I think a fun topic in the future would be what politics is like at a cEDH table. Some nuances that might be different than an EDH table. For beginners like myself
In CEDH with my pod it's usually establishing resources to deal with the player getting too far ahead. For Example, can I hit you with Ragavan/Tymna to gain more card draw to deal with the problem at hand. Casual and CEDH aren't much different despite CEDH doesn't really have spite plays
@3:16 Stax as an archetype originally comes, not from Smokestacks, but T$4KS -> $T4KS (The 4,000$ Solution) from back in Vintage (Though it did play 4 of Smokestacks, in addition to the likes of Sphere of Resistance and Tanglewire). Something to consider when talking about Stax is the weakness of just getting run over. Ideally, you have the most significant boardstate to prevent this, but it's always worth noting when you drop a stax piece, "can they just beat me to death?" Consider, Kennrith, Kraum, Najeela, even the likes of Urza Karnstruct or First Sliver- having something that's just big enough to defend yourself or able to dissuade just dying to simple attacks. On the flip side, if you have something that's just big enough to threaten life totals, you don't need to necessarily think about playing your normal wincon through stax; sometimes, you can just roll them over. Stax with how reliant on creatures it tends to be also tends to lack boardwipes, as they are so creature focused, which means that when one Stax deck gets board advantage over another, it's difficult for that player to be dislodged without the helpful opponent.
Just as a caveat to the origins of the Stax name: It doesn't derive from Smokestacks, but from a deck called $T4KS, which was shorthand for "four thousand dollar solution" because the cost of it at the time was 4k, because it ran multiple P9 cards. There are multiple references to this online. Thanks for the vid as ever 😁
Also, for context, it was the $4k solution to Gro-A-Tog decks, which were dominating the meta after Psychatog was added to Miracle Gro lists (please correct me if I'm wrong).
I absolutely love playing against stax, it cripples my playstyle but I love trying to work through them. Also I think stax are needed in all levels of magic in some way. RIP Hullbreacher.
Man. I wasn't a fan of this channel, but got really addict to it. So much that I'm building a Winota deck myself, though not full cEDH, as I don't want to include the KikiJic combo line. Going to focus on hate bears and big humans as beaters, which is more in line with my playgroup power lvl, and my style as well.
i have a similar deck, retains some of the stax pieces from snowball, but focusing really on combat damage, usually opponents concede though when Winota triggers 10+ :(
@@sylorknag yeah, currently using greaves, rebuff the wicked, blacksmith’s skill, brave the elements, boros charm. Agree with you that she is a removal magnet so it’s just spray and pray for me haha.
Really enjoyed this episode, and loved hearing from Joseph on his ideas around stax. I've been recently converted to a stax player myself, and I appreciate hearing about it from multiple perspectives. Now I need to make some edits to my list xD
I always love seeing pwp, casually competitive, and play to win colab, totally independent of what they colab on. Any time i see one of those names, i know itll be a good video, seeing 2+ really just turns it up to 11 for me. I dont know if mtgmuddstah does anything at the competitive/semi competitive level, but i would love to see some sort of colab with him (andrew) as well.
Great podcast. I like you mentioned this topic. In casual games I have mono W angel tribal deck with Avacyn as commander. Without land destruction and mass removal effects. But with stax cards to slow everybody so I'm able to cast my big angels. But I build up stax to be more annoying than to prevent anybody from playing anything. So effects that causing creatures enter tapped. Taxing opponents that would like to attack me.
I think people should just bring a bigger distinction between stax decks and prison decks which a lotta people call the same thing. Stax tries to get advtage over other players by playing around hate pieces, prison tries to just completely lock out the other players. Stax players look for fun by making everyone play the game in a different way, prison players do not understand the concept of fun and just enjoy suffering.
I really enjoy a well designed stax deck, one that is versatile and able to 'solve' a variety of decks. The exception is probably mono-W Stax, which is less tool box and more all out and has to accept limited card advantage and tutoring. At least W has some of the best stax effects, now that Hullbreacher is banned? I think you guys put it pretty well, but I'd adjust the chess metaphor and argue that a good Stax deck is one that makes the game into chess. It shouldn't surprise you that my favourite effect in cEDH is Rule of Law, probably holds true for higher power magic, but it becomes a dud in more casual pods (where stax is probably not what you want anyways?). My cEDH game plan is actually rushing to get Rule of Law (or an analogue) out to make it harder for the faster decks to win. I've been thinking about Cursed Totem, because I largely ignore it (and with Rule out, that turns off almost every other deck as far as wining) and can easily win around it. I think I've also heard people use Stax to mean 'Stasis and Tax', as in, a deck that used Stasis (or similar cards) and or Tax effects (Thorn of Amethyst) to make life very hard for opponents. People also include land hosers in here like Blood Moon or Contamination, and I include any effect that targets one or more players permanently that restricts them in some way, or taxes them. Thus, I also include Rule of Law effects, and many Hatebears as Stax effects. Smokestack afaik is actually not a true stax piece, it's a pox piece, because it just keeps shrinking the board, a pox effect. Is Pox Stax? If you feel it is, then Smokestack is also a Stax effect, but I don't think of Smallpox as a Stax effect, even if it does play a bit like one. Both feel pretty similar in eventual effect, and can play nice together for sure, but arguably they are separate archetypes. I had to pull Stasis from my cEDH deck, it just was too clunky (requires an untap effect to function in my deck) and too often blew up in my face (or someone just wins around it because I don't have Kismet or Archon out, because Consultation can do that). I ended up keeping another sorta-combo that hurts me too in Back to Basics and Energy Flux because they tend to hurt other decks way, way more. They are rarely as good as a Rule of Law, but if I've already gotten Rule out, they are decent durdle plays if I expect someone to try to threaten me still. Just because you run a bazillion tutors and win cons doesn't mean you find them quickly, Stax can help make sure nobody else can win while you dig. A Stax piece has to effectively be asymmetrical in some form or it isn't good in your deck, but if it will hurt other decks *way* more than it hurts you, it might be fine to run. It's fine if you stub your toe, provided everyone else falls into a pit they can't get out of. It's a bit weird running Back to Basics on the understanding that you just run more basics than most other decks (yet you need non-basics to actually cast your Commander early), but some games I definitely cannot play Back to Basics and still function, so Stax requires you to be paying attention. Other games it is hilarious, and works like a charm. Stax seems to be an incremental value strategy most of the time, where the 'value' is making it harder and harder for opponents to win, while not crippling you as much. Rule of Law doesn't cripple certain decks, so you may want a different effect in certain pods. Each piece you add worsens your opponent's situation, or even 'solves' their deck completely (like RiP often does), so Stax paradoxically loves lots of card draw and fast mana, though if you draw well, you might be fine with what might seem like an entirely passive hand. Stax doesn't have to be proactive early, which is a thing I love about it. I wildly prefer Staxing the board early vs playing Ponder effects most of the time. When I'm not Staxing, I'm probably removing whatever is still a problem, and if Rule is out, a lot of what you can still do is badly telegraphed. Still, I expect to get my early win attempts countered (I can't protect them with Rule out), but eventually people run out, or I get more protection out like Wandering Archaic (if I've got a mana lock, they might have access to a free FoW still) or Grand Abolisher to win. My deck embraces becoming the Archenemy, and tries to include ways to deal with it, because Stax can attract a lot of attention. You can't expect to have friends still after you resolve a late-game Dovescape, and turn off most of the decks hope of even interacting, unless they think 1/1 flyers are going to do work somehow. One reason Stax remains an issue (has the stigma) is that people don't run a lot of interaction for non-creature stax pieces. Hatebears like Magistrate tend to be StP targets, but Winter Orb might stick around until someone draws a bounce spell. Some colours can't deal with Winter Orb effectively. It gets worse if someone can protect their pieces, either giving them Hexproof/Shroud or with countermagic, those games are painfully slow unless the Stax deck can force a win. I eventually put in a combo that couldn't be countered in case the game goes longer, mostly because Hullbreacher had to go and I wasn't sure if I wanted Dauthi Voidwalker (because I'm bad at cards maybe? hard to say) in. A non-counterable win con can be really useful, even if it's not the fastest. This can help prevent salt from building up, being able to actually close the game in a reasonable time frame. I will say, Stax games can have a lot of turns, but those turns tend to be very quick, so a 20 turn game might only take an extra 20 minutes if people can't do anything. I support scooping to hard locks, or situations where winning is mathematically laughable and I want to play a new game. I think the difference between Armageddon and no plan and Derevi Stax is that Derevi has a plan to win after ruining everything. Armageddon can make it hard for everyone, including the guy who casts it. I run a combo that is definitely a bit too close to Armageddon, but it doesn't have to hurt me. Puzzle Lock can wheel away everyone's hand with a support card, giving them access to 1 card per turn, which they play at instant speed. This isn't a hard lock, since people could draw instant speed removal, but it's unpleasantly close to one. I have 2 decent ways to win after this, and can Necropotence, so it's not an issue for me, and I can even sit on a counter potentially (I run a few for this reason), at which point it is very hard to win against, but if none of my win cons remain, it's a very slow grind with creature damage to win things. If I play the cards wrong though, I can easily wheel away my own hand too and have someone draw interaction right after and perhaps lose because of it, so it's not a brainless combo. I think it's the saltiest thing the deck can do, which is saying something.
I would love a video which went more in detail about the tree different types of stax pieces what works and what doesn't. For instance are Energy Flux and Pendrell Mists good cards. I assume the former is better than the later since artifacts are more predominant than creatures. You could argue you probably just want to nuke all the artifacts (like with Melt Down) but Imagine there are many games you want some or even your own artifacts staying on the board. Is the taxation of the other players worth it. A card evaluation of stax pieces would be nice, especially in an open forum where more players gave their viewpoint.
Also, to slightly expand on what Joseph was saying when asked about how to pilot stax v stax when talking about trying to fly under the radar: often it can become where it is easier for an opponent's deck to remove you as a player rather than the stax pieces needed for them to go off. And I think Joseph was thinking about this without directly verbalizing it, but if your opponent is on, say, Tymna/Kraum, looking to Ad Naus/Breach/Thoracle, and you have double Rule of Law, darn good chance 4 points of flying (at the least) is coming your way every turn. And since the nature of Stax decks is to drag the game on longer than is typical is cEDH, 2-3 players targeting you with combat damage, even if their decks aren't built to win that way, can easily be enough to overwhelm your defenses. Because it's *really* hard to keep a draw the staxxes out the board, fights through interaction, has an efficient win, protects its win, AND has removal and/or thicc blockers for all threats
So, in my experience, this is another place politics (or simply proper threat assessment from opponents" can come into play. If combo deck A is beating your stax deck to death, you need to tell combo deck B and midrange deck C that, hey, if this guy swings out for lethal, he wins post-combat. And sometimes even tell they guy beating you, hey, if you drop me too low, if combo player B has removal on your final attack, he untaps, swings out to kill me, and combos off on his/her turn. Just having the experience at *losing* with your stax deck, and being able to communicate how that process unfolds, and use that to your advantage, if even for just a temporary reprieve, can really help pull out or at least keep you right in a tough game.
I've been trying to make Tymna / Sidar Bears beats for awhile now and I have a really hard time playing without blue in most cases I have to tutor for my hatebears and stax, and if i don't get them out early enough I can't stop anyone from doing anything. But Sidar does bring a ton of free evasion to the build for my 2/2s and such to swing in unimpeded, tough call overall.
I love STAX. I haven't played it a ton bc the few times I have, people get pissed and storm off. I've been on the end of stax and understand how they feel but I just love being on that end. I'm also the guy who likes to play land destruction. Haha
When he said that the groups eventually start to creep up in power I felt that. I powered my decks up because my friends were but I got more powerful and consistent with my decks that they didn't want to play now I have a grand or more costed decks with no one who wants to play with, but now I'm considering quitting magic and selling my decks to just play online with untap.
One of my playgroups disbanded today. Me and another playrr kept tweaking our decks over like 4 months. And there like 400-700 bucks now. All the only players basically just like never changed their decks or tried to get better. There was this massive fight because I force of willed someone's combo when I was tapped out. Never seen anyone rage quit like that. Dude had a full one melt down was cussing at me. Called me a "netdecker" lmao. Then the person who host the game said him and his gf got in an argument because of the game and their like legit having relationship issues now. All over magic lol
@@giantgrowth4204 I hate it when people try to get better and play better but other's refuse. I've spent such a long time learning magic just for my friends to be hard headed and refuse to learn
Join a discord or Patreon for some of your favorite creators. I’m on a couple always people playing games at all levels. Spelltable has really bridge the playgroup gap.
@@giantgrowth4204 don't worry they were having issues before this game probably, this was the catalyst that might have sparked it but there had to be tinder and lighter fluid already present for it to burn that hot.
Very interesting topic! Something I noticed (a bit off topic) is the way you pronounced “Chulane”. I’ve heard other content creators pronounce pronounce this name as “Tshoe-lane”. However, I quite like “Hullan” :) Is there any reason why you choose to pronounce him like this?
I came from a time where magic was playing through prison decks and then evolved into counter control then into heavy heavy combo , the rule was one person played magic and the other watched unless you could outplay, outbuild, out meta your opponent. Now it feels like everything you do is 55% at absolute best, just spew your cards out at curve and whoever draws land at the right time wins. Lets just flip a coin and call it a day
i like light stax for how it forces people to take different play patterns. but i dont enjoy cards like winter orb that simply prevent the game from being played at all. limited resources is interesting, no resources is boring. curious though if anyone has an opinion to share on why they like cards that turn off lands (blood moon comes to mind. hate that card)
in the right deck absolutely. Shuts down down top combos, breach combos, isochron combos and makes counterwars more difficult. Doesn't do much against Thoracle but hits a lot of common win lines pretty hard.
The problem with stax in my experience has been that the stax player doesn’t have a win strat in their deck and end up just stalling out the game. Every other players deck is slow but it’s not like they’re winning, since they don’t have any super strong cards compared to the rest of us. It’s just boring and and troll. I love hearing your experiences because it’s given me a knew perspective.
I play a “soft stax” deck that punishes players when not playing creatures. It works to punish players who don’t want to play fair magic. Other than that it’s not that bad. Stax can be fun for everyone if done right.
I just think it’s annoying when you are best player in the room, somebody just add stuff to target you, but themselves still can’t win. Build better deck to let yourself win, slow others but you can’t win doesn’t make sense.
Yes. Don't worry. This is coming to audio platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify soon!
Good! I am actually really happy with how frequently these are being posted
Google podcasts? :D
Nice...so it's more easy and less data consuming to listen to u while I drive to work 🤗
Can not find you on Spotify
I think a fun topic in the future would be what politics is like at a cEDH table. Some nuances that might be different than an EDH table. For beginners like myself
In CEDH with my pod it's usually establishing resources to deal with the player getting too far ahead. For Example, can I hit you with Ragavan/Tymna to gain more card draw to deal with the problem at hand. Casual and CEDH aren't much different despite CEDH doesn't really have spite plays
I try to describe my cedh stax deck as a Maze that I set up for the table. If they make it through the Maze, they win
@3:16 Stax as an archetype originally comes, not from Smokestacks, but T$4KS -> $T4KS (The 4,000$ Solution) from back in Vintage (Though it did play 4 of Smokestacks, in addition to the likes of Sphere of Resistance and Tanglewire).
Something to consider when talking about Stax is the weakness of just getting run over. Ideally, you have the most significant boardstate to prevent this, but it's always worth noting when you drop a stax piece, "can they just beat me to death?" Consider, Kennrith, Kraum, Najeela, even the likes of Urza Karnstruct or First Sliver- having something that's just big enough to defend yourself or able to dissuade just dying to simple attacks. On the flip side, if you have something that's just big enough to threaten life totals, you don't need to necessarily think about playing your normal wincon through stax; sometimes, you can just roll them over. Stax with how reliant on creatures it tends to be also tends to lack boardwipes, as they are so creature focused, which means that when one Stax deck gets board advantage over another, it's difficult for that player to be dislodged without the helpful opponent.
Joseph may be the best play by play voice in CEDH.
Just as a caveat to the origins of the Stax name: It doesn't derive from Smokestacks, but from a deck called $T4KS, which was shorthand for "four thousand dollar solution" because the cost of it at the time was 4k, because it ran multiple P9 cards.
There are multiple references to this online.
Thanks for the vid as ever 😁
As soon as I heard it I started yelling "No! No! It was a Vintage deck!"
@@Mercenary0712 it's a common misconception.
@@LTJ Oh I know, I'm just passionate about MtG's history
Also, for context, it was the $4k solution to Gro-A-Tog decks, which were dominating the meta after Psychatog was added to Miracle Gro lists (please correct me if I'm wrong).
P9 plus Workshop is a hefty sum
I absolutely love playing against stax, it cripples my playstyle but I love trying to work through them.
Also I think stax are needed in all levels of magic in some way. RIP Hullbreacher.
“Is only game, why have to be mad”. I like the little touches that make PWP fun to watch. Good podcast.
Thanks for the video!! I've been trying to get into cedh with a Daretti Stax deck I've built and this was really helpful!
My two favourite high-powered EDH channels in one video! Awesome
Esper sentinel has been welcomed to stax decks
Man. I wasn't a fan of this channel, but got really addict to it. So much that I'm building a Winota deck myself, though not full cEDH, as I don't want to include the KikiJic combo line. Going to focus on hate bears and big humans as beaters, which is more in line with my playgroup power lvl, and my style as well.
Hell yeah, hope it works out for ya
@@Kazz1187 it has. I've tested her already, and it's just awesome being able to win a table with a fast aggro deck
i have a similar deck, retains some of the stax pieces from snowball, but focusing really on combat damage, usually opponents concede though when Winota triggers 10+ :(
@@jbs6614 do you use anything to protect her?
Mine is starting to become a kill insight whenever she's in the table.
@@sylorknag yeah, currently using greaves, rebuff the wicked, blacksmith’s skill, brave the elements, boros charm. Agree with you that she is a removal magnet so it’s just spray and pray for me haha.
Really enjoyed this episode, and loved hearing from Joseph on his ideas around stax. I've been recently converted to a stax player myself, and I appreciate hearing about it from multiple perspectives. Now I need to make some edits to my list xD
I'm trying to fool around with Osgir stacks, great insight and ideas! Keep it up!
I always love seeing pwp, casually competitive, and play to win colab, totally independent of what they colab on. Any time i see one of those names, i know itll be a good video, seeing 2+ really just turns it up to 11 for me. I dont know if mtgmuddstah does anything at the competitive/semi competitive level, but i would love to see some sort of colab with him (andrew) as well.
More podcasts! As always great driving content!
Trinisphere anyone?
Stax, a summary: High ceiling, high learning curve.
Great podcast. I like you mentioned this topic. In casual games I have mono W angel tribal deck with Avacyn as commander. Without land destruction and mass removal effects. But with stax cards to slow everybody so I'm able to cast my big angels. But I build up stax to be more annoying than to prevent anybody from playing anything. So effects that causing creatures enter tapped. Taxing opponents that would like to attack me.
Prison decks in general are my favorite corner of magic. Always played blue when I was younger, just a natural progression when I think about it.
I have always described magic to new players as playing chess, except everyone gets to bring their own board.
My playgroup are all stax players
Stax is love
i honestly do not mind stax even in casual play. Maybe not every game, but breaking the puzzles (not solving it) is such fun.
I think people should just bring a bigger distinction between stax decks and prison decks which a lotta people call the same thing. Stax tries to get advtage over other players by playing around hate pieces, prison tries to just completely lock out the other players. Stax players look for fun by making everyone play the game in a different way, prison players do not understand the concept of fun and just enjoy suffering.
I really enjoy a well designed stax deck, one that is versatile and able to 'solve' a variety of decks. The exception is probably mono-W Stax, which is less tool box and more all out and has to accept limited card advantage and tutoring. At least W has some of the best stax effects, now that Hullbreacher is banned?
I think you guys put it pretty well, but I'd adjust the chess metaphor and argue that a good Stax deck is one that makes the game into chess. It shouldn't surprise you that my favourite effect in cEDH is Rule of Law, probably holds true for higher power magic, but it becomes a dud in more casual pods (where stax is probably not what you want anyways?). My cEDH game plan is actually rushing to get Rule of Law (or an analogue) out to make it harder for the faster decks to win. I've been thinking about Cursed Totem, because I largely ignore it (and with Rule out, that turns off almost every other deck as far as wining) and can easily win around it.
I think I've also heard people use Stax to mean 'Stasis and Tax', as in, a deck that used Stasis (or similar cards) and or Tax effects (Thorn of Amethyst) to make life very hard for opponents. People also include land hosers in here like Blood Moon or Contamination, and I include any effect that targets one or more players permanently that restricts them in some way, or taxes them. Thus, I also include Rule of Law effects, and many Hatebears as Stax effects. Smokestack afaik is actually not a true stax piece, it's a pox piece, because it just keeps shrinking the board, a pox effect. Is Pox Stax? If you feel it is, then Smokestack is also a Stax effect, but I don't think of Smallpox as a Stax effect, even if it does play a bit like one. Both feel pretty similar in eventual effect, and can play nice together for sure, but arguably they are separate archetypes.
I had to pull Stasis from my cEDH deck, it just was too clunky (requires an untap effect to function in my deck) and too often blew up in my face (or someone just wins around it because I don't have Kismet or Archon out, because Consultation can do that). I ended up keeping another sorta-combo that hurts me too in Back to Basics and Energy Flux because they tend to hurt other decks way, way more. They are rarely as good as a Rule of Law, but if I've already gotten Rule out, they are decent durdle plays if I expect someone to try to threaten me still. Just because you run a bazillion tutors and win cons doesn't mean you find them quickly, Stax can help make sure nobody else can win while you dig. A Stax piece has to effectively be asymmetrical in some form or it isn't good in your deck, but if it will hurt other decks *way* more than it hurts you, it might be fine to run. It's fine if you stub your toe, provided everyone else falls into a pit they can't get out of. It's a bit weird running Back to Basics on the understanding that you just run more basics than most other decks (yet you need non-basics to actually cast your Commander early), but some games I definitely cannot play Back to Basics and still function, so Stax requires you to be paying attention. Other games it is hilarious, and works like a charm.
Stax seems to be an incremental value strategy most of the time, where the 'value' is making it harder and harder for opponents to win, while not crippling you as much. Rule of Law doesn't cripple certain decks, so you may want a different effect in certain pods. Each piece you add worsens your opponent's situation, or even 'solves' their deck completely (like RiP often does), so Stax paradoxically loves lots of card draw and fast mana, though if you draw well, you might be fine with what might seem like an entirely passive hand. Stax doesn't have to be proactive early, which is a thing I love about it. I wildly prefer Staxing the board early vs playing Ponder effects most of the time. When I'm not Staxing, I'm probably removing whatever is still a problem, and if Rule is out, a lot of what you can still do is badly telegraphed. Still, I expect to get my early win attempts countered (I can't protect them with Rule out), but eventually people run out, or I get more protection out like Wandering Archaic (if I've got a mana lock, they might have access to a free FoW still) or Grand Abolisher to win. My deck embraces becoming the Archenemy, and tries to include ways to deal with it, because Stax can attract a lot of attention. You can't expect to have friends still after you resolve a late-game Dovescape, and turn off most of the decks hope of even interacting, unless they think 1/1 flyers are going to do work somehow.
One reason Stax remains an issue (has the stigma) is that people don't run a lot of interaction for non-creature stax pieces. Hatebears like Magistrate tend to be StP targets, but Winter Orb might stick around until someone draws a bounce spell. Some colours can't deal with Winter Orb effectively. It gets worse if someone can protect their pieces, either giving them Hexproof/Shroud or with countermagic, those games are painfully slow unless the Stax deck can force a win. I eventually put in a combo that couldn't be countered in case the game goes longer, mostly because Hullbreacher had to go and I wasn't sure if I wanted Dauthi Voidwalker (because I'm bad at cards maybe? hard to say) in. A non-counterable win con can be really useful, even if it's not the fastest. This can help prevent salt from building up, being able to actually close the game in a reasonable time frame. I will say, Stax games can have a lot of turns, but those turns tend to be very quick, so a 20 turn game might only take an extra 20 minutes if people can't do anything. I support scooping to hard locks, or situations where winning is mathematically laughable and I want to play a new game.
I think the difference between Armageddon and no plan and Derevi Stax is that Derevi has a plan to win after ruining everything. Armageddon can make it hard for everyone, including the guy who casts it. I run a combo that is definitely a bit too close to Armageddon, but it doesn't have to hurt me. Puzzle Lock can wheel away everyone's hand with a support card, giving them access to 1 card per turn, which they play at instant speed. This isn't a hard lock, since people could draw instant speed removal, but it's unpleasantly close to one. I have 2 decent ways to win after this, and can Necropotence, so it's not an issue for me, and I can even sit on a counter potentially (I run a few for this reason), at which point it is very hard to win against, but if none of my win cons remain, it's a very slow grind with creature damage to win things. If I play the cards wrong though, I can easily wheel away my own hand too and have someone draw interaction right after and perhaps lose because of it, so it's not a brainless combo. I think it's the saltiest thing the deck can do, which is saying something.
For all the homies looking for a blue 'Rule of law' - 'Arcane laboratory' is your friend 😉
I would love a video which went more in detail about the tree different types of stax pieces what works and what doesn't. For instance are Energy Flux and Pendrell Mists good cards.
I assume the former is better than the later since artifacts are more predominant than creatures. You could argue you probably just want to nuke all the artifacts (like with Melt Down) but Imagine there are many games you want some or even your own artifacts staying on the board. Is the taxation of the other players worth it. A card evaluation of stax pieces would be nice, especially in an open forum where more players gave their viewpoint.
Also, to slightly expand on what Joseph was saying when asked about how to pilot stax v stax when talking about trying to fly under the radar: often it can become where it is easier for an opponent's deck to remove you as a player rather than the stax pieces needed for them to go off. And I think Joseph was thinking about this without directly verbalizing it, but if your opponent is on, say, Tymna/Kraum, looking to Ad Naus/Breach/Thoracle, and you have double Rule of Law, darn good chance 4 points of flying (at the least) is coming your way every turn. And since the nature of Stax decks is to drag the game on longer than is typical is cEDH, 2-3 players targeting you with combat damage, even if their decks aren't built to win that way, can easily be enough to overwhelm your defenses. Because it's *really* hard to keep a draw the staxxes out the board, fights through interaction, has an efficient win, protects its win, AND has removal and/or thicc blockers for all threats
So, in my experience, this is another place politics (or simply proper threat assessment from opponents" can come into play. If combo deck A is beating your stax deck to death, you need to tell combo deck B and midrange deck C that, hey, if this guy swings out for lethal, he wins post-combat. And sometimes even tell they guy beating you, hey, if you drop me too low, if combo player B has removal on your final attack, he untaps, swings out to kill me, and combos off on his/her turn. Just having the experience at *losing* with your stax deck, and being able to communicate how that process unfolds, and use that to your advantage, if even for just a temporary reprieve, can really help pull out or at least keep you right in a tough game.
I've been trying to make Tymna / Sidar Bears beats for awhile now and I have a really hard time playing without blue in most cases I have to tutor for my hatebears and stax, and if i don't get them out early enough I can't stop anyone from doing anything. But Sidar does bring a ton of free evasion to the build for my 2/2s and such to swing in unimpeded, tough call overall.
I love STAX. I haven't played it a ton bc the few times I have, people get pissed and storm off. I've been on the end of stax and understand how they feel but I just love being on that end. I'm also the guy who likes to play land destruction. Haha
How do they storm off during stax?
@@wilfulbuckle13
You're hilarious. Lol
When he said that the groups eventually start to creep up in power I felt that. I powered my decks up because my friends were but I got more powerful and consistent with my decks that they didn't want to play now I have a grand or more costed decks with no one who wants to play with, but now I'm considering quitting magic and selling my decks to just play online with untap.
One of my playgroups disbanded today. Me and another playrr kept tweaking our decks over like 4 months. And there like 400-700 bucks now. All the only players basically just like never changed their decks or tried to get better. There was this massive fight because I force of willed someone's combo when I was tapped out. Never seen anyone rage quit like that. Dude had a full one melt down was cussing at me. Called me a "netdecker" lmao. Then the person who host the game said him and his gf got in an argument because of the game and their like legit having relationship issues now. All over magic lol
@@giantgrowth4204 I hate it when people try to get better and play better but other's refuse. I've spent such a long time learning magic just for my friends to be hard headed and refuse to learn
Join a discord or Patreon for some of your favorite creators. I’m on a couple always people playing games at all levels. Spelltable has really bridge the playgroup gap.
@@calebcolours2378 yeah i use untap a lot so i might just use that discord
@@giantgrowth4204 don't worry they were having issues before this game probably, this was the catalyst that might have sparked it but there had to be tinder and lighter fluid already present for it to burn that hot.
Very interesting topic! Something I noticed (a bit off topic) is the way you pronounced “Chulane”. I’ve heard other content creators pronounce pronounce this name as “Tshoe-lane”. However, I quite like “Hullan” :)
Is there any reason why you choose to pronounce him like this?
Phonetic for easier comprehension for our listening only audience
@@PlayingWithPowerMTG I see, thanks!
I came from a time where magic was playing through prison decks and then evolved into counter control then into heavy heavy combo , the rule was one person played magic and the other watched unless you could outplay, outbuild, out meta your opponent. Now it feels like everything you do is 55% at absolute best, just spew your cards out at curve and whoever draws land at the right time wins. Lets just flip a coin and call it a day
i like light stax for how it forces people to take different play patterns. but i dont enjoy cards like winter orb that simply prevent the game from being played at all. limited resources is interesting, no resources is boring.
curious though if anyone has an opinion to share on why they like cards that turn off lands (blood moon comes to mind. hate that card)
What are some good win-cons for Rule of Law Kenrith, outside of Dockside
Kenrith himself. Also things like combat and Kiki combo.
I've seen the Possibility Storm lock, but that locks you aswell right?
@@kinderoreo7857 With drannith it does not.
Reanimating razaketh the foulblooded
Awesome podcast although Stax doesn't get its name from Smokestack.
If you play CEDH just play torpor orb and rule of law effects and you'll be fine
such a shame that the foil arcane laboratory is so expensive :(
Also Drannith, Voidwalker, Opp Agent, Aven Mindsensor, and (RIP) Hullbreacher.
Do you think dampening sphere is good?
in the right deck absolutely. Shuts down down top combos, breach combos, isochron combos and makes counterwars more difficult. Doesn't do much against Thoracle but hits a lot of common win lines pretty hard.
I one time played with someone who did a balance like effect then got bored, scooped, and left.
The dislikes are from those who don't think Stax is the funnest thing to do in Commander
Stax is life 🌶🌶🌶
The problem with stax in my experience has been that the stax player doesn’t have a win strat in their deck and end up just stalling out the game. Every other players deck is slow but it’s not like they’re winning, since they don’t have any super strong cards compared to the rest of us. It’s just boring and and troll. I love hearing your experiences because it’s given me a knew perspective.
When's Mons? I want to hear him saying Raazzzaakettt and Jægånthä
I play a “soft stax” deck that punishes players when not playing creatures. It works to punish players who don’t want to play fair magic. Other than that it’s not that bad. Stax can be fun for everyone if done right.
Good podcast. Don’t hate on geddon
Those 3 people that really don't like stax...
Discard stax is the best
Is it Joseph or Harry Potter in disguise?
I just think it’s annoying when you are best player in the room, somebody just add stuff to target you, but themselves still can’t win. Build better deck to let yourself win, slow others but you can’t win doesn’t make sense.