Yeh that's why I look like I'm constantly raiding refrigerators. I have the same voice in my head all the time. Also because I'm constantly raiding them.
Another way to look at it: we don't necessarily care as much about what an opponent's damage per round is so much as we care how many rounds we can withstand that damage. And we can figure out the latter number with this formula: (Attacks Until Death)=(HP)/((Hit Chance)*(Attack Damage On Hit)). What's important here is that Hit Chance is in the denominator. That means that as Hit Chance approaches zero, Attacks Until Death grows asymptotically (or it would, if we didn't have a hard floor of 5% Hit Chance). Damage per round scales linearly with Hit Chance, but Attacks Until Death very much does not. Let's say you have 50 HP and the opponent's attack does 10 damage on average. If it hits 50% of the time, you can expect to take (50)/((.5)*(10))=50/5=10 turns until you reach 0 HP. If it hits 45% of the time, this becomes 50/4.5=11.1 turns to die--this is an 11% improvement despite your opponent only losing a 5% hit chance. A 40% hit chance gives you 12.5 turns to die, a 12.6% improvement over the previous step. All the way down the line: a 10% hit chance means you'll survive 50 turns on average, and a 5% hit chance means you'll survive 100 turns on average. That increases your survivability by 100%! On the other side: going from 95% hit chance (5.3 turns to die) to 90% (5.6 turns to die) is just a 5.6% improvement. So the conclusion to draw is: an increase of 1 AC is powerful, and *it's even more powerful when you're already at high AC*. You can also look at the ratio of (Damage Dealt)/(Damage Received), which has the same asymptotic behavior because again the incoming damage is in the denominator.
It's counterintuitive for people coming from most other RPG's to hear that Armor has the opposite of Diminishing Returns. I had to change up my mindset for that one.
After a certain point it's actually less powerful, because above a certain thresh-hold you need to start calculating if you even need those extra turns or if you are better off focusing elsewhere. You may survive longer but if you don't need those turns then surviving longer doesn't matter. You need to balance surviving longer with other factors such as dealing your own damage. If this were a game where you could potentially hit a point where you could block all damage then endless defense can be king, but if you rack on more turns of survivability without any way to deal with the threat and the fact that it will at some point deal enough damage to you too put an end to you. This sadly puts most people into a more of a glass canon mode and thinking that it is all powerful when it has serious drawbacks as well. It also tends to lead to such fallacies as combat healing being ineffective in 5e and BG3 because they work on extremely short survivability windows and only rely on overpowering their opponents defenses first. Which is part of what makes the Orin fight so hard for so many people. She's designed to counteract many of the advantages of glass canon builds, though not to the extreme levels she could have been so she is still beatable. And then there is the fact that because enemies will always hit at a certain point, that points of AC over certain thresh-holds become increasingly situationally useful (and eventually not useful at all) because they are changing the outcomes of your survivability in fewer and fewer instances which is where the bulk of diminishing returns actually lies in the AC system for D&D.
@@Quandry1 Add to that that ac doesn't help with saving throws, so you can still take damage fairly easily depending on the encounter/dm. So just make a paladin, problem solved.
@prodICYN you are still going to take half damage much of the time anyway. No Paladin needed. In 5e the realistic highest dc is like 21 or 22 and that is with something like Rod of the Pact Keeper included. Most of the best Saving throw mod numbers only reach like +11 or +12. So even with a pally you can't cover the spread.
The part where more AC led to higher chance of being hit was a joke, or you could spend rhe next 30min explaining probability, and that the sample size of 100 swings and the difference of 37 vs 41 hits landed was not statistically significant in demonstrating the real difference in the to hit chance
Nice idea for a video. It brings things I'd previously dismissed (acid attacks/spells) back onto my radar. I still lean toward the idea that it's better to buff yourself/your allies than debuff your foes, but I'm curious what you think the strategic takeaway from this video should be.
Went and tested with 30AC and a "cannot be crit" helmet vs a +6 Attack roll in BG3. On a 20 roll, it Missed, and was counted as a normal 26 roll after modifiers. So if you had enough AC and uncrittable in BG3, you would be unhittable.
@@PanicRolling Glad to know that BG3 has this little bug. It's a fatal flaw in the system (granted a flaw mostly in PC's favor), because all Crit immunity should do is reduce the incoming damage to normal levels. a Nat 20 should always count as a hit and the Critical is the extra damage part.
I'm gonna really mess with your math. 30 AC isn't always that magical tipping point. That magical tipping point depends on your Attribute Modifier, Your Proficiency bonus (including from difficulty) and the attack bonus on the weapon (+1, +2, or +3). Which can move the bonus higher or lower than +10. That same Guard had it been on a lower difficulty and not getting the +2 proficiency modifier from the difficulty would have hit that point at 28, conversely if it had been say wielding a +2 weapon like the mace dropped from Edwyna i think it is. That point would be 32. Over a certain point the bonuses just start becoming more and more situationally valuable where you could instead by increasing something else or picking up some other valuable power. Particularly since you cannot ever reach 100% and literally block all damage.
Someone else asked, and I went and tested: If you have "cannot be critically hit" and a high enough AC value, you are literally unhittable with Attack Rolls in BG3. Like you said, the AC required will differ per enemy...but it is still ridiculous.
@PanicRolling yeah. I commented on that thread that it was an odd bug in bg3 that could be exploited in that thread. And that in the table top it still counts as a hit, it just doesn't do the extra damage.
What is the limit, though? Which enemy in the game has the highest modifier to hit, and what is it? Because if you go above that number plus 20, and have a piece of "can't be crit" gear, you should be invincible to any damage coming from attack rolls.
@wekashipo7507 I th9nk the highest is +11 on lower difficulties and +13 on higher. Kolo may know better than I do at this point, but the problem may partly be that I believe much of the immune to crit gear is not the highest ac and comes out of act 1.
@@Quandry1 +13 means you need 34 AC, which is doable. Base 17 from Armour of Agility. Add +6 from 22 DEX (with the mirror of loss) +3 from any of the +3 shields, of which Viconia's is the best +2 from Shield of Faith +1 from Balduran's Greathelm, which also grants crit immunity +1 from Defense fighting style +1 from Defender Flail +1 from Ring of Protection +1 from Cloak of Protection +1 from Wondrous Gloves +1 from Evasive Shoes +1 from being the target of Warding Bond That's 36 AC total.
As mod maker currently working on the next update that is introducing something that lowers a a targets ac thanks the feature is definitely getting nerfed
Randomness is more fun in person socially Simular to Mario Kart and so on. But then again if everything went to plan it wouldnt really feel like an adventure as well.
In other games, +1 AC means you're alive a little longer. In BG3, it means you are less prone to condition : dead.
I think Avoidance might be a better name for it. You either dodge and avoid all the dmg, or you avoid it by having your armor block it all.
Your videos are such a great balance of being clear and informative but also fun and relaxing
I agree. I think we should all take turns talking about how cool I am. 😎
Your voice sounds like the one in my head when I am about to raid the refrigerator.
Yeh that's why I look like I'm constantly raiding refrigerators. I have the same voice in my head all the time.
Also because I'm constantly raiding them.
Another way to look at it: we don't necessarily care as much about what an opponent's damage per round is so much as we care how many rounds we can withstand that damage. And we can figure out the latter number with this formula: (Attacks Until Death)=(HP)/((Hit Chance)*(Attack Damage On Hit)).
What's important here is that Hit Chance is in the denominator. That means that as Hit Chance approaches zero, Attacks Until Death grows asymptotically (or it would, if we didn't have a hard floor of 5% Hit Chance). Damage per round scales linearly with Hit Chance, but Attacks Until Death very much does not.
Let's say you have 50 HP and the opponent's attack does 10 damage on average. If it hits 50% of the time, you can expect to take (50)/((.5)*(10))=50/5=10 turns until you reach 0 HP. If it hits 45% of the time, this becomes 50/4.5=11.1 turns to die--this is an 11% improvement despite your opponent only losing a 5% hit chance. A 40% hit chance gives you 12.5 turns to die, a 12.6% improvement over the previous step.
All the way down the line: a 10% hit chance means you'll survive 50 turns on average, and a 5% hit chance means you'll survive 100 turns on average. That increases your survivability by 100%!
On the other side: going from 95% hit chance (5.3 turns to die) to 90% (5.6 turns to die) is just a 5.6% improvement.
So the conclusion to draw is: an increase of 1 AC is powerful, and *it's even more powerful when you're already at high AC*.
You can also look at the ratio of (Damage Dealt)/(Damage Received), which has the same asymptotic behavior because again the incoming damage is in the denominator.
It's counterintuitive for people coming from most other RPG's to hear that Armor has the opposite of Diminishing Returns.
I had to change up my mindset for that one.
After a certain point it's actually less powerful, because above a certain thresh-hold you need to start calculating if you even need those extra turns or if you are better off focusing elsewhere. You may survive longer but if you don't need those turns then surviving longer doesn't matter. You need to balance surviving longer with other factors such as dealing your own damage. If this were a game where you could potentially hit a point where you could block all damage then endless defense can be king, but if you rack on more turns of survivability without any way to deal with the threat and the fact that it will at some point deal enough damage to you too put an end to you.
This sadly puts most people into a more of a glass canon mode and thinking that it is all powerful when it has serious drawbacks as well. It also tends to lead to such fallacies as combat healing being ineffective in 5e and BG3 because they work on extremely short survivability windows and only rely on overpowering their opponents defenses first. Which is part of what makes the Orin fight so hard for so many people. She's designed to counteract many of the advantages of glass canon builds, though not to the extreme levels she could have been so she is still beatable.
And then there is the fact that because enemies will always hit at a certain point, that points of AC over certain thresh-holds become increasingly situationally useful (and eventually not useful at all) because they are changing the outcomes of your survivability in fewer and fewer instances which is where the bulk of diminishing returns actually lies in the AC system for D&D.
@@Quandry1 Add to that that ac doesn't help with saving throws, so you can still take damage fairly easily depending on the encounter/dm.
So just make a paladin, problem solved.
@prodICYN you are still going to take half damage much of the time anyway. No Paladin needed. In 5e the realistic highest dc is like 21 or 22 and that is with something like Rod of the Pact Keeper included. Most of the best Saving throw mod numbers only reach like +11 or +12. So even with a pally you can't cover the spread.
I always try to get 18 AC on my whole party as soon as I reach Withers. Even Gale can get there thanks to his shield proficiency.
He's a pretty clever guy, carrying a shield like that...
I like how Armor Class means you’re either stronger or faster (or both).
this was so helpful! would love to see vids for attack modifiers
My evaluation of armor class is that each point more gives 5% less likely hit by an attack.
100% of the time, it works 5% of the time.
Your evaluation seems to be wrong then. 🐲
The part where more AC led to higher chance of being hit was a joke, or you could spend rhe next 30min explaining probability, and that the sample size of 100 swings and the difference of 37 vs 41 hits landed was not statistically significant in demonstrating the real difference in the to hit chance
Nah forget all that noise. That sounds like a lot of work.
TIL: You can't beat the meat if your attack roll doesn't meet. 😢
Beats it, meats it.
Nice idea for a video. It brings things I'd previously dismissed (acid attacks/spells) back onto my radar.
I still lean toward the idea that it's better to buff yourself/your allies than debuff your foes, but I'm curious what you think the strategic takeaway from this video should be.
Mostly singing the praises of increasing your own AC. You're spot on about buffing yourself instead of debuffing enemies, too.
nicely explained.
thanks!
What happens if you have crit immunity and have mor AC than the opponent can hit? Like you have 31 AC and the opponent has a plus 10
Went and tested with 30AC and a "cannot be crit" helmet vs a +6 Attack roll in BG3.
On a 20 roll, it Missed, and was counted as a normal 26 roll after modifiers. So if you had enough AC and uncrittable in BG3, you would be unhittable.
@@PanicRolling Glad to know that BG3 has this little bug. It's a fatal flaw in the system (granted a flaw mostly in PC's favor), because all Crit immunity should do is reduce the incoming damage to normal levels. a Nat 20 should always count as a hit and the Critical is the extra damage part.
I'm gonna really mess with your math. 30 AC isn't always that magical tipping point. That magical tipping point depends on your Attribute Modifier, Your Proficiency bonus (including from difficulty) and the attack bonus on the weapon (+1, +2, or +3). Which can move the bonus higher or lower than +10.
That same Guard had it been on a lower difficulty and not getting the +2 proficiency modifier from the difficulty would have hit that point at 28, conversely if it had been say wielding a +2 weapon like the mace dropped from Edwyna i think it is. That point would be 32.
Over a certain point the bonuses just start becoming more and more situationally valuable where you could instead by increasing something else or picking up some other valuable power. Particularly since you cannot ever reach 100% and literally block all damage.
Someone else asked, and I went and tested:
If you have "cannot be critically hit" and a high enough AC value, you are literally unhittable with Attack Rolls in BG3. Like you said, the AC required will differ per enemy...but it is still ridiculous.
@PanicRolling yeah. I commented on that thread that it was an odd bug in bg3 that could be exploited in that thread. And that in the table top it still counts as a hit, it just doesn't do the extra damage.
What is the limit, though? Which enemy in the game has the highest modifier to hit, and what is it?
Because if you go above that number plus 20, and have a piece of "can't be crit" gear, you should be invincible to any damage coming from attack rolls.
@wekashipo7507 I th9nk the highest is +11 on lower difficulties and +13 on higher. Kolo may know better than I do at this point, but the problem may partly be that I believe much of the immune to crit gear is not the highest ac and comes out of act 1.
@@Quandry1 +13 means you need 34 AC, which is doable.
Base 17 from Armour of Agility.
Add +6 from 22 DEX (with the mirror of loss)
+3 from any of the +3 shields, of which Viconia's is the best
+2 from Shield of Faith
+1 from Balduran's Greathelm, which also grants crit immunity
+1 from Defense fighting style
+1 from Defender Flail
+1 from Ring of Protection
+1 from Cloak of Protection
+1 from Wondrous Gloves
+1 from Evasive Shoes
+1 from being the target of Warding Bond
That's 36 AC total.
In first.
.
Here for the beer!
Statistics say nothing on the individual case. Its always 50/50 tho. Ether you miss or you hit. 😂😅
100% chance that every option is a 50% chance.
100% of the time you flip a coin.
The higher ac is just adding a bit of weight to one side of the coin making it more likely to land
@@PanicRolling "Doctors say that Nordberg has a 50 - 50 chance of living, though there's only a 10 percent chance of that."
Naked Gun (1988)
Naked Gun is such a friggin good movie.
you should play the lottery. it's 50/50! You either win the lottery or your don't!
The best defence is a good smitin'
Kaboom!
As mod maker currently working on the next update that is introducing something that lowers a a targets ac thanks the feature is definitely getting nerfed
Lol! Happy to help.
Babe get the oil, Kolo uploaded again
Hell yeh. Let her rip, tater chip.
Nice AC video.
... So, will you ever make a 20 Charisma video?
Yeh I am definitely going to finish up the set! Real life stuff has delayed that one a bit.
Why stop at 20?
karmic dice is on. you simply have no idea about bg3 settings ^^.
Lol!
I love bg3. But Im not a huge fan of dnd's mechanics tbh. It's a bit too random for my tastes.
the dice definitely control your fate, that's for sure
Randomness is more fun in person socially Simular to Mario Kart and so on.
But then again if everything went to plan it wouldnt really feel like an adventure as well.