That Wavetek is just perfect for that application! I think I may have found a modern handheld multimeter that can do the same....hope to have it here in a week or so. Look forward to seeing your results.
This kind of plate is called diamond-plate. It is used for constructing steps and other places on vehicles where people will stand, especially with water present. The bumps provide friction to prevent feet from slipping as they would on smooth plate. For the battering-clamping screws, you could thread them into the screw-cutting holes on a pair of terminal crimping pliers and shear them off so that there is no length protruding from the nuts for a more finished appearance.
This is a nice project. Having said that, it's not for wind and solar (not practically). It's for wind and solar -to power a bicycle-. Think about power density - what you have is a very expensive, but very power dense device - which means it is truly more suitable to deliver power, in an environment - where weight is an issue- . A modern day NiFE battery, offering 40-60 years of service, it's design over 100 years old, is a wind solar battery. Because weight doesn't matter, and life span does!
The same problem exists with NiFe. I have an original 1948 Edison. It still has a capacity of around 178 A/h, was sold as a 200. Given that it was in a railway switch, it probably has seen approximately 40,000 cycles minimum. It is an excellent battery. It will self discharge to 60% over 32 days, but gets solar every day. Still stands at 1.2V. 64 years later and was in service use for 45 years. It saw -20C every winter. But are the Chinese modern knockoffs as good?
I agree it is a very interesting topic. I'll be watching for your results. I can see it as an augmentation, and definitely great for limited size / direct applications, like for example a single light on the end of a garage / solar powered. Have you read the article / circuit, posted in EE mag re: Lithium MPPT? It is interesting and looks like a great option, but, it is scaled down. Maybe you can scale such a thing up. BQ24650 is another product.
Dissimilar metal connections (brass/copper on aluminum, etc.) should not pose a problem if they are kept tight (to keep out air and dry. However, if you want to make sure, dab on some NO-OX-ID grease by Sanchem (or equivalent) that is used for joining aluminum wires in electrical wiring, etc. and prevents aluminum oxide from forming. You can get it at electrical supply houses.
Great video as usual. Do you have one of a charge/ discharge capacity versus voltage as you did with the GBS batteries? . I have a tip for you to control the metal "saw dust" while drilling holes. Use a vacuum to suck up the dust as it is generated from the drilling. Just put the nozzle right next to the hole and capture the dust the whole time you are drilling.
Alan Bothe Contacts after more than 3 years are as good as when where installed. The PCB was just used as spacer and will not be able to influence the contact pressure.
I might use your idea when my lead-acid batteries wear out. I had to water fill and equalize them today and every six months. Lead-acid batteries last for more years if you only do 50% discharge/recharge. Can yours do 100% discharge/recharge with no life impairment? You could cut that metal with a hand held circular saw in 60 seconds or less with a metal cutting blade. All the hardware stores carry them. I think they are less than $10.
While I am in disagreement with you, I will watch closely as your project unfolds. I hope you do prove me very wrong, actually. Your clever, it wouldn't surprise me much. Cheers. Great channel.
Depends on the type of fault but the pack is only as good as the worst cell. Normally you do not have a cell fail and the difference between cells are in the order of one or two percent. Anyway if one cell fails and you can not replace that cell you will need to remove the bad cell. An lead acid 24V battery works in the range of 22V to 28.8V and can be replaced with 8cell LiFePO4 with the same exact voltage range. A DC-DC converter will have limited use maybe on low power devices.
Any other way, means one of three things: either 1. your rich, and can afford the elite system, and money doesn't matter, you just get the best, or 2. You salvage, recondition, and create a value-added system that actually runs appliances and gets you off grid, or 3. You have a dinky little high tech system that is novel, but you're stuck on the grid, essentially. Many cannot afford #1, and won't settle, for #3. THAT is the reality.
I still use propane in my fridges simply because if I used solar, it would require so much energy to keep the deep freeze and fridge running, I'd have too little leftover. But I only have 1800 watts total alternative energy in. 6 kilowatts is more typical. My bank is 1000 amp hours, but 3 would be nicer.
Already did build a larger pack with this same type of cells that power my offgrid house is a 8s10p pack and I designed a solar BMS for them and also designed a Digital MPPT for heating applications so my house is now 100% powered with solar PV both electricity and heating. Had not had much time for youtube videos but you can see here the SBMS electrodacus.com/ and I have a new forum since google+ is no longer available electrodacus.com/solarforum.html
if it was, people would be doing it more often. Contact any alt energy contractor, what will he set you up with? Durable lead acid or NiFE. The technology isn't perfect, but it is far from being replaced by Lithium. Ask a pro.
The real problem lies within the top charge. With a lithium battery you cannot effectively "trickle charge". You need to reach a certain voltage, and then maintain that voltage (for example 4.2 in some cases) and then monitor the current. When the current reaches a drop, charging is terminated. The Li-ion chemistry cannot accept an overcharge without causing damage to the cell, possibly plating out lithium metal and becoming hazardous. For this reason the lithium battery ... ...
Batteries only hold the energy, they do not collect it. One needs to save as much as possible on batteries, while one obtains the power input. There is no justification in a $15,000 battery bank, until you have the collection to warrant it. To afford the collection, you save money on the batteries. Even if that means with having less power to work with. It's not all watt hour math.
Just wondering how the aluminium/brass has held up, or did you go with an alternative method to join them later on? Whats max amp draw you use from these cells? any updates on this pack?
@@electrodacus thnx I have some old a123 20ahr tried to solder to the aluminium but never stuck properly, am going to use copper nails as rails and put tiny tiny screws in them ( cut the head and point off the nails of course), two nails along each side of aluminium tab with 3 screws to join
@@namenotshown9277 Do not use copper as that will react with aluminium. Use tin or zic plated parts. On the larger battery that is an 8s 10p I used tin plated aluminium buss bars and connected with zinc plated steel screws.
What matter is the REAL cost, not the estimated value of buying everything brand new. If we all had to spend 30,000 minimum to get started, none of us would, and that's why few do. What you see out there... is people doing what I do. Making it work, some way, some how, with a quarter of that amount spent.
If I am looking at this correctly, your battery is worth about $300 for 20 amp hours. To obtain, whta I have, a 1000 amp hour bank, would then cost me $15,000. My bank costed nothing, because I got my T-105's used and reconditioned them, from golf courses. I can run 3000 watt inverters on it. And therefore do ACTUAL work, i.e. washing machines, refrigerators. With 20 amp hours, solar is a novelty, not a working machine. 15 grand, is 15 grand... money for 7 k/w panels. Alt energy is about saving.
is not suitable for solar because you have several considerations: #1 The sun will not always behave as you wish. #2 You cannot guarantee current from the sun exactly when you want it there #3 when you gang several batteries together, and the individual cells age, their differed performance level will affect the network in such a way that all things are no longer even. The only way to guarantee use would be to have a different storage (think infinite power supply) and then charge from that.
You could attach a 110vac inverter to your battery and do the noisy cutting in your neighbourhood park, while wearing a ski mask, and hopping onto a getaway bicycle. I'm just kidding. hahaha I had a neighbour squeal on me, when I was putting up solar panels without a permit. It cost me $1000 and 40 hours of my time to measure and draw my attic roof rafters for an engineer to stamp approval for weight and wind.
the primary is a motor of 10 ph to 7.5 to three-phase consumer kwtts 1700rpm cranking amps to 30 and 8 working with secondary output in 3 lines or 2 140vca 230VAC to 10 amoperios would double as the 2.9-kwtts. as prueva home, I have to move 5.8kwtts working with 4 hp pumps. smoothly if WTTS consumed 750 input and produces more output 3kwtts I fix it free with a sistematiado but I want more of arrmarlo comuun seek a solution in the primary or the batteries are better together recueren
So the cells on this battery cost $30 X 8 = $240? How much for the rest, for a total cost of ... what? Cheaper than I thought. The problem with your math (which is correct) is that you are not accounting for desulphation processes. I have 20 T105's, used, that I have reconditioned to nearly new (85%). Li-ION cannot be desulphated. Most battery (acid types) die due to sulphation not corrosion. My 1000 A/h 12V system cost -nothing-. So they are much more economical ways.
furthermore, in a solar system your inverter is drawing from the batteries, as they are being charged, so any elaborate charge controller system for a large lithium bank will be defeated by you deciding to run your washing machine, for example. Living on solar power is not about perfectly tuning a charge system, letting it complete, then using the energy stored. quite the contrary, it is all about using and abusing batteries unless you can afford two banks. In short, Lithium is unsuitable.
ing a greeting., we are in cancun mexico q roo in the Mexican Caribbean friend and took a few years working on the development of good generators, to work on engines over 15hp force with power over 11.5kwts., what it grams lifting of the motor voltages for sustenar work but we deacargan the batreias of 17 plates at either 12 Vdc or gel lead accido 48VDC with a bank reinforcement of this we solve the starting and permancia of 15 amps nesecito input to have the 440vca with 20 amps output
yo he estado trabajando en un planta sustentable, con mis generadores de sistema de jaula de ardilla para soluciones como son la sustentación, de un casa con todo los servicios, la llevamos con motores eléctricos he inversores de 9000 wtts, para la sustentación de 120 y 230vca con 50 a100 amperios., todo exentamente pero quiero cambiar las baterías de gel de 37 placas que es a48vcc contra ultra capacitares y aprovechas a lo maximo el generdor
Sadly, as we all know, the lithium battery, on the other hand, is not all that hard to screw up. Anyone who has owned a laptop knows... the math doesn't mean a damn thing unless you treat the battery EXACTLY as prescribed. Guess what, solar energy, and homes needs could not possibly disobey this paradigm in a worse manner.
no no, I have a system of a motor of 10 hp to 7.5 kwtts. working as a driver. a three-phase 230VAC. against generators from time 130vca 2.9kwtts force of trabjo in herrminetas ing., there is autonomy but it consumes more than 30 cranking amps, and more than 7.8 amps working with a bank 225mf a360vca, 115mf boot and work. tengo.3 output stages 140vca private funded with 10 amps but I nesecito a exseso benzathine the primary amperes. is only a prototype and I drive to my patents 75.kwtts domestic
This is not realistic and anybody who lives off solar energy realizes this; all too well. We need energy, when we need it, and that is the reality. We don't wait for our food to remain cold, while the sun shines. We don't run lights out 100 ft or more on DC. Lithium batteries are VERY particular as to how they are charged, and it is a well written up topic. There are very good reasons lithium are not used. Once you build a +500A/h bank, you will see. You'll have large obstacles.
Of course you can have a charge system that manages the charging perfectly for lithium, oh, if only the sun would behave! And meanwhile you want energy? NiFE could care less. Drain it beyond belief, overcharge it. Just add more water. It is nearly indestructable and WILL be the last battery you buy, if you are over 45 years of age, guaranteed.
generators have 7 years making several patents and have munchos projects., in the process in 4 continetes including the USA, and we ask aninguno money but intregrar a better life and that is not called scam ing. working together is called thanks., and excuse me just ask a simple query hera. money is not everything in life greetings
Lithium batteries prefer a continous and scheduled discharge, and then a full recharge. Buy a device like camcorder and it even will say"" Remove battery when not in use. In reality solar energy use is like this: partial charge, full drain, max charge, half drain, full charge, no charge... i.e. no rhyme, no reason, no rhythm... lithium does not like this type of use. NiFE could care less. There are many elements u are missing.
REGI, el motor / generador es una tecnología antigua han de ser sólo bajas eficiencias. Mejor aprender, sistemas de inversores, se puede aprender aquí en la Internet. Usted va a gustar. Buena suerte.
So what is "as prescribed", then? Don't charge it.. and drain it, at the same time. EXACTLY what solar does. Solution? Two separate banks. Great. 30k in batteries now. Lithium is NOT the answer, in a REAL alt energy home. only as a novel approach, where u can baby your batteries.
That Wavetek is just perfect for that application! I think I may have found a modern handheld multimeter that can do the same....hope to have it here in a week or so.
Look forward to seeing your results.
This kind of plate is called diamond-plate. It is used for constructing steps and other places on vehicles where people will stand, especially with water present. The bumps provide friction to prevent feet from slipping as they would on smooth plate.
For the battering-clamping screws, you could thread them into the screw-cutting holes on a pair of terminal crimping pliers and shear them off so that there is no length protruding from the nuts for a more finished appearance.
This is a nice project. Having said that, it's not for wind and solar (not practically). It's for wind and solar -to power a bicycle-. Think about power density - what you have is a very expensive, but very power dense device - which means it is truly more suitable to deliver power, in an environment - where weight is an issue- . A modern day NiFE battery, offering 40-60 years of service, it's design over 100 years old, is a wind solar battery. Because weight doesn't matter, and life span does!
Excellent work, really looking forward to the review.
The same problem exists with NiFe. I have an original 1948 Edison. It still has a capacity of around 178 A/h, was sold as a 200. Given that it was in a railway switch, it probably has seen approximately 40,000 cycles minimum. It is an excellent battery. It will self discharge to 60% over 32 days, but gets solar every day. Still stands at 1.2V. 64 years later and was in service use for 45 years. It saw -20C every winter. But are the Chinese modern knockoffs as good?
I agree it is a very interesting topic. I'll be watching for your results. I can see it as an augmentation, and definitely great for limited size / direct applications, like for example a single light on the end of a garage / solar powered. Have you read the article / circuit, posted in EE mag re: Lithium MPPT? It is interesting and looks like a great option, but, it is scaled down. Maybe you can scale such a thing up. BQ24650 is another product.
Dissimilar metal connections (brass/copper on aluminum, etc.) should not pose a problem if they are kept tight (to keep out air and dry. However, if you want to make sure, dab on some NO-OX-ID grease by Sanchem (or equivalent) that is used for joining aluminum wires in electrical wiring, etc. and prevents aluminum oxide from forming. You can get it at electrical supply houses.
Great video as usual. Do you have one of a charge/ discharge capacity versus voltage as you did with the GBS batteries?
.
I have a tip for you to control the metal "saw dust" while drilling holes. Use a vacuum to suck up the dust as it is generated from the drilling. Just put the nozzle right next to the hole and capture the dust the whole time you are drilling.
Good to see the use of spring washer to allow for aging of PCB
Alan Bothe Contacts after more than 3 years are as good as when where installed. The PCB was just used as spacer and will not be able to influence the contact pressure.
I might use your idea when my lead-acid batteries wear out. I had to water fill and equalize them today and every six months.
Lead-acid batteries last for more years if you only do 50% discharge/recharge. Can yours do 100% discharge/recharge with no life impairment?
You could cut that metal with a hand held circular saw in 60 seconds or less with a metal cutting blade. All the hardware stores carry them. I think they are less than $10.
While I am in disagreement with you, I will watch closely as your project unfolds. I hope you do prove me very wrong, actually. Your clever, it wouldn't surprise me much. Cheers. Great channel.
Depends on the type of fault but the pack is only as good as the worst cell.
Normally you do not have a cell fail and the difference between cells are in the order of one or two percent.
Anyway if one cell fails and you can not replace that cell you will need to remove the bad cell.
An lead acid 24V battery works in the range of 22V to 28.8V and can be replaced with 8cell LiFePO4 with the same exact voltage range.
A DC-DC converter will have limited use maybe on low power devices.
Any other way, means one of three things: either 1. your rich, and can afford the elite system, and money doesn't matter, you just get the best, or 2. You salvage, recondition, and create a value-added system that actually runs appliances and gets you off grid, or 3. You have a dinky little high tech system that is novel, but you're stuck on the grid, essentially. Many cannot afford #1, and won't settle, for #3. THAT is the reality.
I still use propane in my fridges simply because if I used solar, it would require so much energy to keep the deep freeze and fridge running, I'd have too little leftover. But I only have 1800 watts total alternative energy in. 6 kilowatts is more typical. My bank is 1000 amp hours, but 3 would be nicer.
That looks amazing. I would like to have several of those for my solar system. What was the cost?
Hope you move soon build more excellent battery packs. So Cool
Already did build a larger pack with this same type of cells that power my offgrid house is a 8s10p pack and I designed a solar BMS for them and also designed a Digital MPPT for heating applications so my house is now 100% powered with solar PV both electricity and heating. Had not had much time for youtube videos but you can see here the SBMS electrodacus.com/ and I have a new forum since google+ is no longer available electrodacus.com/solarforum.html
if it was, people would be doing it more often. Contact any alt energy contractor, what will he set you up with? Durable lead acid or NiFE. The technology isn't perfect, but it is far from being replaced by Lithium. Ask a pro.
The real problem lies within the top charge. With a lithium battery you cannot effectively "trickle charge". You need to reach a certain voltage, and then maintain that voltage (for example 4.2 in some cases) and then monitor the current. When the current reaches a drop, charging is terminated. The Li-ion chemistry cannot accept an overcharge without causing damage to the cell, possibly plating out lithium metal and becoming hazardous. For this reason the lithium battery ... ...
Great video, where did you buy the cells ?
diamond plate is harder and probably thicker than what you used before. plasma cutter or aircraft quality tin snips. would be best.
A iesit super tare, banuiesc ca merge de folosit la un scuter electric :)
Ready good video, ready impressed with what you have done.
Batteries only hold the energy, they do not collect it. One needs to save as much as possible on batteries, while one obtains the power input. There is no justification in a $15,000 battery bank, until you have the collection to warrant it. To afford the collection, you save money on the batteries. Even if that means with having less power to work with. It's not all watt hour math.
Just wondering how the aluminium/brass has held up, or did you go with an alternative method to join them later on? Whats max amp draw you use from these cells?
any updates on this pack?
There are no problem. I still use that battery as it is.
@@electrodacus thnx I have some old a123 20ahr tried to solder to the aluminium but never stuck properly, am going to use copper nails as rails and put tiny tiny screws in them ( cut the head and point off the nails of course), two nails along each side of aluminium tab with 3 screws to join
@@namenotshown9277 Do not use copper as that will react with aluminium. Use tin or zic plated parts. On the larger battery that is an 8s 10p I used tin plated aluminium buss bars and connected with zinc plated steel screws.
@@electrodacus thankyou for that information, what about nickel plated?
@@namenotshown9277 Yes that will also work.
What matter is the REAL cost, not the estimated value of buying everything brand new. If we all had to spend 30,000 minimum to get started, none of us would, and that's why few do. What you see out there... is people doing what I do. Making it work, some way, some how, with a quarter of that amount spent.
If I am looking at this correctly, your battery is worth about $300 for 20 amp hours. To obtain, whta I have, a 1000 amp hour bank, would then cost me $15,000. My bank costed nothing, because I got my T-105's used and reconditioned them, from golf courses. I can run 3000 watt inverters on it. And therefore do ACTUAL work, i.e. washing machines, refrigerators. With 20 amp hours, solar is a novelty, not a working machine. 15 grand, is 15 grand... money for 7 k/w panels. Alt energy is about saving.
is not suitable for solar because you have several considerations: #1 The sun will not always behave as you wish. #2 You cannot guarantee current from the sun exactly when you want it there #3 when you gang several batteries together, and the individual cells age, their differed performance level will affect the network in such a way that all things are no longer even. The only way to guarantee use would be to have a different storage (think infinite power supply) and then charge from that.
You could attach a 110vac inverter to your battery and do the noisy cutting in your neighbourhood park, while wearing a ski mask, and hopping onto a getaway bicycle.
I'm just kidding. hahaha
I had a neighbour squeal on me, when I was putting up solar panels without a permit.
It cost me $1000 and 40 hours of my time to measure and draw my attic roof rafters for an engineer to stamp approval for weight and wind.
I love your voice.
the primary is a motor of 10 ph to 7.5 to three-phase consumer kwtts 1700rpm cranking amps to 30 and 8 working with secondary output in 3 lines or 2 140vca 230VAC to 10 amoperios would double as the 2.9-kwtts. as prueva home, I have to move 5.8kwtts working with 4 hp pumps. smoothly if WTTS consumed 750 input and produces more output 3kwtts I fix it free with a sistematiado but I want more of arrmarlo comuun seek a solution in the primary or the batteries are better together recueren
So the cells on this battery cost $30 X 8 = $240? How much for the rest, for a total cost of ... what? Cheaper than I thought. The problem with your math (which is correct) is that you are not accounting for desulphation processes. I have 20 T105's, used, that I have reconditioned to nearly new (85%). Li-ION cannot be desulphated. Most battery (acid types) die due to sulphation not corrosion. My 1000 A/h 12V system cost -nothing-. So they are much more economical ways.
furthermore, in a solar system your inverter is drawing from the batteries, as they are being charged, so any elaborate charge controller system for a large lithium bank will be defeated by you deciding to run your washing machine, for example. Living on solar power is not about perfectly tuning a charge system, letting it complete, then using the energy stored. quite the contrary, it is all about using and abusing batteries unless you can afford two banks. In short, Lithium is unsuitable.
P.s> I meant 4000 cycles not 40K
super nice video !!!!
Thanks. There is also a two part review about this battery on my channel if you are interested.
you are one awesome dude
ing a greeting., we are in cancun mexico q roo in the Mexican Caribbean friend and took a few years working on the development of good generators, to work on engines over 15hp force with power over 11.5kwts., what it grams lifting of the motor voltages for sustenar work but we deacargan the batreias of 17 plates at either 12 Vdc or gel lead accido 48VDC with a bank reinforcement of this we solve the starting and permancia of 15 amps nesecito input to have the 440vca with 20 amps output
wow....very cool
yo he estado trabajando en un planta sustentable, con mis generadores de sistema de jaula de ardilla para soluciones como son la sustentación, de un casa con todo los servicios, la llevamos con motores eléctricos he inversores de 9000 wtts, para la sustentación de 120 y 230vca con 50 a100 amperios., todo exentamente pero quiero cambiar las baterías de gel de 37 placas que es a48vcc contra ultra capacitares y aprovechas a lo maximo el generdor
Thanks
Sadly, as we all know, the lithium battery, on the other hand, is not all that hard to screw up. Anyone who has owned a laptop knows... the math doesn't mean a damn thing unless you treat the battery EXACTLY as prescribed. Guess what, solar energy, and homes needs could not possibly disobey this paradigm in a worse manner.
its called aluminium treadplate
allready subscribed :D
no no, I have a system of a motor of 10 hp to 7.5 kwtts. working as a driver. a three-phase 230VAC. against generators from time 130vca 2.9kwtts force of trabjo in herrminetas ing., there is autonomy but it consumes more than 30 cranking amps, and more than 7.8 amps working with a bank 225mf a360vca, 115mf boot and work. tengo.3 output stages 140vca private funded with 10 amps but I nesecito a exseso benzathine the primary amperes. is only a prototype and I drive to my patents 75.kwtts domestic
This is not realistic and anybody who lives off solar energy realizes this; all too well. We need energy, when we need it, and that is the reality. We don't wait for our food to remain cold, while the sun shines. We don't run lights out 100 ft or more on DC. Lithium batteries are VERY particular as to how they are charged, and it is a well written up topic. There are very good reasons lithium are not used. Once you build a +500A/h bank, you will see. You'll have large obstacles.
Of course you can have a charge system that manages the charging perfectly for lithium, oh, if only the sun would behave! And meanwhile you want energy? NiFE could care less. Drain it beyond belief, overcharge it. Just add more water. It is nearly indestructable and WILL be the last battery you buy, if you are over 45 years of age, guaranteed.
generators have 7 years making several patents and have munchos projects., in the process in 4 continetes including the USA, and we ask aninguno money but intregrar a better life and that is not called scam ing. working together is called thanks., and excuse me just ask a simple query hera. money is not everything in life greetings
Lithium batteries prefer a continous and scheduled discharge, and then a full recharge. Buy a device like camcorder and it even will say"" Remove battery when not in use. In reality solar energy use is like this: partial charge, full drain, max charge, half drain, full charge, no charge... i.e. no rhyme, no reason, no rhythm... lithium does not like this type of use. NiFE could care less. There are many elements u are missing.
Dude, be careful of what you order online from anywhere, China or USA. Sometimes the products are factory rejects or reconditioned.
REGI, el motor / generador es una tecnología antigua han de ser sólo bajas eficiencias.
Mejor aprender, sistemas de inversores, se puede aprender aquí en la Internet. Usted va a gustar. Buena suerte.
Your theories work, in math.. but practical speaking for the true off-gridder, they are unrealistic.
So what is "as prescribed", then? Don't charge it.. and drain it, at the same time. EXACTLY what solar does. Solution? Two separate banks. Great. 30k in batteries now. Lithium is NOT the answer, in a REAL alt energy home. only as a novel approach, where u can baby your batteries.