The Disputed Giant Bird - Washington's Sea Eagle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
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In this video we're looking at Washington's Sea Eagle, the disputed species described by James J. Audubon. Could this species have actually existed? Or was it just an elaborate hoax?
Music:
Beautiful Mystery
Francis Wells
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A lot of species that Audubon drew including the Labrador Duck, the Carolina Parakeet, the Passenger Pigeon, and the Bachmans Warbler and Great Auk have gone extinct. I believe the same is possible for this species of Sea-Eagle that Audubon recorded. Given that others have recorded the bird and that there were at one time museum specimens it is most likely an extinct species that once lived on the American Frontier.
I believe they still exist. I saw one heck of a gigantic Eagle in Virginia when I was a teenager in the 1980s *and was told it was impossible* except I know what I saw.
And I have personally seen adult eagles chasing their immature offspring *In Minnesota* which means both were Northern Bald Eagles. The eagle (just one) I saw in the 1980s was *much* larger.
Is it normal for MULTIPLE museums to lose specimens of a bird not known to science?
sadly yes thats why we only have one dried head and foot of the dodo today
Museums have warehouses full of collections. The Smithsonian has thousands or more artifacts that haven't even been fully catalogued dating back decades or more.
@@fallows4life with the dodo though, wasn't it because a lot of museums didn't consider them valuable until after they had become extinct? Even then, we do know what happened to that dried head and foot, it was recorded, etc. The bigger a specimen is, the harder it is to understand how it could have just been lost, let alone multiple specimens. An eagle with a ten foot wingspan would be on par with the largest flying birds that exist today, and if it was rare then would be considered very valuable to museums. I suppose it is possible every specimen was lost somehow (fire, decay) and the incidence of loss not recorded, but if so it would be an incredible case of consecutive bad luck.
@@Ryodraco true, the story is hard to believe becouse it isn't very believeble but for a cryptid it's pretty believeble
The all "lost" giant skeletons found all over America in the 18th & 19th centuries.
It's absolutely possible amd probable.
Museums engage in collusion all the time when needed to.
I live in Henderson County, Ky. I have on 2 occasions seen what i thought was a golden eagle, quite rare for our area, on the ground during deer season. I assumed they were feeding on remains of deer. When they took flight, they were much, mych bigger than i anticipated. They were easily 1.5x the size of bald eagles. I have had a nesting pair of bald eagles on my property for several years and am quite familiar with their size and shape. That was why i assumed them to be golden eagles. If golden eagles are smaller than bald, then i do not know what it is that I saw. It was no vulture species, it was definitely an eagle, but truly huge in scale. I am glad this video happened to pop up on my suggestion list. I believe Audubon was correct.
I used to see Golden Eagles next to Bald Eagles all the time while lake fishing in Idaho. They are huge... much bigger than Bald Eagles.
Not all Bald Eagles are cast from the same mold. Like they say, Northern Bald Eagles are larger than other Bald Eagles. That they like to eat fish is copacetic to my way of thinking, we've seen them above the Channel Islands in SoCal since the 80's & 90's.
As long as it's gonna take, the little cliff dwelling raptor, is a very personal experience.... With that being said, Audience's love the very arcain ...
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Stay safe and Be Blessed with success in your passion and devotion to our Blessed Savior God... Amen 🙏🙌
@@TheDevice9 Golden Eagles are smaller than Bald Eagles, even if just barely. What are you even on about?
I'd like to point out that we very nearly lost another large bird of prey - the California Condor - quite recently, so for such a bird to have gone extinct shortly after being discovered is possible.
That being said, it'd be great to get a hand on those "lost" museum specimens.
Not the best comparison, as the condors were well known to people for centuries, even as they declined.
True, and a large factor in the Condor’s near-extinction was the extinction of many giant prey animals in America (many of which were before settlers arrived). If there was a giant eagle that also relied on the larger prey, I wouldn’t doubt that it’d already be declining by the time America was colonized.
When did the Condor become a bird of prey? Wasn't it just basically a big vulture?
@@Ryodraco a better example is the Stellar’s Sea Cow, it only went extinct like 27 years after it was discovered by Europeans
Aren't stellar sea cows extinct never knew they could actually fly 🙃
This case has all typical characteristics of the cryptid-to-known-animal pipeline:
a scientist who spent a LOT of time outdoors, so he saw some animals the museum-dwelling, indoor types couldn´t see, the species was known to the locals and appeared in the folklore (thunderbird) and even checks the box of being held in a ZOO during the time when its existence was denied, like the pygmy hippo or bonobo. The only thing which is missing to finish the pipeline is a stuffed specimen in some museum´s collection.
But if other scientists accused Audabon or whatever is his name spelled of being a liar in multiple cases when he was right, it would not surprise me if some museum-dwelling type scientist threw away the stuffed specimen to "prove" this bird didn´t exist. It would not be the first nor the last case when a scientist sabotaged someone else´s work.
Agreed. Another classic case of this is the rare misspelled Audubon. Oh, wait. There's one now!
It is remarkable how much research goes into a video like this! I love this channel and its dedication to education.
It's quite weird that so many museums had it in collection yet no bird is know to exist today. Like how are you able to lost the biggest eagle of America? That really feels strange to me
those in europe could lose them from war. ww1/www2. and america 1's budget reasons if staff thought it was a gold eagle they might have sold it or trashed it.
To @luky1346
When Sir Flinders Petrie was excavating the tomb of Djer, the third Pharaoh of the First Dynasty of Egypt, he found a forearm with a bracelet on it that had been secreted away by a tomb robber who never returned to claim it. It was the only remains of a Pharaoh that early ever found. He delivered it to the Boulaq Museum, now the Egyptian Museum. The curator there took the bracelet off and discarded the arm in the trash. When Petrie heard about this having happened, he quipped, "A museum can be a very dangerous place."
@@stupidminotaur9735
Just look what happened to Emperor Caligula's pleasure boats.
let's say that the museum collection back then were quite crappy, they didn't had the knowledge or technique we have, most specimens are in bad state of conservation, or were lost (fire, lost in endless collection in storage etc.)
It's like aliens, bigfoot, religion & other fairy tales.
His drawing looks almost exactly like a wedge tailed eagle from Australia. Right color, similar crest above the eye, and the largest verified specimen killed had a wingspan of 9'4"... In a time where shipping was all done by sailboat and nobody would bat an eye if you took a large bird of prey from the nest and raised it as a pet, it stands to reason that there could have been a ship with a captain sailing around with an eagle as a pet. It would explain why the bird was seen by the sea a few times and then never again.
I thought the same. Pity it didn't show it's chest.
Genuinely I watched a show (I think it was called secrets of the museum or something like that) that brought up the Washington eagle and as I did research of my own on it, I also noticed that they were nearly identical. I personally agree that I think their is some connection, though how I don’t know
It really doesn’t resemble the wedge tailed any more than any other species of eagle
@@bosniagaming2708 yeah. Except for the size description, color description and picture.
I live on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland Australia, we have three Wedge Tailed Eagles living nearby, they are huge, they circle over a hill about a Kilometer away. You only appreciate how big they are when they drop down behind the hill, at more than a Kilometer away. There must be more big birds like these elsewhere, protect them at all costs.
"The only way to properly observe the birds is to come back...AND SHOOT THEM ALL" jfc that escalated, thankfully those birds moved
This is what cops say when staking out a drug house 😂
Ikr?
I was like “Sweet Jesus! Talk about going from 0-100 real quick.”
I don't know if I believe the eagle actually existed - the alternative explanations are very plausible to me.
But I've also worked in a museum collection where, when I began, the curator lamented that the collection once contained a few valuable specimens of now-extinct species, which had gone missing at some point. Could I keep an eye open for them?
My task was to enter the collection into a digital database, and I quickly learned what had happened to the missing specimens. A number of the original labels had gone missing or become difficult or impossible to read over time, and at some point in the past few decades, the collection had been re-catalogued by someone who apparently had never met a bird they couldn't mis-identify, and they didn't bother to compare to the original catalog either. I found all of the "missing" specimens. And that was at a pretty small collection and we hadn't suffered any theft or fires or wars or any other disasters over the years.
All of which is to say... I wouldn't be shocked if one of the purported specimens is rediscovered someday.
ah id have thought a number of them to go missing over the fact they were quite valuable(someone steals them) . but yes a number of lost/not known specimens have been found in museums over the years.... including 2/3 lost/unknown relativities of the Dodo,
If you google "largest gecko species" it shows the New Caledonian Giant Gecko _Rhacodactylus Leachianus..._ However, that *_is not_* the largest known gecko species‼️
The largest known gecko species is actually the now extinct _Gigarcanum Delcourti_ (formerly _Hoplodactylus Delcourti)_ 💯
Do you know *HOW* it was discovered⁉️ 🤔
Coincidentaly around the *same time* Washington's Sea Eagle was supposedly discovered; in the early to mid 1800's (unknown exactly but approx. 1830-50) a French biologist collected *a single gecko specimen* which he taxidermied and sent back to a French Natural History Museum... And there it sat _unknown to science_ *for over 100 years* until a museum curator found the specimen collecting dust in the back of storage in 1986! It was an unknown gecko about *twice the size* of the world's _current largest_ gecko! Yet there was no date, genus/species, collection location, or any of the important information with it‼️
It had gone extinct in the 100+ years since that specimen was collected and now *nobody* knew where it was from or what genus it belonged to! DNA was successfully sequenced in 2023 to find out it is related to the Leachianus gecko and from New Caledonia. It was then renamed to Gigarcanum (as it was previously hypothesized to have come from New Zealand)
TL;DR: We had the *worlds largest gecko* sitting *in a museum collection* and *completely unknown to science* for well *over 100 years* until someone randomly discovered it and realized how important it was‼️
Not only that but the species was *already extinct* by the time the only specimen was found.. AKA if that *single* hundred year old taxidermy was _never found..._ then *we would never have known/have proof that it ever existed* 💯👏
No. They didn't mislabel the largest eagle that anyone has ever seen.
@@nunliski he already explained in the video how they could easy do it by saying its a junivile bald eagle or that other eagle........ also when you taxidermy animals and eagles they shrink in size so it might just be mistaken as a smaller bald eagle
Not just saying it but this is one of if not the best nature channels. Love it!
That's very kind of you. Thanks!
I wish you didnt use AI art in your videos though. Is that painting of the two eagles swooping the crew AI? @@all.about.nature1987
I remember old people talking about having seen birds Eagles of this size here in WV. They claimed the wingspan was around ten feet. they would put up the smaller animals and keep the children inside if one was seen. And if they could they shoot them. I always thought they may have been seeing a golden Eagle. Now I'm not so sure.
Maybe it lived primarily off of salmon. This was going extinct when he found the last few. Salmon aren't exactly jumping out of the water in the East
Ahh, Washington's Sea Eagle. Haven't thought about that bird in years. Very interesting if it is/was a real bird.
Important note. There was a study where they put up kites that were shaped like eagles. The kites had different wing spans and were put up at different heights and distances. Random people were asked to give an estimate of how big the kites were. The results proved that any size estimate from any distance is completely unreliable. 10ft was called 20ft and 25ft was called 10ft. Remember that fact when you hear all the stories about someone seeing a huge bird. Experts are biased and only giving you the size based on known facts about well studied birds.
casual observer as opposed to an experienced observer who has worked in the field study of birds is not the same thing and your average person might get confused but an experienced observer will know so be real
also time of the day and if something scares you near the night i think the Jersey devil is some kind of bird and most people see it at night and miss judge the size and depending on the size of the bird and at night you hear it flapping its wings you get more scared . once i saw a vulture fly in between some branches it looked bigger flying in the Branches then it did when it was flying in the open sky
Yet 3 people measured the specimen
Absolutely true. In fact you don't even need an eagle shaped kite to prove it. Just ask the average person to guess the wingspan of that seagull flying right over there.
Important note: Some people were within just a couple feet of nailing the correct measurement.
I'd like to know if any native American culture has a name/description of Washington's bird. If it were the largest of all American eagles, the original inhabitants of the land would've known about it.
The thunderbird. I briefly mention it at the end. But to delve into that topic was going to be another 30 minutes of video time.
@@all.about.nature1987it's okay we got time. Would love another 30 minute video
@all.about.nature4630 I know I wouldn't mind a 30 minute video about the Thunderbird.
Yes we have clear descriptions of lots of extirpated species (or extant species that have been extirpated from some regions) but personally, it seems like people really, really, really, don't want to hear about it. I'm a biologist and tribal member and we have, for example, lots of stories (as do all the tribes in the region) about jaguars in the southeast, I'm doing research to document this, but it's hard. We also have stories of an eagle bigger than golden eagle but looked like a gold eagle, amongst tons of other relevant stuff... but i feel like it'll take me 20 years to try to make any scientific headway on any one species.
I thought that jaguars having been present in the southeast was an accepted fact.
I see to recall that their home range once spanned from Southern California, to Florida. (In addition to their current range, of course).
A few years ago, didnt they track and get trail cam footage of jaguars in Arizona and Texas?
I'm from MS. What tribe are you from? I had some Choctaw buddies growing up.
It sounds like something on the edge of extinction. If its breeding was easily disrupted and it's size made it a tempting target the animal could have been pushed out inadvertently.
I think it's a pretty clear case of misidentification. It was most likely a juvenile Stellar's Sea Cow.
You mean Stellar’s sea eagle? They are the largest living eagle who live on the northeast Asian pacific coast, but sometimes vagrants make their way into North America, there was one that crossed over back in 2020 and since then has flown all over the continent from Alaska down to Texas and then up to Newfoundland. However despite their huge size they don’t come close to having 10ft wing spans, they typically are 7ft but larger females can get up to 8ft, and claims of 9ft have been made, but never 10ft and certainly a male could never reach that size.
@@greasher926 nah he was right. Sea cow in the sky
@@greasher926 No, you know what's funny, I was making a joke and wasn't even aware there was a bird called Stellar's Sea Eagle! That's hilarious!
As usual with your videos, great work! I love how relaxing and informative your presentation is, and how fair you are to all parties involved.
There is a eagle species called the Steller's Sea Eagle which actually exist and does occur in the Pacific Northwest Coast United States, though rare does occur.
True.
@@GAVACHO5150 • Don't think the Steller's sea eagle is the largest eagle, if anything is the Philippine eagle: which is the rarest eagle, or the harpy eagle.
@@franktank4360I looked in Wikipedia, and it claims there have been verified sightings of stellers sea eagle in both Massachusetts and Vermont, in 2000s
Sorry it was Maine , not Vermont. But also reported in nova Scotia and Texas
There is a dark morph of Stellars sea eagle that looks almost identical to the painting. Im wondering if it was a split species - Bald/Stellar hybrid.
Adult golden eagles in Scotland look just like Audubon's painting. I once encountered an immature golden eagle (with a white tail) in a forest in Scotland, when I was walking along a fire break. It was about to eat a dead rabbit, but I disturbed it and it flew off, low over my head. It probably had a wingspan of about 7 feet but in the moment seemed absolutely massive (like the 10 feet of Audubon's eagle). I've seen them two other times in the Scottish Highlands, both times while on my own walking quietly along a remote road wearing drab clothing. They glided silently overhead scanning the ground for prey (very much like Audubon's first encounter). They make their nests on cliffs (called eyries), exactly like Audubon and his colleagues saw. They are elusive and rarely seen in Scotland, by the locals or the hordes of tourists. Golden eagles do eat fish. Occam's Razor can be summarized as "the simplest explanation is usually the best one", in this case that Audubon and company saw something like a golden eagle.
I have seen dark colored giant eagles on two occasions, and took a photo on one of those occasions. The first sighting was an individual, standing on the ground next to a four wire, barbed wire fence. The fence is around four feet high, and this bird was taller than the fence. The second occasion I saw a pair. I see bald eagles all the time, including juveniles. This pair of giant dark eagles was in a tree a short distance from a red tailed hawk, and an adult bald eagles, perched a few yards away. These birds were roughly three times the height of the hawk and double the height of the bald eagle, which was admittedly a small specimen but still an adult eagle. I was a little afraid to get closer to these birds but I got as close as I could, and after one of the two flew I quickly snapped a blurry photo with my old, early version camera phone. The photo shows a dark bird without feathers on its legs, so it is not a a golden eagle. It has a very thick black beak, and a very thick head. When the birds flew, I would estimate the wingspan to be at least 8 feet. I have seen thousands of sandhill cranes and a few whooping cranes, and the wingspan of these birds was roughly the same as whooping cranes.
Sounds like you are describing Golden Eagles
When I lived in DE in my backyard a mailing pair of GE’s landed in a tree in my backyard, and they are truly a big bird of prey. They seemed to be bigger than Bald Eagles.
But I’m going to label them as GE’s.
@@bri-manhunter2654 No, I know golden eagles as well. Goldens have feathers all the way down their legs. These eagles did not. They were not salt and pepper like a juvenile bald eagle either, they were solid black or very dark brown. And HUGE.
Respectfully u didn’t see a WSE 😂
@@noahshields507 I see. You (respectfully) know this because you were there, standing beside me, when I saw these birds. You snuck up on them, climbed the tree, injected a syringe, and ran a DNA analysis and matched it exactly to either a bald eagle or golden eagle. You took a tape measure and ran it along their backs from top of the head to tail tip and confirmed that they were indeed regular sized eagles and that the adult bald eagle in the adjacent tree was a rare midget bald eagle, and the adjacent red-tailed hawk one more tree over was also a rare midget version of red-tailed hawk. You were there and measured the barbed wire fence that one of these birds was standing next to and verified that the fence was actually not four feet tall and that my tape measure was one of those rare defective tape measures that occasionally show up in hardware stores after having shrunken. You can post your laughing emojis (respectfully, of course) because you have seen the photo I took of one of the birds, and carefully inspected it and verified that it was just a case of mistaken identity, because you are an expert ornithologist, and of course, you were also present by my side when I sighted these birds. I used to be like you , I used to laugh at people who claimed to see mountain lions in my area, until I saw one myself, then another and another and then my neighbor ended up with a series of photos on a trail cam, and then another neighbor shot one so we had a carcass as proof. Yup, I used to be an arrogant jerk as well. Don't fret, its possible that you may grow out of it. Saying all this respectfully of course.
@@user-dq6mq6kz5r You aren't the only one. I have been seeing one large black/brown eagle here in between Chesterville and Mt. Vernon Maine. I first noticed it about the time that people were photographing the lost Stellar Eagle from Russia that had shown up along the Maine coast a couple years back but this thing seems too be all black/brown except the legs which were like a dark grey/dark brown/dark tan color. This bird appears to have an 8ft+ wingspan and seems to hunt over the local sandpits and rivers then flies back toward Mt. Vernon where I know there are rock ledges just off the old Adams Rd. Always seems to come from that direction. I usually see it in spring and fall. Wings are proportionally wider than a Bald Eagle. It seems to circle a little more slowly and in wide overlapping creeping circles. Similar to a bald eagle but slower.
I totally expected a video about the eagles of Washington state
Same here lol
Especially near the sea 😂
Fascinating! I'd never heard of this until now. Meticulously researched and presented - thank you! My feeling is that this bird did not exist but there is always that shred of doubt. Giant eagles have existed - the extinct Haast Eagle of New Zealand is the most iconic example - but even if this bird had already been extremely rare by Audobon's time the colossal lack of evidence from elsewhere does seem to suggest the bird was a product of Audobon's ego and not one of evolution.
I think I agree with you, Peter. Thanks for the comment!
A typical case of revisionist history out of a personal contempt for Audubon.
Thankfully history is cataloged by people who don't allow their personal beliefs, opinions and bias come in between them and the history being recorded.
So this guy, who relied on notoriety and exciting the public's imagination to get funding for his work, just so happened to find the biggest, rarest version of the most famous type of bird, that nobody else can confirm having seen before or since? Yeah, not buying it. I'd say the most generous interpretation is that he knowingly manufactured a discovery to generate money so he could do the actual truthful but not exciting field science.
The historical Forrest Galante
@@kokotomenance344 forrest galant doesnt get criticised like at all for the shit he is doing
I used to think this was one of the more plausible cryptids before I found out he was known to hoax stuff
did you not watch the video?
@@stupidminotaur9735
'Tis obvious that he didn't.
Nit-picky note, the Golden Eagle you show at 11:27 looks like a darker intermediate morph Red-tailed Hawk. The parts that stuck out to me are the streaking pattern on the chest, facial coloring pattern where the dark is restricted to the malar, and a hint of rufous at the tail. Also the bird looks substantially smaller than the Bald Eagle, when the Golden Eagle should be roughly the same size.
That aside, was very interesting to learn something new about the early days of birding in the colonial era. Was told in a very fluid manner and kept me interested the entire time, keep up the awesome work!
Golden Eagle is typically larger than most Bald Eagles
Yup that's a hawk. I was just going to type that! :D Tiny pointy hooked beak, white feathers in front of the eye. That's not an eagle.
I'm in the camp of Most Likely Existed but human error also exists. Some of the sightings, like the sightings of pairs flying, could've been misidentified. And also it's incredibly easy for museums to lose specimens and documents; paper and ink age, natural and human disasters happen, things get mismatched in moving, etc. The Cairo museum even "lost" part of Tutankhamun's treasure because it was in a mislabeled box.
Doubt this man at your own peril. He said it, I believe it. He described and painted 2500 plus bird species and we assume he faked this one? Not likely.
i love that drawing @13:20. that things giving us the "draw me like one of your french eagles" look. i didnt realize birds could even have bedroom eyes but there they are. amazing work.
@all.about.nature4630
Hi. Love your work. Biologist here. The bird pictured as the golden eagle is not a golden eagle. Golden have feathers down to their feet. I discussed with a falconer and it looks to be a red tailed hawk
Thank you
Thanks. I actually thought it was a red tailed hawk, but sometimes the best I can do is trust that the way a video is labeled in the stock videos I use is accurate. And it was labeled as a golden eagle.
Should have trusted my gut.
@@all.about.nature1987
No worries
To be fair I primarily keep exotics and breed rare reptiles and arthropods . So even I struggle with bird ID
Plus half North American raptors are “brown birb with yellow feet’s”
My name is Art Vandelay. I'm a marine biologist. I once rescued a whale from suffocating by removing a golf ball out of its blowhole.
Were the seas angry that day, my friend?
@@brianwebber6996_ROADHUNTER yes. Like an old man returning soup in a deli
About 20 years ago my wife my grandson and myself were fishing the crooked Creek not too far from soldotna Alaska we were listening to a talk show on the radio at camp the guest was warden from the fish and game and they had a contest what is the largest wingspan, people called in with their guesses for over 10 minutes, nobody guessed right the game warden said they found a stellar Sea eagle on Kodiak Island wingspan over 15 ft
Amazing video. Honestly on this case I tend to believe the species once existed but it is now exinct. It would be amazing if they manage to find one of those museum specimens sooner or later.
Stellar video, I was happy to hear/see thunderbird mentioned! On the final scene before the patron list there is a typo. "What are you thoughts" is present, when you intended your.
Again, great video.
I also hoped for thunderbird 😄
I'm not too that part yet but I think the Washingtons eagle is the thunder bird so I can't wait!
The video was of a big vulture.
@@Fishfanplayz no because there were huge vultures thousands of years till the European people came that lived which were called thunderbird.
I was this guy for Halloween last year. Nowhere near my best costume, but still cool
Also I personally think the Washington sea eagle was the native Americans inspiration for the thunder bird. If I saw a gigantic eagle it's not to far fetched to think it was some sort of god due to it's size and possible rarity
(If you're wondering how I found out about this bird, I inherited my great aunt (who I never met) bird book and it had some of the other birds he "made up".)
Edit: it being hidden somewhere in a random museum cabinet isn't that farfetch'd actually. In a book I read recently "The last of its kind the search for the great auk and the discovery of extinction" by Gísli Pálsson it mentions that some cabinet labeled owls in a non orthological part of the museum storage had some great auks in it, so anything is possible
Excellent pokemon reference!
It sounds like the place to go to find world class incompetency is a museum.
And the last place one should take a prized specimen.
A Golden eagle was on the road I was travelling on in the tanker rig one spring ,there was trees on either side so it had to fly ahead of the truck to gain altitude to fly away. I got a real good look as I pulled up behind it as it watched me over its shoulder while gaining height. It only lasted a few seconds and he was up and gone but I swear his wingspan was as wide as the truck if not more…huge. Eastern slopes of the Rockies in northern Alberta
When i was 12 years old, 18 years ago, i was down by a small creek in issaquah Washington. I sat down on the shore to eat chips before heading back. All of a sudden there was this giant what I thought was a bald eagle that's wings were completely outstretched soaring completely silent all I could hear the made me turn my head to even see it it was so fast was the flicker flicker of the sounds of his feathers touching the occasional leaf on the trees that made me turn my head to look. It was the biggest thing I've ever seen with its wings outstretched both tips of the Wings barely could clear the tree line on both sides of the Greek which was easily 10/11 ft I guess it was about that big if you know Issaquah Washington you can probably vouch for there's a lot of creeks and streams that are that size and it was so quick and it was so silent that I was completely in shock seeing it is it was going really fast and it was just soaring between these trees just like it was going somewhere like it had intention he had a purpose and it was on a mission. This is the first that I've actually ever seen any information or heard anybody say anything about anything like that and I seen the state Washington on here and I'm quite intrigued by this correlation. To put it into perspective its wings outstretched we're like the nose to tail end of a horse. And I use that as a relevant comparison because I used to train horses and that's something for me to visually refer to
There are still two other species of Sea Eagles out there. It could have been you saw Stellars or a White Tailed Sea Eagle. Occasionally these two birds are spotted in the United States.
Perhaps some recent and historical thunderbird sightings could be this bird.
I had never heard of this bird till now. Interesting video
Unfortunately it is certainly common for something to become lost in a museum
I recall there were several different species of eagle found in the La Brea tar pit deposits; maybe one of them was this guy?
Woodward's eagle might fit. I don't know official estimates for wingspan, but it was 43.4 inches long, ie 3 feet 7 inches, the same size as reported by Audubon for the Washington eagle.
A guy recently went on Joe Rogan show and showed off a unknown blue feather from a large bird (12 inches) 10k years old from a dig site in North America. so large somewhat rare bird wouldnt be that hard to believe. Recently they just discovered a mini terror bird that lived till 5k years ago in argentai that stood 3.3feet. Haart's eagle the last pair shot were in the 1800's. And theres reports of Moa surviving also till the 1880's.
1. moa theres reports of Natives hunting them in 1770's, then theres a british officer who reported seeing them in 1801 With 2 others and a women reported seeing them in 1880's. in a very remote southren flords pretty much a separate island connected to the south island thats to cold for the normal hunting tech of using bush fire. also new radiotion techiges showed that mountain moa survived for an extra 100 years later than og thought till 1500-1600
2. harrts eagle a hunter who wasnt boasting reported he got attacked by a pair of large eagle in a remote/hidden valley by a pair in 1860s? he just put it in his journal no fame no fortunes.
3. terror birds lived both in SA & NA.
Haart's Eagle? Argentai? Go to school
@@thehoundofthegamingvilles2012There is a better way to teach people if you know they are wrong. Explain the error without being an azz.
@@chesterfieldthe3rd929 ok fine chesferdieldfherrd920
@@chesterfieldthe3rd929 and who said the Haast Eagle was shot in 1800s? And what reports of Moas surviving the 1860s?
@@thehoundofthegamingvilles2012 ok
I saw a golden eagle in Alaska many years ago and i swear its wingspan was 20 feet long at least.
Was flying above a creek about 100 feet up. Watched it for about 5 solid minutes before it flew away.
Audubon does sound like a fool. These eagles seem ridiculously skittish. One of his first instints was to shoot it, then appearently he DID shoot one and then showed only ONE person before taking no more proof, no pictures, no taxidermied body, nothing but stories.
No photos in 1820!
@@DrivermanO Cameras have been around since 1815 the earliest surviving photograph is actually from 1826.
@@LawfullSpook Yea but silver plate cameras of the period were not transportable at all. Not to mention how it was still a new thing and how expensive, time consuming, etc it would be. Photography was a totally different ball game in the early 19th century.
1. shooting is/was the primary way to collection spemiases till atleast the 1960's. 2. it sounded like his friend was in the backwoods did/couldnt get it taxidemied... 3. and later it sounds llike at least 8 were.
@@LawfullSpook look at a photo from 1826, think again.
I was working in Ketikan Alaska at the paper mill there and saw a what i called an Alaska Sea Eagle, which was the largest eagle I have ever seen. Born in Colo, Moved to B.C. and worked in paper and pulp mills all up and down the west coast. I've seen hundreds of eagles as I have lived by Mt Baker Washington since 69. The ravens in Alaska are the size of Bald eagles in the lower 48, The eagles in Alaska are up past your waist with upper beaks the size of a man fist easily. This Sea Eagle I saw put them to shame. It was a good 1/3 again the size of any other eagle I saw . The tail is the give-away. The tail feathers didn't stick out past the back edge of the wings when it flew. I'll never forget the scene..!!! When it landed it dwarfed all the other eagles there. You could see it was a whole different kind of eagle. That was back in 80's.
Forgive me if I missed something, but one thing sticks out to me about this case and that's in regards to what had happened to the specimen
Audubon shot and showed to his friend? Why would he have needed to purchase one from the museum if he already had one? I feel like this is a glaring hole in his story. I just can't believe he'd discard of the carcass.
With so many different folks having had this bird in their collections as well as Audubon having shot one, SOMEBODY would have surely photographed it as proof. It's way too bizarre that every single specimen was never photographed OR preserved. There is no way a professional like Audubon misidentified anything, so the only answer is it was all made up.
this was the early 1800's. cameras weren't commercially viable until the mid 1800's, and even then they took a long time to set up and take a photo.
@@dippst Exacly, why a photograph would have been made of a museum specimen...
This was definitely a rollercoaster for the mind. I started out simply not believing it, but the carefully constructed story drew me in.
It seemed credible almost. Bigger things flew in history and that's a fact. The accusations and the subsequent debunking of most accusations were also nicely done, taking us further on that rollercoaster ride of belief/disbelief.
There is still one theory untouched and that is that it was a case of island gigantism. "Well, where's the island?" Being chained to specific breeding grounds represents an island.
I believe if it is true and not a hoax that it could be a Teratornis. Teratornitid birds are though now to be predatory instead of the old way to portrait it in the past making them like giant vultures. It is the only 3+ meters wingspan predatory bird known from North America in the recent times, it could also be behind the thunder bird legend.
Except what Audobon saw were described as fish hunters, genuine fish eagles, etc. While he saw them as a distinct species, they were still recognizably fish eagles rather than the very distinct group that were the teratorns (which were not even in the same family as fish eagles).
The woodward's eagle found in the La Brea tar pits fits the description of the Washington eagle, atleast in size. So I think the animal surviving to the 1800s is plausible, especially as it was found alongside bald eagles and golden eagles.
It should be noted that woodward's eagle was first discovered in 1911.
Gotdaum i love these type of video. Lore vedios are awsome
It should also be noted that in the middle of the 20th century, the bald eagle was almost extinct. Fewer than 500 nesting pairs were known to exist in the early 1960s compared to more than 71,000 today. A bird that was even more sensitive to human encroachment and pollution might easily have gone extinct before we came to our senses.
The parent eagles moved their chicks to another location because they knew men were coming to kill them? Uh huh. What a load of crap.💩
Yeah, it's highly unlikely they moved to avoid humans. If they moved, it's because either the chicks fledged and started properly flying in that short of a time, or something happened to the chicks and the parents moved on to do other eagle stuff.
Or, you know... they just didn't exist in the first place.
Yea how tf would they even do that?😂 I’ve never heard of any eagle doing anything like that
It seems possible that these giant eagles Audubon saw were from a small population of Steller's sea eagle, a bird that today lives only in Eastern Asia. A few individuals have been reported in Alaska. A person who saw one there about 25 years ago, said it looked as big as a Piper Cub, which was quite an exaggeration.
I dunno anything about birds or wingspan. Whats long or what's short but I have been driving trucks for 32 years now. I always saw vultures on the side of the road eating freshly killed deer or whatever animal got hit by vehicles and I was always amazed how those birds knew cars would not cross that yellow line. One day I was behind another truck that I was drafting (sort of anyway) as he passes a flock of birds on the side of the road. Now mind you a trailer is 13'6 feet high and it can create a lot of wind gust to a bird on the side of the road.
One of the birds got caught up in the gust so as a natural reaction it spread its wings to keep itself from rolling in the wind. As it spread its wings it was probably at a 60 degree angle compared to the trucks 90 degree angle and I could literally see its extended flight feathers touching the ground. I looked up at the other end of the bird and that wing extended to the TOP of the trailer which would make that wingspan at least 13"6. I've never seen another bird with that kind of wingspan again. If it helps, I believe I was in the mountains (or hills) of Pennsylvania or Ohio area. I don't know if thats normal but like I said, never seen that again.
As much as I doubt that Washington's Eagle existed in the first place, part of me hopes it did, and one of these days some intern is going to stumble on the taxidermied 4-5 foot wing/remains in a dusty, mothballed box and blow this wide open.
Is that nest still there on that rocky ledge? Has any one checked for egg shell remains?
Right? The guy was so interested and these birds were so skittish they ran away after seeing ONE group of humans like 100 feet away? These birds must be constantly moving their nest every other day if the spot one POTENTIAL predator barely in eyesight of the nest...
Then the guy is so interested in it he just dosnt investigate further at the jest site because he dosnt see them 3 days later??
I question old timey researchers that they don't follow through on discoveries and also with first inclination of seeing one is "Imma gonna shoot it" and then showing it to only ONE person... just seems like stupid practices.
@@Dan55888 Rock climbers must come across old nests on ledges, all the time, and never pay any attention to the egg shells in them.
By this point, well over 100 years later, it would be long gone.
Think of it this way: how many eggshells from other birds do you see still lying around after spring is over? How about after summer? After that autumn? Even if you might see, one lying on the ground all summer, eventually it will decay or something will eat the shell.
Any eggs or shells that are preserved over long periods of time are sheltered in some way from the elements or are deliberately preserved by museums etc. Eggs have been found preserved in caves, peat bogs, and midden heaps. Not only do eggshells in open nests have no shelter, but they also tend to fall out of the nest where they are more easily weathered and accessed by other creatures. And we're talking about, ostensibly, a nest that's unsheltered aside from parent birds, on top of a cliff.
@@brassbucklesthere can still be trace environmental dna. If someone is able to find that specific ledge, it’s possible trace amounts of DNA can still exist?
Could you make another similar vídeo But on ANOTHER animal?: this time about the chilihueque? And the feugian dog?
I saw a gigantic dark eagle on a fence post by the road in the Alvord Desert of Oregon. We stopped to look and the dust caught up to us and made the bird fly away. The wingspan was wider than the pickup almost the length of the truck. And it was black or brown or dark grey all over, beak and claws included. And it was definitely like an eagle, not a condor or vulture, except the beak seemed thicker, more like a parrot, except still hooked like an eagle. I have always thought about it in terms of the Thunderbird legend, but this video makes me wonder differently. Maybe the Washington's Eagle and the Thunderbird legend are connected?
I have seen similar bird here in Washington State in treat massive Eagle ,with thick beak ,for Size it was massive as Bald Eagle was harassed it out tree it was resting in .Now if seen Crows harass a fully grown bald eagle .Replace the Bald eagle with Crow and Bald eagle with Massive Unknown eagle in spot of bald .
I saw one in 1995 in Spokane flying over the 5 mile mesa. I was at Salk middle school playing baseball and the game stopped and we all stared at the small plane sized eagle circling over us.
@@GarathWolfe @vadenk4433 Except for my friends that I was in the truck with, I've never met anyone else who has seen one. Thanks for commenting, that's really cool. A wingspan like that, they could probably range a long, long way. If they fish, like Audubon said, you would expect they could span the World. But I'm betting they don't like the cold, otherwise you'd hear reports from Europe, for sure. Or maybe the wingspan is for gliding not endurance. Or maybe for altitude and climbing, too. Idk. Always have wondered. This is a new angle I didn't know about.
I saw one once when I was little in Pennsylvania. It soared over me and I thought it was going to get me cause I was so small 😂
The 'plagiarized painting' thing seems like the weakest bit of 'evidence' to me - he'd seen this animal only briefly and the only one he got a close look at was dead. He didn't know enough about it to do a fancy painting, so he just did 'standard dramatic eagle pose'.
That is true. But I do think there have been other cases of him being accused of copying other's work.
How unprofessional are museums to just lose a unique rare species? Why get it at all if you are not going to show off/take pride in having what seems to be a massively rare species?
If a fresh corpse of a dinosaur was found and made it's way to a museum wouod they just stick it in a basement and forget about it and LOSE the specimin??? Just seems stupid
It upsets me greatly how the first thought is "I have to kill one" Alas we can not fix the faults of our past, we must strive for a better future.
That how it works, a specimen is needed to describe a species. It would be very different if he was just a rando trying to shoot a big bird
Right?
"Oh! A rare species.... let's kill it!"
And then the idiot only shows ONE person and no one else any evidence, what a waste of time, did the bird really need to die that badly to basically prove it to no one.
That was foolish and just makes me think he is lying even more since appearently he likes to boast. Back up your boasting better Autubon, especially if you decide to KILL something you pretend to be in awe of to feed your own ego.
@@efrainoctavio3506 Understanding an extinct animal is worthless in my opinion.
I completely agree with you! Those of Audobon's time are often excused by being a product of their time but I have heard of remarkably recent examples of "scientists" killing critically endangered species in order to get their hands on a specimen when there are other techniques such as 3-D imaging that could be used. It's so sad that 3D imaging is used to get accurate images of archaeological sites without damaging them but it's apparently OK to kill the most precious treasures on the planet if it's "in the name of science"...
Not even just one, but the entire family. I get it; it's how we've had to catalogue things in the past. Shelves and shelves worth of animal lives taken for study and records. It's really sad and upsetting, but I do understand that that's all they could do. We're somewhat better now, but taking live specimens is still something we do today.
I saw Massive Eagle of some kind here in Washington I believe was a Stellers Sea eagle .This beast was massive As Bald eagle was harassing it in a tree .When you see Crow harassing a Bald eagle .Now place Bald in with Crow and Massive Stellar in place of Bald .what stood out form Massive bird was it thick Massive beak thick and wide .
Why would he destroy his reputation for a single bird? specimens going missing because they were linked to Autobarn?
The fact that it nested on the ground ment that when white man got there and so to the rats would have ment it was rarer and rarer. The native Americans may heve even eaten it as it was easier to catch them on the ground.
My response would depend on the animals actually having existed, which I'm not convinced they did. However...
It sounds like it nested on cliffs, which wouldn't be quite as accessible as just "on the ground." Plus, if they were like most birds of prey, they would've been fiercely defending their nests. Rats or other introduced animals eating the eggs is, however, very plausible.
Native Americans would've likely had reverence for this bird if it existed, so while they may have hunted adults or collected their feathers for certain ceremonies or important headdresses, I'm not sure they would have collected eggs of this species. If they did, they likely would've made sure to leave at least one egg in the nest. I don't buy into the idea that Native Americans hunted it to extinction.
Presuming it was a real native species, around this time feathers were extremely popular accessories, particularly for women's clothing and hats. Yes, even eagle feathers. Add to that that any non-native who knew of the species knew it was rare and would want their own specimen or one for their local museum, and any non-native who didn't know about it at the time would have hunted it to prove what a huge bird it was and to pre-emptively protect livestock such as chickens, lambs, and calves. So between introduced species like rats and trigger-happy humans actively hunting it, it wouldn't have lasted long after people realized it existed.
The bird may or may not exist, but saying the drawing was plagerized is ridiculous. They are both pictures of eagles, there's only so many ways to pose an eagle and the pose isnt even identical
There are many ways to pose an eagle. It could have been in flight, it could have been presented hunting or eating prey, landing, etc. It's unimaginative to say otherwise. If Audubon indeed shot at least one eagle, then he had a specimen to work from, but this particular artwork doesn't look as realistic or natural as his usual style. Compare his other birds of prey to photos of the animal and, while they're not perfect representations, they look more realistic. Not only that, but his art of most birds is far more dynamic. Using that particular pose is odd for Audubon's art style and an odd choice overall.
That being said, while he pretty clearly did copy the pose, and while I'm unconvinced the bird is real because I'm familiar enough with birds of prey to know it doesn't look as realistic as his other portrayed birds, a copied pose alone doesn't equate plagiarism. The overall structure of Audubon's bird is different enough that it's distinct.
@@brassbuckles Indeed, and do consider that Eagle pictures were a pretty popular thing, being a heraldic animal and all, so whatever natural pose Audubon had chosen, the probability that it would not be very original are close to certainty.
Given how compulsive Audubon was at shooting rare birds as trophies, it is no wonder that the rare bird was hunted to extinction by other trophy hunters.
In terms of size, it sound very similar to the White Tailed Sea Eagle, native to Europe and the south western coast of Greenland.
He probably saw a Steller's Sea eagle. They occasionally go to places outside of their normal range, and are often seen, usually alone in the US and Canada, even as far away as New England, or Texas. Also, the white-tailed sea eagle is occasionally seen in the US and its wingspan rivals that of the Steller's Sea eagle. The Steller's is arguably the largest eagle, if you take into account the average of all of the traits often used to judge size, such as height, weight, wingspan, etc. While they are number one only in weight, they are arguably top 3 in every category and get little fanfare as fish eaters, and a small population. Every ranking list you look at will have some variety as to the order for their ranking. Frankly, I would love to see these birds start living all of the US and Canadian country sides, where the land and water can support them. During the months that the lakes of Canda are unthawed, they would have ample food. However, similarly to the bald eagle, they would have to migrate to a warmer climate or the sea, to find food.
Stellers also have the largest beaks. By far too. Imo they are the largest eagles in the world. The only eagle that just looks massive all by itself with no context or frame of reference to go by. Bulky looking birds for sure.
I even found an article from 2007 AD about a natural wild juvenile Steller's/Bald hybrid on Vancouver Island (BC) recorded in 2004 AD, mentioning a Steller's-bald couple living together somewhere in a large state of the USA (No Texans, I said LARGE),... North America is not so so far from North East Asia if you are a Sea Eagle, after all,.
There are so many animals that we've lost over the years that it's hard to say if it's real or not. You would think if it was a lie that one of the people involved would of said something to someone admitting it's a hoax.
In his book, A New Voyage to Carolina. John Lawson described three Different Eagles, Bald Eagle, Golden Eagle and a Grey Eagle. I wondered what the Grey Eagle was?
If he spoke the English of 19th century and early 20th century American ornithologists, the Gray Sea Eagle is a possibilty, which would be the White-tailed Sea Eagle, the counterpart to the Bald Eagle from Western Eurasia (including the UK) and Greenland. The young ones are hard to tell apart.
I clicked the video thinking this was referring to a bird in Washington state. We saw a giant bird circling an alpine lake that is pretty difficult to access it appeared to be black against the afternoon light, and was by far the biggest bird any of us had ever seen. We joked that it was pterodactyl but came to the conclusion it was a giant raven or a golden eagle. We have bald eagles at our lake cabin and I can confirm that there are some huge ones, but if they are that big they are not brown juveniles. It made a sound similar to a raven so that’s what we assumed it was, but we were in a remote area with plentiful lakes and rocky cliffs and this was at least the size of a large eagle. This video has me questioning what we saw that day.
The Natives of Eastern Canada have always talked of the Thunder Bird. Bigger than other Eagles. This is a good description of that bird.
I have seen this bird 2 times, one in St.Lawrence county NY and the other on the St. Lawrence river. He only way I was able to describe it was a thunder-bird.
Early Fall 1986, I encountered a giant brown colored eagle on a gravel road in western DeKalb County, IL. The body stood at least 4ft high (its head could have peered in my driver'sside window). It's the largest eagle I've ever seen. Easily 2X the size of a Bald Eagle. I obsrrved it for tens of minutes... it obsrrved me. Then I backed up and drove in reverse. It seemed I was interrupting it from feeding on something in the 8ft high cornfields. It would switch its attention from me to something in the cornfield.
I dont think that the painting is plagerised for sure. The pose is just a pose an eagke would sit in. The Rock it sitz on is in direkt relation to his obervation that it nests on cliffs.
Amazing. Absolutely amazing kob on this video. Idk how you do it. But you have an amazing talent for researching topics.
You're extremely kind! Thanks!
I was sitting on my porch one night in Memphis Tenn, about 4 am. It was dark but there was a full moon. Some movement caught my attention and I looked up in the treetop across the street and a giant bird was just landing on a big branch.
It was silhouetted by the moon light and I was in shock by how big this bird was. I don't know anything about birds really, so I can't say what species it was or whatever, but if I had to guess I should say that bird had a wingspan of 8 feet. Now I know people are going to say I'm full of crap, I don't blame them. I wouldn't believe it either. It just amazed me.
The bird sat there for a while and then bounced up and flew away. I don't know if 8feet is big and it's just my guess.
it could have be a immature steller's sea eagle. they have been know to venture into eastern north america
Yes, but a male with 10ft wingspan doesn’t fit the description, even females don’t get that large, usually topping out around 8ft. But still I think it could be a possibility, especially since there are dark brown variants.
@@greasher926 yea but he could just be exaggerating the size, there’s no reason to just take that at face value
Also around that time Passenger Pigeon and Bison were going extinct. Food sources a big bird would need. Plus we almost lost other Bird of Prey species due to a government backed bounty hunt.
I wrote this 1/2 way through. You mention it towards the end:
It's size brings to mind the native's legends of the Thunder Bird. I wonder if that was his inspiration?
I have seen a bird that cast a shadow across the forest floor, it covered the sun as I watched it fly over me. This was bigger than anything I've ever seen.
One other scout in the area claims he once, on the same mountain, a feather that was wider than his hand and longer than his forearm.
I believe. ❤
Fascinating video! Thanks! As for the bird itself, I will only observe that Audubon was never a man to let mere facts get in the way of a good story. 🙂
I saw one a couple of years ago up close sitting in a tree that was at least 4 feet tall. Wing span easily over 5 feet wide. Largest flying bird I've ever seen.
I've always thought the drawing looked like an immature Steller's Sea Eagle.
I love how excited this dude got and described himself as a lover of nature, and his first thought after seeing a special bird is "I must shoot it!".
The past was... surely something.
The "California Condor" currently living, has a 9.5 foot wingspan. This is bird or a relative is probably what Audobon hd seen. Natives Americans called them "Thunderbirds".
Back in the mid-70s, me and the buddy of mine was out in the woods behind his house near wixom Michigan. As we were exploring the woods a very large bird flew over and we determined that the wingspan on this bird had been 12 ft across. Now we had never seen a bird like that and it kind of freaked us out because it was only 15 or 20 ft above us. But now after seeing this video I can't help but wonder if it's not the same species of bird
Seems like we saw the death of a species occur
7:45 is that an ai generated image......
And?
Yes and they still exist today. Biggest Sea Eagle is native to East Asia and one can easily stray from their native habitat and possibly circumnavigate the whole globe.
You missed an argument on the plagiarism issue. The body posture and view angle of both the Rees and the Audubon picture simply look absolutely generic. I'm sure you could find a dozen piictures of eagles both european and american older than Rees that look very much the same. I see no reason to charge Audubon with copying Rees. Following a generic tradition is not plagiarism, and you gave a good argument why Audubon would have gone with a generic view in this case. Also, I support the comments that museums can always be expected to lose specimens or simply forget that they have them. I worked in one, and when you barely have the staff to change broken light bulbs, then misplaced and uncatalogued stuff piles up. Which then can easily get lost. I vote for the animal being real.
The generic poses of the depicted birds are also done for a purpose: to compare the species with other, similar species and see the differences easier.
Yeah completely true
The 10 foot Eagle is/was real. The native population called them "Thunderbird's".
FWIW, I've seen photos of a Golden that seemed significantly larger than normal, from a game cam set at a deer carcass and hoping to photograph condors. The deer's chest girth came up to the bird's knees. It looked larger than coyotes that came to the same carcass, enough that a coyote could have been a prey option for the bird.
I saw a huge raptor shaped bird on the border of Pa and Ohio that I thought was a golf bag at first. It was on the ground and enormous. Saw it in the same area two weeks later in the air and same thing, biggest bird I’ve ever seen. All dark colored, both sightings in the very early morning
hybridization for sure. A side effect of this is gigantism like in Ligers.
Do birds of prey crossbreed in the wild? I've never even thought to check!
@@mistingwolf birds are hybridize very easy and it's usually just behavior that keeps this from happening. Birds of prey have very little genetic diversity. Could easily been a bald eagle and osprey or Golden eagle which caused gigantism.It prob didn't produce 100% viable offspring as to.why they are not more common.
@@domturiace670 except a pair of them was seen nesting. How likely would it be that one hybrid bird would court another of the same hybrid? Not to mention it would mean that after being seen a fair number of times over decades, somehow these hybridization events would cease for the two hundred or so years that followed.
@@Ryodraco the courting could have easily been a normal pure specimen and one hybrid parent.The hybrid could have been the parent that decided the odd place to nest due to mixed signals on fact it was a hybrid .
@@domturiace670 but both parents were observed and said to look similar.
The biggest mystery about this whole controversy is the alleged missing museum specimens. One disappearing is believable, museum items becoming lost or misplaced has occurred many times around the world. There's nothing unusual about that, but, several specimens of the same _very_ rare species? I don't think so. The odds weigh heavily against it.
The thereabouts of my hometown are described in this video and Audubon is still a respected name around here. I'm not especially familiar with this sea eagle or its controversy. Seen some big birds but 10ft wingspan is pushing it. Maybe the occasional bald eagle. This is 200 years out though.
Thanks for a very interesting video. Regards, John. (UK).
John James Audubon what an amazing artist no matter what his critics may say and you did put forth a good argument in his defense
im yet to find a better channel on this platform!
What is the music that plays through this video?