Tallassee Carbine: The Confederacy's Last-Ditch Effort

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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    In 1863, the Confederate military decided to design a new standard pattern of cavalry carbine. The designs was put together rather quickly at the Richmond Arsenal; a 25 inch barrel, brass furniture, and Enfield type lock. Before production could begin, however, Richmond was deemed too risky of a location. The CSA went looking for new Arsenal sites deeper within the Confederacy, and farther from the threat of Union raids. One site found was Tallassee Alabama - a large cotton mill complex on a river and only 6 miles from a significant railway. The CSA arranged to take over one of the old mill buildings, and there is set up the Tallassee Arsenal.
    It took a long time to get equipment moved to Tallassee, to get the building renovated for use in firearms production, and to source the materials necessary for carbine production. Somewhere between a few hundred and 500 carbines were completed by April 1865, but they never saw service as the Confederacy crumbled. Their ultimate fate is unknown, with various theories suggested including that they were used as reinforcements in the rebuilding of the mill. Today less than a dozen are known to survive, almost all of them in museum collections.
    For a more detailed history of the Tallassee Arsenal, I recommend this article form the American Society of Arms Collectors:
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ความคิดเห็น • 632

  • @RSpracticalshooting
    @RSpracticalshooting ปีที่แล้ว +1478

    Being Floridian my brain read "Tallahassee" so when Ian said "Tallasee" I was extremely confused for a few seconds.

  • @possumpatrol45
    @possumpatrol45 ปีที่แล้ว +985

    With an 80% failure rate, Ea-Nasir must have been reincarnated as a spring steel supplier for the Confederacy.

    • @genghiskhan6809
      @genghiskhan6809 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      LMAO

    • @AGS363
      @AGS363 ปีที่แล้ว +61

      Ea-Nasir? Oh, you mean the copper guy!

    • @tyrian_baal
      @tyrian_baal ปีที่แล้ว +72

      GOD DAMN YOU EA-NASIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • @jalpat2272
      @jalpat2272 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      Ah warm my heart to see a fellow voice of past listener.

    • @Eric-vs2he
      @Eric-vs2he ปีที่แล้ว +40

      Earl Jonathan Nasirfield

  • @stormthrush37
    @stormthrush37 ปีที่แล้ว +125

    6:40 That's actually a pretty ingenious device for retaining the ramrod while simultaneously allowing its use. I'm impressed.

    • @alecblunden8615
      @alecblunden8615 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      It's a fairly standard device for cavalry muzzle loaders, in use for a couple of centuries by the time. Logical, but yes it's cool.

    • @kutter_ttl6786
      @kutter_ttl6786 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Just Google stirrup ramrod to find more images of the device. Not sure of when it first appeared, but there are pistols for use by Dragoons dating as far back as 1800 that have that feature.

    • @stormthrush37
      @stormthrush37 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@alecblunden8615 Oh really? That's cool. Learn something new every day.

    • @guynemer53
      @guynemer53 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Would help prevent reenactors from accidently shooting their ramrod too (true story).

    • @lorsmephisto5222
      @lorsmephisto5222 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@guynemer53 Wow, that sounds scary, lol

  • @SamSpade903
    @SamSpade903 ปีที่แล้ว +118

    I live about 20 minutes from Tallassee. The old brick cotton and armory buildings were still standing until a few years ago. As kids, we walked through them once or twice after brunch at the Hotel Tallassee.

  • @craighansen7594
    @craighansen7594 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    When you mentioned confederate rifle barrels used as reinforcement in a foundation it reminded me of a very long fence and gate system at a place called Grant's Farm. The fence is built primarily of Civil War rifle barrels, thousands of them(alot but not sure of the exact count). This is in St. Louis County, Missouri. Those are surely forgotten weapons and hundreds of people drive past them every day not realizing they are there.

  • @harlech2
    @harlech2 ปีที่แล้ว +96

    The cannon that sits out on the corner of the ME engineering building is from Tallassee. Also, I have been diving in the river by the old armory looking for cannons that were allegedly dumped when the armory was packing up.

    • @mikejohnson2098
      @mikejohnson2098 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ME engineering building?

    • @harlech2
      @harlech2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@mikejohnson2098 ME.. mechanical engineering @ Auburn. At least it did in the `80's.

    • @Indeciferable
      @Indeciferable ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wouldn't they presumably be buried under mud? I'd assume if the river is still flowing they'd naturally sink into the river bed over time.

    • @harlech2
      @harlech2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@Indeciferable The bedrock there is pretty shallow, so the mud and debris gets swept away from time to time.

    • @jamessimms415
      @jamessimms415 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Supposedly there’s a cannon from Selma in the Tombigbee River near Gainesville, AL

  • @wesleyrogers5390
    @wesleyrogers5390 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    In '89 or '90 my dad and I went to Giest music shop in Helena Arkansas and dad purchased one from Mr. Giest. Mr. Giest (about 70 at that time) said he can remember as a small boy, his granddad put that carbine, along with the saber I purchased in that corner and no one paid any more attention to them.
    The carbine dad purchased did not have a sling. It did have the rings for a sling. I had a brass bar and ring on the side of the wood opposite the lock. It also had a serial# 590 on the trigger guard and on the wood under the butt plate. The wood and brass was complete as well.
    My eldest brother now owns the carbine, as dad passed in the early 2010's
    I went hunting with it the same year dad bought it. We used black powder, with a slug and sabot from a 20ga. It did not kick as hard as my 20ga. It put a HUGE hole in the beaver I shot.
    To the best of my knowledge, no one has fired or even loaded it since I cleaned it.

  • @bamaDSM15
    @bamaDSM15 ปีที่แล้ว +333

    How cool, I grew up in Tallassee and the old armory structure is there. It's a ruin now but until about 20 years ago it was a standing roofed structure still.

    • @STho205
      @STho205 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      I went to a fund raising dance there one autumn...about 1998 to 2003 or so. Can't remember which year exactly.

    • @petesheppard1709
      @petesheppard1709 ปีที่แล้ว

      I grew up around Tallassee as well, but never knew about the Civil War history.

    • @cullendonaldson9303
      @cullendonaldson9303 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      My 3rd great grandfather was a blacksmith in coffee county Alabama at the time and he made some small parts in these guns

    • @paulstuhrenberg9165
      @paulstuhrenberg9165 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Went to Hotel Tallasee for Sunday dinner for years 30 years or so ago

    • @STho205
      @STho205 ปีที่แล้ว

      Stayed there myself. Last time about 2000.

  • @carlvondrunker7855
    @carlvondrunker7855 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    In the last couple of years, the Tallassee armory was disassembled. Tallassee is pretty cool. There's a car grave yard of models from early 1900's to the 70's just in a ravine by the river, and it's illegal to harvest anything off the cars. Great little downtown. Cool to see this and I've seen the Tallassee Armory before it got torn down.

  • @EngineeringWizard11
    @EngineeringWizard11 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    This bears a striking resemblance to the 1856 Enfield carbine. I have a 1972 Indian manufactured replica that is chambered in 12 gauge. It's a wonderful shooter, launching 1oz round balls downrange.

  • @velvetant
    @velvetant ปีที่แล้ว +7

    My great grandparents and grandparents worked in the cotton mill that was the Arsenal before they built the other cotton mill across the river.
    My grandmother still lives half a mile from the old Mill.

  • @gregbrown4009
    @gregbrown4009 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    The handling and "handiness" of a carbine-length riflesd from ML to SA has always impressed me. It is fascinating that it took so long for the M4 carbine to become the standard barrel length. Now pretty much every new military rifle on the market is carbine length.

    • @filmandfirearms
      @filmandfirearms ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Apart from everything Walker mentioned, there's also the simple fact that our understanding of ballistics and optics, as well as related technologies, weren't as advanced as they are now. It was obviously more than adequate for most purposes, people still hunt with 19th century pattern muzzleloaders to this day. However, with the simpler rifling that was available at the time, the slightly improved accuracy of a longer barrel was a welcome benefit. It's only recently where the difference in accuracy has become so negligible that a shorter weapon is actually a net benefit. It's not as if carbines didn't exist until the M4, every army on earth had a carbine variant of their standard rifle, even before rifling started to see regular service. Fusees, for example, were just shortened smoothbore muskets, and were very common among officers, and even occasionally appeared with light infantrymen. Quite simply, there are some situations where a shorter weapon is objectively better, but until recently, the benefits did not outweigh the costs enough to justify widespread use

    • @ismellmandude6401
      @ismellmandude6401 ปีที่แล้ว

      I haven't been keeping up with military stuff, care to explain what's going on with the whole 6.8mm thing?

  • @R4002
    @R4002 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    The American Civil War took place during a very interesting time in firearms development.
    I live in Richmond, and one of the reasons it was chosen as the capital of the CSA was the fact that Richmond had more industrial capacity and is located at the intersection of several railroads and of course the James River - direct water transport to the Hampton Roads area, the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic. So “important transportation hub” is putting it lightly.
    Of course the industrial capacity is very important.
    Otherwise…Richmond is almost exactly 100 miles due south of Washington, D.C.. hence why a huge number of Civil War battles took place in Virginia.

  • @drewm389
    @drewm389 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    Macon arsenal wasn't burned down. It fell in due to neglect. Source: Historical marker in Macon. Also, the Cook & Bros building is an admin building for the University of Georgia as it was never burned down either.

    • @primeministersinister625
      @primeministersinister625 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I reckon since Cook was a private company, it doesn’t technically count as a confederate arsenal

  • @leo7001
    @leo7001 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I've lived near that mill for 50 years and never seen a weapon that was made there.

  • @gwoody4003
    @gwoody4003 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I have a Traditions brand .50 muzzleloader that is pretty much this model but with an octogon barrel. Has that straight line from the trigger to the butt plate and everything. Wish it had the ram rod guide, thats a sweet feature.
    I got it because I was looking for a muzzleloader for hunting that felt like my Win.94 30-30.
    The short barrel is nice for aiming from inside a blind, walking through brush and climbing in a tree pretty easy.
    Most shots are within 50 yards so I don't need that extra barrel length.

  • @jagx234
    @jagx234 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    The map story was horrible and hilarious at the same time.

    • @DanielBeaver
      @DanielBeaver ปีที่แล้ว +31

      They did that guy cold for trying to help them out.

    • @STho205
      @STho205 ปีที่แล้ว

      Shows that despite the rhetoric, the Union Army didn't care about anything but forcing the rebelling states back into the Union....just as they said at the onset of the war.

    • @DB-yj3qc
      @DB-yj3qc ปีที่แล้ว +23

      Showing a pattern..... about government. I'll leave you to 🤔 on.

    • @cyberpunk2453
      @cyberpunk2453 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      @@DB-yj3qc That's a pattern about humanity in general. I'll just point out that government is reflective of that in all forms, even idealized ones.

    • @CoolAndrew89
      @CoolAndrew89 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      @@DB-yj3qc "Hmm yes I shall provide a vague statement that doesn't really add anything to the conversation"

  • @holopaste
    @holopaste ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Love having breakfast with a brand new forgotten weapons video

  • @AGS363
    @AGS363 ปีที่แล้ว +93

    The interesting thing is that almost everyone spent decades using front loader, while breach loaders were already very much feasible.
    Remember: The Dreyse-Zündnadelgewehr was introduced in 1837!

    • @beargillium2369
      @beargillium2369 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Doesn't do much good if you can't get ammo

    • @lairdcummings9092
      @lairdcummings9092 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      It wasn't technical limits that argued against breechloaders - it was machining *capacity* - not enough factories of the right *type* available.
      Well, that, and military conservatism; no need to train new drill, no need to stock new spare parts, etc.

    • @Bobafett-lc2vx
      @Bobafett-lc2vx ปีที่แล้ว +12

      @@lairdcummings9092 The cheapest and readily available option is the best option.

    • @STho205
      @STho205 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Laird is correct on both counts. Mfg capabilities for elaborate hinging, latchings, fittings, vs a tube with a touch hole drilled. Remember in this lecture, 80% of mainspring steel were rejected in this startup. Such steel rejects were common in most startups.
      Burning black powder looses effectiveness through breach venting. Tri nitro powder made this a negligible issue.
      Manufacturing early breach loading cartridges is also a major struggle. The Henry Martini breach loader was often plagued by bent foil cartridges jamming the gun. One of the causes of the Zulu overrun. Trapdoor Springfield needed very precise paper cartridge for proper fit, where muzzle cartridge didn't.
      The trapdoor Springfield after the war was not much faster than the 1863 muzzle only design. Pouring and ramming ball takes about 6 seconds in the load sequence. Opening the door, inserting cartridge, closing the door takes 4. Hardly noticeable in battalion fire of single shot longarms.
      Trapdoors were fitted with rammers. They were used as muzzle loaders into 1900 when proper cartridge (or damaged substandard cartridge only) was available.

    • @alexandermarinin7036
      @alexandermarinin7036 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Major issue was ammo production and logistics. With muzzleloaders all you need is to bring couple casks of gunpowder and few chunks of led to troops, so soldiers could make cartridges for themselves. But for metallic cartridges you need whole industry and proper logistics capabilities

  • @eloiseharbeson2483
    @eloiseharbeson2483 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I thought this thumbnail said Tallahassee 😂 That story about Cook sounds awful familiar. Grocery stores that give out credit to keep their customers coming in often find that the customers end up owing so much that they take their business elsewhere so that they don't have to pay on their debt every time they come in.

  • @vernonbender3384
    @vernonbender3384 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    As I recall, there survives an intact Conferedate powder mill deep inside Mammoth Cave. Apparenly the 10' thick deposits of bat guano were superb for extracting saltpeter.

  • @boingkster
    @boingkster ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Looks like an Enfield or Snider at first glance. Go figure!

  • @tsk9277
    @tsk9277 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    You would think that you'd send a few soldiers to check the river crossing before just shooting the random man.

    • @lovetohate028
      @lovetohate028 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's 1865. They're all desensitized and have killed enough civilians to not value life all that much

    • @jameshenderson4876
      @jameshenderson4876 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Military intelligence at work.

    • @Aliyah_666
      @Aliyah_666 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      ​@@jameshenderson4876 Paradox in terms right there.

  • @kylehebert3738
    @kylehebert3738 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Enjoyed your utreon video the other day went over an watched thanks for all the great content!

  • @dinsdalemontypiranha4349
    @dinsdalemontypiranha4349 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great story about the history of these guns Ian! The ramrod retainer is a great piece of engineering: simple and effective. I'm really impressed by the thinking behind this design. I don't remember seeing anything like this in any of your videos of muzzle loading weapons. Thanks!

    • @jeffreyknickman5559
      @jeffreyknickman5559 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I had a book years ago that was an encyclopedia of weapons. There was a drawing of a P1856 Enfield piston (sea service I think) with one.

    • @BleedingUranium
      @BleedingUranium ปีที่แล้ว

      I was super impressed too, it's complex yet simple, and I'm very surprised that I don't think I've ever seen it on another muzzle loader.

    • @kutter_ttl6786
      @kutter_ttl6786 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The retainer is called a stirrup ramrod and was several decades old by that time. When you Google it you'll find pictures of pistols for Dragoons dating as far back as 1800 with that feature. It seems it was most commonly used in cavalry carbines and pistols.

  • @nathantucker5300
    @nathantucker5300 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    While my wife was in Veterinarian school we live right behind where the old Tallassee Armory used to be. It is one of those old Southern towns that is basically dead. The only reason it is still even there is because it sets dead center between Montgomery and Auburn.

  • @Dryhalf08
    @Dryhalf08 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I’m from tallassee and work probably 300 yards from where these were made originally.

  • @timbaskett6299
    @timbaskett6299 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    It's a "basic" design, but I do like the simple design. I have a Hawkens .50 cal percussion rifle that someone got a "wild hair" in working over the stock, and it is missing the front sight. I can't beat the price for it, though. I bought for $50. I want to fit it with a diopter sight(my favorite open sight)and redo the stock on it.

  • @CeltKnight
    @CeltKnight ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Being from (and in) Alabama, I really enjoyed this bit of history. Further spiking my interest, the first PD I worked for hired a chief from Tallassee and he brought several of his folks down to fill new posts. I made some life-long friends, and that chief's now d-i-l is my physician. So when I saw Tallassee, I had to watch this (of course I watch every other FW video, but .. you get what I'm saying). ;)

  • @ricardodavidson3813
    @ricardodavidson3813 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    As far as I am aware, the ramrod swivel first appeared on the British Paget carbine around 1812, it was in service by the battle of Waterloo. Can anyone add to this?

    • @kutter_ttl6786
      @kutter_ttl6786 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's called a stirrup ramrod, it may have been invented several years before that. When I Googled it, I found an auction for a Dragoon pistol dating from circa 1800 that already had that feature.

  • @ImpurestStewart
    @ImpurestStewart ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Tallassee, Alabama. One of the nicest small towns i've visited.

  • @gus.smedstad
    @gus.smedstad ปีที่แล้ว +191

    That “union troops murdered a slave because they didn’t believe him” story was pretty casually horrific.

    • @Jacob-pu4zj
      @Jacob-pu4zj ปีที่แล้ว +36

      Many such cases

    • @wizardofahhhs759
      @wizardofahhhs759 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      ​@@Jacob-pu4zj Why don't you share a few of them with us?

    • @samuelprice2461
      @samuelprice2461 ปีที่แล้ว +79

      @@wizardofahhhs759 If you read a lot of actual Civil War memoirs, you will find that many Union soldiers despised slaves and free blacks. Union soldiers were often more dangerous to black people than Confederate forces.
      Lots of Union conscripts viewed blacks as “the reason why I’m here being shot at.”

    • @wizardofahhhs759
      @wizardofahhhs759 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@samuelprice2461 That's a good point.

    • @butcher-pete
      @butcher-pete ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Yeah, I didn't really love how much he laughed at that

  • @saladiniv7968
    @saladiniv7968 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    you can still load a muzzle loader without a ramrod using something called tap loading. it's certainly not as effective and you risk having the project not fully seated, plus i'm not sure if it would be feasible at all on horseback.

    • @Unus_Annus_
      @Unus_Annus_ ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I wouldn’t take that risk

    • @saladiniv7968
      @saladiniv7968 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Unus_Annus_ even if it's that or not shoot back at all?

    • @satansnarwhal
      @satansnarwhal ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@saladiniv7968 would rather use it as a club

    • @cjp8u2
      @cjp8u2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ian evidentially needs to give Sharpe a watch.

    • @saladiniv7968
      @saladiniv7968 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@cjp8u2 i really would advise against the sharps technique, spit loading like the do in that series is hilariously unsafe. there is always a risk of a couple burning embers being left in the gun after firing, couple that with you putting your mouth over the barrel to reload and the results will be pretty mind-blowing, as in your brain gets blown out the back of your skull.

  • @astridvallati4762
    @astridvallati4762 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Copy of Enfield Pattern 1861 Cavalry Carbine...with captive ramrod, & side-bar and sling ring.
    DocAV
    Edited 11.04.23 correct Pattern.

  • @bobgoodman1451
    @bobgoodman1451 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The shell of the fallacies armory still stands. Very impressive

  • @rusty_square6319
    @rusty_square6319 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Just even listening to these stories about how poor weapons production was in the CS just reinforces how poorly thought out the entire idea of the CS was in the first place.

  • @RDeathmark
    @RDeathmark ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I would imagine that that ramrod retention thing also makes it so that loading is a little faster because you don't have to worry about lining up the end of the ramrod with the barrel it automatically lines it up for you basically

  • @dutchcountryoutdoors
    @dutchcountryoutdoors ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Found a custom replica of one of these a few years ago. I had no clue what it was.

  • @TheDagraner4576
    @TheDagraner4576 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    While correct, it is worth a good chuckle to hear ian say the "the later years of the civil war". You know, all 2 of them.

    • @TheDe1deonly
      @TheDe1deonly ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I would think, having never participated in a war of this magnitude, that every year felt like a lifetime to those involved...

    • @ScottKenny1978
      @ScottKenny1978 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Like the early, middle, late years of ww2. 1939-41, 42-mid 44, and June 1944-1945.

    • @dsch0
      @dsch0 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ScottKenny1978 Don't forget 1937-39 - some of the most destructive years of the Pacific War.

    • @St.Augustine-p7k
      @St.Augustine-p7k 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@dsch0 Not the pacific war, the pacific war didn’t begin until late 41

    • @dsch0
      @dsch0 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@St.Augustine-p7kIt began in 1937 with the Marco Polo Bridge incident, or alternatively 1931 with the Mukden incident. The US and European Allies joined after Pearl Harbor in 1941, but the war had been raging for four years already, with China standing almost totally alone.

  • @JamesThomas-gg6il
    @JamesThomas-gg6il ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Next episode Ian shows how to load and fire from horseback..then the next time its on to the BUG range paired with a LeMat.

  • @dbaider9467
    @dbaider9467 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This weapon was so high-tech for it's day, 160 plus years old and in such nice condition, considering.

  • @georgem7965
    @georgem7965 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ian, this is the first time I have ever been able to hear something I consider question able from you and it is very surprising that you wouldn't know this. I haven't read all 500+ comments to see if anyone has brought this up but I believe that you have the explanation of the operation of the articulated ramrod a bit off. I have always used one by flipping the ramrod 180 degrees after removing it from the guides so that the wide, flat end is the one pushing the powder and the projectile down the barrell, just like a normal mussel loader. I have never seen one of these operated using the small end to push down the paper cartridge or projectile. In fact, I believe that it might be very possible for the small end of the ram rod to pierce the paper cartridge and create a number of problems, none of them good.
    I'd like to see any black powder folk comment on this.

  • @sealove79able
    @sealove79able ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Quite a great very interesting video and musket GJ.These muskets had a pretty good range and a hefty cliber.Have a good one.

  • @anthonyfarmer4977
    @anthonyfarmer4977 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I may have missed it, but has there ever been a video on the lever actions of WW1? I was wondering the other day why they weren't used, then was surprised to find they were, I had just never heard about their usage in the war. I was even more surprised to see that the Winchester Model 1894 even carried into WW2.

    • @rileyknapp5318
      @rileyknapp5318 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd imagine there was a pretty wide variety of reasons they weren't used. What immediately comes to mind is:
      They need a two-piece stock, which is more complicated and expensive than a one-piece stock a bolt-action uses.
      Similarly, I'm under the impression that a lever-action firearm is more complicated (and therefore, expensive) than a bolt-action.
      While rather uncommon, even a 1 in 10,000 tube detonation for a lever action would be, if not _unacceptable_ to a military, highly undesirable, and the vertical magazines of bolt action and self-loading pistols were much more appealing.
      Except for 45-70 Gov.'t, which were single-shot and blackpowered and _super_ obsolete by WWI, lever action rifles used pistol cartridges, which obviously are far less powerful than a rifle cartridge.
      Lastly, bolt-action rifles would've actually been faster/easier to load, I think. A lever action with a tube barrel needs you to manually reload, one round at a time, whereas a bolt action you just grab a 5-round clip from its pouch and you reload in mere seconds.

  • @NoThankYouReally
    @NoThankYouReally ปีที่แล้ว +2

    They shot the slave that tried to help them. War truly is hell.

  • @markdunn2076
    @markdunn2076 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    The German needle rifle had been around for a while. it is surprising neither side experimented with it.

    • @brettbaker5599
      @brettbaker5599 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      There were a few tested before the war, but they weren't adopted.

    • @Ginrummy33
      @Ginrummy33 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Probably a combination of supply cost, manufacturing complexity, and general warryness of new complicated tech.

    • @jessestreet2549
      @jessestreet2549 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      The firing pin was fragile and prone to breakage.

    • @balasaashti3146
      @balasaashti3146 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@jessestreet2549 I don't know I've seen a few videos on that and it seems pretty sturdy. On top of that it was really simple to swap the needles and each man was given a spare. I would assume manufacturing and cost is the biggest factor.

    • @balasaashti3146
      @balasaashti3146 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Robert Stallard Wait that's literally what I was implying, at the end. I was just pointing out the needle rifle was a pretty good firearm for its time period and use.

  • @michaelpeltier2772
    @michaelpeltier2772 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    By 1863 United States cavalry was mostly using breechloading carbines. Sharps were most common, but Burnsides were in the field, and the first field use of Spencer rifles was at Gettysburg. Shortly after the battle Lincoln overrode Ordnance, and Spencers quickly became the 2nd most common carbine for US forces.

  • @mitchellline4242
    @mitchellline4242 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ian could you at some point make a video on all the little differences between the 1861 springfield and the 1863 update

  • @kirkboswell2575
    @kirkboswell2575 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Small point. That style ramrod wasn't used by pulling straight out and going straight back down the barrel. The bump on the end was just to keep the ramrod captured. After pulling free from the stock, the ramrod is spun end for end, and the larger part rams the ball home. Spun end for end again, and replaced into the stock. Not a new technique. First used on Austrian military arms, I think (not positive about that part).

    • @josemalave1322
      @josemalave1322 ปีที่แล้ว

      That’s my thinking at first, but looking at the video, it looks like the large end of the ramrod is way larger than the bore

    • @kirkboswell2575
      @kirkboswell2575 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@josemalave1322 - Good thought, but no. Pedersoli has recreated this style with one of their muzzleloader pistols. And it has instructions on how to use it.

    • @NullElemental
      @NullElemental ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @kirk this isn't a reproduction firearm. the muzzle end of the ram rod as mounted while stowed is CLEARLY too large for the bore, what you are describing may have been used for other weapons, but not for this example.

    • @kirkboswell2575
      @kirkboswell2575 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@NullElemental - "Clearly too large" ..... no, that's a camera lens effect. While this carbine is original, not a reproduction, the method of use of a captured ramrod system is an oft repeated method. The Confederates wouldn't have used a captured ramrod system and at the same time made it unusable in a normal manner. If I'm mistaken and it's not a camera lens effect, I can safely say that it isn't an original ramrod.

    • @josemalave1322
      @josemalave1322 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@kirkboswell2575 Well, I’ve seen this on many reproductions, and I’d agree with you, but the one in the video is obviously way too big for the bore. I’m serious, just watch the video and tell me that it will visibly fit

  • @bill5457
    @bill5457 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fascinating as usual, Ian. I just wish you had shown us a close-up of the muzzle. I'm curious about the rifling, i.e., whether they used the 3-groove Zouave pattern or something more akin to the Mississippi Rifle.

  • @marvinguillot9327
    @marvinguillot9327 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome. Love your Chanel. I actually see Weopons I never knew about.

  • @setituptoblowitup
    @setituptoblowitup ปีที่แล้ว

    Imagine rocking a GE mini and iPhone with a way to recharge both on one of those battlefields

  • @BrochachoEnchilada
    @BrochachoEnchilada ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The rammer captive device seems to be copied directly from the Paget Carbine

    • @johncopeland4782
      @johncopeland4782 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I understand the arrangment is called a 'stirrup ramrod'.

  • @dwayneelizondomountaindewh6073
    @dwayneelizondomountaindewh6073 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    that's a nifty little gun.

  • @aaronzigelbaum
    @aaronzigelbaum ปีที่แล้ว

    Never thought I'd hear the phrase 'Percussion nipple protector'

  • @ssupdude55
    @ssupdude55 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Ian, id love a video on the plain Jane steyr M95. I've got one and I'd really like to hear whet you have to teach about it!

    • @michaelwarenycia7588
      @michaelwarenycia7588 ปีที่แล้ว

      I second that ! (On the video...sadly I don't have a Steyr m95)

  • @wreckinball11
    @wreckinball11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm sure they asked nicely for the cotton building.

  • @niflag
    @niflag ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man they sure were good at having high failure rates. Sucks to suck.

  • @spondulixtanstaafl7887
    @spondulixtanstaafl7887 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the great content, some collector will be very happy.

  • @zachv1942
    @zachv1942 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Supply Chain Issues. I wonder why?. Sherman mabby knows.

    • @Stand_watie
      @Stand_watie ปีที่แล้ว +2

      well, you had ships the blockade had us before Sherman but Sherman did destroy all the cities than never threatened the union hooray?

    • @satansnarwhal
      @satansnarwhal ปีที่แล้ว

      Sherman never attacked any of the raw supply facilities tho? Him and his men sacked civilian towns, burned innocent farms, oh and lets not forget all the raping and pillaging war crimes they committed. Not really a guy to be proud of as he's the equivalent of a Nazi in that time

    • @moekitsune
      @moekitsune ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@Stand_watie cope Neoconfederate

  • @frenchroast1355
    @frenchroast1355 ปีที่แล้ว

    Was the ramrod retention device used on any other firearm? That's pretty ingenious.

  • @TheArklyte
    @TheArklyte ปีที่แล้ว +3

    ^This, this is what most guns made "after the end" would look and perform like, dear post-apocalyptic authors.

  • @TheSmsawyer
    @TheSmsawyer ปีที่แล้ว

    "Tallassee Carbine" sounds like a country song.

  • @stumpythedwarf8712
    @stumpythedwarf8712 ปีที่แล้ว

    Super cool, thank you Ian.

  • @USAACbrat
    @USAACbrat ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Was it rifled or smoothbore, 58 cal. sounds like it was rifled. Is it too rusty tu tell?

  • @johan.ohgren
    @johan.ohgren ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Throwing this out there. Anyone know where one might buy 54. Cailbre bullets, either round or minnie?

  • @fancyultrafresh3264
    @fancyultrafresh3264 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That fixed ramrod solution was incredibly neat though I question its utility.

  • @comiketiger
    @comiketiger ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting once again

  • @chriskelly929
    @chriskelly929 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fascinating. Thank you!

  • @edouardrobert160
    @edouardrobert160 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really enjoy your site thanks

  • @edshelden7590
    @edshelden7590 ปีที่แล้ว

    The site on that gun was adjustable for what you say is 600 yards. What would be the realistic accuracy at that range?
    What real damage could you do with that range?

  • @nilo9456
    @nilo9456 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ian, This may not be your area of expertise. When you talked of moving machinery, I started to wonder how the CSA obtained their arms making machines.
    I know that the CSA got some of their machinery from Harpers Ferry and there may well have been other State and Federal arms manufacturing facilities from
    How ever, I also recall that many small arms were obtained from foreign sources from which the CSA could and did obtain small arms and artillery.

  • @malm8477
    @malm8477 ปีที่แล้ว

    It belongs in a museum!!!

  • @scottsossaman2725
    @scottsossaman2725 ปีที่แล้ว

    It really looks like a 2-band Enfield Snyder Sergeants Model.

  • @CliftonHicksbanjo
    @CliftonHicksbanjo ปีที่แล้ว

    Macon was gone by the middle of 1864 anyway.

  • @kenibnanak5554
    @kenibnanak5554 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool gun. I have no idea why someone would buy that and not take an oiled rag to it and do some stock repair. I mean not only are there pieces broken from the stock and a crack on the other side, but also we see light rust on the gun's metal. It needs a rub with oil and a rag badly.

  • @conan2096
    @conan2096 ปีที่แล้ว

    was that damage caused by a misfire?

  • @loyddussaultsr4181
    @loyddussaultsr4181 ปีที่แล้ว

    The ramrod setup is one hell of an idea

  • @charleshowell7855
    @charleshowell7855 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks similar to 1862 Tower Enfield except in the carbine configuration.

  • @xXM60E4Xx
    @xXM60E4Xx ปีที่แล้ว

    Hehe I’m thrilled to see this as an Alabamian from Tallapoosa County.

  • @WeegeeSlayer123
    @WeegeeSlayer123 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Aww yeah, finally another CSA weapon.

    • @Stand_watie
      @Stand_watie ปีที่แล้ว +2

      the best weapons

    • @WeegeeSlayer123
      @WeegeeSlayer123 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@Stand_watie If only the South had gotten to make more guns.

    • @alecmullaney7957
      @alecmullaney7957 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@WeegeeSlayer I'm very glad the traitors were defeated. Just a shame we couldn't pull up the weeds of Southern aristocracy out by the root.

  • @pacificostudios
    @pacificostudios ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm amazed that the CSA government didn't start making standard small arms until 1863.

  • @MPi-KM
    @MPi-KM ปีที่แล้ว

    You better do a range report😉

  • @DeatheaterSirius
    @DeatheaterSirius ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm pretty sure this chamber will explode when get loaded

  • @Modernnannenginemarineengine
    @Modernnannenginemarineengine ปีที่แล้ว

    I think I only access Forgotten weapons to hear Ian say TOOONING IN .always makes me giggle. Seriously tho. I really do enjoy his total Enthusiasm for his subject. WEAPONS of all kinds in all ways. And considering I get the “Impression “ that he’s not a big moose / deer /Racoon /Possum hunter. That’s Extra cool. Target shooting is more fun. . After you shot a Animal. And it was a totally clean death shot. And even then. The Groaning and whistles and blood pouring out it’s Mouth while it BRAVELY try’s to get up. Is not my idea of a sweet Dreams nite. Anyways. Respect Cody Custer of the left handed Long rifle brigade Arizona .. 😅

  • @BuckarooBoya
    @BuckarooBoya ปีที่แล้ว

    It's really nice to see some confederate weapons on forgotten weapons

  • @UgandanAirForce
    @UgandanAirForce ปีที่แล้ว +1

    imagine dying because your directions were right and the union troops didn't believe you, that's a disappointment right there.

  • @sakkra93
    @sakkra93 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great birthday present!

  • @jon9021
    @jon9021 ปีที่แล้ว

    Just finished watching “Gettysburg”…again, and what pops up today? Ian and a confederate carbine!

  • @nassirahmad4873
    @nassirahmad4873 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the history in this video. The Union didn’t destroy the armory - and worse still, a man died - because of a bad map. Jeez.

  • @robinusher5707
    @robinusher5707 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looks like a two-band Enfield whose parents had a drink problem.

  • @cipofly
    @cipofly ปีที่แล้ว +1

    è un vero pezzo di storia Americana 👍.

  • @djackmanson
    @djackmanson ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Even with a rifled barrel, the 300 and 600yd sights would have been ridiculously optimistic for a carbine being fired from horseback, surely?

    • @cavalieroutdoors6036
      @cavalieroutdoors6036 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I don't think the idea back them was necessarily pick out a single target and down them with irons at 600 yards. Think about how wars were fought. 2 armies standing shoulder to shoulder exchanging vollies across an open field. The idea beyond probably 100 or 200 yards was probably just to get rounds close enough to hit someone in the cluster.

    • @JesusChrist-hu8vh
      @JesusChrist-hu8vh ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Cavalry in the era often fought as dragoons. Dismounting to fight so its possible if a bit optimistic for any accurate fire.

    • @STho205
      @STho205 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      As long as they could get proper elevation, they could make the distance with a minnie ball. The windage error on these sights were horrible, however they are not sniper weapons. They are to knock down men standing in lines X yards away...any particular man is not important.

  • @mikedunn7795
    @mikedunn7795 ปีที่แล้ว

    Was this musket rifled? Don't recall if Ian said it was or not. Never mind. Googled it and it was rifled.

  • @Alan.livingston
    @Alan.livingston ปีที่แล้ว

    Sucks to be the dude who got shot because of the incorrect map.

  • @salvadorsempere1701
    @salvadorsempere1701 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Smart thing the ramrod stuff...

  • @destinharris7504
    @destinharris7504 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My hometown becoming famous

  • @mikehipperson
    @mikehipperson ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow! Gun Jesus admits that 'nipple protectors' are not his expertise!

  • @jonathanstancil8544
    @jonathanstancil8544 ปีที่แล้ว

    That is a beautiful piece of history. Perfect patina for a survivor. Unfortunately my bank account matches the condition of this carbine:great for display, not suitable for use.😂

  • @jeffryrichardson9105
    @jeffryrichardson9105 ปีที่แล้ว

    Like my Mores Carbine!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸