10 Best Tips I've Learned For Stabilizing Wood with Cactus Juice
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
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Casey, I love you videos and this one in particular helped me immensely. Appreciate your efforts 😊
Thank you for the advice and information! It's always easier learning from someone else's experience and mistakes. It is much appreciated!
Doing lots of research in preparation to get into stabilization. Greatly appreciate this sharing of experience.
Thank you Casey this will help me out a lot as just taken delivery of my vacuum chamber and can’t wait to start using it.
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I have a better understanding. Thank you again.
ONE of the "whys" soaking is so important plays out in every day woodworking too. Consider finishing a floor, for example. As long as you keep the floor wet with finish, the finish can soak in to the wood, including through cracks and joints. The moment you stop keeping the finish wet (working it), the finish starts to polymerize and seal the wood. Once that surface seals, that's all you get. Anything you add after that is surface coat. Of course, for stabilizing wood, you want penetration and the deeper the better.
P.S. Thanks for the video.
Great video, appreciate you taking the time to make it.
Fantastic video Casey. There are so many tips and tricks to learn about stabilizing and casting. I am glad that you covered a few very important ones. Thanks for the tip about the aluminum foil... It really does make a mess. I definitely will try with a drip pan next time instead of wrapping all of them individually. Thanks again for the tip.
Glad to help Tracy. I agree the foil is annoying. Best of luck.
Came across this video and it has very good information. I see 19 thumbs down for this video. Is it because no gaming consoles were discussed. To see a young person intersted in woodwork, pen making or anything besides gaming or drugs then support them to the fullest. Great job to you and you continue doing qhat you love.
Hey man thanks! I'm a knife smith with a killer hookup for wood. Decided to stabilize myself, thanks for the info!
Number 10 was my favorite, I’ve watched a few videos on stabilization but never heard about the glass top, I’m just getting started on wood turning and acrylic casting and have been collecting for about three years.
Very interesting video thank you for sharing your knowledge.
👍⚜️⚜️⚜️
Teddy Daw
Thanks Casey. Great tips!
Thanks for the Vid casey ...love the info keep it up :)
Thanks John! Glad I could share some helpful knowledge
A lot of great info. Thanks for sharing
Informative video, thank you
Thanks for this video Casey. Im going to be ordering my stuff this week pretty excited and appreciate all the content that you produce.
Great vid,thanks!
Casey -- That's a very good list of tips. The only thing I might add would be to use TurnTex' "Oven Tamer" to precisely control the temperature of the toaster oven. (You can make your own if you have the skills.) It allows you to cure at a lower temperature, which translates into more of the Cactus Juice staying in the blank and less mess.
Hey David, yes I agree that’s a great recommendation. I actually recently got a master built 30” smoker and love it. It’s incredibly accurate temperature wise. And it’s not the same or less expensive as buying an oven tamer and a toaster oven, and you get about 5x the space. I plan on making s video on it soon if Zac Higgins doesn’t, which is why I refrained from talking about it a lot in the video. But you’re right, they’re a great option
Thanks. I am new with it all, but I don't mind learning from others before I screw it up on my own. Lol.
Hi, great video well detailed. Do you leave the vacuum pump ON for the full duration when sacking all the air out of the wood? Or just like the pressure pot once it gets to the desired level switch off and leave as it is?
Yes it has to be left on for correct stabilization. Stabilizing is all about pulling the air OUT of the wood. It’s unlike some use cases for vacuum where once you obtain full vacuum you don’t need to pull anymore. You have to constantly have the vacuum pump on otherwise it’ll stop pulling air out of the wood.
@@CaseyMartin707 Thanks Casey really appreciate your reply 😀
Thanks Casey. Just getting started. I think I have all the equipment that I need but working on the knowledge end by watching you and Zac a lot. I do have a couple of questions. Where do you store your wood that it draws moisture? How do you make a vac pot with a Mason or Ball Jar? Where do get and how do you use grape vine?
I store my wood in my shop but in most locations in the US it will absorb ambient moisture in the air just from normal humidity. I know Zac Higgins doesn’t have much issues but he’s in Nevada where it’s super dry. I just pop it in the oven for 10 mins and it’s good to go. It’s more of a habit to be safe rather than sorry now.
You can buy a universal vacuum lid from turntex and use that. That’s what I did. I get my grapevine from a source that I unfortunately don’t share as it’s one of the few unique things I do in the pen blank industry and considering I share everything else on the channel I keep that tidbit for me.
Great informative vid thanks
I've been tapping a tack into burl and hanging them on a rod by wire in the chamber, points facing up.👍
I bake my stabilized burls just before casting. Has 2 benefits - one, ensures all surface moisture is removed and two, the residual heat helps the resin cure. I let the burl cool to around 60C/140F before pouring resin over it (Alumilite)
Casey your videos are awesome, Thanks, I have a question how do you clean up the burl top after stabilizing to get the resin that crystallized off? Thanks
That never happens to me because of the tip I mentioned about using the grate. If you put the burl so the live edge is facing upwards, or on its side, then you will only get bleed out crystallizing on the bottom of where the cut side is touching the grate. I recommend doing it on its side so that all bleed out can run down the sides
Thanks for sharing
you seem like a really smart guy in this topic, i want to build a banjo neck with burl wood, and i'm just learning about stabilizing wood, it's cool to see the dyes in the wood. what would you use to make a chamber for a 3"x 4"x 23" piece of wood for the neck and will it be very hard to shape it once cured?
Dense woods like ebony sink; the lignin structure is so filled with resins that no air exists to lighten it. The wood fibers are heavier than water or cactus juice, so once the percentage of trapped air has dropped enough under vacuum and bubbles nearly stop, the time the piece then sits under full liquid coverage is crucial so the liquid can fully penetrate the deepest areas. If removed too soon, the remaining trapped air can expand while the piece is being baked, enough that the piece will still float. Practically for turning or working that may still be plenty adequate to solidify the piece, but small air pockets may then be revealed during turning.
The tip regarding the dip tray was very interesting. Does that mean that it also could be beneficial to put the blanks in a salad spinner in order to centrifuge out all the juice which isn´t soaked in the wood before the heating process?
Good morning Casey. Yesterday my wife and I started our first stabilizing. We are stabilizing some really cool looking ambrosia maple pieces. It took a total of 18 hours to quit bubbling. My question is do I leave this to soak for a total 36 hours from the time we turned our vacuum off? Thanks for all the time you spend making these videos for people like us. Its really appreciated.
Yes if you want to do it “by the book” it’d be 36 hours. You could probably get away with less and not notice, but more is always better.
Your videos are very helpful. I’m just getting into stabilizing wood. What brand of pump do you recommend?
Gast
Great video. Helpful tips! Just getting into stabilization and hybrid blank making so I’ll definitely make good use of these tips! One question. I have a vacuum chamber with a plexiglass lid but it is custom made and is over 1/2” thick. It is way better than the standard 1/4” ones that you referenced cracking. Do you use glass because of the rigidity and anti-crack properties only or should I worry about a degradation of the plexiglass itself over time from the stabilizing resin? Thanks.
Mainly anti crack properties and because I don’t want to risk the possibility of cracks. Because when buying chambers from places other than turn tex it is usually hard to find the specification of the thickness of the lid
Got it. I'll pay particular attention to the lid for any signs of degradation and cracking, but mine is a very substantial lid, especially compared to the ones that come with the commercially available setups. Thanks!
great vid
Appreciate the videos a lot. Im about to try my hand at alumilite and wood turnings. I wanted to ask when putting blanks in the toaster oven will it brown the blank and will any smoking from the wood being in there occur? Again, already learned alot from your videos so thank you.
It can brown the blank from the cactus juice but not from the oven’s heat. Smoking from the wood burning won’t happen but cactus juice will steam a bit.
Hi Casey, how hard does this wood become? If you stabilize a cutting board this way, would the wood not be able to chip when someones using a hatchet against it?
Casey: Great video. Any recommendations on sourcing the material for the clear top? I have a large thick-walled aluminium pot, but don't know what material the top should be. Thanks.
I use glass lids for my metal pots, I don’t make them myself. The jar lids are from turntex. You can buy glass lids from best value vacs, but they’re pretty expensive to the point where it may be worth just buying a whole one. But I don’t recommend there’s because they have the intake in the side, not the top. The yescom chamber on the tools I use page in the description is what I love and recommend.
Stabilizing isn't the same as casting. Great vid...
I don’t believe I ever said it was! I have tons of videos on both topics
Dear Casey, Is it possible to stabilize snakewood to prevent cracking? Many thanks
Polycarbonate lids are fine as they are resistant to resin fumes whereas acrylic lids will suffer from cracking, not because of flexing due to vacuum on one side but due to resin fumes. Polycarbonate lids tend not to break if (when) you drop one unlike glass lids.
Our process involves placing items to be stabilised in a plastic container within the vacuum chamber after they have been baked to remove any moisture. Apply the vacuum and hold for between 4 to 8 hours (or longer) depending on species. While still under vacuum open resin feed valve and flood the plastic container submerging the items to be stabilised. Release the vacuum and place container in pressure chamber and apply 5 bar pressure. Hold for a couple of hours (or overnight). Finally time to cure the resin. This we submerge the items in water at 200 deg f for a couple of minutes to seal the outer layer then into the oven for a couple of hours to cure the items internally. This treatment in water that is just off the boil results in sealing the outer skin of the items and next to no bleed on final baking in an oven.
So I’ve talked to Curtis (owner of cactus juice, I’m sure you know him) about pressure and it actually doesn’t help at all in any capacity other than soaking time. If you use pressure you can cut soaking time in half. However the only really better penetration of the resin can be down at pressures of 3,500 PSI. HOWEVER, this only matters is it can be cured at 3,500 PSI which i don’t know of any pressure oven capable of that. Because as soon as the pressure is released, no matter how high, the resin instantly goes back to normal atmospheric pressure and is no longer penetrated as deeply. It makes sense if you think about it. The reason why casting resins bubbles go away is because the resin cures while under pressure. If you ever take some resin that isn’t fully cured out of the pressure pot, bubbles will reemege right away.
It sounds like you’ve got a solid process down and if it works great for you that’s all that matters. I use my pressure pots too much for resin casting so I won’t ever experience with faster soaking under pressure anytime soon, but maybe one day.
Hi Casey, thanks for the info. Do you get a lot of smoke when baking the pieces after running them through the stabilizing chamber?
Yes I get a lot of steam. Especially because I’m almost always stabilizing very large batches of wood at a time. At this point I only cure when I can have my shop door open and a fan on. But it usually dies down after the first hour or so of curing.
Is it possible to stabilize would with a resin but without an oven? Is there a resin the cures on its own?
Dear Casey, congrats for your videos from Spain.
Please, what is reason because clear and new resin ( Cactus juice) change from totally clear to dark brown,if woods are not dye, with only 1 use?
Many thanks in advance.
It just has to do with wood giving it a little bit of a natural color, plus a little dirt gets into it. Totally harmless and doesn’t affect what color it stabilizes it as long as there is no dye in it
It'll quench ya! Nothing's quenchier! It's the quenchiest!
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Squishy mushroom
Is a vacuum pump vacuuming down to 22 Micron sufficient for pain Turner?
Hey Casey. What type of lid are you using for the Mason jars to get a vaccum seal?
Universal lid from turn tex!
How much vacuum can you pull safely with the mason jars and are you using the original lids or metal twist lids (like a pickle jar lid)? Thanks for any feedback and appreciate your tips and video!
You can pull a full vacuum and I use lids sold by TurnTex which are rubber lids
Very helpful tips like usual.
I wonder have you try stabilize wood like pines, mahagony, teak wood ??
Can it be done ?? How?
I have not. I’m not super familiar with those woods but if they are very oily then that can provide problems. But if they are not then it should be totally fine.
@@CaseyMartin707 yes that's my point, oily wood can not stabilize, Can it ?
that should be some tricks to do it.... !
I've done baking it 24 hours, and tried boiled 24hrs ...
Can anyone tell me if the HF vac pump is sufficient and or good for 10 quart pot for stabilizing, I under stand it has a vacuum pull of 22 microns ????
Hi Casey. What do you think about stabilizing this clock wheel blank?
Which blank?
If your vacuum tank is WELL sealed, you don't need to run the pump continuously. My tank holds for days at -28.5. I pump, then seal, then hold....if needed. Key...DO NOT turn off or on the pump while under vacuum. Have a separate seal and release ball valves. Also, take to max vacuum, add juice (separate valve), release vacuum. Wait a bit depending on density...let it soak. Then bring up to full vacuum and seal. Release vacuum to pump and turn off. Leave chamber till all bubbles gone (days if needed). Then release vacuum.🤗🙄
Not true, you need to continue to pull vacuum to continue to pull air out of the wood. Just because something is at full vacuum doesn’t mean air is still coming out of it. Full vacuum just means the absence of atmospheric pressure.
If you want to get all the air out of the wood you have to continuously pull vacuum and “suck” the air out of the wood until there is none left.
How thick do you feel the glass lid needs to be. Great tips
The thicker the better. I think the Yescom and BVV ones I have are like 3/4”
OK, please excuse me for being ignorant if that is the case here. However, does the wood already need to be dry before stabilization or can it be green?
I know this video is a bit older, but what are your thoughts on drying wood in Dessicant (silica gel) prior to stabilizing? I know it takes longer, but should be safer than running a toaster oven for hours on end in my shop, no?
A dessicant will probably not take you down to zero.
Have you ever tried to stabilize amboyna burls? Is it right that it needs a very long soaking time after releasing the vacuum?
Not worth stabilizing as they are already so hard
How is the smell when your put wood in over to harden cactus juice
how do you hook up 2 chambers to one vac pump.. i thought you talked about it on one of your videos. i can not find it.. do you just connect with just a Y between the 2 chambers
Yes. A T connection is best.
This is awesome. Learned a lot. My question. When you talk about 'soaking', do you mean just leaving the wood in the vacuum pot all night long, AFTER you've stabilized the piece?
Yes. Leave the pieces in the CJ for a bit longer than the time it took to vacuum the last bubbles out. One hint - weight the wood below the juice the whole time you are soaking. 👍
Hey Casey! Thanks for posting! Do you get a lot of smoke when just curing the burl on the grate? I notice I can't cure indoors when I do it that way because of the smoke/fumes.
Hey Justin, no I don’t. You should never experience smoke. Are you talking about the steam? I do experience steam in my toaster ovens every time I cure in those. It’s usually relatively early in the curing process and then goes away. There should never be any smoke though. If you’re actually getting that then it’s way too hot.
@@CaseyMartin707
I don't think its steam its got a pretty strong smell. Its almost like the cactus juice is evaporating off and smoking. I've experimented with a bit cooler but it usually still occurrs. Don't get me wrong the pieces aren't burnt after the fact so maybe I am confusing the smoke with steam but I visually its smokey.
I get the same and with odor.
Justin -- If you're getting actual smoke, your oven temperature is set too high. If you're talking about the 'off-gassing' that is part of the normal curing process with Cactus Juice, I'm not aware of anything to do other than to make sure to use a well-ventilated area. The off-gassing can be strong in a confined space.
I know what we’re all talking about. It does have a distinct smell, but I still believe it’s a form or steam. Because it behaves exactly like steam, not like smoke. I think it’s just because the evaporation of parts of the cactus juice causes a smell? Not sure.
But in regards to ventilation the only thing I could recommend would be to try to rig up some form of ducting from the oven to a window. Not sure how well it would work or how feasible it is without cutting an exhaust port yourself into the oven, but maybe worth a try? Best of luck man!
Casey Have you had any problems with the Yescom vacuum chamber? I saw review somewhere that said that the manufacture says that these can react poorly to some stabilizing resin.
No problems
Thanks, @@CaseyMartin707
Do I need to remove the wax on my wood blank before stabilizing wood blanks. 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 12"?
No not really. But you do if you are going to cast it afterwords. But if you’re just stabilizing it’s fine.
Addressing soak time: Sandy of Jacklore Knives (obviously dealing with relatively small blocks only for knife scales) uses a tall, narrow (roughly 4 feet by 8 inches diameter) transparent vacuum chamber. This lets him use less juice for more blocks than a short, wide container would. When the bubbles have stopped, the blocks soak under vacuum for about 2 days. When he opens the valve, he can watch the level of the resin sink, and he leaves the blocks in until that stops. In one video, he says he then drains the tube, turns the blocks over 180°, and repeats the process. After that, he places the blocks into a PRESSURE chamber with Cactus Juice and runs the pressure up to about 60 psi (plus four bars) or about five atmospheres for a day.
Sounds like he used a TurnTex chamber. I have one of those too.
All of his steps after the first soak are unnecessary. Atmospheric pressure doesn’t care about a block being turned over 180 degrees. And so him pulling vacuum again, is actually pulling some of the cactus juice out of the wood that was just pushed in there by atmospheric pressure when he released the vacuum. He’s actually going backwards when he does that.
As to the pressure, that can help decrease soaking time but you are not going to really increase total cactus juice impregnated into the blank. This is because of the way pressure works. Once the PSI is lowered back to atmospheric pressure, anything extra that was pushed in, comes back out. If it was possible to use a pressure chamber that was also a pressure cooker where you instantly could cook it and therefore cure it, while never losing the pressure, that would increase total uptake. But otherwise using pressure is unnecessary.
Hope all that helps!
Hell of a time getting walnut to sink. Should I vacuum 48 hours?? It seems like the bubbling will just go on forever.
Where did you get the taller vacuum chamber with the glass lid? The one with the cactus juice sticker on it.
It’s the yescom pot on the tools I use page which is linked in the description!
@@CaseyMartin707 after a longer time with the cheaper glass lid option, has it held up?
The link to the yescom chamber says it is not compatible with cactus juice. Is that just a standard disclaimer? I already messed up once and have one with the fine checks in the lid and don’t want to make the same mistake again.
Yes it’s a standard disclaimer. As I mention in the video, that will happen with acrylic lids that are too thin. The yescom used a glass lid. Therefore it is compatible.
They all put the disclaimer and I think yescom probably has acrylic versions too which is why they say that. As long as you get one with a glass lid it’ll be compatible.
Does it warp during the process?
Casey, you mentioned a mason jar stabilizer. Is this something you made?
On the tools I use page in the video description I have a link to the lid from turntex I use and the mason jar I use. Important to only use mason jars, as they are designed to be put under vacuum. I have a video on using that mason jar stabilizer though if you scroll back through my older videos
Cedar will still float after being stabilized. I pulled a vacuum on a block of cedar until no bubbles was coming up which took about 4 hours. I let it soak for 4 days and it still floated.
Interesting. I’m sure it is still very stabilized well. Curing it shouldn’t affect its weight but I’d be curious if it still floats after curing
Great tips Casey. I hope to get set up stabilizing wood soon. You mentioned moisture sometimes being an issue in a stabilized blank that will be resin cast. Could you put your stabilized and cured blanks into a vacuum bag or purpose built container and then vacuum all the air out? Wouldn't that keep moisture out? The bag or container would have a valve to hold and release the vacuum.
It’s an important thing to take care of as I mentioned, but you don’t need to go to a super extreme like that unless it was going to be sitting for months. Ziplock bags, Saran Wrap, airtight food storage containers, all work fine for a few days, even weeks. My buddy Zac Higgins does Saran Wrap and then food storage containers and he has them sit for weeks sometimes
its the quenchiest
One more tip is don't overheat when curing or the juice will almost completely bleed out of the wood. I learned this the hard way when my toaster oven went over 250 deg. All the cactus juice ended up in the bottom of the oven, leaving barely any in the wood.
What temperature do you use
Just curious, wouldn’t applying pressure during the soak speed things up?
It can. The founder of cactus juice, Curtis seebeck, says it can but it’s not too significant from what I remember.
For me it’s more a practicality thing, I’m only using my pressure pots for resin and vacuum chambers for CJ. I don’t want to contaminate a pressure pot for just a couple saved hours
Casey Martin that makes sense. I suppose I can just increase the pressure and speed it up a lot.
Thanks for the reply. Have a great day and be safe out there!
I've had this idea kicking around: After vacuum/soaking, seal the blanks in vacuum bags and "cook" them sous vide at 200 degrees. Think that would work?
The plastic would melt would it not? You wouldn’t want to do that regardless because the actually soaking part of the process is where the resin gets into the wood. After the vacuum is released it literally sucks it into the wood. Putting it back under vacuum in these bags wouldn’t do anything.
@@CaseyMartin707 No, because sous vide is cooking in a bag under water, so it wouldn't melt. The big advantage would be perfect temperature control and being able to do 5 gallons worth of blanks for like $120 for the sous vide setup.
Yes but after just looking that up it’s only to 140-155 degrees right? Maybe that plastic can withstand a temperature of 200, I don’t know.
I can assure you cooking the blanks in a vacuum will have no affect on the cure versus cooking them like normal.
It sounds like you’d really only be doing that method to cook blanks in a larger capacity then. I’d recommend looking into smokers instead. You can get a good sized one for the same price as your setup and you could do probably 20 gallons worth of blanks or more. I’ll have a video on mine soon
@@CaseyMartin707 it can get up to 210F, but your point is far enough on the smoker. I didn't realize it held so much
Yeah they’re awesome. I have the 30 inch master built with a window, but the windowless works just as well and is $100 cheaper
Great Info there Casey, now go clean the rest of that Cactus juice off your hands.
Casey, can I stabilize a laminated wood blank? I upcycle palletwood often and it would be amazing if my blank wouldn't fall apart in oven or pot. I see a lot of vids on resin play but all have been a single piece of wood. 8 just bought a glassvac, cactus juice, dyes, saburrtooth course tips, wand, merlin2.... I plan to carve my blanks. You have already been an amazing help. Thanks
Oh and what temp in toaster oven to dry wood before stabilizing?
I'm gonna try 200°
Yes 200 and I’m sure you can stabilize it! I don’t see why not. Best of luck and have fun!
Is the soaking process under pressure
Never mind I read one of your other comments
Can you re use left over cactus juice?
Yes
@@CaseyMartin707 thankyou for replying. I just ordered all of the stuff required so time for a learning curve
As the air comes out isn't resin going in its place? Or does all of that happen when you release the air back in to the tank?
It all happens when the vacuum is released and after. Which is why soaking is extremely important
Everyone talks about using a vacuum pot; how about a pressure pot?
The vacuum pulls the CJ in more effectively than the pressure method. 👍
@@jamesbarisitz4794 Thanks
Great information, crack kills
?
@@CaseyMartin707 at start of video you bend over , hince crack kills
A year later.... do you still use cactus juice? What is a burl? What is live end?
Yes I only use cactus juice. Google what a burl is. It’s a part of a tree that is usually below ground. Live edge is where the bark on a tree is. It’s the natural edge part
Hey Casey
Video qui a l'air très intéressante mais je suis français et je ne comprends rien 😂😂😂
Dear sir, to stabilize the wood that degree of moisture is allowed, try to reach zero percent by heating the wood just cracking. Thank
Why do you use cactus juice when there are multiple better products available
There aren’t
Sir can I get your mail.id , I have certain questions to be clarified
show don't tell
I have 10+ videos on it