Very cool! I have struggled with the HF Alumiweld rods too--one trick is that you can effectively only melt them once. This means any little berries on the rod or puddle on the work are not going to remelt without trouble. I am definitely going to try these rod instead in the future.
The reason that drippings cannot be reflowed is revealed in my other comment. Without flux, the solder has no means to wet the base metal. They rely on mechanical scrubbing to achieve wetting. Once the blobs are separated from the rod, they don't get scrubbed around, so they won't wet to anything. Like any soldering process, these intermediate Zn-Al solders _require_ flux for any practical use. The Alumiweld rods and the Lucas AL822 rods are both Zn-Al rods. The primary difference is that AL822 is a flux-cored rod. Unless you're paying $5-10 per rod, you're getting bare rods. The bare rods have no flux, and flux alone is not readily available. It's worth pointing out that the Lucas rods he's using here are 78/22, which is the "thicker" gap-filling alloy. The Alumiweld rods are nearly-eutectic 96/4, which should actually flow freely in comparison. You've now seen fluxed 78/22 and seen how it flows and wets freely, even on 6000 series extrusion. When you used the "thinner" alloy in the Alumiweld rods, did it flow like was thinner, or was it a lumpy, drossy mess that liked to bridge over surfaces without wetting completely? Flux makes a huge difference.
Perfect result in my opinion and that is what I will try after this tutorial video. Thanks for your time to show and share this. Greetings from Germany, keep on going and have a good one 👍🍀🌞
I broke the tachometer can mount tab on my motorcycle. I used the aluma rods from harbor freight. Clean, Flux and temp control. Too hot is just as bad as too cold. I have temp sticks for this.
I haven't tried the Lucas ones yet. Only aluminum rods that worked decently for me or anyone I know is Hobart brand (can get them at TSC). Those will give you a fighting chance of success. Those Lucas ones you used were really good AFAICS but wanted to thank you for a piece of technique you showed - heating the parent aluminum until the rod wicked onto the aluminum (keeping the flame away). I did this before, but what this video showed was that the wicking test is really the only way to go about using these and not mixing in any other method. Also, it looks like that air tip is the best tip to use for this from what I can see. It's perfect for the task (not too hot - too hot makes heating the aluminum more unpredictable). Thanks for showing this.
Alumiweld and all the similar rods are a waste of time. They're usually a simple Zn-Al brazing alloy that's generally indistinguishable from Zamak3 and similar inexpensive galvanizing alloys (96/4). Some trustworthy products may have purpose-suited trace alloy elements to promote wetting, but I doubt any of the Amazon/HF rods are anything other than Zamak. You can literally do the same task with an old conduit fitting or something. I should point out that almost all of these bare rods will say stuff like "no flux needed" or "the flux is in the rod". This is almost universally a false statement. The exceptions are noted below. Zinc alloys will wet aluminum fairly well without flux, but require mechanical agitation to actually disrupt the passivation layer. As such, they will always tent over joints instead of penetrating them. In manufacturing, these alloys _are_ used with flux (see Superior #1280), but you'll have to purchase direct from the manufacturer if you want it. There are coated/cored versions of these alloy rods (and preforms) sold for HVAC work (see Lucas-milhaupt AL822, ChannelFlux ZA-1, and ALUXCOR), but they're ridiculously expensive. Considering that direct purchasing flux from Superior would require a $100 minimum order, they're still cheaper if you don't need much. So let's say you _did_ have flux. Would using these intermediate zinc-alloy solders be a good thing? In my opinion, not generally. All zinc-bearing solders will be extremely susceptible to incisive corrosion, especially in the presence of any chlorides. This isn't a thing that takes place over years or decades. Joints exposed to saline solution will tend to just peel apart as the intermetallic layer is selectively destroyed. Immersed parts can easily fail within hours. For a condenser or your table, it probably won't matter, but I see people saying they made aluminum motorcycle trailers out of these things. Considering that road salt exists, it's kind of horrifying. In my estimation, this kind of explains why there are so many of these rods on the market, but no flux. They're a product that can be manufactured from cheap (usually scrap) material with no real need for dimensional tolerance or material property control. Over a broad range of conditions, they give the illusion of working well enough that the user will trust that they simply don't possess the talent or experience to make them excel. The manufacturers that _aren't_ being dishonest about their products are well aware that they have limitations and that the actual market for such things is very very small. TL;DR Unless you go buy flux and you understand the weaknesses of the alloy combinations, you're wasting your time with Zn-Al processes. Al-Si is where it's at. EDIT: oh. I guess you''re using 822. AL822 is a 78/22 Zn-Al alloy with (iirc) cesium fluoroaluminate flux. I don't know if Lucas makes a 98/2 rod, though I know others do. The 98/2 should be better for capillary performance, but I guess you don't need that here. You solder/braze all the time. Now that you've tried a Zn-Al process both with and without flux, what is your opinion of the claims that the bare rods "need no flux"?
These worked surprisingly well. As you said they are geared toward HVAC and are for aluminum coil repairs which nowadays typically run in the 120-150 PSI range and can be in varied environments. A lot of the coil cleaners we use in the industry are alkaline based and some are touted as "no Rinse" which I always said was BS, but I wonder if that would effect the joint over time? As far as flux vs fuxless those alumiweld rods are garbage. I cleaned just the same as in this case with a stainless brush. Heated the metal up and scrubbed to break up the oxide layer. All I got was a puddle of melted rod that was well attached to the top layer and exposed edges, but would not penetrate into the actual joint or would attach to one piece, but peel away from the piece I was trying to join. Even if it did work well, the scrubbing action required melts way more rod then needed and it ends up looking like someone ran a bead of caulking along the edge. Using the AL-822 was way more akin to what I'm used to with using soft solder, silver solder, and sil-foss rods to join copper to copper. Heat it up and it flows easily with the heat and is controllable. Like you said and I said, not anything I would use for any kind of structural or load bearing work, but for decorative stuff or in this case a basic frame it will work for someone without "proper" welding equipment.
@@Halligan142 It's hard to say exactly how susceptible the joints are to corrosion. The samples I ran were on various 6000 and 3000 series alloys, but I had them immersed. FWIW, Zn-Al did do better than Sn-Zn (soft solder for aluminum). If they're just occasionally damp, idk if it would even be a concern. Like I said, they use this alloy in preforms when manufacturing coils and other similar tube heat exchangers. I figure it's good enough for that. I don't think I'd build a boat out of it though.
Alumaweld best way to get it to work is use straight acetylene to leave a black film on your work surface. Then using your oxygen and acetylene, once the black is burned away it's hot enough to braze
Alumaweld works great. The gaps here are too large. The pool will just flow through the gap and drip out the bottom like water. Pieces need to be butted together reasonably tight.
Aluminum weld works great. Metal has to be cleaned. Propane or Map gas will work. You have to be careful not to overheat or melt the pieces you are welding.
10 years ago I used similar rods. I think they were from Harris. My LWS gave me some to try and work just like yours and they weren't cheap then, either. However, those Alumaweld rods will work. You just gotta alter your technique because they are fluxless. I kept meaning to post an in-depth video on them and why most attempts fail but I got old and forgot.
p.s. When I do make the vid can I use a bit of your footage to compare the 2 rods? I don't have any of the expensive rods anymore and I was going to mention/shout you out as part of the story/reminder.
@@EddieTheGrouch Absolutely. I tried scrubbing and getting those alumiweld rods in the joint, but never really worked for me. I could get it to cover, but never into the joint for a proper bond. Also miss your vids.
So the ally rods are great for specific operations. If you are failing to use this material strategy you probably thought to heat the rod... You heat the rod at all... You heat the object to atleast 660c and then apply the rod to the joining area........ With heat still applied to the original/base object allowing it to maintain high temp
This 6083 is the only thing I have tried it on and the website just says Aluminum-aluminum and aluminum-copper joints. I don't see why it wouldn't work, but you never know. I made a 90 degree T joint and tried to pull it apart. The aluminum bent and cracked but the join didn't. Again it's purpose is aluminum coils for HVAC which an run around 120-140 PSI
There’s absolutely no fusion do it at all it’s basically just like laying solder on there… it will work for low tensile applications but no comparison to it being arc welded
To get the harbor freight stuff to work, you need to heat up the rest of the surrounding metal to 720. Gotta be using Mapp gas and a beefy torch too. Just gonna get an oxy-propane torch because I want to braze steels too.
Yeah it’s very helpful and easy fix too in a pinch you def have to heat that up more so if it a higher stress point I’ll heat up a portion of the crack enough to do a dime one first second third centering it in but I’ve seen people use axle grease to welds cast aluminum didn’t believe much in the method at first till I seen quality of work kind of but not really just in the sense iit protect the weld . A battery charger stainless steel plates like outlet cover liquid elc tape all stacked in series tickled by about ten amp off alternator using the vacuum for injection to pipe hydrogen generator by this simple install not bullishit seriously Il l give anyone my Toyota Camry if you can show me it doesn’t work literally within a couple of weeks the inside of your motor with be Perfectly lean Toyota doing a 3 cylinder version turbo puts out more ponies then it’s turbo older cousin
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
Before you start, make a few lines with a Sharpie across the joint. When the Sharpie lines disappear, you are at 800 degrees Fahrenheit.
Very cool! I have struggled with the HF Alumiweld rods too--one trick is that you can effectively only melt them once. This means any little berries on the rod or puddle on the work are not going to remelt without trouble. I am definitely going to try these rod instead in the future.
The reason that drippings cannot be reflowed is revealed in my other comment. Without flux, the solder has no means to wet the base metal. They rely on mechanical scrubbing to achieve wetting. Once the blobs are separated from the rod, they don't get scrubbed around, so they won't wet to anything.
Like any soldering process, these intermediate Zn-Al solders _require_ flux for any practical use. The Alumiweld rods and the Lucas AL822 rods are both Zn-Al rods. The primary difference is that AL822 is a flux-cored rod. Unless you're paying $5-10 per rod, you're getting bare rods. The bare rods have no flux, and flux alone is not readily available.
It's worth pointing out that the Lucas rods he's using here are 78/22, which is the "thicker" gap-filling alloy. The Alumiweld rods are nearly-eutectic 96/4, which should actually flow freely in comparison. You've now seen fluxed 78/22 and seen how it flows and wets freely, even on 6000 series extrusion. When you used the "thinner" alloy in the Alumiweld rods, did it flow like was thinner, or was it a lumpy, drossy mess that liked to bridge over surfaces without wetting completely? Flux makes a huge difference.
That is a good use of available resources. The table should last a long time.
Perfect result in my opinion and that is what I will try after this tutorial video. Thanks for your time to show and share this. Greetings from Germany, keep on going and have a good one 👍🍀🌞
I broke the tachometer can mount tab on my motorcycle. I used the aluma rods from harbor freight. Clean, Flux and temp control. Too hot is just as bad as too cold. I have temp sticks for this.
I think you did a great job, the table looks good. 👍
I haven't tried the Lucas ones yet. Only aluminum rods that worked decently for me or anyone I know is Hobart brand (can get them at TSC). Those will give you a fighting chance of success. Those Lucas ones you used were really good AFAICS but wanted to thank you for a piece of technique you showed - heating the parent aluminum until the rod wicked onto the aluminum (keeping the flame away). I did this before, but what this video showed was that the wicking test is really the only way to go about using these and not mixing in any other method.
Also, it looks like that air tip is the best tip to use for this from what I can see. It's perfect for the task (not too hot - too hot makes heating the aluminum more unpredictable). Thanks for showing this.
I never got that Alumaweld stuff to work either. Glad this alternative worked out for you. Thanks for sharing.
MG 461 was the old HVAC kit i remember getting them from Johnstone supply when i started HVAC
Alumiweld and all the similar rods are a waste of time. They're usually a simple Zn-Al brazing alloy that's generally indistinguishable from Zamak3 and similar inexpensive galvanizing alloys (96/4). Some trustworthy products may have purpose-suited trace alloy elements to promote wetting, but I doubt any of the Amazon/HF rods are anything other than Zamak. You can literally do the same task with an old conduit fitting or something. I should point out that almost all of these bare rods will say stuff like "no flux needed" or "the flux is in the rod". This is almost universally a false statement. The exceptions are noted below.
Zinc alloys will wet aluminum fairly well without flux, but require mechanical agitation to actually disrupt the passivation layer. As such, they will always tent over joints instead of penetrating them. In manufacturing, these alloys _are_ used with flux (see Superior #1280), but you'll have to purchase direct from the manufacturer if you want it. There are coated/cored versions of these alloy rods (and preforms) sold for HVAC work (see Lucas-milhaupt AL822, ChannelFlux ZA-1, and ALUXCOR), but they're ridiculously expensive. Considering that direct purchasing flux from Superior would require a $100 minimum order, they're still cheaper if you don't need much.
So let's say you _did_ have flux. Would using these intermediate zinc-alloy solders be a good thing? In my opinion, not generally. All zinc-bearing solders will be extremely susceptible to incisive corrosion, especially in the presence of any chlorides. This isn't a thing that takes place over years or decades. Joints exposed to saline solution will tend to just peel apart as the intermetallic layer is selectively destroyed. Immersed parts can easily fail within hours. For a condenser or your table, it probably won't matter, but I see people saying they made aluminum motorcycle trailers out of these things. Considering that road salt exists, it's kind of horrifying.
In my estimation, this kind of explains why there are so many of these rods on the market, but no flux. They're a product that can be manufactured from cheap (usually scrap) material with no real need for dimensional tolerance or material property control. Over a broad range of conditions, they give the illusion of working well enough that the user will trust that they simply don't possess the talent or experience to make them excel. The manufacturers that _aren't_ being dishonest about their products are well aware that they have limitations and that the actual market for such things is very very small.
TL;DR Unless you go buy flux and you understand the weaknesses of the alloy combinations, you're wasting your time with Zn-Al processes. Al-Si is where it's at.
EDIT: oh. I guess you''re using 822. AL822 is a 78/22 Zn-Al alloy with (iirc) cesium fluoroaluminate flux. I don't know if Lucas makes a 98/2 rod, though I know others do. The 98/2 should be better for capillary performance, but I guess you don't need that here.
You solder/braze all the time. Now that you've tried a Zn-Al process both with and without flux, what is your opinion of the claims that the bare rods "need no flux"?
These worked surprisingly well. As you said they are geared toward HVAC and are for aluminum coil repairs which nowadays typically run in the 120-150 PSI range and can be in varied environments. A lot of the coil cleaners we use in the industry are alkaline based and some are touted as "no Rinse" which I always said was BS, but I wonder if that would effect the joint over time? As far as flux vs fuxless those alumiweld rods are garbage. I cleaned just the same as in this case with a stainless brush. Heated the metal up and scrubbed to break up the oxide layer. All I got was a puddle of melted rod that was well attached to the top layer and exposed edges, but would not penetrate into the actual joint or would attach to one piece, but peel away from the piece I was trying to join. Even if it did work well, the scrubbing action required melts way more rod then needed and it ends up looking like someone ran a bead of caulking along the edge. Using the AL-822 was way more akin to what I'm used to with using soft solder, silver solder, and sil-foss rods to join copper to copper. Heat it up and it flows easily with the heat and is controllable. Like you said and I said, not anything I would use for any kind of structural or load bearing work, but for decorative stuff or in this case a basic frame it will work for someone without "proper" welding equipment.
@@Halligan142 It's hard to say exactly how susceptible the joints are to corrosion. The samples I ran were on various 6000 and 3000 series alloys, but I had them immersed. FWIW, Zn-Al did do better than Sn-Zn (soft solder for aluminum).
If they're just occasionally damp, idk if it would even be a concern. Like I said, they use this alloy in preforms when manufacturing coils and other similar tube heat exchangers. I figure it's good enough for that. I don't think I'd build a boat out of it though.
Great video man, thank you 👊
Alumaweld best way to get it to work is use straight acetylene to leave a black film on your work surface. Then using your oxygen and acetylene, once the black is burned away it's hot enough to braze
Alumaweld works great. The gaps here are too large. The pool will just flow through the gap and drip out the bottom like water. Pieces need to be butted together reasonably tight.
You mean exactly what didn’t happen in the video? You bother watching it?
Honestly I was impressed he was able to fill that gap.
Personally as a welder I do a ton of brazing and soldering , I think you need better understanding of the technique with the torch
Would you recommend using an oxygen and a settling wing tip?
It worked! Why do you have to comment like a smart ass?
Happy Father’s Day.
THanks!
Aluminum weld works great. Metal has to be cleaned. Propane or Map gas will work. You have to be careful not to overheat or melt the pieces you are welding.
10 years ago I used similar rods. I think they were from Harris. My LWS gave me some to try and work just like yours and they weren't cheap then, either.
However, those Alumaweld rods will work. You just gotta alter your technique because they are fluxless.
I kept meaning to post an in-depth video on them and why most attempts fail but I got old and forgot.
p.s. When I do make the vid can I use a bit of your footage to compare the 2 rods? I don't have any of the expensive rods anymore and I was going to mention/shout you out as part of the story/reminder.
@@EddieTheGrouch Absolutely. I tried scrubbing and getting those alumiweld rods in the joint, but never really worked for me. I could get it to cover, but never into the joint for a proper bond. Also miss your vids.
So the ally rods are great for specific operations. If you are failing to use this material strategy you probably thought to heat the rod... You heat the rod at all... You heat the object to atleast 660c and then apply the rod to the joining area........ With heat still applied to the original/base object allowing it to maintain high temp
You can gas weld aluminum with flux and alum tig rods
Interesting piece of knowledge. Thank you.
It would have been nice to see a destructive test.
Bingo !! Thanks
Thanks for posting this. Can these rods be used with any aluminum? Had you tried to break any of the joints to see how tough it really is?
This 6083 is the only thing I have tried it on and the website just says Aluminum-aluminum and aluminum-copper joints. I don't see why it wouldn't work, but you never know. I made a 90 degree T joint and tried to pull it apart. The aluminum bent and cracked but the join didn't. Again it's purpose is aluminum coils for HVAC which an run around 120-140 PSI
@@Halligan142 Thanks for the info as it's very much appreciated!
There’s absolutely no fusion do it at all it’s basically just like laying solder on there… it will work for low tensile applications but no comparison to it being arc welded
What brazing rod did you use, and what's the alloy of aluminum you are brazing?
Watch the video. He says what it is and shows images of the product. Put it on pause if you need to.
can only melt them once so no mistakes allowed
To get the harbor freight stuff to work, you need to heat up the rest of the surrounding metal to 720. Gotta be using Mapp gas and a beefy torch too.
Just gonna get an oxy-propane torch because I want to braze steels too.
For this applicaiton, it is probably fine, but may not be strong enouugh for other purposes.
Lets see if it will hold up to flexing it. I'm guessing no.
Yeah it’s very helpful and easy fix too in a pinch you def have to heat that up more so if it a higher stress point I’ll heat up a portion of the crack enough to do a dime one first second third centering it in but I’ve seen people use axle grease to welds cast aluminum didn’t believe much in the method at first till I seen quality of work kind of but not really just in the sense iit protect the weld . A battery charger stainless steel plates like outlet cover liquid elc tape all stacked in series tickled by about ten amp off alternator using the vacuum for injection to pipe hydrogen generator by this simple install not bullishit seriously Il l give anyone my Toyota Camry if you can show me it doesn’t work literally within a couple of weeks the inside of your motor with be Perfectly lean Toyota doing a 3 cylinder version turbo puts out more ponies then it’s turbo older cousin
You did most of the soldering wrong. Heat the metal and melt the rod onto it. Don't put the torch on the rod.
He did, that’s why it worked. Literally heating the metal from the bottom applying the solder on the top. Strange comment….
Seriously !!! UGGS while welding
Yo bro link to the manufacturer tutorial😅
Looks like piuke
will MAP get hot enough?
nope or it would take forever to heat it up
Yes mapp is more then enough
Lasted a week on the patty
Still out there and perfectly fine
This air fuel torch
Es considerada falsas soldaduras por como soldar con estaño
I stand by what I said on instagram. Wouldn’t turn out.
I'm not on Instagram
Potaters gonna potate @@Halligan142
اللەاکبر
Wouldn't it work better if you flux the joint as well.