Mobo's, GPU's, CPU's, PSU's, Cases...it's ALL becoming the same marketing drivel of "Bigger number with most XXXs = higher price"; and then they have to lie and/or obfuscate performance numbers to justify that price. Not to mention the extra headaches with buggy BIOS and H/W compatibility that seems to get more and more common
This needs to be part of a "demystifying x platform" playlist. It becomes difficult to understand what's what when you come back years later down the line to rebuild your pc... and this helps clarify a lot for return builders.
I saw someone reviewed all 870 and 870e mobos and i think only asrock mobos support pcie 5.0 1x16 without lane sharing meaning even if all m.2 slots are occupied and if they got m.2 pcie 5.0, the slot will not step down. the rest of brands will split to 2x8 so gotta take note of this when buying one
That's why I got the Asrock x670e pro rs. It doesn't share the lanes and has a lot of m.2 and ssd connections. I just simply love it. Yes it doesn't have rgb or fancy things on it, but it's a very good quality motherboard that gets the job done with no BS or errors.
@@Pi3XXAX i did buy the ASUS ROG Crosshair X670E Hero 4x full usable m2 no cutting down and i have 6 SATA that i can use and a 1x PCIE for stuff like sound cards
I got the b650 edge wifi from MSI, since the main m.2 slot is 5.0 and it has 2 more 4.0 m.2s AND it has 6 SATA ports and no splitting of x16 slot. Was the best package for me. Too many manufacturers leaving lanes out/disappropriating or using them for useless stuff. With zen4 and 5 boards you really need to read the specs carefully before purchasing.
For gaming, only buy a board if it’s got a 50 or higher. If it has 50 don’t buy the cheapest board, make sure it has a big heat sink. An extra 30usd gets you a much better board 50 board. If it’s higher than 50 they are all good. 600 or 800 bugger all differences just never buy the 840 or 620 Forget about PCIE 5.0 doesn’t matter.
So, the biggest difference is the '8' for the '6'. And that USB 4.0 is mandatory for premium boards. Those were premium boards before, too, so it already was a hard sell to offer boards withouat USB 4.0
No one has ever, nor will ever need USB4 on desktop and the implementation on X870(E) is absolute shite on top of that. And even for those who wanted USB4 for some unfathomable reason, there were better implementations of it on X670E already, as well as the ability to just add it with a Thunderbolt card.
I think I learned more about system architecture this refresh than in the past. Haven't been looking at hardware since I built my 3770k, so it's been a minute for sure.
24 usable CPU lanes for X870(E) is a partial lie because four of those lanes are reserved for USB4. Partial because you can technically use those four lanes but only externally.
They are not even reserved for USB4, its just a loot easier to take them from the CPU then from the Chipset since the USB4 controller is located right next to the CPU, and it would be a pain in the ass to wire it up to the Chipset instead.
The X870 and B840 "naming class" bumps are so scummy. All this deceptive marketing is *really* lowering my opinion of AMD. Maybe I should start reconsidering Intel products.
Companies are nicest to the customer when they're fighting each other for business. With Intel burning down its own brand with CPU failures, AMD's getting cocky. I'm not optimistic for the pricing of the upcoming 9800x3d.
I watched the other mobo video by steve and eventually settled on a B650E PG Riptide Wifi. Trying to go over the specs feels like sorting fantasy magic ingredients.
Absolutely incredible video. Thank you for the information, I've saved all the graphs here for personal reference. Shoutout to whoever made the graphs lol.
I mean they could introduce much more lanes in their chipset, but to what avail? Most users won't use them. And then you only have a PCIe4x4 between CPU and chipset.
When you need more Pcie Lanes buy an Threadripper and TRX50 Plattform. The Amount of Lanes are fine for the most people on Mainstream Plattforms. And you dont find a higher or better Lane Amount on the Competition Motherboards included 1851 MBs next Time.
@@johnscaramis2515 on the top chipset the argument is not that users will not use them, the argument is users don't have them to use. Threadripper is dead, we need consumer level boards with lots of IO.
@@TheTaurus104 threadripper is a dead platform, we need more pcie lanes for high speed io, 300G network cards are right around the corner and in order to use a lot of those cards you need accelerator cards to obtain the actual speeds.
As an ITX user, is there any functional difference between the ASUS ROG STRIX X670e-i and the X870i? Both have the same number of rear USB 3.x ports, 2 USB 4 ports, 2.5Gb Lan, use the FPS-II card, stacked M.2 drives (1 PCIe 5.0, 1 PCIe 4.0), and a variation of the Strix Hive device, but obviously use different chipsets. There seems to be quite a bit of conjecture about whether or not ITX can even take advantage of the additional PCIe lanes offered by X670e, or whether the reduced number of promontory chipsets onboard could actually help control VRM/board temps better.
I kept my last build pretty simple. 7700x (budget reasons), B650 (although I wasn't really happy with the MSI PRO B650M-A WIFI board I got at 1st, recommended here, but updates have brought it around and its good now) and was able to score a Radeon RX 7900 GRE at msrp. I haven't had any issues, temps are good, and it does all the things I need it to do very well. probably the only upgrade I would like is the 7800x3d but things are good, and I can wait until it's cheaper.
All I can say is that hardware as a whole is quite a mess imo. No chance I’ll buy now. Waiting for things to stabilise marketing and product wise but I fear it’s just going to get worse. Which will force me to look at budget options to not burn much money on little bang for buck. Either way. I see it as exercises in futility. Hope it improves
The market is mature and most of the effort is going into segmentation rather than improvement. Oh sure, they'll call both 'innovation' but it's surprisingly hard to get a quality board without LED vomit, without the wifi controller I don't want or need, and yet with the PciE5 lanes well allocated....
"Won't buy now" ... but you fear it will get worse.. which means you either want to buy in a more convoluted market or never upgrade. Or you're holding out hope that companies will segment the market less? In any case, the logic is a bit dodgy.
@@Scxegood question. Lemme exemplify… I don’t need to buy but want to buy. I’m ok not buying for a while. So I’m ok waiting. Yes. I’d like a decent Ryzen 9000 series but the bang for buck isn’t there. And. What’s the purpose of the 8000 range again? Is the 7000 what I should be looking at? What about the direction PCI lanes vs lanes offered via the chipset. This is all quite messy. What RAM speed is a good rule of thumb… does it depend on everything that there is no rule of thumb? Do I skip this and just buy a HP laptop and hope it’ll serve my needs for years or will it be need to be replaced within 18 months? This is what I kind of mean
The thing I find weird is that only A620 & B650 ITX motherboards seems to have standard 3x Audio Jacks rear I/O to connect 5.1 speakers. All of the higher tier ones lack those. I think the only "higher tier" one that actually has 3x at the rear in Asus B650E, but it is disqualified since it uses 2x rear ones and 1x front panel audio to connect 5.1 audio... which is an insanely weird design choice...
This helped quite a bit. Thank you! B650E is my go to. If I can stretch the budget a bit, then maybe I will get a motherboard with an X870 chipset, but it doesn't really offer anything over B650E that would justify any price increase.
I basically knew all those things but the sheer amount of data in this video still made my head spin. I'd never be able to remember that if I hadn't already known.
Honestly, the dual chipset thing with x670 and x870E is just stupid. You just gain more "connectors" but not more bandwidth. And most of the boards, even the expensive ones aren't even close to using most of a single chipset...
Chipsets are more or less just glorified PCIe switches. It's not expected to fully saturate the uplink with a single device all the time. Similar to how in networking you hook up every device to 1 GbE on a 48 port switch despite only having a 1 GbE uplink.
Yea, AsRock f up the naming there; they definitely wanted to replace the original, awful steel legend b650e, that also has pcie 5.0 x16 slot, with this one
@@seylaw because Asrock was feeling generous with the gamers and wanted to make them happy? But I am sure it's going to split and share the lanes if you occupie all the ssd, m.2 and pcie slots, and that will drop the speed. Asrock X670E Pro Rs is still the goat 🐐 🙌
Because the speed of the CPU lanes has absolutely nothing to do with the chipset, that's what Tim completely fails to mention. The speeds listed in the video are only the "minimum" required speeds, but manufacturers can totally design boards with faster PCIe or M.2 connections.
Thanks for the video. Definitely reinforces keeping my X670E motherboard and not upgrading to the new boards. Just to have USB 4.0, I can buy an add on board for that. Great review
I skipped over the B650 because of the lack of PCI 5.0 x16 slots. The B650E seemed like the better buy for the long haul as it had PCI 5.0 support across the board. Very useful video!!
Proposal: 1. CPU can multiplex bandwidth for lanes (committed rate) or motherboard includes non-blocking PCIE switch: so lower PCIE generation = more lanes. 2. All slots are physical x16 (or higher) and wired into the CPU. 3. Active lane allocation (between slots & bifurcation) and PCIE generation usage is controlled in the BIOS 4. Chipsets are installed in PCIE slots
I waited 18 months, but i finally managed to buy an 670e motherboard for a good price (after being overpriced all that time). It peakesd at a ludicrous 364 last year, i grabbed it a month ago for 196. Now the wait for Black Friday for CPU sales on the 7000 series.
Tech companies and changing naming schemes constantly and almost only for the worse. Name a more iconic duo. Have we had any releases to current gen parts from the RGB companies that haven't done this (excluding Arc because it is first gen, nothing to ruin)?
Thank goodness AM4 was so good, I have no need to do any upgrades anytime soon after going to an 5700X3D. Probably ride it out until AM6 hits so can wait until all this blows over.
Thank you so much for this!!! I am right now looking to upgrade from a b450 + 5600x to something with more connectivity speed and memory for some vm work and games. The direct comparison is what I need to make sense of the madding options available.
My Asus TUF Gaming B650 has a PCIe 5.0 Primary M.2 slot as do others as well. I think you should fix that on your chart as Optional PCIe 5.0. My B650 is essentially a B850.
I miss having a bunch of PCIe expansion slots during the old days... Even an AGP port with 6 PCI slots (non-Express slots, mind you). I for one am going with 25GBit networking (QSFP) that connects from my gaming/workstation desktop to my server for fast transfer rates.
Happy with Gigabyte X670E Aorus master that Steve also uses for testing :) Can recommend (quite a bit cheaper now but it seems it's going to be end of life (fewer shops have it in stock)).
I was planning to buy a new motherboard, this table really helped me. I think x870 is the most sensible offering this line up has. Not sure why anyone would even want a x870E mbd
B650E was ahead of its time. AMD has upgraded it to X870 so prices will increase. Once B650E stock dries out, we will be left with upsold renamed 600 series boards.
Video starts @ 14:50. Everything is just specification reporting. Good information to have documented somewhere, but probably would have been better off as an educational piece to bookmark and reference via other videos. Edit: Also as a rebuttal to the point of B850 V B840 - If a typical consumer cares about I/O they are likely searching for a mobo by filtering based on the I/O configuration, and not necessarily what name is on the Chipset. I recommend that approach to users because it removes all the marketing from the mess. "Do you need USB4? Do you have many USB devices that run @ 10Gbps or faster? How many M.2 disks would you want to use?" This navigates the spiderweb of Chipsets, and nested-SKUs within each of them.
Motherboards have become way too convoluted at this point. Not only with the different chipsets for each generation, even each motherboard vendor has upwards of 10 different SKUs for each chipset (looking at you, Asus). Just a mess.
Great video. Would also be nice to see the different memory support on 600- and 800-series motherboards. If a third gen AM5 cpu is launched in the future, will e.g. 600-series motherboards have support for a potential more «mature» and higher speed DDR5 memory. I guess this depends on the motherboard manufacturer and not necessarily on the chipset?
Most people slap 2 dims in the MB, 1 stick of NVME, 1 graphics card and they are good to go (yes fans, cooler, etc). Most do not need more than this basic setup so having anything better than a basic B840 really is not required. Yes go for the B650/ B850 for extra NVME and marginally better sound but in reality as a percentage of users very few use 3 NVME and need more than 1 to be PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 and / or require PCIe 5.0, fewer then overclock the cpu (expo available on the B840). Generally we buy better because we can not because we need to.
Thanks for the much needed clarification. I am still in limbo if B650 or X870 is the right choice for a new config when B650 is more expensive than the X870.
Pretty sure we'll see the 600 series, and maybe excluding the A620, to be slowly phased out in favor of the refreshes. Look, it's already obvious that DIY desktop side isn't that much profitable for them currently so they'll try to squeeze out as much as possible before enterprise/data center side upward trend dies down.
Anyway, AMD/Intel... please make your next platforms to have more PCIe lanes. Ryzen | intel 9s are already workstation capable chips except for quad-channel and more pcie lanes for more pcie storage.
Good that finally USB4 is starting to show. Really Type-C in general needs to take off, everyone slack, like peripheral brands and such. Maybe we can move form Type-A and SATA ports.
Rocking a $110 AsRock A620M Pro RS Wifi and I think i'll survive the AM5 era without issues. VRM is good for a 12 core chip, DDR5 6800MT/s is stable, BIOS allows you to tweak CPU voltage offset and enable PBO. No PCIe 5.0 but comes with a couple of 4.0 and a single 3.0 M.2 slot. I also get a BIOS flashback button and debug LEDs. What more can one want?
the only thing this video missed out is some data about what you miss or not miss out by going x16 4,0 and thoughts about future. same with the storage. from my point of view any b650 or b850 with decent vrm will make a good pairing for anyone that just wants a good gaming pc and does not want to overspend. example for am4 be hte msi b-550 a pro which cost almost nothing and was able to support any am4 cpu without downsides. still a little more talk about if it is worth it to go for 5,0 on the gpu and looking into the future even though that would only be gessing would have been appreciated. so far going for the latest gpu lane speed was never worth the extra money but i would have gladly taken your take on that
Yeah, it‘s a mess. Not only do we have 9 different chipsets, but also different CPU series for gaming and non-gaming. Differentiation only works to a certain degree.
Hearing you read off so many letter number combo. I am remined of the snow days where on the radio guy would read off letter number combo for schools closed or opening 2 hours late due to snow,,,,,
@@HAM_An1mA imo ASRock is goated, other brands are just that… brands Other brands are Starbucks while ASRock is the local coffeeshop with that super cute girl who makes the best coffee in the world
The funny thing is. x670/B650 motherboards are atleast at same price or even higher than x870e/870 boards. Sure x670e might be similar on features with x870e but for older product that has been stuck on shelves for years the price is WAYY too high atm. Maybe black friday will fix that momentarily. But pretty sure prices will still bounce back up and stick high unless retailers are willing to slash the prices.
I grabbed an X670E board that was way cheaper than MSRP thanks to the 800 series coming out, and it looks better than its replacement. It's the obvious choice.
B840 sounds like it is reserved for OEMs. Also, the "X" part indicates that is a top-of-the-line chipset. However, with X870 is the other story, given that it shares characteristics of B650E chipset, save for mandatory TB4.
The thing is, I can understand wanting to simplify the naming scheme because the 600 boards were a confusing mess however this is only adding to the confusion. The only super egregious naming here is the B840, it should have been called the A820.
My guess is that DDR5 memory support quality will improve with X870 / B850. Anyone who heard about "RAM training" & "memory context" will probably know what I mean. AM5 was my first and my last time I bought an ASRock board in my life
The x870 naming scheme is pure scumbaggery. That should be the B850, not pretend to be so close to the top end.
it should b3 b750
@@RN1441 b850e*
Or really X670F and B650F, or along those lines.
That implies someone is trying to cheat you. AMD doesn't care which one you purchase, so no, its not scumbaggery.
Booboo 69 XTC is a more appropriate name, not B850.
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, confuse them with bullshit. - Sun Tzu, Art of War.
lol
@@blakecasimir Dude, let's keep the politics out of a computer motherboard chipset discussion. OK?
@@blakecasimirNot everyrhing needs to be political.
Lol :)))
True af.. 😂
X870E = X670E
X870 = B650E
B850 = B650
B840 = A620??
Yep
Where's 700 series? B750?
@@hiriotapa1983they skipped 700 to match intel 800
@@hiriotapa1983 Same as "Ryzen AI 100 and 200", AMD skipped to "be ahead" of intel (yeah, that's dumb)
What the fuck is B650E??? Why does this even exist???
Motherboards are endlessly confusing, hugely valuable to have HWU here to cut through the marketing obfuscation and provide clarifying information.
Bigly
They forgot to mention that X870(E) boards are just downgraded X670E/B650E boards.
Mobo's, GPU's, CPU's, PSU's, Cases...it's ALL becoming the same marketing drivel of "Bigger number with most XXXs = higher price"; and then they have to lie and/or obfuscate performance numbers to justify that price. Not to mention the extra headaches with buggy BIOS and H/W compatibility that seems to get more and more common
Monitor names: Hold my stand
This needs to be part of a "demystifying x platform" playlist. It becomes difficult to understand what's what when you come back years later down the line to rebuild your pc... and this helps clarify a lot for return builders.
fr I had exactly this
What a confusing mess.
I saw someone reviewed all 870 and 870e mobos and i think only asrock mobos support pcie 5.0 1x16 without lane sharing meaning even if all m.2 slots are occupied and if they got m.2 pcie 5.0, the slot will not step down. the rest of brands will split to 2x8 so gotta take note of this when buying one
I like asrock boards anyways but didn’t know this
True, the only ones worth buying are Taichi and Nova
Who is buying that anyway 😅
That's why I got the Asrock x670e pro rs. It doesn't share the lanes and has a lot of m.2 and ssd connections. I just simply love it. Yes it doesn't have rgb or fancy things on it, but it's a very good quality motherboard that gets the job done with no BS or errors.
I probably read it wrong before, but can use a gpu and a sound card without losing pcie lanes on the 1st slot?
Thank you for the effort in trying to make sense of this mess!
Got it X670E Taichi. Message received loud and clear.
Meanwhile my B450 Tomahawk Max is still going strong 💪
Same w/ B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC 💪
I use a320 with 5800x3d lol
my 50€ B450 MSI board running great with Ryzen 5600 OC'ed to 4.9GHz
Gigabyte B450 Gaming X + 5700X 👍
MSI B350 Tomahawk going for 6-7 years now, first generation Ryzen board that has been home to 1700, 56000x and 5800X3D
I did buy an X670E after seeing how bad the X870E was more usable SATA more usable m2 on the X670E no GPU cut down in lanes
Meanwhile there are Z890 boards with 6xM.2 slots that don't steal gpu lanes
May I which model did you buy? I was recently looking for a new PC, and found out the X870E sucks in lanes
@@nepnep6894 By attaching them to the chipset. Which would also be possible on AMD.
@@Pi3XXAX i did buy the ASUS ROG Crosshair X670E Hero 4x full usable m2 no cutting down and i have 6 SATA that i can use and a 1x PCIE for stuff like sound cards
I got the b650 edge wifi from MSI, since the main m.2 slot is 5.0 and it has 2 more 4.0 m.2s AND it has 6 SATA ports and no splitting of x16 slot. Was the best package for me. Too many manufacturers leaving lanes out/disappropriating or using them for useless stuff. With zen4 and 5 boards you really need to read the specs carefully before purchasing.
This is the best breakdown I've seen that actually goes through the pcie lanes, connectivity, etc. Great video!
To be fair though he was just reading charts/info you can read yourself ;)
@@lolly_bread still isn't broken down as clearly in a mobo manual as what he did.
I am confused more than I was confused before.
For gaming, only buy a board if it’s got a 50 or higher.
If it has 50 don’t buy the cheapest board, make sure it has a big heat sink. An extra 30usd gets you a much better board 50 board.
If it’s higher than 50 they are all good.
600 or 800 bugger all differences just never buy the 840 or 620
Forget about PCIE 5.0 doesn’t matter.
So, the biggest difference is the '8' for the '6'.
And that USB 4.0 is mandatory for premium boards. Those were premium boards before, too, so it already was a hard sell to offer boards withouat USB 4.0
No one has ever, nor will ever need USB4 on desktop and the implementation on X870(E) is absolute shite on top of that.
And even for those who wanted USB4 for some unfathomable reason, there were better implementations of it on X670E already, as well as the ability to just add it with a Thunderbolt card.
I think I learned more about system architecture this refresh than in the past. Haven't been looking at hardware since I built my 3770k, so it's been a minute for sure.
24 usable CPU lanes for X870(E) is a partial lie because four of those lanes are reserved for USB4. Partial because you can technically use those four lanes but only externally.
They are not even reserved for USB4, its just a loot easier to take them from the CPU then from the Chipset since the USB4 controller is located right next to the CPU, and it would be a pain in the ass to wire it up to the Chipset instead.
The X870 and B840 "naming class" bumps are so scummy. All this deceptive marketing is *really* lowering my opinion of AMD. Maybe I should start reconsidering Intel products.
Yeah, i don't understand why they're recurring to such scummy tactics when they have better products atm.
Companies are nicest to the customer when they're fighting each other for business. With Intel burning down its own brand with CPU failures, AMD's getting cocky. I'm not optimistic for the pricing of the upcoming 9800x3d.
If you had a drinking game where you drink every time Tim says X, you'd be blacked out.
I watched the other mobo video by steve and eventually settled on a B650E PG Riptide Wifi. Trying to go over the specs feels like sorting fantasy magic ingredients.
Be interesting to see what mobo you intend to test the 9800 x3d on
Thanks for making this. I just bought a 7800x3d and have been looking at different motherboards to get. You made my decision a little easier.
Absolutely incredible video. Thank you for the information, I've saved all the graphs here for personal reference. Shoutout to whoever made the graphs lol.
It crazy how AMD purposely limited the amount of PCIE lanes even on its top chipset.
I mean they could introduce much more lanes in their chipset, but to what avail? Most users won't use them.
And then you only have a PCIe4x4 between CPU and chipset.
When you need more Pcie Lanes buy an Threadripper and TRX50 Plattform.
The Amount of Lanes are fine for the most people on Mainstream Plattforms.
And you dont find a higher or better Lane Amount on the Competition Motherboards included 1851 MBs next Time.
@@johnscaramis2515 on the top chipset the argument is not that users will not use them, the argument is users don't have them to use. Threadripper is dead, we need consumer level boards with lots of IO.
@@TheTaurus104 threadripper is a dead platform, we need more pcie lanes for high speed io, 300G network cards are right around the corner and in order to use a lot of those cards you need accelerator cards to obtain the actual speeds.
@@marktackman2886 Intel claims up to 48 PCIE lanes on arrow lake
I'm very happy with my Asus ROG Strix X670E-A Gaming Wifi board and 7800X3D as a combo. Just needed a bios update back then to support the X3D cpu.
Thanks Steve. Well done in the edit, its an eyecandy to look at!
As an ITX user, is there any functional difference between the ASUS ROG STRIX X670e-i and the X870i? Both have the same number of rear USB 3.x ports, 2 USB 4 ports, 2.5Gb Lan, use the FPS-II card, stacked M.2 drives (1 PCIe 5.0, 1 PCIe 4.0), and a variation of the Strix Hive device, but obviously use different chipsets. There seems to be quite a bit of conjecture about whether or not ITX can even take advantage of the additional PCIe lanes offered by X670e, or whether the reduced number of promontory chipsets onboard could actually help control VRM/board temps better.
I kept my last build pretty simple. 7700x (budget reasons), B650 (although I wasn't really happy with the MSI PRO B650M-A WIFI board I got at 1st, recommended here, but updates have brought it around and its good now) and was able to score a Radeon RX 7900 GRE at msrp. I haven't had any issues, temps are good, and it does all the things I need it to do very well. probably the only upgrade I would like is the 7800x3d but things are good, and I can wait until it's cheaper.
This is a great video. Thorough yet pithy. I hope you continue with this sort of breakdown for future platform releases. Thanks.
All I can say is that hardware as a whole is quite a mess imo. No chance I’ll buy now. Waiting for things to stabilise marketing and product wise but I fear it’s just going to get worse. Which will force me to look at budget options to not burn much money on little bang for buck. Either way. I see it as exercises in futility. Hope it improves
The market is mature and most of the effort is going into segmentation rather than improvement. Oh sure, they'll call both 'innovation' but it's surprisingly hard to get a quality board without LED vomit, without the wifi controller I don't want or need, and yet with the PciE5 lanes well allocated....
@@RN1441 Some of us like them LED chunks... and you can disable them if it makes you woozy pal.
"Won't buy now" ... but you fear it will get worse.. which means you either want to buy in a more convoluted market or never upgrade. Or you're holding out hope that companies will segment the market less?
In any case, the logic is a bit dodgy.
@@Scxegood question. Lemme exemplify… I don’t need to buy but want to buy. I’m ok not buying for a while. So I’m ok waiting. Yes. I’d like a decent Ryzen 9000 series but the bang for buck isn’t there. And. What’s the purpose of the 8000 range again? Is the 7000 what I should be looking at? What about the direction PCI lanes vs lanes offered via the chipset. This is all quite messy. What RAM speed is a good rule of thumb… does it depend on everything that there is no rule of thumb? Do I skip this and just buy a HP laptop and hope it’ll serve my needs for years or will it be need to be replaced within 18 months?
This is what I kind of mean
i was so overwhelmed by these new mobos and their futures, thank you for this video !
I am upgrading from the nzxt b650e in white to the gigabyte aorus ice x870e and giving my bro the b650e.
The thing I find weird is that only A620 & B650 ITX motherboards seems to have standard 3x Audio Jacks rear I/O to connect 5.1 speakers. All of the higher tier ones lack those. I think the only "higher tier" one that actually has 3x at the rear in Asus B650E, but it is disqualified since it uses 2x rear ones and 1x front panel audio to connect 5.1 audio... which is an insanely weird design choice...
This helped quite a bit. Thank you!
B650E is my go to. If I can stretch the budget a bit, then maybe I will get a motherboard with an X870 chipset, but it doesn't really offer anything over B650E that would justify any price increase.
I basically knew all those things but the sheer amount of data in this video still made my head spin. I'd never be able to remember that if I hadn't already known.
Did you record this in one take?
This video helped me to decide to go for an x670E board for the new 9000 x3D chip I'm gonna get.
Honestly, the dual chipset thing with x670 and x870E is just stupid. You just gain more "connectors" but not more bandwidth. And most of the boards, even the expensive ones aren't even close to using most of a single chipset...
Chipsets are more or less just glorified PCIe switches. It's not expected to fully saturate the uplink with a single device all the time.
Similar to how in networking you hook up every device to 1 GbE on a 48 port switch despite only having a 1 GbE uplink.
Very good and informative summary Tim, thank you. Awesome work!
Now explain to users that the Asrock B650 Steel Legend Wifi while being a non-E board still comes with PCIe 5.0 for the first PCIe slot and NVMe.
Yea, AsRock f up the naming there; they definitely wanted to replace the original, awful steel legend b650e, that also has pcie 5.0 x16 slot, with this one
Goated board, going to pair it with the 9800x3D.
@@seylaw because Asrock was feeling generous with the gamers and wanted to make them happy?
But I am sure it's going to split and share the lanes if you occupie all the ssd, m.2 and pcie slots, and that will drop the speed.
Asrock X670E Pro Rs is still the goat 🐐 🙌
Because the speed of the CPU lanes has absolutely nothing to do with the chipset, that's what Tim completely fails to mention. The speeds listed in the video are only the "minimum" required speeds, but manufacturers can totally design boards with faster PCIe or M.2 connections.
@@dereklang4451Wonder what makes it awful something wrong with that board? Just asking
Thank you so much for cutting through the bullshit and informing us in a simplified manner.
Love this video! This info is so valuable when shopping for a board. 💙
Thanks for the very informative video. Especially the B840 slippery slope... it is good to know.
Thanks for the video. Definitely reinforces keeping my X670E motherboard and not upgrading to the new boards. Just to have USB 4.0, I can buy an add on board for that. Great review
I skipped over the B650 because of the lack of PCI 5.0 x16 slots. The B650E seemed like the better buy for the long haul as it had PCI 5.0 support across the board. Very useful video!!
Thank you for the work that you do to clear up this up, very much appreciated!
Really appreciate this summary of chipsets!
Proposal:
1. CPU can multiplex bandwidth for lanes (committed rate) or motherboard includes non-blocking PCIE switch: so lower PCIE generation = more lanes.
2. All slots are physical x16 (or higher) and wired into the CPU.
3. Active lane allocation (between slots & bifurcation) and PCIE generation usage is controlled in the BIOS
4. Chipsets are installed in PCIE slots
Hey Tim, the chart @ 4:00, the Asrock BB650M-HDV/M.2 should be Asrock B650M-HDV/M.2. 4th from bottom.
Great comparison. Thank you!
Thanks for the work. Just, it lacks one thing, what about performances ?
I waited 18 months, but i finally managed to buy an 670e motherboard for a good price (after being overpriced all that time).
It peakesd at a ludicrous 364 last year, i grabbed it a month ago for 196.
Now the wait for Black Friday for CPU sales on the 7000 series.
Tech companies and changing naming schemes constantly and almost only for the worse. Name a more iconic duo.
Have we had any releases to current gen parts from the RGB companies that haven't done this (excluding Arc because it is first gen, nothing to ruin)?
Thank goodness AM4 was so good, I have no need to do any upgrades anytime soon after going to an 5700X3D. Probably ride it out until AM6 hits so can wait until all this blows over.
I’m happy the new x870 boards came out. I just built my pc and all the good x670 boards prices were bloated more than the new x870
Thank you so much for this!!! I am right now looking to upgrade from a b450 + 5600x to something with more connectivity speed and memory for some vm work and games. The direct comparison is what I need to make sense of the madding options available.
Thanks for the efforts, Tim!
My Asus TUF Gaming B650 has a PCIe 5.0 Primary M.2 slot as do others as well. I think you should fix that on your chart as Optional PCIe 5.0. My B650 is essentially a B850.
I miss having a bunch of PCIe expansion slots during the old days... Even an AGP port with 6 PCI slots (non-Express slots, mind you). I for one am going with 25GBit networking (QSFP) that connects from my gaming/workstation desktop to my server for fast transfer rates.
What a mess, thank you for the hard work of breaking it down!
I would love to sit on on the meetings where these naming schemes are decided
Confused? Good!
Happy with Gigabyte X670E Aorus master that Steve also uses for testing :) Can recommend (quite a bit cheaper now but it seems it's going to be end of life (fewer shops have it in stock)).
I was planning to buy a new motherboard, this table really helped me. I think x870 is the most sensible offering this line up has. Not sure why anyone would even want a x870E mbd
Much needed explanation 👏
B650E was ahead of its time. AMD has upgraded it to X870 so prices will increase. Once B650E stock dries out, we will be left with upsold renamed 600 series boards.
@tim 16:25 E stands for extra spending ... you don't need it, but you will want it.
Video starts @ 14:50. Everything is just specification reporting. Good information to have documented somewhere, but probably would have been better off as an educational piece to bookmark and reference via other videos.
Edit: Also as a rebuttal to the point of B850 V B840 - If a typical consumer cares about I/O they are likely searching for a mobo by filtering based on the I/O configuration, and not necessarily what name is on the Chipset. I recommend that approach to users because it removes all the marketing from the mess. "Do you need USB4? Do you have many USB devices that run @ 10Gbps or faster? How many M.2 disks would you want to use?" This navigates the spiderweb of Chipsets, and nested-SKUs within each of them.
I was literally just debating on upgrading my motherboard! Perfect timing. (get out of my house)
Motherboards have become way too convoluted at this point. Not only with the different chipsets for each generation, even each motherboard vendor has upwards of 10 different SKUs for each chipset (looking at you, Asus). Just a mess.
Thank you for this Tim ! Thank you ...
Thank you for this upload. I am trying to decide between the latest Ryzen or the upcoming intel ultra for a fresh build.
Great video. Would also be nice to see the different memory support on 600- and 800-series motherboards. If a third gen AM5 cpu is launched in the future, will e.g. 600-series motherboards have support for a potential more «mature» and higher speed DDR5 memory. I guess this depends on the motherboard manufacturer and not necessarily on the chipset?
I have a PCIe 5.0 B650E mobo, and it s going to be perfect for the entire life of AM5
Most people slap 2 dims in the MB, 1 stick of NVME, 1 graphics card and they are good to go (yes fans, cooler, etc). Most do not need more than this basic setup so having anything better than a basic B840 really is not required. Yes go for the B650/ B850 for extra NVME and marginally better sound but in reality as a percentage of users very few use 3 NVME and need more than 1 to be PCIe 4.0 or 5.0 and / or require PCIe 5.0, fewer then overclock the cpu (expo available on the B840). Generally we buy better because we can not because we need to.
Thanks for the much needed clarification. I am still in limbo if B650 or X870 is the right choice for a new config when B650 is more expensive than the X870.
Sounds like a way for them to charge midrange prices for entry level hardware, and high end prices for midrange hardware.
that is why i went with a x670e so that i don't confuse myself even more.
Pretty sure we'll see the 600 series, and maybe excluding the A620, to be slowly phased out in favor of the refreshes. Look, it's already obvious that DIY desktop side isn't that much profitable for them currently so they'll try to squeeze out as much as possible before enterprise/data center side upward trend dies down.
Anyway, AMD/Intel... please make your next platforms to have more PCIe lanes. Ryzen | intel 9s are already workstation capable chips except for quad-channel and more pcie lanes for more pcie storage.
Thanks for the video, very useful in this chipset jungle 😉😊
Good that finally USB4 is starting to show. Really Type-C in general needs to take off, everyone slack, like peripheral brands and such. Maybe we can move form Type-A and SATA ports.
This stuff has been a nightmare since am2 and and 3 gen i7
Always look for the features you need on any motherboard
Thank u for this....feck all info was available online
Rocking a $110 AsRock A620M Pro RS Wifi and I think i'll survive the AM5 era without issues. VRM is good for a 12 core chip, DDR5 6800MT/s is stable, BIOS allows you to tweak CPU voltage offset and enable PBO. No PCIe 5.0 but comes with a couple of 4.0 and a single 3.0 M.2 slot. I also get a BIOS flashback button and debug LEDs. What more can one want?
the only thing this video missed out is some data about what you miss or not miss out by going x16 4,0 and thoughts about future. same with the storage. from my point of view any b650 or b850 with decent vrm will make a good pairing for anyone that just wants a good gaming pc and does not want to overspend. example for am4 be hte msi b-550 a pro which cost almost nothing and was able to support any am4 cpu without downsides. still a little more talk about if it is worth it to go for 5,0 on the gpu and looking into the future even though that would only be gessing would have been appreciated. so far going for the latest gpu lane speed was never worth the extra money but i would have gladly taken your take on that
My z97 motherboard still going strong. I don’t do any rendering or play modern games so see no need to upgrade to newer hardware.
Yeah, it‘s a mess. Not only do we have 9 different chipsets, but also different CPU series for gaming and non-gaming. Differentiation only works to a certain degree.
Looks like the B650E Taichi and Taichi Lite have the best bang for your buck.
Hearing you read off so many letter number combo. I am remined of the snow days where on the radio guy would read off letter number combo for schools closed or opening 2 hours late due to snow,,,,,
I guess I'll just wait for Steve to test them all and tell me what to buy
Did say if youre looking for a B650 or B650E then got for the ASRock X870 Pro RS. If you want a X670 or X670E then got for a ASRock X870E Nova
If you want something in de middle, Asrock B650e Taichi Lite might be an option as well. Has USB4, post code and an external clock generator.
@@HAM_An1mA imo ASRock is goated, other brands are just that… brands
Other brands are Starbucks while ASRock is the local coffeeshop with that super cute girl who makes the best coffee in the world
Who the fuck would ever go for X870(E) over X670E/B650E, you'd literally be downgrading.
Main difference would probably be better memory support. Less likely to have those 3 min boot times or no boot time at all with EXPO memory.
The funny thing is. x670/B650 motherboards are atleast at same price or even higher than x870e/870 boards. Sure x670e might be similar on features with x870e but for older product that has been stuck on shelves for years the price is WAYY too high atm. Maybe black friday will fix that momentarily. But pretty sure prices will still bounce back up and stick high unless retailers are willing to slash the prices.
Im just gonna stick with my B550 board. The Asrock PG mini itx board is still going strong. 💪
Perfect thank you for this, just in time.
I grabbed an X670E board that was way cheaper than MSRP thanks to the 800 series coming out, and it looks better than its replacement. It's the obvious choice.
B840 sounds like it is reserved for OEMs. Also, the "X" part indicates that is a top-of-the-line chipset. However, with X870 is the other story, given that it shares characteristics of B650E chipset, save for mandatory TB4.
I see sales falling even further.
Maybe now that someone known has mentioned it, people might pay attention when others say it.
The thing is, I can understand wanting to simplify the naming scheme because the 600 boards were a confusing mess however this is only adding to the confusion.
The only super egregious naming here is the B840, it should have been called the A820.
My guess is that DDR5 memory support quality will improve with X870 / B850. Anyone who heard about "RAM training" & "memory context" will probably know what I mean. AM5 was my first and my last time I bought an ASRock board in my life