Hi mate, I was wondering if you could comment on aftermarket batteries and specifically cylindrical vs pouch cells used. Eg. eBMX have made comments on YT stating their chosen pouch cells simply don't swell. But I have read a bunch of comments on various forums from customers who had it happen and ebmx replaced them. My understanding is basically that it is just lottery and a built in reality that it will happen after enough units are built/sold. Also any links to data from yourself or other viewers on this would be appreciated. I am thinking about buying a high capacity battery for an ebike but I also am thinking about safety and how to deal with it if something happens when it has charge lol!
If you look at any application where pouch or "box" cells are used, they are held in some kind of compression box. It's not that they don't swell, they are not allowed to swell. This is probably what EBMX meant. Bulging or swelling is a known problem for non-cylindrical cells of all kinds. It is why you keep them under a little compression so they are not allowed to swell. I don't work for or represent EBMX in any way. I can't really comment on what their policy is or why they say what they say or what they warranty or don't warranty from any form of "insider" point of view. I'm purely an outsider and 100% independent party from EBMX. Anything I say is general comments about general battery construction. You can look at videos done by Munro Live and see the compression frames around packs that are made from box or pouch style cells. It's just a reality with these kinds of cells that they need compression on them to inhibit swelling. I've never seen the internals of an EBMX pack so I can't comment on how they accomplish this, but I could probably guess. What I can say about EBMX is that they tend to keep their word and do what they say they do. You see me be rather vocal about companies that are corrupt and don't keep their word or lie about their products (KO Moto, Electro & Co, Torp). I have yet to find reason to say anything negative about EBMX! They do what they say, keep their promises, deliver hardware that operates as they claim it does, try to make everything as good as possible and to NOT cut corners...enough said!
@de-bodgery they use a hard shell and pot out the contents. But the reality as I understand it and from comments from customers, is there will be a % of 'swole' if you build enough units no matter your mitigation. Anyway thanks for the very fast reply. Here's one of their vids with a bit of detail on their construction. th-cam.com/video/2DgE8bcT7tM/w-d-xo.html
@@tau3457 The stainless steel hard shell is better than just about anything else I've seen in this form factor. Whats more, they show it to you! No BS, no spin...here's our pack on camera taken apart and lets look at what we are doing. I haven't looked, but does anyone else do that? They are using the outer shell to control swelling as the cells themselves are not under any direct compression. I don't have a problem with this method. It will control cell swelling. The entire pack is potted to control swelling and movement even more. I agree that there will be swelling...this can't be avoided with pouch cells! All pouch cells swell if you don't control it!!! You mitigate and control it by putting the cells in some form of slight compression. I think the EBMX design is doing that! With the flat walls of their shell, you'd see them bulging outwards drastically if there was significant swelling issues with their pack. I've seen swollen cells many times and it is unlikely that you would get this pack to slide down inside a typical Surron or Talaria frame if it was swollen. The gaps around the pack are just too tight for that. I wouldn't fear the construction or cells they use. This is EBMX...they do good work. Matt mentions laser welds for their cell tabs. Tesla on their own 4680 cells uses laser welds. This is a highly reliable way to make joints and is not cheap! I'd use this pack myself.
@de-bodgery the failures I have found online said the bulging of the case was vertical (top and/or bottom). I think just because of the geometry of the case, the sides held up more. Or maybe the pouches with issue just happened to be in that section. Anyway yeah, it just seems a built in risk of playing in this space imo and going with whichever vendor you feel safest on warranty / customer support with. Like I said I could not find an ebmx customer that had a failure, who they did not eventually replace it for. But there are also not that many 2+ year old customers. I think Aussies will have a better result outside of warranty time because of our consumer laws. Edit. I like to think them being in the Aussie market is also why they are more open. We have more regulation here, if you claim something as a vendor you need to follow through on it or our regulator will wreck you with Gov backing.
@@tau3457 The cells are long pouches and oriented vertical inside the EBMX case. You can see that in the video you referenced. Ford uses them in their packs for their cars and trucks. IF they were to bulge, they would do so to the flat sides of the battery box and not upwards or downwards. I can't imagine the cells causing what ever this "top to bottom bulging" might be. The cells probably wouldn't cause this! Pouch cells do have designed in empty space for gas build-up inside the pouch. I've seen these added spaces expand in pouch cells, but it is small expansion. Since they are on all the thin edges of the cells, I guess it is possible that this might allow some amount of swelling up or down. OF course the potting would really restrict even this little amount of expansion. *** I personally like 18650 and 21700 cells best. You never have issues with expansion with them. They have an internal vent under the top pole. If they do build up gasses, that just exits out the vent. They are also easy to orient into most any shape. Spot welding is easy and anyone can buy spot welders since they are inexpensive. Biggest issues with them is the much lower current discharge rates from them vs much larger pouch cells. To me this isn't that big of a deal...just use many in parallel.
If your BAC8000 in in fact shorted internally, then you have more going on than just some firmware issue. It can probably be repaired, but it's likely more than "connecting to a computer"
Thanks for your feedback. There is a lot of interest in that motor for razors because it seems to be the fastest direct fit motor available (according to the guy importing them).. It takes the top spot from the EC4P , and I think you had a big part in bursting the bubble on that one. If you are able to get your hands on one, I’m sure many people would be curious to hear your assessment. I think it’s only right that after exposing the EC4P you get a crack at the motor destined to replace it…
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
You are the best! Thanks Richard!
Enjoy your vids! Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Great!
Can you do Shul review C350 controller ?
I missed the group buy for the TP-128. Do you have any you would sell? Didn’t know if you bought any extra’s
Right now no
@@de-bodgery Still no extras to sell? I hope all is well, I know you said you had a lot going on right now...
First come first served...got one spare. Contact me on FB Richard Gumfaw.
@@BLWN402 First come first served...got one spare. Contact me on FB Richard Gumfaw.
very cool!
how do these motors compare to the stock sur ron motor?
very different design with different design goals.
@@de-bodgery thank you! what is the goal of these?
Hi mate, I was wondering if you could comment on aftermarket batteries and specifically cylindrical vs pouch cells used. Eg. eBMX have made comments on YT stating their chosen pouch cells simply don't swell. But I have read a bunch of comments on various forums from customers who had it happen and ebmx replaced them. My understanding is basically that it is just lottery and a built in reality that it will happen after enough units are built/sold. Also any links to data from yourself or other viewers on this would be appreciated. I am thinking about buying a high capacity battery for an ebike but I also am thinking about safety and how to deal with it if something happens when it has charge lol!
If you look at any application where pouch or "box" cells are used, they are held in some kind of compression box. It's not that they don't swell, they are not allowed to swell. This is probably what EBMX meant. Bulging or swelling is a known problem for non-cylindrical cells of all kinds. It is why you keep them under a little compression so they are not allowed to swell. I don't work for or represent EBMX in any way. I can't really comment on what their policy is or why they say what they say or what they warranty or don't warranty from any form of "insider" point of view. I'm purely an outsider and 100% independent party from EBMX. Anything I say is general comments about general battery construction. You can look at videos done by Munro Live and see the compression frames around packs that are made from box or pouch style cells. It's just a reality with these kinds of cells that they need compression on them to inhibit swelling. I've never seen the internals of an EBMX pack so I can't comment on how they accomplish this, but I could probably guess. What I can say about EBMX is that they tend to keep their word and do what they say they do. You see me be rather vocal about companies that are corrupt and don't keep their word or lie about their products (KO Moto, Electro & Co, Torp). I have yet to find reason to say anything negative about EBMX! They do what they say, keep their promises, deliver hardware that operates as they claim it does, try to make everything as good as possible and to NOT cut corners...enough said!
@de-bodgery they use a hard shell and pot out the contents. But the reality as I understand it and from comments from customers, is there will be a % of 'swole' if you build enough units no matter your mitigation. Anyway thanks for the very fast reply. Here's one of their vids with a bit of detail on their construction. th-cam.com/video/2DgE8bcT7tM/w-d-xo.html
@@tau3457 The stainless steel hard shell is better than just about anything else I've seen in this form factor. Whats more, they show it to you! No BS, no spin...here's our pack on camera taken apart and lets look at what we are doing. I haven't looked, but does anyone else do that? They are using the outer shell to control swelling as the cells themselves are not under any direct compression. I don't have a problem with this method. It will control cell swelling. The entire pack is potted to control swelling and movement even more. I agree that there will be swelling...this can't be avoided with pouch cells! All pouch cells swell if you don't control it!!! You mitigate and control it by putting the cells in some form of slight compression. I think the EBMX design is doing that! With the flat walls of their shell, you'd see them bulging outwards drastically if there was significant swelling issues with their pack. I've seen swollen cells many times and it is unlikely that you would get this pack to slide down inside a typical Surron or Talaria frame if it was swollen. The gaps around the pack are just too tight for that. I wouldn't fear the construction or cells they use. This is EBMX...they do good work. Matt mentions laser welds for their cell tabs. Tesla on their own 4680 cells uses laser welds. This is a highly reliable way to make joints and is not cheap! I'd use this pack myself.
@de-bodgery the failures I have found online said the bulging of the case was vertical (top and/or bottom). I think just because of the geometry of the case, the sides held up more. Or maybe the pouches with issue just happened to be in that section. Anyway yeah, it just seems a built in risk of playing in this space imo and going with whichever vendor you feel safest on warranty / customer support with. Like I said I could not find an ebmx customer that had a failure, who they did not eventually replace it for. But there are also not that many 2+ year old customers. I think Aussies will have a better result outside of warranty time because of our consumer laws.
Edit. I like to think them being in the Aussie market is also why they are more open. We have more regulation here, if you claim something as a vendor you need to follow through on it or our regulator will wreck you with Gov backing.
@@tau3457 The cells are long pouches and oriented vertical inside the EBMX case. You can see that in the video you referenced. Ford uses them in their packs for their cars and trucks. IF they were to bulge, they would do so to the flat sides of the battery box and not upwards or downwards. I can't imagine the cells causing what ever this "top to bottom bulging" might be. The cells probably wouldn't cause this! Pouch cells do have designed in empty space for gas build-up inside the pouch. I've seen these added spaces expand in pouch cells, but it is small expansion. Since they are on all the thin edges of the cells, I guess it is possible that this might allow some amount of swelling up or down. OF course the potting would really restrict even this little amount of expansion.
***
I personally like 18650 and 21700 cells best. You never have issues with expansion with them. They have an internal vent under the top pole. If they do build up gasses, that just exits out the vent. They are also easy to orient into most any shape. Spot welding is easy and anyone can buy spot welders since they are inexpensive. Biggest issues with them is the much lower current discharge rates from them vs much larger pouch cells. To me this isn't that big of a deal...just use many in parallel.
What is the name of your go-to connector?
I mostly buy them in ebay. I look for "6 pin IP68 connector" or "8 pin IP68 connector". They LLT on them. I think that is who makes the connectors.
Do you think the tronic 750 handle 32s ? at 134v
Did you watch my video on that specific thing?
Hello we have a bac8000 we have shorted is this something that can be plugged into a computer ans reset thanks
If your BAC8000 in in fact shorted internally, then you have more going on than just some firmware issue. It can probably be repaired, but it's likely more than "connecting to a computer"
Love it !
Do you have any thoughts on the Sotion FW11 motor?
I've seen pictures. It's about the same power as the QS165v2. The windings are not bound up at all as far as I've seen.
Thanks for your feedback. There is a lot of interest in that motor for razors because it seems to be the fastest direct fit motor available (according to the guy importing them)..
It takes the top spot from the EC4P , and I think you had a big part in bursting the bubble on that one. If you are able to get your hands on one, I’m sure many people would be curious to hear your assessment.
I think it’s only right that after exposing the EC4P you get a crack at the motor destined to replace it…
@@bn2real Yup...seen the group buy for them.
Once you get a load on the motor you might get the stuttering to come back. Hopefully not
Yes...possibly. I'm jsut testing them no load for the group buy.