Rise and Fall of the Cardassian Rebellion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2020
- What's up Lore Masters,
Let's discuss the Cardassian Rebellion in the Dominion War!
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In Gul Russot's defense, he was a former Minbari Warrior caste political fixer who formed Nightwatch.
A large blind spot of Dominion strategy was it’s disregard of solids. The myopic world view of the Changelings group mind set led them ignore the “one man can change the universe” possibilities of Dumar’s leadership and martyrdom tipping the balance of power on Cardassia.
Proof of this mind set is also shown in the nature of their followers. The short lived, no life but to live and die for the cause, “crunch all you want, we’ll make more” Jem Hardar, and the endless supply of never changing Vorta.
I just had a glass of Kanar with Damar! Hey, that rhymes!
Hey that rhines? Have we named a new runabout the U.s.s. Rhine?
@@dragonsword7370 damn Dragon Sword you really know how to show your ass not only did I spell it wrong but you spelled it the way that I spelled it wrong! Clean yourself up man!!!
The Cardasian actors have said that Kanar is actually awful. Basically colored corn syrup.
rhymes*
@@dragonsword7370 Is that a river somewhere?
*Julian:* Kira are you ready for your surgical disguise?
*Kira:* Yes, fine…just get it over with… looking like a Cardassian…how long will it last?
*Julian:* Until it's surgically removed, you could spend the rest of your life with it - which would be a _lot shorter_ if it could come off while you're in Cardassian territory.
[A Jem'Hadar soldier comes out of the surgical bay]
*Jem'Hadar Soldier:* Relax Major, I'm Lieutenant Commander Tur'vol from Starfleet Intelligence, I've already undergone the alteration.
*2nd Jem'Hadar soldier:* Yes, he is Vulcan to answer your question…[taps the side of his head] oh I'm full blooded Betazoid, Eigol Drustri. I was with the Betazoid resistance, so I've got current experience in this sort of thing - Jem'Hadar minds are very straightforward so mimicking their behaviour is quite simple when there are others around to get cues from.
*Julian:* Just remember, neither of you can cloak…
[Both Soldiers glance at each other, having a telepathic conversation].
*2nd Jem'Hadar Soldier:* We are both well aware of that, can I get my supply of stims for when I'm forced to stay awake as a Jem'Hadar, [to Kira] unlike Vulcans, I can't "naturally" stay awake for several days. And you're right of course, we'll be wearing hoods to cover our appearance before we go onto the Promenade, as will you.
I still reckon I should've been a Vorta.…
Kira to Damar: OHHHH HOW THE FATES HAVE TURNED YOU NAZI MUTHERBLEEEEEEEEP
A real-world example of why Damar needed to hear what Kira had to say, exactly as she said it. Working frontlines in disaster assistance means you will always be put under the direction of someone who looks at numbers and spreadsheets. They are simply incapable of putting a face to the suffering of a number in a report. However, putting it bluntly, "would you willingly put your mother, your son, your father or daughter through the same thing as what you're willing to do to that number on that piece of paper? There is NO difference between the two other than you know the faces of your family." That is what Kira was doing. Damar had to have that splash of cold reality thrown in his face. Otherwise, those numbers and the actions of the enemy would never penetrate Damars hard shell he would gain quickly after he grew accustomed to the news of the loss of his family. Yes, it's harsh, but in any situation where lives are in immediate danger, the person in charge has to understand more than just numbers on a report. It's the biggest reason new supervisors were given a tour by those that identified the dead and tagged them. You have to understand what inaction and hesitation on their part will cost in just lives alone.
I always felt the Cardassian Rebellion subplot was hugely underdeveloped. Seeing as to how the writers wanted DS9 to go on for one more season and the network said no this isn't too surprising. Kira did mention in that episode they took every precaution, which implies that includes breaking it up into independent cells. I suspect the rebellion would have lasted a lot longer if we got a season 8.
Well, now they can develop the storyline all they want. They have a real life example- Ukraine.
@@tatianalyulkin410 well they did join the "dominion" of our world ..and the reward is similar
NGL Kira in a starfleet uniform is one of the hottest things ever
You should call your channel 'plot reloaded'!
How dare you insult those engineers! They're responsible for creating starfleet's greatest weapon! The Gelato Maker!
Well, the Starfleet Corp of Engineers ARE the Miracle Workers after all, turning rocks in replicators and changing the laws of physics, because their captain needs warp power NOW!
The original gelato maker was just a large pot. Sea water ice around it and lemon, sugar, water inside. Just scrape the frosted buildup. No engineers required. Not even to design a pot
Reminder that no actions are too low or too brutal when it comes to dealing with the Dominion. Everything goes and all is fair when your oppenent is just as willing to either exterminate or enslave you.
How many other races you think the Dominion befriended and eventually took over their space... They did not understand the pridefulness of the cardassians and viewed them only as an asset
I'd say all of them until they got to the wormhole.
In any other part of the gamma quad, the jem'hadar putting the heel to a whole allied hegemony & race wouldn't be an issue. The Dominion would have loyalists cells armed and ready to take over in the midst of a dominion push to deploy troops to setup full Vorta control of the populace. Example executing the leaders and families to quell further rebellion... then either using a viral agent like that one planet on an episode, or using puppet rule and full authoritative control for the future. Depending on how important they're considered to the dominions interests.
In the alpha, they're forces were stretched thin. And then they started arsoning they're last fort. Not the wisest strategy.
@@dragonsword7370 I'd like to point out that the burning of Cardassia was ordered by the Female Changeling who had basically taken direct command of Dominion forces at this point and really didn't know what she was doing. After all, why WOULD a changeling need to know anything about politics or military matters? That is what they have the Vorta for. Add to that, the changeling mindset and attitude towards solids. The changelings have fully convinced themselves that solids are just evil and spiteful and only want to kill changelings, because they are just jealous, jealous of how superior changelings are. As a result, when the Cardassians rebel against the Dominion, she doesn't see it as a result of them having exploited and humiliated the Cardassian people, of using them as cannon fodder, giving away their worlds to their new favorites the Breen. She only sees it as Solids, turning on Changelings out of sheer spite, because that is the only way she can see things, in terms of Solid VS Changelings in an eternal deathmatch of pure spite and hate.
the dominion has requested you join its Facebook group!
@@weldonwin She was also dying and possibly massively sleep deprived. As she would be unable to go into a liquid state. So in my opinion she was probably loosing her mind and irrational.
“She mainly did this, because she’s a bi-!”
I actuaLOL’d! 🤣🤣🤣
It was a cheap shot and demeans an actually well written scene but I couldn’t resist the joke
Lore Reloaded It probably was the biggest Kira burn of the whole series. But yeah, worth the joke!
@Brad Grant I mean she’s grown up as a rebel. But she absolutely has a cause; and that cause is the Bajoran people - she doesn’t want to have them needlessly told what to do by Starfleet or the Federation, any more than she wanted them ordered around by the Cardassians.
Serving on a Federation ship must be _weird._ I mean, most planets seem to have populations in the thousands, but most starships have crews in the hundreds or thousands.
Then we also see fleets numbering anywhere from dozens to thousands of ships, many of which get badly mauled, with 50% losses being a decent score for the winner - not to mention the planets and space stations that see their own bloodbaths.
The races of the Alpha Quadrant may be *_on the brink of extinction_* after the Dominion War.
"Population in the thousands" most planets would have at least millions with many having many Billion people on them and Starfleet dosent has thousands of ships at best hundreds. They consider 36 ships of war to be a big fleet.
Most planets in the Federation are small colonies. There are a number of planets with larger populations in the millions or even billions, but most of those are the homeworlds of the member races. Most colony worlds seem to have only one or two primary cities with populations of less than a million, sometimes only a few hundred. That's what their dialogue says anyway; otherwise I'd agree with you, because those numbers are laughably small. I guess it boils down to the fact that Star Trek writers can't usually math very well.
Still, it's what they say, so it's what we have to go on. As far as fleets go, some estimates use the Naval Construction Contract registry number as a proxy for how many Federation starships there are - so, Voyager's NCC 74656 suggests that when it was commissioned, the Federation had contracted for more than seventy thousand ships in its history, not counting lettered variants like the various Starships _Enterprise._ Obviously, many ships had been destroyed or decommissioned by that point, but until the Borg and Dominion started kicking in Starfleet's teeth, even designs going on a century old like the _Excelsior_ and _Miranda_ classes still commonly served in various patrol and even front-line capacities. The Federation almost certainly had more than ten thousand ships in service when the Dominion showed up; I'm inclind to think between twenty and thirty thousand ships, all told.
When Starfleet started getting desperate and sending anything that could fly and carry a phaser out to hold the line against the Jem'Hadar (two years after Voyager vanished), that number of starship assignments almost certainly more than doubled. Most of these rapidly-deployed ships still smelled of mothballs or were junker kit-bashes held together with spot-welds and happy thoughts, but they had crews and they could fight.
Briefly.
And once those defenders had been wiped out, then we get into the civilian butcher's bill, inflicted by Dominion orbital bombardments or ground-side death squads. The Founders thought _all_ Alpha Quadrant solids were vermin to be cleaned out, after all, and with Starfleet largely unable to stop them in space, the concept of a "civilian noncombatant" became largely meaningless.
Hay I loved that moment between Kira demar and Garak it’s so good.
I understand what you’re saying about less antagonistic allies, but you also run into the Cousin Oliver Problem. Do you choose someone from the existing cast to fill a role that maybe they don’t fit? Or do you bring in a new character purpose built for the role, a “Cousin Oliver.” If you’re not going to bring someone new in I can’t think of two series regulars better suited. As you said in your last video the Cardassians had become the Bajorans. To turn your nose up at a ridged nose is foolish at best.
Seriously, how many people in the entire Federation would have better experience and contacts for waging guerilla war and tactical espionage against an occupied Cardassia than Garak, Kira, and Odo? Garak and Odo had contacts within the Cardiassian government and skillsets designed for espionage, and Kira had more experience in guerilla warfare than perhaps anyone else in the entire federation. Perhaps a different Bajoran officer with less personal beef against Damar would have been better, but given her position I think it's pretty clear that Kira was one of the most well respected and skilled officers in the Bajoran military and to send someone less would have been a disservice. There's a lot of cases in Star Trek where they send main cast characters because they want to use established characters, but in this case there are very compelling arguments for these three being literally the best choices in the entirety of the Federation for this job.
Star Trek numbers, multiply population by 10 million and divide ship numbers by 10.
Warp fact plot engage!
I love 'plot town', it makes following stories like these less stressful. ^^ or more frustrating depending on how you look at it. >
no views, one like. This is some heavy temporal interference.
Give it a bit, it’ll get there.
Set a course for Cardassia plot speed!
Well I mean if the writers wanted to Voyager could beat any other Federation ship to Cardassia and then end up back in Delta Quadrant.
It’s interesting that Demar’s 2nd played Naroon from B5. Kira’s character arc is very similar to that of Naroon’s.
Except Neroon actually showed he had a sense of honor in the end, rather than being a two dimensional asshole
Kira knows exactly when to re-stomp the groin. Something a lot of Federation types don't know.
I always thought that the ship numbers counted the Jem Hadar fighters. Which were something smaller than Defiant but larger than a Peregrine class.
Jem'Hadar fighters are the Bug-Ships. And yeah, the Dominion do just churn them out in vast numbers, along with their disposable Jem'Hadar crews
Hey, war sucks unless you can survive, get promoted, and have more medals pinned to your uniform.
F@#k I love this series. Keep up the awesome work!
Starfleet citizens with experience in guerrilla warfare zero; Bajorans with experience many; Bajorans with guerrilla experience working directly with the Federation 1. In the end it was either Kira or what was left of the Marquis.
Quark should have said I just had a bottle of Damar with Kanar!
For Cardassia!!!
One of Damars biggest tactical mistake. was to identify where his attacks came from. because what it did it allow for them to hunt them down and Destroy them.
was Cardassian technology ever upgraded by the dominion? or was it deliberately kept as poor as it was?
To state that Damar, could not wage a guerrilla / terrorist campaign is erroneous! Don't forget that he was Dukat's right hand aboard the the captured Bird of Prey. Therefore he had a lot of experience in unconventional warfare. Nevertheless sending Colonel Kira to assist the Cardassian resistance was a good decision!
It's just occurred to me... where were the Andorians during the Dominion War?
Plotspeed :D
Ten officers is too large a group. Three- five at the most.
In another video, you made various leader equate to real life people for just reference purposes. I forgot who you compared Dumar to, but I said Dumar is like Moses. He leads a conquered people away from his oppressors yet was denied entry into the promised land. I know the Jews travelled out of Egypt and the Cardassians did not leave Cardassia, but many - not all - ideas of the two have parallels.
I don’t think I’ve ever done that
@@LoreReloaded It wasn't a full analysis, I think it was more a passing comment on your part. The only reason I remember anything about it is because I made my "Dumar is more like Moses" comment. For the life of me, I can't recall who you said Dumar is like.
By the way, like you, I also wondered why they used Kira for this assignment (I know, it's television and she's a main character). She and Dumar haven't had the best of relations. This present situation is tantamount to Cardassia's extinction so it supersedes past hostilities. But in reality, I wouldn't be surprised if one took a shot at the other. Of course, the writers wound have never allowed that
@@daydreamer8662 Oh maybe? I don't remember that.. it's definetly possible. It's been a while since i did the video so i am not super up to date on it. Glad you enjoy the stuff.. Star trek has always had the issue of sending main characters out when really specialists make more sense - i'm with ya there.
@@LoreReloaded Case in point: the 1998 movie Armageddon. Wouldn't it have been easier to train actual astronauts to plant mines than to train miners to fly a space vessel?
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, do you think the Cardassians got what they deserved by the end of the series? From TNG's introduction of them to their downfall by the end of DS9, they dropped a long way. Of the power groups in the Alpha/Beta Quadrants, the Cardassians probably lost the most. Was it warranted? I say yes considering they had choices and they choose poorly. How do you feel about Dumar not surviving? Was it justice for killing Zayell? I know they're not related, but does anyone forgive him for her murder? It wasn't stated, nor important to us, but who heads the Cardassian Empire no with no elected leaders, the Obsidian Order is dead, and lost of vast territories?
Former Alcoholic is a misnomer. There is no cure for alcoholism. Youre either recovering or not.
Mmhmm
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Damn it LOL