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Im not mountain climber, rock climber, heck I'm not even a hill climber hahaha but what I am is in love with channel. I love how much passion you put into your work and how much compassion you have for not only our environment but also humanity!! I was never into mountain climbers but because of you, you have opened my mind to a whole new world and I'm hooked. Thank you Thom for all that you do!
Wasn't Chris Bonington applying to enter China at the time he said he was convinced that the Chinese expedition was sucessful? Doubt the Chinese would have let him in if he had said anything els.
@@Luriksen If I was going to get to interview the original members of the Chinese team in person, I'd say that too - I'd even claim Mao deserves the Nobel peace prize if it got me thru the door!
I grew up in what was then communist Czechoslovakia. Both Slovak and Czech climbers achieved several bold, technical Himalayan ascents, sometimes marked by adversity and tragedy. Official expedition reports often glossed over difficulties to appease the political elite because the expeditions were state-funded. For example, Fiala and Orolin’s 1971 ascent of Nanga Parbat was doubted by many in the West, including Reinhold Messner, until Fiala showed Messner his mittens, which had been left on the summit a year earlier. My point is that while the political climate can obscure the truth, core elements of the story may still hold, perhaps even in the case of the 1960 Chinese expedition. After all, the crux of the route was already behind them. Investigating and demanding evidence is fair, but we shouldn’t automatically assume a conspiracy.
@baze3SC - thanks so much for your excellent insight and for sharing your thoughts. I'm flummoxed by the doubters who base their negative conclusion due to the presence of overt propaganda in the report.
Polish mountaineers have achieved some fantastic firsts in the Himalayas. Yet despite the fact that they were on the other side of the Iron Curtain, there was never a shadow of a doubt about their achievements. These guys and gals with unpronounceable names made us in the West dream just as much as Messner or Loretan. The same goes for the Soviets, who had a long tradition of talented mountaineers (the Abalakov brothers), sport climbing in the DDR or Czechoslovakia, unlike the Chinese for example.
Dont care what any climber says about terrain or probabilities. There is no proof. There is a reason why Hillary is the first to climb everest in 1953 and not mallory in 1924. I believe mallory was first, but without proof, he wasn’t. Its no different for the 1960 expedition. If an expedition, as large as it was didnt have the wherewithal to make sure they had proof of an extraordinary accomplishment then in the world of scientific exploration it didn’t happen. Thats it. Its up the chinese to prove they were there, and they haven’t. Do i think its possible they made it? Sure, but only if i overlook the fact they had no water or oxygen which really makes me wonder. Whether they did or didn’t is irrelevant without proof. If they don’t have the proof or wont let the scientific community examine it, then its their own fault that people question their claim.
First of all, I agree with what you're saying first and foremost. However, what % of the world's population has even heard of this or more importantly, gives a shit?
@@davem8836 The Chinese are notorious for self-promotion. And they always hide anything that makes them lose status or "face" in the world. That is why they only admit a few thousand COVID deaths even when it is an obvious lie. How many deaths from Covid did the Chinese have? In the end, it doesn't matter. They publish official statistics only for their benefit.
This is not about the equipment at all. There have been many better equipped climbers since then who also didn’t make the summit. They said they lost their cooker so how could they have water? They didn’t have water for climbing. They didn’t have water for something like 20 hours. Also, they are alive. Also there are several different accounts of this climb and they disagree with each other. It has to do with water, weather, experience, and proof. Frostbite is not proof of summiting. Maybe he cried because he knows they didn’t summit and they suffered so much.
Then how do you explain his exact description of the terrain on the summit pyramid? There's only one way to know and that's to have walked it, besides their photographic evidence puts them at the base of the pyramid, there's no real obstacles after that it's just a couple hundred more meters. They made it, there's no way he could have described the terrain without having walked it and their earliest account of the terrain was before anyone else had been there.
It's a communist country. They continue to rewrite history all of the time. Call me skeptical. 20+ years passed before any western interviews. Weren't there pictures of all of the locations by then? I have no doubt that they tried and suffered greatly. Maybe they made it. There is just no proof.
Just a guess but if you had binos, and got within 500 meters, you’d have a pretty good look at the terrain. Shih chan-chun claimed in his article that he climbed the second step in an earlier climb but descended shortly after. Theoretically, that could have been their high point for the whole expedition.
Thanks for the video. I appreciate that this man has tremendous climbing experience and has spoken to the members of this team, but nothing in this video is all that persuasive. That the Chinese team in 1960 reached the base of the third step is undeniable because they took pictures. Talking about that part of the climb is not evidence for what happened above the third step in the nighttime. That a later team found evidence of their climbing the second step means nothing because we already know that they were above the second step based on the pictures. That the guy took off his shoes briefly is interesting but isn't evidence in either direction. That the rocks from near the third step would be similar to rocks from the summit just shows that rocks may not resolve the controversy regarding the 1960 or 1924 climbs. I don't know Everest geology enough to say whether those rocks were absolutely from the summit or absolutely not from the summit. Once he claims that third step rocks and summit rocks would be similar, he's admitting that the evidence just isn't there. That the Chinese climbers from 1960 could describe the summit in 2001 and 2008 again means nothing. By that time, they could have heard multiple stories from people who climbed that route after 1960. They could use the stories from those climbers to supplement their own accounts and cement their own claims. They may have had surveillance images of the summit before their climb. If I were part of a government team trying to organize a propaganda climb, I'd have the military take detailed pictures of the summit area to try to prepare my climbers. If they truly dropped a stove and weren't able to melt snow for water up there, I'm willing to accept that a summit success would be impossible. I'm also willing to accept that maybe they managed the incredible task of summiting without water. I can even accept that the Chinese government created that whole story as a lie to try to make them look even more heroic. Without evidence, I can't believe anything for certain. I'm always skeptical of someone trying to read another person's emotions to determine the truth of the story. Maybe these men were very persuasive to Mr. Hemmleb, but that's not strong evidence. For him to suggest that there's something wrong with people who don't believe his account of reading emotions only further weakens his claims. As I said in a comment on the other video, the climbers would have strong motive to concoct a story of success if they couldn't get above the third step. No one wanted to risk disappointing Mao. He'd had many people killed for much less. I can imagine all of them bivouacking all night at the third step in a state of exhaustion and coming up with the story in order to avoid punishment when they returned. I don't know whether they succeeded. This video is interesting, and I enjoyed watching. I still don't know whether they succeeded.
@@bojandolinar1535 This is a very long way to say you're sitting on the fence about it all. Everything you say is reasonable, but the video was asserting an extremely compelling account of the climb from a man whose experience and integrity as a climber is beyond all doubt and his face to face discussion with the actual members of the climbing team...all these bleatings about it not being evidence miss the point entirely. If you've ever been in doubt about something, especially if someone is being genuine or not, you cannot underestimate the profound insight gained from a face to face experience. And, as I've said in other comments too, you can't "fake" a personal experience of that push to the summit...all the little details Hemmleb recounted from his interview can't be derived from anything but the experience itself, and given the outstanding reputation as a climber himself, it's no great leap of faith to take his word or his conviction in the matter.
Thom, did Jochen record the interviews with the Chinese summit team? Having a complete transcript of that interview or video would make Jochen's comments even stronger. I know the interview with Xu Jing was recorded, but not sure about the others. I will be waiting for your full interview with Jochen
@@EverestMystery Mr. Pollard, thank you for your delving into this topic. May I ask a question of you? When you interview Jochen Hemmleb again for this site, can you ask him about his interviews with Xu Jing? Specifically, that you received a question from a viewer, in regards to Xu Jing coming across the British 1933 High Camp, and possibly mistaking it for a body (Irvine) in a sleeping bag? Did Xu Jing know that the 1933 High Camp existed / was he aware of it? As further search expeditions go into the Central Rongbuk Glacier, it would help to know what Jochen experienced and took away from this encounter. Thank you for your time reading this. -Just a weekend detective from lower New York State.
The boys and I enjoyed the interview but our opinions haven't changed. We were surprised to hear that the rocks lower down were no different than summit rocks. Why then all the hooplah over whether Mallory was carrying summit rocks?
The rocks are very different if you know what to look for. Just look at a photo of the north face and you can see bands of different color. It's called stratigraphy.
@@aeromodeller1 Thanks for replying. My daughter majored in geology before changing her major and getting her degree in engineering. Seems like I remember her talking about that now.
Whether they made it or not, the Chinese propaganda would have been exactly the same. For example a cursory look at Everest photos would allow a good description of the false summit/summit experience. Being on their last legs and being emotional about seeing your exhausted colleagues is simply evidence of those facts, not evidence they summited. Film footage and rocks would do that, but there is neither.
Turns out it is all true after all. The team in 1975 summited again to retrieve the bust of Mao they placed in 1960 that had been steadfastly "surveying" the mountain from it's highest point for the past 15 years. The ladder was brought along to ensure they could relieve him from his dutiful 15 year watch expeditiously.
Fabulous score ... hit the record button ! The follow up with team members spouting off details, his feet ... It's such a great service these videos to them, to their climb unquestioned here, they prepoed well and put themselves on the line for each other ... he turned off O's fir his bros. Beyond words, amoung the great climbs to now recall with admiration, fist-bump & a beer for cheer 🍺
One thing that I think is being overlooked by a lot of people is; China is a very community first type of society and the west, especially the US, leans more towards individualism. And some people can't understand or believe that these guys were sacrificing their oxygen and toes for their bros. It's definitely an admirable climb for sure.
Sadly I think this is very weak from JH. His support is based on “feelings” and we can only assess the climb if we actually talked to the climbers (?). The description of the snowfield and the bypass is nothing special as the Chinese had surveyed the summit with enough detail as to be able to elaborate that description.
That's exactly what Hemmleb did - and being such a veteran of the mountain himself where his experience and calibre of climbing is beyond reproach, then his account of the Chinese climbers experience is too. There's no ulterior motive at all on Hemmleb's part, he has absolutely nothing to gain by announcing his conviction to the Chinese climber's claims other than his integrity as a climber himself, talking in all honest openness with another climber who also has nothing to gain or lose in recounting an expedition that had such a profound effect on him, physically and mentally, that it resonates to this day. To diminish the exceptionally experienced and intuitive background that Hemmleb brought to the table as just "feelings" is insulting to both of these impressive climbers, and you do yourself much disservice in asserting such.
@juan.i5o - yeah, so 'very weak' of JH, all he did was fly to China twice on his own dime to interview the entire summit team and others on the expedition. Further, unless you had been there, how would you know from 12 miles away through a telescope - or from the North Col for that matter - how to navigate to the summit? The 'very weak' conclusion is not JH's.
@@EverestMystery, thanks for taking the time to reply. Kudos to him for his effort, but the reality remains that his interviews reveal nothing substantial, and the takeaway is a "feeling." Maybe he can publish the full transcript, and we can judge for ourselves. Regarding the "snowfield" and other features, these can be seen from the high camps. jakenorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/TD-EV-0814.jpg
@@EverestMystery The 1921, 1922 and 1924 expeditions surveyed the summit from every available location and decided that the ridge route was untenable. Norton deliberately misrepresented what Mallory had done and the Chinese expedition was misled by those accounts. If they had been true mountaineers, they would have done more research and chosen the easier and safer route along the yellow band and up the great couloir as Mallory did.
Isn’t the reason they say they have no summit photos is because it was dark (night)? So I don’t believe that picture from the base of the third step, in broad daylight, is the same day as the supposed summit
I think that the people that can continue to gather more evidence keep moving forward with investigating. We are all on pins and needles to get the facts and that information has to be out there. Keep perseverance with safety for all that go back to Mt Everest. 🥰
They weren't on the summit until they were on the summit!!! If they were, then only the Chinese who stood on the summit, know it truly, until they provide proof for the rest of us. If they weren't, then it stays like it does right now. 🤷♂️ = no
@@TurdFerguson456 The Chinese don't care what an anonymous named TH-cam troll thinks about whether or not they made it, don't expect them to jump up out of their chairs to satisfy you.
The proof is in the stones they brought back, as long as they are analysed with X-ray spectrometry, and the analysis demonstrates in fact it corresponds to the summit, this technique is beyond doubt.
Only if there is clear chain of evidence preservation. Because so many have been on the summit since, and rocks from later ascents could be substituted. The chinese never cheat or lie, do they?
@JavierFlores-tt7tp Unfortunately, even if the rocks were submitted to x-ray spectroscopy/spectrometry and were shown to be rocks from the area of the summit, there will still be doubters who will claim that the rocks were collected by another summit team.
I love it when your cat puts in a guest appearance! It sounds like, at least, the preponderence of evidence indicates that the Chinese team reached the summit in 1960. Yes, I know that a preponderence of evidence is the standard for a civil court and not a criminal court, which requires evidence beyond reasonable doubt. I've heard theories that the Chinese may have found Irvine's body and removed it and the camera that he may have been carrying because the camera might have had pictures of Irvine and Mallory on the summit. As far as I know, these theories lack any evidence to support them. And, at least, in my opinion, though I believe I've heard others express a similar idea, a summiting is only really successful if the climber also makes it off the mountain alive. Peace, and please keep up the great content!
I'm no climber, but I've learned one thing, it's that most deaths occur on the way down... it's possible Mallory and Irvine summited but it is just as likely that the Chinese summited in 1960 and died on the way down....
Do you mean that a different group of climber summited in 1960 and died on the descent? And not the climbers that are accredited as summiting and surviving?
Since joining the channel and the information given by Thom and guests iv slightly changed my mind that Mallory and Irvine didn't make it due to the bad weather they came across to achieve a summit success, we need that dam camera 📸... 🦅⚪✴️
While I’m still not convinced the 1960 team made the summit (their video from base of 3rd step was in broad daylight but somehow it was too dark to take pictures on the summit because they topped out in the middle of the night??), I just wanted to say this was a great interview. Hemmleb is a fantastic and eminently qualified guest, and I respect you both and appreciate you bringing good content like this to the table to paint a fuller picture of the data, context and people of Everest history. I hope we can all agree to disagree respectfully without casting aspersions on peoples’ motives for taking a different stance.
@everestmystery -Nice video -Are Jochen Hemmleb's interview transcripts of videos with the Chinese climbers available? Id love to read everything they said to Jochen and Simonson. However, I want to because it's interesting not because its important or matters that they got to the top -Their struggle with the second step is the real achievement.
Tom this interview is 100% compelling to me. We all know the Chinese regime and how information does not flow sometimes the manner in which we expect. Thank you kindly for bringing this into its correct context
Gentlemen; Thank you both for your work here. Question: Regarding Xu Jing, Jochen interviewed him in 2001, and once later. (2008?) . Is it possible that Xu Jing saw the 1933 high camp instead of of body? I have that same feeling as when you find a lost object, unable to remember when you left it there.
Until they release the "summit" rocks then we have no reason to believe them, regardless if they're distinguishable from the 3rd step, considering the photos we have of them appear far lighter than the rocks found above the 2nd step. We also have no reason to take at face value the opinions of people such as yourself who have a financial interest in the 1960 expedition having made it, considering the ability to film documentary expeditions such as the search for Mallory and Irvine hinge on the Chinese government giving permission. When productions of that scale and value are on the line, it's best to take opinions with a grain of salt.
I wasn't aware the Chinese were ever asked about the rocks and that they were not releasing them. Jochen discusses the rocks at the end. Me having a financial stake in the 1960 Chinese having been successful is, with all due respect, hilarious. The Chinese wouldn't give a rat's arse about my opinion. I wish I were that influential, that I had a financial stake in ANYTHING, let alone whether the Chinese made it or not. Further, that shot of the rocks could be any rocks, not necessarily summit rocks. If I were gifting Mao with rocks, I'd want pretty ones.
@@HanneHvid you are the sort of person noone wants on their team. You would have shoved someone over the edge to be the first to summit. And then wonder why you have no help to descend. There were no ‘footprints ahead of norgay’, dear, because BOTH summited TOGETHER. Now bugger off before your mummy finds out you’ve been on her computer again.
You must be one of those (insert ad hominem attack). To those defending the cult of personally brainwashed and whipped Chinese, please give one example where the Chinese were thought to be lying and or was later discovered they were actually telling the truth. Just one.
“Feelings” rather evidence? How can you call yourself an historian? Also, TP calling those who doubt the 1960 summit claim as claiming the Brits did summit in 1924 is quite insulting and weak. I’m starting to lose respect for both JH and TP.
My intent on this channel is to present a variety of angles and perspectives. One might prefer never to have heard a candid discussion about the extensive research of JH. One merely needs to click to a different video. Another thing adhered to on this channel is that I ask viewers to show respect and kindness when commenting, regardless of how their opinions may differ.
It is obvious. IF the chinese had the proof that they did it they would let unpartial people examine the proof. But they don't and they will not. AND addressing the first question on how ppl can be so sure that Mallory did it but not the chinese. The people that are beliving that the chinese did it are sure that Mallory didn't make it even if they were more prepared and better climbers. AND the rocks are NOT the same!!
Maybe it’s the romantic in me, but I believe Mallory reached the summit AND I believe the Chinese did as well but actually lived to tell the tale. I’m not Eurocentric, though.
And it’s quite odd that you call Irvine a better climber than the Chinese? 22-year-old Sandy Irvine was a great athlete but had very little mountaineering experience. Mallory, of course, was a great climber.
Part of the problem with believing that the Chinese made it is THAT they survived. To survive for the amount of time that they claim, at those altitudes, without water and without oxygen would truly be a miracle. And only one of the 4 even got frostbite if I recall. If mallory and Irving had never been seen by Odele and they showed up two days after their attempt, claimed that they summit at 4am and spent 48 hours near and above 8500, I wouldn’t believe that either. Mallory and Irving had a much better chance of making it up (and dying on the decent), than the Chinese had of doing what they claim they did.
Without stating that the reached the summit or they did not reached it, I think (after listening carefully to your guest) that the likelihood that the Chinese team did reached the summit is on their favor.
I have doubted this summit for long time and it will probably remain for me a matter of probability. However, it breaks my heart when I think I personaly deny them their achievements if they realy made it to the top. How would I feel about that myself? Thus, f*ck this, just for peace of my own mind I say yes, I accept they made it and if they didn't, well, they have to live with that, not me...
These were the Chinese, so they had to summit, or say they did. Without proof, there should not exist an official record ... but that's China and the North Side of Everest belongs to China, so.... Any climber hoping to enter China/Tibet is most likely going to go with the side most favorable to China for future North side accessibility reasons. Also, becoming emotional about it just means that it was an overwhelming experience, regardless of how high they got. All I'm saying is that you can't deny one (Mallory & Irvine) and not the other (Chinese '60s team). The Chinese completely ignored the fact that Mallory & Irvine were spotted at the Third Step and quite possibly and even likely summitted.
IF, the Chinese did get to the top and back, they would have carefully documented each step and made absolutely sure there was no doubt of their success. They would not rely on a "preponderance of evidence" or a possibility of success. And, they would not be shy about their success. If they made it, which I seriously doubt, there would be no end of their proclamations of success, and Mao would have treated them as national heroes. They would have been lionized as the Greatest Chinese Mountain Climbers of ALL TIME!!!!!! There would be statues of them standing on top of Everest, there would be movies and books. But, there is none of that. So, NO!!! They failed and they are too ashamed to admit it.
I don't believe the Chinese made it. I think Jochen's information about the high-altitude training is very important, but I would like to see more detailed information about their experience. I don't think the frost-bitten feet prove anything nor does their detailed description of the summit which they would have climbed in total darkness. The pitons don't prove much and I don't believe the Chinese claim that they found the rope on the 2nd step 15 years later. Is it displayed in ther museum? The Chinese climbers spent an inordinate length of time in the "death zone," if I got it right, had no water for 30 hours, and may have been short of oxygen. I'd like to know more about their oxygen supply. Nonetheless, the argument you guys made here is good.
Who was actually the first to summit Everest from the North side without a ladder and have conclusive evidence of this achievement unlike the mystery still sorrounding the desputed summitts of Mallory/Irvine and the Chinese... Would it be Conrad Anker ? Why is the ladder still left there to summit Everest and to make the summit easier when a great climber can summit without it and make it a "pure accent". 🦅⚪✴️
The Chinese in 1960 absolutely climbed the Second Step successfully, as their pitons were in the dihedral until the mid 2000's when the old ladder was replaced. So, they were the first to 'free' the Second Step. After that, the first ascent without the ladder was Óscar Cadiach in the mid-1980's.
7:57 he never saw Irvine, why do you insist on this. Irvine was in the central rongbuk for sure. Mallory's body is testimony to this and the rope injuries he had on his trunk. You're giving false speculation that Sandy was still on the mountain.
There are many who believe with 99% assuredness that Sandy remained on the mountain for years before falling to the central glacier. I have two interviews that thoroughly explore this likely scenario.
lmao what kind of interview was this? Fact because they had emotional? Frostbite? Described a snowfield you can scout with lenses from lower camps? He didn't give any evidence, why didn't you push him more on Why we need to easily give them the benefit of doubt? Comparing the rookie Chinese team to the American team 3 years later is hilarious
I believe that the Chinese team summited in 1960. The 1975 team who used the Chinese teams pitons on the 2nd step seems to add to the story been believable.
"Hey team, time to summit Everest for the second time in 15 years. Just be sure to bring a ladder this time to make it easier to verify that we did indeed make it the first time."
Bravo !! Wonderful, factual , concise and meaningful analysis here !! Thank you both !! Really credible !!! Let's face it.. 1960 was a long time ago....yet when someone says they accomplished something and there is no irrefutable to prove otherwise than one must believe that always .... anything is possible and likely probable when people have the determination, support and resources.....the reality of the obvious successful North face route climb by the Chinese 1960 expedition methodically, purposely assembled the largest amount of human resources/manpower and commitment for success it obvious they did in fact conquer the North face route to the peak first. Give credit where credit is due.
@Mrwhomeyou The Balcony is not very far of th Third Step (1 km), I highly doubt the weather could be radically different near the top, one side engulfed in a storm, and on the other, alpinists casually biwaking.
@@Howwhen_IQof9 On a ridge? You are obviously not familiar with mountains. Additionally, their footage of the 25th did show no signs of clouds, on the Nepalese side.
Are you enjoying the journey? 🏔 Join our community of adventure seekers! 🌍 Don't forget to subscribe for more incredible stories and mysteries from Everest and beyond: youtube.com/@everestMystery?sub_confirmation=1 Thanks for being a part of the Everest Mystery community!
Im not mountain climber, rock climber, heck I'm not even a hill climber hahaha but what I am is in love with channel. I love how much passion you put into your work and how much compassion you have for not only our environment but also humanity!! I was never into mountain climbers but because of you, you have opened my mind to a whole new world and I'm hooked. Thank you Thom for all that you do!
Wasn't Chris Bonington applying to enter China at the time he said he was convinced that the Chinese expedition was sucessful? Doubt the Chinese would have let him in if he had said anything els.
I'll contact Chris and ask him if he still thinks they made it and get back on that.
So it was a diplomatic statement (i.e. flattery)?
@@Boababa-fn3mr This has been said, and repeated.
@@EverestMysteryThat would be very helpful and informative 👍
@@Luriksen If I was going to get to interview the original members of the Chinese team in person, I'd say that too - I'd even claim Mao deserves the Nobel peace prize if it got me thru the door!
I grew up in what was then communist Czechoslovakia. Both Slovak and Czech climbers achieved several bold, technical Himalayan ascents, sometimes marked by adversity and tragedy. Official expedition reports often glossed over difficulties to appease the political elite because the expeditions were state-funded. For example, Fiala and Orolin’s 1971 ascent of Nanga Parbat was doubted by many in the West, including Reinhold Messner, until Fiala showed Messner his mittens, which had been left on the summit a year earlier. My point is that while the political climate can obscure the truth, core elements of the story may still hold, perhaps even in the case of the 1960 Chinese expedition. After all, the crux of the route was already behind them. Investigating and demanding evidence is fair, but we shouldn’t automatically assume a conspiracy.
The best comment I have read here.
@baze3SC - thanks so much for your excellent insight and for sharing your thoughts. I'm flummoxed by the doubters who base their negative conclusion due to the presence of overt propaganda in the report.
Astutely-worded comment.
Polish mountaineers have achieved some fantastic firsts in the Himalayas. Yet despite the fact that they were on the other side of the Iron Curtain, there was never a shadow of a doubt about their achievements. These guys and gals with unpronounceable names made us in the West dream just as much as Messner or Loretan.
The same goes for the Soviets, who had a long tradition of talented mountaineers (the Abalakov brothers), sport climbing in the DDR or Czechoslovakia, unlike the Chinese for example.
Dont care what any climber says about terrain or probabilities. There is no proof. There is a reason why Hillary is the first to climb everest in 1953 and not mallory in 1924. I believe mallory was first, but without proof, he wasn’t. Its no different for the 1960 expedition. If an expedition, as large as it was didnt have the wherewithal to make sure they had proof of an extraordinary accomplishment then in the world of scientific exploration it didn’t happen. Thats it. Its up the chinese to prove they were there, and they haven’t.
Do i think its possible they made it? Sure, but only if i overlook the fact they had no water or oxygen which really makes me wonder. Whether they did or didn’t is irrelevant without proof. If they don’t have the proof or wont let the scientific community examine it, then its their own fault that people question their claim.
First of all, I agree with what you're saying first and foremost. However, what % of the world's population has even heard of this or more importantly, gives a shit?
@@davem8836 The Chinese are notorious for self-promotion. And they always hide anything that makes them lose status or "face" in the world. That is why they only admit a few thousand COVID deaths even when it is an obvious lie. How many deaths from Covid did the Chinese have? In the end, it doesn't matter. They publish official statistics only for their benefit.
@@davem8836the world's population? Probably very little. The mountaineering enthusiast community? 100%
@@davem8836 100% of the people that are watching the video are interested.
Their bodies didn't need water or oxygen like mere mortals. They had Chairman Mao's blessings!
They had cameras but decided not to take pictures b/c it was too dark...makes lots of sense lol
This is not about the equipment at all. There have been many better equipped climbers since then who also didn’t make the summit.
They said they lost their cooker so how could they have water? They didn’t have water for climbing. They didn’t have water for something like 20 hours. Also, they are alive. Also there are several different accounts of this climb and they disagree with each other. It has to do with water, weather, experience, and proof. Frostbite is not proof of summiting. Maybe he cried because he knows they didn’t summit and they suffered so much.
Then how do you explain his exact description of the terrain on the summit pyramid? There's only one way to know and that's to have walked it, besides their photographic evidence puts them at the base of the pyramid, there's no real obstacles after that it's just a couple hundred more meters.
They made it, there's no way he could have described the terrain without having walked it and their earliest account of the terrain was before anyone else had been there.
It's a communist country. They continue to rewrite history all of the time. Call me skeptical. 20+ years passed before any western interviews. Weren't there pictures of all of the locations by then? I have no doubt that they tried and suffered greatly. Maybe they made it. There is just no proof.
Just a guess but if you had binos, and got within 500 meters, you’d have a pretty good look at the terrain.
Shih chan-chun claimed in his article that he climbed the second step in an earlier climb but descended shortly after. Theoretically, that could have been their high point for the whole expedition.
@@dukecraig2402 The description was not given until years later, and there were photos of the route at that time. This is not determinative.
How well could they have described the terrain if it was dark?
Thanks for the video.
I appreciate that this man has tremendous climbing experience and has spoken to the members of this team, but nothing in this video is all that persuasive.
That the Chinese team in 1960 reached the base of the third step is undeniable because they took pictures. Talking about that part of the climb is not evidence for what happened above the third step in the nighttime. That a later team found evidence of their climbing the second step means nothing because we already know that they were above the second step based on the pictures. That the guy took off his shoes briefly is interesting but isn't evidence in either direction.
That the rocks from near the third step would be similar to rocks from the summit just shows that rocks may not resolve the controversy regarding the 1960 or 1924 climbs. I don't know Everest geology enough to say whether those rocks were absolutely from the summit or absolutely not from the summit. Once he claims that third step rocks and summit rocks would be similar, he's admitting that the evidence just isn't there.
That the Chinese climbers from 1960 could describe the summit in 2001 and 2008 again means nothing. By that time, they could have heard multiple stories from people who climbed that route after 1960. They could use the stories from those climbers to supplement their own accounts and cement their own claims. They may have had surveillance images of the summit before their climb. If I were part of a government team trying to organize a propaganda climb, I'd have the military take detailed pictures of the summit area to try to prepare my climbers.
If they truly dropped a stove and weren't able to melt snow for water up there, I'm willing to accept that a summit success would be impossible. I'm also willing to accept that maybe they managed the incredible task of summiting without water. I can even accept that the Chinese government created that whole story as a lie to try to make them look even more heroic. Without evidence, I can't believe anything for certain.
I'm always skeptical of someone trying to read another person's emotions to determine the truth of the story. Maybe these men were very persuasive to Mr. Hemmleb, but that's not strong evidence. For him to suggest that there's something wrong with people who don't believe his account of reading emotions only further weakens his claims.
As I said in a comment on the other video, the climbers would have strong motive to concoct a story of success if they couldn't get above the third step. No one wanted to risk disappointing Mao. He'd had many people killed for much less. I can imagine all of them bivouacking all night at the third step in a state of exhaustion and coming up with the story in order to avoid punishment when they returned.
I don't know whether they succeeded. This video is interesting, and I enjoyed watching. I still don't know whether they succeeded.
2:56 he mentioned even first reports were quite detailed.
@@bojandolinar1535 This is a very long way to say you're sitting on the fence about it all. Everything you say is reasonable, but the video was asserting an extremely compelling account of the climb from a man whose experience and integrity as a climber is beyond all doubt and his face to face discussion with the actual members of the climbing team...all these bleatings about it not being evidence miss the point entirely. If you've ever been in doubt about something, especially if someone is being genuine or not, you cannot underestimate the profound insight gained from a face to face experience.
And, as I've said in other comments too, you can't "fake" a personal experience of that push to the summit...all the little details Hemmleb recounted from his interview can't be derived from anything but the experience itself, and given the outstanding reputation as a climber himself, it's no great leap of faith to take his word or his conviction in the matter.
@@SharonCorbett You're responding to the wrong person, I think you meant to respond to OP.
@@bojandolinar1535 A thousand apologies here my friend - I was addressing VTPSTTU...must've clicked the wrong reply button, lol 👍
@@SharonCorbett No problem at all.
Thom, did Jochen record the interviews with the Chinese summit team? Having a complete transcript of that interview or video would make Jochen's comments even stronger. I know the interview with Xu Jing was recorded, but not sure about the others. I will be waiting for your full interview with Jochen
Very informative, Jochen. Thanks for this.
From the master himself, whom I do indeed intend to welcome to the channel again soon!
@@EverestMystery Mr. Pollard, thank you for your delving into this topic. May I ask a question of you? When you interview Jochen Hemmleb again for this site, can you ask him about his interviews with Xu Jing? Specifically, that you received a question from a viewer, in regards to Xu Jing coming across the British 1933 High Camp, and possibly mistaking it for a body (Irvine) in a sleeping bag? Did Xu Jing know that the 1933 High Camp existed / was he aware of it? As further search expeditions go into the Central Rongbuk Glacier, it would help to know what Jochen experienced and took away from this encounter. Thank you for your time reading this.
-Just a weekend detective from lower New York State.
Well done Thom and Jochen. Greetings from South Portland, Maine!
Thom, you reach out to the right people for your interviews. Your journalism is first and foremost legit.
The boys and I enjoyed the interview but our opinions haven't changed. We were surprised to hear that the rocks lower down were no different than summit rocks. Why then all the hooplah over whether Mallory was carrying summit rocks?
The rocks are very different if you know what to look for. Just look at a photo of the north face and you can see bands of different color. It's called stratigraphy.
@@aeromodeller1 Thanks for replying. My daughter majored in geology before changing her major and getting her degree in engineering. Seems like I remember her talking about that now.
Whether they made it or not, the Chinese propaganda would have been exactly the same. For example a cursory look at Everest photos would allow a good description of the false summit/summit experience. Being on their last legs and being emotional about seeing your exhausted colleagues is simply evidence of those facts, not evidence they summited. Film footage and rocks would do that, but there is neither.
Great to hear from all of the experts on here who have made it to the top of Everest.
Thank you. It was cold up there btw.
One would do well to conduct a wee bit of research before commenting
@@Bob31415 cold and dark if my memory is correct... lol
Turns out it is all true after all. The team in 1975 summited again to retrieve the bust of Mao they placed in 1960 that had been steadfastly "surveying" the mountain from it's highest point for the past 15 years. The ladder was brought along to ensure they could relieve him from his dutiful 15 year watch expeditiously.
😆
They went back in 75' with a ladder to summit for the first time, a second time.
Can't they hand drill and put somethings to climb
@@samdavis6445
Glad you were there to confirm that.
@@samdavis6445 and that ‘75 expedition said they found the bust of Mao 😂
Great Video as always!
Thanks you! And thanks for being a friend of the channel 🤙
Everest; fascinating, always interesting, forever mysterious, totally fatal. Everybody goes up there dies. The lucky ones, from old age.
Well said !
Fabulous score ... hit the record button !
The follow up with team members spouting off details, his feet ...
It's such a great service these videos to them, to their climb unquestioned here, they prepoed well and put themselves on the line for each other ... he turned off O's fir his bros.
Beyond words, amoung the great climbs to now recall with admiration, fist-bump & a beer for cheer 🍺
One thing that I think is being overlooked by a lot of people is; China is a very community first type of society and the west, especially the US, leans more towards individualism. And some people can't understand or believe that these guys were sacrificing their oxygen and toes for their bros.
It's definitely an admirable climb for sure.
Great comment, thank you!
Sadly I think this is very weak from JH. His support is based on “feelings” and we can only assess the climb if we actually talked to the climbers (?).
The description of the snowfield and the bypass is nothing special as the Chinese had surveyed the summit with enough detail as to be able to elaborate that description.
That's exactly what Hemmleb did - and being such a veteran of the mountain himself where his experience and calibre of climbing is beyond reproach, then his account of the Chinese climbers experience is too. There's no ulterior motive at all on Hemmleb's part, he has absolutely nothing to gain by announcing his conviction to the Chinese climber's claims other than his integrity as a climber himself, talking in all honest openness with another climber who also has nothing to gain or lose in recounting an expedition that had such a profound effect on him, physically and mentally, that it resonates to this day. To diminish the exceptionally experienced and intuitive background that Hemmleb brought to the table as just "feelings" is insulting to both of these impressive climbers, and you do yourself much disservice in asserting such.
@juan.i5o - yeah, so 'very weak' of JH, all he did was fly to China twice on his own dime to interview the entire summit team and others on the expedition. Further, unless you had been there, how would you know from 12 miles away through a telescope - or from the North Col for that matter - how to navigate to the summit? The 'very weak' conclusion is not JH's.
@@EverestMystery, thanks for taking the time to reply. Kudos to him for his effort, but the reality remains that his interviews reveal nothing substantial, and the takeaway is a "feeling." Maybe he can publish the full transcript, and we can judge for ourselves.
Regarding the "snowfield" and other features, these can be seen from the high camps. jakenorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/TD-EV-0814.jpg
@@EverestMystery The 1921, 1922 and 1924 expeditions surveyed the summit from every available location and decided that the ridge route was untenable. Norton deliberately misrepresented what Mallory had done and the Chinese expedition was misled by those accounts. If they had been true mountaineers, they would have done more research and chosen the easier and safer route along the yellow band and up the great couloir as Mallory did.
@@EverestMystery why was my reply removed?
Isn’t the reason they say they have no summit photos is because it was dark (night)?
So I don’t believe that picture from the base of the third step, in broad daylight, is the same day as the supposed summit
Good point
Exactly! It's from the following day, when they return to the bivouac point.
@@danielfalaschiffyluncuyo5505 more likely it was their high point
@@mikekraut7643 they reached their high point at dawn? Doesn't make sense to me
@@danielfalaschiffyluncuyo5505 it wasn’t at dawn
Thanks again Thom ❤
Right on Alex, talk to you soon!
Hi! Love your videos! Have you ever done a video on Michael Matthew’s? Just watched Finding Michael . Thanks so much!
I will indeed do one, thank you for the suggestion!
I think that the people that can continue to gather more evidence keep moving forward with investigating. We are all on pins and needles to get the facts and that information has to be out there. Keep perseverance with safety for all that go back to Mt Everest. 🥰
Let me make my work here
2:47 300 feet = 91.44 meters, 500 = 152.4
6:48 100 meters = 328 feet
I taught I thaw a big woolie put-tee tat? What is a beauty!🐈
Great interview! Thank you!
They weren't on the summit until they were on the summit!!! If they were, then only the Chinese who stood on the summit, know it truly, until they provide proof for the rest of us. If they weren't, then it stays like it does right now. 🤷♂️ = no
@@TurdFerguson456
The Chinese don't care what an anonymous named TH-cam troll thinks about whether or not they made it, don't expect them to jump up out of their chairs to satisfy you.
The description of the summit matches later accounts, so I believe they made it.
Thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts!
Hi Thom, is there more information from Jochan regarding the possible sighting by the Chinese of Irvine
well now I am even MORE convinced they made it! Good for them! Another great video! Boy I am sure loving this channel. I'm blessed I found you.
Thanks for your help today Kelly! Let me know if you can make it to the next livestream next week!
Watching from Northern California. I dig your channel.
Awesome! Thank you for being here!
The proof is in the stones they brought back, as long as they are analysed with X-ray spectrometry, and the analysis demonstrates in fact it corresponds to the summit, this technique is beyond doubt.
Only if there is clear chain of evidence preservation. Because so many have been on the summit since, and rocks from later ascents could be substituted. The chinese never cheat or lie, do they?
@JavierFlores-tt7tp Unfortunately, even if the rocks were submitted to x-ray spectroscopy/spectrometry and were shown to be rocks from the area of the summit, there will still be doubters who will claim that the rocks were collected by another summit team.
@@stevenr5534 a photo of the original 1960 rock samples exists, which Jochen himself has access to
@stevenr5534 Hahaha. 😂 True.
I love it when your cat puts in a guest appearance!
It sounds like, at least, the preponderence of evidence indicates that the Chinese team reached the summit in 1960. Yes, I know that a preponderence of evidence is the standard for a civil court and not a criminal court, which requires evidence beyond reasonable doubt.
I've heard theories that the Chinese may have found Irvine's body and removed it and the camera that he may have been carrying because the camera might have had pictures of Irvine and Mallory on the summit. As far as I know, these theories lack any evidence to support them. And, at least, in my opinion, though I believe I've heard others express a similar idea, a summiting is only really successful if the climber also makes it off the mountain alive. Peace, and please keep up the great content!
I'm no climber, but I've learned one thing, it's that most deaths occur on the way down... it's possible Mallory and Irvine summited but it is just as likely that the Chinese summited in 1960 and died on the way down....
Do you mean that a different group of climber summited in 1960 and died on the descent? And not the climbers that are accredited as summiting and surviving?
They didn't die. JH interviewed them.
I am interested in one day see Everest from it's base and take beautiful pictures; forget about climbing Everest.
Since joining the channel and the information given by Thom and guests iv slightly changed my mind that Mallory and Irvine didn't make it due to the bad weather they came across to achieve a summit success, we need that dam camera 📸... 🦅⚪✴️
While I’m still not convinced the 1960 team made the summit (their video from base of 3rd step was in broad daylight but somehow it was too dark to take pictures on the summit because they topped out in the middle of the night??), I just wanted to say this was a great interview. Hemmleb is a fantastic and eminently qualified guest, and I respect you both and appreciate you bringing good content like this to the table to paint a fuller picture of the data, context and people of Everest history. I hope we can all agree to disagree respectfully without casting aspersions on peoples’ motives for taking a different stance.
Nope. Too much verbal diarrhoea here
@tylerrichards6456 - I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much for your thoughts
Im wondering if a forensic expert could analyze the microfibers and microplastics at summit to identify past visitors
@everestmystery -Nice video -Are Jochen Hemmleb's interview transcripts of videos with the Chinese climbers available? Id love to read everything they said to Jochen and Simonson. However, I want to because it's interesting not because its important or matters that they got to the top -Their struggle with the second step is the real achievement.
Tom this interview is 100% compelling to me. We all know the Chinese regime and how information does not flow sometimes the manner in which we expect. Thank you kindly for bringing this into its correct context
In other words, you're saying "Chinese people lie because they oppose America".
Gentlemen; Thank you both for your work here. Question: Regarding Xu Jing, Jochen interviewed him in 2001, and once later. (2008?) . Is it possible that Xu Jing saw the 1933 high camp instead of of body? I have that same feeling as when you find a lost object, unable to remember when you left it there.
Until they release the "summit" rocks then we have no reason to believe them, regardless if they're distinguishable from the 3rd step, considering the photos we have of them appear far lighter than the rocks found above the 2nd step. We also have no reason to take at face value the opinions of people such as yourself who have a financial interest in the 1960 expedition having made it, considering the ability to film documentary expeditions such as the search for Mallory and Irvine hinge on the Chinese government giving permission. When productions of that scale and value are on the line, it's best to take opinions with a grain of salt.
I wasn't aware the Chinese were ever asked about the rocks and that they were not releasing them. Jochen discusses the rocks at the end. Me having a financial stake in the 1960 Chinese having been successful is, with all due respect, hilarious. The Chinese wouldn't give a rat's arse about my opinion. I wish I were that influential, that I had a financial stake in ANYTHING, let alone whether the Chinese made it or not. Further, that shot of the rocks could be any rocks, not necessarily summit rocks. If I were gifting Mao with rocks, I'd want pretty ones.
@@EverestMystery great clarity thank you Tom
@EverestMystery so you honestly believe they survived that long, at that altitude, without oxygen or water?
@@LoreTunderin listen to Tom's comments specifically about water consumption on his summit day. It might change your mind
@@grantsutherland6798 it hasn't
So hilary and norgay managed to take a camera tothe summit in 1953, but the chinese didn’t seven years later. OK.
@@HanneHvid you are the sort of person noone wants on their team. You would have shoved someone over the edge to be the first to summit. And then wonder why you have no help to descend. There were no ‘footprints ahead of norgay’, dear, because BOTH summited TOGETHER. Now bugger off before your mummy finds out you’ve been on her computer again.
You must be one of those (insert ad hominem attack).
To those defending the cult of personally brainwashed and whipped Chinese, please give one example where the Chinese were thought to be lying and or was later discovered they were actually telling the truth. Just one.
“Feelings” rather evidence? How can you call yourself an historian? Also, TP calling those who doubt the 1960 summit claim as claiming the Brits did summit in 1924 is quite insulting and weak. I’m starting to lose respect for both JH and TP.
My intent on this channel is to present a variety of angles and perspectives. One might prefer never to have heard a candid discussion about the extensive research of JH. One merely needs to click to a different video. Another thing adhered to on this channel is that I ask viewers to show respect and kindness when commenting, regardless of how their opinions may differ.
It is obvious. IF the chinese had the proof that they did it they would let unpartial people examine the proof. But they don't and they will not. AND addressing the first question on how ppl can be so sure that Mallory did it but not the chinese. The people that are beliving that the chinese did it are sure that Mallory didn't make it even if they were more prepared and better climbers. AND the rocks are NOT the same!!
Maybe it’s the romantic in me, but I believe Mallory reached the summit AND I believe the Chinese did as well but actually lived to tell the tale. I’m not Eurocentric, though.
And it’s quite odd that you call Irvine a better climber than the Chinese? 22-year-old Sandy Irvine was a great athlete but had very little mountaineering experience. Mallory, of course, was a great climber.
@@kcbarbo78 You have a good point about Irvine. I still think that under the leadership of Mallory he would be a better climber.
Part of the problem with believing that the Chinese made it is THAT they survived. To survive for the amount of time that they claim, at those altitudes, without water and without oxygen would truly be a miracle. And only one of the 4 even got frostbite if I recall.
If mallory and Irving had never been seen by Odele and they showed up two days after their attempt, claimed that they summit at 4am and spent 48 hours near and above 8500, I wouldn’t believe that either.
Mallory and Irving had a much better chance of making it up (and dying on the decent), than the Chinese had of doing what they claim they did.
@@chrisp1598 Well stated.
In a way, this debate is pointless. The first people to climb Everest by fair means (without oxygen) were *Messner* and *Habeler*
Of course they got there. The dissent is political
Sure they did...then they woke up.
Wish the Chinese would share the contents of the lost Kodak , if they did find it. Finders Keepers I guess
As Jonathan Frakes always says: *It never happened.*
"Pure fiction..." "We got you..." Also, we never did ascertain the whereabouts of that missing barbeque gas grill lid.
Just because they lied to him to his face he believes they did it .
Without stating that the reached the summit or they did not reached it, I think (after listening carefully to your guest) that the likelihood that the Chinese team did reached the summit is on their favor.
Ok…maybe they did make it.
I have doubted this summit for long time and it will probably remain for me a matter of probability. However, it breaks my heart when I think I personaly deny them their achievements if they realy made it to the top. How would I feel about that myself? Thus, f*ck this, just for peace of my own mind I say yes, I accept they made it and if they didn't, well, they have to live with that, not me...
Still not convinced, too many feelings and conjectures. The answer is we dont actually know if they summited in 1960. Proof is lacking.
These were the Chinese, so they had to summit, or say they did.
Without proof, there should not exist an official record ... but that's China and the North Side of Everest belongs to China, so....
Any climber hoping to enter China/Tibet is most likely going to go with the side most favorable to China for future North side accessibility reasons.
Also, becoming emotional about it just means that it was an overwhelming experience, regardless of how high they got.
All I'm saying is that you can't deny one (Mallory & Irvine) and not the other (Chinese '60s team).
The Chinese completely ignored the fact that Mallory & Irvine were spotted at the Third Step and quite possibly and even likely summitted.
IF, the Chinese did get to the top and back, they would have carefully documented each step and made absolutely sure there was no doubt of their success. They would not rely on a "preponderance of evidence" or a possibility of success. And, they would not be shy about their success. If they made it, which I seriously doubt, there would be no end of their proclamations of success, and Mao would have treated them as national heroes. They would have been lionized as the Greatest Chinese Mountain Climbers of ALL TIME!!!!!! There would be statues of them standing on top of Everest, there would be movies and books. But, there is none of that. So, NO!!! They failed and they are too ashamed to admit it.
After listening to this in depth description, I believe that the Chinese team made it to the top in 1960.
I don't believe the Chinese made it. I think Jochen's information about the high-altitude training is very important, but I would like to see more detailed information about their experience. I don't think the frost-bitten feet prove anything nor does their detailed description of the summit which they would have climbed in total darkness. The pitons don't prove much and I don't believe the Chinese claim that they found the rope on the 2nd step 15 years later. Is it displayed in ther museum? The Chinese climbers spent an inordinate length of time in the "death zone," if I got it right, had no water for 30 hours, and may have been short of oxygen. I'd like to know more about their oxygen supply. Nonetheless, the argument you guys made here is good.
Who was actually the first to summit Everest from the North side without a ladder and have conclusive evidence of this achievement unlike the mystery still sorrounding the desputed summitts of Mallory/Irvine and the Chinese... Would it be Conrad Anker ? Why is the ladder still left there to summit Everest and to make the summit easier when a great climber can summit without it and make it a "pure accent". 🦅⚪✴️
The Chinese in 1960 absolutely climbed the Second Step successfully, as their pitons were in the dihedral until the mid 2000's when the old ladder was replaced. So, they were the first to 'free' the Second Step. After that, the first ascent without the ladder was Óscar Cadiach in the mid-1980's.
@EverestMystery That's great 👍 thanks for the information Thom ✴️
Did anyone see the Pitons before the ‘75 chinese climb?
Messner (via the Norton-Couloir)?
Excellent video with a very informative person. I believe the Chinese did summit in 1960. Great content as usual!🎉🎉🎉
I promise I made it I didn't take a video till I was at the bottom . Lol
No picture no credit .
And they’ve had 60 years to
Obtain the summit info
To update their story
Propaganda!
7:57 he never saw Irvine, why do you insist on this. Irvine was in the central rongbuk for sure. Mallory's body is testimony to this and the rope injuries he had on his trunk.
You're giving false speculation that Sandy was still on the mountain.
There are many who believe with 99% assuredness that Sandy remained on the mountain for years before falling to the central glacier. I have two interviews that thoroughly explore this likely scenario.
@@EverestMystery Wasn't his foot found a couple months ago on the mountain?
@@Bob31415 Yes absolutely! I have a couple videos about it, here's one of them that you will enjoy: th-cam.com/video/e0GqKwgLzEw/w-d-xo.html
lmao what kind of interview was this? Fact because they had emotional? Frostbite? Described a snowfield you can scout with lenses from lower camps? He didn't give any evidence, why didn't you push him more on Why we need to easily give them the benefit of doubt? Comparing the rookie Chinese team to the American team 3 years later is hilarious
I believe that the Chinese team summited in 1960.
The 1975 team who used the Chinese teams pitons on the 2nd step seems to add to the story been believable.
"Hey team, time to summit Everest for the second time in 15 years. Just be sure to bring a ladder this time to make it easier to verify that we did indeed make it the first time."
Bravo !! Wonderful, factual , concise and meaningful analysis here !! Thank you both !! Really credible !!! Let's face it.. 1960 was a long time ago....yet when someone says they accomplished something and there is no irrefutable to prove otherwise than one must believe that always .... anything is possible and likely probable when people have the determination, support and resources.....the reality of the obvious successful North face route climb by the Chinese 1960 expedition methodically, purposely
assembled the largest amount of human resources/manpower and commitment for success it obvious they did in fact conquer the North face route to the peak first. Give credit where credit is due.
No, people do not have to believe their words. That is not irrefutable evidence. It’s simply a story, until you provide evidence.
Lots of non climbers here hating lol, if the weather was good there is no reason they couldn't finish the climb.
This very same day, members of the Indian expedition, on the South route, had to turn back, due to bad weather (wind)
@@marcmonnerat4850 which is on the opposite side of the mountain
@Mrwhomeyou The Balcony is not very far of th Third Step (1 km), I highly doubt the weather could be radically different near the top, one side engulfed in a storm, and on the other, alpinists casually biwaking.
@@marcmonnerat4850 do you not know how drafting works??
@@Howwhen_IQof9 On a ridge? You are obviously not familiar with mountains. Additionally, their footage of the 25th did show no signs of clouds, on the Nepalese side.