of the books it's been selling for decades and thinks the movies need to apologize for the source material being uncool. Like, dude, if I'm buying a ticket to Wonder Woman, then I want Wonder Woman! The first movie gave me Wonder Woman and I love it! You don't have to try to fix Wonder Woman!
@@jimballard1186 - I agree, it's just an update of the embarrassed tone of comic book movies pre-X-Men. Because their idea of leadership is callous IP management/finance/marketing while being out-of-touch with their actual content, and by extension their viewers. Marvel feels like a boardroom-backed creative team, whereas with DC the corporate boardroom is trying to essentially be the creative team.
@@jimballard1186 You confuse DC and Werner...
You are 100% right, the executives almost destroyed the Avengers, on phase 2 they where given more free reign which culminated in Age of Ultron which is not as good. After that Feige was given full controll.
WB is making the same stupid mistakes that DC Comics have been making for the past three decades with never ending reboots and obsessive continuity wank.
It is Warner fault on the first place. In opposition to Disney, Werner tend to meddling and be ignorant about own property, considering DC people as weirdos in they basement.
@@TheRezro Wow. Spelling much?
Well yea, blame Geoff Johns
@@TheKevphil This argument is literally called "New Godwin Law", as only especially dub people use grammar as argument, on platform where majority of people are foreigners 0_0
@@TheRezro Are the errors in your remarks intended to be ironic or are YOU especially "dub"?
Meanwhile the Arrowverse just did an epic, literal multiverse-shattering crossover to solid reviews and it still feels like that's the franchise people on the internet prefer to hate on. Weird how these priorities work when the CW actually has a plan for their shows compared to movie world.
As I often say, success has enemies. And Arrowverse has been the only consistent success of DC comics properties for the entire 2010s. It may also sting some of the haters that a) Arrowverse has the kind of tone mixture that MCU does and b) they pulled this off on TV series budgets while DCEU films remain a most unprofitable crap shoot.
Simple: Crisis on Arrowverse made Zack Snyder look bad (by comparison) which is the 8th deadly sin.
@@rmsgrey Yeah but it's been making all that look even worse when Jon Cryer of all people somehow gave a fantastic Lex Luthor performance.
@@benwasserman8223 Which goes to show that, cultural prejudice aside, money doesn't necessarily guarantee craftsmanship.
I think people are being a little harsher on this than it deserves. It's not great, but at the same time, it's not nearly as bad as some of the DC films (looking at you Batman vs Superman). I have a suspicion that what keeps dragging these films down is that DC is trying to build up to the level of the first Avengers movie in something like ten minutes - and they also decided that everyone should hate superman, both in the universe and amongst the fandom.
I look at people's disappointment of this movie and all I can see is Obiwan standing over Anakin shouting "You were the Chosen One! I loved you!" People might just be extra mad because the first movie didnt completely suck and we all just want DC to start making good movies. Not just decent or passable movies but actual good movies.
@@Shirospyre Ah, to be the person that never learns. I mean, DC movies generally aren't great. In fact, historically, they're more often straight up bad than even just good enough.Anyhow, I see what you're saying, but the expectation seems to be more wishful thinking than based on any reality.
The way people were talking about it, I thought this movie was gonna be pure unadulterated garbage that's going to drive society 50 years backwards. Then I actually saw it. Remember, the internet RUNS on hyperbole.
Seriously. It was ok. Good bits here and there but also messy and discombobulated as hell.
The internet is just being sensationalist, hyperbolic and polarizing as always.
@@vichuang1480 As venerated as the first movie was, there is no way an "okay" sequel to Wonder Woman 2017 was gonna cut it for most people.
I really wish the Star Wars Sequels and Snyder Fans had this sort of, "Yeah, okay, look we know there are massive problems with it but we like it anyway" awareness. I feel this sort of attitude is going to make interactions between the "It was good vs it was bad" groups much nicer.
There is actually lot of people who like TFA and TLJ (RoS actually is a shit), only loud minority of ignorants crying on Tumbler, confuse people here.
It's not the sequel fans you should worry about, it's all the toxic MAGAts that infiltrated the franchise and are pandered by The Mandalorian
@@alonsoarana5307 I haven't seen the Mandalorian, but I've only seen positive things about it from people at least in my social media circles. My point wasn't that "bad people exist in fandom" because that's clearly true of most fandoms, but more that there are apologists (or just people who like the movies referenced) that think they are flawless despite so many obvious things being wrong with them.
Nah I like last jedi flaws and all and I acknowledge the flwsbut snyder fans think the the snyder cut was a masterpiece and perfect
So no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room? .... Wonder Woman sleeping with an unconscious man? Even in the movie "Ghost", Whoopi Goldberg gave consent to do the intimacy thing.
Men can't be raped
He wasn't unconscious. He was Freaky Friday'd with a dead man. There is no evidence in the narrative that Random Other Guy was in any way present for any of it. This was a comic book movie, not Get Out.
@@twincitiestara or a Kevin Smith comic book film
@@twincitiestara No, that guy isn't dead. He was unconscious with no memory of meeting her. The way he looked in our screen is the same look Diana is seeing as well. In fact, he was in the end of the movie meeting Diana near the Merry Go Round with the same tacky fashion Steve wore. That's the guy if you didn't realized.
@@ultrustic He was brought back to life when Diana "revoked her wish." At no point is it even implied that he was alive and present in his body when Steve was living in it.
Marvel is already streets ahead on building a multiverse to create independent stories
Community isn’t something one considers when reading the comments section.... but this does put a smile on my face.
@@thedukeofchutney468 I thought this was a Community reference! 😂😂😂 "If you have to ask you're streets behind!"
Say what you will about the more repetitive aspects of Marvel, but they have a plan and certain creative freedom that the DCEU never will
Iron Man 2 & the first 2 thor movies would like a word with you.
@@wwaxwork Well, Marvel can stumble. And Marvel did stumble a bunch early on. They made all the mistakes other studios made when they tried to start their own universe. But Marvel was the pioneer here. What they were doing was brand new, so nobody had any idea what to do. But DC and Universal and Sony were following Marvel, so they should have been able to sidestep Marvel's mistakes. Instead, they all made their own Iron Man 2...AFTER Iron Man 2 proved to be a misstep.
Bob, I really love how this video feels in the vein of an 'autopsy' video, but doesn't have any of the bad faith connotations to it (other than the inflammatory title meant to catch eyes). A lot of people have moved past the troglodyte rage videos of yesteryear; even a lot of the reviewers who popularized it with humorous intentions (Linkara, Nostalgia Critic, etc.) But nowadays people have traded those in for 'critics' who just act dead-eyed and sardonic. As if being poised or mumbling while delivering personal attacks and degrading implication is enough to NOT sound like an asshat. It's still TH-camrs riling up their audiences by painting creators as villains who make sub-par content with the explicit intent of making viewers feel bad; trying to instill righteous anger through victimhood born out of entitlement. But you didn't seem to go into this like you were angry at anyone who was on set. You approached us, the audience, like you had some simple bad news to break, but that it wasn't anymore dramatic than like when a home team loses a game. You encouraged a response of looking ahead to what could be done better, instead of trying to make ourselves feel better by dancing on ashes.
Yeah. I can't bring myself to click most WW84 vids. They reek of smugness and condescension.
Something where so much money is spent, culturally “significant,” and people livelihoods depends on is open to this kind of criticism. It’s not shit talking. It’s a critique cause he provides why it’s good...why it’s bad...and possible ways to fix it.
It’s needless complaining if it doesn’t provide context and solutions
Well, i stopped watching moviebob as he rated socio-political motivations higher than a coherent story, see his Star Wars reviews.
Thus i wanted to give him a new try for month, and am kind of astonished now that he does not even mention the ra-py aspects of WW84.
Could it have an impact that the victim was male and the perpetrator female? ....just asking....
@@NuclearSavety He talks about the sexual consent stuff in part 2, that's the one with spoilers.
@@NuclearSavety He covers that in Part 2.
I actually liked the lighter, goofier turn this movie tried to present.
What I didn't like was the ... implications happening with Diana and Trevor's relationship. Clearly something happened got overlooked in the rewrite.
HillE
Throughout the whole movie, I was just yelling at the screen, “Pick a tone and stick with it, idiots!”
I was referring more to what they were attempting in theory rather than execution.
But yeah, there's a lot of other issues.
Continuity is a magic trick: You have to know how it works to make people believe in it, be able to improvise in response to outside distractions, bluff like it was always the plan, and be prepared for any part of the stunt to come crashing down around you.
So basically it should be managed by experienced Dungeons and Dragons DMs?
If I had a time machine or had complete control over DC, I never compete with Marvel for live actions movies. Instead I focus on making animated movies, tv series, and potentially tie in games/comics. I mean Marvel already had their lane established by the first avengers movie so I would focus on a market they left open and needs filling. Also DC has a good track record with animated series and talented tv creators, writers, and artist they could rely on. Also I think its criminal that it took Young Justice so much effort to get a season 3 and the Harley Quinn show would have had major backing if I was in charge of DC. But hey thats just me.
@@matthewlane i have to disagree with you on that.
@@matthewlane I'm just saying we have a difference of opinion. If you hate season 3 for whatever reason cool. But my point is DC should invest in animation instead of live action because Marvel has that market on lock.
@@matthewlane oh your one of those people 🙄. Hate to break it to you but these icons are profitable and i hate the new 52 as much as the next guy but there worst animated was better than most of their DCU movies. I say go back to doing what worked. And maybe allow tv shows and animated movies to be there own continuity instead of copying the comics. DC needs to make money and what they have done since copying marvel isn't working so im just throwing out ideas.
The most awkward thing was the Trevor resurrection fiasco. No one was concerned about the poor guy who’s body was stolen. WW looked ready to let Trevor possess some guy’s body for the rest of his life....
It was a *very* weird (and unnecessary) decision.
Oh yeah, that’s a thing. Poor guy needs therapy. Even though it’s kind of like Quantum Leap.
Bring unable to shut off my empathy for this unnamed character made it impossible for me to just have fun and enjoy it as a silly, fun movie.
IKR and what is so weird is they went out of their way to let us know this guy had a life, an apartment, a career, presumably friends, family, and co-workers that would miss him...and probably come looking for him.
It’s like how can a character who represents such good, WW does not live in the grey, be tots fine with that. Doesn’t phase her at all, no moral dilemma.
I think it was a last second idea to make sure there's not a hint of a bisexual Wonder Woman for the DCEU.
DC - Definitely Crap. Loved DC Comics as a kid. This movie made me physically angry.
I was TODAY years old when I learned about the Terminator Salvation ending being changed!
Same here. I'm going to have to look this up.
I learned about it years ago, but I think after I saw the movie. I'm glad they changed it, honestly.
There was a lot changed in Salvation. Originally John Connor only had a minor role where he'd talk to troops but not be seen. When Christian Bale was cast the role was significantly beefed up.
I'm one of those people who enjoyed the movie, including most of the silly bits... There were only a couple of areas that fell flat for me. One of them was around Cheetahs story... I felt like we were sold a different version than what we got and can't help but think that is because of studio meddling
And this is why I'm over this DC experiment. They don't care so why should I.
Dear God I hope they don't make a live action Batman Beyond. That would require great care and Valerian/Jupiter Ascending levels of production. AT&T is not going to put up that kind of money for a niche Batman title that Joe Schmoe moviegoer doesn't recognize.
In addition to all these foolish and short-sighted corporate decisions being made by AT&T, the company has also decided to *_GUT_* DC Comics, eliminating most of the titles and laying off hundreds of people, many of them the cheaply available creatives behind the occasionally *_good_* concepts available.
Yeah, that one still alarms me. Leaving aside the human toll that this mass layoff causes, it kills the idea factory that keeps them competitive with Marvel, as you say. I'm still waiting for them to announce a firesale of every DC Comics property that isn't giving them any immediate or meaningful cash flow.
You're acting like 'Gotham High' wasn't a brilliant idea...!
So the Patrick H Willems "This is a movie about space wizards intended for children" gonna stick around for good then?
I hope not, it's so dismissive to sci-fi and fantasy
I hope so. It's a reminder for toxic fanboys to just chill out.
Bob described the continuity plans for DC plans, perfectly as he did, still made my head spin.
Same, that family guy clip was perfect. 😆😆
DC: "Hey, you know how trying to replicate the success of the MCU was too complex for us to do all in a rush? Let's try to set up something even *more* complex - what could possibly go wrong?"
My only complaint was the crappy day-for-night fight between Cheetah and Diana. They deserve better than a crappy dark filter to flex their kung fu.
Like seriously. Almost all scenes from this fight were in trailer as for most movie Barbara was completely different type of villain, until they randomly switch to Cheetah. Like WTF?
THANK YOU!!! I also generally liked the movie but HATED how that fight looked. Like, I don't even care if her "golden armor" would have looked power-rangers cheap in broad daylight, and I don't care if a good look at Cheetah's final form would have resembled the CGI characters from Tom Hooper's "Cats" movie. I was cool with Wonder Woman catching a cloud with her lasso and pulling herself across the sky, so I was obviously ready for a big technicolor supervillain battle right out of the pages of a Silver Age DC book. Instead we got a dark & blurry mess that looked WAY too much like the end of the first movie... and the end of Batman v. Superman... and come to think of it, the ending battles of Justice League, Suicide Squad, and even (to a lesser extant) Birds of Prey. It's like somebody at DC just decided that a dark filter is the easiest way to make these CGI-heavy scenes look convincing, and now it's the special sauce that they just add every single time. Who would have guessed, walking out of Man of Steel way back when it was first screened, that what we saw would be the best-looking final battle of the entire DCEU?
Honestly, I think my favorite DCEU final fight happened in Arrow Season 2's finale lol
The movie was so colorful up to that point. Then I noticed they switched on the boring orange and teal filter again and knew something was amiss.
"That's a beautiful name."
"It's from my culture."
I mean, aren't ALL names?
@@benvoliothefirst They are qotes from Wonder Woman 2
@@TheSugarRay Not sure how your post advances the dialogue, so... th-cam.com/video/VgICnbC2-_Y/w-d-xo.html
This movie is a big dumb mess of a thing, and it kinda did it for me. Idunno. Maybe in this case I’m one of those people into the thing everyone agrees is not good; I gave people who liked Rise of Skywalker plenty of side-eye, maybe it’s my turn.
I didn't dislike the movie. I didn't think it was great, didn't think it was bad. It was a mildly entertaining Christmas morning romp. I mean, it doesn't hold up if you stop to think about it, but neither does Aquaman. I remember almost walking out of that movie about ten minutes in, then telling myself, "It's okay, just turn off your brain, look at the pretty colors, and try not to think about anything too hard." Once you do that, it's kinda fun.
Same thing.
No. Not even close to being kinda fun.
@@CasepbX Fun is subjective. Some people find golf fun, others do not; some people find slasher films fun, others do not. One person's fun is another person's boredom. You did not have fun, but that does not preclude others from finding enjoyment.
I had fun and thought it was okay.
But it needed to be more than that. As the blockbuster superhero film of 2020 it didn't carry its weight.
I'm firmly in the "I know it's bad and I liked it anyway" camp, because I classify WW84 in the same category as, like, the Fantastic Four movies or the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy. Dumb, but colorful and earnest, and I sometimes I need that.
That's the single best "defense" for the prequels I have ever read. I wish more people were honest about it, like you.
For me The Bee Movie also falls into this category
I think it makes a big difference that we all watched this for free in the comfort of our homes, which doesn't make it feel like a 200+ mil production. But if mass post endgame audiences went to a theater to watch this ...we'd probably be asking for Patty Jenkins to resign.
@@shindean People ARE asking her to step down. They don't want her near WW3 or Rogue Squadron. It's kind of amazing that once a female director gets into a position of power that fans suddenly turn on them because they don't provide them with exactly what they want.
@@getreal2592 I don't believe that statement you said is completely true, Bryce Dallas Howard has done multiple Mando episodes and she's gained more followers and love for it. But women will face harsher and immediate criticism for doing a poor job on a famed property, and that is not fair but it doesn't help her cause when she let down the DCEU fans who thought the company hit a turning point.
I lost hope in the opening scene where she magically worked out that 2 of the people blending in the crowd in the mall, were part of the robbery.
I was severly disappointed by the fact she'd basically been moping around for 50 years sad about her one and only love interest of a week, in her 900 year life.....what is that.....
@@aceflibble if that's the case, then that week that she spent with Trevor should have been equivalent to an hour for her, not enough time to fall completely in love with Trevor.
Most of the complaints I see about the movie are things like "It's a terrible movie because they never explained why Lord was able to get things from other people's wishes," and they did explain that.
So far, out of all the complaints I've heard, I don't get why people have a problem with it.
The only real issue I have is that Wonder Woman spends much of the movie pining over a man. A female empowerment icon really shouldn't spend that much time fussing over a love interest.
Other than that, I just don't get what all the whining is about. Sorry.
same
Imagine this, you fall in love with someone after living on an island for the your whole life without any men and knowing him for such a short time and he dies and you have to live the rest of your life without him and then you get the option to get him back?
Wouldn't you feel the same, I rather they do that instead of making her a total feminist who "doesn't need a man" she's a loving but powerful and smart woman, that's true femininity right there
You enjoyed it. That's cool. The fact that MOST people didn't means that there's probably more than just 2 minor things that others find fault with it. If it really was just those 2 things then don't you think the majority of people would agree with you?
I'd say you should check out Movie Bob's actual review if you haven't already, he goes into way way more depth about the details of the film (both the stuff it did really well, and the areas that fell short), and the critique you mentioned about her kind of revolving around Chris Pine's character is featured prominently in his discussion (again both the ways it could've worked but also the ways it struggled)
That was my big issue with the movie. The living embodiment of the phrase "strong independent woman who don't need no man" spends most of the movie not wanting to lose the ghost of her long dead boyfriend. Then basically has to be told by the same guy she needs to move on. I'm not against the idea of a love that transcends time, but she knew this guy for at best a few months and shes still mot over him 60 years later? I mean I could see 10 years, 20 years maybe, and 30 years would be pushing it,but after 60 years? Move on woman! Imho the movie almost works, but that was a big glaring issue. Wonder woman shouldn't have to be told she needs to move on. She should either learn it or have already moved on or have just gotten over him at the very least. I enjoyed the movie otherwise, but that feels like they didn't really understand the character of wonder woman and the first movie was a fluke.
Part 1, huh???
Looking forward to this...
I have to say that "Odin's Treasures FAKE" clip is the perfect clip for talking about how continuity isn't that big an issue with MCU, and I thank Marvel, Kevin Feige, and Taika Waititi for including it in Thor Ragnarok!
The wishing rock being tied into Desire from Sandman would actually have been kind of cool. Maybe that's an origin they'll try to retroactively put in.
It is, but the continuity is loosely knit enough that there is still a lot of freedom to play around.
@@jiado6893
That's not the kind of game the Endless bother with. It's incredibly small scale by their reckonining and it doesn't mess with the relatives. And making it the Duke Of Desception actually ties it into Wonder Woman lore.
"You CAN make these these things up on the fly!"
Like the Star Wars sequels?
and prequels, let's not forget
@@benvoliothefirst They weren't made up on the fly, and the themes were solid... the execution was just... terrible.
@@jonathonbisiach749 Except that people didn't like Jar Jar so George had to rewrite the whole thing to erase Darth Jar Jar, and he was turning in scripts literally DAYS before filming started. See also: th-cam.com/video/VgICnbC2-_Y/w-d-xo.html
Or like the Star Wars original trilogy.
@@Carabas72 Also a fair point!
I fall into the "All the criticisms are true but I liked it anyway" camp. The only things that actually bugged me during the watching of the thing was the editing and the stunted setup/payoff beats. I wonder if a #JenkinsCut would have done better with that.
Yeah, this reminds of what the Fandom Menace response to those who like the The Last Jedi (ie, they know it sucked but they liked it anyway). As if there is no valid reason to like WW84 and just like it anyway for reasons. I really hate that kind of thinking, it's completely lazy and disingenuous to think anyone who likes a movie that you do not must be either dumb or willfully blind.
Agreed. I think WW84 is like some cult classics where it's not particularly good, but there's something about it that just clicks with you because there are few other pieces of media like it. It's not for everyone, but for the people it IS for, it just really resonates with them. I think in a decade fans are going to look back and reevaluate this movie as something unique and worth more than it seems.
As a guy who is kinda excited for Snyder Cut nufff with the directors cuut
@@moonlitebrite9317 There are legit reasons why I dislike this movie, like it is boring, has weak villains and based purely on gimmicks. But I can't say that people who like it are dumb or something. This movie is just wasted opportunity, not true garbage.
I think unless the movie is boring or not interesting, every kind of movie can be enjoyable, I haven't watched the movie yet but I heard it was really boring at times, so it was the factor for me to not watch it.
The impression I got was more that they were hands off on this film. Patty Jenkins made "the only good" DCEU film and they're still sorting through backlash about the Justice league reshoot.
I think they just gave her free license to make her auteur vision. To me the movie felt like it needed some studio interference and editing out some self indulgent moments.
The problem with DC's plans with the movies seems to be lacking a crucial step - namely, stop making bad movies. Flashpoint is probably gonna end with them saying, "Now all the bad movies are non-canon," but that won't mean a thing if they don't stop making bad movies!
Kinda like how a pardon is kind of pointless if you're going to pull new crimes after.
I find it funny how even after moving to the big screen, DC Comics are still kind of not entirely there. Not that they’re bad or anything like that. But for decades Marvel has always had at least some semblance of knowing what it was they wanted to do with its IP (we don’t talk about the Clone Saga). DC has always been a confusing amalgamation of properties dating back from the early 20th century that got updated, retconned, and pulled forward. And it appears they’re taking that same scattershot attitude going forward.
If you haven't already, read the excellent book Slugfest, which chronicles the roots of this dysfunction from the rise of Marvel Comics in the Silver Age on. It's a fascinating story.
My brother and I were both kinda confused over Steve Trevor's amazement with subways and escalators, after all, they had all those things in 194-- OH WAIT HE'S FROM WORLD WAR I NOT II.
Except both of those things would've been common knowledge by World War 1 - by that time the London Underground had been running for about 50 years.
Surprise, surprise, the company that allowed "Granny's Peach Tea" to make it to the final cut of BvS seems to be having some management and production issues.
Honestly, it's more surprising that the original WW film came out as good as it did, since a relative lack of quality now seems to be the standard.
Just be glad Snyder didn't get to do his "Batman gets raped in prison" thing. Yet. Who knows what the Snyder Cut brings us?
Jenkins is a good director, but she did not write the first WW movie. Then she got a lot of credit for WW1 and got to write the second one in addition to directing duty. Turned out bad.
Giving-people-too-much-power-based-on-the-success-of-a-collaborative-effort shall henceforth be known as the George Lucas Problem.
Give her a good writer for WW3 and it will probably be fine
Adagio Redshift
She single handedly wrote Monster, which had a great screenplay. I smell executive meddling in this mess.
@@archer1949 just because she did 'Monster' doesn't mean she was qualified to write and direct a superhero film.
She clearly missed the mark by a wide shot with WW1984. And Patti Jenkins was give 100% creative control over WW1984. It wasn't any Exec interference this time around. This was all Patti.
people watch so much The Boys, they forget that Wonder Woman can fly.
Well from wat I remember, in the comics she didn't usually fly. Except for in her invisible jet. 🤷🏾♂️ but I'm old and probably wrong... then again, I don't recall her flying in the first movie at all either (I haven't watched 1984 yet)
@@goleft4088 she had the power of flight since the silver age iirc, currently she can reach half the speed of light, apparantly. comics are weird.
WW began "gliding on air currents" in the Silver Age, either 1950's or early 60's. She gained the full power of flight in the George Perez reboot in 1987.
@@RawbeardX
And Superman started out with the strength of ten men and the ability to jump over tall buildings. Power creep happens when characters stick around for almost a century.
@@Carabas72 yes... and?
Bob gonna change things up! I can't wait to see whats next! We got your back homie! haha
Jesus christ when he explained DC's plan it nearly made my brain melt. Wtf
@3:51 I have to laugh at that point just because I am totally in the camp of "I am stuck at home and WTF else am I gonna do with time!!" and "It's dumb but why not just enjoy it because it exists ^_^, the part way through the movie I am like "Wait, did she just lasso a bolt of lightning?? And then following that with.. Wait, did she just lasso a flipping plane??"
I think the fact that Patty Jenkins jumped right on board to making Rogue Squadron, is also probably a bit of evidence that she needed a break from working with WB/AT&T and things didn't quite go how she wanted with WW1984.
1. Who turns down an offer to make a Star Wars movie? 2. She seems fine with helming WW3 as soon as it got greenlit.
Until she doesn't write script it probably would be fine.
Wait...Wonder Woman flies now? Even though she didn’t do so in movies they take place chronologically after this?
Yeah what the fuck happened 😂
It was sort of ambiguous whether she could fly in Dawn Of Justice.
@@Carabas72 She was just jumping really high in that movie
They should have used Dr.Fate when they got to Egypt.
He could have fixed most of these stupid problems.
The Indian Rastafarian who read the Mayan texts wasn’t Dr. Fate?
@@Poochiekoo17 nope!
The problem with having Dr Fate come in and fix all the problems is it renders Wonder Woman useless.
@@NickPiers not really.
Dr Fate doesn't have to actively save the day, he can just observe how Fate favours and advise the heroes then repair the damage once the dust is settled.
@@V4Now so he’s that one guy who just strolls in, looks around and goes “Wow, you screwed up.” And then leaves and maybe do some mindwipes?
What this movie honestly reminded me of was some of the bigger David Tennant Doctor Who episodes. When there's 4 or 5 different things happening at the same time at different places around the world and sometimes in space, and the camera is constantly cutting between the different locations in the final minutes before the world ends. So the wildness of the movie wasn't something I wasn't unaccustomed to.
Yeah, it felt a lot like Series 4 era Doctor Who. Which I love a lot, but tends to only hang together by the strength of the characters you’ve been following for x many episodes.
Nail on the head right there. It had the messy plotting of Doctor Who (which I can and do forgive a lot).
The lasso now does what it needs to do and is effectively 'sonic'.
There was a companion who could ask questions
There were problems solved just because the lead is a goddess/alien and can 'do that thing now'
The whole thing centres on a magic/alien macguffin that has a specific 'hook' and seems benign but its actually disastrous
And, as you point out, a global montage catastrophe that cannot be solved just by punching and shooting things
I enjoyed it because I wanted to enjoy it.
(NB: I imagine that The Doctor would have had a different reaction to the 'Steve Trevor Problem' - even if it had been Rose or River)
DCEU seems to really want to be the DC-ew
They should have called it Wonder Woman and the Magic Wishing Rock. And the fact that they could’ve should tell you everything you need to know.
Is it just me or does it seem WB is trying to play speed catch up to Marvel. Making last minute changes, plans, plots, multiverse all the while Marvel as started this years ago and is already about to explain their own multiverse much better.
Not just you...it's been the basic mistake of DCEU since they decided making BVS was a great idea.
I unironically enjoyed it !! It put a good smile on my face . And gave good theme about our struggles in life and why they are necessary
Agreed, I largely don't see the massive narrative issues being mentionned.
It's a bit convoluted but it works and everyone does a fantastic job in it (I heart Pedro Pascal so much; his ending made me bawl).
The action scenes are less crunchy than I wanted them and there's perhaps too much focus on the female lead's heartbreak; but otherwise, it's really good stuff.
Critics giving it between a 65 and a 75 are on point as far as I'm concerned.
While I liked it and enjoyed it unironically (how does one enjoy something ironically anyway?) I do not think it was very good or well made.
@@Carabas72 well it’s kinda like when you love a movie is so bad it’s good that’s how you ironically like it .
@@EyedMite
Yeah, my brain doesn't work that way.
@@Carabas72 hey! To each his own no problem!
I steered totally clear of WW84 chatter until I saw it last week and was a bit taken aback by people's responses. I really liked it. It felt very like a Reeves Superman movie to me, so it was pushing at an open door here. I don't care about the external continuity. Also, Wondy swung off a lightening bolt at one point. I was grinning ear to ear at that one.
Short summary:
bad script - good idea of using envy and greed as motivation but c'mon you need a good script.
bad CGI - supposedly the veteran team that did the first film and other DC films (e.g. JL and BvS) was dumped - while they were not necessarily great - the current results were shockingly bad.
bad timing - the second film in a series needs to really solidify the fandom. Empire Strikes Back wasn't just a good film for the SW series, it helped make SW fandom soar - it showed what the series could be. This film did not help the WW franchise.
misreading nostalgia - yes, people liked the original Lynda Carter TV show but it was an OK TV show - people's expectations have moved on - they expect more - you can't do a Batman movie like the campy Batman 1966 movie no matter how much people may smile at Adam West's portrayal. This is true of all genre. War movies are hard to do now since Saving Private Ryan - and the Omaha Beach scene .
The first movie already sh... all over the original Lynda Carter TV show. They can't expect that they can first discard all the good aspects which made the show so successful and then please the audience by referencing all the worst aspects of it.
I'm continually baffled at how bad the effects are in most of the DCEU productions. Like, I know that Disney has all the money, but they don't have a monopoly on good VFX studios. And yeah, the MCU occasionally drops the ball too (Black Panther's third act) but on the whole, they keep the quality up. Whereas most of the big-budget DCEU movies look absolutely amateurish. Ironically, I feel like their mid-budget movies like Birds of Prey end up looking best because they aren't trying so hard.
@@jasonblalock4429 Maybe not a monopoly, but they have easy access to the best in the business since Disney bought Lucas film with everything connected to it. Plus, CGI and Animation are closely connected.
@@swanpride Yeah, but there are still loads of good VFX houses out there which aren't affiliated with Disney. There's just no excuse for a movie like Justice League to look as bad as it did.
They should’ve connected the envy and concept to the seven deadly sins from Shazam. The magic fits with Themyscira, and Hercules and Zeus are Roman god’s. You can’t connect the two like that and help build up the universe.
This was an *unnecessary sequel* starring a beautiful woman (whose acting skills are debatable), two comic book villains who were completely watered down and essentially useless supervillains, and ALOT of bad CGI, corny acting, lackluster fight scenes, random storylines, and just an movie that the original screenwriter(s) who wrote it should feel embarrassed 😬😆
There are a lot of things to criticize about this movie, but the "wishing stone" central plot point hardly seems like one of them given the unquestioned success of the Infinity Stones in the MCU. Those are essentially wishing stones, too. So is it a question of how the material is presented that allows one to be accepted and the other not?
I think it's the fact that the Infinity Stones were established over a span of several movies before Marvel unleashed their full "magic wishing stone potential". In the beginning, they were just curiosities, appearing sporadically but still fitting into the world of the MCU. If I understand it correctly, the stone in WW84 kinda comes out of nowhere, especially considering how "gritty and serious" the DCEU tried to be for a long time.
"I'm Bob and at least for now, that's the big picture" pretty ominous ending there
Maybe has a contract lined up?
I thought its because its part 1
Movie Bob! Where ya been? Good stuff as always
The best description of why it's so bad. I've watched many reviews. Thanks for this.
I particularly liked listing to Chapo Trap House tear it a new one.
Shazam and Aquaman being so enjoyable set me up with higher expectations.
What a stinker,I had to watch Soul and Wolfwalkers to wash off the stink.
Looking forward to part 2. Still can’t see Wonder Woman 1984 in the Philippines since most theaters have been closed since March and will probably remain closed in the foreseeable future. Your video essays on Batman v. Superman and Superman the Movie were really insightful and enjoyable to watch.
I wonder what was going in developing during the script writing during the re-edits
DCEU: Who gives a shit anymore?
The legion of superfans who still want vindication that's never coming.
Classic Bob video. Quality.
I have a theory for at least one of the changes in this movie.
She Ra.
When Dianna and Barbara met, it all felt like a romance setup. I'm not the only person who has noticed this. I've seen at least a couple threads in various communities in part of calling the film out for queerbaiting.
I think originally Dianna and Barbara have that same meeting and "date" they do at the start of the film; but then Steve comes back and Barbara has accidentally wished some of her humanity away.
A lot of their character arcs hinged on this I think. Dianna realizing she was living in the past and needing to let go to move on, and feeling horrible about jilting Barbara like that, and Barbara realizing she is really jealous and her wishes have just made her really petty about it.
It actually even makes Barbara rescinding her wish make actual sense, while in the film as is...it just kinda happens for reasons.
There was likely some executive pushback on this; but I think somewhere along the line She Ra happened and suddenly they were going to look like they were copying the Wonder Woman stand-in unrequited love for cat themed rival/villain lesbian thing.
And I think all the heart in this movie was in the scenes cut to remove that.
If I'm right, I really want to see a director's cut.
People act like the first WW was good. This is exactly what i expected based on the first one.
BIG FACTS
I'm just confused by the confusion. Lots of the criticisms I understand: but was this really hard to follow? I didn't have any trouble following the plot, to me it seemed pretty simple and even cliche. Yeah, the expositionary dialog was often clunky, but to me it wasn't confusing.
Wow
This sounds like the worst version of a DC movie universe we could've gotten, from its inception to their strategy for the future.
Fuck me
I agree. I shouldn't ask where is Superman?
@@TheRezro well previously he was seen moping in the Himalayas and then dead atop a cave troll, haven't seen him since.
@@ClericOfPholtus It was before that. But seriously. That was world scale clusterfuck! Did they forget that there were hundreds Superheroes there? Like they could drop some Amethyst Princes, Black Lightning, Jade, Power Girl or some other forgotten 80's hero who would never get opportunity to be on screen otherwise, at least doing something in background. But no! Magic wish stones, fine. Minimal level of continuity bad!
@@TheRezro Some of those lesser heroes you just mentioned? I look for them to get sold off in a future WB firesale.
Colin Trevorrow gets announced as a Star Wars Director: The Book of Henry is critically reviled.
Patty Jenkins gets announced as a Star Wars Director: Wonder Woman 1984 is critically reviled.
It's like a curse... I guess we'll have to see what happens with Taika Waititi and 'Love and Thunder'...
You are only watching the ones reviled before making a SW movie.
Eh to be fair, Wonder Woman 1984’s critic score is better than The Book of Henry’s at the time of typing, so I wouldn’t go that far.
Josh Trank too
Not the same, Waititi has an impeccable track record; actually he has a track record, Jenkins had only made 1 theatrical film before Wonder Woman, and Trevorrow 2 (and they weren't very good); meanwhile Taika Waititi has 6 and at least 4 of them are good (I don't know anything about _Boy_ or _Eagle vs Shark_ )
@@MakiPcr those are very good
It is conceivable that the production company did not make any serious post production changes/corrections is that they were facing huge profit losses from 2020 theater closures, and the uncertainty of profits from HBO max. They might have decided to spend as little as possible and hope they made their money back.
8:00 FOOOK BOB!!! that spiraled me back into a Hela youtube hole!!! I WANT HER BACK NOW!!!
I did find the first one really boring. Birds of prey is the only DC film I liked so far but seem to put my self through them in hope. I love Wig and Pascal so tempted though...
Holy crap I haven’t seen a moviebib video in forever I’m subbed and everything
As some on who really likes first WW movie and is over all fan of character I am still looking forward to seeing this one no matter what other people might say about. Am I going to like it when I see it? Possibly yes. Personally I am tired to overly dark Snyder style. What I want from comic book movies is to feel like comic books and if WW84 delivers that I am going to be happy.
Looks like WB is going half in on my suggestion of not caring about continuity between movies. For years I've been saying they shouldn't try to imitate Marvel and have every movie be a stand-alone. That way you don't have to worry about things from previous movies unless you want to and can switch up the actors. But saying that it's a multiverse is like trying to have the advantages of stand-alone movies while saying it's part of a bigger picture. That's just not going to work. You need to jump in with both feet and make it a point of telling the audience that you don't need to remember what happened in 22 movies that span over a decade. Each movie is fresh. Want to try having Superman be from India and Batman from Japan? Great! If it flops, send them back to Smallville and Gotham for the next movie.
As the 2010s have proven, when it comes to DCEU, they have commitment issues.
Ultimately the problem is that it doesn't work particular well even on its own terms. The proof of that is Shazam which is similar in tone and subject, although it's a picture of restraint in comparison to WW84.
Honestly, I’ve been wondering for the longest time what the « tone », so to speak, of WW in general is supposed to be. It doesn’t help that her rogue gallery is lackluster to an almost legendary level.
Hit the nail on the head. Looking forward to part two.
For some reason, every time I hear Flashpoint I think of the web preservation project, not the superhero tie-in event
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!
I don't think I've ever seen on Rotten Tomatoes a movie that came hot out of the gate red hot and be certified fresh in the first couple of dozen reviews with a low 90s rating plummet so fast once more reviews poured in dropped to barely fresh in the low 60s in so short of a time.
That it still has a positive rating is kind of crazy to me.
@@aaronhumphrey3514 Just barely though. It's at 61 and under 60 is rotten. But the fact that it plummeted to nearly rotten after being certified fresh is absolutely crazy because when they certify a movie fresh it's with the assumption that based on the number of positive reviews as well as the quality of those positive reviews that it's going to stay in at least the lower to mid 80s once a large number of reviews come out. I'm not a RT historian but I don't think this has ever happened.
@@arlopear7136 Kind of makes you wonder about those early reviews...
Dont know what it is, but the audio in this video is hard to listen to to me. Seems like his mic is overtuning a little. Other than that, of course I love the content.
At this point I kinda just wish they'd partner with the CW and get their actors into the DC films. Why not? Like 'em or not the CW DC Universe is successful and a known quantity in that regard. Getting Grant Gustin to play the Flash in movies for example just seems like a logical choice to me and I really wish it'd happen. Yes I know there are legalities in play here but I can't help but feel like those could be overcome.
that would never happen
@@macksonedinis3670 true but one can dream
Two and a half hours is way too long for a film aimed more directly at kids. It didn't feel like anything was cut, more like they just wouldn't stop adding things.
It felt like a lot of Barbara Minerva's scenes were cut.
Where tf is moviebob from?!? His accent is driving me nuts!
Boston.
Ahh makes all the sense in the world lol
@@anthonyrobles4127 I think you mean BAH-ston.
I really wish WB & DC would just step back, take a good look at itself, what it's done, where it's going, and say "Okay! We are taking a break until we can figure out what we want, and how we want to do it successfully w/ the best intentions; until then, SHUT IT DOWN!" As much as i want to be a DC fan, i can't fathom all the bad decisions they've made, and keep making. Sorry to all :(
They're afraid of missing the money train MCU is riding completely. Nobody in Hollywood wants to be first but everybody wants to be second. The problem is that if they DID wait like you say, they might actually get where they want to be.
Oh, gods, they have learned nothing from past failures if they're going with multiverse explanations.
Multiverse isn't an explanation, it's merely the backdrop of everyday reality. Entertainment doesn't need to be stuck with common-sense notions of physics from 150 years ago. Assume that every shot in every movie was done in a parallel universe - because it was.
@@voltijuice8576 That still doesn't explain random teleporting, until that is actual skill of someone.
@@voltijuice8576 Established fact: it was such pretentious bullshit that cut the legs out from under DCEU from the start. A concept like that demands the sort of rigor and thought that has yet to be demonstrated by WB on this.
Oddly, the recent DC Superhero Girls cartoon designed strictly for little girls handled the morals and ethos of Wonder Woman with more maturity than the "You Know, For Kids!" approach of WW84...
its warner bros and dc when have they gotten any of this right outside the cartoon movies at all.
Shazam was pretty good, but that's more the exception than the rule.
As trash as the plot is, the biggest offense of it all was that it's such a massive bore. So god damn boring! If it was still a dumb fun flick it wouldn't be nearly as bad. But it wasn't. At least it made me laugh at how bad some parts were.
So it was a shorter version of BVS?
Kee doing the lords work movie bob 💪🏽
My biggest problem with this film is the tone is all over the place. It goes from happy, goofy, silliness, to grimdark "oh my God the world is going to end" and back at the drop of a hat. It was schizophrenic.
Bipolar might be a better description.
Can't wait for part 2. And if you're up for it, I'd love to hear your take on how tone-deaf Wonder Woman's line at the end comes across. Is it OK to do spoilers in comments here?
I enjoyed WW84! Escapist popcorn movie with a heart. I liked the Richard Donner-esque quality to it. While utterly eclipsed by Superman the movie, it seemed to draw more from Superman II with a healthy dose of Superman III. It was better than Zack Snyder’s dark, brooding morass DC movies, Suicide Squad, and Birds zig Pray (Huntress isn’t unfunny comic relief and Cassandra Caine should be awesome).Thats all said, Bob, your analysis is the best critical review I’ve heard posted on TH-cam yet. I enjoyed it, as I enjoy most of your reviews.
Jesus, not only was this movie so terrible I fell asleep watching it, 4 times christmas day, the review of it is putting me to sleep! Thank you, I couldn't sleep!
Bob, she just leveled up! Besides Superman can fly now, and he just used to be able to jump.
Aqua man forgot he could control water now Wonder Woman forgot she could fly.....wait what?