My 2016 WRX is tuned to stage 1.75 (everything but no downpipe). TGV and EGR delete. I am unable to pass smog here in CA. as my O2 sensor shows "not ready"...I'm taking my car back to the tuner next week to address this. I assume they will need to correct these deletes...and retune...?? Is this a big job of somewhat simple?
Yea driving with a check engine light is not a problem until something does break and you keep driving with that light on till it pops. Check engine light on a ford should be like wanted stars in gta. You get a couple of check engine lights it is ok just a little heat, but when you get 5 lights, that sucker is wasted!
Been modifying my car for years, now I am driving a time capsule. No emissions where I live. The fact it affects something on my car that has long been removed is bs.
Thanks for your question. Yes, if you have those loaded on your AP, they will still work. They are just not available from Cobb any longer, and they are not coming on the newer AP's. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Can we still turn TGV delete code off if we are using open source tuning like ecuFlash? I'm assuming this is only blocked on Access Tuner, is that correct?
That is possible. I'd recommend checking with your tuner. At this point Cobb is the first system that has made this change, and ECUtek is going to be following suite shortly. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I'm alittle late to the party but you mentioned GESI cats as a potential option. Is there a level of GESI cat that works better than others say a 300 cel vs 400 cel?
That is a good question and I don't know the answer honestly. I believe that GESI has made some changes, and I'm not sure what the differences are at this point. That may be a question best answered by the manufacturer. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What we need is someone to tune their STI before the update. With their tgv deletes and the other things on the new list of Cobbs no nos. Then once the new update droop for them to retune it to see what is really affected.
Please help! New WRX owner just becoming aware of all this stuff...got a couple questions Bought the car like 5 months ago in CT...it has a custom downpipe, only one cat. No CEL. No Accessport. Would I pass emissions or no? Haven't seen any manufacturer markings on the downpipe that I could see so far. I'm actually not even sure that the car was tuned for the downpipe. Is it possible that the car was tuned, then accessport removed, but tune stayed on the car? If that's not possible, doesn't that mean my engine is probably running lean due to not being tuned for the downpipe?
Thanks for your question. As far as passing emissions, that really depends on where you live, and what the emissions requirements are for your area. I would recommend getting on their website to see what they test for, and go from there. As for the Accessport, yes, you can flash a map onto an ECU, and then unplug the AP and the map will remain on the car. If you don't have a way to contact the previous owner to find out what they did, you may need to have a Tuner take a look at your car to see what they can find, or you could simply get a new Accessport if you would like to have that available. Considering that you don't have any CEL with the exhaust, I would say that there is a reasonable likelihood that there is a tune on your ECU, and with the recent changes, that would not be something that can be duplicated or re-done. I hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you so much! I haven't seen you guys talk too much (unless I missed it) about the option of open source tuning, for example, if someone is running an aftermarket downpipe with a high flow cat that *can* pass emissions. Is this a realistic scenario or what do you think about this option? I'm also wondering if it's legal for a dealership to sell a car that won't pass emissions because I had no idea how intricate this situation was when I bought the car. I am trying to find a trustworthy tuner in this area. Unfortunately the most reputable one turned out to be shady...they played a big part in flipping this car that I bought which had a lot of rushed unprofessional work done to it. I get they were just making a cash grab but I can't see trusting them again no matter how high their rep is.
Des this mean that if I am currently getting etuned and have no CELs that I can update the firmware on the accessport and not be affected. I havent updated my firmware yet because Im afraid of screwing up the tune since I have a flex fuel sensor
Thanks for your question. This change effects the Cobb Pro Tuners, and the access that they have to build maps. It doesn't affect anyone that is using an Access Port directly. Though if they are currently tuning your car for Flex Fuel, I'm not quite sure how they are doing that. I might say to have a conversation with Cobb directly if you need any further clarification about updating your AccessPort. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Have I got this correct for street use; -On a NA engine you can tune until you reach the OE MAF upper limit; altering fueling as needed with OE down pipe. - On a turbo engine you can tune until you reach exhaust back pressure limit; altering fueling as needed with OE down pipe. -Both engine types must retain all functional OE emission equipment. Thanks in advance for setting me straight.
Thanks for your question Rick. I would say that both cases are similar. Yes, you can tune the ECU basically normally as long as all of the emissions equipment is present up to the point where you encounter a limit of either the stock configuration, or a sensor parameter that you can't change (lime the MAF upper limit). I hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Any info on whether or not an OEM tgv setup modified to remove the butterfly plates would trigger any issues if the motor and electrical harness plugs are all still functional?
Thanks for the question, and that is definitely a complicated one. I don't know enough to give a detailed answer, but it sounds like the issue is that one can't be sent in for testing. I hope that some day an alternative will come about, but we will just have to see how everything works out. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
what about clark turners "new style" delicious tuning flex fuel sensor? He states that he is tuning for flex fuel using the greenspeed updated software.
Delicious Tuning is using ECUtech, and they haven't made the same changes yet, but they have announced that they are coming around the end of the year. So it is a current solution, but it will not be available for much longer. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for the comment. Yes, that would most likely be the case. And as we discussed in our MAF vs. Speed Density podcast, for high hp applications there are definitely benefits of making that conversion as well. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
So if I was to install a downpipe on my 15+ sti and get a tune. The CEL will pop up but I should still be able to drive it with it on without any problem? and will the CEL go away if I was to install the stock downpipe back on?
So I haven't gotten a real straight answer on this, if my car is currently tuned with egr and tgv deletes and I want to update my tune with new parts will the CEL come on? I'm not worried about passing emissions, but I'm worried that it will put my car in limp mode. Currently my car runs great
Thanks for your question. If you need a new tune now after the Green Speed update, any CEL's that may be caused by parts that are removed will be present. Any tune created after the update will not be able to turn off any CEL's. As far as whether or not it will put your car into limp mode, we just don't have good information there yet. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Definitely do that, and make sure that you check out the RESC Suit that is fighting to get clear definitions for how the Clean Air Act applies to modern cars. www.gofundme.com/f/protect-your-right-to-convert-cars-into-racecars Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. Yes, a tune can be modified, but because the access of the software has changed, going forward all new or modified tunes will not be able to turn off any CEL's for emissions devices, etc. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
So if the CEL was turned off on the original tune. With they all be turned back on? I'm on a flex fuel tune and bought 1300 cc Injectors with a 450lph pump. Witl.my tuner still be able to tune for more power with out a CEL. Those are the only changes.
@@jamescarrethers6330 Wondering this as well. I am running a catless downpipe and the CEL is already disabled on the tune I have. I need a revision of the tune soon, will the CEL go back on if a tuner makes changes to the existing tune?
if the parent company of cobb & ecutek is the same, and delicious tunings flexfuel kit/map is through ecutek, does that mean that the same ecutek tuning parameters will work for the cobb flexfuel kit too?
Thanks for the question. They are different companies and have different architecture. ECUtek will work with Flex Fuel currently, but a cobb tune, etc would not work on ECUtek. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Thanks for your question. Unless you have the Access Tuner Software (ie. you are a Cobb Pro Tuner), the update will not affect you directly. The only change is in the access that Pro Tuners have to create new maps. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you for the reply sir. I do utilize Access Tuner, as I tune my own personal car. I should be safe from the update as long as I only connect the accessport to the laptop when there is no internet connection i.e. doing a road tune?
Does a P0420 code have anything to do with all of this? I got a tune early March an my tuner said Grimmspeed downpipes have the O2 sensor in the wrong spot an that will through this code.
The V1 Grimmspeed jpipe for the FA20 DIT engine (15+ WRX) indeed has both of the O2 sensors mounted in the bend and then the catalytic converter is way back at the tail end of the jpipe. There is no way for this to work correctly as far as emissions standards go because the fundamental operation is for the upstream (pre-cat) O2 sensor and downstream (post-cat) O2 sensor readings to be compared to each other with the catalytic converter being in the middle to determine if the catalyst is cleaning up the exhaust appropriately. So anyone with a Grimmspeed v1 FA20 DIT jpipe has had DTC's for the P0420 (catalyst efficiency threshold) disabled. This is why Grimmspeed just (three'ish weeks ago) released their v2 jpipe with a GESi catalytic converter and the O2 sensors bungs in the correct locations, one before cat and one after. They billed it as an upgrade which is TBD with independent testing but there's no doubt in my mind they were aware of the recent changes coming, the timing was just too perfect. To be clear, no Grimmspeed v1 jpipe sold ever was emissions compliant by design regardless of if the catalyst was effective enough or not to pass a sniff test.
@@brandontucker530 Same thing applies. If the O2 sensors aren't before and after the catalyst it's no different. Fundamentally the emissions system cannot operate correctly if the sensors both come before or both after the catalyst. In most cases a P0420 code means you have an O2 sensor that's not measuring voltage within spec(meaning an issue with the O2 sensor). Less often the actual catalyst is faulty. But with both sensors before the cat or conversely after the cat, the only way to avoid a P0420 is for the tuner to turn off the DTC that would trigger the P0420 CEL.
What about the up pipe? my 06 Spec.B has the EGT sensor for one, but I bought it last year with a OEM catless up pipe and I'm trying to retune later this year. Would a general catless up pipe still be fine if I did the resistor mod to at least get around the CEL? The CEL doesn't bother me so much for now, as long as I can still be retuned.
When you talk about stand alone management, are you specifically referencing CA or similar registration? If I live in a state with no emissions regulations, or no regulations for older cars, would that be a viable option? What can a COBB tuner do in a state like Washington, or for an out of state car?
Thanks for the question. At this point, all Cobb Pro Tuners have the same access to the tuning software, regardless of their location. For stand alone ECU's I would still say that they really should only be used for race application. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning I noticed COBB has a new style of downpipe for the ej with a "GESi" 300 cell cat. It supposedly doesn't interfere with the federal anti-tampering regulations, but CARB certification is still pending tests. I suppose pipes like this are going to start coming out. Side note, it's about three hundred dollars more than the old one. Still good news, though.
I see a lot of people putting in resisters etc to bypass the sensors.... Funny thing is, the tuning community is so small.... it makes no damn difference
It's basically the apple store version of ECU reflash... Nice computer interface, decent customer support, and only features they offer. Locked code, totally fine as long as you're doing what cobb wants.
So im in colorado with you guys. At first i wanted to go rotated with a big turbo but i thought i saw that speed density wasnt supported. I already have a high flow catalytic converter that passes emissions. So theoretically i can still go rotated and speed density as long as the high flow cat can still filter all the gasses sufficiently
Thanks for your question Cody. That is a tricky one specifically here in Colorado. Honestly, if you haven't gone rotated yet, I think I would recommend looking into the new catalytic converter standards here before making that choice. In short, you may want the long term ability to put on a stock down-pipe, and you would lose that with a rotated setup. If you are building a race car it is an easier choice, but if you are wanting to build a street car here, there are more things to consider than tuning actually. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@flatironstuning does CO aircare detect if you have a map flashed on your ecu? Lets say all emissions components are present and functioning but you have a tuned map beyond stock power (w/ injectors, intake, intercooler etc)
Thanks a ton for the detailed breakdown and explanations. Great video. One common part I didn't hear mentioned is say the popular Grimmspeed 3 port EBCS. I assume this would fall into the category of "in and of itself it won't cause a CEL, but the car likely won't run correctly unless tuned for it". In other words tuning for it did not and still does not require turning off DTC's? Something else I'd like to see more info on is states adopting stricter emissions standards like CARB and will cars that are already tuned the way one would prior to the greensoeed update, still pass emissions, or will there be a point (relatively soon not ever) where even those of us with the "OG" tunes will have their software with DTC's turned off "detected" and thus fail suddenly even though there's no CEL.
I can chime in a bit regarding CARB stuff. So the check engine light being off on the dash doesn't always mean it isn't actually there, you just aren't seeing it. Think of it as a digital piece of black tape you'd out over the light. Out of sight out of mind. You'd still fail a test because of the codes still being present in the ECU. Regarding potential other testing, California smog now basically checks the tune file you're running against the OEM/CARB EO database of tunes. If you have anything other than an OEM map or a CARB legal map, you will fail. Even though you theoretically have all emissions components on.
Thanks for the question James. Tuning to set up a boost control solenoid should be unchanged. There are definitely a lot of changes that are coming to many states. It is something that we may look at some time in the future, but it may be awhile before we have a clear enough picture of what is going in in those other states to talk about it. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@mresab1997 The latest information I’m aware of from Section 177 of California Clean Car Standard… Already are in effect: CA,NJ,CT,WA,VT,NY,ME,RI,MA,OR,PA,Wash DC,MD,DE. CO will be effective in 2022. MN will be effective in 2025
Thanks for the question. The fundamental issue with the current Flex Fuel setup is that it piggy-back's on existing signal wires for an emissions device (TGV's). In short, that circuit has to be left alone to do what it was designed to do. Cobb is working on a Flex Fuel solution that would potential be CARB approved which would have its own circuit. Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
its because the cobb flex fuel kit uses a signal from the tgv or secondary o2 sensor to power up the kit and when that happens the tuner disables the signal
The EPA enforcement is coming no matter what. At this rate there will be a day that you will only be able to race motorsports chassis and engine that never had a vin # or a stock car. Nothing else.
So if we’re able to run speed density still how would that affect running big turbos/rotated setups? Are we going to be able to run more boost or are we going to be limited?
Thanks for your question. If you to run out of room with the MAF max range, then switching to speed-density should solve that. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Selling my accessport AND subaru next month. Defeats the purpose of buying the car in the first place. I live in a county without emissions testing and should have the option for this upgrade. Spent countless hours getting into accesstuner. Im done
Thanks for your question. I'd say it is unlikely that they will go away. Lots of things are changing right now that is for sure. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
with regard to the point about putting standalone ecu's or other motorsports parts in street cars, you're totally off base they don't need an excuse, they'll just ban them, and they already have (for example you can't get ANY non CARB legal parts shipped to CA, motorsports usage or not) stop assuming the regulators have honest intentions. they do not
People are acting like not being able to remove catalytic converters is the end of Motorsports in general........... Honestly I'm totally fine with it! Too many Street ricers remove their converters for absolutely no legitimate reason other than to remove their converter and it's harming the environment, point blank. Japanese Motorsports has been running catalytic converters for the better part of a decade now and they're still killing it 🤷♂️
As long as we look at this as a problem that we can solve, and not as something that is impossible to work with, we will find a way. Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Yup. OTS stuff online basically. One thing they didn’t mention is Cobb’s post said they can’t change the overboosting CEL limit. Also you can’t change the MAF upper limit. If you car thinks it is overboosting, it will go into limp mode 100% as well.
Subarus are a waste of a build when you get into serious HP. The engine is trying to pull itself apart due to being a Flat design and please don't start with Well Porsche Is Also A Boxer, yea well that's a Porsche....
This is informative for everyone with a tuned car actually. Thank you!!!
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
My 2016 WRX is tuned to stage 1.75 (everything but no downpipe). TGV and EGR delete. I am unable to pass smog here in CA. as my O2 sensor shows "not ready"...I'm taking my car back to the tuner next week to address this. I assume they will need to correct these deletes...and retune...?? Is this a big job of somewhat simple?
Yea driving with a check engine light is not a problem until something does break and you keep driving with that light on till it pops.
Check engine light on a ford should be like wanted stars in gta. You get a couple of check engine lights it is ok just a little heat, but when you get 5 lights, that sucker is wasted!
Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment. It can definitely be done, but you have to know what you are getting into.
Stay Tuned!
Been modifying my car for years, now I am driving a time capsule. No emissions where I live. The fact it affects something on my car that has long been removed is bs.
This is similar to what I also heard. Thanks for the info as always!
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
So old maps like 2+ will still work?
Thanks for your question. Yes, if you have those loaded on your AP, they will still work. They are just not available from Cobb any longer, and they are not coming on the newer AP's.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Can we still turn TGV delete code off if we are using open source tuning like ecuFlash? I'm assuming this is only blocked on Access Tuner, is that correct?
That is possible. I'd recommend checking with your tuner. At this point Cobb is the first system that has made this change, and ECUtek is going to be following suite shortly.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
I'm alittle late to the party but you mentioned GESI cats as a potential option. Is there a level of GESI cat that works better than others say a 300 cel vs 400 cel?
That is a good question and I don't know the answer honestly. I believe that GESI has made some changes, and I'm not sure what the differences are at this point.
That may be a question best answered by the manufacturer.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
What we need is someone to tune their STI before the update. With their tgv deletes and the other things on the new list of Cobbs no nos. Then once the new update droop for them to retune it to see what is really affected.
Please help! New WRX owner just becoming aware of all this stuff...got a couple questions
Bought the car like 5 months ago in CT...it has a custom downpipe, only one cat. No CEL. No Accessport. Would I pass emissions or no?
Haven't seen any manufacturer markings on the downpipe that I could see so far. I'm actually not even sure that the car was tuned for the downpipe. Is it possible that the car was tuned, then accessport removed, but tune stayed on the car?
If that's not possible, doesn't that mean my engine is probably running lean due to not being tuned for the downpipe?
Thanks for your question. As far as passing emissions, that really depends on where you live, and what the emissions requirements are for your area. I would recommend getting on their website to see what they test for, and go from there.
As for the Accessport, yes, you can flash a map onto an ECU, and then unplug the AP and the map will remain on the car. If you don't have a way to contact the previous owner to find out what they did, you may need to have a Tuner take a look at your car to see what they can find, or you could simply get a new Accessport if you would like to have that available.
Considering that you don't have any CEL with the exhaust, I would say that there is a reasonable likelihood that there is a tune on your ECU, and with the recent changes, that would not be something that can be duplicated or re-done.
I hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you so much! I haven't seen you guys talk too much (unless I missed it) about the option of open source tuning, for example, if someone is running an aftermarket downpipe with a high flow cat that *can* pass emissions. Is this a realistic scenario or what do you think about this option? I'm also wondering if it's legal for a dealership to sell a car that won't pass emissions because I had no idea how intricate this situation was when I bought the car.
I am trying to find a trustworthy tuner in this area. Unfortunately the most reputable one turned out to be shady...they played a big part in flipping this car that I bought which had a lot of rushed unprofessional work done to it. I get they were just making a cash grab but I can't see trusting them again no matter how high their rep is.
Des this mean that if I am currently getting etuned and have no CELs that I can update the firmware on the accessport and not be affected. I havent updated my firmware yet because Im afraid of screwing up the tune since I have a flex fuel sensor
Thanks for your question. This change effects the Cobb Pro Tuners, and the access that they have to build maps. It doesn't affect anyone that is using an Access Port directly. Though if they are currently tuning your car for Flex Fuel, I'm not quite sure how they are doing that.
I might say to have a conversation with Cobb directly if you need any further clarification about updating your AccessPort.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Have I got this correct for street use;
-On a NA engine you can tune until you reach the OE MAF upper limit; altering fueling as needed with OE down pipe.
- On a turbo engine you can tune until you reach exhaust back pressure limit; altering fueling as needed with OE down pipe.
-Both engine types must retain all functional OE emission equipment.
Thanks in advance for setting me straight.
Thanks for your question Rick. I would say that both cases are similar. Yes, you can tune the ECU basically normally as long as all of the emissions equipment is present up to the point where you encounter a limit of either the stock configuration, or a sensor parameter that you can't change (lime the MAF upper limit).
I hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
Any info on whether or not an OEM tgv setup modified to remove the butterfly plates would trigger any issues if the motor and electrical harness plugs are all still functional?
What I don't get is why can't they come up with a catted 3" j-pipe? wouldn't that satisfy the emission conditions?
Thanks for the question, and that is definitely a complicated one. I don't know enough to give a detailed answer, but it sounds like the issue is that one can't be sent in for testing. I hope that some day an alternative will come about, but we will just have to see how everything works out.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
what about clark turners "new style" delicious tuning flex fuel sensor? He states that he is tuning for flex fuel using the greenspeed updated software.
Delicious Tuning is using ECUtech, and they haven't made the same changes yet, but they have announced that they are coming around the end of the year. So it is a current solution, but it will not be available for much longer.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
The inability of scaling of the maf in the case of the high hp application would be rectified with speed density no? That is/was my understanding.
Thanks for the comment. Yes, that would most likely be the case. And as we discussed in our MAF vs. Speed Density podcast, for high hp applications there are definitely benefits of making that conversion as well.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
From what I can tell they removed the ability to run speed density on maf based cars.
@@andrewrlambert GTR for sure were affected. Subies were not when it comes to speed density
@@andrewrlambert No, it looks like you can still make the conversion with the AP.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@rawleramkissoon4462 that’s probably what I was reading
So if I was to install a downpipe on my 15+ sti and get a tune. The CEL will pop up but I should still be able to drive it with it on without any problem? and will the CEL go away if I was to install the stock downpipe back on?
So I haven't gotten a real straight answer on this, if my car is currently tuned with egr and tgv deletes and I want to update my tune with new parts will the CEL come on? I'm not worried about passing emissions, but I'm worried that it will put my car in limp mode. Currently my car runs great
Thanks for your question. If you need a new tune now after the Green Speed update, any CEL's that may be caused by parts that are removed will be present. Any tune created after the update will not be able to turn off any CEL's.
As far as whether or not it will put your car into limp mode, we just don't have good information there yet.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Email your representative about the rpm act! Don’t let this administration take away what we love!
Definitely do that, and make sure that you check out the RESC Suit that is fighting to get clear definitions for how the Clean Air Act applies to modern cars.
www.gofundme.com/f/protect-your-right-to-convert-cars-into-racecars
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Can existing tune can still be modified on the pro-tuner software?
Thanks for your question. Yes, a tune can be modified, but because the access of the software has changed, going forward all new or modified tunes will not be able to turn off any CEL's for emissions devices, etc.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
So if the CEL was turned off on the original tune. With they all be turned back on? I'm on a flex fuel tune and bought 1300 cc Injectors with a 450lph pump. Witl.my tuner still be able to tune for more power with out a CEL. Those are the only changes.
@@jamescarrethers6330 Wondering this as well. I am running a catless downpipe and the CEL is already disabled on the tune I have. I need a revision of the tune soon, will the CEL go back on if a tuner makes changes to the existing tune?
if the parent company of cobb & ecutek is the same, and delicious tunings flexfuel kit/map is through ecutek, does that mean that the same ecutek tuning parameters will work for the cobb flexfuel kit too?
Thanks for the question. They are different companies and have different architecture. ECUtek will work with Flex Fuel currently, but a cobb tune, etc would not work on ECUtek.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning but will an ecutek tune work with the cobb ff kit & accessport?
What if I only plug my accessport into my laptop while its not connected to the internet? Can I avoid this update?
Thanks for your question. Unless you have the Access Tuner Software (ie. you are a Cobb Pro Tuner), the update will not affect you directly. The only change is in the access that Pro Tuners have to create new maps.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning Thank you for the reply sir. I do utilize Access Tuner, as I tune my own personal car. I should be safe from the update as long as I only connect the accessport to the laptop when there is no internet connection i.e. doing a road tune?
Does a P0420 code have anything to do with all of this? I got a tune early March an my tuner said Grimmspeed downpipes have the O2 sensor in the wrong spot an that will through this code.
The V1 Grimmspeed jpipe for the FA20 DIT engine (15+ WRX) indeed has both of the O2 sensors mounted in the bend and then the catalytic converter is way back at the tail end of the jpipe. There is no way for this to work correctly as far as emissions standards go because the fundamental operation is for the upstream (pre-cat) O2 sensor and downstream (post-cat) O2 sensor readings to be compared to each other with the catalytic converter being in the middle to determine if the catalyst is cleaning up the exhaust appropriately. So anyone with a Grimmspeed v1 FA20 DIT jpipe has had DTC's for the P0420 (catalyst efficiency threshold) disabled. This is why Grimmspeed just (three'ish weeks ago) released their v2 jpipe with a GESi catalytic converter and the O2 sensors bungs in the correct locations, one before cat and one after. They billed it as an upgrade which is TBD with independent testing but there's no doubt in my mind they were aware of the recent changes coming, the timing was just too perfect. To be clear, no Grimmspeed v1 jpipe sold ever was emissions compliant by design regardless of if the catalyst was effective enough or not to pass a sniff test.
@@jamesg8246 Thanks man, but I have a 2017 sti.
@@brandontucker530 Same thing applies. If the O2 sensors aren't before and after the catalyst it's no different. Fundamentally the emissions system cannot operate correctly if the sensors both come before or both after the catalyst. In most cases a P0420 code means you have an O2 sensor that's not measuring voltage within spec(meaning an issue with the O2 sensor). Less often the actual catalyst is faulty. But with both sensors before the cat or conversely after the cat, the only way to avoid a P0420 is for the tuner to turn off the DTC that would trigger the P0420 CEL.
@@jamesg8246 can I relocate the O2 sensor to the back of the cat to its proper spot?
@@brandontucker530 I can't say on that. People drill and mount widebands into pipes all the time but I'm sure there's a correct way to do it.
What about the up pipe? my 06 Spec.B has the EGT sensor for one, but I bought it last year with a OEM catless up pipe and I'm trying to retune later this year. Would a general catless up pipe still be fine if I did the resistor mod to at least get around the CEL? The CEL doesn't bother me so much for now, as long as I can still be retuned.
When you talk about stand alone management, are you specifically referencing CA or similar registration? If I live in a state with no emissions regulations, or no regulations for older cars, would that be a viable option? What can a COBB tuner do in a state like Washington, or for an out of state car?
Thanks for the question. At this point, all Cobb Pro Tuners have the same access to the tuning software, regardless of their location.
For stand alone ECU's I would still say that they really should only be used for race application.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@FlatironsTuning I noticed COBB has a new style of downpipe for the ej with a "GESi" 300 cell cat. It supposedly doesn't interfere with the federal anti-tampering regulations, but CARB certification is still pending tests. I suppose pipes like this are going to start coming out. Side note, it's about three hundred dollars more than the old one. Still good news, though.
I see a lot of people putting in resisters etc to bypass the sensors....
Funny thing is, the tuning community is so small.... it makes no damn difference
If I go open source I can still use the access port to data log and as an expensive digital gauge correct?
Nope
@@rustyshackleford81 yeah, you gotta marry it with a map before it lets you do anything. Overpriced junk
It's basically the apple store version of ECU reflash... Nice computer interface, decent customer support, and only features they offer. Locked code, totally fine as long as you're doing what cobb wants.
So im in colorado with you guys. At first i wanted to go rotated with a big turbo but i thought i saw that speed density wasnt supported. I already have a high flow catalytic converter that passes emissions. So theoretically i can still go rotated and speed density as long as the high flow cat can still filter all the gasses sufficiently
Thanks for your question Cody. That is a tricky one specifically here in Colorado. Honestly, if you haven't gone rotated yet, I think I would recommend looking into the new catalytic converter standards here before making that choice. In short, you may want the long term ability to put on a stock down-pipe, and you would lose that with a rotated setup.
If you are building a race car it is an easier choice, but if you are wanting to build a street car here, there are more things to consider than tuning actually.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
@flatironstuning does CO aircare detect if you have a map flashed on your ecu? Lets say all emissions components are present and functioning but you have a tuned map beyond stock power (w/ injectors, intake, intercooler etc)
@@alexudolkin2146 I believe so, at least in cal you can’t pass with a tune
Is there a top feed tgv that will work on 05 lgt? Have motor and sensor on my side feeds.
02-07 wrx top feed works. (3 pin tgv pos sensor)
Thanks a ton for the detailed breakdown and explanations. Great video. One common part I didn't hear mentioned is say the popular Grimmspeed 3 port EBCS. I assume this would fall into the category of "in and of itself it won't cause a CEL, but the car likely won't run correctly unless tuned for it". In other words tuning for it did not and still does not require turning off DTC's?
Something else I'd like to see more info on is states adopting stricter emissions standards like CARB and will cars that are already tuned the way one would prior to the greensoeed update, still pass emissions, or will there be a point (relatively soon not ever) where even those of us with the "OG" tunes will have their software with DTC's turned off "detected" and thus fail suddenly even though there's no CEL.
I can chime in a bit regarding CARB stuff. So the check engine light being off on the dash doesn't always mean it isn't actually there, you just aren't seeing it. Think of it as a digital piece of black tape you'd out over the light. Out of sight out of mind. You'd still fail a test because of the codes still being present in the ECU. Regarding potential other testing, California smog now basically checks the tune file you're running against the OEM/CARB EO database of tunes. If you have anything other than an OEM map or a CARB legal map, you will fail. Even though you theoretically have all emissions components on.
@@chrisromero2088 In addition, I believe there are 16 other States that do/will follow the latest California Low Emission Vehicle standard by 2025
Thanks for the question James. Tuning to set up a boost control solenoid should be unchanged.
There are definitely a lot of changes that are coming to many states. It is something that we may look at some time in the future, but it may be awhile before we have a clear enough picture of what is going in in those other states to talk about it.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
@@rickw.9298 which states?
@@mresab1997 The latest information I’m aware of from Section 177 of California Clean Car Standard…
Already are in effect:
CA,NJ,CT,WA,VT,NY,ME,RI,MA,OR,PA,Wash DC,MD,DE.
CO will be effective in 2022.
MN will be effective in 2025
I don't understand why flex fuel is an issue.
Thanks for the question. The fundamental issue with the current Flex Fuel setup is that it piggy-back's on existing signal wires for an emissions device (TGV's). In short, that circuit has to be left alone to do what it was designed to do. Cobb is working on a Flex Fuel solution that would potential be CARB approved which would have its own circuit.
Hope that helps and Stay Tuned!
its because the cobb flex fuel kit uses a signal from the tgv or secondary o2 sensor to power up the kit and when that happens the tuner disables the signal
The EPA enforcement is coming no matter what. At this rate there will be a day that you will only be able to race motorsports chassis and engine that never had a vin # or a stock car. Nothing else.
FJB
I’ve got a roll of electric tape if anyone needs some for their check engine lights.
Nice! Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
It still be cut the law still has not past and the government is still pushing
Wonder if Tactrix is selling a lot of cables in the wake of these updates. Thank the divine for open source software.
Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching. Stay Tuned!
How are people still not understand these changing anything that changing all you can’t do is add crazy ass power dats all
So if we’re able to run speed density still how would that affect running big turbos/rotated setups? Are we going to be able to run more boost or are we going to be limited?
Thanks for your question. If you to run out of room with the MAF max range, then switching to speed-density should solve that.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
Typical government bull$hit, I was thinking about getting a access port, now…not so much
Selling my accessport AND subaru next month. Defeats the purpose of buying the car in the first place. I live in a county without emissions testing and should have the option for this upgrade. Spent countless hours getting into accesstuner. Im done
can see a lot of electric tape over cels soon lol
Are exhaust manifolds in danger of going extinct?
Thanks for your question. I'd say it is unlikely that they will go away. Lots of things are changing right now that is for sure.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
with regard to the point about putting standalone ecu's or other motorsports parts in street cars, you're totally off base
they don't need an excuse, they'll just ban them, and they already have (for example you can't get ANY non CARB legal parts shipped to CA, motorsports usage or not)
stop assuming the regulators have honest intentions. they do not
Is that affected FL since there's no emissions compliance?.
Thanks for your question. These Cobb changes effect all Pro Tuners, regardless of the State that they are in.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
😑
Come to FL CEL=no problem
People are acting like not being able to remove catalytic converters is the end of Motorsports in general........... Honestly I'm totally fine with it! Too many Street ricers remove their converters for absolutely no legitimate reason other than to remove their converter and it's harming the environment, point blank.
Japanese Motorsports has been running catalytic converters for the better part of a decade now and they're still killing it 🤷♂️
As long as we look at this as a problem that we can solve, and not as something that is impossible to work with, we will find a way.
Thanks for watching and Stay Tuned!
So anything past and including a downpipe is too much for Cobb. So it's a piece of junk.
Yup.
OTS stuff online basically.
One thing they didn’t mention is Cobb’s post said they can’t change the overboosting CEL limit. Also you can’t change the MAF upper limit.
If you car thinks it is overboosting, it will go into limp mode 100% as well.
Dudes just single-handedly fucked up a whole car subculture who want to buy a 19 sti lol sucks
Subarus are a waste of a build when you get into serious HP. The engine is trying to pull itself apart due to being a Flat design and please don't start with Well Porsche Is Also A Boxer, yea well that's a Porsche....
You own a subaru? Why comment if you don't? Nothing else to hate on today?