G3 Hemi Oiling
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- Didn't realize there is a small smudge on the lens. I'm going to redo this video eventually I just wanted to get one posted since it's been awhile.
if anything is not clear please let me know and I'll address it as soon as I can. .....Thank you to all that have subscribed
Finally, some REAL Information!! Suggestion; a better lit close up of the MDS solenoid in the cutout and
an activation of the solenoid that shows the port blocking you mentioned...A rotation of an MDS lifter
in the cutout that shows the relationship of the "lock" hole to the oil galley plus the lifter base and full lift
positions in the cutout......Good work, keep it up !!
Been meaning to redo this Video with Both Types of 5.7s cut open
Why the F**K doesn't this video have more Views
Awesome video, do you think blocking off those oil drain holes (4:25) would help keep the lifters better oiled or would it just ruin the oil drain back
One of the little tricks I do with oiling is tap that hole and plug is with a small "set screw" , also another trick is , to notch/groove the lifter bore, as thou it's an old school flat solid lifter. it helps if you use the solid Rollers, ....BAM has a nice set of solid G3 lifters....... an older video (not mine) on hand grooving , Comp makes a great tool , but price wise it's more for the "many" builder then the Weekend warrior builder th-cam.com/video/MPnzeEHtpfc/w-d-xo.html
Please explain " when the MDS is activated,all the excess oil comes out of the hole here"....Pointing
to orifice in pushrod cavity side of lifter cavity.....What excess oil?? where does that hole connect????
it's the oil that bleeds out the MDS lifter , thru the hole in the lifter, when the Solenoid plunger blocks off the passage in the block it forces the lifter to maintain oil pressure in the lifter(MDS Lifter) it's self.
@@rickgehring7507 ; Not sure I follow what you are saying.... My understanding is that the
MDS solenoid applies oil pressure to a pin plunger in the lifter, retracting that pin from
the oil pressure grove, unlocking the inner
lifter from the outer lifter shell and stays
unlocked until that pressure is dumped...
Dumping that line pressure quickly would
require a rather large hole such as pointed
out in the video of the saw cut engine referenced earlier.....
@@regdor8187 the MDS solenoid has a plunger that lowers and blocks off the oil feed passage to the lifter galley .... the MDS solenoid does not touch the lifters .
That is where the excess oil is dumped when MDS is deactivated, he just switched up his words. It needs to quickly release the pressure and that is where it goes.
Ive Got An Early 5.7 Hemi Block. Is It Certain That All Early Hemi Blocks Can Be Safely Bored To 4.00" Bore? Without Checking Them For Core Shift? My Plan Was To Use A Scat 4.05" Stroker Crank Kit On Stock .010-.020" Over Bore To Net 392. But If I Can Bore It To 4.00 Id Definitely Go Through The Extra Hassle Of A Custom Piston To Get The CR Where I Want It Using A 4.00" Bore. That Would Be About 407. Plus Id Be Able To Take Advantage Of The Stock 6.4 Hemi Heads Since Bore Wont Shroud The Valves.
It Will Be A Turbo Motor On Pretty Low Boost With 11.5CR Ratio With Pump Gas And Water Methonal Injection. Goal Is Only 600AWHP. Maybe Later 800AWHP. Elevation Is 7000ft. Reason For Big Displacement Is That Low End Grunt And Torque For Drivability. I Come From The Turbo 3800 V6 And If Im Gonna Have A Big V8... Im Gonna Have A Big V8 🤣.
The 3800 Makes About 600WHP On 28PSI Of Boost. Would Be Aweosme To Have A Turbo V8 With The Same Power But With All The Low End haha
1st let me say this ,
I haven't come across an 03-08 5.7 block that couldn't go to at least 4.0 bore, that being said , when you run boost you really should have a minimum of .185 bore wall thickness, that is hard to find when you take those 03-08 blocks out to 4.0. then adding the extra stress of the 4.05 stroke.........Now 3.795in or a 3.72in (SRT392 stroke) is fine
FWIW you can run the SRT 392 crank in the 5.7 block , use 6.30 Center to center connecting rod , the 1.09 Pin Height used in the 4.05 stroker kit. now in the 03-08 block , the nose of the SRT392 cranks needs to be trimmed 5/8in off the cone that the oil pump/ lower Timing sprocket rides against. , 3.957 bore and 3.72 stroke = 366/6.0L 4.0bore X 3.72 =374/6.1L
2nd , I myself will not build that combo(4.0X4.05) when boost is involved. I've done a few in the past, and most of them cracked a cylinder.
at 7000ft elevation, I really get why you want the extra Cubes, but I wouldn't be comfortable with that 4.05 stroke and the 4.0 bore with any level of boost.
BGE/Apache heads(6.4L)
I've run more then a few stock bore(3.917) and .020 over (3.937) with Apache/BGE heads, valve shrouding is not an issue, remember this a Hemi the valves open on the centerline of the bore, unlike a wedge which opens off center next to the bore wall.
I run a stock bore(3.917) and stroke( 3.59 all forged internals) with a set of Apache heads with a 2.225 intake valve and 1.65 exhaust valve, that engine runs close to 680hp at 7700 RPMS) almost 2 hp per CI Naturally asperated , it wouldn't make that kind of HP if valve shrouding was an issue.
Keep me posted on what direction you chose to go.
@rickgehring7507 I Did Not Consider The Valve Configuration Of The Hemi Heads And Them Not Being Shrouded Like I Thought!! You Are Correct And Makes Sense / Proven By Power Production You Got Out Of That Engine.
You Are Spot On With A That 6.4 Crank, Rods And Piston Combo To Maintain Deck Clearance. The Only Issue Is Finding An Off The Shelf 6.300" Hemi Rod To Use With A 6.4 Crankshaft. I've Actually Got A 6.4 Crank Laying In A Scrap Pile That Might Be Usable.
The Aim Of This Build Is Best Bang For The Buck. All I Have Is A Block. I Need Everything Else. Scat Has The 4.05 Stroker Kit That Uses A .010-.030" Over For A 5.7 Hemi That Makes It A 392 Cuin. And That Kit Comes With Everything, Rods, Rings, Crank, Bearings, Rod Bolts, And Pistons For Only $2,500 Balanced Which In The "Stroker World" Is Affordable.
I Think Scat Also Has A 3.72 Stroker Kit Available. Would Your Recommendation Be 3.93-3.94" Bore And A 3.72 Stroke For A Turbo Application? I Could Use That 6.4 Stock Crank However Im Not Sure What Machine Shop Would Charge To Machine Down That Snout For Oil Pump / Timing Gear Fitting. Plus The Down Time / Cost Of A Custom 6.30 Rod. I Don't Want To Go Too Custom With The Rods And Pistons. I Had A Custom Set Of JE Pistons Made For My 3800 And That Ran Me $2,000 For 6 And 12 Week Wait Time...
Reason I Was Originally Going So Big In Displacement Is Because "This Is The Time To Do It". Also High Elevation And The AWD Jeep Commander Weighing About 6400 Lbs Really Does Require Low End Grunt For A Daily Driver Build. Also My Power Goal Is Fairly Low On Boost Of 600WHP. Also 6200 RPM Redline And 5800-5900 Shift RPM. (don't have high rpm goals) Im Not Building 1/4 Mile Cars, I Like To Build Drivers That Feel Nice In Stop And Go Traffic, Idles Fantastic etc. You Would Laugh If I Told You My Anticipated Cam Specs For The 392 Stroker Build Using 5.7 Eagle Hemi Heads hahaha.
800whp Goal Is Massive MAYBE Only Because It's Quite Hard To Have A Reliable Lasting Fuel System On 91 Single Pump Configuration. On My 3800 Turbo At 600WHP I've Got Just Enough Head Room On A 450 On A JMS Boost A Pump. I Actually Had To Lower My Static Fuel Pressure To Have That Pump Flow Enough To Keep Up. Now Granted That Very High Boost 3800 Fights 28PSI Of Intake Manifold Pressure Against The Fuel Pressure (Boost eferenced fuel pressure) So On A Low Boost Hemi It's Not Gonna Be So On The Edge On A 450.
Sorry I'm Long Winded With My Comments. Would Your Recommendation Be A 6.0 Build For Boost Considering What I've Stated Above? (mild stroke over 5.7 Hemi and mild over bore on 5.7 Early Block)
I Really Do Appreciate Your Input! Thank You!
@@rickgehring7507 So I Have Taken What You Have Said And Decided On Going With A Scat 368 Stroker Kit Flat Top Piston With 2cc Valve Reliefs
3.937" Bore
3.795" Stroke
6.125" Rod
1.22" Piston Compression Height
9.245" Deck (after .005" Mill)
.0275" Head Gaskets
.0295" Quench Clearance
Apache Cylinder Heads (74cc)
CR 10.24
Originally I Wanted To Go 6.4 On A 3.937 Bore But If You Don't Recommend A 4.05 Stroke On Boost I'll Stick With The 3.795 Stroke. Plus A "Six Oh" (368) Would Make People Think I LS Swapped My Commander haha. This Engine Is A Massive Step Up From The Bone Stock Pre Eagle 5.7 Turbo I Had. All It Had Was 6.1 Intake, Long Tubes, Injectors, 4x12x24 Intercooler, China gtx3582R And Water Methanol Injection.
Now Its:
5.7 to 6.0
9.5 to 10.2
Pre Eagle Heads to Apache Heads
Stock Cam to My Custom Cam
Id Like Your Input Before I Finalize This. Is This How You Would Have This Engine Set Up For My Application?
@@salvatorehayes2753 There are LOTs and I mean LOTs of people out there running the 4.05 and 4.08 cranks with stock to .040(3.957) bore boosted combo's out there , some as much as 18lbs of boost. I did one a few years back 3.917( one of the speedmaster blocks) 4.20 compstar crank ,Total displacement is 405(ish)CI , 6.10 Oliver rods , J&E pistons with a 1.035 Pin height, 18CC dish ,Compression ratio is 10.0 to 1 , crank has 1.88 Honda journals , Eagle heads Edelbrock Victor 7179 ,90mm TB , Cam is Custom , but Real close to Comp Cams part# 112-303-11. makes 800hp on 12lbs boost , was built in may 2021 has about 30k street miles on it in a 06 Magnum
Don't fear the 4.05 crank with a 3.937 and boost , those 03-08 Blocks have plenty of meat to seal good at those 3.917-3.957 bores.
BUT the advantage to the shorter stroke is Piston height, the more piston height, the more stable the piston is , better ring sealing, less friction , ....wear and tear is not really an issue with these early G3 hemi blocks , the Nickle Content in the cast Iron is high, higher then most other OEM blocks.
The 1st 440CI 5.7(4.06X4.25 Naturally asperated) I did back in 2012 , had 125k street miles on it when the owner crashed the 300 it was in, when I pulled it apart to "freshen "it up for her 72 Satellite project , the taper on the bore was roughly .005 .
@@rickgehring7507 Luckily The Machine Shop Hasn't Gotten Around To My Block. So I Haven't Ordered The 368 Stroker Kit. After Reading Over What You Have Said On Stock Bore To .040 Over With A 4.05 Crank I Think I'm Going To Go That Route. (Scat 392 Stroker Kit)
The Jeep Commander It's Going In Is Really Only Going To Be Driven During The Winter. May See A Drag Event Once A Year. Power Goal Is Only 600WHP With Boost.
Alot Of The Things I Read On Forum In Regards To Hemi Stroker Kits Are Guys Shooting For 4 Digit Power Numbers. I'm Not Getting Crazy With Boost. Shoot The Bone Stock Pre Eagle 5.7 It Had With Stock Cam Made 500AWHP With Boost. Could Have Made More But The Ring Gap Was Unknown / Stock. So 600 Will Be Easy And I'll Have All The Grunt Down Low. I Prefer Average HP Over Peak HP.
Considering I'm Having The Machine Work Done To Block I Might As Well Make It A 4.05 Stroker Motor.
Thanks For Your Input! I'm Always Over Thinking Everything hahaha
The way I understand it is when the mds system activates you get full oil pressure around the lifter. That oil pressure pushes in the pins on the sides of the lifter letting the lifter collapse. So the only time the lifter bore is actually getting oiled is during mds. A really backwards and stupid design that starves the lifters of oil most of the time. I can’t believe it exists honestly
Also you’re right if you delete the mds system you Jen full pressure all the time. But you have to change your lifters or you’ll be stuck in 4 cylinder mode. Best way to run the engine is mds delete. Remove the solenoids and use blockers and change to a hellcat lifter or any other non mds lifter.
To activated MDS , The solenoid's plunger extends and blocks off the oil feed from the lower passage, at that point the lifters are only receiving oil from the push rods. The MDS lifters have bleed holes in the side of the body, when there's positive oil pressure in the lifter galley it hydraulically Locks the plunger. when there's negative pressure in the galley the lifter collapses against the valve springs closed load pressure , which allows the MDS lifter to absorb the cam lift.
the result is the only lifter roller getting any oil during MDS is the MDS lifter, oil bleeds out the holes runs down over the roller and cam lobe, which is way most MDS failures are the NON-MDS lifter. think about this before the 5.7 Eagle engine came out , we didn't have lifter failure in the G3 Hemi, valve seats were the major issue and for the hardcore performance people it was the top of the pistons would break above the top ringland..........did you ever hear of a 6.1 having lifter issues?
. I have to run but later on I'll edit this and get in to the Reason we have Lifter failures in the eagle 5.7/6.4 , it's a 3 fold problem...not just lack of oiling....which is why 6.4SRT 6 speed and NON-MDS 2500/3500series trucks 5.7s also had issues.
Dude I'm thinking that there might be some coolant leaks if you rebuild that one..
Rick, do you mind giving some input on a motor for my truck. I'm wanting maximum torque and a 75k mile lifespan. I've seen you mention oil passage clearance issues once going over 4.05" stroke. What bore and stroke would you recommend for my goals? I was thinking a BGE block with Eagle heads for the reshaped and small combustion chamber (I've read small CC numbers help early torque).
I should add, it almost never exceeds 5k RPM.
I'm sorry I missed this, BGE with a 4.09 and 4.05 stroke is a get combo , I have a 431 (BGE 4.10 bore and 4.08 crank) that was done in 2016 with 205k mile on the build shows no signs of fall off. it chassie dynoed @ 550 RWHP and earlier this year I had it back and hit 535/540 RWHP before I changed the cam to one of the new Summit cams.
and Get your hand out of the view...just saying
I had a hard core brain fart on oil filter.